₦airaland Forum

The guy is superb. He really deserves it.

Thumbs up to Barcelona for qualifying for the finals.

seyiox: i believe we should pay our tithes.
The reason many have opposed the idea on this posting is that they fear what pastors will do with it.

Que.
If you think your pastor is that greedy then why do is he still your pastor?
How come you're so interested in your pastor only when it comes to money matters?
If you decided to give your tithes to the poor. How come the command to give your tithe and to give to the poor are completely different?
If your pastor is really greedy, why you feel you are they one to react by not giving your tithe? Or God cannot defend his own again?

I believe that if you wanted to analyse every things in the bible, you'll finally find a reason to sin. That's because you finding a way to align what is written to what you feel should have been written.

Forgive my being blunt.

Wonderfully said bro!

@Hnd-holder, are you a Christian or a Muslim? You seem to be lost.

Akolawole:
And the winner is:

Cough!

Cough!!

Cough!!!



GOODGUY.

Wonderment!!!

And what about Christians that don't go to church?

Dojo:
@Goddguy
May the good Lord bless your spirit.
Peace and love.

Amen!


@Aamy, your ear sharp o! Anyway, next time I listen to the song, I'll see if your lyrics rhyme with it, then I can recommend it to anybody.

zebudaya:
good guy You need to do some research then come back intellectually. don't make me believe you are too lazy to think stuff through. It seems all you do is quote my words just to quote them. and offer some half assed rebuttal. You dissapoint me.

You should be the one to do some more research before coming here to post a link to a wine maker's site who claims his wine is alcoholic, and then you concluding that all wines contain some alcohol.

zebudaya:
Yea yea Jesus had no choice. Blasphemy . How can you say Jesus had no choice. If he did not want to be crucified anymore he could have asked God to send angels and take him off the cross, but then satan would have won. He took all the pain, even did not taste water for 40 days, and then had no choice? please spare me.

Next time, you ask me what I meant then I'll explain. When I said 'He had no choice', what I simply meant was that He just had to do it. He had no choice but to do it for our sake so that the prophecy may be fulfilled.

Back to the Original question now:

The question says, 'Is it right for a Christian to take alcohol?' First of all, you need to understand that the word 'Christian' means 'Christ-like'. You can't claim to be like Christ and be doing what he never did [at least, not for pleasure or any willing reason]. If at all Jesus took alcohol, which I'm beginning to doubt due to the controversial explanation about whether vinegar is actually alcohol; he took it, not that he asked for it, nor did he drink for pleasure or merrymaking. Rather, it was to fulfill the prophecy in Ps 69:21. Therefore, I think if truely you want to justify the act of drinking of alcohol, using what Jesus went through; as a christian (Christ-like), you should be able to go through the same thing, otherwise, DO NOT MENTION ANYTHING THAT WENT ON DURING THE CRUCIFIXION OF JESUS CHRIST!

alheri:
Anyway, its a pity if thats all youre looking at, my main point was the beatings he went through. The people(celes) that prayed for him prophesied that he would travel and it shall be well with him because of their prayers and beatings and deliverance, that nothing could go wrong with him. If they can really forsee the future, how come they didnt forsee he would be deported less than a year later? Would you now blame the guy for spreading bad propaganda about cele cause of his experience?

Obviously, your posts have proven that you have personal issues against Cele. You said yourself that the guy was looking for a visa, he got to a cele church, and he eventually got one. He got what he asked for!  I'm very sure if he wasn't granted a visa at all, you would have even posted more negative things about Cele here. Now, one thing I want you to understand is that we do NOT claim to forsee the future. In Cele, the prophets only deliver whatever has been shown to them, unless the prophet himself is fake.  If God decided not to reveal it to the prophets that the guy would be deported, would that make the prophets fake? Would it make them less/not powerful?

And you seem to be implying that in Cele, we have powers. No, my sister. That is not true at all.  Only God has the powers and he bestows it on whomever he pleases. If a born again Christian loses a certain amount of money and he prays to God to help him recover it, but he doesn't, does that make the born-again a fake guy? Does that make the church he attends a fake one? Does that make God untrue?

