₦airaland Forum

NairaMinted: I have admitted already that I was overly zealous in that one post but m "lack of objectivity" and "me jumping into conlusions" or we could address each of the points I raised to see if there is a compelling case.....

I only posted those links to show the other view-points, other 'evidences' put foward by alternative news and throw suspicion on the Ukrainian separatists' and Russians, not to make conclusions. Your style of argument is what is known as 'begging the question'. You turn back and bully your adversaries rather than address the issues directly. Then you bring up how you have been right in the past, ignoring how you've been wrong. I know the style, but will never engage in it so that I don't insult the intelligence of others.
Even Einstein never argued this way.

For avoidance of doubt, I quote my post for you to indicate how I made any conclusions.

"Nairaminted, I will like you to copy and paste these url addresses to check out more news of the shooting of the Malaysian airliner. I always like a fair, objective, independent and balanced view of current affairs. Why would we want to pin the downing of the plane on Ukrainian military when there are evidences of culpability of the Ukrainian rebels as indicated in the above news reports?
Your take is that the plane could not have been downed by a simple missile trajectory launcher. That's true. But mark this report quoted from the first link I posted above on Ukraine separatists' possession of a more complex missile,
"... A US official also reportedly said a single surface-to-air missile, fired from a complex launch system, was suspected to have brought the jet down.
Last month a Russian military news channel reported a Ukrainian launcher had fallen into the hands of separatists.
A similar one was seen by journalists in nearby Snizhne yesterday...""

Anyway, knowing your styles of argumentation, I guess I shouldn't have challenged your point of view in the first instance as it's a worthless excercise arguing when we could wait to see the truth unfold. Just that even if the truth is discovered, I still smell 'conspiracy theories' coming up. Nobody wins an argument against the prodigy of Nairaminted!

Nairaminted, you just confirmed the errors I lay at your doorsteps again. I'll like to see more of this kind of posts quoted under, that show remorse over your jumping to conclusions on issues affecting the west and other nations rather than the usual refutal of your complicity in false flag conspiracy theories. In the other discussion stream, you admitted to error of your quick fix conspiracy theories. Here, you still insist that your theories are correctly placed. In this stream, you claimed not to have jumped into quick conclusions, but only raising questions, but in the other, you admitted from the under-quoted that indeed, you jumped too fast.

You still need to be more flexible to show objectivity. Sentimentalism and dogmatic support for one side against the other will never cut good arguments in intelligensia discourse. Objectivity and non-partisanship will foster better arguments that would not be not repulsive to sensibilities of other intelligent people. See how repulsive all4naija felt about your post. Good a thing you answered him with caution and decorum, else the argument would have resorted to an exchange of virulent attacks and abuses. This is exactly what I want us to avoid in the discussions.

all4naija wrote:

"That is total BS! You are back with your usual bullcrap! That is nonsensical! I find it interesting when you go sentimental and resort to all forms of conspiracy theories to support your views. That is the most disturbing part of your post."

You replied,

"Oh yes indeed! In hindsight I can tell that I was sentimental with that last post. Did I actually lay
blame directly at NATOs's feet in the las post? wOW! I shouldn't have allowed my sentiments get the
better of me. I was just typing passionately. I rather meant to say NATO/West is as well very capable
of such an act as their past actions ..."

The Fountain of Life Church, Ilupeju, Lagos

NairaMinted: HollyHolla,

If you want a fair, objective, independent and balanced view of this situation, then you should be able to see clearly that the headlines regarding MH17 emanating from the West are the most outrageous, irresponsible, hate-driven, dangerous propaganda I have ever read.

"Putin's Missile," "Putin Killed My Son," "With Jet’s Fall, War in Ukraine Becomes Global," - the headlines ... penned with absolutely no evidence at all to back up any of the claims ... echo the vitriolic war propaganda that inundated the global public when NATO gassed thousands of Syrians in Damascus in August 2013 - now confirmed to be a false flag.

Remember these headlines? "Bashar al-Assad kills 1,300 in Syrian nerve gas attack," "French president accuses Syria’s Assad of gassing his own citizens," and "Obama: Syria changed when Assad gassed citizens."

When it turned out NATO's regional partners had supplied terrorists with sarin and they were the ones behind the attack, the incident, despite allegedly killing over a thousand people and leaving many more ill, disappeared from headlines and is rarely if ever mentioned again. The "evidence" promised by the West never materialized and the UN NEVER determined who carried it out.

I will say that right now there is very little evidence to say what happened in Ukraine with flight MH17 - all I can do is look at what is most probable and wait for real evidence to emerge. What I am CERTAIN of however, is what the West is claiming - without evidence - are fabrications, lies, propaganda, and all fitting precisely the same diseased distortions used in their attempts to justify military intervention in Syria.

Remember how close it came? Imagine if they succeeded in launching an attack on Syria with what we now know about Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar's involvement in arming terrorists with sarin to carry out the August 2013 attack...


About the Russsian news channel that reported that a missile battery had fallen into the hands of separatists; it could very well be true BUT that still doesn't prove the separatists were responsible for downing MH17. Remember also that it was reported that the Ukranian Army too had deployed such batteries to that region a day or two before.

And about that video purpotedly showing separatists discussing the downing of the plane, it doesn't, first of all show a missile being fired. Second, how were the Ukranian authorities able to lay their hands on a footage only a few hours after the indicent? Third, if you read another post of mine, it clearly shows that that video was uploaded a day before MH17 was brought down! Finally, have you even considered the possibility that this video is actual an authentic footage of separatists celebrating the downing of a plane BUT in this case a military one from a previous attack. I believe you are an intelligent and enligntened individual that is capable of piecing all these together...


