₦airaland Forum

Abdulsalam20: DERAILING AGAIN WHAT YOU POSTED IS EVEN PROVING THAT MUHAMMAD DIDNT AUTHORED THE BIBLE BUT IT IS FROM GOD IF IT IS FROM MUHAMAD HE WILL HAVE MENTION HIS NAME THOUSAND TIMES IN THE QURAN
{He is only a servant whom We blessed and We made him an example to the children of
Israel.} (Az-Zukhruf 43:59)
THERE ARE MANY PROPHET THAT PERFORM MIRACLE MORE THAN JESUS IN THE BIBLE I WILL CONTINUE LATER READ MY NEXT POST

Not derailing; just giving the full text of what I posted earlier for the benefit of those who may not be able to read from the website url provided.

How could Mohammed have authoured the Bible when he lived long after it was written?

But one thing is certain from the quran: Mohammed ordered that writings of Christ as his own forerunner must be honored by every true Muslim. He said those who disbelieve the "prophets" before him (Jesus inclusive), were just as the infidels. When a person who claims divine inspiration authenticates one who came before him, I believe that he is saying that the authority of that before is from God. When he later on goes on to say things that contradict this same earlier authority he has authenticated, which do we believe? The former, who is acclaimed to be greater than all others or the latter who contradicts the authority he recognises? Not only that, Mohammed authenticated Christ as One who has the Spirit of God, Holy (and Pure) Son, Savior and Messiah. As a Muslim therefore, you have to believe in Christ as Savior to be saved.

Now, that takes us back to my question, "what would you say about the honor accorded to Christ in the quran which gives Him qualities above all other prophets and at places Him on a perfect status which is comparable only with perfection of God?"

OjeriakhiVictor: Guy just keep quiet..

Thanks for coming in. Same thing we have been saying. You may want to go back into the thread and see how we treated your submissions earlier. That these happened in the OT during the laws of Moses does not mean it should continue in the NT which offers the law of grace. This is the 21st Century.

Hitler did not commit his heinous crimes in obedience to the teachings of Christ, so it's irrelevant to make him a Christian example. The same way, we are enjoining Muslims to condemn the attrocities of the extremists so that we can have some peace in the world. Or would anyone rather have the opposite?

Read all about it here:

mongsexpressive..com.es/2014/08/christ-more-honored-in-koran-than.html?m=1

"Christ more honored in the Koran than Prophet Mohammed
The distinctives of the Lord Jesus-Christ in the Koran. What Does the Koran Say about Jesus?
1. Jesus was the only person to be born of a virgin,
distinguished from all humans and prophets without
any exception: "She said, How shall I have a son,
whom no mortal has touched, neither have I been
unchased. He said, Even so thy Lord has said: Easy is
that for Me; and that We may appoint him a sign unto
men and a mercy from Us. It is a thing
determined."(19) (Mary 16-24).
2. Jesus Christ alone was distinguished from all humans
by being the Word of God, who is the very expression
of the Self of God end His eternal Being: "The Messiah,
Jesus son of Mary, God's Messenger, and His
Word …" (4)The Women 171; (3)House of Imran 40).
3. Jesus Christ alone emanated from the spirit of God;
for this reason He did not need a sexual, genetical
birth. "The Messiah, Jesus Son of Mary, God's
Messenger, and His Word that He committed to Mary,
and a Spirit from Him ." (4)The Women 169)
4. Jesus Christ alone, in exception to all humans, spoke
while in the cradle (19)Mary 22-32). The Koran tells us
that Christ needed no one to teach Him anything, not
even how to speak. The Bible says: "Who hath directed
the spirit of the Lord, or being His counselor hath
taught Him knowledge and showed to Him the way of
understanding." (Isaiah 40:1,13-14). Naturally, no one
can teach the One who emanated from God's Spirit for
He is the All-knowing.
5.Jesus Christ alone was distinguished from all
prophets with His infallibility and was the only one to
be singled out for His perfection; for all the prophets
had sinned, and their sins were mentioned in the
Koran. However, Christ was the only exception, for
"High honored shall be in this world and the
next." (3)House of Imran 45). Also, the Arab prophet
(El-Bukhari) testified for the perfection of Christ and
His infallibility, saying: "Satan pokes with his finger the
side of every human at birth, except Jesus, son of Mary;
when he went to poke Him, he poked the curtain."
6. Jesus Christ alone was distinguished from all others
in the sense that He was the Creator: "I will create for
you out of clay as the likeness of a bird; then I will
breathe into it and it will be a bird." (3)House of
Imran 42).
7. Jesus Christ alone was uniquely incomparable in
knowing men's secrets: "I will inform you too of what
things you eat, and what you treasure up in your
houses. Surely, in that is a sign for you if you are
believers." (3)House of Imran 48).
8. Jesus was matchless in making the miracles and the
wonders which no other could make: "And I will also
heal the blind and the leper…" (3)House of Imran 48).
9. Jesus Christ alone could raise the dead with the
word of His blessed mouth: And I will bring life to the
dead…" (3)House of Imran 48; (5)The Table 110).
10. Jesus Christ alone exclusively enjoyed the
prophetical title of "the Messiah": "The Messiah , Jesus
son of Mary, was God's Messenger, and His Word
committed to Mary…" (4)Women 169). The Old
Testament made known the real identity of the
Messiah, saying: "Behold the days come, saith the Lord,
that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a
King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute
judgement and justice in the earth… and this is the
name whereby He shall be called: THE LORD OUR
RIGHTEOUSNESS." (Jeremiah 23:5-6)
11. Jesus Christ alone exchanged responsibility of
authority with God: "And I was a witness over them,
while I remained among them; but when thou didst
take me to thy self, Thou wast Thyself the watcher
over them." (5)Table 117).
12. Jesus was the only one to become a Sign unto men
and Mercy from God (19)Mary 20) unto men who fell
under the burden and the shackles of sin; for which,
God's justice and holiness condemned them to eternal
perdition. For this reason the only Savior, who can
offer eternal salvation to men came to be a Mercy from
God.
13. Only Jesus Christ could give His followers high
honors and assurances concerning the day of
Resurrection: "I will cause thee to die, and I will raise
thee to Me, and I will purify thee of those who believe
not. I will set thy followers above the unbelievers till
the resurrection Day," (3)House of Imran 55)
14. Only Jesus will be the Judge who will come to this
world to judge the living and the dead; the Arab
prophet (El-Bukhari) confirmed this fact, saying: "The
Last Hour will not come until the Son of Mary come
down as the just Judge."
If you meditated on any of the Koran verses that
portray the Lord Jesus Christ, you find that they are
inherent attributes that are exclusively distinctive of
God; and that He did not share any of them with any
human at all. Moreover, you find that the Lord Jesus
Christ did not enjoy only one of these attributes, but He
included all of them in His blessed person, so that He
may leave no doubt concerning His deity and divinity.
The New Testament recorded that the All-mighty God
became a perfect man (something that was easy for
Him to do) and came from heaven to our earth to save
men. The Bible says: "In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with God, and the word was God …
and the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only
begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth." (John
1:1,14). Then the Bible continues the portrayal of
Christ, saying:"And without controversy great is the
mystery of godliness; He who was manifested in the
flesh, Justified in the spirit, Seen of angels, Preached
among the nations, Believed on in the world, Received
up in glory." (1 Timothy 3:16)."

Excepts from : The gospel of Christ Jesus according to saint John as reviewed by the koran and muslim scholar. BY Dr Ben Malik

ladymichael: Some people will just sit down read an article and make a case on it.that's y the white man hides information in books.

ladymichael your point is not clear, please. When the white man hides information inside a book, he apparently does not expect you to "sit down read an article and make a case on it".

How many true Muslims out there will heed the call for a just fatwa to defend their religion from the extremists? If truly you are a Muslim, and you believe in righteous jihad and that the Takfiris are not true Muslims and are damaging the image of Islam... Let's go there...

www.businessinsider.com/one-of-the-worlds-most-influential-sheiks-has-issued-a-fatw-against-isis-2014-9?utm_content=buffer90976&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

"One Of The World's Most Influential Sheiks Has Issued A Fatwā Against ISIS

GREG MCKENNA, BUSINESS INSIDER AUSTRALIA SEP. 26, 2014

As the West grapples with the increasing reach of ISIS on home soil and as random and planned acts of terrorism continue to develop, the Islamic world is not siting idly by.

Earlier this week in his speech before the United Nations, US President Barack Obama signaled out the leadership being offered by a group of Muslim clerics led by Shaykh Abdallah bin Bayyah. This group, known as the Forum for Promoting Peace in Muslim Societies, issued a very powerful Fatwā* in opposition to the actions of ISIS and as a warningto young Muslims who may be attracted to its cause.

Titled “This is Not the Path to Paradise, Response to ISIS,” the Fatwā highlights that ISISactions are against the tenets of Islam.

This is addressed to the young men who bear arms against their own nations and destroy both country and countrymen. You have abandoned all values and made enemies of the world. We call on you to pause, reflect, and heed this counsel for the sake of all who want good for our community.

It then offers four quotes from Islamic teachings before continuing with “A Statement to the Muslim Worldand its Leaders” reminding them to “Remember and Consider the Question Why?"

It is powerful stuff, and it takes aim at Fatwās that “have justified bloodshed while disregarding Islamic law’s mandates of civil obedience, respect for life, and to refrain from divisiveness, irrespective of how morally degraded a society becomes. Instead, there are inappropriate claims of engaging in jihad and addressing the ills of society without fulfilling the conditions of doing so, which has led to even more suffering.”

The full text offers guidance with an aim at returning Islam and Muslims worldwide to core values, noting there is a “pressing need to strengthen the immune system of the Muslim world against the extremism and violence that exists within it, regardless of where the violence is directed or how it began. The time is now for Muslim societies — individuals and political entities — to work together towards what is right and good and to place the higher interests of humanity and the world above personal interests.”

It ends where it began, with an entreaty to younger Muslims in the West saying they should “remain steadfast in the face of the emptyclaims and promises made before them and to live the Islamic law properly so that they will not be duped into confusing falsehood with truth. This applies, in particular, to those who do not have a command of Arabic and do not understand the language of the Qur’an.”"

(* A Fatwā in the Islamic faith is the term for the legal opinion orlearned interpretation that a qualified jurist or mufti can give on issues pertaining to the Islamic law.)