I'm cock sure if that incidence happened in your church, you wouldn't post it here on Nairaland at all. 

kiwibabe:
I mean,If Cele's prophets were as powerful as they like to believe. Why is it, they do not try to change the world for the better. I mean look at all of things that has happened in the world over the last few years. Did anyone from Cele stand up and prohetise to the world that they new this would happen or even help to change the outcome, as they soo like to believe they can do.

Is Pastor Adeboye not a powerful man of God? What of Chris Oyakhilome? What about other powerful men of God with big big churches?  What about the pastor of your own church? Isn't God with them also? Don't they perform miracles in their churches?  So how come they haven't prophesied that certain things will happen over the last few years?  Are they all fake too?  My sister, STOP attributing things to Cele unnecessarily.

zebudaya:
@Goodguy, I would need you to read my post then put in some effort to make sense of what i am saying before picking it apart and discrediting it

I really do not know what you mean by this.

zebudaya:
Okay i said
Quote from: zebudaya on Yesterday at 10:58:07 PM
@babymine even the wines bottled as non-alchoholic wine have alchohol in them only in very little quantities anything that does not have alchohol in it is fruit juice. do the research

You said "I really wonder where you got this fact from."

I got it from a wine maker's website http://www.arielvineyards.com/about_faq.html#4

Do ARIEL wines contain any alcohol?
It is physically impossible to remove 100% of the alcohol from a fermented beverage. The legal definition of a non-alcoholic beverage requires a product to contain less than 1/2 of 1% of alcohol. ARIEL non-alcoholic wines contain less alcohol than most fresh squeezed orange juice!

You don't have to refer to me to one maker's wine, and then make conclusions that ALL WINES contain some little alcohol. This does not make sense.

zebudaya:
Quote from: zebudaya on Yesterday at 10:58:07 PM
"Every man serves the good wine first, and when men have drunk freely, then that which is poorer; you have kept the good wine until now.” (John 2:10, NASB).
You said How does this justify drinking of alcohol? well my point was that nobody would say oh you bring out the bad orange juice first, and when men have drunk freely, then that which is poorer; you have kept the good orange juice until now

I don't know how this still justifies taking of alcohol.

zebudaya:
goodguy [/b]You also mentioned you didn't know if Jesus drank the wine well forget about that check this out

[b]"For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and
you say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of Man came eating and drinking,
and you say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax
collectors and "sinners."'" (Luke 7:33-34)

somebody is going to say he was drinking water, somebody else is going to say what is drinking
satisfied!!!

You don't have to misquote the scriptures to justify your own point of view. I'm glad 4get_me already explained the difference between wine and alcohol.

zebudaya:
Jesus even tasted alchohol on the cross, oh I bet he is in hell now right kimba, goodguy, and all

John 9:29 Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put [it] upon hyssop, and put [it] to his mouth.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

vin·e·gar (vĭn'ĭ-gər) pronunciation
n.

1. An impure dilute solution of acetic acid obtained by fermentation beyond the alcohol stage
Wine

First of all, you have to note the condition under which Jesus took alcohol. Remember he was to bear the sins of all humanity. It was not his will to do it, but he had no choice. Now, that is a totally different case entirely from what we are discussing right now. Please stop misinterpreting the Bible to suit your own purpose.

zebudaya:
"Every man serves the good wine first, and when men have drunk freely, then that which is poorer; you have kept the good wine until now.” (John 2:10, NASB).

How does this justify drinking of alcohol?

zebudaya:
It's a free world
Why is it that every one who converts brings out the bible and wants to take the rest of us along, if you think drinking is evil stop. leave it alone and leave me alone!
otherwise drink on! cheers! in fact drink to me!

As a matter of fact, no one is holding you in any manner.  I think we're only rubbing minds here on a delicate issue.  Me thinks you're feeling guilty.


@Those using Jesus' first miracle as a justification:

1. Remember the Bible was not originally written in English. Therefore, 'wine' might have been the best English word to use to describe the drink that Jesus actually changed from water. My point: Jesus actually, might not have changed water into what we all take today as wine.

