₦airaland Forum

LeonStark:
There is no justifying immoral behavior, no matter the motivation for it or the outcome of it. While that may be the only course of action he can necessarily take(which it was not) that does not mean it was justified.

Stannis is dutyful not ambitious alright.

What other action could he have taken?

LeonStark:
The ends/means dilemma is a popular scenario in ethics discussions. Usually, the question goes something like this: “If you could save the world by killing someone, would you do it?” If the answer is “yes,” then a morally right outcome justifies the use of immoral means to achieve it. But there are three different things to consider in such a situation: the morality of the action, the morality of the outcome, and the morality of the person performing the action. In this situation, the action (murder) is clearly immoral and so is the murderer. But saving the world is a good and moral outcome. Or is it? What kind of world is being saved if murderers are allowed to decide when and if murder is justified and then go free? Or does the murderer face punishment for his crime in the world that he has saved? And would the world that was saved be justified in taking the life of the one who had just saved them?And by the way Stannis is not ambitious.

Spoken like a philosopher.

It is understandable, not justifiable.

what is justified is subjective so there is no definite answer to the question..."is killing your only daughter in other to take your rightful place on the throne and make the world a better place justified?". All the answers are based on opinion and a lot will disagree and agree.

LeonStark:
Its not. The reasons leading up to it is make no sense. You cant justify it.

Look at it from his point of view and you will understand. Not agree o but understand.

ApexTitan:
Stunt doubles for episode 9

Holy sh*t. I saw the pix before reading your text. I thought they were the real people.

kay9:
Protagonist? "Forced to support"? And I thought you were a true GoT fan.



A show has no protagonists.

A man supports no one.

A man may live, or a man may die. It is all the same to the many-faced god.

But if a man can, he may choose to say to the god of death: Not today.

This is known. This only is known.

IT IS KNOWN

kay9:
You are missing it entirely.

Stannis did not agree to burn his beloved daughter because of "ambition"; he did it because he believed he was Azor Ahai - no thanks to the Red Witch, of course) - and a true Azor Ahai is bound to make harsh decisions for the sake of humanity. You and I know that he really isn't the true Azor Ahai, but Stannis doesn't know that! He is convinced that this is what he has to do to stay alive, win Winterfell, defeat his enemies and remain strong enough to fight the White Walkers and save humanity. I think it is actually the recent portrayal of "Stannis that loves his daughter" that made it worse for y'all - the Stannis that we geeks know has little love in his heart; he didn't hold Dragonstone out of stubbornness or whatever, he did it because Robert, his brother and liege lord, commanded him to. That man LOVES his duty! Same reason he agreed to kill his own brother - Renly committed treason by trying to usurp him, and the penalty for treason is death.

Remember that the first Azor Ahai actually killed his own beloved wife before he could forge the sword that defeated the cold darkness. Now imagine you were Stannis and the burden of being the new Azor Ahai fell to you - erroneous as the thinking is, but bear with me - and you are already A MAN WHO WILL DO HIS DUTY, NO MATTER HOW DISTASTEFUL.... See?

Couldnt have said it better bro. I have been replying the same thing to people over and over again, no one seems to understand. You seem to understand the show very well.

Please who is this azhor azai? (Only tell me if it has been mentioned on the show) I have never heard it on the show.

AgapeCharis:
[color=#27408B]What's it with this game of thrones sef. [/color]

YOU KNOW NOTHING

LeonStark:
The paedophile is Jorah.He's in love with Dany, but way older than her. Also Meryn Trant.

Jorah is not a paedophile (depends on how old Dany is in the show). The show doesnt really lay emphasis on age but i think dany is Over 18 since robert rebellion took place over 20 yrs ago (i think). he is only a paedophile if she is a small child (mostly pre-teen).

Also, you have to have sex first before you can be considered a paedo in its actual sense. Ser Jorah is not a paedo, Ser Meryn f*ucking Trant is.

LeonStark:
Your words contadict themselves. Im saying it makes no sense for Stannis to do so, since he doesnt burn people who did nothing wrong. Its a bad potrayal of Stannis.

He has been burning people since forever if they didnt burn their idols or kneel before the lord of light. What r u talking about?

Ogatitus:
No doubt many folks will not agree with you, but you are spot on: the directors lost it on Stannis.

This twist in the character of Stannis is uncalled for. He has now lost his protagonistic ambience in the hearts of the audience.

Regardless of what the plot is, this "radicalisation" of Stannis is unnecessary. We are now indirectly forced to support the "sick" Ramsay Bolton in the forthcoming battle of Winterfell.

When will you people realise that you have no right to say what is necessary and "uncalled for". You have no creative power over the show and those who do have decided it is necessary and called for.

Everyone has done something "out of character" every once in a while, even in movies. IT IS HUMAN NATURE.

he clearly values his duty over his daughter's life. Is there any point in the show that he showed otherwise? before this episode, we only knew he loved his daughter and valued his duty,we didnt know which came first. But now we know he values his duty more than he loved his daughter.

