₦airaland Forum

vicenzo:
You are not serious. Just stay off Igbo issues.
Focus on your failed nation. Leave Ndiigbo alone.

Stop mis representing us before the world.

Ndiigbo of this century will not allow such mis representations go uncorrected and the carrier of such mis representations and image assassination put in an uncomfortable situation.

You are not the elected speaker of igbo land nor are you a sole custodian of igbo affairs nor a member of representative of any part of igbo land.
Speak for Ipob alone if u must. Jeeez. No wonder the Ipobs are never taken serious.

Muafrika2:
We do.

Well, how come we hardly see them? I do watch Africa magic east Africa and kenyan weddings, I have thoroughly searched for not just Kenya, but Uganda, Tanzania, e.t.c That was how i discovered the Taraab culture of coastal Tanzanians.

I really don't want it to look like i'm taking this thread back to the way it was but pls i'd like to see Kenyan cultural attires being promoted like theseNigerian and Ethiopian ones which are essentially part of everyday life or different Kenyan couples and their guests representing their cultures?

vicenzo:
In Igbo land (south eastern Nigeria), there are descendants of people who were believed to be inferior, slaves and outcasts in the past and till date they are being discriminated in their homelands, they can never intermarry or lead their superiors in anything. It's really terrible.

What type of trash is this? First of all, Igboland does not translate to SE Nigeria, as there are Igbos in South South Nigerian states of Delta( Enu-ani), Rivers( Egbema, Asa,Ndoki, ), Cross Rivers( Isobo) Akwa Ibom( Ndoki), etc and Igbos in the North, as found in Benue state, the Umuezekoha clan of Izzi.

Why are you Nigerians hell bent on mis representing my people before the rest of Africa?

No such thing as you described existed in Igboland.
Osu caste system practiced in some parts of Igboland is often mis understood and misrepresented by non Igbos like you.

Please, stop this rubbish in the future.
Damn! Why is the average Nigerian wired to be so Igbophobic.

Ok, can u pls tell us what Osu caste system is about, Mr Igboland?
I don't think Kenyans here need to ask u guys. They can go online and read up about it for themselves from the mouth of your fellow igbos. There are many nairaland threads about it.
Any kenyan here interested should go and read online about the Osu caste system in Igbo land. No need for any further arguments.

Ipob members always looking for every avenue to spread hate as if we don't relate with free minded and patriotic igbos everyday who explain all these things to us.

PissedYagami:
A Maasai guy in London
Sir Richard Branson(I guess you know him) with Maasai attire

I think the masais really keep their culture, but do they and all other Kenyans go to work, offices, malls, assemblies, excursions and all social gatherings in these attires?

Muafrika2:
You are joking, right?

These were the traditional garments used by various Kenyan communities:

1. Leather - most common
2. Lesso/Khanga
3. Kikoy

All these have been modernize.

For photos, go back a few pages when we posted several

Why dont your people always promote them? I dont see them worn by your people always in your social gatherings or even movies. For us, even our political leaders and most elderly and middle agaed people are always on cultural attires during a function.

I have another question for Kenyans here
Muafrika2, MtuMsuper, PissedYagami

Why don't Kenyans and other east Africans have or promote their own unique kinds of cultural attires like Nigerians, west africans, south africans, Horn Africans and others do?
I mean, if i visit any other African country, i would like to attend their social gatherings and see them looking radiant in their cultural attires and display. I also think it makes so much sense for individual African countries to have their own unique and nice cultural attires to define and distinguish them wherever they are all over the world.
Can u guys pls explain to me the reasons for this?


See how lovely these Africans look always representing


Ghanaians
Ethiopians
South Africans
Nigerians

Muafrika2:
Thanks IanSweet,

I think Nigeria is ripe for Africanized systems of Government, or Africanized democracy. When one is conquered, you adopt the conquering nations laws, way of life and other systems, which they use to keep their subjects in check. The fact that traditional Kings have almost as much respect as is the past is a good thing, but the Western capitalistic influence is corrupting them and turning them into predators for personal gain.

That's where legislation should come in. Not to outlaw traditional but to create a clear, impartial systems of enforcement, and also to create allowance for modern realities like capitalism and ownership of property. That will enable fairness in application of their laws.