Let's not ever forget that the West is very adept and skillful at the art of propaganda and perception, shaping public opinion and shedding itself in a positive and humanesque light; potraying itself as a bastion of peace, freedom and liberaion. The West has got at it's disposal a myriad of these so-called think-tanks and NGOS (the likes of IRI, AEI, The Brookings Institute, Chatham House, NED, Soros Foundation, etc) that do it's bidding where the policies and strategies of the West that enable it to hold unto its economic and military strangehold of the world are actually are created.

Who can forget how a young lady claiming to be a nurse from Kuwait and just before the start of the first Gulf War, stood before American senators narrating tearfully how invading Iraqi soldiers were snatching Kuwaiti babies from their incubators at the hospitals. It later turned out that this story was a fabrication and that the young lady was actually the daughter of the Kuwaiti amabassador to the US. Her masterful performance however was enough to sway public opinion and soon after the senate granted their US administration their war.

Russia has to beat or at least match the West at its game. It has to collate all data or evidence it may have at it's disposal and should the Ukranian authorities be the culpable party, present its case in a detailed but yet clear, methodical and irrefutable manner. As a matter of fact, Putin himself should hold a press conference whereupon his case would be presented and within that conference, use the same words & phrases that the West loves to use - "tragedy", "criminal act", "act of terror", "perpetrators brought to book and made to face international law", "our hearts and prayers" etc.... What's more? Putin should do all this in English! Propaganda is all about perception and from what I have learnt so far speaking to the world in a foreign, strange language - Russian in this case - doesn't win you to the hearts and minds of people. How do you supose ISIS has been able to recruit so many young men from Europe? It has departed from the usual firebrand jihadist rhetoric normally employed by Islamic terror groups and adopted a "cool" and westernized style that appeals to young men in Europe to woo them

HollyHolla, What you rather should seek is the outcome of a full indepedent investigation and answers to the questions and demands that Russia has made of Ukraine in my ealier post.

Well, my dear friend, I'm not a fan of western military interventions, neither of their propaganda. But I'm not also a fan of Russian interventions and their propaganda too. Even much more, I am extremely wary and scared of Islamists military interventions which are laced with suspicion of a caliphate ressurrecting a Madhi empire that would result in fresh and more deadly rounds of violence and catastrophic conflagrations all over the world. If BH in Nigeria alone does not wake us up on our toes to the evil of Islamists, then I wonder what will. They are killing everybody, Muslims, Christians, Atheists, southerners, northerners, foreigners et al in crude and despicable manners!!!

If you notice from foregoings, I'm not the one who concluded that whatever comes from either side is false flag. But waiting a bit to see what all parties are saying, I can now safely conclude that your suspicion and conspiracy theories of definite western involvement in the shooting down of the Malaysian plane may actually be misplaced. That is why I'm involving in this discourse. You, my dear, stated categorically that the west must be culpable. I say, let's give time to know who is. Russia is no saint. They as well as the west and Islamists too are seeking to extend their empires at the expense of peace in the world.

I don't believe that whatever comes from a black pot must be black, so I hate to accept conspiracy theories without evidence. But seeing more and more evidence emerge from the incident, I'm more supicious of Russian involvement than western involvement. I am prepared to wait for outcome of independent investigations, my Brother. But are you?
Have you shown such preparedness?

I read your posts and at times I'm in agreement, while at other times I just decide not to intervene because most times, I don't see the independence and non-partisanship in your analyses. Most times, I share your concerns about western strategies too. Their military interventions, their support of renegades outside their territories and their supremacy ideals are repugnant. But you will definitely not prove to be as independent minded as claimed if you always support one side and condemn the other without final evidences and investigations and often come up with conspiracy theories. I see you doing just that, but I believe that It's time to sheath the swords of blames and wait to see what concludes.

If only your analyses could be more balanced, I will always want to engage you in intellectual discourse on global current events because I've noticed that unlike a lot of people who just follow public opinions and tabloid analyses, you are more capable of reasoning on your own. But my fear is that you are mostly unbending. Your defense of your position on this matter in spite of other expressed views confirms this, my friend. I wish we could engage more mutual intelligent discourse, but if you are always on one side, that could never be. And I definitely would to want to petty myself into virulent attacks on social media just because I want a discourse.

My adivice to you is, let's strive for more objectivity and reduce finger pointing and you will see other intelligent people like you popping up more on your posts.

More evidences linking pro-Russian separatists to the downing of Malasian airline.

www.businessinsider.com/malaysia-airline-evidence-russia-2014-7?utm_content=buffera5d54&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

edition.cnn.com/2014/07/20/world/europe/ukraine-rebels-weapons/index.html?sr=fb072014ukraineweapons3pstorylink

I believe we now know who actually shot down the airliner.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/mh17-crash-hear-moment-russian-3877080

www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/ukraine-intercepted-audio-shows-separatist-rebels-shot-malaysia-airlines-plane/

www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-17/ukraine-releases-youtube-clip-proving-rebels-shot-down-malaysian-flight-mh-17

Mark this report quoted from the first link I posted above on Ukraine separatists' possession of a more complex missile,

"... A US official also reportedly said a single surface-to-air missile, fired from a complex launch system, was suspected to have brought the jet down.