Abdulsalam20: to prove yo wrong did know that thee is an hadith that preicted them emergence of isis and that it is false
pls read it
Nu’aym ibn Hammad narrates in Al-Fitan, that the 4th
Caliph, Ali ibn Abi Talib said:
When you see the black flags, remain where you are and do
not move your hands or your feet. Thereafter there shall
appear a feeble insignificant folk. Their hearts will be like
fragments of iron. They will have the state. They will fulfil
neither covenant nor agreement. They will call to the truth,
but they will not be people of the truth. Their names will be
parental attributions, and their aliases will be derived from
towns. Their hair will be free-flowing like that of women. This
situation will remain until they differ among themselves.
Thereafter, God will bring forth the Truth through whomever
He wills .
Does this narration by Ali bin Abi Talib (k.)—that is related by
AlBukhari’s teacher (Nu’aym bin Hamad) over one thousand
two hundred years ago in his: book AlFitan—refer to the
‘Islamic State’?
When you see the black flags’: The flags of the ‘Islamic State’
are black.
‘Remain where you are’: i.e., stay where you are, O Muslims,
and do not join them.
‘And do not move your hands or your feet’: i.e. do not help
them financially or with equipment.
‘Thereafter there shall appear a feeble insignificant folk’: i.e.
‘weak’ and ‘insignificant’ in terms of understanding of
religion, morality and religious practice.
‘Their hearts will be like fragments of iron’: i.e. they will
ruthlessly kill prisoners of war and cruelly torture people.
‘They will have the state’: For almost a century, no one has
claimed to be an Islamic Caliphate other than the current
‘Islamic State’ in Iraq and the Levant.
‘They will fulfil neither covenant nor agreement’: The ‘Islamic
State’ did not fulfil its agreement with the Sha’etat tribe after
the tribe pledged allegiance to them; indeed the ‘Islamic
State’ slaughtered them by the hundreds. They also killed
journalists.
‘They will call to the truth’: The ‘Islamic State’ calls to Islam.
‘But they will not be people of the truth’: The people of the
truth are merciful. The Prophet Muhammad  said: ‘Have
mercy and you will be shown mercy.’
‘Their names will be parental attributions’: Like: ‘Abu
Muthanna’, ‘Abu Muhammad’, ‘Abu Muslim’ and so on.
‘And their aliases will be derived from towns’: Like: ‘Al-
Baghdadi’, ‘al-Zarqawi’, ‘al-Tunisi’ and so on.
‘Their hair will be free-flowing like that of women’: ‘Islamic
State’ fighters have hair precisely like thiS
AS YOU CAN SEE ISIS IS UNISLAMIC...
AND CONCERNING THE VERSE YOU POSTED U DIDNT QUOTE IT AS IT WAS QUOTED THE ONES YOU PSTED ARE ABRICATED I IMPLORE YOU TO READ TWO VERSE BACKWARD AND TWO VERSE FORWARD

I've made silent references to this many times earlier. It's about the Dijjal. You may want to resesrch further to find the El Madhi, who comes after and whose responsibility it is, according to those prophecies, to destroy the Dijjal and save the world. That is why I keep stating that if indeed, Muslims believe in those prophecies, they should never talk of any Jihad for now, but wait for the jihad of the Madhi.

But somehow, the post you referenced and quoted did not have sufficient defense from your response. Reading forward and backwards still give me same conclusions.

Also, I want you to please adress my post on the quran's adoration of Jesus above even Mohammed. You may also want to let us know why the quran says that Jesus was the only one born perfect and who lived throughout without any sin. I'm here, wondering that if anyone can be ascribed the nature of perfection, that person can be no other but God. Only God is perfect!!! What do you think?

Abdulsalam20: nice writeup

I like too... of course, minus the brickbats

Abdulsalam20: IMAGINE THE PERSON I AM ARGUING WITH SAYING SOMETHING WITH DOUBT PLS DID U READ THE POST I POSTED?.......IF YES THEN U SHOULD COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT NO COMPULSION IN RELIGION

PLEASE DID YOU KNOW THAT JESUS ORDER US TO FOLLOW THE TORAH OF MOSES ALMOST EVERYTHING THAT THE SHARIAH ESTABLISH IS SUPPIRTED BY TORAH OF MOSES
"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to
abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to
abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until
heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the
least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from
the Law until everything is accomplished. (Matthew
5:17-18) " It is quite clear from these verses from the New
Testament that Jesus peace be upon him did honor the Old
Testament and did say that every single "letter" of it has to
be honored, followed and fulfilled.
"Then Jesus said to the crowds and to
his disciples: 'The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit
in Moses' seat. So you must obey them and do everything
they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not
practice what they preach.' (Matthew 23:1-3) " We clearly
see in these verses that Jesus peace be upon him did not
prohibit for the Old Testament to be followed, but only
warned his followers to not follow it the way the current
religious leaders of the Law (the Jewish Rabies) were
following it.
THE WORLD NO MORE EXPERIENCE PEACE BECAUSE WE NO MORE FOLLOW THE WILL OF GOD WE ONLY FOLLOW OUR WISH EVEN JESUS CONFIRM THOSE LAWS

Why, sire, are you bringing this up again? What has this to do with Jesus sanctioning religious compulsion? How many wars did He fight to demonstrate that He meant to be a warrior leader? Seems more to me that we learn nothing from each other as I explained earlier that Jesus in reference to judgment is talking about the judgment executed by God, not by man through religious compulsion or jihad wars. The Torah brought laws and judgment, but Jesus came in to offer an amnesty of grace to all.We Christians live under the law of grace, not physical judgment of the Torah or jihad of quran or any physical war, and that is why all through history, the true (mark that word, true) followers of Jesus are persecuted without their fighting back physically.

Let's move forward...

Thanks Bro. I have answers to long copy and paste posts too.

malvisguy212: good qustion,just ready to read a very long note from him,the guy is adicted to copy and paste long note. In most of his post, he was calling christians antichrist, i ask him" what is christ? If you are not an antichrist, dos that mean you believe in christ?" the guy just went to copy and paste long note for me, the answer he gave me was funny, he was trying to say allah is christ.

yazach: YOU: They same way some hypocrites does. Anytime you see a good muslim trying to state his/her clear picture regarding terrorism, you see Christians with the aim of blackmailing Islam responding as if this muslims is telling lie. But I have read some of the muslims responds (regarding act of terrorism) on this particular thread that will ever support the act rather you will see Christians posting Quarnic verses and give them their suited meanings

ME: I say, that's simply human nature.

YOU: A sane and peace loving entity will never support involvement of CAN leader in the scenario even if we assumed he wasn’t aware, we are in a delicate time in this country when it comes to religion.
You can read why CATHOLIC said they withdrew from CAN. They said and I quote “we notice that CAN is no more promoting peace which oppose the aim and objective of the association”

ME: I'm out of that for now. CAN president is not my Lord or Savior and he alone can account for whatever he does, not me.

YOU: I bet it if I ever said they are not muslims but rather muslims who doesn’t understand the teachings of their religion. But you can imagine a muslim killing muslims in the name of religion!!! Does that make sense, Christian kill Christian in the name of religion
I notice some statements like ”because what the practice is found in Qura’an”, does that mean they are acting according to Qura’an? Because I read your post citing some verses also, if you have that understanding too, try to post the verses one by one and let us do justice to it

ME: That would be like tasking me too much. you are the Muslim; you do it sir.

YOU: My brother, am very sure till today Christians do commit atrocities of the highest order only that cover-ups from media were many. just Google it “Atrocities of Christians in the 21st century”
This does not mean am in support of any crime act but to tell people that if a rotten egg is found in a dozen that does not means all the egg are alike or the crate connecting them mandate their rottenness

ME: I believe that's history. Now, lets get back to the 21st century and the present danger we face from the Takfiris.

YOU: I will not engage you regarding Almajiris but I will still repeat it that:
So many things are wrong and that is the reason why the sultanate have said and I quote “BAD PEOPLE ARE PERPETRATORS OF EVIL, LET THE GOOD ONES COME TOGETHER AND FIGHT THE BAD ONES”

ME: Almajiris, area boys, winos, drug addicts, homeless, etc... we have them all everywhere waiting as veritable tools in the hands of revolutionists and renegades. But whose fault? The society that created them in spite of having had so much wealth passed through their coffers. The leaders have private jets, the poor can't even serve two meals a day. God will judge when the time comes.

YOU: LASTLY, NO GOOD MUSLIM SUPPORT TERRORISM AND NO SANE HUMAN BEIGN WILL DO

M: I feel you!

