₦airaland Forum

HND IS OUT DATED

NATE as the only HND holders association is happy that government is borrow a leaf from a country like Japan whose philosophy and objective of education is, 'aggressive survival technology and effective use of adapted technology', that is useful to humanity.

Developed countries of the world do not believe in this old style of middle level slaves. Applied courses in Canada and USA are never called middle level. The practice whereby the polytechnics award HND is outdated in Africa; South Africa change from HND to B.Tech in 1996 and Ghana in 2005, and no British colonized African countries offer HND again.

Some Nigerian ministers and professors obtained their degrees from British polytechnic.

Tertiary institutions abroad afford HND holders from this country admission for post-graduate studies without any discrimination. The middle level disaster was inherited from the British which computer world has eliminated.

The British government scrapped HND education years back, because the purpose was defeated and replaced with degrees, old ideas of master and slave drags British back ward, USA today is helping them to put the British ideas on wheel.

Nigeria cannot afford to remain the only country in Africa with HND and still looking for paid employment that requires middle level celebration of passing papers around the offices.

Nigeria wants to produce those that can use their hands. And be able to work in another country, Nigeria need to grow technologically and be able to work elsewhere with globally acceptable certificate, HND is never known in USA Or Canada.

Right now some Federal Ministries and Parastatals are gathering data for the next promotion exercise but the HND holders on SGL 14 are completely excluded. We do not know why Middle level slaves are still wanted when those in the streets with HND are not getting jobs.

It has been a long drawn battle from NATE because of the manner of job placement, promotion prospects and the practice of placing university degree graduates over and above HND holders from university or polytechnic even with additional qualification. This new life for HND holders, took many unawares.

We really support the effort of the government for phasing out the HND from our education.

Over the years, there has been a lot of segregation in the labour market between polytechnic HND and university graduates. (Note that the polytechnic middle level manpower stops at ND, and Universities too had some HND courses apart from Bsc, Msc and PhD) why should the polytechnic HND graduates play second fiddle to the university degree graduates? The HND has always been here with us, what has been the contribution of those falling in love with it now, to reduce the stress of HND holders? Although the change has not gone down well to some as they still argued that the colleges were established to provide mid-level manpower for the country.

Now that government has given approval for polytechnics and colleges of technology to award degrees they should support the move .

Yakubu (NBTE boss) had urged all the heads of polytechnics and colleges of technology to prepare ground and brace up to the challenges of awarding Bachelor of Technology (B. Tech) in their institutions as approved by the government. Inside the same government instrument that approved the award of degrees by the polytechnics, made HND to be equal to a degree, removing the ceiling on the salary grade level and rank that holders of HND could attain in the public service, and made the Ordinary National Diploma (OND) the new minimum entry point into the service.

Nevertheless, many polytechnics and colleges of technology have initiated a flurry of activities to accommodate the directive from the Executive Secretary of the National Board for Technical Education (NBTE) Dr. Nuru Yakubu.

NATE has advocated for the parity of the degree certificate and the Higher National Diploma, and also for the approval to award degrees. We in NATE are so grateful to the government that the struggle for award of degrees by the polytechnics has finally been granted; we are in hurry to see the implementation of the federal government's good gesture towards the polytechnics.

@ lady
Do you know that carmelily is aged 102, May I advise you ignore her and please stop arguing with a critic on Catholicism?

HND IS OUT DATED

NATE as the only HND holders association is happy that government is borrow a leaf from a country like Japan whose philosophy and objective of education is, 'aggressive survival technology and effective use of adapted technology', that is useful to humanity.

Developed countries of the world do not believe in this old style of middle level slaves. Applied courses in Canada and USA are never called middle level. The practice whereby the polytechnics award HND is outdated in Africa; South Africa change from HND to B.Tech in 1996 and Ghana in 2005, and no British colonized African countries offer HND again.

Some Nigerian ministers and professors obtained their degrees from British polytechnic. Tertiary institutions abroad afford HND holders from this country admission for post-graduate studies without any discrimination. The middle level disaster was inherited from the British which computer world has eliminated.

