₦airaland Forum

Mujtahida:
Being faithful to your ideology is not sentimental Bro. Perhaps doctrinaire or rigid. Sentiments as used by you in the context of our discussion doesn't align with the examples you are giving.
Obviously Rohr belongs to the you - never - change - winning - team old school football coaching philosophy.

I do not regard decisions based on practical realities to be sentimental. Edi287 has given you practical reasons why Loew possibly chose one player over the other. Rohr went with our best legs. Even in the wake of the defeat to Croatia nobody has queried his choice of the 23 players because they are the best available for us now. All the others are untested would- have, would - have players.

Anything can be explained. Do you think Hitler didn't have an explanation why he killed jews? Do you think Babangida didn't have an explanation why he annulled June 12? Edi287 spared a thought on why he felt certain players were excluded. It doesn't mean they were devoid of sentiments on the part of Loew.

A tendency to be influenced by emotion rather than reason or fact is the dictionary meaning of sentiment. There were no apparent reason or statistical fact why Loew dropped Germans most potent winger last season. What was the reason backed with data why Neuer was chosen ahead of Ter Stegen when Neuer hardly kicked a ball last season? Was Sami Khedira's stats better than Emre Can's who played up to the champions league finals.
If you can answer any of these questions with hard stats and data then I will conceed that Germans can never give into sentiments

Mujtahida:
It is not sentiments. It is that my choices were bad. Finish. Mind you if na naija coach I will agree with you 100% but as far as the facts of Rohr’s selection or Loew is concerned I will not agree particularly since you have nothing to ground your opinion other than saying so and so player is good. Therefore if the coach picked so and so other than so and so who WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER = sentiments.

So based on his showings don't you think Ebuehi WOULD HAVE done better than Shehu?

was it sentiments that made Rohr to choose Shehu ahead of Ebuehi?

Rohr had his team penciled down since January.
Do you know the line up that played Croatia was published on a Nigerian daily 2 months ago? The exception was Etebo who replaced Onazi for obvious reasons.
If a man is a slave to his ideology, then he is very sentimental.
Germans are not immune to this.

edi287:
Happy birthday sir Goldfish80.

Thank you Mr Arsenal, Sir Edi287

Mujtahida:
At the bolded: see if I'm a coach I'd likely not take players like Vicmo and Onyekuru as my wingers no matter how good they are cos my winger must cross the ball and be good at it. I will be faithful to my philosophy, not a player unless the player fits. So if for this practical reason I pick one player and not the other it is sentiments. Does this sound reasonable to you Bro?

It becomes a problem of sentiment if those players you picked are not as good as those dropped.

Mujtahida:
Hahahaha hahahaha. In camp you say. I long stopped believing all those useless talk about being the best in camp. So you still believe those reports?

'He would have, he would have, he would have'.

Newsflash: all the players dropped would have, would have, would have just because they are not there!.

Na so dem shout up home based goalies until Atletico match blow olorunleke nyash open.

This same simplistic reasoning is the same one you attacked the pro - Ebuehi guys yesterday through to this morning and here you are saying same thing in defence of your biases.

Opinion that's all you have so far and no factual basis for your opinion.

Neither Rohr nor Loew left behind their best assets. Edi287 has punctured all your points and given reasons that can justify why the coach choose the players he chose. And I bet if you seat down with these coaches and they explain their motivations to you, you will shelf this your opinion.

If we dey talk football especially WC make una no dey mention CHAN.

Chan is a category 3 tournament rated by FIFA on par with Afcon. If a guy was out jumping very tall Sudanese players, trust me that person should be noted.
This idea of writing off homegrown solution is the reason we will never do well in a competition like the world cup.

The failings of foreign coaches employed by Nigeria in recent past can be traced to their jettison of home made solutions. We employ people who are not even resident in Nigeria. I saw your write up the other day complaining about Rohr and his lack of knowledge of Nigerian football culture, I smiled and scrolled past. How do you expect a man resident in France to understand the footballing culture of Nigeria? Vogts, Lagerback and now Rohr haven't managed to cracked it and they were all coaching Nigeria from Europe.
Compare these guys with Westerhof who helped develop Nigeria football from the grassroots. The man knew particular tribes where he will scout and get particular type of players.

Back to the issue of sentiments, trust me my Intel about Eze's performance didn't come from roadside bloggers. You will be shocked if I mentioned my source.

Mujtahida:
It doesn't just make for a nice read. It bears on practical aspects of life.

Your insistence on sticking this sentiments thing onto the Germans is classic projection. your mentioning Rohr makes it even more evident.