As a side note, So long as sharia is not forced on non - Muslims, who cares if they want to chop their hands off for minor crimes. It's just another legal system created by men to bring order, and I hear gold is hawked in the streets in places like Dubai due to such laws. Try that in a democracy

You have said nothing but the pure undiluted truth and reality.

As for sharia law, it just does not make sense for some parts of a country to operate sharia law while others do not, it should either be fully implemented (which can only happen in overwhelming muslim populated country) or not at all.
Christians and secularists residing in the north would always be affected e.g you cannot take alcohol as long as u are in a sharia state whether you are a christian or muslim, you cannot wear certain kinds of clothings, you and your spouse, lover or sister cannot be in a public transport system together because women have their own buses and trains different from men.
Why should the muslims be completely free in non sharia states to do whatever they like but others cannot be free in their own states? That is discrimination in itself.

MtuMsuper:
Imagine if i were an investor in your country and i happened to land a contract. In case of a breach or misunderstanding, which code of practice shall i seek recourse from? And if i commit a civil offence, where shall I be judged? You guys should create an app that reads your GPS location and tells you where and how you shall be judged should you at anytime interract with the law.
They say one must obey the law of the land. I guess one must always ask them self :which law and which land.

I think if the presdo doesn't practice it, why should the subjects ?
What are your thoughts of living in society that practices feudal and exclusionary social norms? I think it's sad to determine one's prospects in life on account of the family he/she is born into.

Well, it depends on the level of your investment. If your investment is into billions or millions of dollars, expect the federal and state govts to vehemently fight on your behalf or seriously dialogue with the community monarchs depending on how powerful and influential these monarchies are and also the issues of contention.

It depends on the kind of civil offense comitted, however, one can plead his case up to the level of the federal supreme court which is supposed to be more even more powerful than the President himself and any other authority whatsoever (but u know amongst we black Africans it is sometimes just paper writing, some people still tend to be bigger than the law). I really don't know how our laws apply to foreigners but a foreigner is definitely to be more respected and softly handled especially depending on one's country's influence and socio-economic status.

It is really really horrendous and lamentable to live in a society of exclusionary social norms especially with the cognizance of one's place among the lower social strata, but the irony is that religion in most cases tend to supplement the inadequacies and due feeling of resentment among the trampled of the society with the thoughts that they were pre-destined to be where they are by God.

However, do u know that In spite of how awful this societal lifestyle is, it has it's own advantages? In Nigeria for instance, crime rates are lower in the north compared to the south. Cases of armed robbery, kidnappings, scamming, blood money and all manners of negative social vices are far far more rampant in the south than in the north because most poor northernerns are very much contented with their state of poverty unlike poor southernerns who would be ready to do absolutely anything to become rich, show off and intimidate each other.
Northern Nigerians also tend to be more humble, simple, trustworthy and easily united more than southern Nigerians who have this prouder, pompous and individualistic attitude without trust for each other, everyone always wants to outsmart his/her neighbour. This is the kind of attitude most of you foreigners see and label all Nigerians as Proud, loud and dubious people.
This simpler attitude of northernerns is what makes them dominate Nigeria politically while southernerns are left divided and always fighting each other.

chrisooblog:
Nice one very educative if you ask me I would say money is a huge influence for instance when Sharia law is being enforced it's usually affects poor people but when wealthy people like politicians embezzle government funds they are conveniently tried under federal laws where their rights are guaranteed.
Hope you don't mind me asking what state are you from?

Definitely, u are correct. U cannot expect a comissioner or governor's hand to be cut off if he steals or a minister's daughter stoned to death according to sharia law. It is meant for the poor.

I'm partly from Kogi and Kaduna states but born and bred in Plateau state.

MtuMsuper:
By the way, am fully aware that there are Nigerian states that practice Sharia Law. How does this situation stand with regard to the Nigerian constitution? Also, how do we have separate laws for separate people within the same country : are people equal in Nigeria, is it wrong to say that technically there is no Nigeria since you will be judged differently based on one's religion. I find it so confusing that different codes of law can operate in a "country " ,that is if we understand a country to be a single political entity governed by a code known as a constitution.