The British government scrapped HND education years back, because the purpose was defeated and replaced with degrees, old ideas of master and slave drags British back ward, USA today is helping them to put the British ideas on wheel.

Nigeria cannot afford to remain the only country in Africa with HND and still looking for paid employment that requires middle level celebration of passing papers around the offices.

Nigeria wants to produce those that can use their hands. And be able to work in another country, Nigeria need to grow technologically and be able to work elsewhere with globally acceptable certificate, HND is never known in USA Or Canada.

Right now some Federal Ministries and Parastatals are gathering data for the next promotion exercise but the HND holders on SGL 14 are completely excluded. We do not know why Middle level slaves are still wanted when those in the streets with HND are not getting jobs.

It has been a long drawn battle from NATE because of the manner of job placement, promotion prospects and the practice of placing university degree graduates over and above HND holders from university or polytechnic even with additional qualification. This new life for HND holders, took many unawares.

We really support the effort of the government for phasing out the HND from our education.

Over the years, there has been a lot of segregation in the labour market between polytechnic HND and university graduates. (Note that the polytechnic middle level manpower stops at ND, and Universities too had some HND courses apart from Bsc, Msc and PhD) why should the polytechnic HND graduates play second fiddle to the university degree graduates? The HND has always been here with us, what has been the contribution of those falling in love with it now, to reduce the stress of HND holders? Although the change has not gone down well to some as they still argued that the colleges were established to provide mid-level manpower for the country.

Now that government has given approval for polytechnics and colleges of technology to award degrees they should support the move.

Yakubu(NBTE boss) had urged all the heads of polytechnics and colleges of technology to prepare ground and brace up to the challenges of awarding Bachelor of Technology (B. Tech) in their institutions as approved by the government. Inside the same government instrument that approved the award of degrees by the polytechnics, made HND to be equal to a degree, removing the ceiling on the salary grade level and rank that holders of HND could attain in the public service, and made the Ordinary National Diploma (OND) the new minimum entry point into the service.

Nevertheless, many polytechnics and colleges of technology have initiated a flurry of activities to accommodate the directive from the Executive Secretary of the National Board for Technical Education (NBTE) Dr. Nuru Yakubu.

NATE has advocated for the parity of the degree certificate and the Higher National Diploma, and also for the approval to award degrees. We in NATE are so grateful to the government that the struggle for award of degrees by the polytechnics has finally been granted; we are in hurry to see the implementation of the federal government's good gesture towards the polytechnics.

PROFESSIONAL TECHNOLOGISTS (ENGINEERING)

What are they in South Africa?

They are first and foremost persons who are registered with the Engineering Council of South Africa (ECSA), as Professional Technologists (Engineering).

In order to register, the applicant must provide proof of having obtained a qualification at a Technikon (POLYTECHNIC) in South Africa and a period of practical experience in industry, acceptable to ECSA. Qualifications obtained elsewhere will also be considered. Acceptance for registration is at the discretion of ECSA.

Professional Technologists (Engineering) are required to exercise mature judgments in the workplace and expected to have the ability to conceive, identify and optimize solutions to complex engineering problems. Above all, they are prepared to accept full professional responsibility for their engineering decisions.

In its Constitution and Bylaws, the South African Association of Consulting Engineers (SAACE) fully recognizes the status of the Professional Technologist and no distinction is made between PrEng and PrTech(Eng). The SAACE's primary requirement for a firm to become and remain a member is that at least 50% of its principals shall be consulting engineers. The definition of a consulting engineer being a professional engineer or a professional technologist who is registered in terms of the Act, is practicing and, as his / her principal occupation, is rendering a professional engineering service to others.

What work do they do?

Engineering technologists apply their expertise in any combination of the engineering functions in all branches of engineering. These functions include conceptualizing, design, project or construction management, commissioning, measurement and testing, quality assurance, costing and estimating, production, the collection and analysis of data, maintenance, teaching, research and the modification and development of technologies for the solution of complex engineering problems. They may work on their own or can be part of a team.