2. Even if it was wine actually, what makes you so sure it was alcoholic?  Remember not all wines are alcoholic.

zebudaya:
@babymine even the wines bottled as non-alchoholic wine have alchohol in them only in very little quantities anything that does not have alchohol in it is fruit juice. do the research

I really wonder where you got this fact from.

Also, Kimba made a very sensible point when he said: "Remember the Bible says, they drank, meaning the people at the wedding drank the "high quality", enjoyed themselves, celebrated with the Bride and groom, and all of them still knew their way back to their different homes".

If actually the wine was alcoholic, I believe they all must have gone home drunk, afterall, they drunk freely. 


BTW, it was not recorded anywhere in that chapter that Jesus had a taste, talkless of a drink, out of the wine.

snazzydawn:
cele cele cele, ,.

hmmmm,I have no opinion

The topic says "Experience and Opinion". If you got none, then you don't need to post at all.

And please, don't give me the 'I-have-the-right-to-post-anywhere-I-like' reply. Thanks.

@Kimba, you're the man. May you continue to grow in wisdom.

Bros Medube, did you read my first post on this thread? Wassup na??

Softee:
No, but i have enough knowledge to know these things.

I reserve my comments then . . . till u get married

Sure man. July 10 for Life!

@People:

The guy has been listening to it, probably he even has the CD, but he doesn't get to hear what is being said (same with me), so pls help with the LYRICS, not "go and buy the CD".

Ewo, if you help me see Ego

Make you tell I don go

She don leave me and so,

[I don't know the rest ]

Mine are:

c0dec (106), femade05 (40), cutetolu (19), kemji (17), papken (23), auwal (19), metridim (22), Efenuabor (30), jamaun (20), asjohn (22), Nnado (37), ethiogurl (16), lanreJesus (26)

ferdimako:
Some folks submitted their forms last Thursday.

I went to the JAMB office today at Ikoyi and I tell you, some people were just buying their forms today.  I won't be surprised if some are just going to buy and fill theirs on Thursday or even Friday.

Softee, are you married?

Let me just quickly clear things up here.

There is C & S, which is further subdivided into Aladura, etc.  They all wear shoes, including red clothings or girdles/loins.  They also use coloured candles.

There is Celica (or is it Selika?).  Their practises are almost the same as those of Celestial church.  They also do not wear shoes.  But on their soutana, they have a cross on it, at the chest region.

Then, there comes the Celestial Church of Christ.  We do not wear shoes, we neither wear red nor use coloured candles.  We only use white candles.

I think there are still other white garment churches, but these are the only ones I know of.  So, please, please and please, DO NOT CONFUSE CELE WITH OTHER WHITE GARMENT CHURCHES.

Thank you.

she rocks: @ Good guy, would you kindly tell me the difference between Cele, Cherubim & Seraphim and Aladura ?

To the best of my knowledge, Cherubim&Seraphim and Aladura are the same, while Cele is a different church entirely.  This is more like asking what the difference is between Deeper life and RCCG.  Obviously, they are two different churches.

---

alheri: @goodguy, you seem to have gotten my post very very wrongly.I don't really have any position on this cele issue, I was only sharing a friend's experience and thats what almost everyone is doing.

What excatly did I get wrong?

alheri: I believe I also have the right to mention the former AGF, because bad egg or not, he is in a position of leadership in your church, thus my(and others I know) experiences with him will definately affect my view of your church. You can go look for anyone who was in the AGF's office while he was there and ask them their opinions of him.Apart from bringing out his BIG BLACK BIBLE to conduct a prayer meeting every morning, what does his life and relationship with people around him say about our savior Christ? I didnt have to mention the AGF to make a case here because some people's personal experiences on this thread are enough.If my pastor or deacon drinks and womanises, everyone has the right to use their attitudes to judge the church and congregation as a whole.

