₦airaland Forum

TheGoodJoe:

LOLS. Me tensed? If I was tensed, how did I pick up your gaffes. If you can not find Microscope, Yara Yara can bring one for the Lab for you. Consider it a favor.

You said even before the tackle went in, you were already screaming. It paints the picture of a man who is tensed up.

TheGoodJoe:

I will not define dropping deep for you A. I will not. You should understand it.

Am not asking you define dropping deep again. I know your pattern of argument.
You don't respond to questions when you feel it will overlap with your earlier assertions. Like you did with the Saviola,, Xavi golden boy argument.

TheGoodJoe:

I will not teach you dropping deep. As for Aerial balls, you clearly missed that. Accept it and move on. Or buy Microscope.

Sharp guy, see how he doged the question. You know your lies would have caught up with you if you had attempted defining what dropping deep means.

TheGoodJoe:

Go and look at the picture and tell me all the touches Iheanacho made was in the attack position. Na wa. You need microscope for medicated glasses.

The run to the ball to beat Albrighton to it was extraordinary. Before Albrighton could make few steps, Nacho was on it. I screamed before the tackle.

I wish you understood things like this. Mr Spade.

No wonder, now I see the problem. You were so tensed up while watching the game. I suggest you cool down and watch the full match again.

TheGoodJoe:


If you said Iheanacho did not, then it shows how limited your watching is. As I said before, aerial duels/battles are different from aerial balls.

Aerial balls is when without pressure, a player heads the ball.

So they are not the same thing. In battle, the Leicester defenders bullied Iheanacho off the ball repeatedly and made aerial duels difficult for him.

Mr who does not know what dropping deep is.

When I say aerial duels, definitely you should know I mean aerial battles. You think I will be referring to unchallenged headers? Lol lol

A striker leaving his natural position and dropping deep inside his half to out number the opposition and help with good passing angle is called dropping deep.
Please give me your definition of dropping deep and relate it to the role Kelechi played last night.

TheGoodJoe:

What is proven? Your copy copy stats? Do you have an idea what ordinary is?

For instance, watch the Albrighton's tackle on Iheanacho. Before it, Iheanacho made an extraordinary run to get to the ball. Here you are talking ordinary.

Iheanacho made some nice controls under pressure. Here you are talking ordinary. His chance he created for Gundogan was brilliant.

So you can not judge by reading stats. It is sad, you can not figure things like this even after watching the game.

I wonder what you were watching if you could not see Iheanacho drop deep to help the team build-up plays.

Whats so extra ordinary with the run he made? Did he run 50yards and Albrighton hacked him down?
I remember Icon4s pointing out that kelechi has a poor first touch. Against Leicester, it was quite glaring. He missed controlled a few balls and turned over possession a few times.

About kelechi dropping deep, I beg to disagree. I can't recall seeing him deep in the Man city half. Maybe he was playing to Guardiola's instructions to that regard.

Please, today is Sunday. Call a spade a spade.

TheGoodJoe:

You copy and paste. You clearly stated Iheanacho won no aerial balls. Meanwhile he did. Even without looking at the stats, I knew it was battle which is different. That was a clear gaffe from copy copy.

You can not change that with long story. You did not even know Iheanacho dropped deep.

.
Kai! Kelechi won ariel balls? Hahaha are you for real?
You're even out doing yourself in biased Man city analysis.

TheGoodJoe:
Are you serious?

I already stated that Ranieri's tactics was spot on. I already explained our defenders were slow for our highline set up. I already stated I will not exonerate Guardiola because his should have figured out the defenders were a liability to our system.

So how can you say that I can not admit we got our tactics wrong. Learn to read before writing things like this. You make repeated gaffes and it is very bad.

I pointed that Michael Oliver took away our fighting chance. That does not mean that I am saying we were flawless. Your incoherent gaffes are too much. You defend one gaffe with another.

First of all, you said Kelechi had a good game,. It's been proven he was very ordinary in that game.
You claimed he aided Man city build up play by dropping deep, its been proven that was not the case atall. If you still want to argue this line, be my guest, it won't take me 5mins to pull his heat maps.
You claimed the supposed foul on kelechi was bang on penalty, Kog45 accords to what I said earlier that it wasn't.

Between me and you who is posting gaffes?