Abdulsalam20: THE ABOVE FATWA REFERS TO THE HISTORICAL CONTEXT IN WHICH THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD (PEACE BE UPON HIM) FOUGHT
AGAINST OTHER NATIONS. THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD DID NOT INITIATE AGRESSION AGAINST ANYONE, RATHER HE AND HIS FOLLOWERS
WERE UNDER ATTACK FROM ALL WHO SOUGHT TO CRUSH THE NEW ISLAMIC STATE. THE FIRST HOSTILITIES BETWEEN THE MUSLIMS AND
THE ROMAN EMPIRE BEGAN WHEN THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD'S MESSENGER TO THE GHASSAN TRIBE (A GOVERNATE OF THE
ROMAN EMPIRE), AL-HARITH BIN UMAYR AL-AZDI, WAS TIED UP AND BEHEADED (AL-MUBARAKPURI, AR-RAHEEQ AL-MAKHTUM ,
P. 383). THE KILLING OF A DIPLOMAT WAS AN OPEN ACT OF WAR, AND THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD SENT AN ARMED FORCE TO
CONFRONT THE TRIBE, BUT THE ROMAN EMPIRE BROUGHT IN REINFORCEMENTS AND THE RESULTING CONFLICT, KNOWN AS THE BATTLE OF
MUT'AH, WAS A DEFEAT FOR THE MUSLIMS. ONLY AFTER THIS DID SUBSEQUENT BATTLES BETWEEN THE MUSLIMS AND THE ROMAN
EMPIRE OCCUR, AND THE MUSLIMS EMERGED VICTORIOUS. LIKEWISE, AS MENTIONED IN THE ABOVE FATWA, HOSTILTIIES BETWEEN
THE MUSLIMS AND THE PERSIANS ONLY BEGAN AFTER THE PERSIAN EMPEROR CHOSROE ORDERED HIS GOVERNOR IN YEMEN
BADHAM, TO KILL THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD PBUH, ALTHOUGH HIS EFFORTS WERE THWARTED WHEN THE LATTER ACCEPTED ISLAM.
OTHER NON-MUSLIM GROUPS, SUCH AS THOSE IN MADINAH, ALSO INITIATED HOSTILITIES AGAINST THE MUSLIMS DESPITE PEACE
TREATIES AS SHAYKH SAYYID SABIQ WRITES:
AS FOR FIGHTING THE JEWS (PEOPLE OF THE SCRIPTURE), THEY HAD CONDUCTED A PEACE
PACT WITH THE MESSENGER AFTER HE MIGRATED TO MADINAH. SOON AFTERWARDS, THEY
BETRAYED THE PEACE PACT AND JOINED FORCES WITH THE PAGANS AND THE HYPOCRITES
AGAINST MUSLIMS. THEY ALSO FOUGHT AGAINST MUSLIMS DURING THE BATTLE OF
A`HZAB , THEN ALLAH REVEALED… [AND HE CITES VERSE 9:29] (SAYYID SABIQ, FIQHU
AS-SUNNAH , VOL. 3, P. 80)
IN LIGHT OF THE HISTORICAL CONTEXT OF THIS VERSE, IT BECOMES VERY CLEAR THAT THE VERSE WAS REVEALED IN CONNECTION WITH
AGRESSION INITIATED AGAINST MUSLIMS. AS DR. JAMAL BADAWI VERY ACCURATELY CONCLUDES WITH REGARD TO VERSE 9:29 AND
SIMILAR VERSES:
ALL OF THESE VERSES, WITHOUT EXCEPTION, IF STUDIED CAREFULLY, ADDRESS AGGRESSION
AND OPPRESSION COMMITTED AGAINST MUSLIMS AT THE TIME OF THE PROPHET (PEACE
AND BLESSINGS BE UPON HIM), WHETHER BY IDOLATROUS ARABS, SOME OF THE JEWISH
TRIBES IN MADINAH, OR BY SOME CHRISTIANS. ( SOURCE)
THEREFORE, THE COMMAND TO FIGHT IN VERSE 9:29 RELATES TO THOSE NON-MUSLIMS WHO COMMIT AGRESSION AND NOT THOSE
WHO ARE COMMITTED TO LIVE IN PEACE. THE VERSE IS SUBJECT TO CERTAIN CONDITIONS THAT WERE APPARENT WHEN IT WAS
IMPLEMENTED IN THE TIME OF THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD PBUH, AS SHAYKH SAYYID SABIQ WRITES:
WHAT WE HAVE STATED MAKES IT CLEAR THAT ISLAM DID NOT ALLOW THE INITIATING OF
HOSTILITIES, EXCEPT TO: 1. REPEL AGGRESSION; 2. PROTECT ISLAMIC PROPAGATION; 3.
DETER FITNAH AND OPPRESSION AND ENSURE FREEDOM OF RELIGION. IN SUCH CASES,
FIGHTING BECOMES A NECESSITY OF THE RELIGION AND ONE OF ITS SACRED
ORDAINMENTS. IT IS THEN CALLED, ‘JIHAD’. (SAYYID SABIQ, FIQHU AS-SUNNAH , VOL.
3, P. 81)
THE VERSE THEN PROCEEDS TO MENTION SOME ISSUES RELATING TO THE ISLAMIC STATE, AND GOVERNING NON-MUSLIM CITIZENS OF
THE ISLAMIC STATE. DR. MAHER HATHOUT COMMENTS ON THE REGULATIONS IN VERSE 9:29:
FREEDOM OF RELIGION IS AN ESSENTIAL ASPECT IN AN ISLAMIC STATE. ONE OF THE FIVE
PILLARS OF ISLAM IS ZAKAT (ALMSGIVING). THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK (CHRISTIANS AND
JEWS) ARE NOT OBLIGED TO PAY THE ISLAMIC ZAKAT THAT IS SPENT BY THE STATE FOR
SOCIAL NECESSITIES AND STATE AFFAIRS AS DEFINED IN THE QURAN (SEE 9:60). BUT
THEY MUST PAY OTHER TAXES TO SHARE IN THE STATE BUDGET. IF THEY REFUSE TO PAY
THIS TAX TO THE STATE AND REBEL AGAINST THE STATE, THEN IT IS THE OBLIGATION OF THE
STATE TO CONFRONT THEM UNTIL THEY PAY IT. THIS IS WHAT CALIPH ABU BAKR DID AFTER
THE DEATH OF THE PROPHET, WHEN SOME PEOPLE REFUSED TO PAY ZAKAT . (HATHOUT,
JIHAD VS. TERRORISM; US MULTIMEDIA VERA INTERNATIONAL, 2002, P.53)
THE VERSE MENTIONS JIZYA, WHICH IS UNFORTUNATELY MISUNDERSTOOD BY SOME PEOPLE. LIKE ANY NATION, THE ISLAMIC
GOVERNMENT REQUIRES ITS CITIZENS TO PAY TAXES IN RETURN FOR ITS SERVICES. SINCE MUSLIMS PAY THE ZAKAT, THE NON-MUSLIM
CITIZENS ARE REQUIRED TO PAY JIZYA (FOR MORE INFORMATION ON JIZYA, PLEASE REFER TO JIZYA IN ISLAM AND JIZYAH AND NON-
MUSLIM MINORITIES ). DR. MONQIZ AS-SAQQAR WRITES CONCERNING THE JIZYA TAX:
THE SUM OF JIZYA WAS NEVER LARGE TO THE EXTENT THAT THE MEN WERE UNABLE TO
PAY. RATHER, IT WAS ALWAYS AVAILABLE AND REASONABLE. DURING THE REIGN OF THE
PROPHET, PEACE AND BLESSINGS BE UPON HIM, JIZYA NEVER EXCEEDED ONE DINAR
ANNUALLY AND IT NEVER EXCEEDED FOUR DINARS UNDER THE UMAYYAD RULE.
( SOURCE)
SHAYKH ABU'L-HASAN AL-MAWARDI (D. 1058CE) EXPLICITLY POINTS OUT THAT THE JIZYA SHOULD BE EXACTED IN ACCORDANCE
WITH THE MEANS OF THE PEOPLE, AND THE IMAM SHOULD JUDGE THE CONCLUDE THE AMOUNT TO THE SATISFACTION OF THE LEADERS
OF THOSE BEING TAXED:
THE FUQAHA (JURISTS) DIFFER AS TO THE AMOUNT OF THE JIZYA. ABU HANIFA
CONSIDERS THAT THOSE SUBJECT TO THIS TAX ARE OF THREE KINDS: THE RICH FROM WHOM
FORTY-EIGHT DIRHAMS ARE TAKEN; THOSE OF AVERAGE MEANS FROM WHOM TWENTY
FOUR ARE TAKEN, AND THE POOR FROM WHOM TWELVE DIRHAMS ARE TAKEN: HE THUS
STIPULATED THE MINIMUM AND MAXIMUM AMOUNTS AND PROHIBITS ANY FURTHER
JUDGEMENT ON BEHALF OF THOSE RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS COLLECTION. MALIK, HOWEVER,
DOES NOT FIX ITS MINIMUM AND MAXIMUM AMOUNT AND CONSIDERS THAT THOSE
RESPONSIBLE SHOULD MAKE THEIR OWN JUDGEMENT AS TO THE MINIMUM AND
MAXIMUM. ASH-SHAFI'I CONSIDERS THAT THE MINIMUM IS A DINAR, AND THAT IT IS
NOT PERMITTED TO GO BELOW THIS WHILE HE DOES NOT STIPULATE THE MAXIMUM, THE
LATTER BEING DEPENDANT ON THE IJTIHAD (JUDGEMENT) OF THOSE RESPONSIBLE: THE
IMAM, HOWEVER, SHOULD TRY TO HARMONISE BETWEEN THE DIFFERENT AMOUNTS, OR TO
EXACT AN AMOUNT IN ACCORDANCE WITH PEOPLE'S MEANS. IF HE HAS USED HIS
JUDGEMENT TO CONCLUDE THE CONTRACT OD JIZYAH TO THE SATISFACTION OF THE LEADERS
OF THE PEOPLE BEING TAXED, THEN IT BECOMES BINDING ON ALL OF THEM AND THEIR
DESCENDANTS, GENERATION AFTER GENERATION, AND A LEADER MAY NOT AFTERWARDS
CHANGE THIS AMUNT, BE IT TO DECREASE IT OR INCREASE IT. (AL-MAWARDI, AL-AHKAM
AS-SULTANIYYAH , TA-HA PUBLISHERS LTD. 1996, PP. 209-210)
HENCE, THE LAWS OF ISLAM FORBID MUSLIMS FROM OPRESSING NON-MUSLIMS AND COMMAND THEM TO TREAT OTHERS WITH
JUSTICE AND COMPASSION. IN FACT, THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD PBUH HIMSELF FORBADE MUSLIMS FROM HARMING NON-MUSLIM
CITIZENS OF AN ISLAMIC STATE OR ANY NON-MUSLIM WITH WHOM THERE WAS AN AGREEMENT OF PEACE, AS HE SAID,
" THE ONE WHO WRONGS A COVENANTER OR IMPAIRS HIS RIGHT OR OVERWORKS HIM OR
FORCIBLY TAKES SOMETHING FROM HIM, I WILL BE HIS PROSECUTOR ON THE DAY OF
JUDGMENT. (SUNAN ABI DAWUD 170/3 NO. 3052, SUNAN AN-NASA'I 25/8 NO.
2749, AND VERIFIED BY AL-ALBANI NO. 2626).
IN CONCLUSION, VERSE 9:29 COMMANDS MUSLIMS TO FIGHT AGAINST ONLY THOSE WHO INITIATE AGRESSION AS ILLUSTATED BY ITS
HISTORICAL CONTEXT. MUSLIMS MAY ONLY FIGHT UNDER STRICT CONDITIONS, AND ARE COMMANDED TO LIVE PEACEFULLY WITH
PEACEFUL NON-MUSLIM NEIGHBORS.
SIMILAR NARRATION
BUKHARI: GOD'S APOSTLE SAID, I HAVE BEEN ORDERED TO FIGHT WITH THE PEOPLE TILL
THEY SAY, NONE HAS THE RIGHT TO BE WORSHIPPED BUT GOD. (VOLUME 4, BOOK 52,
NUMBER 196)
WITH REGARDS TO THE NARRATION, ONLY PART OF IT HAS BEEN QUOTED, AND THE FULL TEXT READS:
AND THE PROPHET (PEACE BE UPON HIM) SAID, "I HAVE BEEN ORDERED TO FIGHT THE
PEOPLE UNTIL THEY TESTIFY THAT THERE IS NO DEITY WORTHY OF WORSHIP OTHER THAN
ALLAH AND THAT MUHAMMAD IS THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH, ESTABLISH THE PRAYER, AND
PAY ZAKAT, AND IF THEY DO THIS, THEN THEIR BLOOD AND MONEY SHALL BE PROTECTED
FROM ME, EXCEPT BY AN ISLAMIC RIGHT, AND THEIR ACCOUNT WILL BE WITH ALLAH.
THIS NARRATION LISTS SOME OF THE PILLARS OF ISLAM THAT MUSLIMS MUST ADHERE TO. THE FIGHTING BEING ORDAINED HERE REFERS
TO THE ENFORCEMENT OF LAWS AND REGULATIONS WITHIN AN ISLAMIC STATE. JUST AS MODERN GOVERNMENTS ENFORCE THEIR LEGAL
POLICIES, SO TO DOES THE ISLAMIC STATE. THESE LEGAL POLICIES REFER TO MUSLIMS PAYING THEIR ZAKAT (CHARITY TAX) AND
ABIDING BY THE LAWS IN AN ISLAMIC STATE. THOSE WHO UNDERSTOOD THE SAYINGS OF THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD (PEACE BE
UPON HIM) THE BEST, WERE HIS COMPANIONS, AND WE CAN EXAMINE THEIR APPLICATION OF THE SAYINGS OF THE PROPHET
MUHAMMAD (PEACE BE UPON HIM) TO DERIVE A BETTER UNDERSTANDING. WE FIND THAT AFTER THE DEATH OF THE PROPHET
MUHAMMAD (PEACE BE UPON HIM), MANY HYPOCRITES WHO HAD PRETENDED TO BE MUSLIM BEGAN TO TURN AWAY AND LEAVE
THEIR RELIGIOUS DUTIES, ONE EXAMPLE WAS ZAKAT (THE CHARITY TAX). THEY WANTED TO COMPROMISE THE COMMANDS OF GOD. IT
WAS THEN THAT ABU BAKR, THE FIRST CALIPH AND THE CALIPH OF THAT TIME, CITED THIS NARRATION TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT A
COMPROMISE WOULD NOT BE TOLERATED AND HE WOULD FIGHT THEM UNTIL THEY AGREED TO FOLLOW ISLAM IN FULL. THE FIGHTING THAT
RESULTED WAS KNOWN AS THE RIDDAH WARS. SIMILARLY, WE CAN SEE THAT TODAY'S GOVERNMENTS WOULD NOT TOLERATE IT IF A
CITIZEN REFUSED TO PAY TAX OR ABIDE BY THE LAWS OF THE COUNTRY. IF ONE LIVES IN A STATE OR COUNTRY THEY MUST ABIDE BY THE
REGULATIONS TO ENSURE A SECURE AND HEALTHY SOCIETY. WE SHOULD NOTE THAT THE 'PEOPLE' REFERRED TO IN THIS NARRATION DOES
NOT REFER TO ALL OF HUMANITY. AS SHAYKH AHMED IBN TAYMIYYAH SAYS:
“ IT REFERS TO FIGHTING THOSE WHO ARE WAGING WAR , WHOM ALLAH HAS PERMITTED US
TO FIGHT. IT DOES NOT REFER TO THOSE WHO HAVE A COVENANT WITH US WITH WHOM
ALLAH COMMANDS US TO FULFILL OUR COVENANT.” (MAJMU` AL-FATAWA 19/20)
CLEARLY, THIS NARRATION DOES NOT REFER TO IMPOSING ISLAM UPON NON-MUSLIMS, SINCE THE QUR'AN EXPLICITLY STATES:
2:256 THERE IS NO COMPULSION IN RELIGION...
ALSO, WE HAVE ALREADY DEALT WITH THE CLAIMS THAT THIS VERSE WAS ABROGATED UNDER OUR DISCUSSION OF VERSE 9:5. ONCE
UNDERSTOOD IN THEIR CORRECT CONTEXT, THESE VERSES AND NARRATIONS BECOME CLEAR.

