₦airaland Forum

Amiri scores.

Paraguay misses.

He missed the target completely.

Woltemade misses.

Musiala scores

Kimmich scores.

This Havertz is so useless.

Waited that long to miss his kick.

wman:
Germany to kick first.

Havertz.

60% chance the team that kicks first wins.

A40:
This is cap. 13km ke? When even the highest is under 12km

Besides ability to run all over the pitch like okete is not commensurate to sheer abilities as you can see from this graphic

Longer careers yes due to sports medicine. That has nothing to do with ability. Italy have not had players as good as Del Piero, Totti, Maldini or Nesta

Stronger and taller how?? You are just making that up. Who measured the strength and height of today's players. Is there a bench press competition I don't know about.

On average, humans have grown 1cm each decade. The nutrition gets better every 10 years.

I never said current athletes have more skills than the 90s athletes, I said the athletes are physically better today.

I don’t know where you got your stats from but it’s totally wrong. Plenty of players cover 13KM with ease in the PL.

PGMOL should be taking notes.

A40:
Better at what? Nobody has successfully explained that to me.

There has been massive advances in sports science, professionalism, nutrition, training, recovery and body work.

Athletes today easily cover 13KM running on the pitch for 90 mins. The average distance covered in the 90s was around 9KM.

They are much more stronger and taller today - they also tend to have longer careers now than what it used to be in the Rudi Voller days.

A40:
I grew up in the era of gunmen like Klinsmann, Voller that's why I am always upset whenever people claim athletes today are better.

When Germany was still Germany who born all these maga to see shirt. Sane, Havertz, Wirtz, Pavlovic

Athletes are better today but zero football skills.

There’s no way Sane or Havertz or Wirtz starts for any German team in the 70s, 80s or 90s.

BlueRayDick:
Cap 🧢

In which planet is Okocha Africa's best talent? 🤡

I am uncomfortable with this Okocha disrespect.

What is wrong with you people?

raumdeuter:
Make sure you sign for clubs how?

Top clubs seek top players. No top club wanted Okocha because he was not productive enough to help them

Na so we go talk about St Maximin and Lualua in future

Alex Ferguson signed Bebe/Djemba-Djemba
Arsene Wenger signed Francis Jeffers/Pascal Cygan
Mourinho signed Papy Djilobodji/Christian Atsu
Guardiola signed Keirrison/Chygrynskiy

Which of these players is better than Okocha?

Top clubs/Elite managers often sign low level talents.

raumdeuter:
If you have genuine talent top organization will seek you out and win something

E get why Man utd Madrid Juventus sought out Ronaldo

It wasnt just Ronaldo deciding he wants to play for them

Okocha can wish all he wants if he is not good enough no one will sign him

Kudos for making the point.

Ronaldo hadn’t won any league at Sporting Lisbon before Man Utd sought out Ronaldo - and that’s the point.

They discovered the talent, they polished the talent and Ronaldo started winning(excellent choices + required talent + work ethic).

Messi was only 13 when Barcelona scouts asked for his signature. He had won nothing professionally but they saw the talent. They groomed the talent and he won a billion trophies for them.

The talent & the success are two different entities.

andrewbaba44:
Wetin okocha do as a footballer wey una Dey talk disrespect ?

It’s you people that overhype him for what he is not

Jay Jay Okocha - Africa’s best talent is overhyped?

michigang:
a good player is a good player whether he wins sth or not. Stop destroying great players. Its very callous of you

You don’t know the context.

Raumdeuter is saying if you don’t win something, you don’t have talent.

In other words, you only have talent if you have won trophies.

Skimpledawg:
Okocha don suffer

The level of disrespect is comical.

It’s a lesson for the up and coming players. It doesn’t matter how you win, just make sure you sign for clubs that win stuff all the time.