UjSizzle:
No. They died, but didn't kill their children themselves.

Besides I'm more worried about the way Stannis is portrayed and less about Shireen's death (loved her though but I'm already used to seeing my fav characters die). This is not the Stannis we know, so now I understand why TheNed said a character would do something so unlike himself.
The writers are mad. Period.

Have you never done something unlike yourself? na today?

ClaytonSuggs:
He gelds rapist and thiefs, sometimes burns them but he doesnt burn them if they did nothing wrong. Stannis can be stubborn, dutiful, sometimes even without mercy, but he still is moral.

Dude, he has been burning infidels since forever.

ClaytonSuggs:
Oh please.This is the North. And its food they need most. No Northern lord will spare them food when Winter is almost near.

How will they get the food if the snow doesnt stop? even before their supplies ran out, they were dreading the snow and people were dying and jumping ship.

ClaytonSuggs:
Guy Stannis craves no power. Do you even know the first thing about Stannis ? Stannis isnt ambitious he is dutiful. But with the burning of Shireen the show made him ambitious who would do anything to be king.

Dude, That was the only way to fulfil his duty. The show didnt make him ambitious, it showed the great lenghts he will go to fulfil his duty.

Oautce:
We all saw Stannis's decision coming, probably just didnt think he'd go through with it but i'm curious...did anyone guess ser jorah's spear was aimed at a son of harpy?

I didnt. I thought he wanted to kill Dany. I was shocked and had to rewind before i saw the reaction on his face (when he noticed the assasin). He has saved her life twice, she will pull him out of the friendzone....[size=4pt]Hopefully[/size]

UjSizzle:
Yea yea the episode was all right, BUT

This is utter bullshiiit. Why in the world will the writers make Stannis kill Shireen his heir? Stannis who apparently ate glue from book bindings rather than surrender Dragonstone until Davos came with his onions. Stannis the unbeliever. Stannis! What bloody manner of character development is this? It makes zero sense. Seriously, what's a few weeks in winter to Stannis a man of war that he should surrender his child to that witch of a woman?

Seriously, This "out of character" thingy is the one thats BS.

-At dragonstone, their only problem was food. But here, its The weather. NO amount of onions can make the weather go away. his men are dying of cold, a lot are jumping ship and they have no food. They have to take winterfell now! and trning back is not an option.

-You really think Stannis is still an unbeliever after burning hundreds of people for not believing in the lord of light?

-A few weeks in winter? Have you not been paying attention to the whole "winter is coming" gist? No one knows how long winter will last.

-Stannis is a loving father and a man who will do whatever it takes to take/protect what is rightfully his. That is his character. Now, when 2 of those character traits are on opposite ends, it all comes down to which he wants most and obviously from what happened this episode, he wants the throne most.

-Even if what he did was "out of character", have you never done something "out of character" before? People do things "out of character" all the especially when push comes to shove.

Methinks the director of this show is cray cray and I hate the emerging pattern. Something bad-- with a nasty shock value has to happen that ends up with a woman suffering. Nah, I don't like that.
They needn't have bothered with all the scenes involving Stannis affirming his love for Shireen only to come kill her for nothing!
Unless emotionally manipulating the audience is the new IT.

In the show, its a man's world and women surfer it. Thats how the universe in the show works and its not uncommon for characters on tv to show emotional affection for characters they are about to kill etc.

Btw. Fvck Stannis. I hope he dies in Winterfell!
....In the hands of Ramsay Bolton the flayer.

Nah, i think the witch will come through. There will be some real magic next episode.

luxanne:
Stannis is officially the bastard!

Poor shireen, such innocent, sweet soul. I literally shed tears for her, what a painful way to die

And If I were standing by her mother, I would have dashed her two thunderous slap, one to serve as her wake-up call and the other as a reminder never to betray her child
Lil wonder stannis sent ser davos to castle black for supplies, he knew davos would rather die than watch them kill the princess.

Melisandre, Melisandre, all these people you've been sacrificing, your time will surely come and I pray it be by stannis hands for not succeeding in the battle for the iron throne despite all these sacrifices you've made you witch!

That said, thank God sam wasn't poisoned afterall

So when ramsey asked for a hundred men, this was what he had in mind? Bleh, I was expecting a battle between him and stannis after his arrogant speech.

Jeez, I was scared for jon right there, I saw the scary look on his face as well. He didn't know what to expect despite being lord commander...the welcome he received by allister and the rest of the brothers, was like they were all ready for a fight, I held my breath and heaved a sigh of relief when he said, 'open the gate'...I wished allister would bring down his pride and be allies with jon, they'd be perfect working as a team.

Arya, this girl I like! What exactly does she even say while she hawks...Oysters what and what? I like the way she says it Lool
But wait a min, that bottle given to her by the faceless god, was she meant to poison the thin man to death? But for what reason Hmm

I think now that she knows trant loves lil girl with that mouth of his like 'too old', she's gonna put herself in that situation in order to have him killed. Be careful Arya.