These are outdated by the age in which we live. I'll sum it all in one sentence, "Why fight at all in the 21st century, if your God is great (akbir) and has the capacity to fight for you, and not wait for the El Madhi to come and fight for you as the Islamic writings have predicted?"

Abdulsalam20: "Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the
Law
(the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to
abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until
heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not
the
least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from
the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is
accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18) " It is quite clear from
these verses from the New Testament that Jesus peace
be
upon him did honor the Old Testament and did say that
every single "letter" of it has to be honored, followed and
fulfilled.
"Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 'The
teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
So
you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But
do not do what they do, for they do not practice what
they
preach.' (Matthew 23:1-3) " We clearly see in these
verses
that Jesus peace be upon him did not prohibit for the Old
Testament to be followed, but only warned his followers
to
not follow it the way the current religious leaders of the
Law (the Jewish Rabies) were following it.
So according to Jesus peace be upon him, the adulterer
in
the New Testament must be put to death

NOW ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION
Many Christians use these verses to justify fornication and
pornography.
And the
use of John 8:1-11 does indeed raise a great concern to
Morals and Ethics.
For one thing, it is the biggest mistake for the citizens of
the Christian Whoredom to use John 8:1-11 as an excuse
for the sexual sins they commit against GOD Almighty.
When Jesus peace be upon him refused to stone the
woman, HE ACTUALLY REFUSED TO BE A HYPOCRITE!
Have he ordered the stoning of the woman, he would have
been indeed a hypocrite, because people in charge of
authority back then were not following anything in the
Law properly. He even called them "hypocrites" in several
occasions; see Matthew 6:2, 5, 16, Matthew 15:7, Matthew
22:18, Matthew 23:13, 15, 23, 25, 27, 29, Matthew 24:51,
Mark 7:6 and Luke 13:15 in the Bible. So why punish the
weakest citizen and leave the cause of the corruption?!
That was the Message that Jesus peace be upon him gave
to the people back then. Notice that John 8:6 clearly says
"They were using this question as a trap" , which clearly
means that the situation of John 8:1-11 was no more than a
trap to make Jesus peace be upon him make a mistake.
That's why HE DIDN'T ALLOW THEM TO OUT SMART HIM
AND FORCE HIM TO GIVE ANY JUDGMENT AGAINST THE
WOMAN. Jesus peace be upon him didn't in anyway
nullify the Laws of GOD Almighty regarding punishment
for adultery.
As I mentioned above, keep in mind that when Jesus gave
the above mentioned laws regarding what he considered
adultery, he gave them during the time when he spoke
highly of the Old Testament's Law:
Jesus orders Christians to follow the Old Testament's laws:
"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law
(the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to
abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until
heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the
least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from
the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is
accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18) " It is quite clear from
these verses from the New Testament that Jesus peace be
upon him did honor the Old Testament and did say that
every single "letter" of it has to be honored, followed and
fulfilled.
"Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 'The
teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So
you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But
do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they
preach.' (Matthew 23:1-3) " We clearly see in these verses
that Jesus peace be upon him did not prohibit for the Old
Testament to be followed, but only warned his followers to
not follow it the way the current religious leaders of the
Law (the Jewish Rabies) were following it.

Smart answer, I must say. You are very wrong in saying Christians justify sin with biblical verses. No true Christian will do that, but only charlattans. If you find a Christian justifying adultery, fornication, gayism, lesbianism and all such crap, look deeper as that person is not committed to Christ as Lord and Savior. That established, let me enlighten you on why Jesus did not condemn the woman caught in adultery to death and perhaps this will also help Muslims to understand why they cannot and must not follow the letters of the quran to the letter in the 21st Century.

Jesus did not come to execute judgment at that first advent. Yes, He declared that He did not come to bring peace to the world, but a sword of judgment. Because Jesus does not call the shots in the world, but Satan to whom Adam conceded his rights in the Garden of Eden, there can be no peace in the world yet. Yes, He has the power to, but He will force noone to believe in Him or follow Him. For those who believe, He gives His inner peace and rescues from the spiritual hold of Satan and promises them eternal life, but for those who refuse, He declares the sword of judgment when the time comes. So when He declares that He has not come to bring peace but judgment, this is what He means. When He comes back, He will appear, not as a sacrificial Lamb, but as a Lion that roars in judgment.

Jesus did not condemn the woman taken in adultery because,

1. He knew that the people only wanted to implicate him and they were insincere;

2. They brought only the woman for judgment and spared the man, though both were caught guilty red handed and that is injustice;

3. Jesus did not come to judge the world at that time, but to offer the grace of salvation;

4. Jesus came to give the chance of repentance and redemption to every sinner who accepts Him;

5. None of the accusers had a right to judge because they were guilty of other sins too;

6. The case had not been properly presented before the judges and the sentence could not be passed without adequate prosecution;

7. What the Jews wanted to do was against the law of the land. Roman laws permitted the Jews to judge concerning matters that did not involve death penalty only and that was why they could not crucify Jesus without getting Him convicted by Pilate. If Jesus asked that the OT law should be executed on the woman, He would be disobeying the law of Rome. He says to give to Ceaser what belongs to him, didn't He?

Taking a cue from all these, and points 5 and 7 particularly, that is why I say that even if the quran commands certain judgments on kafirs, the Moslem must be careful not to execute such in this present age and time because it has become illegal, being against the law of equity (as no one comes with clean hands) and the laws of the land. So also, even if Christians believe in the laws of the Old Testament, they cannot execute them in this present age and time for the same reasons. When Jesus declared that every single word of OT laws would be fulfilled, He didn't mean that they would be fulfilled by man, but by God at the White Throne Judgment.

In conclusion, those Bible passages you quote would rather be treated as executable by God alone as true judgment belongs to God. Now, I say, go and preach these to the Takfiris...

Abdulsalam20: @ PASTOR KUN PLS DONT JUST COPY AND PASTE FROM ANYWHERE WITHOUT VERIFYING THEM PLS DOWNLOAD ENGLISH QURAN U WILL SEE THAT ALL WHAT U POSTED ARE FALACY
EVEN U DONT EVEN UNDERSTAND YOUR BIBLE U CLAIM JESUS NEVER KILL PLS WHAT OF THIS?
Check Jesus
words to his decides in Luke 22:36 He said to
them, “But now if you have a purse, take it,
and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword,
sell your cloak and buy one. Check your
dictionary to know the meaning of purse,
bag, and Sword. The Bible have already tell us
the meaning of Sword in Ezekiel 21:9 “‘A
sword, a sword, sharpened and polished—
sharpened for the slaughter, 10 polished to
flash like lightning! “‘The sword is appointed
to be polished, 11 to be grasped with the
hand; it is sharpened and polished, made
ready for the hand of the slayer..
U CLAIM STONNING TO DEATH IS IN THE QURAN PLS WHAT OF THIS VERSES IN THE BIBLE
The following Verses are from the NIV Bible:
Exodus 20:14 "You shall not commit adultery."
Deuteronomy 22:22 "If a man is found sleeping with
another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and
the woman must die. "
Leviticus 20:10 "If a man commits adultery with another
man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the
adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death. "
Proverbs 6:32 "But a man who commits adultery lacks
judgment; whoever does so destroys himself. " He
destroys himself by being put to death as shown above.
Leviticus 21:9 "And the daughter of any priest, if she
profane herself by playing the LovePeddler, she profaneth her
father: she shall be burnt with fire. " Why should only a
daughter of a priest gets burnt to death if she profanes
herself? Why can't this law apply to all daughters?
CUTTING OF HAND IN THE BIBLE
Deuteronomy 25:11-12 "If two men are fighting and the
wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his
assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his
private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no
pity. " This doesn't make any sense what so ever! Why
should the woman get her hands cut off for defending her
husband? It's not like she was cheating on him or
anything like that!
We clearly see that adultery causes death from the Verses
above. Let us see what Jesus peace be upon him said
about adultery:
The following Verses are from the NIV Bible:
Matthew 19:9 "I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife,
except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another
woman commits adultery. " Wouldn't this cause the man
to be put to death?
Mark 10:11 "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries
another woman commits adultery against her. " Again,
wouldn't he then be put to death since he would have
committed adultery?
Mark 10:12 "And if she divorces her husband and marries
another man, she commits adultery. " Same question I
ask about the women who are considered have committed
adultery. Wouldn't they be put to death also?
Luke 16:18 "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries
another woman commits adultery, and the man who
marries a divorced woman commits adultery. "
My question here is: Would an adulterer in the New
Testament be put to death?
Keep in mind that when Jesus gave the above laws, he gave
them during the time when he spoke highly of the Old
Testament's Law:
Jesus orders Christians to follow the Old Testament's laws:
"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law
(the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to
abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until
heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the
least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from
the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is
accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18) " It is quite clear from
these verses from the New Testament that Jesus peace be
upon him did honor the Old Testament and did say that
every single "letter" of it has to be honored, followed and
fulfilled.
"Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 'The
teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So
you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But
do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they
preach.' (Matthew 23:1-3) " We clearly see in these verses
that Jesus peace be upon him did not prohibit for the Old
Testament to be followed, but only warned his followers to
not follow it the way the current religious leaders of the
Law (the Jewish Rabies) were following it.
So according to Jesus peace be upon him, the adulterer in
the New Testament must be put to death

If as you claimed, "according to Jesus ..., the adulterer in the New Testament must be put to death", why then did Jesus proclaim a verdict of "neither do I condemn you..." on her?