Last month a Russian military news channel reported a Ukrainian launcher had fallen into the hands of separatists.
A similar one was seen by journalists in nearby Snizhne yesterday..."

More evidence and actual footage of Ukrainian rebels using sophisticated missile to down the Malaysian airliner here:

2k14vide0finder.com/watchhere/MH17Crash.php/#

www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/mh17-crash-hear-moment-russian-3877080

www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/ukraine-intercepted-audio-shows-separatist-rebels-shot-malaysia-airlines-plane/

www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-17/ukraine-releases-youtube-clip-proving-rebels-shot-down-malaysian-flight-mh-17

Nairaminted, I will like you to copy and paste these url addresses to check out more news of the shooting of the Malaysian airliner. I always like a fair, objective, independent and balanced view of current affairs. Why would we want to pin the downing of the plane on Ukrainian military when there are evidences of culpability of the Ukrainian rebels as indicated in the above news reports?

Your take is that the plane could not have been downed by a simple missile trajectory launcher. That's true. But mark this report quoted from the first link I posted above on Ukraine separatists' possession of a more complex missile,

"... A US official also reportedly said a single surface-to-air missile, fired from a complex launch system, was suspected to have brought the jet down.

Last month a Russian military news channel reported a Ukrainian launcher had fallen into the hands of separatists.
A similar one was seen by journalists in nearby Snizhne yesterday..."

More evidence and actual footage of Ukrainian rebels using sophisticated missile to down the Malaysian airliner here:

2k14vide0finder.com/watchhere/MH17Crash.php/#

fredx4: Thanks to y'all. I just had a divine encounter and I guess I'll just have to believe the bible, whether I understand it or not.

Yeah, you're still a faithful like me. Thank God you didn't join the band of real faithfools. Now, where's that @jayriginal, who probably is an atheist in line wth biblical descriptions ... and where's my big gun?

fr3do: LIE

Shoosh! Don't let smart phone manufaturers hear you!

Tbillz: Lemme save U like a magician.mp3 android ft. Ice prince!

Thanks Brov. A good friend indeed!

sats: hidden battery power not working

Chinco phone?

Tolexander: All these you said, when i tried them on my Btech(chinco phone), they refused to function on the phone.

Most especially when i tried the car unlocking steps on my grandpa's 1980 series volkswagen(beetle), the car didn't unlock at all. It even took the intervention of the carpenter nearby to help cut the padlocks used to lock the car's doors with hammer.

Chinco phones aren't always smart and I'll suggest you call a welder to cut the padlocks on your pop's old beetle next time. Lol.

4 THINGS YOU PROBABLY NEVER KNEW YOUR MOBILE PHONE COULD DO

There are a few things that can be done in times of grave emergencies. Your
mobile phone can actually be a life saver or an emergency tool for survival.
Check out the things that you can do with it:

FIRST: Emergency
The Emergency Number worldwide for Mobile is 112.
If you find yourself out of the coverage area of your mobile; network and there is
an emergency, dial 112 and the mobile will search any existing network to establish the
emergency number for you, and interestingly this number 112 can be dialled even
if the keypad is locked. Try it out...

SECOND: Have you locked your keys in the car?
Does your car have remote keyless entry? This may come in handy someday.
Good reason to own a cell phone: If you lock your keys in the car and the spare
keys are at home, call someone at home on their mobile phone from your cell
phone.
Hold your cell phone about a foot from your car door and have the person at your
home press the unlock button, holding it near the mobile phone on their end.
Your car will unlock. Saves someone from having to drive your keys to you.
Distance is no object. You could be hundreds of miles away, and if you can
reach someone who has the other ' remote ' for your car, you can unlock the
doors (or the trunk)...

THIRD: Hidden Battery Power
Imagine your mobile battery is very low. To activate, press the keys *3370#
Your mobile will restart with this reserve and the instrument will show a 50%
increase in battery.
This reserve will get charged when you charge your mobile next time.

FOURTH: How to disable a STOLEN mobile phone?
To check your Mobile phone ' s serial number, key in the following digits on your
phone: * # 0 6 # and a 15 digit code will appear on the screen. This number is unique to your handset.

Write it down and keep it somewhere safe. When your phone get stolen, you can
phone your service provider and give them this code. They will then be able to
block your handset so even if the thief changes the SIM card, your phone will be
totally useless.

You probably won't get your phone back, but at least you know that whoever
stole it can ' t use/sell it either. If everybody does this, there would be no point
in people stealing mobile phones.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=690467087694463&id=174022196005624&refid=28&_ft_=qid.5966833868761719642%3Amf_story_key.8905665949740457898

The Bible states 3 simple steps to becoming an atheist and a 4th step to continue as an atheist.

The 1st, start thinking in your heart that there's no God. 2nd, start believing in your heart that there is no God. 3rd, start confessing it with your mouth that there is no God. 4th step, start living your life like there is no God.

Caveat Emptor: Be warned; the first 3 steps are described in the Bible as actions of a fool; the last as leading to eternal destruction.

Do I wish you good luck?

The US self-appointed global police fuelling insurrections in the Middle East, the Russians willing to give economic and military support to regimes for gains, the Saudis sponsoring violence to change regimes, the Iranians aligning for their own domination agenda, the Israelis on a mission to destabilize and cripple their enemies, Hezbollah exporting their brands of radical Islam to their neighbors ... yet the UN is idly watching while the whole world sits on a keg of gunpower. At times I wonder why we keep such an inept organization alive.

