₦airaland Forum

Abdulsalam20: Gabriel is mentioned 3 times in the Quran by name.
002:097
"Say: Whoever is the enemy to Gabriel (Jibril) - for indeed he revealed it to your heart by God's
permission, confirming that which is before it (co-existent) and a guidance and glad tidings for
the believers"
002:098
"Whoever is an enemy to God and His angels and His messengers and Gabriel (Jibril) and
Michael (Meekael), then indeed God is an enemy to the disbelievers."
066:004
"If you both turn to God, then indeed your hearts are already inclined (to this); and if you back
up each other against him, then indeed God, He it is Who is his Guardian / Protector, and
Gabriel (Jibril) and righteous believers and the angels after that are his assistants."



reference tomichael

Mikaeel is referred to in verse ( 2:98
Sahih International : Whoever is an enemy to Allah and His angels and His messengers and Gabriel and Michael - then
indeed, Allah is an enemy to the disbelievers.

michael is the angel responsible for rain

Gabriel is God... Michael is God... Uriel is God... Lucifer is God... you are God... i am god... All shenanigans. Get us some real facts.

Abdulsalam20: I HAVE ADRESS IT I SAID STORY IN THE BIBLE ARE NOT AUTHENTIC AND IS IRRATIONAL MOST ESPECIALLY GENESIS AND I PROVE IT TO YOU THAT THE BOOK HAS BEEN CORRUPTED.........BUT I THINK YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TOJUSTIFY YOUR RELIGION AND SAY IT IS FALSE WITH GREAT REFERENCE

Corrupted or not, Mohammed copied from them.

Abdulsalam20: LET ME FIRST ASK YOU DID YOU BELIEVE THAT QURAN IS COPIED FROM BIBLE?........YOUR ANSWER SHOULD BE YES OR NO PLSSSSSSSSS AND PLSSSSSSSSSS

You can as well ask me if I believe that I'm typing this message right now or not. What have I been saying since?

Without any doubt of the facts I have presented so far and many more that I could present, Mohammed copied stories of the Bible as well as other books but being illiterate to read by himself, he only heard some of the stories from which he concocted other stories to suit his own messages. Point blank truth.

I'm not the first to accuse Mohammed of copying. The scholars of his time who knew better than his illiterate followers did too, and all he could say was not convincing enough to make us believe he did not copy. In fact, he admitted to copying

"When we substitute one revelation for another, - and Allah knows best what he reveals - they say, "Thou art but a forger" but most of them know not" The Bee XVI 101.

"We know indeed that they say, "It is man that teaches him". The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this is Arabic, pure and clear" The Bee XVI 103.

My answer is a capital YES. Stories in the Quran are copy and paste gone wrong!!!

Abdulsalam20: DID YOU WATCH THE VIDEO?.......IGNORANCY...........HE DIDNT QUOTE ANY VERSE............HE IS SPEAKING JUST LIKE HE WAS PAID TO DO SO............A MUSLIM IS KNOWN WITH THE LEVEL OF KNOWLEDGE HE HAVE...........SO I WILL SAY HE IS NOT REPRESENTING ISLAM BECAUSE AS YOU CAN SEE THE VERSE OF TERROR POSTED BY YOUR BROTHERS I HAVE EXPOSE THEM THEY QUOTE HALF A VERSE NON OF THEM HAVE BEEN ABLE TO BRING A VERSE WHICH SAY KILL PEOPLE INNOCENTLY


THEY CANT FIND IT.......SO THAT TRASH.......LIVE A LIFE THAT HAVE EVIDENCE MAN STAND ON WHAT CAN BE VERIFIED NOT ON HATRED

I have no hatred of Islam or Muslims. You should see I never use hate words on my posts. I rather find them funny... ridiculously funny. The greatest and most acclaimed Islamic scholars say the Caliphate is Islamic, and minor preachers are trying to prove otherwise. I like the Op of this thread. He was sincere enough to admit that he was not concerned about proving whether it is true that Quran encourages violence or not, but just to appeal to his fellows to renew their minds and upgrade. That, is what i call an intellectual.

proo212: HolyHolla, you try fa......Reading all these arguments is exhausting, how much more reading and responding!

I will derail the thread slightly.

The verse quoted below shows another example of Mohammed using a mishmash of what he heard to attribute a revelation from Gabriel

Surah 66:10 Yusuf Ali


Tafsir of Al-Jalalayn Surah 66:10



According to this verse of the Quran, Noah's wife and Lot's wife are in hell because they disobeyed their husbands!!! Their names were not mentioned in the bible...Where did Al-Jalalayn get the names from and how come the names are similar?

Gen 19:15-17


I studied Gen 6 to Gen 11, chapter for chapter and nowhere was it written that Noah's wife ever disobeyed him. Lot's wife disobeyed the angel of God and not Lot. She disobeyed a command not to look behind her and she did.

In this case, the Quran is false with these accounts.

proo212 you haven't seen anything yet. If I decide to go into the various concoctions of myths that Mohammed introduced while trying to quote stories in the Bible, apocryphal and gnostic books, you would realize that the Islamic nature of distorting stories and making clowns of facts to entertain people is inherent till today. It's the same way Islamic scholars still entertain us with various stories that sound absurd, just for impression. I usually like to have my fun at laughter while listening to these Islamic preachers on their megaphones and loudspeakers. Particularly, in cases where the preacher says something, and the repeater (AROWASI) says another form completely off the point, but funny. A set of jokers, better even than Chief Zebrudiah.

Emperor4God: Please dont say that Boko Haram does not represent Islam.

Also dont say that Islam is like Christianity & Judaism?
Both reject violence, while Islam preaches violence

Listen A Muslim Scholar And Child Of Imam Say's Boko Haram & Isis Represent Islam and are following the quoran


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxzOVSMUrGM

Thank God, some are willing and able to tell the truth rather than hiding behind one finger of shenanigans.

Abdulsalam20: @ proo212

genesis 35:22
While Israel was living in that region, Reuben went
in and slept with his father's concubine Bilhah,
and Israel heard of it. Jacob had twelve sons:

SO A PROPHET OF GOD HAS CONCUBINE......SEE RUBISH AND HIS SON NOW WENT TO SLEEP WITH THE CONCUBINE..........GENESIS IS A FALSE BOOK...........I WILL GIVE YOU MORE

ALSO
GENESIS CHAPTER 38 VERSE 15-18

When Judah saw her, he thought she was a
prostitute, for she had covered her face. Not
realizing that she was his daughter-in-law, he went
over to her by the roadside and said, “Come now, let
me sleep with you.”
“And what will you give me to sleep with you?” she
asked.
“I’ll send you a young goat from my flock,” he said.
“Will you give me something as a pledge until you
send it?” she asked.
He said, “What pledge should I give you?”
“Your seal and its cord, and the staff in your hand,”
she answered. So he gave them to her and slept with
her, and she became pregnant by him. After she
left, she took off her veil and put on her widow’s
clothes again...........SEE HOW PROPHET OF GOD IS EMBARASSED JUDAH SLEEPING WITH HIS DAUGHTER INLAW WHOM HE THOUGHT WAS A PROSTITUTE....HE GOT PREGNANT FOR HIM JUST RUBBISH ....SO HE HAS BEEN SLEEPING WITH PROSTITUTE BEFORE.......MEHN THIS IS ENOUGH TO DECLARE GENESIS AS FALSE BOOK BUT I WILL GIVE YOU MO

Congratulations, Abdulsalam20, you are in the news again. "Extra, extra, read all about it... Breaking News... Abdulsalam20 says..." Now, lets get back to rational argumentation. We won't engage you in derailing the main points of this topic. The Quran borrowed many stories from the Bible, the pseudo apocryphal and Gnostic books and while re-narrating, Mohammed infused his myths due to his low knowledge of the facts and on challenge by scholars, he said he was inspired by angels. True or false?

Abdulsalam20: @ proo212
IN BOOK OF GENESIS GOD IS AFRAID OF MAN

Genesis 11:1-9
The Tower of Babel
1 Now the whole world had one language and a common
speech.
2 As men moved eastward, they found a plain in Shinar
and settled there.
3 They said to each other, "Come, let's make bricks and
bake them thoroughly." They used brick instead of stone,
and tar for mortar.
4 Then they said, "Come, let us build ourselves a city,
with a tower that reaches to the heavens , so that we may
make a name for ourselves and not be scattered over the
face of the whole earth."
5 But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower
that the men were building.
6 The LORD said, "If as one people speaking the same
language they have begun to do this, then nothing they
plan to do will be
impossible
for them .
7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they
will not understand each other."
8 So the LORD scattered them from there over all the
earth, and they stopped building the city.
9 That is why it was called Babel —because there the LORD
confused the language of the whole world. From there the
LORD scattered them over the face of the whole earth.


this verse seriously insult GOD

check this also

Genesis 1:16 , GOD Almighty created two lamps, the sun and the moon,
each giving an independent light to earth. The Hebrew says "two
lamps" , meaning each giving off its independent light. Visit: http://
biblelexicon.org/genesis/1-16.htm .


seriously contradict science......SMH

DID YOU ALSO REMEMBER THE THEORY OF RAIMBOW IN THE BIBLE? I WONT QUOTE THAT

I KNOW THAT IF PHARAOH BODY HAS NOT BEEN FOUND IN THE RED SEA YOU WILL CLAIM PHARAOH HAS DECAY


CONCLUSION:IS IT BOOK OF GENESIS THAT HAVE ALL THIS ATROCITIES THAT YOU WANT TO PROVE THE STORY THERE TO BE TRUE......THAT IS WRONG ANYTHING THE QURAN SAY DONT DOUBT IT.......i never meant toexpose book of genesis but na you put hand for my mouth......GENESIS IS NOT WRITTEN BY THe prophets themselve

Don't go off in rigmaroles again. Answer the question at hand, "Are there proofs that Mohammed copied these books that you are disparaging or not?"