Kog45:
Yes with Stones at d backline,man city go no where,he lacked a lot of things as a CB

With £50m, you should be buying a Diego Godin, Ramos or Koseilny. Not Jon Stones
If Man city were to put him on transfer list this morning, they will struggle to get £15m for him.

Southampton bought Virjil Van Dijk for £10m,Tottenham bought Toby Aldeweight for £11m. Joel Matip went to Liverpool on free transfer
Their transfer fees combined isn't up to half of Jon Stones transfer fee. Its quite disturbing

TheGoodJoe:

Guy you are killing it. So from that picture you posted, you can not see Iheanacho dropping deep. I repeat you are terrible at this.

Forget defending Guardiola's training method. I am talking of you lying to defend corrupt calls of the referee. It shows your mind state. You wrote lots of things that shows your understanding of the game.

It is terrible.

Without copy copy, you can not have a personal opinion.

I already highlighted your gaffes.

Stop trying hard to save face.

Right from the start, I gave my opinion on the Man city game with respect to Iheanacho's performance. I wonder what you mean by copy copy.
When you tried to make a fist of the argument, I had to go online at opta to pull kelechi's stats and unsurprisingly, his stats agreed with me that
1) he stood no chance against Huth and Morgan
2)he didn't help any build up play.
3)he saw very little of the ball and had very few touches on the ball
4)he had no attempt on goal

If you think winning aerial ball isn't important, you do realise the first goal Man city conceeded was as a result of Morgan winning an ariel duel against kelechi, with the ball going to Islam, who found Vardy, Bang!

You think I run the kind of analysis I do based on copy or just stats? Lol lol
If I did, I would have erroneously thought that Etebo played an advanced role against Algeria.

You don't have to be biased whenever matters concerning Man city are discussed. What makes you different from Robbie Savage you dissed if you can't be objective when your favourite club topic is raised.
You can't even admit you guys had a bad game all round with poor tactics, instead you blame the ref. Very typical. Lol lol

TheGoodJoe:

Where did I say Iheanacho won battle? Iheanacho got balls in the air with speed and clever movement. He did not win battle. I already said over and over again without looking at stats that he was bullied. He made impact despite the unfair scenario. I hate repeating the same thing.

You clearly missed a lot. You did not know what drop deep is. So please leave arguing. Just read your stats.

You tried to make it look as if I was lying, instead of leaving the argument because you did not understand what happened on the pitch.

You said you did not see any wrong decision. This is enough to expose your lack of understanding.

Leave it as that.

Leave that disclaimer talk. You said no aerial ball. Not duel. You could not tell the difference. If you watched the game well, you will not come to that conclusion.

A striker dropping deep simply means the player spent a lot of time in his defensive half to aid the build up play. Just like Sanchez does.

I was shocked when I read your post saying Ihenacho dropped deep and aided in the build up play. At no time did I see him deep inside his own half.
It's clear you ran out of things to praise him with that's why you rode with the idea that he dropped deep to aid build up,which is a very wrong.
Some of us watched this game, you can't say what you like just because you want to defend Guardiola's training methods working magic on Kelechi( I know that's where all this is heading to, its the usual route)

The opta dashboard I posted shows Ihenacho made 80% of his passes inside Leicester's half. And am the one who don't know what dropping deep means?

Mind you, every striker in the world is bullied. Defenders are trained to roughen opposing strikers, its a psychological warfare out there where only the tough cookies survive.
Ask Diego Costa, Suarez, Drogba,Sanchez etc... They will tell you how much they have suffered in the hands of opposing defenders.

Kelechi shouldn't expect to have defenders cuddle and sing lullaby for him. Its a tough job out there.

TheGoodJoe:


I knew you were looking at stats to talk because your write up shows you clearly did not understand what you were watching. Does that list show the brilliant movement of Nacho? Did your list tell you the he had to run to make those passes? What about his runs from midfield?

You said no aerial ball. From your list now, you are saying aerial battle. If you watched the game, you will see Iheanacho win balls in the air.

That is why I said, stick to your stats and allow those who watch the game discuss about it.

That list can not explain the quickness of Iheanacho to get to the ball before Albrighton.

Your list will not explain the bullying Nacho coped with to post those stats.

I made an argument and used stats to back it up. Atleast those who didn't see the game will get a picture of what happened.