The House of Saud will definitely increase their tackle of Russia with terror wars to weaken their support for Syria. It's time to call off all forms of foreign military interventions in the Middle East, Palestine and Arabia, else the whole world would reek and reel at the consequences in the very near future.

ehixking: I love your write up because u are one of the few that could take time to do some reaserch to know about the catholic faith and from your write up I perfectly understand you. Am just like you any way but am a catholic but whatever I was taught in church I always take time to ask questions,research and do so many findings..one amazing thing I discorverd is that it is only the catholics that claims that Jesus himself sound the church,2) the bible was written by several authours under the inspiration of the holy spirit but where like anyother books till it was put together buy the church fathers,that's why we can't take away tradition from the church. The church understands the bible and it was until everyone started translating the bible that all these problem starts.
And pls no catholic worships mary we only honor her and ask for her intersection just like we ask pastors to pray for us

I very much appreciate your comment, my dear Sire, particularly, you have not resorted to violent attacks just because your faith is being challenged by another. I thank God for Catholics like you as I see you are one of those Catholics who take time to study the Bible to know what to believe and what to doubt.

Indeed, you have proved one of my most vital points; that not all Catholics follow dogma unquestionably and not all believe in church tradition above biblical standards. Pentecostals most often group all Catholics as non-Bible reading idolaters, and that is why Pastor Chris Okotie made the grave mistake of condemning all Catholics, which is what I am trying to correct.

I will want you to go a bit further into researching the disputed dogmas and practices of the Catholic church which are purely tradition based. I love your submission on the need for Church tradition to be included in Christianity and your conclusion that Catholics do not worship Mary. But my fear is that while tradition may not be offensive to Christian doctrine, any tradition that has no roots in the Bible should be treated as suspect and any tradition that has origin in pagan practices should be viewed vicariously. Furthermore, any tradition that distracts attention from Christ to focus on any other personality is very dangerous and must be seen as false.

If you research, you will discover that some Mariologists have gone over the brink in veneration of Mary. I quote Wikipedia, "Mark Miravalle  was a professor of theology at  Franciscan University of Steubenville, specializing in  Mariology. He is president of  Vox Populi Mariae Mediatrici, (meaning, a voice to advocate popular support for Mary to be declared as co-mediatrix and co-redemptrix), a Catholic movement promoting the concepts of the  Blessed Virgin Mary  as  Mediatrix  and  Co-Redemptrix with Christ". Miravelle advocated for Mary to be declared as a part of the Trinity on same level with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

You might say no Catholic worships Mary, but Mariologists and those who visit Marian shrines to worship do, and directly too. Do a research on the Franciscans and other Mariologists, including Prof Miravelle.

From my days in a Catholic High school, I have always been uncomfortable with the idea of bowing down to the figures and figurines of Mary, which many practice without really giving it a deep thought. If this does not translate into worship, then I should also have the privilege to bring back the images of Ogun, god of Iron, which my forefathers worshipped and bow to them and claim that I am not worshipping them, only adoring my ancestors. Every graven image are the same, even if they are images of the Divine Trinity, and bowing to them violates the 1st and 2nd Commandments.

Pope John Paul II attributed his salvation from the assassin's bullets to Mary. Is Christ not the only one capable of saving us according to the Bible? When alive, the late pope, as well as so many other Marian worshippers, supported the efforts to declare Mary as co-divinity.

Why Sire, may I ask, should you expect Mary to make intercessions for you when you can approach the Throne of Grace directly through the name of Christ and by only the blood of Christ that was shed? The Bible never taught that Mary's sacrifice of her Son for the world turns her into an object of divinity or reverence, neither did the early Church Fathers. Christ pointed the other way when an enquirer tried to venerate Mary in Luke 11 : 27-28, to explain that not only Mary is blessed, but everyone that hears and follows the will of God. This is what the Bible says, not me. Have you tried to truly research the origin of this concept of approaching Christ through Mary?

Anyway, I know these are questions will prod your mind and as you have written that you search before believing, I know that you will find out more about them to discover the truth before believing. Once again, I love bright minds like yours who refuse to allow dogma to override biblical truth. If you require, I could foward to you a short 40-page Word program extract of my thesis on these submissions that show the origins of some of these beliefs and practices, which may guide in furthering your research.

When it comes to Christian worshippers in churches, there are so many who never believe that their leaders can ever be wrong. I call them, "worshippers of man-made gods". No matter what their leaders do wrong, and no matter what he or she does not do right, they believe that those leaders are always right. It's time to realize that no leader is perfect and everyone can be wrong. The Bible is filled with the goods deeds and mistakes of both leaders and followers, to show us examples of how to truly be godly.

I detest all forms of human efforts at power play in the Church. Why would a man of God, any man of God whatsoever, join issues with any person(s)? "Love your enemies", "turn the other cheek", "as long as it lies within your power, be at peace with ALL men" and "our battle is not against flesh and blood, but against the powers working for the evil one", are all biblical injunctions for everyone, not fight back your opponents with police harassments and press/pulpit publicities. Even if a man of God would have to lose the very last shirt on his body, I expect God's instructions to superceed any other efforts. Who owns the church anyway? If it is God, then let Him be the one to fight the battle.

We all need to rethink and return to biblical principles rather than fight fruitless battles against our opponents just to defend ourselves or our mortal leaders.

Are All Catholics Going to Hell?
I have often heard Christians of other denominations, including ministers of the gospel, some of who are very reverred in society, say that all Catholics are going to hell. At times, it's quite intriguing to discover that we often generalize matters either positively or negatively, without exception.