What is the overriding reason why Rohr went to the WC with these 23? We all know it and it is that he wants to stick to the team that played the WCQ(whether for good or bad-that is the overriding reason) . And I'd do same too not go topple my team and bring in (your darling team B) those who have no clear cut quality above the 23 he chose. If there's sentiments it must surely come from our brothers who would whisper our favourite ethnic biases into his ears. We can criticise the German but not on grounds of sentiments. 95% of Nigerians align with his choice of players. I suppose Because he didn't pick Nwakali Brothers now means he's sentimental. Choi!

The reason for Voghts choice is well known(forumites here have said it) and I think even documented:Berti Voghts chose Ejide because he fit into the German preference for big tall gk not frivolous, soppy sentiments and you know the functionality of that preference.

You are projecting Bro. Nothing objective to validate your point. I repeat it's a matter of your opinion and you free to air but just know that it's not factual. Not in the least.

Sentiment is sentiment. It doesn't have to be frivolous to be sentiment. When you leave behind your best asset just because he doesn't fit into your philosophy, what do you call that?

Do you know Stephen Eze was the best defender while in camp just before the world cup? Those who saw the team's training session were full of commendation for him. I'm even thinking judging by his height and ariel dominance, he would have been an asset with the cowardly defending of corner kicks which is the bane of this team. I don't have the stats but at Chan he must have won the most ariel battles in that competition.

Why do you think he was dropped since Germans are immune to sentiments?

edi287:
Parvlenka, Hradecky and Rico are better options. I'd rather we take a punt on Lunin and Lafont. Leverkusen are replacing him with a better keeper in Hradecky. I don't care about his potential, Leno has been average for 2-3 seasons now

I heard Parvlenka is good but I haven't really seen him. Sergio Rico have the odd mistake in him. Lafont could too young to be the safe hands for a team in transition like Arsenal. It could go all wrong very quickly.
A guy like Keylor Navas would be ideal for Arsenal if Madrid get Allison.

Mujtahida:
You clearly don't know anything about the German character. There are national traits: the English are renowned for their wry humour, the French for their lust, the Italians for their unbridled emotions. The chief trait of the German people is that they are not given to sentiments. That's why I told you that you are projecting your nigerianess into the German psyche.

It is said that Germans are so blunt that if you are not used to their ways you'd feel hurt. They tell it straight.

Do you know what Aryan means?

Those character profiling based on nationality makes for a nice read and nothing more.

I like being practical, we have our own German in Gernot Rohr, some of his decisions so far have been based on sheer sentiment. Will you tell me he's not German enough? How about Berti Vogts? On what ground did he drop Enyeama and instead opted for Austin Ejide?
Humans are always human. Forget those character prose.

edi287:
That was before. Leno has stagnated majorly. Too error prone now. He's committed the second most errors leading to goals in the Bundesliga since 2014. I don't want Arsenal to sign him

LOL... these Arsenal fans. Who will you prefer Arsenal signs? Allison Backer? Oblak? Those guys are out of Arsenal's play group. You can only hope to get a tier 2 keeper like Leno or Sergio Rico.

What an absorbing game the Swiss served up in the end.
Honestly speaking, our team looks a solid 3 levels below what I have seen from teams so far in this tournament.
We are streets behind teams like Switzerland and Mexico in terms of output.
These are countries we should be rubbing shoulders with.

Mujtahida:
But you've not been able to prove it was sentiments that motivated his choice of players. He's been there since 2006. This is his third WC and even fourth if we include 06 in which he was an assistant to Klinsmann. He's been through 3 Euros. Now he picked players for the WC and your reason why he did so is that it was sentiments. There's no factual basis for your conclusions. That's why I said it's your opinion.

Sure he would be judged. In 2014 Spain couldn't make the second round and it was universally agreed that it was because they took an ageing team to WC.

All I'm saying is that your reason for this German loss doesn't hold water because you cannot prove that it was sentiments that motivated the coach's choice.

If him no carry Neuer now you'd probably say 'chai see this sentimental coach, he left a world class Neuer and picked other gk'

Human beings are sentimental but Germans are renowned to be straightforward, unsentimental people. And that's a very strong reason why I doubt your postulation particularly in the light of the fact that Loew didn't start yesterday. He knows the template of success and failure. He's likely to stick to it than to allow sentiments be cloud his judgment.

Neuer barely played last season for Bayern because of injuries. No way I would have said Neuer should be there even if he barely played through out the season. Not when you have a couple of other world class choices in that same position.

Also, every coach have their favorite players and Germans are like every other human specie, they don't have an off switch when you talk of favoritism, loyalty and sentiment.

Mujtahida:
They didn't pick those players and automatically it's sentiments that caused it. I proved to you that fitness was an issue in 2014 and still they won.