In decades to come, kids will argue Pedro Rodriguez(3 CL + 1 WC + 1 Euros) is more talented than Dennis Bergkamp(0 CL + 0 Euros + 0 WC).

raumdeuter:
The main players for Nigeria started from the group to the final

Okocha was even pulled out in the final

Maradona went to a small team and delivered for them, he went to his country's team and delivered for them

Okocha neither delivered for club nor country

Okocha was pulled out for Ugbade(defender) when Westerhof decided to park the bus. Okocha had served his purpose by engineering 2 goals to lead the game.

Okocha was pulled out in the 73rd minute. Westerhof parked the bus for the remainder of the game.

raumdeuter:
He didnt win any league title

In Tunisia 94 he was a bench player. We can name 5 players who were more important than Okocha

Giggs played all his career in the biggest team in England with many stars around him. In Napoli besides Maradona the others were relatively unknown and he gave them a title

Plus gave his country a world cup

Maradona could have also been as successful as Giggs if he made the right choices just like Okocha could have been successful if he made good choices.

You are making excuses for Maradona, you don’t want to make excuses for Giggs.

Okocha started in the semis and the final. How’s he a bench player? Bench players don’t start the most important games.

raumdeuter:
Maradona led a mediocre team to win the toughest league in the world

Okocha does not need to win the toughest league in the world. He went to Germany Turkey France England, he didnt win any trophy

Was there any trophy he won where he was the main man for either club or country

He was just an entertainer

Okocha won trophies(cup competitions) at PSG.

Okocha won Tunisia 94. He was the best player in the semis(assisted Iroha) & the final.

I have told you to focus on Maradona & Giggs.

If talent = success, why is Giggs more successful than Maradona?

raumdeuter:
Maradona went to a lowly side and won them a title

Okocha did not

Thats a major difference. If Okocha had won Bolton a league title now then we for dey talk

Why are you comparing Okocha to Maradona? Every one knows Maradona is 10,000 times better than Okocha.

If talents = success according to you, then Giggs is more talented than Maradona regardless of the choices Maradona made.

So do you STILL stand by your words that talent = success? Only successful players can be talented? 🤣🤣🤣

raumdeuter:
Maradona went to a team that was not a top team Napoli and led them to the title. Giggs played for the strongest team in England

I thought we are measuring success by the number of titles.

Maradona went to a team that wasn’t top team just like Okocha. You said Okocha has no talent because he wasn’t successful - if we follow that logic to the end, it means Maradona had no talent too because he wasn’t as successful as Ryan Giggs.

Maradona could have played for any top team in the world after his success at Mexico 86. Okocha could have also played for any top English side after Tunisia 94/USA 94 - they both made poor choices.

You want to give Maradona a pass, but you won’t give Okocha a pass.

raumdeuter:
Maradona went to a team and won the league title for them

Okocha never won any league title in a top league

The goalpost keeps moving.

As huge as Maradona was, he should have more than 2 league titles.

Ryan Giggs has 13 league titles and 1 Treble & a Double.

Is Giggs better than Maradona?

raumdeuter:
Maradona and Kroos played in different eras. Kroos played at a time when 4 teams were playing in the CL, In the post Bosman era where you can build super teams

Kroos never dominated football and world cup like Maraona did

No no no!

Maradona played in Europe, he played for Barcelona - and because of poor choices(like Okocha), he went to Napoli instead of choosing a big team to play for.

He ended up not winning the big prizes in Europe. Pre-Bosman era didn’t stop Maradona from winning the Champions League. You are just making excuses.

Ruud Gullit played in Maradona’s era, he won double the titles Maradona won. Most of Gullit’s success were in Italy, not Eredivisie.

Lothar Matthaus also played in Maradona’s era and won more than double the titles Maradona won. This was pre-Bosman era too.

If you add the two of them together, they are not as good as 10% of Maradona’s talents and yet they were more successful.

Success and talent are two distinctive entities.

raumdeuter:
Maradons dribbling got results, like goals and asissts at key moment. So his talent = results

He didn’t win CL.

In 50 years time, People will tell you Kroos or Xavi are better players than Maradona because they won more trophies.

