₦airaland Forum

LeSulk:
The Show's producers Beinoff and Weiss have confirmed that it was actually Martin who told them that Shireen will be sacrificed in the upcoming 6th b**k (B-word).B**k Readers who have been lashing out at D & D,will you also lash out at your master,Martin?
www.zap2it.com/blogs/game_of_thrones_showrunners_george_rr_martin_shireen_dies-2015-06

Haha. They think his word is god's word.

Now they will be okay with it.

UjSizzle:
This here is the problem.
How do you know those criticizing the character weren't also acting on what they watched, rather than what they read?
I know I wasn't basing anything on the boo and yet someone attacked me.
Let's try and be objective please. If you don't want book spoilers then stop using everything as an excuse to use the B word.

Fair enough

Dragonking:
Despite I like Ramsay, I like stannis more. Stannis has my full support..I hope he conquers the Bolton's.

Same here. Despite his actions, I see a man who will choose his duty to the seven kingdoms over his own family... that is a true king.


Or I am just a fanboy

Dragonking:
Honestly, anyone that says episode 9 wasn't interesting needs his head examined.

It was interesting. They are probably still feeling white walker fever from episode 8

sage1000:
Couldn't resist giving one lat reply.

I don't see how he would win the throne after sacrificing his daughter. Remember she is his only heir also no great lord is going to support him now either because what he did is completely distasteful that even Roose would tell him it was a bad thing to do and lets not forget the last king they rebelled against, the Mad King who also had a fondness for burning people. Nobody is going to support a man that can burn his only child especially when they recall Aerys. Last thing, now the faith has a lot of power amongst the smallfolk and that is another faction he just alienated. Apart from his almost mutinous army, he has lost every support he might have gotten. So yeah he wins this battle but he has lost the war.

it is not really unfair, Stannis is a lot of people favorite character. What would you say if out of the blue they have Jon Snow rape a character or have Arya fall in love with Meryn Trant? That is exactly the same way Stannis fans feel about him burning his daughter.

Everyone here knows I am a Stannis fan and I think he deserves the throne more than anyone else (I don't like Dany that much)

Anyway, we just have to see the consequences his actions will bring.

I for one can't wait to see what kind of sorcery Melisandre will conjure next episode.

sage1000:
Eh gj22 it was still out of character for show Stannis. Remember when he told Mel that he wasn't going to burn his daughter or every single scene this season between him and his daughter or better yet the story where he brought every doctor he could find from all over the world to save his daughter even when everyone told him it was impossible. Does that sound like a guy that would turn around and sacrifice her?

The writers just went Oh this would be a very shocking scene and get people mad like every other episode nine so lets do it. To top it off their justification for doing it was stupid.

Anyway enough of about that, anybody else think the foreshadowing with Olly is getting a bit too much.

Everyone does something out of character once in a while.

What I have problem with is the bolded quote. The writers have a story to tell and they are telling it how they see fit. People are giving the writers too much sh*t unfairly..

At that point, it was basically to either give up his throne or sacrifice his daughter.


I agree, let's not argue this again.

*whew* After a loooong argument, goodnight guys

https://i.imgur.com/D9sGuI8.jpg

themodernman:
I just imagine the burning the red priestess will get if her magic doesn't work. If I were Stannis I'll make all my men have their fill of her first b4 barbecuing her.

Magic must happen I episode 10.

Just imagine Moses crossing the red sea... but this time, with snow


Melisandre.... The last SNOW BENDER.

LeonStark:
It was still a choice show-Stannis made, cuz if not he wouldn't have met Davos, Robert wouldn't be king, it affects a lot of things. So show Stannis still made that choice.

This is the problem. The only reason you know that is because you have read the books. If the show writers wanted us to know that, they would have included it in the show the same way they included it for Jaimie and he says it clearly in the show. It was also established for cersei but it has never been established for stannis(how hard is it to include 1 line of quote?). We do not know if he had to make that decission in the past...Its a case of Schrodinger's cat


Now, even IF he did make that decision in the past, there is nothing wrong with the writing of the show if he makes a different decision now. This is because the decisions you make 20 years ago might not always be the same with the ones you make today under similar circumstances.

LeonStark:
You know. Lets just move on. What Stannis did was wrong.