Many times, it occurs to me that there are many Catholics who are quite ignorant of the idolatory of the church. At the same time, there are others who know Catholic doctrines are not necessarily biblical in outlook, but still adamantly follow and justify the teachings and practices.

I recently sent a message to a group of nuns called, "The Daughters of St. Paul" for a clarification of their Catholic doctrines on the divinity of the Virgin Mary. I will want to share my communication with them directly.

I asked, "I am currently studying about the Marian cult in Catholic Church. I have been reading much on Mariology, especially as regards the position and role of the Virgin Mary in salvation and intercession for the world. I have read as much that many Mariologists state that Mary should be placed at par with God the Father, Christ and the Holy Ghost in the Trinity. Most of what I have read are often backed by biblical passages by the writers, yet still require more illumination for proper understanding.

"Could you please enlighten me on the Marian theology, please?"

They replied, "In regard to Mary it's important to refer to sources of official Catholic teaching on Mary, such as the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Anyone who would put Mary on a par with the Trinity is actually not following Catholic teaching, for Mary is a creature, not God. But God has given her an important role to play.

"Since this is a large topic and much can be said, I could refer you to the Mary Page at the University of Dayton, which is a gold mine of information about Mary. It is all according to correct Catholic teaching. I hope this will help; when you go there click on the left where it says "About Mary."

God bless you".

They provided this link ( http://campus.udayton.edu/mary/ ).

I took time to read the doctrinal beliefs on the website I was directed to. Apart from the regular Catholic doctrines which are based on church traditions, there were hardly any false doctrines to point people directly to idolatory. In fact, it was specifically stated on the website that many of the doctrinal beliefs and practices are based on church tradition and could not be specifically substantiated by scriptural passages.

Then, I wrote back, "Thanks for your quick response. I really appreciate. I will not want to belabor the topic as I have seen from the references you asked me to check, that most of the dogma about the Virgin Mary are Catholic traditions and not fully Bible based."

From these submissions, I notice that not every Catholic worships Mary. In the same vein, not all Catholics practice the idolatory of bowing down to idols in church or worshipping at the Marian shrines. Even though, some may ignorantly believe and accept wrong doctrines, it may not necessarily translate into condemnation. Even those Pentecostals and other denominations that condemn all Catholics have vestiges of idolatory and extreme forms of wrong doctrines embedded into their beliefs and practices.

Often, some Christian denomination believe that they are the only ones who have experienced the Christian born again experience. On the website of Pauline Sisters, I read a testimony by a nun, Sister Jenny Lynn Pelzel, who described her salvation experience. She had earlier thought that being a Catholic church goer was enough for her to be a true Christian. At the age of 17, she had an encounter with Jesus that made her turn her life completely over to the Lord in an experience usually referred to by Pentecostals and Evangelicals as "born again". Anyone interested could read it at (  www.franciscansisterstor.org/about-us/meet-the-sisters/jenny-lynn-pelzel/ ).

Sometime ago, Pastor Chris Okotie of the Household of God's church was reported to have publicly declared, "All Catholics are going to hell", while preaching a Sunday sermon on his pulpit. However, given the nature of controversies in which the man is usually enmeshed, it came to me as no surprise to hear such statements uttered by him. But come to think of it, this same church from which the man of God condemned all Catholics to hell is well renowned as being filled with congregation who care less to demand accountability from their General Overseer over church and personal matters, but sheepishly follow their leader as if he were a god. What right have such people to condemn others? Unfortunately, this may seem as one of the notable examples, but I see the same thing in virtually all churches, with hardly any exceptions.

This should not come as a surprise too. Reading the first 3 chapters of the book of Revelation, we find analyses of doctrines and practices in the 7 prominent churches in Asia Minor during the time of John the Apostle. Out of the 7, only 3 came out fairly clean and the other 4 were condemned as congregations for outright ungodly beliefs and practices. But there were still individuals in the church congregations that received condemnations, who refused to be tainted with the false doctrines and practices, just as there were some in the churches that were not condemned, who would not be saved at the end because of their individual falsehoods. From this, I have learnt never to condemn any church people as a group or justify any other as a group. Christianity is entirely a matter of personal relationship with God.

The Bible is specific in stating that each individual is saved or condemned by his personal beliefs and actions, not by group beliefs and actions. So, while many people in the Catholic church may not be saved just as in all other churches, many also in the Catholic church would be saved just as in all others. It therefore, behooves on each individual to guard his or her heart jealously and diligently regarding the doctrines they believe and practice and not just follow the group sheepishly.

In the late 70s and very early 80s, there was a group in the Catholic church which was called "Catholic Charismatics". This group sought genuinely to change some of the beliefs and practices in the church at the time and also share Charismatic experiences of Pentecost. At the beginning, they made tremendous impacts until they were later rejected and expelled by the church authorities and replaced with leadership that believe strictly in regular Catholic church dogma.

The same goes for other groups like the Daughters of St. Paul, which I mentioned earlier. When I went through the resources posted by this group on their beliefs and practices, I found some wrong concepts common in Catholic dogma, yet I saw a group of women who really seem to crave to serve God sacrificially and faithfully. I will therefore not want to condemn such people who could even be truer worshippers in spirit and in truth than the Protestant groups that condemn all Catholics.

So, my conclusion is, "Not all Catholics are going to hell and not all Catholics are going to heaven". Similarly, "Not all Protestants will make heaven".