Maradona won 11 trophies
Kroos won 34 trophies.

Is Kroos the better talent because he’s more successful?

Your argument is not logical.

raumdeuter:
David Beckham gets more respect outside Europe than say Zidane

Not for his football ability.

They respect him because he married a Spice Girl.

Okocha is respected for what he did on the pitch.

raumdeuter:
Kanu - 2 times African POTY

Okocha - Made Oliver Kahn chop grass

Okocha made FIFA 100(all time list).

He’s the only Nigerian on the list.

Like I said, Okocha gets more respect outside the country than Kanu Nwankwo.

He’s the better talent.

raumdeuter:
Like City bought Grealish too but quickly found out that he was more of an entertainer than a result oriented person. Players like KdB have been using quick decision making to split deep defence for years

Grealish can’t make the England squad

Cherki is planted in the multi-talented French squad.

Dribbling is not just entertainment. Maradona was dribbler and he won the WC with it.

raumdeuter:
So Okocha was better in video games but Kanu was better on the field

Kanu wasnt a top 5 player in any top team, Okocha didn't even make it into the top 22 in any top team

Okocha is more respected by the pundits and media.

There are many pubs in Bolton where you will get free alcohol if you mention you are from the same village as Okocha.

He’s a demi-god in Bolton.

raumdeuter:
KDB send a 40yard pass to Haaland for an assist, Cherki dribbles 6 players gets dispossed
Verdict Cherki is more talented

There’s a reason City bought both players.

Different players with different attributes, they both have their uses. When a defence sits deep like Arsenal did at the Etihad and you need a magician to unlock the defence, that is when you will appreciate Cherki.

raumdeuter:
Coman was not the mainstay of any of his team like Gerrard, There is no team Coman played on that he will be in the first 5 name on the teamsheet

So what is talent if it doesnt get success? I am talented too but I just couldnt be arsed to do what it takes to be successful . How do you measure talent if you take success away from it

Your success = talent IMO

Some will say CR7 is not as talented as Bleep e.g Quaresma. I say Nonsense, Even lets assume its true, whats the point of Quaresma talents in dribbling 6people with no output, doing a Rabona instead of a tap in, doing a outside of the boot shot instead of a simple pass, Flipping over to do a bicylce kick when a simple header will do. Messi and Ronaldo the best players of this generation are players who do things the easy way which some will say "Not enough talent to show"

Tell me what is the talent in dribbling the defence dribbling the keeper and turning around?

Kanu wasn’t the mainstay of any of his team.

He was a substitute throughout his career. Even at Ajax, it was Finidi George, Marc Overmars and Jari Litmanen that occupied the front 3. Kanu came on as a substitute.

At Arsenal, the front two was Dennis Bergkamp and Thierry Henry. Kanu wasn’t top 5 player in any of the top teams he played for.

It cuts both ways.

Coman is bloody successful with mid-talent
Kanu is bloody successful with mid talent

Okocha was unsuccessful but he’s incredibly talented.
Okocha’s card on FIFA games are icons.

raumdeuter:
No one cares about talent that does not translate into success. You can as well be a ball juggler in National stadium. Some will swear Etim Esin was the greatest, Some will swear they have never seen anyone better than Phillip Osondu or Stanley Okoro, Femi Opabunmi etc

There are several top athletes who will admit this one player was better than me at academy but didnt make it

CR7 talked about Fabio Paim who he claimed was better than him but never made it, Michael Jordan talked about a friend who was better than him but never made it pro
Talent for Talent, Quaresma was more talented than many top players in his time but what did he make out of it
Same with all those La Masia whizkids Borja Krkic, Isaac Cuenca, Ansu fati, Halilovic etc who didnt make it to senior level

The subject is about talent, not success.

I already agreed Kanu is more successful.

If we follow this logic of yours, Kingsley Coman is a better player than Stevie Gerrard.

Coman has 14 league titles
Gerrard has 0

Is that a fair conclusion?