Infact, i must confirm to you that this is one of the most embarrasing challenges we are facing in Nigeria. It just seems like a certain region is superior to Nigerian laws, the southernerns always play the victim card here but the truth is that they (southernerns) are as guilty as the northern muslims who practice sharia law against our constitution, because many southernerns (traditionalists especially) do uphold their cultural laws over the national constitutional laws and everyone in their territory (natives and non-natives) are forced to obey them.
The northern muslims tried and are still trying to make sharia law equal to our Federal civil laws (can u imagine?). The move has continually been rejected, so it was taken to the state level in 2001 and about 12 out of the 19 northern states declared sharia law and believe u me that as long as these northernerns are concerned, that Sharia law could be deemed superior over our federal laws. It lead to a very terrible conflict in some of these 12 northern states with huge christian populations (like Kaduna state).
However due to southern social (western) influence, many of the rich and elite and even educated middle class northern muslims find it hard to comply to sharia laws and this is what sometimes kill the vigour of enforcement of sharia laws in the core-north. I think in the heat of the sharia wave of 2001, there was a northern governor's son who went against the sharia law and nothing could be done against him. See our President's daughter's wedding (although it was done in Abuja which is not under sharia), but the president is from a sharia state and there was secular music, performance and dancing in the wedding, infact it was very much a secular wedding.

Core-northern Nigerian muslims have refused to face the reality that as long as they share one country with us (christians), they can never enforce sharia law fully or even practice it fully, it will always be watered down.

At that same time of the sharia heat wave in the past, there were 2 muslims who converted to christianity in a sharia state and according to sharia law they were supposed to be killed, but these muslim converts claimed that they were never muslims in their lives and have always been christians and definitely all manners of human right and chrisitian agencies came to their defence and sharia law could not take place.

MtuMsuper:
I am disturbed by the fact that going to school now becomes a choice!!!! Education is everything. Education Education Education!! It must be compulsory for all school going kids. You are liable for arrest in Kenya if you fail to take your kids to school.
Now explain to me further about this decree thing. Does this decree by a traditional leader supercede the (secular ) law? By the way, am fully aware that there are Nigerian states that practice Sharia Law. How does this situation stand with regard to the Nigerian constitution? Also, how do we have separate laws for separate people within the same country : are people equal in Nigeria, is it wrong to say that technically there is no Nigeria since you will be judged differently based on one's religion. I find it so confusing that different codes of law can operate in a "country " ,that is if we understand a country to be a single political entity governed by a code known as a constitution.

Education is everything indeed, the place where Nigerian law misses it is by not enacting a law to penalize parents whose children are not in school. Kudos to Kenya for enacting such laws.
U see, let me tell u one problem with Nigeria is that people try to tribalise or religionise everything. The cultural difference and mentality between the christian south and the muslim north is just too wide that i sometimes wonder if we could ever make it to the top in one piece.
If a southern legislator for instance request for such a law to be established, u will just need tk see the way many bigoted northern muslim legislators, traditional leaders and masses will vehemently oppose such, claiming that such law does not apply to their religion and that western education is not compulsory in their religion.
Our legislators have tried to place a law of 18 years and above for any girl to be married, but northern muslim legislators opposed it. Infact it's just terrible.


In some tribes and towns, the Kingship laws somehow has more power than the secular laws, not necessarily constitutionally but due to fear and intimidation. This is more common in the south.

Take for instance, i visited a city WARRI in the south and it was a working day not a public holiday, but to my surprise all the business places were closed that day and i inquired, only for me to be told that a chief and not even the king was to be buried on that day, sometimes it may be due to a tribal festival, kingship coronation or what have you, and everyone in the confines of the chiefdom or cultural territory just has to obey it, if you don't, you may not be able to withstand the harrasment or even survive to tell the tale and if u think the court will fight for you, u are wasting your time..

Muafrika2:
Alright.

Do the Kings have title deeds to their community land or is it more of a presumed trust? How do their subjects access them for things like farming?

It is more of a presumed trust.
For instance, if my family has a land area and the kingship is interested in it, they can overly request for it (although this is legally wrong) but out of fear and respect for the kingship i may have to relinquish it, but in some chiefdoms where the king has lesser power, i could sue the king to court (which really doesn't make sense, cos the king may still likely win the case through influence), while in some tribes, a commoner does not just have any option, like Benin kingdom where the subjects see their King as a god.
It's just very embarrasing how traditional some Nigerian societies are.