Abdulsalam20: SO FUNNY OF YOU......YOU ARE NOT SAYING THE QURAN IS COPIED FROM THE BIBLE AGAIN YOU ARE SAYING MUHAMMAD LISTEN TOSTORY.....LOLZ
I AGREE HE LISTEN TOSTORY
BUT THE PERSON HE LISTEN TOTHE STORY FROM MUST BE THE GREATEST OF ALL FOR SAYING THAT PHRAOH WONT DECAY EVEN THOUGH NOT STATED IN THE BIBLE AND NOBODY KNOWS AT THAT TIME

2.he must be the greatest scientist for not saying anything that contradict science the part that i love most is the aspect of electricity
Nobody knows but the theory is in the quran before michael faraday discover it

3. ALBERT EINTSEN WHO DISCOVER THEORY OF RELATIVITY TESTIFY TO IT I QUOTE; Einstein said, 'when I
heard about the narratives of the prophet
Mohamad and that of the Ahle-Beit [prophet's
household] I realized they had understood
these things way before us.'"


3.THE PERSON THAT TELLS THE STORY MUST BE VERY INTELLIGENT FOR THE FACT THAT ALL WHAT HE SAID CORRESPOND WITH SCIENCE AND BIBLE CONTRADICT IT.......THEN HE MUST BE THE GREATEST SCOENTIST

4.THE PERSON MUST BE VERY SMART BECAUSE NO SINGLE CONTRADICTION IN THE QURAN......BECAUSE MAN IS NOT PERFECT

5.THE PERSON MUST BE A SCHOLAR FOR SAYING JESUS IS NOT SON OF GOD AND GOD DONT BEGOT AND PRESENTLY NOW NLV AND RKJV ARE NOW MODIFYING THEIR BIBLE



PP[b ] pls the hadith you quote i need the reference.......u know this is now the third or fourth claim that u didnt give reference to!?

All boobadash! You need to do more to contradict the facts at your disposal. The question you need to address rather than going into shenanigans that everyone has heard several times before is: "Are the quotations from the Quran which show that Mohammed had prior knowledge of the Bible and heard from biblical scholars true as pointed out point blank in my submissions or not?

Any keen scholar can see no passages in Quran identifies Gabriel, or even Michael, as Holy Spirit. Reference passages distinguish Gabriel from the angels, i.e. Allah AND Gabriel AND the angels AND the righteous believers protect Muhammad. Just like Allah, the righteous believers and angels are all different and distinct from one another, they don’t belong to the same class of being, Gabriel must also be viewed as a distinct entity from all the rest.

Surah 2:97-98 lists several different groups giving the impression that these entities are also different from one another.

1. Since the Quran claims to be fully detailed, completely exhaustive, can you please tell us who Gabriel is by using the Quran alone?
2. If as you claim, Gabriel was God's Spirit whom Allah sent to assist Muhammad, what of Michael?

Please answer by using the Quran alone.

Abdulsalam20: CONCERNING MY POST ON HOLY SPIRIT I SEE THAT YOU ARGUE ON A BIAS BASIS DID YOU READ WHAT YOU POST?
ABOUT ANGEL INFACT YOU ARE PROVING ME RIGHT

AND FUNNY ENOUGH YOUR FIRST ARGUEMENT WAS THAT JESUS IS THE ONLY ONE WHO RECEIVE STRENGTH I DEBUNK YOUR CLAIM THAT ALL PROPHET RECEIVE THAT AND I GAVE YOU REFERENCE IN THE QURAN YOU DIDNT ARGUE ON THAT I THINK YOU SHOULD STAND ON YOUR CLAIM.........OKAY LET ME NOW ADRESS YOUR QUESTION I STILL STAND ON MY CLAIM THAT HOLY SPIRIT IS GABRIEL INFACT ALL THE VERSES I QUOTED SHOULD AKE YOU BELIEVE BUT YOU ARGUE ON A BIAS BASIS
LET ME ENLIGHTEN YOU FINALLY WHY HOLY SPIRIT IS GABRIEL
FOLLOW THIS LINK
READ FROM WIKIPEDIA
www.en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Spirit_(Islam)


also follow this link
www.islamqa.info/en/14403


www.muslim-responses.com/The_Holy_Spirit_in_Islam/The_Holy_Spirit_in_Islam_

Biblical Gabriel contradicts the theology of the Quran. This Gabriel calls Jesus the Son of God and sovereign King:

"In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. And the virgin's name was Mary. And he came to her and said, ‘Greetings, O favored one, the Lord is with you!’ But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and tried to discern what sort of greeting this might be. And the angel said to her, ‘Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.’ And Mary said to the angel, ‘How will this be, since I am a virgin?’ And the angel answered her, ‘The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy--the Son of God . And behold, your relative Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son, and this is the sixth month with her who was called barren. For nothing will be impossible with God.’" Luke 1:26-37

But the Quran’s Gabriel didn’t preach the same message that this other Gabriel did. If the Muslims say the Bible is corrupted at this point then how can they even use it to show who this Gabriel was? How do they know that the Bible is accurate when it identifies the angel, but not accurate when it records the message from this same angel? Muslims cannot have their cake and eat it too.

Angels are created Jinns, but in a cacophony of contradictions, Angel Gabriel in the Quran becomes the Holy Spirit of God? Mohammed apparently interpreted the Bible upside down, I'll say.

When someone says that God (Allah) sends Gabriel (Allah) on an errand as messenger, then you see nothing but confusion.


p

Abdulsalam20: YOU ARE SAYING ANOTHER THING AGAIN YOU SAID ONLY JESUS WAS NOT INVOKED BY SATAN AND I PROVE IT WRONG INFACT I EXPECT YOU TO COUNTER MY CLAIM......but i know you cant

Simple logic. How could you have proved it wrong when Quran says only He was Pure and Holy?

Abdulsalam20: * if muhammad copied the bible why did he scold them for interpolating the bible?
* If Mohammed had been copied fromthe Holy Book , he would not have
scolded them at least toescape their objections and to win them for
his side at least to avoid any confrontation with them.
Those who claim that Mohammed copied from the scripture
should tell us where was that translated copy that he copied from ,
according to thehistorical authority , there was not any translated
copy in the time of the prophet Mohammed or even long after his
death?
If the Holy Quran copied from the Bible , why does the Holy Quran
launch this fierce critique against the Bible concerning the story of
Trinity in the Bible but even renounces this fact and most strikingly
shows them thesource from which they got the concept of Trinity .


* If Mohummed [p] had copied from the holy book, why did he not copy
the story of creation in Genesis , the story of creation in the Holy
Quran is mentioned in a way that is completely in agreement with the
newly discovered facts. ( Big Bang ,expansion of the universe and the
Big crunch is mentioned in the Holy Quran ).Moreover the Holy Quran
gives an account to the stories of the prophets and the perished
nationsin a way that fills you with ecstasy , sometimes you find
theHoly Quran in agreement with some parts of the Holy Books
andthen in disagreement with other parts


* The story of Joseph is the
best example , if you compare these holy books
( Pseudepigrapha ,Talmud, Targum ,Midrash ) together concerning the
story of Joseph you will find a lot ofcontradictions between them and
then if you include the Holy Quran you will find that the Holy Quran is
in conformity with them in the most reasonable parts ,i.e, it is in
agreement withthis part in this book while it is in disagreement with
anotherpart in the same book and then you find it in agreement with
another book concerning the part it is already in disagreement with
the previous one . Did Mohammed read all of these bookstogether?
What was that historical criterion on which he based his copy? What
litmus paper did he have to check which is valid and which is not?
Moreover , the Quranic story is always complete though condensed in
a few lines that are replete with meanings that can be classified under
many tenets .


infact this relly got me lughing THE WAY GOD IS ADRESSED IN THE BIBLE DISPRESPECT GOD BUT THE QURAN NEVER
The New International Version of Genesis 3:8-11, reads,“Then the man
and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God as he was walking in
the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the LORD God
among the trees of the garden. (9) But the LORD God called to the
man, “Where are you?” (10) He answered, “I heard you in the garden,
and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.” 11 And he said, “Who
told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I
commanded you not to eat from?”