I suspected Ihenacho had very few touches all game and clearly the stats in his dashboard highlights that. Anyone who watched the game will agree that was the case.

Yes! Actually those arrows shows the pin point location of all his passes on the grass.

I said Iheanacho didn't win any ariel ball all game, I check the stats and it showed I was spot on!

I have put disclaimers time and time again that I don't check statistics before coming to conclusions. I pull up stats to prove my assertions because it's often my words against your words.
Hence, I use stats and numbers and explain my points.

How in the world will you think kelechi will ever win an ariel battle against Huth. Even if you didn't watch the game and someone told you that, will you belive him?

TheGoodJoe:

It is not Manchester City blog. It is a football forum frequented by people of different clubs. That is a City thread. I am pointing out that how come foreigners could see a definite penal on the Nigerian golden boy but Nigerians are trying to defend the Corrupt decision not to award Iheanacho a penalty.

It was a definite penal. A tackle from behind in the box. Yet you did not see a wrong decision. Haba.

Either you do not understand what goes on a football pitch or you are very bias. No two ways about it.

One of the comment you posted says Man city should have had 4 or 5 penalties.
That should tell you how rational those fellas you're quoting are.

TheGoodJoe:

If anyone is deceiving anyone is you. Who told you that dropping deep is always to your own half. Na wa for you. You make all these reckless talks and end with accusation. Say Iheanacho did not build-up plays from deep and you define how lost you are watching games.

I clearly wonder what you were watching.

Just like I suspected, I went to Kelechi iheanacho's dashboard in today's game and the stats agrees with all I've said.

Let me break it down for you bit by bit ;
Kelechi completed 7 passes and posted 4 failed passes, as represented by the blue and red arrows.
He created 2 chances, as represented by the light blue arrows
Completed 1 take on represented by a tiny star
lost 4 ariel batlles, winning none, represented by 4 orange triangles
And commited 1 foul, represented by a black triangle.

That's about it from Iheanacho's game today. I don't know what improvements you witnessed.
He had a very average game if am to put it mildy

TheGoodJoe:
You are absolutely terrible at this. Why argue what you do not understand? If you did not see any poor officiating from Michael Oliver, quit jumping on the thread to argue. I will be honest. You are so lost.

Here is a post from ja606 from someone who was in the stadium for the game.

Blue_mooning (U12093)
posted 1 hour, 13 minutes ago
I haven't read the comments sorry. One thing that annoyed me how hasn't oliver got out the way in the build up to there 3rd? And was a clear pen on kelechi in the 1st half. If you start like we did have to accept it. Poor tactics and poor finishing aswel.

Boris 'Inky' Gibson (U5901)
posted 1 hour, 6 minutes ago
Dreadful refereeing again, we could have had 3/4 penalties but we were already 2 goals down before the first incident.

You must not argue everything. If you do not pick up these things, do not argue it.

Haba... That's a Man city blog comment you copied. What do you expect?
Of course most fans will blame the referee when they loose just like you're doing. That's why they are fans.

TheGoodJoe:

Raise my hands for what? I have no problem in losing. Not one bit. I believe football is a long-term thing, not one game.

I have a problem with unfair officiating. Michael Oliver was very poor today. It is shocking people have a problem with me pointing out how terrible he was.

As for Iheanacho, compared to what he was up against, he put up a good performance. Something people are trying to deny.

Ranieri got his tactics right. Our defenders were the weakest point. That does not change the fact that Michael Oliver was clearly biased.

Shocking you can not see quantum improvement. Watch the game. Watch the player and forget statistics sites telling you the story.

If not, you will miss out on brilliance like how Iheanacho dropped deep and helped build-up plays. Those sites can not tell you that.

LOL... I hope you realised I watched the game from start to finish?
I think Man city players were shell shocked by the 2 quick goals they conceeded within the first 5 mins
.

Iheanacho at no time dropped to his half to help the build up play.

In my view, Iheanacho had the least touches of all the players on parade today. I may have to check up on that later.

What will you gain by deceiving people who didn't watch the game? You're better than this

TheGoodJoe:

Raise my hands for what? I have no problem in losing. Not one bit. I believe football is a long-term thing, not one game.

I have a problem with unfair officiating. Michael Oliver was very poor today. It is shocking people have a problem with me pointing out how terrible he was.