When I read this article on two different web pages last night, I felt the need to wait for events to unfold, and confirm the truth before making any posts or comments on the report.

Sure enough, the fact that there is no Third Vatican Council, not to talk of it's being concluded, was enough reason for caution. The last I heard, Pope Francis has only set up a committee to review some of the Catholic church's principles and has not summoned a Third Vatican Council.

Goatie says, "Thank God, I escaped their Christmas murder plan this year and so, I was able to take this picture. Till next year again, God help and save me from Nairalanders".

I say, "Merry Christmas to all Nairalanders!"

Goatie says, "Thank God, I escaped their murder plan this year and so, I was able to take this picture. Till next year again, God help and save me from Nairalanders".

I say, "Merry Christmas to all!"

Let's forgive her. She has apologised and it appears she may also be paying with the loss of her job.

(CNN) reports -- "Justine Sacco, a former PR executive who sparked a firestorm of controversy on Twitter, apologized Sunday for her "needless and careless tweet" about AIDS in Africa.
In a written statement. Sacco apologized "for being insensitive to this crisis -- which does not discriminate by race, gender or sexual orientation, but which terrifies us all uniformly -- and to the millions of people living with the virus, I am ashamed."
She added that she is a native of South Africa and was upset that she had hurt so many people there.
"I am very sorry for the pain I caused," she wrote..."

""This is an outrageous, offensive comment that does not reflect the views and values of IAC," the company said. "Unfortunately, the employee in question is unreachable on an international flight, but this is a very serious matter and we are taking appropriate action."

The statement led many to believe that Sacco would be reprimanded or even terminated when she landed in South Africa..."

Read full CNN article here.

www.cnn.com/2013/12/22/world/sacco-offensive-tweet/index.html?sr=fb122213saccoapology930a

Ukuts gp, I see you have initiated another thread on the Catholic Marian doctrines here and while wishing that everyone tries to find out the real truth about doctrines surrounding the concepts of Holy Mary, I will once again share this write up for enlightenement and fruitful discussions.

I know there would certainly be objections to my submissions, but as "deep calls to deep", I'm hoping for intellectual variations and objections from those who may have also done their research and studies rather than frivolous attacks.

The origins and Development of the Concepts of Holy Mary and the 'Queen of Heaven':

Historical research has proved that the belief in ancient Babylonian concept of ghosts informs present Roman Catholic teachings about strange appearances, apparitions and visions of Mary. This belief in ghost-saints originated from the ancient Babylon’s religious doctrine in Semiramis, the ‘Queen of Heaven’, who was said to be appearing in different locations and shapes. Similar to the Catholic veneration of Mary is the Babylonian belief in Semiramis, who taught that living or dead, she was in control of peoples’ lives and could petition the Sun god on behalf of the people. This is also the origin of goddesses like Venus, Diana, Isis, Madonna and the rest.

It started from from ancient Babylonian origins in a certain Roman Cult of Isis, which worshipped a mother goddess with her infant son, Horus. Isis, they believed, played a prominent role as protector of the sailors at sea, and her image was carried as emblem of several ships. It was the importation of this belief into the Church that prompted the imaging of the Mother Mary carrying her little vulnerable son in her arms. That is why Jesus is usually pictured as a boy in the arms of Mary.

The deeper origin of the doctrine is in the story of Tammuz’s death, which resulted in great grief and sorrow to his mother, Semiramis, wife of Nimrod, who was both mother and incestous wife to her son after the death of Nimrod. Variation of the story involving Semiramis and Tammuz later resulted in a story concerning Tammuz and Ishtar (another representation of Semiramis), who were said to be mother and son. Semiramis went into the world of the dead in pursuit of her son, Tammuz, in order to bear him back in her arms, while the women of Babylonia mourned. This mourning later became a religious practice and was highlighted in a heathen practice in the Hebrew Temple recorded and condemned in Ezekiel 8: 14.

Ancient Babylonians ascribed the period of disappearance of vegetation to that which the son of Semiramis descended into the underworld after death. By weeping for Tammuz, the Cult of Babylon believed that vegetation would be restored, as the god would appear once again.

Other doctrines around the ancient Babylonian Queen of Heaven, which later were adopted to fit into the Roman Catholic concept of the Virgin Mary include dogmas of the immaculate conception of Mary, her sinless nature, her motherhood of the Church, eucharistic devotion to Mary and her assumption into the heavens. As history has it, these became Catholic doctrines because several places that were used in worship of the female deities before the declaration of Constantine in Rome were just converted into Christian worship. Conversion of Roman pagan temples into churches at the declaration of Constantine ensured that many of the practices existing in those temples originating from imbibed religious practices of ancient Babylon were also converted to comply with Christian thoughts, principles and doctrines.

It has been historically proved that many pagan worship centers were actually changed to Christian worship centers after Rome became Christian by the edict of Emperor Constantine. Examples of early churches from the conversion still in existence today include Santa Maria Antiqua church in Rome and Santa Maria church in Aracodi built on the Capitol Hill where a celestial-virgin Carthaginian goddess, Tanit used to have her Temple. The Santa Maria Maggiore Church of Esquline was also built on the same site of the Temple of Cybele, who was regarded by the Romans as the mother of all the gods.