Here, God is pictured as walking in the garden in the cool of the day.
What is even more astonishing is that Adam and Eve were able to hide
from God and he had to ask, “Where are you?” If a human is able to
hide from Him in the garden, how is it that this Lord is going to have
knowledge of the sins that people commit? It would be difficult for
any human to gender in his heart the kind of love and fear of God that
he should have when he believes that his God is so faulty and weak
that an event like this could occur to him.


ALSO IN [b] In Genesis 32:24-28, there is the story and literal description of Jacob
wrestling with and defeating God. In verse 28, it says,
“You [Jacob] have wrestled withGod and with men, and you have
won.” In other words, the creator of the universe whom mankind is
expected to worship and submit to was defeated by a mere mortal in a
wrestling match.
The Old Testament even picturesGod as one who intended to do evil
but then repented. Exodus32:14states:
“And the Lord repented of theevil which he thought to do unto his
people” ( KingJames Version ). It would not be surprising for anyone to
turn away from God and not consider Him worthy of worship if He
himself has to repent from His own evil.
The Old and New Testamentsdistort the image of the prophets and
defame them. Some prophetsgot drunk! Some showed their unclothedness
to others! Some pretendfoolishness! And some fornicate and commit
adultery!
In the Qur'an, these distortions are non-existent. The reader to the
Qur'an will find continuous glorification to the prophets of God
because they are the `God-Elects' and they are the most righteous of
all men.
The story of creation and human history in the Old Testament
contradicts the most basic science findings.


lastly Did Mohammed read the Red Sea scroll , which remained hidden in
one of the caves of the Dead sea and only were found in the 1948 ?Did
Mohammed read the codices of Naga Hamadi in Egypt and that were
only found a few years ago?
Did Mohummed read the Bible of Judas which was found recently in
Egypt and only translated into English a few years ago in US . This
bible in conformity with the Holy Quran concerning the story of
Crucifixion , it states thatit was not Jesus who was crucified and
some one else was.

Are you kidding me? So, all these show that the Spirit of God is an angel?

It is apparent that Mohammed never read the Holy Books he referred to, but only heard oral histories. The Bible had not been translated into Arabic, which was the only language Mohammed knew, but even could neither read nor write. You too have corroborated that fact, so I need to flog a dead ass there.

On the other hand you could see that he had only half information on most of the stories he quoted from the Torah and Talmud as well as pseudo apocryphal books and NT. Imagine, in the story of Abraham's sacrifice of his son, Ishmael replaces Isaac. In the other stories he quoted from the OT, Gnostic books and apocryphal, he jumbles up the real stories with myths. That is proof that he had only half information from people, but not all. He then goes on to claim that he was inspired to speak these errors!!!

Evidences that he, Mohammed was not inspired to know, but heard of these stories are in the Quran:

"Has not the story reached you, of those who (went) before you? - of the people of Noah, and Ad and Thamud? - And those who (came) after them ..." Abraham XIV 9.

"Verily Allah will judge between them as to the schisms amongst them, on the Day of Judgment.
"If thou wert in doubt as to what we have revealed unto thee: then ask those who have been reading the Book (Bible) before thee: the truth hath indeed come to thee from thy lord so be in no wise of those in doubt" Jonah X 93b -94.

The story of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Joseph, Joshua, Jonah, the Rich Fool in NT and several others were mixed with mumbo jumbos. No wonder, he believed Gnostic claim that Jesus was not crucified, but replaced by another person on the cross. That controversial idea had existed long before Mohammed and had been debunked by Church Councils. I will conclude that the reason why Mohammed said Muslims should not dispute with Jews and Christians is because he knew that his erroneous stories would be discovered and debunked by the truth.

While defending his plagiarism from those who knew better, and had accused him of forgery, he said,

"When we substitute one revelation for another, - and Allah knows best what he reveals - they say, "Thou art but a forger" but most of them know not" The Bee XVI 101.

"We know indeed that they say, "It is man that teaches him". The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this is Arabic, pure and clear" The Bee XVI 103.

Imagine, one who never read the books he quoted in error accusing others who may have been experts in these writings of lack of knowlege! That is mischievous!!!

When accused of lacking inspiration because he had no signs and wonders following his teachings, he said:

"And the unbelievers say, "Why is not a sign sent down to him from his Lord?" But thou art truly a warner, and to every people (an ordinary) guide" The Thunder XIII 7.

When accused of trying to molest a relative's wife, (wife of Ummu Hani' binti Abu) he claimed that a flying horse transported him into the neighbor's premises by a miracle!!! I hope you don't need me to give you a reference for that. Google Mohammed's flying horse story.

Abdulsalam20: i need reference to that hadith(but before you gave me the reference i will explain the reality because i know the hadith is fabricated)
THIS IS A GIFT FOR ALL PROPHETS SHAYTAN CAN NEVER USE THEM HERE IS MY EVIDENCE
{ Never sent We a messenger or a Prophet before thee but
when He recited (the message) Satan proposed (opposition)
in respect of that which he recited thereof. But Allah
abolisheth that which Satan proposeth. Then Allah
establisheth His revelations. Allah is Knower, Wise} (22:52)/ ..........THIS IS ENOUGH TODEBUNK YOUR CLAIM THAT YISA(PBUH) IS THE ONLY ONE

I will still repeat your post:

"... in the first place who is the holy spirit in the QURAN?.....the holy spirit is ANGELGABRIEL
MY PROOF
He sends down the
Spirit from His command, upon
those of His servantsHe chooses,
in order to warn people of the
Day of Meeting.” (Ghafir: 15)..."

There is a difference between the Holy Spirit residing in someone ("strengthened WITH the Holy Spirit" as against the Holy Spirit speaking to someone. Even if all prophets were inspired, the Holy Spirit in Jesus is not in the same category.

And your reference has done nothing to prove your point.

Abdulsalam20: PLS BEFORE I PROCEED I NEED YOUR PROOF FOR THE BROOF THAT ANGEL POSSES PROPHET SEND BY GOD PLS [b]
like i have always said i understand my religion more than you do...if you read the reference above you will discover what i am saying

[b] "Say, the Holy Spirit has brought the Revelation from
thy Lord in Truth, in order to strengthen those who
believe, and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to Muslims. (The
Noble Quran, 16:102) " who is the holy spirit here?........it is simply gabriel who GOD send to muhammad todeliver the everlasting gospel

2 "Then will God say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My
favour to thee and to thy mother. [b] Behold! I strengthened
thee with the Holy Spirit,[b] so that thou didst speak to the
people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught
thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel and
behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a
bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it
becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born
blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou
bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did
restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee
when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the
unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident
magic.' (The Noble Quran, 5:110) "
who is the holy spirit here?


3. also read this
She chose to seclude herself (from her
people); then we sent to [b]her Our Spirit,
and he appeared before her in the form
of a man [b]in all respects. She said:
"Verily! I seek refuge with the Most
Beneficent (God) from you, if you do
fear God." (The man) said: "I am only a
messenger from your Lord,

who is the holy spirit here? gabriel

EVEN IN THE BIBLE HOLY SPIRIT ARE SENT TOMANY PEOPLE NOT ONLY JESUS

[b]
Luke 2:25 "Now there was a man in Jerusalem called
Simeon, who was righteous and devout. He was waiting for
the consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon
him. "
2. 1 Samuel 16:13 "So Samuel took the horn of oil and
anointed him in the presence of his brothers, and from
that day on the Spirit of the LORD came upon David in
power. Samuel then went to Ramah."
3. 1 Samuel 11:6 "When Saul heard their words, the Spirit of
God came upon him in power, and he burned with anger."

there are many verse but we should stp here

IF BECAUSE HOLY SPIRIT APPEAR TO JESUS HE IS GOD THEN SAMUEL SAUL MUHAMMAD AND OTHERS SHOULD ALSO BE CALLED GOD

PLS DONT FORGET THE REFERENCE I DEMAND FOR

Very wrong concept of the Holy Spirit you have, sire.

First, you cannot drag down the attribute of the Holy Spirit of God to that of a mere angel. Some who even claim that He is the 'Force of God' do better than that. But He is a Living Spirit.

Secondly, I doubt if anyone will dispute that Angel Gabriel or Michael was created and if God has a spirit and it is created, then God was created.

Thirdly, you need to find out more about spiritology. Spirits of people do not exist apart, but along with their hosts.

Fouth is that if Archangel Gabriel or Michael is the spirit of God, whose spirit is Archangel Malik... or Uriel or even the fallen Archangel Lucifer?