Abdulsalam20: @ PASTOR KUN PLS DONT JUST COPY AND PASTE FROM ANYWHERE WITHOUT VERIFYING THEM PLS DOWNLOAD ENGLISH QURAN U WILL SEE THAT ALL WHAT U POSTED ARE FALACY
EVEN U DONT EVEN UNDERSTAND YOUR BIBLE U CLAIM JESUS NEVER KILL PLS WHAT OF THIS?
Check Jesus
words to his decides in Luke 22:36 He said to
them, “But now if you have a purse, take it,
and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword,
sell your cloak and buy one. Check your
dictionary to know the meaning of purse,
bag, and Sword. The Bible have already tell us
the meaning of Sword in Ezekiel 21:9 “‘A
sword, a sword, sharpened and polished—
sharpened for the slaughter, 10 polished to
flash like lightning! “‘The sword is appointed
to be polished, 11 to be grasped with the
hand; it is sharpened and polished, made
ready for the hand of the slayer..
U CLAIM STONNING TO DEATH IS IN THE QURAN PLS WHAT OF THIS VERSES IN THE BIBLE
The following Verses are from the NIV Bible:
Exodus 20:14 "You shall not commit adultery."
Deuteronomy 22:22 "If a man is found sleeping with
another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and
the woman must die. "
Leviticus 20:10 "If a man commits adultery with another
man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the
adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death. "
Proverbs 6:32 "But a man who commits adultery lacks
judgment; whoever does so destroys himself. " He
destroys himself by being put to death as shown above.
Leviticus 21:9 "And the daughter of any priest, if she
profane herself by playing the LovePeddler, she profaneth her
father: she shall be burnt with fire. " Why should only a
daughter of a priest gets burnt to death if she profanes
herself? Why can't this law apply to all daughters?
CUTTING OF HAND IN THE BIBLE
Deuteronomy 25:11-12 "If two men are fighting and the
wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his
assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his
private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no
pity. " This doesn't make any sense what so ever! Why
should the woman get her hands cut off for defending her
husband? It's not like she was cheating on him or
anything like that!
We clearly see that adultery causes death from the Verses
above. Let us see what Jesus peace be upon him said
about adultery:
The following Verses are from the NIV Bible:
Matthew 19:9 "I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife,
except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another
woman commits adultery. " Wouldn't this cause the man
to be put to death?
Mark 10:11 "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries
another woman commits adultery against her. " Again,
wouldn't he then be put to death since he would have
committed adultery?
Mark 10:12 "And if she divorces her husband and marries
another man, she commits adultery. " Same question I
ask about the women who are considered have committed
adultery. Wouldn't they be put to death also?
Luke 16:18 "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries
another woman commits adultery, and the man who
marries a divorced woman commits adultery. "
My question here is: Would an adulterer in the New
Testament be put to death?
Keep in mind that when Jesus gave the above laws, he gave
them during the time when he spoke highly of the Old
Testament's Law:
Jesus orders Christians to follow the Old Testament's laws:
"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law
(the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to
abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until
heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the
least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from
the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is
accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18) " It is quite clear from
these verses from the New Testament that Jesus peace be
upon him did honor the Old Testament and did say that
every single "letter" of it has to be honored, followed and
fulfilled.
"Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 'The
teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So
you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But
do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they
preach.' (Matthew 23:1-3) " We clearly see in these verses
that Jesus peace be upon him did not prohibit for the Old
Testament to be followed, but only warned his followers to
not follow it the way the current religious leaders of the
Law (the Jewish Rabies) were following it.
So according to Jesus peace be upon him, the adulterer in
the New Testament must be put to death

Please, how does this prove that Jesus killed or supported killing?

Abdulsalam20: SINCE I HAVE BEEN ARGUING WITH YOU I NEVER MISQUOTE ANY PASSAGE I QUOTE IT ACCORDING TO HOW IT IS QUOTED
WHY MISQUOTING QURAN
2:191
PLS READ IT FROM 190
1:190 Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.1:191 And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the S
acred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.1:192 But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
THIS VERSE SAYS FIGHT ONLY THOSE WHO FIGHT YOU AND DONT TRANSGRESS LIMIT BECAUSE IN ISLAM DURING WAR THERE ARE LAWS GUIDING IT LIKE DONT KILL CHILDREN WOMEN THEIR ANIMAL AND DONT KILL THOSE WHO DONT ATTACK YOU

QURAN CHAPTER 9 VERSE 123

1:123 O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.
THIS CLEARLY STATE THAT THOSE WHO GIRD YOU ABOUT

Thanks for the enlightenement, my friend. I'm not a scholar in quranic matters, but the little I read (I do have an Arabic quran; English translation by Abdullah Yusuf Ali, and I and read it to know better) and what I understand is what I quote. Perhaps there're some exegesis I miss out. I notice that there are instances where jihad is specfically tied to conditions as you stated, while in others, it was discussed independently of conditions. How do you view these two?

yazach, I very much appreciate your sensible contributions. I agree that the Ops caption of this thread is not in support of BH. But I didn't draw the first blood; it was the defenses put up by some fanatic Muslims on the thread that led to the long discourse. Instead of lending a hand to strengthen the caption, they started throwing stones without realizing that they are living in glass houses. It's a pity, I just have to engage them to disabuse the wrong notions being planted in the minds of those who may not be better informed.

If you follow my posts you will discover that I'm not in defense of CAN leader on issue of the $10million money laundering saga, neither in support of CAN's explanation. I will not support illegality just because it is perpetrated by someone who bears the same title with me. But then, we are not yet sure of what really happened and we still need to wait for further outcome and see how the case goes to conclude if it was a case of money meant to buy arms for BH, or simply another type of serendipity of the usual clandestine thefts by government officials. Isis, Isil and IS are killing all who are not like them, I agree and I stated it earlier. The more reason we should all lend a voice in condemning them rather than engaging each other.

When you say ISIS and other Takfiris are not Muslims, I tend to disagree and rather say they are extremist Muslims who believe in strict interpretation of quran because what they practice is also found in the quran. But Muslims who are enlightened and educated who try to moderate the quran to suit the exigencies of the 21st Century see them in bad light while they see us all, Muslims and Kafir as infidels. That's why they are killing Muslims too. If you try and google a magazine published by these Takfiris, 'Dabiq', and read their submissions, you will understand what I'm saying better. They claim that they are bent on executing the words of the Islamic writtings and ulama to the last letter.

Yes, just as you said, 'Christians' too have used biblical verses to justify persecution, oppression, terror and bringandage until the 19th Century when they wisened up more into democratic ideals. I'm asking Muslims too to copy. I am not in support of American and Western military interventions. Apparently, they brought out the demons in the Takfiris whom they trained to fight against one another but who have now turned their weapons against them and the whole world as we have seen. America is not a Christian nation, but secular, mind you. They are just as evil in their machinations and selfish interests as anyone else.

I sure know who the Almanjiris are. I lived a while in the North awhile and travelled around too. During my sojourn, I kept thinking, "If something definite is not done about these chaps, they will someday become willing tools in the hands of extremist Muslims". Now, I see majority of them within the ranks and file of BH for no reason other than search for daily bread, enticement or coercion into the group. But that is not surprising as they have earlier been veritable tools in the hands of Northern rioters for decades.

"So many things are wrong" as you rightly stated. We all need to join hands to save our destiny rather than engaging mutual brutal attacks. With these said, I will soon bow out of this thread, expecting that we have presented enough facts and figures here for anyone to judge and decide.

But I never run from any challenge and will still accept yours to discuss facts if you are keen. You can open your thread and mention my moniker to tag me. I'm game, always.[/quote]

Abdulsalam20: THE PROBLEM U CHRISTIAN HAVE IS THAT U DONT EVEN SIT DOWN ONE DAY AND THINK WHAT IS RELIGION?IS IT WHAT I PRACTISE BECAUSE MY PARENT ARE PRACTICING IT?
OR AM I PRCTICING IT BECAUSE I CONSIDER IT AS A WAY?
CHRISTIANITY ISNT A RELIGION CHECK MY PROFILE FOR MORE DETAIL AND ALSO FOLLOW THIS LINK
www.nairaland.com/739943/demolishing-falsehood-christianity-bible
U WILL SEE THE TRUTH
CHECK MY SIGNATURE IT JUSTIFY THAT THERE IS NO COMPULSION IN RELIGION
IF U CAN READ THE QURAN YOU WILL DISCOVER THAT ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF PEACE ISLAM DONT ALLOW UNJUST KILLING WHAT ISLAM MEANS IS TOTAL SUMISSION TO GOD UNCONDITIONALLY
BUT U CHRISTIANS U WORSHIP A PROPHET INSTEAD OF GOD
THAT IS WHY I ALWAYS SAY THAT ALL CHRISTIAN DONT FOLLOW THE TEACHING OF JESUS
ONLY MUSLIMS FOLLOW HIM TRUTHFULLY LIKE I SAID CHECK MY PROFILE FOR MORE REALITY
AND ALSO FOLLOW THIS LINK
www.nairaland.com/739943/demolishing-falsehood-christianity-bible

Does it occur to you at all that the quran places greater honor on Jesus than on Mohammed? Why, if I may ask, is this so? You can read the blog in the following link to understand better.

mongsexpressive..com.es/2014/08/christ-more-honored-in-koran-than.html?m=1


10 Verses from the Quran Prove ISIS Truly Follows Islam


Muslims around the world, along with U.S. President Barack Obama, have denounced ISIS, saying that their actions do not define Islam and are wholly against the Quran. But versesstraightfrom the same book both moderate Muslims and ISIS insurgents reference show thatthe savages arenot misinterpreting the Apostle Muhammad after all.

David Woods of AnsweringMuslims.com dedicates his time to studying the Quranand hadith (Muhammad’s quotes and biography). Now, he has compiled a list of10 scripturesto expose the hypocrisy of the moderate Muslim, proving that ISIS is the trueexample of devout Islamists:

10. Muslims must hate non-believers
Quran 3:32 – “Obey Allah and the Messenger (Muhammad); but if they turn away, then indeed, Allah does not love the disbelievers.”

9. Muslims must discriminate against unbelievers
Quran 48:29 – “Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah; and those with him are forceful against the disbelievers, merciful amongst themselves.”

8. Muslims can rape women, so long as they take them as wives or slaves
Quran 4:24 – “And [also prohibited to you are all] married women except those your right hand possess.”

7. Muslims must persecutethose who are against the establishmentof an Islamic State
Quran 5:33 – “Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but thatthey be killed or crucified or thattheir hands and feet be cut offfrom opposite sides or thatthey be exiled from the land. That is forthem a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafteris a great punishment.”

6. Muslims must slaughter anyone who won’t convert to Islam
Quran 9:5 – “And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.”

5. Muslims can be merciful by forcing Jews and Christians to payfines and live in apartheid
Quran 9:29 – “Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truthfrom those who were given the Scripture –[fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.”

4. Muslims may slaughter other Muslims
Qruan 9:73 – “O Prophet, fight against the disbelievers and the hypocritesand be harsh upon them. And their refuge is Hell, and wretched is the destination.”

3. Muslims must not be peaceful or moderate, but war for Allah
Quran 9:111 – “Indeed, Allah has purchased from the believerstheir lives and their properties [in exchange] for that they will have Paradise. They fight in the cause of Allah , so they kill and are killed.”

2. Muslims should not seek peace unless they have rid their community of unbelievers
Quran 47:35 – “So do not weaken and call for peace while you are superior; and Allah is with you and will never deprive you of [the reward of] yourdeeds.”