And then Dany, I enjoyed watching daario argue with that mereen dude (don't even know his name), glad he's dead - next time he should learn how to fight while learning eloquence, loool, now no competition for daario anymore, they (him and dany) should both hit it and give us a targ heir already.

Nice scene with the dragon as well - now that name, mother of dragons is finally befitting, thot the dragon was gonna be speared to death too - these sons of harpy got guts, I give them that... and good one for ser jorah...tyrion, I was looking for him when the battle started, thot he was hiding his lil self, lool

Ep9 not bad really.

An soo glad I was wrong about sam.

I thought Alliser was not going to let them in.

Alliser is a good man seriously. People don't see that. I fell in love with him after that battle at Castle black.

Ser friend zone crossed d seven seas to be with Dany and when he finally achieved that, she jumped on a dragon and flew away from him.

"Oysters, clams and cockles"

Ramsey asked for 20 men not hundred

ClaytonSuggs:
The rest of the seven kingdoms don't. And Stannis isnt a fanatic about religion.

He isn't? Tell that to all the men he has burned for not believing.

ClaytonSuggs:
Will the food fall out of the sky ? The supplies ? That's not the solution.

You think it can't? They bring the dead back to life.... they kill kings with shadows... but you think it's impossible for food to fall from the sky?

ClaytonSuggs:
Lol, the unsullied are a joke. Best infantry in the world my a*s.

Sword and spears are for fighting wars. when they are in formation, they do better. But are crap 1 on 1. When they formed a formation around Dany, they actually fought better. But the sons of Harpy are like an army too.

ClaytonSuggs:
How is this any worse than the siege of Storm's End. Stannis and his men were down to eating boots. Boots. Until Davos rescued them.

I just read your post again.

How is being stranded in the middle of nowhere by the weather and lack of supplies not worse than anything? The siege was man made, the weather is nature (you can't do anything about it).

They are stranded with less fewer men, lack of supplies and the weather. So, yeah. This situation is worse.

Bamz:
The Red God would not forsake it's servant, poster. A girl lurks in search of a greater purpose, a longing desire to right a wrong.
That is enough. Valar morghulis.

Spoken like a true faceless man.

ClaytonSuggs:
It is. Stannis lays claim to the throne not because he is ambitious and will do anything to be king, but because it's his duty to robert and to the realm. Part of that duty is to provide an heir to the Baratheon line on the throne. Now why would he burn his only child and heir. Mel's magic works alright, but Stannis, no. The case with Renly was different

What are you saying? You are talking as if Stannis is impotent. He will make another heir.

ClaytonSuggs:
Unless Selyse dies, he can't, only the Targs practiced polygamy.

Lol. Is there any law against polygamy in Westeros? Am sure Stannis will find a way. He is a "wise" man and has obviously thought this through.

ClaytonSuggs:
How is this any worse than the siege of Storm's End. Stannis and his men were down to eating boots. Boots. Until Davos rescued them.

Then, there was no Melisandre and this time, Davos can't do anything. Their problem then was food. This time, it's food and the weather. Davos doesn't have that kind of power, Melisandre claims she has a way out. We just have to see if she is right.

ClaytonSuggs:
Only the royal house practices that for females . And females CAN inherit, not only in Dorne, but tbhe other kingdoms if there's no male heir apparent. There are lots of them. As for females cant inherit the throne, its true, but the line can be furthered down from her, and she may jave a male child, who would then be the heir. Tywin would die without a capable heir because Cersei isnt, he disowned Jaime and he won't let Tyrion.

Jamie is in the kings guard, that's why he can't inherit. Tywin was trying to get him to leave but he wouldn't.

LeSulk:
Yeah gj22,I thought so too
TheNed=Gbola5 (spoiler alert)
In other news,Stannis will die without an heir unless he marries another wife(Melisandre,anyone?).His wife has repeatedly given birth to stillborns after Shireen

What happened to Shireen was a sad, sad thing. But Stannis had no choice (based on his point of view). His men were abandoning him, Ramsay burnt their supplies, they were stranded in the snow.

He could always marry another wife. His wife even changed her mind but he didn't.


F*uck you Stannis

Akanniade:
The Dornish are not as uptight as other highborns, they are hedonists.

Actually, they wanted to do something horrible until Jaime vouched for him so they let it slide.

ClaytonSuggs:
He didnt have to do that. Part of his duty to the realm is to provide an heir, and he burned that heir. Do you know there have been wars over lesser things than succession. Dont you think there could be another Stannis vs Renly case ? Why would Stannis suddenly succumb to this. Its disgusting. And if somehow he makes it out of this,and nothing goes wrong it's as bad writing as the Sand Snake's and Littlefinger this season.

I don't get. Is Stannis impotent or what?

Dgunnerz:
I'm still wondering who the f**k are The Sons of Harpy?
Who be their Commander?

Exactly. All signs pointed to that guy that was supposed to marry Danny but he isn't.