This must be your personal view, or limited to a few Muslims who are misunderstanders of Islam. I Googled Archangel Michael and this is what I have on him from Quranic writings:

Islamic view of angels
Angels (Arabic: ﻣﻼﺋﻜﺔ malāʾikah; singular: ﻣﻼﻙ or ﻣَﻠَﻚْ malāk) are heavenly beings mentioned many times in the Quran and hadith . Unlike humans or jinn, they have no free will and therefore can do only what
God orders them to do. An example of a task they carry out is testing individuals by granting them abundant wealth and curing their illness. Believing in angels is one of the six Articles of Faith in Islam. Just as humans are made of clay, and jinn are made of smokeless fire, angels are made of light.

How does Archangel Gabriel or Michael fit into a perspective of spirit of God here?

Fifth, angel are messengers of God, not at par with or existing within God, but outside of God with other creation. For further details on Islamic views of angels, Wikipedia has these, which I believe would surprise anyone reading your claim that Michael is God's spirit:

Characteristics of angels:

In Islam, the functions that the angels perform vary, one of the most prominent of these functionsis their function as messengers. The angel Jibraaiyl (Gabriel) is the most important (prominent) messenger angel, as in Islam, he delivers the message of God (Allah) to the Islamic prophets . Angels cannot be seen as they are heavenly beings but that can take on different forms, including human.[7] One well known example is when God sent the angel Jibreel (Gabriel) to Maryam (Mary) in the form of a man, as God says in the Quran:

Similarly, angels also came to ʾIbrāhīm (Abraham) in human form, and he was not aware that they were angels until they told him so. Lūṭ(Lot) also had angels come to him to warn him of the impending doom of his people. All angels praise and glorify God and they never become tired of doing this.
There are angels standing in rows, who never get tired or sit down, and others who bow or prostrate, and never raise their heads. Abu Dharr al-Ghifari is quoted as saying:

No angel is able to disobey God due to the way God created angels. For this reason, Islam does not teach that Iblīs or Shayṭan (the Devil or Satan ) was a fallen angel, rather he was one of the jinn.
The Quran also mentions that angels have qualities that may be typified by the word wings:
The preceding sentence does not imply that all angels have two to four wings. Most notably, archangels (namely Gabriel and Michael) are described as having thousands of wings.[citation needed]

However, according to hadith collected by Muhammad al-Bukhari, Muhammad said that Gabriel had 600 wings;

The angels also accompanied Muhammad up to Jannah (Heaven ) when he received commands from God. Instead of riding on an angel, Muhammad rode a creature called a Buraq whose stride spans from horizon to horizon.

Angels are not equal in status and consequently they have been delegated different tasks to perform. The names and roles of some angels have been mentioned to us:

The angels of the Seven Heavens.
Hafaza, (The Guardian Angel):
Kiraman Katibin (Honourable Recorders ),[15] two of whom are charged to every human being; one writes down good deeds and the another one writes down evil deeds. They are both described as 'Raqeebun 'Ateed' in the Qur'an.
Mu'aqqibat (The Protectors)[16] who keep people from death until its decreed time and who bring down blessings.
Jundullah, those who help Muhammad in the battlefield
The angels who violently pull out the souls of the wicked,[17]
Those who gently draw out the souls of the blessed,[18]
Those angels who distribute (provisions, rain, and other blessings) by (God's) Command.[19]
Those angels who drive the clouds.[20]
Hamalat al-'Arsh, those who carry the 'Arsh (Throne of God),[21] comparable to the Christian Seraph
Those that give the spirit to the foetus in the womb and are charged with four commands: to write down his provision, his life-span, his actions, and whether he will be wretched or happy.[22]
The Angel of the Mountains[23]
Munkar and Nakir, who question the dead in their graves.[16]
Darda'il (The Journeyers), who travel in the earth searching out assemblies where people remember God's name.[24]
The angels charged with each existent thing, maintaining order and warding off corruption. Their number is known only to God.[25]
There is the angel who is responsible for Jannah (Paradise). A weak hadeeth says his name is Ridwan so as far as we know, there is no name for sure that we know of.
Maalik is the chief of the angels who govern Jahannam (Hell)
Zabaniah are 19 angels who torment sinful personsin hell
These angels take no pity on punishing them as they do what the Lord has commanded them to precisely and perfectly. A verse stipulatesthis:
The following is a Quranic verse that mentions the meeting of an angel with Mary, mother of Jesus (ʿĪsā):
Muhammad, speaking of the magnitude of the angel Gabriel, has said that his wings spanned from the eastern to the western horizon.

Versesin the Quran that directly name angels

Template:Muslim beliefs
Gabriel (Jibreel) and Michael (Meekaal) are mentioned early on the Quran in sura Al-Baqarah:
Another angel, Maalik is defined in the Quran as a being who is the warden of Hell. However Maalik is not an evil angel, nor a fallen one , a notion Islam rejects, rather Maalik is merely doing what he is commanded to do by God. In Islam, Iblīs or Shayṭan (the Devil or Satan) is considered to be a jinn rather than a fallen angel, since he questioned God when He ordered the angels to prostrate themselves before Adam, an act that suggested he possessesfree will. An alternative view holds that rather than "defying" God, Iblis was acting in a manner predetermined by God.

Two other angels are also mentioned directly in the Quran: Haaroot and Maaroot (Harut and Marut):
Several angels such as Azrael, Israfil, Munkar and Nakir are not mentioned directly in the Quran but are explained further in the hadiths of Muhammad.

Abdulsalam20: i said you should give me reference to it...............i am still coming to answer the rest

Please feel free to Google it and discover. The beauty of the information available to all through the internet...

Abdulsalam20: i know i am just telling you because you think jesus is the only one that have the quality......and i am proving it to you that there is someont that have more than that

Thanks for thinking for me, but 'No, thanks', I can think for myself. If I believe that Jesus is God only because He was of virgin birth, I would say so by myself. But as it is impossible for you to contradict the myriads of evidences supplied to support this from both Bible and Koran, you chose to think for me? Thank God, we live still in a society that largely allows freedom of thoughts, not a Takfiri controlled nation.

Abdulsalam20: i need reference to that hadith(but before you gave me the reference i will explain the reality because i know the hadith is fabricated)
THIS IS A GIFT FOR ALL PROPHETS SHAYTAN CAN NEVER USE THEM HERE IS MY EVIDENCE
{ Never sent We a messenger or a Prophet before thee but
when He recited (the message) Satan proposed (opposition)
in respect of that which he recited thereof. But Allah
abolisheth that which Satan proposeth. Then Allah
establisheth His revelations. Allah is Knower, Wise} (22:52)/ ..........THIS IS ENOUGH TODEBUNK YOUR CLAIM THAT YISA(PBUH) IS THE ONLY ONE

I didn't concoct it. One of the most respected scholars in Islamic history wrote it. But I noticed that you adress only selected parts of my enquiries. Is it that the others are granted as true and accepted?

Abdulsalam20: IF YOU SAY JESUS[PBUH] IS GOD BECAUSE HE HAS NO FATHER OR BECAUSE HE WAS BORN BY A VIRGIN MOTHER THEN ADAM[PBUH] IS A GREATER GOD BECAUSE HE HAS NO FATHER AND HE HAS NO MOTHER..........

Good, I never wrote any such thing. I proved that Jesus is God through His attributes and qualities.

Abdulsalam20: ALL THESE ARE FORBIDDEN IN ISLAM ANY MUSLIM WHO ENGAGE IN IT IS NOT A GOOD MUSLIM
1. 1. Terrorism is above all murder. Murder is strictly forbidden
in the Qur’an. Qur’an 6:151 says, “and do not kill a soul that
God has made sacrosanct, save lawfully.” (i.e. murder is
forbidden but the death penalty imposed by the state for a
crime is permitted). 5:53 says, “… whoso kills a soul, unless it
be for murder or for wreaking corruption in the land, it shall
be as if he had killed all mankind; and he who saves a life, it
shall be as if he had given life to all mankind.”

2. 2. If the motive for terrorism is religious, it is not permissible in
Islamic law. It is forbidden to attempt to impose Islam on
other people. The Qur’an says, “There is no compulsion in
religion. The right way has become distinct from error.” (-The
Cow, 2:256). Note that this verse was revealed in Medina in
622 AD or after and was never abrogated by any other verse
of the Quran. Islam’s holy book forbids coercing people into
adopting any religion. They have to willingly choose it.

3. Islamic law forbids aggressive warfare. The Quran says,
“But if the enemies incline towards peace, do you also incline
towards peace. And trust in God! For He is the one who hears
and knows all things.” (8:61) The Quran chapter “The Cow,”
2:190, says, “Fight in the way of God against those who fight
against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! God loveth not
aggressors.”

5. The killing of innocent non-combatants is forbidden.
According to Sunni tradition, ‘Abu Bakr al-Siddiq, the first
Caliph, gave these instructions to his armies: “I instruct you in
ten matters: Do not kill women, children, the old, or the infirm;
do not cut down fruit-bearing trees; do not destroy any
town . . . ” (Malik’s Muwatta’, “Kitab al-Jihad.”)

7. Sneak attacks are forbidden. Muslim commanders must
give the enemy fair warning that war is imminent. The Prophet
Muhammad at one point gave 4 months notice.