What positions do they occupy?

They may be:

· Consultants in their own right or members of firms of engineering consultants,



· A senior manager in central, provincial or local government, or in private practice,



· A contractor,



· An advisor in a company, practicing a high level of technical expertise.



Official International Engineering Glossary

http://www.engology.com/enggglossary.htm

Engology * means: International Professional ' Engineering Science/Technology '.

* Engineer * means: An Approved International ' Graduate/Professional Engineer ' - (Er).

* Engologist * means: An Approved International ' Engineering Technologist ' - (Egt).

* ETechnician * means: An Approved International ' Engineering Technician ' - (ETn).

WHY NIGERIAN ENGINEERS MUST LEAVE TECHNOLOGISTS ALONE

http://www.ipet.co.za/faq.htm

International Engineering Technologist (IntET) Register

This Register is governed by the Engineering Technologists' Mobility Forum, which consists of the national engineering organisations of Canada, Hong Kong, Ireland, New Zealand, South Africa, and UK.

Entry to the Register, which began operation in late 2007 - the UK section of the Register opened on 1st January 2008 - is open to engineers who:

· have an academic qualification equivalent to an engineering technology degree/diploma/certificate



· have seven years post-graduation experience



· have two years in responsible charge of engineering work



be maintaining continuing professional development

26 Member of COREN = 23NSE + 1NATE + 1NISET + 1NAEC

Nigerian Engineers focus was only on CIVIL ENGINEERING contracts and civil engineers form highest percentage of NSE about 70%. Is this the only engineering discipline needed? A lot of energy was spent by NSE/COREN leadership of the past to put the vocational training under the carpet, when the health sectors allowed more council for Pharmacists, Nurses and Laboratory group. Only COREN under the control of NSE was in place with the sole aim of fighting the YABA boys.

I spent all my time trying to be relevant doing NSE graduate exam as with others trying to cross over with PGD. Now that I can call myself a registered engineer my stamp became useless as Agricultural engineer what do I need the stamp for?

For the past 32 years the leadership of NATE was fighting for recognition over the heavy weight of NSE, no time for their national role, NATE took NSE/COREN to court this affected both NSE and NATE along the line they all left the nation building and the white men came back, Today most of NSE members are drafted from NATE aimlessly just to have MNSE in front of their name, thereby swelling the NSE population in Engineering family; 23 FNSE are COREN council members representing the 17,000 NSE Engineers in COREN out of 26 available seat with only one for the 400 registered technologists, one each for Technicians and craft men. What a balance.

We in engineering family should stop deceiving ourselves; we should stop blaming the leadership. We are aware that all Nigerian engineers are fighting for their purses, not the love for the profession. Why do I have to cross over to engineer cadre? As Nigerian firms demand skilled workers.

Nigeria needs skilled manual workers as never before. Some young Nigerians refuse to become bricklayers, mechanic etc, Fiona Ledger a BBC reporter in Lagos saw it all, and he knew that Communications, electricity and power are crying out for upgrading and better maintenance.

But the idea of a vocational education is looked down upon by many young people just because of discriminations against this group of professionals that was dedicated to putting young Nigerians through vocational courses and preparing them for jobs in the office and on the building site. Today Technologists a member of engineering family feel discriminated against, they considered that saying in this group will not be enough if they are to compete effectively in the market place for jobs.

The technological area was known as Middle-level disaster no wonder parent do not want their children in there "Parents will come and tell you they just want their children to be there for one year because they missed university admission for that year and don't want their children sitting around at home." Says a Rector of a Polytechnic. Now we have nobody in the technological field. Can the engineers alone cope as technician, craftsman as well as his role as engineer? No wonder buildings are collapsing. We need to work harder for the government to take us serious; Engineers should be honest with other member of the family. "No gratification in this project" should be followed to letter

It is a pity for those that can not seek for the truth.
Keep to your protesting faith.

carmelily:
are you for real??