Veneration of the mother goddess imported from the Babylonian Cult was common in Roman religious cults at the time Constantine changed the religion of Rome to Christianity. There was also Juno, the Roman goddess, who they believed played the dual role of protecting pregnant women and guardian of cities and was referred to as ‘Our Lady’. Athena Polias was another goddess usually referred to by that title. These particular conceptions of female goddesses later came to represent the Virgin Mary after all Rome compulsorily became Christian with the mandatory edict of Constantine to convert all Romans to Christianity.

It is not in Catholic doctrines alone that we have predominance of doctrines of a mother goddess. Worship of Mary is a rallying point for several religions because it is in consonance with several Oriental, Asian, Middle East, African and ancient European religious practices. Traces of this religion of Semiramis exist in religions of more than five billion out of the Earth's current population of over six billion. The Hindu religion, which has almost a billion adherents, venerates the goddess called Santhana-Lakshmi. The representation of this goddess is symbolism of a mother and child, just like the Roman Catholic depictions of Mary and the Boy Jesus. There are similar stories in Yoruba tradition of Olurombi and Moremi, whose sons were taken away to the world of the dead and who followed to bring them back.

Worship or veneration of a Mother goddess was prominent in Israel at stages of their backslidding from true worship of Yaweh. When the high places built right inside the Temple in Bethel was excavated, archeologists found figurines of Ashteroth described as semi or totally nude female with a dull look on her face. The same types of figures and figurines are now used to depict the ‘Virgin Mary’ in statues or statuettes in the Catholic Church, only now with flowing robes, not nude, but the facial expression remains the same. Ashteroth was to the ancient Babylonian Cult what ‘Virgin Mary’ is to the Catholics. Both are none other than different representations of Semiramis. Regarded as female gender of God, the goddess, Ashteroth, was bowed down to, worshipped and prayed through as the ‘mother of God’ as is currently practiced in Roman Catholicism and other religions.

Is it a surprise that Franciscan University, Steubenville, Ohio Professor, Mark Miravalle, who died in 2004 before realizing his dreams, was at the core of a revolutionary demand by several Catholics to enthrone the Virgin Mary as the third or fourth person in the Godhead? The professor solicited and received signed petitions asking Pope John Paul II to exercise his absolute power to proclaim a new and highly debated Catholic dogma declaring the Mary as co-redeemer and partner in the order of Godhead with Jesus, the Father and Holy Spirit. The move, which started about 1997, generated more than 6 million signatures from Catholics from over 148 countries all over the world, including at least 600 Bishops, 42 Cardinals (current and deceased) and particularly from Mother Theresa before her demise.

Many cardinals in the Vatican are also ardent supporters of the move. It is not a completely new move. As far back as the 14th century, Catholics, including popes and cardinals, have touted the belief in Mary at par or even superior to Christ. New church dogmas surfaced to the effect that Mary did not taste corruption after death, but was physically transported to heaven body, soul and spirit and that she was born in a nature of Immaculate Conception and never was contaminated by Original Sin. Many popes, including late John Paul II and Pope Benedict are staunch believers in the worship of Mary. Over the Catholic faithful, popes are credited with the same powers that belong to Christ with absolute authority as the Vicar of Christ on Earth. It would, therefore, not be impossible for a pope to declare Mary as part of the Godhead.

This may seem impossible, except to anyone who actually understands the true role accorded to Mary by her devotees. In the concept known as Immaculate Conception, Marians (ardent followers of Virgin Mary) believe that she was born without original sin, that she never sinned throughout her life, that she performed the perfect will of God all through her life, that she never required the gift of salvation offered to the world by her son because she was perfect and sinless, that she never tasted death, but was transported straight to Paradise without visiting Purgatory and that she was actually a part of the provision of salvation to mankind and presently also, a co-intercessor with Jesus in Heaven and therefore, deserves an eucharistic devotion. Is it a coincidence that exactly same attributes are accorded to Semiramis, Queen of ancient Babylon, but none of the concepts can be directly proved from the Bible?

The mysterious ancient Babylonian religion involved the worship of father, mother and son gods as represented by Nimrod, Semiramis and Tammuz. Declaration of Mary as part of the Godhead would therefore be a reincarnation of the old Babylonian religion, revealing the Mystery Babylon of Revelation chapter 17. We would notice that most of the statues and statuettes of the ‘Virgin Mary’ used in Catholic worship have this sad look. Even the apparitions seen of Mary have always worn the sad look, while in some others the ‘Virgin’ is seen shedding tears of blood. Why would Mary be so sad? After all, her Son has been resurrected and raised into glory. The answer is simple; because the Virgin Mary of Catholics is not the real Mary, the mother of Jesus who has since died and joined the other saints in Heaven. The Catholic Mary is actually Semiramis, weeping for her son Tammuz; a creation of the Cult of Babel.

Many Catholic apologists who defend the Marian doctrines are unaware that even the Vatican Council II document admits that the worship of Mary is not a scriptural practice, but a tradition recommended by the church authorities as developed over the centuries. But the document yet backs the practice so vehemently that it teaches that it should be generously fostered. Similar to ancient Babylonian religion, the Catholic Marian doctrine claims that Mary, being the mother of Jesus is even as important as, if not more important than Jesus Christ, Himself.

But, is Mary Blessed? How? The Bible says, “And it came to pass, as He spoke these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto Him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. “But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the Word of God, and keep it”.  Luke 11: 27 – 28. The angel called Mary blessed in Luke 1: 28, referring to her being favored among women as to be chosen to bear the Lord, called the Son of the Highest. As the angel inferred, Mary remains blessed, only because she believed in the spiritual work of her Son and Lord, and accepted it, just as other Christians. Historically, we learn that Mary was one of the disciples of Jesus and this is confirmed by Act 1:14.