1. Peaceful quranic verseswere before Allah’s commands of slaughter, and are therefore annulled
Quran 2:106 – “We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except thatWe bring forth [one] better than itor similar to it. Do you not know that Allah is over all things competent?”
Considering the extremenature of theseverses, it would seem redundant to claim that ISIS are extremistsof Islam, while they actually interpret the quranic commands as literally as possible, resurrecting the barbaricleadership of their prophet Muhammad.

Still, Muslims who choose to follow the abrogated commands of Allah are out-dated, choosey, and, according to the Quran 9:73, hypocritical. While debating that ISIS fightersare truly representing Islam in its purest form doesn’t solve the crisis, it is the firststep to acknowledging that Islam is the problem and will always breed terror.

Abdulsalam20: WHO ARE BOKO HARAM?!!
(1) Mr. John Alaku Akpavan, the
man arrested attempt to bomb
Radio House Abuja were christian.
(2) Lydia Joseph (the failed
bomber of St. John Catholic
Cathedral) of Bauchi State who
attempted to bomb a church on
September 12,2011.; was
christian.
(3) Augustine Effiong akwa ibon
indigene carry april 29th 2012
attack in connection with BUK
bomb attack.” Was christian.
(4) Emmanuel King arrested in
attempt to bomb the Redeemed
Christian Church of God (RCCG) in
Yenagoa, the Bayelsa State capital,
while camouflaged in Islamic
attire on December 28, 2011.
(5) Igbo traders that gunned
down a dozen fellow Igbo
businessmen of the same non-
Islamic faith inside the Christ
Apostolic Church, in Adamawa
State on Friday, January 6, 2012.
(6) Samson Mangai who was
arrested in Plateau state
attempting to bomb a church was
christian fellower.
(7) Madam Ruth, who attempted
to bomb the ECWA church,
Kalaring Kaltingo, in Gombe State
on 12 Mar 2012. She Was cristian
fellower.
( Case of the arrest of about
eight Christians in Bauchi in an
attempt to blast the COCIN church
on Sunday, February 26, 2012.
(9) Case of the Christian bomber
lynched while escaping after
blasting the COCIN Church of Jos
on Sunday, February 26, 2012.
(10) Mr Alex Danladi involved in
COCIN HQ bombing was lynched
by worshipers. He was a church
member disguised in military
uniform.
(11) jonathan Gyanet, police
officer was arrested attempt to
bomb ERCC church in
Akwanga nasarawa state on Apri
20 2014. Was christian.
(12) The pastor's case in Osun state still fresh in our mind# fact!
CAN WE STILL CALL IT MUSLIMS'
AGENDA
THANK GOD THE PLANE CAN PRESIDENT WANT TO USE TO PURCHASE AMMUNITION ROM UN AUTHORISED AGENT IN SOUTH AFRICA WAS DISCOVERED AND NOW SINCE NO MORE AMMUNITION FOR THEM THEY ARE NOW SURRENDERING VOLUNTARILY.....IF U CAN READ MY EARLIAER POST U WILL DISCOVER THAT ISLAM BY NO WAY SUPPORT TERRORISM

Below is a drafted list of killings perpetuated against the Northern Christians by Muslims in the far Northwest, Northeast, and North centralGeopolitical Region (the Middle Belt) even before Boko Haram:

1). 1980 May: 2467 Christians killed in Zaria 2). 1980 December 18‐20 Riots in Kano. The Maitatsine sect, 4,177 were killed (Mostly Christians and Easterners). 3). 1982 September 29-October 3. Disturbances in Kaduna, Kaduna State. 53 killed and many churches were burned. 4). 1982 October 29‐30. Further trouble in Maiduguri, Borno State by the Maitatsine sects.118 died. 5). 1984 February 27-March 5. Disturbance in Yola, then Gongola State by the Maitatsine sect,568 died. Mostly Christians 6). 1985 April 26‐28: Riot in Gombe, Bauchi State by the Maitatsine sect.105 Mostly Christians died. 7). 1987 March 5th and subsequentdays. In Kafanchan, Kaduna State, Christians defendedthemselves against the rampaging killer extremist Muslims at the College of Education.100 Churches were burnt. . 1987 March. Katsina, Funtua, Zaria, Gussau and Kaduna (Kaduna State). A wave of religious riots, many churches were burntand property destroyed,and many lives were lost. 9). 1991 April In Katsina, several lives were lost. Shiite sectin Katsina led by Malam Yahaya Yakubu. 10). 1991 April, in Tafawa Balewa University(Bauchi State) over 200 lives were lost with properties and 20 churches destroyed. 11). 1991 October 14‐ 15. In Kano, the attemptof the Izala sect to stopRev. Bonnke from preaching became violent. Thousands of Christians diedand property destroyed.Conservativeestimates (3800) 12). 1992 February 6th and then May 15‐16: Zango Kataf, Zaria, Kaduna State Communal clash becomes a religious clash, with lives and property destroyed. 13). Funtua (Katsina State). Kalakato religious sect assaulted a village head. Over 50 lives were lost and properties destroyed. 14). 1999. May 20. Muslim‐Christian riots in Kaduna, for three days, several hundred were feared dead.3200 conservative estimate, mostly Christians 15). 1999. July 18: Hausa and Yoruba riot in Shagamu, over 60 are killed. This led to trouble in Kano where over 70 were killed. 16). 2000 August11. About 200 were killed as the army intervened in Taraba State 2000 October. Sharia Law in is introduced in Zamfara State afterour bearded Governor returned from Osama Bin Laden's School of terrorist, Sudan. 17). 2000 February. Riots in Kaduna over the introduction of Sharia. Over 400 are killed. Mostly Christians 18). 2001 September 7. Christian‐Muslim conflicts in Jos. Over 500 are killed. 19). 2001 October 12‐14 In Kano, there were anti‐American riots, because of USA intervention in Afghanistan.At least 350 are killed Mostly Christians.(You can imagine the mentality, Northern Christians arenow citizens of America). 20). 2006 February: Sectarian violence sparked by cartoons of Islam’s mostrevered figure spreadto 11 Nigerian cities resulting in the burning of 28 churches and pushing the total death toll to more than 650.

PastorKun: Don't mind him, he is obviously lying. Lying to defend Islam(tequiya) is actually a virtue in Islam.

PastorKun, let us give him the privilege of saying he is right that some of these cases actually occurred, although many were merely fabricated or tuned to butress his point. What I will really want Abdulsalam20 to prove to us is that Christian theology justifies such acts just as the quran justifies terrorist jihads.

Jesus, whom the Christians follow His teachings never fought any war nor encouraged His followers on such course. But historical antecedents of Islam is filled with wars of attrition and conquests. Mohammed himself wrote and demonstrated that his followers must perpetually live by war, he himself having been a warrior leader. It does not come as a surprise to me as the Bible predicted long before that the sons of Ishmael would live like terrorists.

Genesis 16 [11 ] "And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction.
[12 ]"And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren." What we see currently as Islamic terrorism is a fulfillment of this.

Differences Between Muhammad (Islamic teachings) and Jesus (Christian teachings):

Muhammad... #SaidAllah hates those who don't accept Islam. (Qur'an 30:45, 3:32, 22:38) #JesusSaid God loves everyone. (John 3:16) Muhammad...#"I have been commanded to fight against people till they testifythat there is no god but Allah, and that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah" (Muslim 1:33) #Jesus "He who lives by the sword will die by the sword." (Matthew 26:52) Muhammad...# Stoned women for adultery. (Muslim 4206) #Jesus "Let he who is without sin castthe firststone." (John 8:7) Muhammad... #Beheaded 800 Jewish men and boys. (Sahih Muslim 4390) #Jesus Beheaded no one. Muhammad... #Murdered those who insulted him. (Bukhari 56:369, 4:241) #Jesus Preached forgiveness. (Matthew 18:21-22, 5:38) Muhammad...#"If then anyone transgressesthe prohibition against you, Transgressye likewise against him" (Qur'an 2:194) #Jesus "If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." (Matthew 5:39) Muhammad... #Jihad in the way of Allah elevates one's position in Paradise by a hundred fold. (Muslim 4645) #Jesus "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called Sons of God" (Matthew 5:9) Muhammad... #Married 13 wives and kept sex slaves. (Bukhari 5:268, Qur'an 33:50) #Jesus...Was celibate. Muhammad... #Slept with a 9-year-old child. (Sahih Muslim 3309, Bukhari 58:236) #Jesus. Did not have sex with children. Muhammad #Ordered the murder of women. (Ibn Ishaq 819, 995) #Jesus...Never #harmed a woman. Muhammad...#"O you who believe! Fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness." (Qur'an 9:123) #Jesus..."Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth." (Matthew 5:5)


Now check this Quranic verses out: Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them( 2:191 ) Make war on the infidels living in your neighbourhood ( 9:123 ) When opportunity arises, kill the infidels wherever you catch them ( 9:5 ) Kill the Jews and the Christians if they do not convert to Islam or refuse to pay Jizya tax ( 9:29 ) Any religion other than Islam is not acceptable ( 3:85 ) The Jews and the Christians are perverts; fight them ( 9:30 ) Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticise Islam.( 5:33 ) The infidels are unclean; do not let them into a mosque ( 9:28 ) Punish the unbelievers with garments of fire, hooked iron rods, boiling water; melt their skin and bellies ( 22:19 ) Do not hanker for peace with the infidels; behead them when you catch them ( 47:4 ) The unbelievers are silly; urge the Muslims to fightthem ( 8:65 ) Muslims mustnot take the infidels as friends ( 3:28 ) Terrorise and behead those who believe in scriptures other than the Qur’an ( 8:12 ) Muslims must muster all weapons to terrorise the infidels ( 8:60 )

Abdulsalam20: The horrible truth is that, numerically and statistically
speaking, Christian Civilization is the bloodiest and most
violent of all civilizations in all of history, and is
responsible for hundreds of millions of deaths....

Of course, I agree with you that the Christian civilization has been implicated in more deaths due to persecution of their own and people of other faith. All these acts perpetrated in historical antecedents are completely condemnable. But one needs to wonder whether in this 21st Century, Muslims are currently trying to outdo the evils of the Christians, or what.

[quote author=Abdulsalam20]WHO ARE BOKO HARAM?!!
(1) Mr. John Alaku Akpavan, the
man arrested attempt to bomb
Radio House Abuja were christian...

A very good dig into historical incidents of 'Christians' implicated in dastardly acts that can pass for terrorism in Nigeria. From this, it's certain that people of all faith could be terrorists. Now, how about giving us those incidents of Muslims implicated in the same acts to help us justify your claims that the Christians alone are the real BH? I bet, that would fill up over a hundred pages on this thread if you try hard enough the same way.