8. The Prophet Muhammad counseled doing good to those
who harm you and is said to have commanded , “Do not be
people without minds of your own, saying that if others treat
you well you will treat them well, and that if they do wrong you
will do wrong to them. Instead, accustom yourselves to do
good if people do good and not to do wrong (even) if they do
evil.” (Al-Tirmidhi)

9. The Qur’an demands of believers that they exercise justice
toward people even where they have reason to be angry with
them: “And do not let the hatred of a people prevent you from
being just. Be just; that is nearer to righteousness.”[5:8

i dont have much to say because i dont want to derail........try toread the life history of prophet muhammad (pbuh) dont spread what you dont know.........am still coming bak toadress if what is in heaven in islam is xame with that of christianity though i have posted it to one of you but he didnt respond.......

Please try and read this post. When the average person says Islam is not encouraging violence and the Islamic experts who have been respected and quoted for decades say otherwise, who are we to believe? Is it the less learned or the expert?

Please note the last paragraph, which explains why Muslims like abdulsalam20 try to reject violent Islamists; "To be clear, there are millions of other Muslims who are repulsed by ISIS’ actions, and there are Islamic scholars who have put forth other interpretations of these Islamic texts and traditions. But to claim that ISIS is not Islamic is to bury one’s head in the very sand now red with the blood of the beheaded."

I will conclude that it is the repulsion that comes from the enlightenment of the 21st Century that drives rejection of these violent practices which have characterized the origin and history of Islam. For this, we should commend abdulsalam20 and others who have become enlightened and are now speaking out.

www.wnd.com/2014/10/on-islam-do-we-believe-obama-or-muslim-ph-d/

On Islam, do we believe Obama or Muslim Ph.D.?

Posted By Michael Brown On 10/01/2014 @ 8:15 pm In Commentary,Opinion

Our last three presidents have all statedthat radical Islam is not real Islam, but a lifelong Muslim, raised in the Middle East and holding a Ph.D. in Islamic Studies, categorically disagrees. Whom should we believe?

Speaking to the U.N. in September, President Obama statedwith regard to ISIL (or ISIS, the so-called “Islamic State”) that, “No God condones this terror.” He added, “Now let’s make two things clear: ISIL is not Islamic. No religion condones the killing of innocents, and the vast majority of ISIL’s victims have been Muslim.”

ISIL is not Islamic? Then what is it?

Middle East scholar Daniel Pipes, with reference to Obama’s similar comment made earlier in September, explained that, “In making this preposterousclaim, Obama joins his two immediate predecessorsin pronouncing on what is not Islamic. Bill Clinton called the Taliban treatment of women and children ‘a terrible perversion of Islam.’ George W. Bush deemed that 9/11 and other acts of violence against innocents ‘violate the fundamental tenets of the Islamic faith.’”

Pipes continued, “Anyone with eyes and ears realizes that the Islamic State, like the Taliban and al-Qaida before it, is 100 percent Islamic.”

Is Pipes correct? After all, he studied in Egypt and learned Arabic and spent time in the Islamic world of West Africa. Yet Pipes is a not a Muslim, so his opinion, though highly respected in many academic circles, is that of a Westerner.

But what about a practicing Muslim who was raised and educated in the Islamic world, even reportedly earning a Ph.D. in Islamic Studies from the Islamic University of Baghdad? Perhaps the testimony of such a person should be taken seriously?

I’m speaking of none other than Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the leader of ISIS. (Yes, al-Baghdadi, Ph.D., if the reports are true.) Does he understandIslam?

It is true, of course, that President Obama spent some of his childhood in Indonesia, but that country is one of the more moderate Islamic countries (although the largest), and I can’t imagine a single Islamic scholar considering Obama an authority on Islam.

See some of Dr. Brown’s best culture and theology books in the WND Superstore
On the other hand, despite his murderous extremism, al-Baghdadi can make a real claim to being an authentic Muslim. In fact, he makes a real claim to carrying out his barbarism in the name and spirit of Islam.

As pointed out by a former devout Muslim from Morocco, whose fatheris an imam, ISIS is thoroughly Islamic and speaks for Islam. (This former Muslim, now a Christian, goes by the name of Bro. Rachid and does not divulge his full identity for security purposes. He is currently in the middle of earning a Master’s degree on terrorism.)

Bro. Rachid notes that al-Baghdadi was a preacher in a local Iraqi mosque, that all ISIS’ members are Muslims who are coming from different nations with only their faith in common. They follow Muhammad’s example in detail (wearing beards but no mustache, wearing his same traditional garb and even wearing their watches on their right hands to distinguish themselves from the infidels).

They establish Shariah law in every area they conquer. They have sought to re-establish the caliphate – central to Sunni Islam – and they follow Muhammad’s personal example of beheading their victims, not to mention following this specific injunction in the Quran (47:4): “So when you meet those who disbelieve [in battle], strike [their] necks until, when you have inflicted slaughter upon them, then secure their bonds, and either [confer] favor afterwards or ransom [them] until the war lays down its burdens.”

As for slaughtering prisoners of war, Sura 8:67 in the Quran is used to justify this practice: “It is not for a prophet to have captives [of war] until he inflicts a massacre [upon Allah's enemies] in the land.” This could include other Muslims who were deemed to be apostate.

As for kidnapping women of other faiths and taking them as wives (after killing their husbands, fathers, or brothers), Muhammad’s personal example would justify this as well. (See, for example, the storyof his wife Safiya bint Huyayy.)

And on and on it goes, with Islamic radicals finding support for their actions in their sacred texts, in Islamic history (especially in the 13th century) and in the life of Muhammad. Surely al-Baghdadi is quite familiar with all this and exploits it in his preaching.

As for slaughtering in cold blood the American and British hostages, they could easily justify this as well by claiming that American and England have attacked Muslim lands and slaughtered millions of their people; hence these are attacks ofretaliation.

For devout Muslims, this is all part of jihad, holy war.

To be clear, there are millions of other Muslims who are repulsed by ISIS’ actions, and there are Islamic scholars who have put forthother interpretationsof these Islamic textsand traditions.
But to claim that ISIS is not Islamic is to bury one’s head in the very sand now red with the blood of the beheaded.

Abdulsalam20: i will try as much as possible to enlighten you more.....the fact is that islam requires knowledge

@ the bolded part 1 you claim the holy spirit is not an angelic eing your proof

“We gave Jesus, son of Mary,
clear signs, and strengthened him
with the Holy Spirit…” (Al-
Baqarah: 253)
[b]
in the first place who is the holy spirit in the QURAN?.....the holy spirit is ANGELGABRIEL
MY PROOF
He sends down the
Spirit from His command, upon
those of His servants He chooses,
in order to warn people of the
Day of Meeting.” (Ghafir: 15)

2. “Say: The Holy
Spirit brought it down from your
Lord with the truth, to
strengthen those who believe,
and as a guidance and good
tidings to the Muslims.” (An-Nahl:
102)
3. The Prophet (peace and blessings
be upon him) prayed to Allah to
strengthen the famous poet Hassan
ibn Thabit with the Holy Spirit in
composing poems in defense of
Islam: “O Allah! Strengthen him
with the Holy Spirit.” (Reported
by al-Bukhari)
more: www.islamawareness.net/Angels/fatwa_holyspirit.html
SO THIS IS ENOUGH TO PROVE TO YOU THAT ALL PROPHET INCLUDING PROPHET MUHAMMAD RECEIVE REVELATION FROM ANGEL GABRIEL AND THIS IS EVIDENT IN THE BIBLE bt am nt going into that ).....so the holy spirit is angel gabriel and all prophet receive revelation from him NOT ONLY JESUS [/b]

also in your next post @ bolded 2 ”
pls read the full verse
From verse 26
1:26 And We sent Noah and Abraham, and established in their line Prophethood and Revelation: and some of them were on right guidance. But many of them became rebellious transgressors.1:27 Then, in their wake, We followed them up with (others of) Our apostles: We sent after them Jesus the son of Mary, and bestowed on him the Gospel; and We ordained in the hearts of those who followed him Compassion and Mercy. But the Monasticism which they invented for themselves, We did not prescribe for them: (We commanded) only the seeking for the Good Pleasure of Allah. but that they did not foster as they should have done. Yet We bestowed, on those among them who believed, their (due) reward, but many of them are rebellious transgressors.


DID YOU READ THIS VERSE? as you can see your clim is not there the verse is even rebuking the christians it is telling them the truth

you quote 53:63 pls read from erse 62
1:62 Let not the Evil One hinder you: for he is to you an enemy avowed.
1:63 When Jesus came with Clear Signs, he said: "Now have I come to you with Wisdom, and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) on which ye dispute: therefore fear Allah and obey me.
1:64 "For Allah, He is my Lord and your Lord: so worship ye Him: this is a Straight Way."1:65 But sects from among themselves fell into disagreement: then woe to the wrong-doers, from the Penalty of a Grievous Day!
as you can see i dont need to comment on it the verse is explanatory in fact the verse is eplanatory in the bible
John 20:17
"I ascend unto my Father, and your
Father, and to my God, and your God

thefore jesus say we should worship god AND he adress every body as son of god
I WILL EXPLAIN THAT VERSE MORE CONCERINING MUSLIM BELIEF ON BIBLE

1. We really can't come to any agreement if you premise on the Holy Spirit being Angel Michael. That, I find preposterous (absurd). How can an angel possess any person sent by God? You need to study a little about angeology and demonology to find out more on their operations. Angel Michael is Angel Michael and not the Holy Spirit of God.