As for Iheanacho, compared to what he was up against, he put up a good performance. Something people are trying to deny.

Ranieri got his tactics right. Our defenders were the weakest point. That does not change the fact that Michael Oliver was clearly biased.

Shocking you can not see quantum improvement. Watch the game. Watch the player and forget statistics sites telling you the story.

If not, you will miss out on brilliance like how Iheanacho dropped deep and helped build-up plays. Those sites can not tell you that.

I wonder what statistics site you're talking about. I never cited any statistics or gave an percentage,neither did I post any data from a dashboard.

I can't recall any bad decision Michael Oliver made.
The supposed handball would have been harsh to give because the Man city player smashed the ball from 3yards into the hands of Fuchs.
The tackle on Iheanacho was not as bad as you make it out. That particular incident wasn't even deliberated on by the analysts at half time.

You're making a storm in a tea cup with your calling out of the referee and in another breath admiting Leicester got their tactics spot on.
The scoreline would have been more embarrassing, had Bravo not pulled a stunning save to deny Mahrez in the first half.

TheGoodJoe:

Choi. Iheanacho did not win an aerial ball. Are you sure it is aerial balls or duels. Iheanacho got some aerial balls. This your statistics site na wa.

Leave your statistics site, did you see Iheanacho's pass to Gundogan? Did you see his touches before the pass? Did you see Iheanacho's control of the ball with his chest under a tight situation.

I repeatedly said, Iheanacho was bullied. Unless you do not understand what bullying does. It is difficult to win aerial balls under such situations when the referee allows bullying.

Someone Like You should know that.

As for dribbling, it is difficult for an attacker to complete dribbles in such situations. That is for wingers.

Leave bias and sentiments aside, raise your hands, be a gentleman acknowledge Man city where beaten hands down.
Leicester didn't employ and dirty tactics. Ranieri's tactics came together nicely.

He put Islam and Vardy with an instruction to run/press and strangle Man city defenders.
There terrifying pace frightened Jon stones into making childish errors.
There was a moment Islam chased Jon stones out of the pitch (not literally)

Pep Guardiola's tactics is getting stale and he's being found out just 14 weeks into the premiership.

It's obvious he's struggling because he doesn't have the best assembly of players in the league and one of the best players of all time to rely on.
Am interested to see how Pep Guardiola improves on his 2nd year, as his legacy as a manager will depend on his time in England.

I haven't seen any quantum improvements on Iheanacho's game. The much heralded pass to Guondogan was very basic, which any Premier league forward will make.

TheGoodJoe:

The ball was in front of Albrighton. Iheanacho went passed Albrighton with amazing speed (Something someone like you will fail to notice) that tackle was in the box. Beats me how towards goal or not changes tackle in the box. The tackle was from behind. How is that not a penalty, beats me. I am sure that was okay to you.

I will listen to a critique who comes here and points out the good side of Iheanacho's game. If not,

Yara Yara give me one word for that.

Yara Yara: BIAS.

Iheanacho went past Albrighton? Iheanacho never completed a dribble in that game. He never had a shot all game, he never won any aerial ball because definitely he had no chance in the air against Huth/ Morgan, and certainly the quality of his passing was below average like the other players.
The only highlight of Iheanacho's minutes was when he put dropped the ball for Gundogan.

The penalty claim you talked about was not a strong one.

TheGoodJoe:

You can trust the experts who failed to talk about the clear penalty in the box against Iheanacho. The failed to pickup the build up plays or the brilliant passes to the wings.

When you find an expert that points to the Iheanacho penalty call that left him in agony on the field let me know.

Even the EPL studios refused to talk about City penalty calls at half time. That will tell you everything.

Find an expert that talks about the penalty call.

Iheanacho and Man city where off colour.
Frankly speaking I wasn't impressed one bit by Iheanacho. He never had a foot hold on the game like Gundogan, David silva and Navas.

You keep talking about a penalty call on Iheanacho but the truth is that Iheanacho was never in a goal scoring position when Albrighton made the tackle. Infact, Iheanacho had his back to goal and the ball moving away from him just inside the box when Albrighton took both the ball and the man.
Those who didn't watch the game will be deceived into believing Ihenacho had a blinder of a game and was fouled in a goal bound move after reading your post. Perspective please.