Most families have their own ancestral farm lands, but the royal families usually have so much more and somehow is lord of all.

Muafrika2:
Alright.

And the class divisions? Are there castes in the North?

Based on tribe?

Any slaves?

Do the Kings have title deeds to their community land or is it more of a presumed trust? How do their subjects access them for things like farming?

Yes there are class divisions which really appear as castes if u look at them well. I think the difference between core-northern Nigeria and India is that the Indians accept the fact that they are a caste society, but in Nigeria, the Hausa-fulani and Kanuris will not openly accept it, but that is the way they live in the real sense.

Recently, our president's daughter just got married to a fellow core northern muslim from the Kanuri tribe, and guess what? She got married to the son of a Nigerian billionaire, the boy's father is among the top 10 richest men in Nigeria, but before the boy came her way, many other men up to 3 or 4 northern governors have come to ask for her hand in marriage but she declined probably because those governors were much older than her and already had wives.
The president's wife (mother of the girl) was also the daughter of a former Nigerian governor as our president was a former Nigerian military head of state. I can continue to trace both family's lineages for you and u will see that all the other sibblings always marry either billionaires, former presidents and governors or their children or Kingship families.
(sorry to say), but someone like u or me for instance cannot go and marry from such families even if we are muslims or are personally rich (such kind of love does not exist) because most marriages in such classes are usually arranged marriages and your family name is what speaks for you.

Southernerns (christians n muslims) and other christians in the north do not practice this kind of lifestyle at all (but it still happens nevertheless) because we dont believe in arranged marriages, young people are free to wander the world and find love wherever we want, although some of our parents are still very traditional and conservative and will reject their children marrying from another tribe, religion and social class.


There are no slaves in the real sense but some families, clans and tribes are still somehow superior to the others. Like people from royal families and royal clans are somehow superior to commoners in their own societies and sometimes even outside, they are given preferential treatments in many apsects.
In Igbo land (south eastern Nigeria), there are descendants of people who were believed to be inferior, slaves and outcasts in the past and till date they are being discriminated in their homelands, they can never intermarry or lead their superiors in anything. It's really terrible.
For core-northern Nigeria (hausa land), the hausanized fulanis or the mixed hausa-fulanis are somehow deemed superior to the pure unmixed hausas (u know that fulanis conquered the hausas and till date rule over them traditionally) however these fulanis have been hausanized but they still know their lineages.

ashewoboy:
that guy go get plenty vein for him dick. i heard ladies love veiny dicks, how true is that?

Veiny dick? What a word combination.

EgusiSoup:
How is this a fine boy?

All these ibadan girls never fail to disgrace their sense of sensibilities. If this guy is ur definition of fine boy then i wish to reserve my comment

Anyways i really don't give a fuc.k!

You're just jealous. The boy is very very handsome.

ireneony:
Nice one. Fine boy

As in ehn, the boy fine die. Am so tripping

Muafrika2:
What kind of issues do they decree over? Local disputes like family, Crime and cultural rites?

Yes, both local, family, crime, cultural rites and many others. It differs from tribe to tribe and community to community tho.

Muafrika2:
Not overbearing ones

Our traditional societies were not oppressive There are countless.

Pre colonial Nigeria had many kingdoms and even empires with very very powerful monarchs and the colonial masters did not abolish them or even reduce their influence as such, they used these traditional rulers for indirect rule system and even empowered them more in parts of the country. This is why they are quite powerful in Nigeria.
Infact let me shock u, in some parts of Nigeria, the monarchs can even issue a decree which most residents of a whole city must abide to.

MtuMsuper:
My research also led me to discover that depending on alot of things, one can say that the southern and predominantly Christian south are more receptive to formal education. Still lots of people are disadvantaged and access to education depends hugely on one's socio economic station. And gender.
I also know that most of agriculture takes place in the north where the climate is savanna, as opposed to the southern tropical forest belt.
There are many Nigerias.

Almost all Nigerians have access to education now because the state and federal govt have been doing so much im that aspect. State owned schools are scott free from the primary to secondary levels and almost all communities have at least a primary and secondary school, it is their right.
Middle class and richer Nigerians only send their children to private schools and sometimes federal govt schools but never state govt schools. Our federal and state govt universities are also very cheap that even the poor people can afford them and many states govts even pay their own indigenes money for being in schools. So, going to school in Nigeria is more of choice.