2. While you reject authenticity of the Bible as compiled simply for the fact that Gnostics debate it, I believe you should find also a way to delve into archeological discoveries that validate most of the compilations. Even then, none of the books from wwich I made references so far is disputed. Have you ever wondered which biblical scriptures Mohammed read from to coin his own religion? Have you tried to find out, since Islam requires knowlege, which Bible scripts Mohammed read and quoted from?

From all indications of his misquote of events in the Torah and Talmund and Christian practice, it is obvious that he had little knowlege of the Bible and had not read most of these scripts, but only gathered information here and there from Catholic preachers he encontered in his days. You may want to research to find the influences of Monasticism as it was practiced by Catholics, which is not a biblical but traditional Catholic practice at that time, on him. That will enlighten us on why he condemned practices such as celibacy, reclusion, worship of angels and images and many others. They are not biblical practices. Mohammed had no valid stance to know which biblical provisions were true or false ince he was not availed the opportunity to access Bible scripts, but only depended on oral information and false practices of his time.

Mohammed himself testified that there were disagreements among Christians over doctrinal practices of his days, indicating that his references was based on the false Christianity he encountered. But he never had the opportunity to encounter true Christian practices and that is evident in your reference; " 1:65 But sects from among themselves fell into disagreement: then woe to the wrong-doers, from the Penalty of a Grievous Day!" He lived among idol worshippers and had influences only from Catholicism.

yazach and abdulsalam20 n your last submissions, I will comprehensively reply to you both at the same time.

The Quran says these of Jesus: Born of a virgin 19:19-20, 21:91; strengthened with the Holy Spirit 2:87; given revelation by the Holy Spirit and not just angelic beings 19:30; taken bodily into Heaven 3:55; received the true Gospel from God 57:27; and asked all to obey him 43:63. If as a true Muslim should, you believe the Bible as the Quran says, you must also believe the surah that says, “… We believe in that which is revealed to us and which was revealed to you. Our God and your God is one. To Him we surrender ourselves.”
The Arab prophet (El-Bukhari) testified for the perfection of Christ and His infallibility, saying: "Satan pokes with his finger the side of every human at birth, except Jesus, son of Mary; when he went to poke Him, he poked the curtain." No other person has ever claimed this level of perfection which is akin to divinity.
In the 2:253 of Quran, Mohammed was saying something about the inspiration of Jesus by the Holy Spirit, wasn’t he? Inspiration means infallibility of His claims as the Holy Spirit of God cannot inspire lies. If therefore, Jesus claimed in the Holy books to be God, He could not be wrong. Further, to buttress the divine attribute of Jesus as God, the prophet in 3:135 says, “… and who can forgive sins except Allah?” Jesus said “The Son of Man has power to forgive sins”.
Both OT and NT are accepted by Mohammed as true divine inspirations. The testimony of this appears in most parts of chapter 7 of the Quran as well as 5:46, 6:154, 7:73,17:43 and several other verses. If the NT writers believed that Jesus is Savior we should not be surprised to find them ascribing divine functions to Him.
Only Jesus will be the Judge who will come to this world to judge the living and the dead; the Arab prophet, El-Bukhari confirmed this fact, saying: "The Last Hour will not come until the Son of Mary come down as the just Judge”. According to the Bible and Koran, God is the Judge of all the earth. The Old Testament teaches that God has appointed a day when he will come and gather all the peoples before him in order to judge them in righteousness. The NT says the same, but refers to Jesus Christ as that Judge, saying; "And he commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one appointed by God to be judge of the living and the dead." Acts 10:42
This judgment can only be the work of Savior, or Messiah, as Christ is similarly named in the Quran, which also testifies to a day when Christ will return to the earth to judge the whole world. Even though you claim that the word ‘Messiah’ only means anointed one, you neglected to add that it also means Savior. Jesus Christ alone exclusively enjoyed the prophetical title of "the Messiah": According to the Quran, "The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was God's Messenger, and His Word committed to Mary…". The Old Testament made known the real identity of the Messiah, saying: "Behold the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth… and this is the name whereby He shall be called: THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS." (Jeremiah 23:5-6)
If God assigned Jesus the role of Judge specifically, it must be because is not like any other, and only God is not like any other. The Psalmist exhorted the people to worship Yahweh since he was coming to judge the nations. This presupposes that one of the many reasons why God is worthy of worship is because he is the Judge of all creation. To be able to render perfect judgment, Jesus must be omniscient and omnipotent. In a similar manner, the Lord Jesus claims that the reason why God entrusted all judgment to him is so that everyone may worship the Son as they worship the Father:
"The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him… And he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man." John 5:22-23
Jesus emphatically states that everyone must give him the same honor that they give to God! Jesus is basically demanding to be worshiped as God. Anyone who fails to worship Christ will be judged and condemned by him.
Daniel 7:13-14 foresaw a Son of Man whom God appointed to rule over the peoples of the earth forever and whom all the nations had to worship and serve. Jesus was basically saying that he is that Son of Man whom Daniel saw, the very One who rules forever over the entire creation of God and who shall be worshiped by everyone. The NT writers call the judgment day the Day of the Lord Jesus, the Day of Christ.
It is true that the Quran writes of Jesus as being created. But somehow, this seems to be an error because the same Quran says that all humans are created by God (3:191) and from Adam (6:98; 7:12, 189), who was the first of all humans and created from dust. Writing about the creation of angels, the Quran claims that they were made with fire and wind (15:27). But writing of the purported creation of Jesus, it says that He was created with dust like Adam and commanded to life by the word of God “be” (3:59). It is impossible to reconcile how Adam could be the progenitor of all humans while Jesus too is created as another human, judging from the fact that He was not said to have been created the same way as the Jinns (angels), but as another human from dust apart from Adam.
The other conflict comes up when Jesus was mentioned to have created a bird by the power of God in 5:110. Who can create except God? Jesus Christ alone was distinguished from all others in the sense that He was the Creator. The Quran quotes God as saying of Jesus, "I will create for you out of clay as the likeness of a bird; then I will breathe into it and it will be a bird." (5:110)
Another aspect that will definitely convince anyone is the claim by the Quran 19:19 that Jesus is pure and holy (as Al Quddus). All prophets mentioned in Quran were said to have been inspired (16:43; 17:93), but Jesus did not enjoy simple inspiration, but had the Holy Spirit of God in Him having said to have emanated from the Spirit of God. For this reason, He did not need a sexual, genetic birth. Quoting the Quran; “The Messiah, Jesus Son of Mary, God's Messenger, and His Word that He committed to Mary, and a Spirit from Him”. He is exalted above all like God is exalted (7:73; 17:43). He is also honored above all with definite signs to show (3:45) unlike Mohammed, who was doubted as stated in 13:7 because he did not have signs following him.
In all of Jewish, Christian and Islamic history, Jesus was matchless in performing miracles and the wonders which no other could. The Quran testifies of this in 3:49. This is a sign that He is not ordinary angelic or human being and refusing to believe that is to ascribe magical powers to Christ and that would negate the spirit both biblical and quranic writings.
While Mohammed claimed that he did not know all things in 11:31, and never guaranteed that himself or his followers would definitely make heaven, only Jesus Christ could give His followers high honors and assurances concerning the day of Resurrection. Even the Quran testifies of this; "I will cause thee to die, and I will raise thee to Me, and I will purify thee of those who believe not. I will set thy followers above the unbelievers till the resurrection Day," (3:55).
If you meditate on any of the Koran verses that portray Jesus Christ, you find inherent attributes that are exclusively distinctive of God not shared with any human at all. Jesus Christ did not enjoy only one of these attributes but He included all of them in His blessed person, so that He may leave no doubt concerning His deity and divinity.
The New Testament, which is accepted by Mohammed, recorded that the All-mighty God became a perfect man (something that was easy for Him to do) and came from heaven to our earth to save men. The Bible says of the beginning when the Word was, “and the Word was with God, and the word was God … and the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth." (John 1:1,14). Then the Bible continues the portrayal of Christ, saying; "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness; He who was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the spirit, Seen of angels, Preached among the nations, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory." (1 Timothy 3:16).
In justifying the honor placed on Jesus, Allah is quoted in Quran as saying; “Isa (Jesus), I am about to cause your term on earth to end and lift you up to Me. I shall take you away from those who disbelieve and exalt your followers above them till the Day of Resurrection."
The Jews believe, as many of the Muslims do, that the idea of "The Son of God" was an innovation of Christianity, brought as a heresy against the faith in the One God. But in the Jewish Torah or Old Testament, you will find that the doctrine of God's Son is braided, fused, and embedded its very foundations. Psalm 2:10-12 says; "Now therefore be wise, O ye kings: Be instructed, ye judges of the earth. Serve Jehovah with fear, And rejoice with trembling. Kiss the son, lest he be angry, and ye perish in the way, For his wrath will soon be kindled. Blessed are all they that take refuge in him."
The wisest human that ever lived, King Solomon, made known that that Son is the Son of the Omni-potent Creator to whom nothing is impossible: "Who hath ascended up into heaven, and descended? Who hath gathered the wind in his fists? Who hath bound the waters in his garment? Who hath established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou knowest? " (Proverbs 30:4)

yazach: @bold, please try to stop using those statement even if someone abuses you, the moment you start abusing the person makes you be like the person

Now to your response, am sure you understand what I am saying, but to make it more clear:
Their is different between interpretation and translation and I have not even say anything on the interpretation of the verse but the translation

In point no 6 of your post, it read thus:

6. Jesus Christ alone was distinguished from all others in the sense that He was the Creator: "I will create for you out of clay as the likeness of a bird; then I will breathe into it and it will be a bird." (3)House of Imran 42).