You wan yab and you no dey hear English

@naomijt

*sista, i like that your reply for class o. on Paul's sufferings.

I am a YORUBA man and a PhD holder in Engineering. I obtained a post graduate Diploma in Hydraulics from an English University and Top manager I do not need to hear English because English people refused to hear my language.

Sex is a known language in USA. Please leave catholic priests alone. As one time lecturer in a Seminary we understand we should leave people like you alone. But you need not to be a fool since silence is the best answer for fools who just love making noise. I know some people just want to use nairaland to kill loneliness

pilgrim.1:
@Hnd-holder,

Long time no see, no hear, no read. . ! It's all good.

Be careful small-small. Catholics did not "write" the Bible - unless you're saying that Moses and the prophets were 'Catholics'.

Catholic church is not the same as Roman catholic church. We still have the traditional catholic.
Pilgrim 1 I miss u send your ID to me I love to contact you. Please note that the old testament scriptures were quoted freely in the new. All the scriptural records are with the catholic and the Jews. Christianity was viewed as fulfilment of Jewish religion.


.

naomijt:
@ Lady,

You are really off point on a whole lot of things. folks here have tried correcting you but you seem adamant on your believe. The Roman Catholic church is not and cannot be the TRUE CHURCH OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST. God bless!

Take fanatics away from here and search from the truth the truth will set you free.

The Bible is a library were catholics kept the scriptural records written in scrolls . The scrolls were turned into books when Printing press came around the 14th century. Catholics wrote the Bible from the traditions.


After a child or two you can start practicing celibacy like the Krishna consciousness people. It is not catholics early practice but was introduced to keep the priests from worldly things.

There is no spiritual sin with sex. People were trying to bring moral into religion and they interpret the bible to their on thinking.
Sex has been with us and nobody is clean from this effect. Rev. Fathers too are human being they are free to have sex because they became priest base on their free will. If they are tempted they can fail but that can never stop them from their role. They can always confess their sins.
Remember the protestant bible was a summary of only things that Luther felt are good for their teaching.
Oh men of little faith keep your ignorant. Read and search for the truth, never be shallow of knowledge.

@carmelily
On bahave of the entire catholic church We are sorry for you, that you slept with our priest at your tender Age. Did you enjoy it? He did not force you did he? I hope you were still virgin then? Did he invited you or you went to the house of a man without a wife to tempt him.
He failed and enjoy the bush meat. Why are you now asking for apology?

Once a priest confesses his sin is forgiven.
They are clean.
You need to confess your own sin of temptation.

@carmelily

Let me size you , no weigh stay blessed

Yes we are now talking.

Prostetants too have bad history on TIthe

The Tithe war

The Tithe War in Ireland (1831-36) refers to a series of periodic skirmishes and violent incidents connected to resistance to the obligation of Catholics in Ireland to pay tithes for the upkeep of the Church of Ireland.
The first clash of the Tithe war took place on 3 March 1831 in Graiguenamanagh, county Kilkenny when a force of 120 armed police forcibly took possession of cattle belonging to a Roman Catholic priest, in lieu of Tithes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tithe_War
The British Government was alarmed by several aspects of this massacre: by the fact that the order to fire was given by an anglican  clergyman, by the pittance involved in relation to the bloodshed, and by the fact that the people had withstood several volleys and at least one charge by the troops without breaking.
Tithe War is the forgotten story of almost 100,000 tithe-paying farmers and landowners whose fight for a just and equitable end to an archaic tax spanned the inter-war years of the 20th century.
The tithe system brought ruin to thousands of small farming families, already in the depths of agricultural depression, and opened a bitter and lasting gulf between rural parishes and their anglican clergy.
It affected many parts of England and Wales indiscriminately, but it was the Great Tithes of East Anglia and the hop tithes of Kent that gave rise to the leaders of the tithe-payers’ revolt.
They took on the Establishment long before it was fashionable or easy, and their persistence and dedication to the cause is only now being recognised.