Southern Nigerian soil is more fertile, just that the north has more vast lands (bigger) and have a higher rural population. The south being about a quarter of the north is smaller and is rapidly becoming urbanized. The discovery and exploration of crude oil in the south is also not helping matters as almsot everyone there want to eat crude oil money, so they rapidly abandoned farming in the last few decades, if not, during colonial times there was a tough competition between all Nigerian regions om farming, we all farmed equally then.

MtuMsuper:
As in 9-10 year old girls regularly become brides to 40 + year old men. I also discovered that in that half of Nigeria, Koranic education or what we call madrassa in Kenya ,is the predominant form of education. No wonder hare brained schemes like BH take root easily : the people are poor, uneducated and uninformed. Mtaji wa ugaidi.
My research also led me to discover that depending on alot of things, one can say that the southern and predominantly Christian south are more receptive to formal education. Still lots of people are disadvantaged and access to education depends hugely on one's socio economic station. And gender.
I also know that most of agriculture takes place in the north where the climate is savanna, as opposed to the southern tropical forest belt.
There are many Nigerias.

I will say, again, you have a point, but it's not entirely as u see it.
Take this issue of child marriage for instance, it is slowly dying in northern muslim Nigeria because the people are now being gradually enlightened and pls 9-10 years age of underage marriage is very unrealistic.
I am a northerner, so i can tell u the reality on ground. In the past, i could tell u that the dominant marriage age among the poorer lower class for ladies should be like 13-15 with the ladies absolutely having no choice of their own, but that trend is really dying as the girls are now attending western schools to a greater extent and are gradually making their choices and the marriage age range for majority of the talakawa (poor masses in hausa) has now grown to like 15-17 years.

The reason why core northern muslim Nigerians still somewhat have a preference for islamic education is because they were the first set of people to start going to school in Nigeria since pre colonial times and even before the british came, islamic education had taken hold in their society. This was specifically the reason why the british colonialists chose to empower the Hausa-fulanis over other Nigerians politically because the british came and met them reading and writing with arabic education. The people took pride in it and that is why till date, many cannot let it go and many prefer it ti western education.

Muafrika2:
I see them on movies. So they are that many? But they must be engaged in business, otherwise I don't see how that would be a source of living with out the power to levy taxes on their subjects.

So, do u mean there are no monarchs and royal fathers in Kenya and all over east Africa?

MtuMsuper:
I have been doing some reading lately. Apparently, in northern Nigeria, there exist a rigid class/social dichotomy between the classes which can't be broken anytime soon. Straight outta 1500. Ufalme na watawalwa. Sultan vs subjects. Strict and unyielding. The devaluation of women goes without saying as does access to formal education.

You have a point, but please not the whole northern Nigeria (but core-northern Nigeria), especially the Hausa- fulani- Kanuri and other strict islamic areas.
I can give u some reasons for such.

Unlike southern and some central Nigerians who are very capitalistic and individualistic, most core northern Nigerians believe in fate and the will of Allah (based on islam) that wealth is not meant for everyone so people who are from poor backgrounds should be contented with their poverty.
You must know that islam has been deeply entrenched in the core-northern Nigerian society that it has become so much into them just like Arabs and even till date many of them hold preference of Islamic arabic education to western education.
Most northern Nigerians do not have this 'get rich or die trying' mentality and that is why poverty and illiteracy is higher in northern Nigeria.

Unfortunately, the rich elite class of the core-north have taken advantage of this situation and used it to become more wealthy and influential in Nigeria (it's just very terrible).
However, the nature of the south (which makes it more progressive) and pressure for western education is gradually rubbing off on the north and most northern and central christians and even the core-northern muslims (though to a lesser extent) are now shifting their mentality to a southern one by the day. So with more contact of southernerns and northernerns, the class (caste-like) structure of core-northern Nigeria might eventually die.

Muafrika2:
Kenyanstar

Don't stop. We should fill the rest of the pages with Magical Kenya now that the discussion has reached a logical conclusion .

Stop being childish.
We have been doing that since the beginning of this thread and it is now close to 300 pages. What difference has it made?