TheGoodJoe:

I think is time we stopped judging players by prize tags. If not, Sterling is Figo and Pogba is teaching Zidane how to juggle ball.

Stones is still a young player. He needs time to horn his skills. Unfortunately, City does not have that time.

Lots of defenders will cost less but unfortunately, we have the English rules that force clubs to spend big money on Cahill and Sterling.

Prize tag matters. For £50m, you should be buying a world class Pro not a guy learning the ropes.
It's like buying a Ferrari for $50k with a keke napep engine.

Of course you will find a way to justify his price tag, a few months ago you said he's worth the price tag because he had over 90% pass accuracy against Sunderland.
Like passing is all there is to football. Nothing else matters apart from passing right? Lol lol

If Man city had 3 Agueros today, they will still loose scandalously. The problem is their backline.

TheGoodJoe:

Go and watch the first goal. Stones was the last defender beaten. So, how can he be the major culprit. The blame can not fall on one player. The only defender that came to the game was Sagna. He was phenomenal. A second defensive performance like that and it would have been a different game.

The problem is Zabaleta and Kolarov are past their best. Tracking back is difficult. Where Stones failed is his decision making.

By the way, let people leave that Stones is overhyped. He is one of the most criticised defenders, even before he joined City.

For £50m, I would expect more from Stones. Lots of defenders who cost 1/4 of his transfer fee are miles better than him. Virjil Van Dijk and Mustafi transfer fee put together won't buy Jon stones. Its ridiculous.

Kog45:
CC:thegoodjoe
Icon4
. Supernerd
. basconvanveli
. tbaba
goldfish
. Joseph1013
pls I had an argument with a friend on why Kanu Nwankwo was one of d best striker to have come out of Nigeria that w always be on my S/E xi but my friend disagreed that cannot w never make his S/E xi,citing his reasons like 87 appearances wit 12 goal,5 Afcon,3 W/C without a goal.

He said i should do my research and i did thorough research on d past and present S/E attacking players with Rasheed Yekini 58 app/37 goals,Segun Odegbami 46 app/23goals,Yakubu Aiyegbeni 57/21 goals,Obafemi Martins 41 app/18,Samson siasia 51 app/16 goals,Aghaowa 32 app/14 goals,Daniel Amokachie 44 app/13 goals,Ahmed Musa 60 app/11 goals,Osase Odewengie app 63/10 goals,Amuneke 27 app/9 goals,Victor Moses 27 app/9 goals,Emenike 37 app/9 goals,Victor Ikpeba 31 app/7 goals,Ideye 27 app/6 goals,Finidi 62 app/6 goals,Agali 12 app/5 goals,Babaginda 36 app/5 goals.

After this,i told him Kanu has more assists than any Nigeria player which he disagreed,citing Amokachie, Siasia and Finidi as d best in assists in super eagle history.

I told him look this guy won Africa footballer of d year twice,he said Ikpeba won it also,is Ikpeba rated than Okocha or Amokachie when w talk of super eagles.

Pls house what really make Kanu so special that he was so valuable to super eagle during his playing career coz i respect his talent than any other Nigeria striker.

For me Kanu is the best player we have produced. The guy is simply phenomenonial.
Sometimes stats don't tell the full story. For example, stats won't tell you how made the assist before the assist. Stats won't tell you who initiated a move which later snow balled into a goal.

Kanu brings certain skill and composure through which the game flows.
His technical level is out of this world.
Players like Kanu, Berbatov, Pirlo, maybe Totti and lately Ozil are what I would call the endangered specie. Its unfortunate that football managers these days train players as athletes first before footballers. The focus on training these days is on speed, strength, shot. Skill, finness is an after thought, almost like an anormally these days.
Players who play with grace and panache are getting kicked out of the game.

Looking at stats won't tell you how good Kanu is. Watching him play would give any genuine football fan an instant orga$m.

tbaba1234:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CzPyfcuXgAECAxC.jpg

Congratulations to Ndidi. Its not small feat what he have achieved within the last 2 years.

I also see Leon Bailey made the list. He's just 20, definitely another one to watch. Its refreshing seeing young guys doing so well.
Then Virjil Van Dijk of Southampton, who for me is top 3 centre back in England with Koseilny and Toby Alderweit.
Nice seeing Ndidi in such company.

tbaba1234:
Does anyone remember the original super mario? Mario Jardel... Great scorer but could not make the brazilian team at the time

I Was more interested in his super model sister Jordania Jardel.

princesuko:
Bailly Says Hi tho. Pep first choice was Laporte. Most of the best Ball-Playing defenders are either spanish or Learnt their trade there.