Everybody including you and me had bad sides and what is kept and known only to us. Those reasons are not enough to kill catholic faith.

pedophilic priests

How about non- priests in USA?

In Desmond Morris's classic book on human behavior, The Naked Ape, reports that homosexual behavior is often "seen in situations where the ideal sexual object (a member of the opposite sex) is unavailable. This applies in many groups of animals."

Morris goes on to state: "Similar situations occur with high frequency in our own species and the response is much the same. If either males or females cannot for some reason obtain sexual access to their opposite members, they will find sexual outlets in other ways."'Man is a loving animal, and he is going to love whatever he is near.' The sexual histories of farm boys frequently recorded passing involvements with animals."
the same type of problem occurred in society at large. For instance, in 1254 Louis IX banned prostitution in France and prescribed harsh penalties for it. But he soon was impelled to lift the ban, after receiving reports of increasing numbers of "lecherous attacks" on wives and daughters. So he went from banning prostitution to regulating it.


The word comes from the Greek paidophilia pais ( "child" and philia ( "love, friendship". Paidophilia was coined by Greek poets

He gave the following characteristics:

The sexual interest is toward pre-pubescent youth only.
This interest does not extend to the first signs of pubic hair.
The sexual interest is toward pre-pubescent youths only and does not include teenagers.
The sexual interest remains over time.
Adults sexually attracted to pre-pubescent youths were placed into three categories by Krafft-Ebing:

a.) pedophile
b.) surrogate
c.) sadistic

You have a point here
What of homosexuals who are not priest?
what do you think is the solution?

Catholic priest is still better than fraudsters in the name of the lord they still get involved with teenagers too.

@~Lady~

By their fruit we shall know them. Please leave carmelily alone to her opinion she is bitter with the catholics, who knows may be she was dating "them" I mean the missed road priests of USA.
Psychologically somebody needs a Doctor here

@carmelily

You never look like somebody who seriously want to be president by 2011.
Why are you just blaming Moses for making a bronze snake in the wilderness to safe the Israelites. It is too late to blame David for dancing before the ark of the lord. You know nothing about the Bible cant you just close your eyes in shame?

Better than a pent rascally one man church of the pretenders

A wetern Nigeria PRIVATE polytechnic. What about it?

@ Ishmael
To degree holders masters is not automatic. But MBA is for all very expensive.

@enitan2002

enitan2002:
@ HND-Holder,
what will be the next step you will advice, because am contemplating of putting in for this distance learning education of either south-African universities or UK schools, but the thing there is that their admission is not that reliable, help me.

And what do you think we hooking up sometime on grailland, and discuss several issues.

Do not try to go to all those distance learning they are not recognised. Go to yaba tech FUTA PGD is okay. Come to UI their MBA is OKAY same as that of FUTA

See you on grailland.

Yes. Like PGD Education is professional.
Academic PGD was for those with 3rd class pass in the University. You must score 60% before you can be allowed for Masters and you must have a Prof who will supervise the Project.

whereas Professional PGD careless about the research content. Even some Msc are purely professional.

@ Ishmael
Not all Bsc holder get to Perm sec.
Not all Bsc can have Msc.
not all Masters can get to PhD.
Some masters are Professional Terminal Master.
HND + approved ACADEMIC PGD 60% + Masters(academic) research gives a PhD.

The polytechnic in Nigeria was made to study only professional courses. The PGD to correct the so call deficiency was approved for HND in 1992. You can go for Masters in professional line like MBA. without PGD. but you can not have academic degrees without PGD academic. if you now obtain PGD professional that will now be terminal Poly will now be having the polytechnic master s and PhD in Technology.

Yes they are right. Msc is master of science not master of technology. Anybody can run PGD not all can get to masters. We have both professional and academic PGD.