I read somewhere why Loew didn't pick Sane and it had nothing to do with sentiments. Mexico came to play and they played.

Defeats and failures have reasons but I find your reasons not grounded in fact. It's just your opinion.

You haven't been able to disapprove Leow wasn't sentimental in his choices. It's not a enough saying Germans aren't sentimental. Although, being a world cup winner, he earned the right to make whatever choices on players, by sunset, he will be judged by those choices in victory or in defeat,just like today.

edi287:
Think the Confederations Cup was a battle for who would be Neuer's understudy. Ter Stegen won and Leno got dropped.

Understudy ke? At 27yrs old? For me, Leno and Ter Stegen are at the same level, the difference is that Ter Stegen left Germany early while Leno stayed behind.

Mujtahida:
If dem put that goalkeeper and he was scored you'd say something as to why he was scored.

My point still stands that favoritism is not a Nigerian thing. I have listed as much as 4 players at the drop of the hat who made the German team on very questionable grounds.
You cannot keep saying Germans are not sentimental when there's no clear definition why some of those guys made the team. I'm sure there's a German word for "sentiment"

edi287:
Leno case is complex. He and Ter Stegen have a big rivalry between them so apparently it was a choice between him or Ter Stegen. Ter Stegen has obviously had a better season so he dropped Leno and took Trapp instead. Not too much of a loss as Leno isn't that great and is very error prone

This is where man management comes in. If there was friction between Leno and Ter Stegen, the Manger should have stepped up and resolved it. Those 2 guys played at the confed cup last year. Kevin Trapp was binned by Unai Emery last season, reduced him to just making appearances in French cup games.

edi287:
Low simply starter Neuer due to his reputation. Neuer has a fear factor that Ter Stegen doesn't possess as of yet. I didn't watch the game properly so I don't know how well he played.
As for Sane, he doesn't do well in the NT. It also didn't help that he missed the Confederations Cup and Brandt was great at it. Sane wasn't going to replace Reus. When Reus is fit, he plays

Rues is almost a spent force these days. Injuries have taken a toll on him.

Mujtahida:
vast or no vast:that is not the point. dem dey score goalkeeper. finish. its not everytime a goalkeeper is scored that we should be making up reasons why he was scored. didnt you see the saves Nueur made? so those days when he used to play regularly and was fit(according to you) he no dey chop goals abi?so what were the reasons then?

dem must score goalkeeper.even the best!!!

i repeat germans are not given to sentiments. look for another reason to ground your points.

It just occurred to me Kevin Trapp, Psg's second choice keeper made the German squad.
Care to elaborate on why he was chosen ahead of an inform Leno? If we eliminate the word sentiment.

Mujtahida:
vast or no vast:that is not the point. dem dey score goalkeeper. finish. its not everytime a goalkeeper is scored that we should be making up reasons why he was scored. didnt you see the saves Nueur made? so those days when he used to play regularly and was fit(according to you) he no dey chop goals abi?so what were the reasons then?

dem must score goalkeeper.even the best!!!

i repeat germans are not given to sentiments. look for another reason to ground your points.

In Neuer, we are talking of the best goalkeeper in the world in the past 5years atleast. I have seen him pull off miraculous saves that makes me believe even that goal conceded today may have been saved in his prime.
Don't make it sound as if I'm blaming him for the goal, because I'm not. I saw your comment about Uzoho and some other postulations.

Mujtahida:
hahahahaha hahahaha. i guess there are many goldfishes in the french football pond. na joke oo

Maybe oh! The French are usually crazy about their team. They are tracing their lack of creativity to Pogba and unavailability of creatives like Payet and Rabiot.

Mujtahida:
na wa. you are really a nigerian.we do not see the world as it is but as we are. nigerians see sentiments whether in the form of tribalism or favoritism in everything to the extent that they even use it to interprete the actions of other countries. go and read 'Das Reboot: How Germany Won the World Cup' and you will find that right up to their first match Germany had fears about the fitness of this same Neuer(i dont understand this talk whenever a goalkeeper is scored and you guys come out to say all this things. now this is not Uzoho yet you basically saying the same thing. dem no go sccore goalkeeper again? haba) Lahm, Shweinsteiger, Khedira,Klose all had fitness concerns and yet they went ahead to win the WC.

here's an excerpt from the book on the above point

---

But the ‘no compromise’ line was quietly shelved as key players Manuel Neuer, Philipp Lahm, Bastian Schweinsteiger (all Bayern Munich) and Sami Khedira (Real Madrid) turned up in northern Italy in varying states of unfitness. Doubts over the physical shape of veteran striker Miroslav Klose after a season with little football at Lazio added to the pervading sense of uncertainty. Instead of being able to rely on his team’s spine, Löw was staring at a team sheet full of question marks. Neuer, the outstanding goalkeeper, had hurt his shoulder in the DFB Cup final and missed the first days of the training camp, along with the consistently excellent and versatile Lahm, who was nursing a complicated ankle injury. ‘There were days when I couldn’t run in straight lines,’ recalls the captain, sitting in his agent’s office in Munich’s fashionable meatpacking district. ‘The team were already in Italy, yet I was still with the doctors in Munich. They were saying that they couldn’t really tell me anything because the scans looked so strange. Everything was swollen.’