Abdulsalam20: THE PROBLEM U CHRISTIAN HAVE IS THAT U DONT EVEN SIT DOWN ONE DAY AND THINK WHAT IS RELIGION?IS IT WHAT I PRACTISE BECAUSE MY PARENT ARE PRACTICING IT?
OR AM I PRCTICING IT BECAUSE I CONSIDER IT AS A WAY?
CHRISTIANITY ISNT A RELIGION CHECK MY PROFILE FOR MORE DETAIL AND ALSO FOLLOW THIS LINK
www.nairaland.com/739943/demolishing-falsehood-christianity-bible
U WILL SEE THE TRUTH
CHECK MY SIGNATURE IT JUSTIFY THAT THERE IS NO COMPULSION IN RELIGION
IF U CAN READ THE QURAN YOU WILL DISCOVER THAT ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF PEACE ISLAM DONT ALLOW UNJUST KILLING WHAT ISLAM MEANS IS TOTAL SUMISSION TO GOD UNCONDITIONALLY
BUT U CHRISTIANS U WORSHIP A PROPHET INSTEAD OF GOD
THAT IS WHY I ALWAYS SAY THAT ALL CHRISTIAN DONT FOLLOW THE TEACHING OF JESUS
ONLY MUSLIMS FOLLOW HIM TRUTHFULLY LIKE I SAID CHECK MY PROFILE FOR MORE REALITY
AND ALSO FOLLOW THIS LINK
www.nairaland.com/739943/demolishing-falsehood-christianity-bible

Chew on these mate. And have you ever googled 'Dabiq'? Try it.

Abdulsalam20: 1. Terrorism is above all murder. Murder is strictly forbidden
in the Qur’an. Qur’an 6:151 says, “and do not kill a soul that
God has made sacrosanct, save lawfully.” (i.e. murder is
forbidden but the death penalty imposed by the state for a
crime is permitted). 5:53 says, “… whoso kills a soul, unless it
be for murder or for wreaking corruption in the land, it shall
be as if he had killed all mankind; and he who saves a life, it
shall be as if he had given life to all mankind.”
2. If the motive for terrorism is religious, it is impermissible in
Islamic law. It is forbidden to attempt to impose Islam on
other people. The Qur’an says, “There is no compulsion in
religion. The right way has become distinct from error.” (-The
Cow, 2:256). Note that this verse was revealed in Medina in
622 AD or after and was never abrogated by any other verse
of the Quran. Islam’s holy book forbids coercing people into
adopting any religion. They have to willingly choose it.
3. Islamic law forbids aggressive warfare. The Quran says,
“But if the enemies incline towards peace, do you also incline
towards peace. And trust in God! For He is the one who hears
and knows all things.” (8:61) The Quran chapter “The Cow,”
2:190, says, “Fight in the way of God against those who fight
against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! God loveth not
aggressors.”
4. In the Islamic law of war, not just any civil engineer can
declare or launch a war. It is the prerogative of the duly
constituted leader of the Muslim community that engages in
the war. Nowadays that would be the president or prime
minister of the state, as advised by the mufti or national
jurisconsult.
5. The killing of innocent non-combatants is forbidden.
According to Sunni tradition, ‘Abu Bakr al-Siddiq, the first
Caliph, gave these instructions to his armies: “I instruct you in
ten matters: Do not kill women, children, the old, or the infirm;
do not cut down fruit-bearing trees; do not destroy any
town . . . ” (Malik’s Muwatta’, “Kitab al-Jihad.”)
6. Terrorism or hirabah is forbidden in Islamic law, which
groups it with brigandage, highway robbery and extortion
rackets– any illicit use of fear and coercion in public spaces
for money or power. The principle of forbidding the spreading
of terror in the land is based on the Qur’an (Surah al-Ma’ida
5:33–34). Prominent [pdf] Muslim legal scholar Sherman
Jackson writes, “The Spanish Maliki jurist Ibn `Abd al-Barr (d.
464/ 1070)) defines the agent of hiraba as ‘Anyone who
disturbs free passage in the streets and renders them unsafe
to travel, striving to spread corruption in the land by taking
money, killing people or violating what God has made it
unlawful to violate is guilty of hirabah . . .”
7. Sneak attacks are forbidden. Muslim commanders must
give the enemy fair warning that war is imminent. The Prophet
Muhammad at one point gave 4 months notice.
8. The Prophet Muhammad counseled doing good to those
who harm you and is said to have commanded , “Do not be
people without minds of your own, saying that if others treat
you well you will treat them well, and that if they do wrong you
will do wrong to them. Instead, accustom yourselves to do
good if people do good and not to do wrong (even) if they do
evil.” (Al-Tirmidhi)
9. The Qur’an demands of believers that they exercise justice
toward people even where they have reason to be angry with
them: “And do not let the hatred of a people prevent you from
being just. Be just; that is nearer to righteousness.”[5:8]

I love this very articulate write up. Much more sensible to defend your religious beliefs than engage in attacking those who oppose the wrong practices. The essence of this post by the Op is served better when we condemn the actions of those extremists than attacking other religions or just hiding our faces behind a single finger. If all Muslims could practice your teachings, there would be a better chance for peaceful co-existence between all peoples.

Somebody needs to tell me who the real Muslim is...

Yes, I am a proud to say that I am a Christian and not an atheist.

I similarly believe that Hitler was a terrorist as well as the Catholic Crusaders and God never mandated their destructive missions. I also believe that whoever decides to pick an illegal mandate in the name of God should be condemned and tagged "unChristian". I thought you too should also be against terrorists, no matter their professed religions. That is why I am surprised that you are rather fighting those who condemn Islamist terrorists instead of the terrorists themselves.

I am definitely not on the same page with those defending the issue of $10 million smuggled into SA for clandestine activities. I am more miffed by the fact that they chose to use the CAN president's jet for this illegal activity. I am also ashamed to read CAN's defense of the issue and their attack on the opposition, which I believe is just passing the buck. I, for one, will not shield those who claim the same religion with me when they step out of line. To me, the CAN official who fixed a blast in church to prove his prediction true was definitely out of line too.

I am happy to read this statement from you; "The bone of contention is that if somebody claims to be fighting for Allah, does that mean truly he is fighting for Allah sake or Allah truly command him to do so?" But I'm still at a loss as to why you will chose to trade brickbats with Pastor Kun and the others over their condemnation of BH or their claims that the quran contains elements that seem to justify such violence. Is it not true? Have you not read such passages before? If there are such in the quran, the next step, as I mentioned earlier, should be to upgrade your mind to the 21st Century, just like I believe the Catholics and Nazis have done by now eschewing violence. Even the Catholics of Northern Ireland have stopped the violent wars for independence from GB. For this, I have more respect for Muslims in the southern parts of Nigeria who have abstained from violence to prove their religion. Even though they too read the quran, they have mostly upgraded to modernity, except for a few who still voice out violent teachings.

The main question that should be on everybody's mind now is, "why are Islamists now waking up into unfruitful destruction?" Right now, the terror wars are far from where we dwell and we may feel comfortable with that until they move to our very dwellings too. We should therefore, all rise up to voice condemnation of these extremists before they get to us too.

But I'm still bothered by your submissions, " Now I will shed light on conditions for Islamic war
1- It must be declared under Islamic Stateby Muslim leader(Single Leader) not Sect leader.
2- It should be fought if you are attacked and should be commanded by Islamic leader. The Prophet lived with pagan in Macca peacefully after he conquered them; he lived with Christians in Medina even when muslims were majority". Are you still claiming that in this 21st Century, there is yet validity for any type of violent jihad based on these stated terms? Then, where is the 'Religion of peace" in violence? It is the same defense that Takfiris in the Islamic State use to justify their horror. The Muslim slaughter man who appears on video keeps saying they are decapitating Westerners in their captivity because US and Britain attacked them. They "peacefully" tax the Christians in their captured territories on the orders of quranic injunctions. So, how is your mindset different from that of the Takfiris?

We who are educated have the compulsory mandate to speak out now before the almajiris and their provocators take over and send us into early graves.

yazach: Firstly, are you a Christian? If yes, I think my points will make sense to you because I see a good reasoning in you post, but if you are an atheist, just ignore my comments because I don’t think it worth it to have online discussion with someone who denied existence of the creator.
Now my response
1- I think you know who Adolf Hitler was; was he killing Jews in response to God’s commandment
2- Crusader war, in response to who’s command? God? Even after some centuries have passed over the war commandment by God.
3- Am sure you heard of the recent seized 9.3 million arms issue which involve CAN president? If the Jet happen to belong to a Muslim, what do you think some useless Christians will be saying but now that it belong to Christians leader will it not Justify to say CAN are behind Boko Haram?
The bone of contention is that if somebody claims to be fighting for Allah, does that mean truly he is fighting for Allah sake or Allah truly command him to do so?

My Man, what will you say about this:
• 15th century: Crusades against Hussites, thousands slain. [DO30]
• 1538 pope Paul III declared Crusade against apostate England and all English as slaves of Church (fortunately had not power to go into action). [DO31]
• 1568 Spanish Inquisition Tribunal ordered extermination of 3 million rebels in (then Spanish) Netherlands. Thousands were actually slain. [DO31]
• 1572 In France about 20,000 Huguenots were killed on command of pope Pius V. Until 17th century 200,000 flee. [DO31]
• 17th century: Catholics slay Gaspard de Coligny, a Protestant leader. After murdering him, the Catholic mob mutilated his body, "cutting off his head, his hands, and his genitals... and then dumped him into the river [...but] then, deciding that it was not worthy of being food for the fish, they hauled it out again [... and] dragged what was left ... to the gallows of Montfaulcon, 'to be meat and carrion for maggots and crows'." [SH191]
• 17th century: Catholics sack the city of Magdeburg/Germany: roughly 30,000 Protestants were slain. "In a single church fifty women were found beheaded," reported poet Friedrich Schiller, "and infants still sucking the breasts of their lifeless mothers." [SH191]
• 17th century 30 years' war (Catholic vs. Protestant): at least 40% of population decimated, mostly in Germany. [DO31-32]
You still call this religion of peace?

I must tell you and I am not care either you believe me or not. Islam mean peace, if anybody claims to be fighting in the name of Islam then you should know the person is either a liar or trying to blackmail Islam. The media is to be blame for your misconception on Islam
CAN chairman(a pastor of baptist) in ask his member to disguise like muslim and throw banger in to his church after prophecy he claimed to receive from God that book haram will attack.
Assuming he succeeded, what will you think of muslims
Now I will shed light on conditions for Islamic war
1- It must be declared under Islamic State by Muslim leader(Single Leader) not Sect leader.
2- It should be fought if you are attacked and should be commanded by Islamic leader. The Prophet lived with pagan in Macca peacefully after he conquered them; he lived with Christians in Medina even when muslims were majority.

I am often amazed at how Muslims react to issues of faith. The quran itself predicts how their version of Jesus, the prophet, will return to this world to correct the opinion of his followers who believe that he is son of God and savior. Later writtings generally accepted by Muslims also expect a Madhi who is a savior from God and who will wage war on both the unbelievers and a Dijjal, who is like the Christian antichrist.

If indeed Muslims believe any of these, why can't they wait for the fulfillment of their predictions? Why do the average Muslim take up arms to defend the desecration of Islam, of the prophet and of the quran? Many lives - innocent lives - have been lost in pogroms disguised as religious riots against voices raised in opposition of Islam.

Enough is enough. The Muslim world needs to upgrade to avoid a complete destruction of the world by Jihads against the whole world, which can never succeed in this age and time, but will only lead to mass decimation of their rank and file. It's is no ruse. While it is true that a large number of people of other faith have been killed by Islamist jihads, many more Muslims have suffered and millions of Muslim lives have perished in the recent wars against terror.