As scriptures state, Mary is blessed. But if she had not believed in Christ, she would not have remained blessed. So, the scripture also concludes, are blessed, all those who "hear the Word of God, and keep it".

aManFromMars: Come on, we've heard your stories and appreciate your concern. Spare us the preaching. I'm asking nicely, thanks.

That's more like showing good manners. Since you asked politely, I'll oblige you. But tell your friends to sheath the sword. The Sword of Damocles knows no reprieve when it swings.

Ha!I_aintNoJoke:
blaa blaa cool story!

Yeah, cool story. B(l)aah, b(l)aah black sheep, have you any pooh, ... one for your boss, one for your dame and one for your little kid crying in the room.

joudini: HolyHolla, do you realise that personal anecdotal evidence is inadmissible as scientific fact because it has no variable to serve as scientific control?

Do you realise that in the event of having a model created to test this anecdote and it is found to be inconsistent with majorly held scientific proofs, even if it is minutely true, it is classed an outlier, and this has no place in scientific analysis?

Are you then for a second, suggesting (through your use of an obviously imbalanced Majek and screaming that this is what weed causes) that your personal experience, an anecdote, supersedes painstaking clinical and laboratory researches by certified experts in regulated control environment conducted on thousands of people over decades and published in peer review journals?

See, i am not saying science is always the absolute truth(actually nothing can be closer to the truth than objective science) but one thing we can always be grateful for is that science has thrown more light on the darkness of our ignorance.

Oh no. I never wrote that weed caused Majek's state. I have not even condemned weed smoking but only asked that we dont preach the good news only so that some would not see only the positive and get hooked before they can know how to make choices. These are the points I can remember I've made so far in this thread. I may have inferred that if Majek never got into weed, he may probably have been saved the higher steps of doping hard. Some stay at weed and remain useful to society. Some step from there into other stuff. Some who even stop at weed still have lighter heads and go off the brink. Those have been my points. No insinuations intended too. I identify with weed smoking, having been on that road too.

We're not all the same. For this particular reason alone, I refuse to probe deeper into methods of scientific evaluation and verification. I chose to depend on my personal experiences, no matter how trivial I may seem. Science itself is yet to succeed in answering several questions so I can't totally depend on it. So, please permit me to depend on my myopic opinions of my personal experimentation with weed, which I glossed over without details, so I wont need to provide journals to my defence, my dear friend.

lance4luv: .
###MUST READ###

Click:

https://www.nairaland.com/1532526/experience-weed

.

This is one of those I was referring to. Experiece, they say, is the best teacher.

Anytime I use Airtel for network connection, I always end up promising myself never to try it again, no matter the appeal. But then, they come up again with another mouth watering offer and I grab it, only to promise myself at the end, never to make the mistake again.

I once called their operator number and the LadyVoice at the other end advised that I should only go for the regular offers next time. What a great advice from an insider. In another instance, I sent a complaint message to their 'geek' on FB a few months back and ended up having more questions than answers. For one, he advised me to just make do with the N100 bonus I got even though I loaded N1,000 because their advert promised 100% and I was hoping for N2,000 bonus.

Now, again, I've promised myself never to try another chance of Airtel browsing. To me, they have said I should just go, and sin no more... and I hope I will.

joudini: HolyHolla, do you have any credible and objective citation from peer-reviewed medical journals where it is stated that weed is expressly addictive?
Please bear in mind the popular Pavlov experiment in classical conditioning in case you wish to cite 'behavioural addiction'.

From decades of review of international research on marijuana, both laboratory and survey research, between 10-30% of regular users will develop dependency. Only about 9% will have serious addiction. Is this what people unobjectively extrapolate on the whole population size?

Citations from pharmacology journals supporting your massive claims would be highly appreciated.

Good reasoning, my Man. I like it when people are man enough to reason and argue objectively rather than engage in unnecessary invectives, which only shows a low ilk.

I never portend everyone would be addicted, I only said experientially, I was. You are not wrong, but I was probably in the category of that 10-30% that developed dependency or the addicted 9%. Maybe, so also some others who may venture could be like me. I don't need to go pharmacologic to prove addictiveness. Just take me as case study and part of citation in that research you requested.

aManFromMars: Smh. What a doofus.

Hahaha. I chose to be free from pot and I become a doofus. You chose to stay a pothead and you're the smart aleck! Come on Boy, you need to port, and fast too.

GustavoFring: It's your type that will go to a mosque to preach the gospel citing democratic rights.

Well, anyway you see it, you've got to cut me some slacks. Everyone's got his choices to make, even if I enter Boko Haram camp brandishing a large Bible. It's my choice to get my severed head on a platter if they want.

If you so hate democracy, I should expect you move over to Iran, or Afghanistan, or Sudan or some other place to prove it. Perhaps, if you stop the undemocratic posture, I could long have been done with my scanty submission on the thread and gone to rest. But as long as I face any challenge, It's got to be like a man. I honor everyone, but I don't cow for nobody.

I wouldn't have minded if you were only sharing your experience as a pot smoker, but when you think you should encourage it, you've another 'think' coming up. My own children and wards are also on NL!!!

GustavoFring: Mate that's good for you and I'm happy for you...

But why you bringing this negative vibe here na?

You dont smoke....We don hear...What are you still doing on a thread for active smokers?

Just being a Nairalander like everyone else... a democratic right, mate. Got any problem with that?