Right and wrong is a point of view.(It depends on whose point of view you are approaching it)

To quote benjamin linus (LOST)

"Good is a point of view"


One thing is for sure though... IT WASNT OUT OF CHARACTER.

LeonStark:
This isnt true though. Tell me, what is Stannis ? Its an adaptation, they should have the same characteristics, sadly thry dont. Wrong. How do we judge them for who they should be ? How many book readers do you know.

QUote from wikipedia

A film adaptation is the transfer of a written work, in whole or in part, to a feature film. It is a type of derivative work.

This is the mistake you book readers are making.. You think they must be the same. THEY DONT HAVE TO BE THE SAME.


I say you judge them for who they should be because.. You are using BOOK STANNIS' character to judge SHOW STANNIS' decisions. Thereby calling it "out of character"

Also its not bad writing if a character makes a decision "out of character" because it happens in the real world.

LeonStark:
But they werent stranded. They were in the wolfswood.

Wolfswood is a forest. Do you see any trees?

also quote from gameofthrones.wikia.com about the difficulties they encountered

However, the weather turns for the worse and a snow storm delays his army. Davos reports to him that forty horses have died and the Stormcrows, a sellsword company of five hundred men, have abandoned them. Disgruntled by these news, Stannis picks up the piece off the war map, asserting that sellswords are loyal to nothing but gold, before tossing the piece away. They are also running out of food, as they cannot open the supply lines until the snow clears. Stannis remains stubborn and refuses Davos's suggestion to return to Castle Black and wait out the winter there, on the basis that the winter may last several years and the Boltons will have strengthened their forces, and especially since he was previously forced to flee from the Battle of the Blackwater. He maintains that be it to victory or defeat, they will march forward. Later, Melisandre speaks alone with Stannis and reminds him that they may need to sacrifice more King's blood in order to better their chances of winning the upcoming battle in the snow which they both saw in the flames, citing the deaths of Robb Stark and Joffrey as examples. When Stannis says that they have no chance of locating Gendry, Melisandre suggests that they sacrifice Shireen. Stannis is visibly shocked and disgusted by the suggestion, asking her if she has lost her mind. She tries to convince him by saying that Stannis must be the undisputed king when the Long Night comes, but he rebuffs her and orders her to leave his presence.[37]

Later, Ramsay Bolton and 20 men set fire to many places in Stannis' camp. The result is the loss of men, horses and nearly the entire food supply. Stannis, who is desperate, turns to Melisandre and he finally accepts her suggestion at sacrificing his own daughter by burning her at the stake.

Preboy:
lotta arguments here abt stannis.... that guy sure offended the MANY GODS[bookworms & show loyals]



anyway, i rewatched ep 8 and figured that the other[kinda older] wild walker was just observing whilst the other one fought jon, seems the wild walkers have got some kinda rank system or something

and how can the wild walkers be called a different more intelligent RACE, when they are actually humans[turned by some wierd ice magic]


WINTER IS ALREADY COME

Do not mistake white walkers for wights.

They are called race because they share a common chracteristic that is persistent in both ancestor and offspring. They have a ranking system, are organised and can drAw symbols (season 1 ep 1) which suggests some level of intelligence.

UjSizzle:
I wonder how many Azhor azai we'll have. Mel thinks it's Stannis. The other female worshipper across the narrow sea thinks it's Dany. Some of us think it's Jon Snow with all the Targ fan craze going on.

Btw were they really stranded? Stan knew the situation of things when he left Castle Black. He didn't seem it fit to kill his child until Ramsay destroyed his food supply and armory. Had those been untouched, I don't think Shireen would have been sacrificed. Somehow he would have managed the snow and marched on to Winterfell.

Exactly. He left because he had no choice (remember ser davos told him to wait for Jon to come back with more men but he gave a reason why he cant wait for Jon [I dont remember the reason]). But the storm worsened half way through and he has lost more than half his men because they ran away (remember most of his men are sellswords he bought after going to the iron bank). He was willing to risk it and continue on his journey but ramsay snuck in and destroyed his food supply. Now he has no food, fewer men and a storm that is making it extremely difficult to travel. He sent ser davos to get more food(a fools errand because he wanted to kill shireen but even if it werent, it will take davos a long time to castle black and back and stannis made it clear THERE IS NO TIME). He knew the battle was loast before it even began and had no choice but to Sacrifice the poor girl. he was basically faced with the decision to sacriffice 2 things he loves...(Duty or family)...It is an understandable decision which a lot of people disagree with. It shows that Stannis values duty more than family.