But in every translation of the quran this is what we found
Qura'an 3 vs 42. And (remember) when the angels said: "O Maryam (Mary)! Verily, Allah has chosen you, purified you (from polytheism and disbelief), and chosen you above the women of the 'Alamin (mankind and jinns) (of her lifetime)."

The similitude of the point 6 is like saying: B is the 1st letter of English alphabet

So the question I asked from the beginning still remain unanswered:
will you still tell me you go through the mentioned verses of the qura'an to confirm its authenticity? If yes, please copy and past the verse in the point six in your response
Thanks

Please check 5:110 for the correct quote.

yazach: I will start by point no 6(six), this is because I will want you to be sincere as any insincerity will not yield anything.
I you look at the bold in your post you will agree with me that the statement was not true because if you truly read the verses, you won't post this sixth point at all.
Now let us open the qura'an and confirm what we have, then merge it with the post if it is true.

Point 6 posted by you
6. Jesus Christ alone was distinguished from all others in the sense that He was the Creator: "I will create for you out of clay as the likeness of a bird; then I will breathe into it and it will be a bird."
Qura'an Verse used: (3)House of Imran 42). i.e Qura'an 3:42

What the real verse says:
Qura'an 3:42. And (remember) when the angels said: "O Maryam (Mary)! Verily, Allah has chosen you, purified you (from polytheism and disbelief), and chosen you above the women of the 'Alamin (mankind and jinns) (of her lifetime)."

The question now is that can you still tell me you that you read this verse and confirm its truthfulness?

Here, you need to be more sincere with me. You very well know that verse may have been misquoted, but it is right in the Quran, don"t you?

Abdulsalam20: BUT IF ANYTHING I POSTED HERE SEEMS OFFENSIVE I TENDER MY HUMBLE APOLOGY TO EVERYONE BUT LET THE FOUL WORDS BE SUSPENDED BY EVRYONE MOST ESPECIALLY YOUR BROTHERS THE WAY MOST OF THEM POST IS ERYBAD MOST ESPECIALLY
BOSTDIAMOND .............ONES AGAIN I AM SORRY I NEVER INTEND TO USE IT BUT IT IS DUE TO ANGER........AND ALSO I HAVE MODIFY THE POST

Apology accepted. We are all human. Please take discussions here as intellectual exchanges of matured minds and avoid allowing anyone get into you. We are all here to learn from both wise and foolish posts. I believe we all appreciate your maturity in apologising.

yazach: I will start by point no 6(six), this is because I will want you to be sincere as any insincerity will not yield anything.
I you look at the bold in your post you will agree with me that the statement was not true because if you truly read the verses, you won't post this sixth point at all.
Now let us open the qura'an and confirm what we have, then merge it with the post if it is true.

Point 6 posted by you
6. Jesus Christ alone was distinguished from all others in the sense that He was the Creator: "I will create for you out of clay as the likeness of a bird; then I will breathe into it and it will be a bird."
Qura'an Verse used: (3)House of Imran 42). i.e Qura'an 3:42

What the real verse says:
Qura'an 3:42. And (remember) when the angels said: "O Maryam (Mary)! Verily, Allah has chosen you, purified you (from polytheism and disbelief), and chosen you above the women of the 'Alamin (mankind and jinns) (of her lifetime)."

The question now is that can you still tell me you that you read this verse and confirm its truthfulness?

abdulsalam20, you need to realize that the crop of people engaged in discussions here are not riff-raffs and neither are they so degenerate that you will be in position to carelessly use foul words on them. Some are more like your superiors in every way and standard and you are only chanced to discuss with them because they chose to make NL a forum for sharing intelligent discourse. In real life, you may never have the chance to get near them for discussions, mind you.

No wonder people associate Islam with violence, uncouth words and barbarism.

While I believe that Abdulsalam20 is no longer worthy of any response from sensible intellectuals because of his foul language, which portrays Muslims as people without good manners and decency, I believe you, yazach still remains worthy of sensible response and further intelligent discourse.

You may want to check the various versions of translations of quran to find out that not all agree with chapter and verse divisions. That your quran's interpretation states something else in the verse quoted by another does not invalidate the other. We all realize that unlike the Bible which is generally similar in chapters and verses, divisions in qurans differ from interpreter to interpreter. For this reason, please cut us some slacks if we miquote verses and chapters, but still state what is somewhere else in the quran.

What I want you to do therefore, is either give us the correct chapter and verse where these quotes are in your own interpretation or in the alternative, tell us without doubt that what is quoted is not in the quran.

That established, I want you to ponder on these. Jesus was definitely acclaimed as creator in the quran. First, He is called the word of God. We all know that God created by His Word and the book of John begins by describing Jesus as this Word, by whom all things were created. Second, the quran established that Jesus made a bird from clay and made it to come alive. You will agree with me that only One who is God in nature can create like this, wouldn't you? No other person in Islamic history has ever been reported to be capable of this creative ability. Third, the quran, I believe, described the way by which God created human beings as making them as mould of clay and giving them life, which is the capability of the Creator only.

If we are saying, therefore, that Jesus is acclaimed as Creator by the quran, are we wrong in making such conclusions? If we are wrong, what is your explanations on my submissions of Jesus' ability to create?

Abdulsalam20: I THINK WE SHOULD DISCUSS WHO ARE THE TRUE NTICHRIST AND WHO ARE THE FALSE PROPHETS PLS START WITH WHAT U UNDERSTAND BY ANTICHRIST AND WHY MUSLIM ARE ANTICHRIST (ONLY QUOTE FROM BIBLE AND QURAN)....AND ALSO WHY MUHAMMAD IS A FALSE PROPHET

To void derailing the thread, we could start this in another discussion post entirely. But take this caution; when it comes to apocalypses, that thread has to specify which one we should extol; Judeo-Christian or Muslim apocalyptic writings, because we can never get anywhere with arguing from different perspectices. In the alternative, we could just agree to share different views on the topic without trying to convince each other.

But just to throw in a clue, the book of John tells us specifically who an antichrist is.

[I Jn. 2: 22 ] "Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son."

You have to establish here, what 'Christ' means, whether a prophet of quran or One that is in union with the Father and the Spirit.

According to Oxford Advaced Learners dictionary, Christ is defined as:

(In Judaism) The anointed one or messiah predicted in Jewish prophecy.
(In Christianity) A title given to Jesus of Nazareth, seen as the fulfiller of the messianic prophecy; often treated as a personal name.

Abdulsalam20: I THINK WE SHOULD DISCUSS WHO ARE THE TRUE NTICHRIST AND WHO ARE THE FALSE PROPHETS PLS START WITH WHAT U UNDERSTAND BY ANTICHRIST AND WHY MUSLIM ARE ANTICHRIST (ONLY QUOTE FROM BIBLE AND QURAN)....AND ALSO WHY MUHAMMAD IS A FALSE PROPHET

From your own perspective, "Who is an antichrist?"

I hope that you know there is a differentiation between an antichrist and the Antichrist, who is a personality expected at the end of days.

[quote author=gidjah][/quote]To anyone who does not know better, you have quite a plausible defense there, except that it is a myth created to cover up for Mohammadean wars. Consider these:

1. In the account of the Battle of Badr, Muhammad sent his men out to raid caravans, then deliberately provoked a battle with the Meccan army sent out to defend them.

2. Three Jewish tribes of Medina were cleansed because they had rejected Muhammad’s claims of prophethood (and because the Muslims wanted their possessions).

3. Of the battle with Banu Mustaliq, an Arab tribe Bukhari wrote:
"The Prophet had suddenly attacked Bani Mustaliq without warning while they were heedless and their cattle were being watered at the places of water. Their fighting men were killed and their women and children were taken as captives" (Bukhari 46:717). This was without any effort at making peace with Bani Mustaliq. In this case, Muhammad's men raped the women (with his approval) after slaughtering the men (Sahih Muslim 3371).