Salman Rushdie is still in hiding to avoid sudden death through a 'fatwa' placed on him by Islamic leaders because of his critical and disparaging writtings about Mohammed. Saudi authorities and other Islamic administrations have destroyed large numbers of the Bible. Muslim clerics raise their voices to malign other religions, particularly Christianity. They use all manner of hateful words on Christ and His followers.

If other religious faithful decide to follow the footsteps of Muslims and take up arms in defense of their religion, no Muslim would be left in nations and regions where Muslims are in minority, because Muslims are more fond of hate speech against other religions.

Let's put some reasoning into this. Agreed, you have rightly quoted and I really don't care to join words on the veracity, morality or otherwise of those biblical quotes. But, let's come to terms with the 21st Century reasoning. If Jehovah said the Jews should eliminate 'His' enemies because of their opposition to His chosen people and grievous idolatry and now, they are no longer on that course, why are Muslims who claim that Allah has sent them to destroy 'their' enemies because they refuse to convert to their religion still bent on the path of bloodshed? Mind you, it is apparent in the quran that Mohammed commenced his wars only because he was attacked and his first premises for war was based on that until victory brought out the human ambition of territorial conquests for land and booty.

This is the 21st Century, my man. God ordered the destruction of the idolaters in Caanan and the people of Israel refused to complete the act by sparing those they chose to spare. Because of the failure of the Jews, Jesus came to offer peaceful restitution to all for sin and has declared salvation to those who will willingly accept and declared God's final judgement to those who refuse. That is what I will call a 'religion of peace', not one that still fans the embers of violence and destruction in this present time and situation

My take is that Islam too should allow people to willingly and peacefully chose and not throw the world into unnecessary conflagration. If truly you believe that your god is almighty and will bring judgement of destruction on the kafir as claimed in the quran, why not wait for that god to do it rather than try to do it on his behalf? It comes to reason then, that the One who is indeed God, has the capacity to deal with His enemies and does not require His faithful worshippers to do it for Him.

I remember that in Islamic history, when Mohammed was said to have destroyed the idols of his neighbors, his father challenged those who wanted to kill him by asking that they should leave judgement to their gods and they accepted. Why then are the extremist Islamists not taking a cue from this? Just simply reasoning shows that they do not believe that the god they serve is almighty enough to do it by himself.

yazach: A slowpoke WILL COME NOW AND SAY THIS IS OLD TESTAMENT AFTER WHICH JESUS HAD CLEARLY STATED HIS INTENTION OF NOT OPPOSING THE LAW BUT TO MAKE IT PASS AS IF GOD OF OLD TESTAMENT IS DIFFERENT FROM NEW TESTAMENT

1 Samuel 15 King James Version (KJV)

15 Samuel also said unto Saul, The Lord sent me to anoint thee to be king over his people, over Israel: now therefore hearken thou unto the voice of the words of the Lord.

2 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.

3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

EVEN WOMEN, INFANT, SUCKLING(IMAGINE), ANIMALS WERE NOT SPARED

THE QUESTIONS ARE:
1- WILL CHRISTIANS SAY GOD WAS NOT JUST AND KIND FOR GIVING THAT ORDER?(I SEEK REFUGE)
2- WE HEAR MEN, WOMEN, WHAT CONCERN INFANT, SUCKLING AND ANIMALS?

4 And Saul gathered the people together, and numbered them in Telaim, two hundred thousand footmen, and ten thousand men of Judah.

PastorKun: You are obviously not telling the truth, a lot of wars Muhammed embarked on were offensive and was also used as I veritable to spread and impose his ideology (Islam) on people. Muhammed preached peace amongst muslims but hatred towards un believers. Examples abound in their holy books and it is this example islamic terrorist follow.

The head of ISIS who is also an Arab man has a PhD in Islamic studies, surely you can't claim to have 5% of the knowledge he has of Islam and he defends all his actions using the quoran and the hadiths. You really need to stop trying to be politically correct and say the truth which I am quite certain you know.

Everybody knows that this is quite true. The start point was in defense from attacks of the warring tribes of Mecca and Medina, but when he became more victorious and prosperous, he decided to wage wars of conversion.

newsrescue.com/jonathan-govt-claims-responsibility-oritsejafor-israeli-10m-arms-smuggling-racket/?utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=twitterfeed#axzz3DMYyR3bd

"JonathanGovt. Claims Responsibility For Oritsejafor, Israeli $10m Arms-Smuggling Racket

The Nigerian government has opened talks with South Africa after an aircraft conveying $9.3m cash from Abuja, allegedly for arms purchase, was seized by the South African authorities.
Two Nigerians and an Israeli aboard the airplane were detained and are facing investigations for transporting the huge amount into South Africa.

It emerged on Tuesday that the jet is owned by Ayo Oritsejafor, who heads the Christian Association of Nigeria, CAN.

Mr. Oritsejafor denied knowledge of the arms deal saying the aircraft was managed by another company, Eagle Air Company, which in turn, leased the jet to a third party, Green Coast Produce Limited.
The two firms confirmed that claim in separate statements.

Details of the transaction remained vague beyond the revelations that the sum was meant for the purchase of arms for an unnamed Nigerian security agency.

In what appeared the first official confirmation of the deal, security personnel were quoted Tuesday as confirming the order and saying it was a normal practice to procure arms with cash.

Also, the Federal Government has released data and documents on the transaction, telling the South African government the transaction was “legitimate”, according to PRNigeria, an agency that regularly disseminates media statements for the military, police and other security agencies in Nigeria.
The report said talks between the two countries were at the governmental level and between the intelligence services of the two nations.

PRNigeria quoted a senior government official as saying that the South African Government only faulted “non-declaration” of the cash by the delegation from Nigeria.

“Nigeria and South Africa are getting closer to diplomatic resolution of the row over the $9.3m transaction. The two nations have opened up discussions,” PRNigeria quoted the official as saying.
“The Federal Government has submitted relevant data and documents on the transaction to South Africa and insisted that the transaction was legitimate.

“It also clarified that the funds were not laundered or smuggled for any covert manoeuvres. No launderer will be audacious to fly into a country in a chartered jet with such a huge cash.
“The technical details on security matters, which necessitated the desk, had been availed South Africa for screening.

“Based on initial scrutiny of the documents, the Challenger Jet has been released pending the conclusion of a full-scale investigation by South Africa.”

The source said South African authorities impounded the cash because of “procedural error”.
“There was procedural error at the airport, the team did not declare the $9.3million contrary to the aviation and customs laws in South Africa,” he said.

“So, there was an oversight on the part of the delegation that went to complete the transaction.
“Nigeria is trying to complete the formality and we are confident that the cash will be released for the purpose it was meant for.

“Movement of cash for strategic purchase of security equipment by intelligence service is not new; it is a global trend. The FBI, KGB, MOSSAD and others do it,” the statement said."

- See more at: https://www.premiumtimesng.com/headlines/168238-nigerian-govt-admits-ownership-of-9-3-million-arms-money-seized-by-south-africa.html#sthash.NbpJgURT.dpuf

I've been suspecting this all along. Won't be surprised to discover that some chaps in the NSA illegally awarded the contract to supply arms and ammunitions to themselves and are now trying to cover up by buying from the black market. Perhaps, they only hired the jet for this nefarious activity.

saharareporters.com/2014/09/16/national-security-adviser’s-office-fingered-arms-purchase-scandal-oritsejafor-admits


"The office of the National Security Adviser, Sambo Dasuki, has been fingered in the bungled arms purchase deal that involved two yet-to-identified Nigerians and an Abuja-based Israeli man, Eyal Mesika. In a series of interviews, Nigerian security sources told SaharaReporters that the men caught in South Africa with cash of close to $10 million had ties to the NSA’s office.

The Nigerian government has maintained a curious silence since the scandal broke on September 5 when South African law enforcement agents confiscated $9.3 million from two Nigerian private jets that landed at Lanseria Airport in Johannesburg. However, a source in the Presidency told SaharaReporters that the government had reached out to South Africa and explained that the arms purchase deal had Abuja’s official approval. Despite such assurances, the deal has continued to raise dust and trigger questions.

A source in Abuja said some intelligence professionals were questioning the propriety of using cash and secretive means to purchase weapons. “The use of raw cash by government to buy weapons abroad is not appropriate. Look at all the embarrassment now,” said the source. “It’s the kind of system used by criminals and shady organizations,” he added.

SaharaReporters reached Mr. Mesika by phone today in Abuja, but he said he had no intention of speaking about the gun purchase affair. He claimed that his trip to South Africa was to buy a “private helicopter,” but declined to answer further questions put to him by our reporter.

Court documents filed by South African prosecutors in order to obtain a freeze order for the cash differ from Mr. Mesika’s account.

A spokesman for South Africa’s National Prosecuting Authority disclosed that the country’s investigators found the Nigerian arms buyers with invoices from two South African firms called Tier One and ESD. The invoices were for armaments and a helicopter.

According to South Africa’s CityPress, “In court papers, the NPA submitted evidence that Tier One is not registered with the National Conventional Arms Control Committee and is thus not authorized to enter into any agreements regarding the sale and/or rental of military equipment.”

The paper further revealed, “The agreement between Tier One and ESD was concluded on September 8, three days after the money was seized at Lanseria.”

Meanwhile Pastor Ayo Oritsejafor, whose private jet was used in the transactions, has admitted to owning the Bombardier Challenger 600 jet used in ferrying cash to South Africa. Mike Awe, a media representative for the flamboyant pastor, who is also the president of the Christian Association of Nigeria (CAN), spoke to SaharaReporters and confirmed that the jet belongs to Mr. Oritsejafor. “I can confirm to you that Pastor Ayo Oritsejafor owns the jet,” Mr. Awe said in a phone conversation with SaharaReporters.

Mr. Awe said Mr. Oritsejafor was currently indisposed, adding that the pastor, who is a close confidant of President Goodluck Jonathan, had leased the jet to a third party company for use in air jet charters. He said Mr. Oritsejafor did not personally have knowledge of the trip to South Africa.

Mr. Oritsejafor’s ownership of the jet has raised several questions. One is that the plane seized by South African officials is actually registered in the US for use only as a private jet, not for commercial purposes. Another issue is whether Pastor Oritsejafor owns more than one jet. In 2012, members of his congregation presented him with the gift of a jet. However, the registration number of the jet detained by South African authorities differs from the registration details for the jet purchased by Mr. Oritsejafor’s congregants. In response to criticism of his acquisition of a private jet, the pastor had argued that he needed the jet to enable him to travel widely for events related to his ministry. The question then is whether the commercial leasing of a private jet is part of Mr. Oritsejafor’s ministry.
Mr. Awe was unable to respond to whether the pastor owns more than one jet. He stated that he could not reach Mr. Oritsejafor for clarification of the matter.
"

chemali: https://www.premiumtimesng.com/headlines/168224-can-president-oritsejafor-admits-ownership-of-cash-stacked-jet-seized-in-south-africa.html#sthash.2rL3QisX.dpbs

Let's hear the new defense now that Pastor Ayo has admitted he has interest in the company. It's a sad situation.

Well, if that's true, next we need to know who hired the jet, if the company was aware of the mission of the jet and if Rev. Oritsajefor personally knows about the transaction. We have to judge righteously and with equity too. There is always that possibility the the accused is guilty, or innocent.

firefox4th: Anybody with eagle eyes to differentiate ?

That moment... when you aren't sure of adding 2 plus 2 to make 4.