If the red witch comes through, then he made the right decision. If she doesnt, then he will regret for the rest of his life.

This is the stannis we know and understand... A good man that was forced to make a hard choice between DUTY AND FAMILY.

LeonStark:
Yes, if he prevails as king. No true king does such.

If only being a true king were the criteria for being the king... it is not

Also, i could argue that a true king puts duty over family which is clearly what stannis did.

UjSizzle:
Listen people.

Not every opinion here counts as a 'book reader being unsatisfied' thing. Most often than not it's more like 'A show viewer unsatisfied' thing. Would you feel the same way about some people's opinions if you were certain they hadn't read the darn books?
We watch the show because we like it. We read the books because we like it too. I happen to like both because they're going different direction, so it makes zero sense that anyone would say I am offended at the direction of the tv series.

Stop being unnecessary touchy. No book reader has made mention of a book here and yet you non-readers won't give it a rest.

Let's not turn this into a battle please. A number of people here have personal opinions concerning the show. Many others are fine with whatever is thrown at them. Still part of the fun of all these is our varying reactions to the episodes and characters (development and otherwise), how far we are willing to let our imaginations fly and our rant of disappointment/disapproval when the show takes a different course.

It's all normal.

So please enough with all the book talk. We're fans of the same show. Not everything should count as a spoiler here. If you think it does then maybe you need to spend more time arguing with people in the real world-- it'll teach you how conflicting opinions work.

All I'm saying is open your minds. We are not enemies.

I hate epistles so I'll stop now.


Thanks.

Signed... management

I agree.

The spoilers is not the problem (mod doing a great job). Its that people are critisizn the writters unfairly.

for example,

After the episode, show watchers came and started criticixn stannis for what he did but book readers came and started criticixn the writers by calling it "bad character development".

We the show watchers understand the character for what he is. But the book readers understand the character IN THE BOOKS so they use that to judge the show character WHICH IS WRONG.

The show watchers judge the characters for eho they are while the book reaaders judge for who they should be,

LeonStark:
The Northmen know their land. They were able to navigate it with Stannis. Their garrons and themselves wore bear foot claws they make which bend upwards, that made it possible to walk on the snow, and gave them a sure footing. And they arent in the middle of nowhere that you keep saying, they're in the North. The Northmen taught them to fish the icy lake. They did much more.

By nowhere, i meant there was nothing for miles around them.

nani667:
That's how she just left on the Dragon ni sha... Not even thinking about the people she left Behind...

I swear. After all ser friendzone did to get her attention.

LeonStark:
Yes, they dont. They are cowards who hide behind masks and do their killings at night. That can't face the unsullied.

Thats in the books because the SotH i see on the show are not cowards and are ready to die. The even face the unsullied in the daytime.


RIP Ser Barristan. We will never see his like again.

LeonStark:
They were aided by a few north men who were against Bolton rule and wanted to save "The Ned's girl". And were down to eating horses. Out of 800 horses 60 something remained.I cant remember the exact number. They also fished. And although his men(the ones that follow R'hllor) were pressuring him to offer a sacrifice he says; "Half my army is made up of unbelievers. I will have no burnings. Pray harder." And they were constantly on the march, to reach Winterfell as soon as possible. Finally they reach a crofter's village that is a days march West of WF.

All these is not possible on the show because roose bolton made it clear that it is impossible to get men that far through the snow. Food is not their only problem, and they were loosing men. They were dying of cold already.

In the books, food was their main problem but on the show, the high snow is their main problem.

LeonStark:
He could have managed. Fished the lakes, which will be teeming with fish since its cold. They could have shown us Northern lords. There are lots of Castles he could have gone to ask for help, or he coulda tried to ask. They could have shown them suffering, not for him to just outright listen to Mel. He could have waited for Davos. It looked as if he sent Davos off, in a white elephant quest, and when Davos was gone burnt Shireen. He could have killed the horses and eaten them. As he burnt Shireen, food won't just come out of nowhere if it wasnt there in the first place. Davos was a smuggler for f*cks sake. Stannis just gave up.