The HND were trained badly by the B.sc. Now polytechnic will produce its own lecturers says NBTE

@ISMAEL
HND are employed as lectures now to teach ND only polytechnic graduate will lecture the B.tech
@ first lady
This starts with the polytechnic that have the man power in Engineering and Sciences

student with 5 credit +ND

No more brake and break between ND and HND now B.Tech

@ first -lady
That is the truth you are free to ask me more question

NBTE agree with us and they have adopted it. This is the B.Tech, M.tech and Polytechnic PhD. Is for real

Yes this is what we are asking for now.

Run run runfaster away as far as you can from polytechnic and HND Be warned


NIGERIAN ASSOCIATION OF TECHNOLOGISTS
IN ENGINEERING COMMUNIQUE
              on

REMOVAL OF CAREER CEILING ON HND HOLDERS:
The Nigerian Association of Technologists in Engineering being the professional body comprised mainly of HND (Engineering) holders commends the Federal Government for accepting the recommendations in Section 6.2 of the recently published White Paper on the Report of the Presidential Committee on the Consolidation of Emoluments in the Public Sector. The removal of “the undue dichotomy and ceiling on the Salary Grade Level/Rank attainable by Higher National Diploma holders” in the civil service has been the thrust of NATE’s struggle since 1976 and finally gives due recognition to the Higher National Diploma as a professional qualification. The Association appeals to the Federal, State and Local Governments to commence the implementation of this policy without delay so that it is achieved on schedule in the medium term.
on  T
HE TERTIARY INSTITUTIONS: The conference noted that the number of graduates produced by the technological institutions is a far cry from that required for our technological growth. To produce the right calibre of professionals for the actualisation of the VISION 20/2020 of the Federal Government, the conference recommends that HND holders should be engaged and designated as lecturers in the polytechnic system. Conference further recommended that polytechnics and Universities of Technology should be better funded and equipped. Participants also opined that polytechnics should focus on their areas of strength and observed that with the new policy to replace the HND with BTech. Our Polytechnics and Universities of Technology should revise their curricula and make them more relevant.
on
TECHNICAL & VOCATIONAL EDUCATION:
This sector is not receiving the level of encouragement required for it to play its role as the feeder to the Technological Educational sector and the producer of the technical and artisan manpower for the actualisation of Vision 20/2020. Conference therefore recommends that the various levels of government should encourage this sector by investing heavily in its development.
on
  MANPOWER UTILISATION:
Participants called on the Federal Government to fully utilize indigenous engineering manpower in the design and execution of engineering contracts as no nation can attain technological self dependence with the use of expatriate manpower. The common practice of awarding engineering contracts to non-engineering professionals is a major cause of the collapse of our infrastructures – industries, buildings, roads, etc.
Professionally registered HND holders should be certified as consultants. The conference called on the Federal Government to sponsor a well-researched bill for the amendment of COREN Decree to grant full professional status to HND holders. NATE will forward its proposals in this regard to the Federal Government.

Nairaland, thank you. as for me I wish to thank SEUN.
even PhD holders with HND backgroung still felt the HND thing.

http://www.thisdayonline.com/news.php?w=on&q=HND

FG to Phase Out HND Soon
08.25.2008

The Federal Government said weekend that the planned phasing out of the Higher National Diploma (HND) from the polytechnics would commence soon.
"The National Board for Technical Education (NBTE), has already shortlisted polytechnics that are qualified for the take-off," said Hajiya Aishatu Dukku, Minister of State for Education.
Dukku told the News Agency of Nigeria (NAN) in Abuja that the HND would be replaced with the Bachelor of Technology (B. Tech) degree.
"The polytechnics would begin to award B. Tech degrees to their graduates at the end of their courses instead of the HND. The essence is to strengthen polytechnic education and make the institutions concentrate on their primary mandate, as well as increase access to tertiary education," she said.
Dukku said the plan was part of government's efforts to enhance development of Technical Education as a prelude for the attainment of the 2020 Vision.
The minister, who went round to supervise Saturday's Monotechnics, Polytechnics Colleges of Education Examination (MPCE) in the FCT, attributed the large turn out of candidates to the development.
320,000 candidates sat for the test conducted by the Joint Admission and Matriculation Board (JAMB) nationwide.

HND the heat is on