4. In Mohammad's attack on the Lihyan, the people were clearly not prepared for war and saved themselves only by fleeing into the hills (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 718).

5. Muhammad attacked the people of Taif as soon as he had the opportunity to avenge their rejection of him (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 280 & 872).

6. In Muhammad's first attack on the Christians, there was no compelling reason for him to send an army to Muta (in Syria, where they met with disaster at the hands of the Byzantines). Had this been a matter of self-defense, then the enemy would surely have followed the routed army back to Arabia, but this was not the case (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 791).

7. Near the end of his life, the prophet of Islam directed military campaigns for the mere purpose of spreading Islamic rule. He knew that some cities would resist and others would not. He left instructionsto his people for dealing with each case:

Quoting Sahih, "The Messenger of Allah said: If you come to a township (which has surrenderedwithout a formal war) and stay therein, you have a share (that will be in the form of an award) in (the properties obtained from) it. If a township disobeys Allah and His Messenger (and actually fights against the Muslims) one-fifth of the booty seized therefrom is for Allah and His Apostle and the rest is for you. (Sahih Muslim 4346 ). This was apparently wr for booty only.

8. To extend Islamic domination, Mohammad raided Tabuk, which was a second incursion into the Christian territoryof Syria, and forced the local populace to pay him tribute after ambushing and killing local civilians to assert his authority (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 903).

9. In the “convert or die” mandate given to an Arab tribe, the Banu al-Harith:

"... the apostle sent Khalid bin Walid… to the Banu al-Harith and ordered him to invite them to Islam three days before he attacked them. If they accepted then he was to accept it from them, and if they declined he was to fight them. So Khalid set out and came to them, and sent out riders in all directions inviting the people to Islam, saying, “If you accept Islam you will be safe.” So the men accepted Islam as they were invited. (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 959).

Obviously self-defense was not a factor in any of these cases.

10. In fact, the first part of the 9th Sura, the most bellicose chapter of the Qur’an, was revealed shortly after the Muslims had established military dominance in Mecca. Consider one of the more violent verses:

"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them (9:5)
The words, “when the forbidden months are past,” precludes the possibility that this was a matter of self-defense. Secondly, what was the offence of the people other than that they did not accept Islam? The Muslims had already been given the divine right to fight during the sacred months, and it is simply implausible that they would have suffered attacks over a four month period without defending themselves. That they were not under attack is consistent with the historical context, in which the Haj period was a traditional time of peace and tolerance throughout Arabia.

Although not under attack from the pagans, Muhammad ordered his men to chase and kill the unbelievers following the Haj. The pagans who agreed to become Muslim (ie. practice the pillars of Islam, zakatandsalat) would be allowed to live following their conversion. Verse 9:29 offersa separate rule forJews and Christians, allowing them to keep their religion as long as they pay protection money to Muslims and acknowledge the inferiority of their faith. Should they resist, then they should be killed.

11. One of the best documented examples of Muslim aggression during the lifetime of Muhammad is the attack on the peaceful community of Khaybar. This followed the treaty of Hudaibiya between the Muslims and Meccans, which called for a period of peace between the two groups. The treaty was controversial with Muslims, not only because it contradicted Allah’s prior mandate to “drive out” the Meccans with violent force (2:191), but also because Muhammad agreed not to be recognized as a prophet in the document (Muslim 4401).

Muhammad decided that it was prudent to attack the Jews at Khaybar only in order to regain the respect of his people and placate their grumbling with military victory and (especially) the stolen wealth that followed. The sleepy farming community, located about 100 miles outside of Medina, posed no sort of necessary threat. There are at least three historical references that contradict any notion of self-defense on the part of Muhammad. The first is a description of the initial attack by Ibn Ishaq/Hisham, who wrote:

"We met the workers of Khaybar coming out in the morning with their spades and baskets. When they saw the apostle and the army they cried, “Muhammad with his force,” and turned tail and fled… The apostle seized the property piece by piece…" (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 757)

The people of Khaybar were not attacking Muhammad. They were farming their land with shovels and buckets, not even knowing that they were supposed to be at war. This is further confirmed in the same text:

"When the apostle raided a people he waited until the morning. If he heard a call to prayer he held back; if he did not hear it he attacked. We came to Khaybar by night, and the apostle passed the night there; and when morning came he did not hear the call to prayer, so he rode and we rode with him." (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 757)

Muhammad attacked only after waiting to see if the people of Khaybar issued a morning call to prayer. This would have no possible relevance had they already been at war with him. Perhaps the best proof that Muhammad was not acting in self-defense is the fact that his own people did not understand why they were marching to war. His son-in-law, who was in charge of the military expedition, had to ask for justification:

"Allah's Messenger called Ali [and said]: “Proceed on and do not look about until Allah grants you victory,” and Ali went a bit and then halted and did not look about and then said in a loud voice: “Allah's Messenger, on what issue should I fight with the people?” Thereupon he (the Prophet) said: ”Fight with them until they bear testimony to the fact that there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his Messenger …”"(Sahih Muslim 5917)

The question Ali posed would have been unnecessary had the Muslims been under attack by the Khaybar or if the answer to the question were obvious. As it is, Muhammad’s reply underscores the ostensible purpose of the campaign, which was to force the Jews into acknowledging the superiority of Islam.

Muhammad’s men easily captured Khaybar and divided up the loot. The prophet of Islam tortured the community’s treasurer to extract information, then had him killed (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 764). Muhammad then took the man’s widow, Saffiya, as his wife after trading two other captured women to one of his lieutenants (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 758). The surviving Jews were allowed to stay on their land provided that they gave their Muslim masters an ample share of their crops.

Therefore, the rule of aggression in Islam, from the example set by Muhammad, is that it is proportional to the power held by Muslims, and not the persecution that they are under. The rare verses of peace in the quran were "revealed" in Mecca, when true oppression existed. The verses of violence that are revealed later correspond to Muslim military might even as any persecution of Muslims had largely dried up.

It is very unfortunate however, tht people try to connect Mohammedean jihads to defense purposes only, when the exegetic and historical contexts clearly state otherwise.

proo212: @Abdulsalam20,

There is also this hadith...



There are a lot people saying that they are not muslims, at that time there will be no uncertainty of who he is because he will unite all the sects that are warring against each other at the present time.

That's a good addition to the developments currently unfolding before our eyes. That hadith is near to the truth, I must say, but it may not happen exactly as the hadith says. The Bible makes it more explicit in the prophecies concerning the coming Antichrist and False Prophet. If we delve fully into that now, we will derail the topic.

But surely, the Islamists are gathering an army that would terrorize the world with endless wars under the Antichrist. That, I believe, is the purpose for which God has allowed these Takfiri insurgencies that would be incorporated into a reckless army of invasions to enforce the policies under the New World Order of the Antichrist.

This same conglomerate army of volunteers and national interests, with coalition of Magog (Russia), and Meshec and Tubal (China) and other nations would invade and occupy the whole of Palestine, including Jerusalem, and later fulfill the prophecies concerning the Armageddon war when they confront Christ in the final war.

yazach: My brother!!!! but you said you have a translated qura'an that you use to read? If you truly do

1- did you read and confirm those things brought up by that man before you even post it here

If you don't mind, we can pick each point and engage each other regarding those points

I was only sharing what someone wrote. I owe no responsibility if the verses are accurately quoted. But, yes, I read the message and I'm in agreement with all the points raised. Some of them may not be convincing enough for the critical mind of an expert in quran like you, but of course, the average person understands and accepts the submissions. They are all in the quran and I am ready to confirm that I have definitely read each and everyone in the quran before.

You may want to take it up point by point and show your disagreements, but surely, I will be ready to defend them. I guess that will take us deeper into the study of the quran, but first, in order not to waste our time, we must be ready to accept what the book says on these issues at face level except where exegesis proves otherwise. Trying to interpret to justify our own ideas will only take us into argumentations, which goes off course from apologetics.

yazach: My brother!!!! but you said you have a translated qura'an that you use to read? If you truly do

1- did you read and confirm those things brought up by that man before you even post it here

If you don't mind, we can pick each point and engage each other regarding those points

I was only sharing what someone wrote. I owe no responsibility if the verses are accurately quoted. But, yes, I read the message and I'm in agreement with all the points raised. Some of them may not be convincing enough for the critical mind of an expert in quran like you, but of course, the average person understands and accepts the submissions. They are all in the quran and I am ready to confirm that I have definitely read each and everyone in the quran before.

You may want to take it up point by point and show your disagreements, but surely, I will be ready to defend them. I guess that will take us deeper into the study of the quran, but first, in order not to waste our time, we must be ready to accept what the book says on these issues at face level except where exegesis proves otherwise. Trying to interpret to justify our own ideas will only take us into argumentations, which goes off course from apologetics.