They have the 'right' to use their attitudes to judge the church, but it is not 'right' to do so.

alheri: Like I keep saying on and on and again, I am not saying celes are bad/evil people, all am saying is allow people to share their experiences.if there arent many people who go to cele on Nairaland to share there "good" experiences, then allow those with the bad ones to share thiers.

No one here has said people should not share their experiences. What we're only against is, you using one bad experience in a random parish to label the whole church as bad.

---

owo: So what justification is there for a 'spiritual leader' to go and bath a grown up lady/woman/mother in the lagoon everytime he feels there is need to do so?

I've never seen or experienced this since I was born into CCC.  I will personally shoot any 'spiritual leader' that tries that with my mother or sister. I guess you've been watching too many Nigerian films lately.

owo: If prayer be the master key, how come the beach  and lagoon fron all over lagos is littered with Cele? What is so special about these locations if the water and bath has no meaning?

Ask God why he directs us there.  You should get answers if you're serious.

---

Ndipe: @Owo, I agree with you. I find it very disturbing that any religion would advocate spiritual rituals in the middle of the night at the stream/river. Such rituals are associated with fetishishm.

We do not offer rituals or sacrifices of any sort, neither is any spiritual work done in the middle of the night. Most of them are usually done in the evening, because that is when most people are usually chanced.

Ndipe: I am completely against it, likewise the burning of candles, incense and all that.

But God is not against it.

Ndipe: And some white garment churches, I know for a fact do practise animal sacrifices.

I hope you know there are different white garment churches, including those you watch in Naija movies.

I guess he's implying that we only party and do some festival stuffs instead of preaching the word.

owo: Specifically, what is right about
1. Do not eat pork or crawling animals

They are regarded as unclean animals, hence, we're forbidden to eat them.

owo: 2. Do not wear Red or black apparel (except for professional reasons)

Looking at this from the spiritual realm, 'Red' on its own signifies danger (and anything related to it), while 'black' signifies tribulation. However, this does not mean if you wear any of those, you will go to hell.

owo: In addition?
3. Why should someone wear soutana, at all?
6. Why must people walk around barefooted?

That was how it was ordained from above. Different strokes for different folks.

owo: 4. Why should there be beating in the name of deliverance?

I really do not know. I don't think this a normal practise in the Celestial church.

owo: 5. Why must men and women be bathed in the river (possibly by a 'more spiritual soul') periodically?

Bathing in the river is more of actually a spiritual thing. God does His works in different ways. One thing he will ask Mr. A to pray for, He can ask Mr. B to fast 7 days for the same thing.

owo: 7. Why must the WORD be replaced by 'Jamboree'?

Is it?

4real:
Well greed for your information i already had bad blood for cele b/4 my woman dump me for your misrable church, you and you something i don't feel bad about it, why cause she does not love me if she did, she would not go, or my guy would you encourage your sister to be going to a different church other than the one her husband is going to, my beef is with the church and it's not just about bad experiences but the manner in which things are done in cele, in all my life as a human being i have met only one sound cele man (when i say sound i mean in the bible) he knows the word why cause he worships at daystar during the week, i never said you don't worship chirst, simple part of what am saying is that church is not about coming every sunday to dance and burn candles, you ruin peoples lifes can you imagine that, i really don't have to tell you how many cele churches i have gone to ask rubby how many cele churches she has had to change to and still changing to

I'm not surprised rubby is choosing the church over you, considering the post you made earlier (first paragraph).  Obviously, you are your own very problem.  You keep finding fault with every Cele church you go, when you've clearly implied that you are the one that commits those faults.  Settle down in one place, my brother, and give your life a meaning.

alheri:
Take goodguy for example, I've related to him for some time now on Nairaland, and I've always thought of him as a nice guy. Knowing he goes to cele now is making me experience some feelings of reservation towards him. Not because of him personally but because of the general idea I have about cele and from my experiences with people from cele.

You don't have to feel anything towards me.  I'm everly as good as my name says.

alheri:
Also, I mentioned the former AGF because I've met him a couple of times and I also know he goes to cele and is in a position of leadership in the church. So my opinions of the him as a person,having in mind his position in the cele church will affect my opinions of the church and people in general, get my drift? I wasnt trying to start any thing, I just wanted to share my friend's experience.