---

i dont trust the analysis of most of here abeg. the most shocking is:when a goalkeeper concedes one will hear all sorts of unreasonable. for you to narrow germany's defeat to sentiment on the part of the coach shows that you know nothing about the German character. Germans are the most unsentimental people. you are just projecting nigeria into germany.

Since you're very vast in knowledge of German football, can you tell me when last Neuer played competitive football for Bayern Munich and how many games he played last season.
Also tell me the rationale for playing an out of shape Boateng who have struggled this past season. The same Boateng Bayern have placed on transfer.

See, in all human endevour, there's always favoritism. Favoritism is not a Nigerian word. If not for Lowe's sentiment, he wouldn't have dropped Leroy Sane. No way an out of shape Neuer gets into the team ahead of the Barcelona keeper. It is all sentiments,nothing Nigerian about this.

The German team is the perfect example why you don't pick a team on sentiments.
Neuer isn’t back to full fitness, a fit Neuer saves that goal.
Khedira shouldn’t be starting not with Can on the team.
Boateng hasn’t played all season and he has been lumbering in this match.

andrew444:
Winning is winning

The French are having none of that.

Hector Herrera is the best midfielder on show tonight.

The Germans appear all over the place each time Mexico attack.

andrew444:
France where not so good in friendlies but they won their first game? Are you expect france to win Australia 4-0?

How did their victory come about?was it not a fluke goal and a soft penalty they won the game with? Do you know how heavily critical the French public are of this present team and manager?
Pogba is under heavy fire from the French media for the limp performance against Australia. Bros, let's not derail this thread.

MetalJigsaw:
Exactly. Mexico that was once on our level. That team has greatly progressed

We were evenly matched 4yrs ago in that friendly in USA. Pound for pound, player for player.

andrew444:
Dont judge by friendlies world cup is the real deal,brazil could not beat mexico at last world cup and mexico won croatia 3-1

You cannot rule out friendly matches with a stroke of pen. France were not so good in friendlies and it showed in their first game in Russia. Germany weren't convincing in their friendlies and you are seeing how they are struggling today.

andrew444:
We played them but we didnt played them in a competitive game,i dont believe in friendlies.

I dont know if our present team will win them or not,but if our present team played the way they played yesterday against croatia,sorry bro we might lost with 3 goals

Well, I actually belive in friendlies. The current Nigerian team as a case study never convinced in their friendlies and now those tipid performances are being replicated in the main event.

tbaba1234:
It is not an excuse. He was injured and did not play again during the season.

How many times did you see Shehu providing Moses with an overlap option He sat back and played safe.

But Tbaba, I thought you liked defensive full backs. What have changed?

Mujtahida:
germany dey hear am. they have taken the game to the germans and holding their ground admirably. abeg goldfish80 tell me which clubs this mexicans play for.

modified: i just checked online. they play for teams like porto, west ham, standard,real betis, galaxy LA,club america,sevilla,tigresse.na madrid abi na barcelona abi man u or chelsea? compare this clubs to the clubs the german squad members play for.

its no point really to say we lost because we had average players not playing in good clubs like the croats.

our defeat is mental. i posted the video of a cockerel that fought a dog till the dog ran away.

You don't have to play in big clubs to have a creative team. I have always said our most creative players are playing in lesser fancied teams in Europe and Africa.

andrew444:
What same level? a draw in a friendly match?

This same mexico beat croatia in 2014 world cup,the same team you could not beat,and mind you the same croatia has a younger modric and mandzukic then,there was also perisic there.

This same mexico that brazil could not beat on their home soil in 2014 when they played a goaless draw with the host nation.

As far as i am concerned they are better than us for the past 6 years.

I think we played them twice and they were all draws, all within the past 6years.
Do you reckon this our present team will loose to them with less than 3goals? I don't think so.

Odunayaw:
More so doing it with a team of relatively poorer class. Some beautiful team chemistry

The Mexicans are fleet footed, mobile and skillful. I have never seen a team dominate Germany since the Euro finals against Spain.
This is why I don't subscribe to just calling big name players who aren't creatives. You will end up with limp and tipid football all round like Ngr.