Lets Agree to disagree as i don't see you caving soon. Uche Agbo is improving in Granada.

You really want to compare the Spanish production line of defenders with their French, Italian and German counterparts?
Like you said, let's agree to disagree.

princesuko:
Bellerin spent 8years at Barca before moving to Arsenal in 2013.if that's not home-grown enough?
Pique only spent 2-3years at Man u
Dani Alves and Marcelo went to Sevilla and Madrid when they were 18.

The claim that spain doesn't groom young defenders well is a myth that is false.

Bellerin was bought as a Right winger(no7) from the Barca U18's but was further developed and converted at Arsenal to the monster Right back we see today.
Pique was at Manchester 3 years prior to his 22nd birthday which makes him eligible to be called English "home grown"

Marcelo played a full season in Brazil before he was bought with cicinho I think.

Teams do not look to Spain and Netherlands when searching for defenders.
The ratio of Spanish home grown defenders who have hit the tilt and those who haven't is like 2:10

BascoVanVeli:
At the end of the day it is who u know, that is the way of life not just football. If Iheanacho gets sold his father will stand a chance of making cash but that is completly legal. Being a relative might get u in the door but u still have to make the right deals or else u would be out of clients.

Nobody is talking about players relationship with agents who could be a family member.

We are taking about managers relationship with agents.

Imagine what happens if a manager chooses to buy players who are managed by his family members or close pals.

Due to conflict of interest and personal relationships, these deals are so negotiated that the manager and agents takes mark-up from the deal and a slice of the players wages.

Alot of shaddy deals are done behind the curtains by your favourite clubs and managers.

BascoVanVeli:
At the end of the day it is who u know, that is the way of life not just football. If Iheanacho gets sold his father will stand a chance of making cash but that is completly legal. Being a relative might get u in the door but u still have to make the right deals or else u would be out of clients.

Nobody is talking about players relationship with agents who could be a family member.

We are taking about managers relationship with agents.

Imagine what happens if a manager chooses to buy players who are managed by his family members or close pals.

Due to conflict of interest and personal relationships, these deals are so negotiated that the manager and agents takes mark-up from the deal and a slice of the players wages.

Alot of shaddy deals are done behind the curtains by your favourite clubs.

komekn:
Harry is just like a Korofo policeman taking bribe at check points, he's that bad.

Too be brutally honest the whole agent thing that goldfish80 describes is actually an understatement it's much worse.

All deals are done on primarily on relationship. Your Fifa registration isn't worth a carrot without network. Having a brother as Manager or sometimes even as a major player will open doors for you.

Chris Wellbeck is Danny's brother he's not a major player but he made sweet money on the move from United to Arsenal. Money that gives leverage.

The conflicts of interest make corruption inevitable, the subject matter is subjective so it's so easy for vested interests to over ride best practice.

Goldfish80 it's not just African players it's all players, money no get colour.

Rednapp is as bad and corrupt as they come. He's even involved in betting with his players on their own games. Its absolutely mental.

The relationship between Raiola (mourinho's agent and friend) and Mourinho raises all sorts of red flags and ethical questions.
Mourinho has a history of only dealing with Raiola from his Porto days. Everyman and his wife knows what a wheely dealer Raiola is.
Wenger have over the years sworn not to be involved in these under the table deals with agents and especially Raiola.
That's why it takes Arsenal's Dick Law alot of time to close deals and Wenger do not buy Raiola's players.

I have a feeling it's one of the reason why Mourinho hates Wenger.

BascoVanVeli:
It might be conflicting intrest but it is not corrupt. A coach does not have the power to tell his brother not to be an agent. The practice might open the door for corruption but on it's own it is not.

The agents use their relationship with the managers to get their players signed up on the agreement that a certain percentage/cut of the players salary/allowance goes to the manager.

These sort of deals usually involves African players.

When Portsmouth signed alot of African players like Utaka, Papa Diop, Fae, Diao, Colly, Muntari, Kanu etc... You don't want to know what Harry Rednapp made from those deals.