In the midst of good eggs, you will always find the bad ones (that's if at all they are actually bad, and not just you trying to bring out the supposed 'badness' in them). It's just very unfortunate and saddening that it is that bad ones that surface the most. It will shock you to know the bad ones in Cele are very very few, compared to the good ones. (Believe it or not).

4real: ya tell me something, the doctrine in cele is bad, i know for sure from the bible that if you don't knock the door the right way you don't enter, i have said it, stop saying other churches do so and so we all know but why is it that cele's own is the most. i beg clean up your acts

Which of the doctrines in Cele is bad?  Is it. . .

DO NOT:

*Commit Adultery or Fornication
*Drink Alcohol, Wine and Smoke Cigarettes
*Eat Pork & Crawling Animals
*Merry-go-round at night
*Wear transparent dress, especially for Soutana while in the Church premises
*Wear Red or Black apparel, except for professional reasons

Or which ones are you talking about? 

Also, which acts are there to clean up? Do you have any statistical facts (or any facts whatsoever, not just 'hear says') to show that Cele's bad acts are more than those of any other church?

I'm waiting. . .

alheri:
Someone I know wanted to travel out sometime and was refused visa. He appealed and went to cele for prayers before he went for his interview. Anyway, after been whipped and beaten by like six people,burning all sorts of candles and doing all knids of ritualistic stuff, he went for the interview and guess what? He was granted the visa! And before you say halleluyah, He was deported 3 weeks later.

This could have happened in any other church. Remember there are so many parishes of Cele.  In Lagos alone, We have thousands of them, not to talk of other parts of the country or even those abroad.  One bad experience in a parish does not mean the whole church should be labeled as bad. Besides, do you know what he did that made them deport him? Afterall, he was granted a visa, which was what he asked for (at least, that's a proof that we serve the living God - he answers our prayers). Why are you now blaming Cele because he was deported? Was it Cele that gave him a visa in the first place? Do you know the type of visa he was granted? Do you even know who's fault it is at all?

alheri:
From all the posts, their are more bad than good experiences. What does that tell you?

This is very normal.  But in the minds of people, in actual fact, people have experienced far more good than bad in Cele. I was born in Cele and I've never had a single bad experience. What does that tell you?

Look, Cele is a church where, what you ask is what you get. Ask all the members what made them members today (those that were not born in Cele), and you will be surprised at how many good expriences they have had during their stay in the church. For those that have had bad experiences, it's either they are looking in the wrong place or they simply should check themselves well and try to find out where they went wrong, instead of lamenting, "Cele is this, Cele is that". May God forgive you all. (Amen).

alheri:
I am sorry to have to add this, but the former accountant general of the federation goes to cele. Am sure you know who am talking about, because he's on the cele board of trustees. But he is the stingiest(hope am right with the spelling), meanest man I've ever come across. He practically has got no human sympathy. And there is this aura about him thats just not right. People are just expressing their opinions about cele,same as you.

He is a human being.  Anyone can be stingy or mean.  The church you attend does not determine your level of generousity or sympathetic nature at all. Besides, someone who is stingy to you might be generous to others. The fact that he didn't sympathise with a particular person does not mean he doesn't have human sympathy. Pls, stop attributing things to Cele unnecessarily, as these things are normal everywhere else.

[quote author=hot-angel link=topic=9862.msg283496#msg283496 date=1144706100]*coughs*![/quote]You would have expired by then.

Medube, pls reserve her for me. I really don't mind waiting for the next 20 yrs.

Don't make me repeat myself! U.I. is the best in Nigeria!!!

On the assessments for all the universities in Nigeria, PAU came second with 7.63 points after University of Ibadan with 5.53 points. University of Lagos came third with 7.80 points while Obafemi Awolowo Univerity,Ile-Ife came forth with 7.95 points.

http://www.lbs.edu.ng/fmba_news.php#3

Do you see their ears pierced?