Muafrika2:
I see them on movies. So they are that many? But they must be engaged in business, otherwise I don't see how that would be a source of living with out the power to levy taxes on their subjects.

No, they do not necessarily have to engage in business activities because they are paid by the state and federal govts regularly (good sum). They are also paid by their subjects (from free will). Politicians pay them too heavily to get their blessings and support.

For instance if any foreign or even any big local company want to site something in a place, they must see the traditional leader or monarch first and surely dealing away some good money must be involved.
Being a monarch of a place also somehow gives you ownership to so much land areas in that place, infact they are just very relevant in Nigeria and due to their relevance, top people who want to gain a greater say in a particular place must seek their alliance and this involves some good hard cash involved.

Pls KenyanStar, enough of the pictures. Thousands have been posted already with so much emotional issues attached to them.
Kenya has good and terrible looking places, Nigeria too. So no need to overflog these issues.

Kenyanstar:
Most of them Nubians have married within themselves... they still use their own language thou with both English & swahili as part of their written language.

Meanwhile enjoy the Kenyan magic

Ok

Pls i think we are tired of these pictures. I have seen all about Kenya that i needed to see from the beginning of this thread till now.
Don't take this thread back to the way it was where everyone were posting good pics about their countries and terrible pics to discredit the other.

Muafrika2:
Aristocrats? How do they do that one

We have hundreds of monarchs in Nigeria or don't u know? Northern societies are usually very much class structured with extremely rich political and traditional ruling families at the top.

Muafrika2:
Which of the two are farmers? I know Fulanis are traditionally herders. Not sure of the traditional economic activities of the Hausa.

The pure hausas are the farmers, while a subgroup of the pure fulanis (fulani bororo) are the herders. The majority of pure fulanis and almost all hausanized fulanis live in towns and cities and are mostly business people, politicians, aristocrats and religious leaders, they do not farm as such.

Muafrika2:
Okay. But there are unmixed populations?

Yes, but the mixed Hausa-fulanis seem to be more than the unmixed.

mkenya254:
Let me begin by telling you this. The slum population is not as much as you think. According to our latest census, Kibera had a population of 270,000 people and Mathare 80,000 while NGOs used to say that Kibera has over 1m people.. Lol

You see the way NGOs make money is by inflating actual statistics to get more donor money from international associations. Same way NGOs always portray Africa as a continent where everybody is either dying from AIDS or starving. Then when they come to Nigeria for instance they will take pictures of the worst parts and send it to their donors. While we cannot deny there are problems, some people are out to benefit from the problems and would never like an area to grow. So the said NGOs will pay themselves hefty salaries with your money and live in the best of suburbs then go and do a simple cleaning exercise and that is it.

The slum rehabilitation program was started by the government to offer cheap and affordable formal housing to slum dwellers. Motion of the program has been quite slow due to some people that would make loses if the upgrade plan was to be fully effected and will pay some people small sums to protest the move.

I think u are very correct.
Can't your govt do something about this misinformation by these NGOs? It's really sickening the manner at which these white people potray the worst parts of Africa and augment it, just to gain attention. They keep on misinforming the world about Africa.

Muafrika2:
Are Fulanis assumed to be one with Hausas on that map?

Fulanis and Hausa are somehow one in Nigeria.
Majority of the fulanis who came to Nigeria over 200 years ago settled in hausa land and due to the largeness of hausa population, they were culturally and linguistically absorbed (hausanized).

mkenya254:
My company scales operations for large tech companies or tech departments of companies e.g. Tells, Large banks and insurance companies, betting companies etc. We advise and implement large network systems, horizontal scaling of servers and things of that kind.

Unfortunately there is no time to visit all those cities ! I will be at Lagos then Abuja for a few weeks since all the important companies are usually headquartered in Lagos especially.

Maybe pidgin is not promoted since it is seen as an urbane but developing language akin to Kenya's Sheng?

Ok, interesting. I wish i had a job that would take me around the continent and the world yet. Av only been to 3 other west African nations and Israel on pilgrimage.

Yes, pidgin is a developing urban language truly. Although the influence is widely growing, but standard English language, Hausa, Yoruba and Igbo are also a threat to it.
Nigeria is too big and diverse to take a firm decision sometimes because it will always face strong opposition from different quarters.