You are asuming that food is his only problem.... its not

Even roose bolton said it is imposible to get an army to where they were atranded BECAUSE OF THE SNOW.

What will these lords do? Have you forgotten they are in the middle of nowhere? Dying of cold? Do the lords have the power to bend snow?

LeonStark:
Aye, but its not reasonable nor can it be justified.

It is a reasonable decision but its justifiability is subjective.

It is reasonable because the witch has always been right and stannis has no reason to believe she will be wrong this time.

LeonStark:
If somehow this all works out for him, if somehow they prevail, and its cause they burnt Shireen, if somehow he still has an army, or he gets more men, then its just as bad writing as the Sand Snakes.

A shadow killed king renly..After Stannis F*cked her and she gave birth to the shadow(unarguable)

Lord of light brings people back from the dead..(unarguable)

Jeoffrey died after stannis said his name into the fire..(arguable)

But some how if burning shireen works and Stannis successfully sacks winterfell and survives the weather, it is bad writing?

The witch has always been right but if she is right this time, it is bad writing? dude come on

LeonStark:
I know you like Stannis. And i think your trying to defend it. But its a weak attempt.

I like stannis and i am not defending what he did. I understand why he did it. There is a difference

LeonStark:
It was the same scenario in the books, except Ramsay never pulled any stunt on one of the best military commanders. They were down to eating their horses and the dead for fu*ks sake. And still made it to West of Winterfell. Stannis hasnt burnt hundreds of people. And he doesnt burn unbelievers, which majority of his army are. The reason whythey say Stannis is still be an unbeliever is cuz Mel's leaches only worked for 66.66%, cuz show Balon is still alive at the point when Stannis decides to listen to Meland burn Shireen. And they shoulda considered that. But it still is a few weeks in Winter. And this is infact just Autumn's Kiss not Winter. But burning Shireen serves no purpose immediately cuz food and supplies wont come imnediately. They'd still have to drag before reaching anywhere. Food won't appear out of thin air. And ask yourself these; Didnt Stannis borrow from the Iron Bank ? Where is all that gold ? When he hired sellswords why didnt he buy enough food also ? How can Ramsay, someone who uses a sword like a flaying knife, use 20 men to do what he did ? How did Davos know it was 20men, if they didn't see them ? Weren't there sentries ? How did one of the best military commanders in Westeros forget sentries ? What will happen next ? What shouldn't happen next ?

Ramsey had 20 men sneak into a base camp and burn down their supplies. Is that an imposible task? It was basically a heist without the cool tech.

Is stannis supposed to buy food in the middle of nowhere?

Also, food wasnt his motivation to kill Shireen because he sent Davos to go fetch food which means food was readily available.

You are analysing the show from what you see in the books. It is clouding your judgement.

LeonStark:
Intention is a nice feature but it's not always known, and sometimes the outcome is much worse than whatever intention might have envisioned. I personally believe that if a person considers themselves to be ethical, then they should be ethical at all times. They shouldn't make any exceptions. It is very strange for someone who claims to have high moral standards and strict ethical rules to engage in what can be considered to be dubious behavior in order to achieve some greater good. They are more likely to look for other solutions to their problem that don't conflict with their personal values. That's the problem with what Stannis did.

Dude, WE ARE HUMAN BEINGS AND ARE GREATLY FLAWED. NOT EVERYONE HAS THE POWER TO "STAY IN CHARACTER".

what stannis did was not out of character, he had to choose between 2 loves and chose the one he loved most.

Its like choosing between one out of 2 girls you love knowing fully well the other will die based on your choice.

LeonStark:
Stannis doesnt burn unbelievers for fu*ks sake.

Are you serious? so who were those he has been burning since season 2? or are you watching a different show? Selyse's bro or so specifically says he will rather die than bow to the lord of light. What show have you been watching?

LeonStark:
The SotH have no skill whatsoever over the unsullied. The unsullied are the best infantry in the world. And part of their training is to fight in formations. Not 1 on 1.

The SotH have no skill? are you serious? sure, the unsullied might be better trained but dont say the SotH dont have skill.

They fought better when they formed formation. but before then, the SotH didnt let them get in formation.