₦airaland Forum

How we all define him is where the contentions arise.

Which is why nobody is condemned in the hereafter for their subjective definition of the Godhead during their time as humans. 

Something tells me you don't really believe this as vehemently as you purport.  Especially since you can't tell me why we're not on with the universe yet according to your belief. But, all things take time.

Well, I'm certainly no fanatic with regard to any idea. I'm open minded to new discoveries.

There are no hard and fast rules in my book. But this is where my search for the truth has led me to. Many years ago I spoke to God and asked him to let me know the truth about life - who we are - why we're here -  etc etc, as I was utterly unconvinced by the conflicting, often ridiculous concepts propounded by world religions.

I reckon he's doing that.   

haba, I'm getting a headache now.  All this false doctrine.  

Jen,

Thanks for the apologetics on reincarnation and forgive my ignorance on the subject matter but it begs the question as to the motive of 'god' and the purpose of incarnated spirits.  What you expect me to believe is that for those of us who do not choose to incarnate as human beings, there are multiple perfect universes where one can relax, float on clouds or such like, with no stress and just enjoy existence to the fullest.  Rub-bish! Where is your proof?  It's a positive so there should be proof. Not so?

It's funny you should demand proof - as if the things you believe in have any proof to back them.

The 'proof' I have is from accounts of people who have accessed the other side. I have studied many of these accounts, and what I find most persuasive is the essential uniformity that runs through them despite great cultural/geographic distances separating the experiencers of these phenomena.

And even if this were true, the effect of physical incarnation should be that earthlings are at peace after much counsel and guidance.  Evil is not a trial and tribulation, evil is a state of being.

But you're assuming it's the same spirits that keep coming back to earth, which is not necessarily the case. Some spirits have only just started incarnating on earth, while those that once did have stopped doing so, once they've attained spiritual maturity.

It's an individual thing, not a collective thing, so progress spirits make on earth is not directly related to the progress the collectivity of souls at any one time on earth make.

In fact if I were not human in prior incarnations then my constant exposure to a highly evolved and perfect universe should by no means cause me to incarnate as a wicked human being.  It just does not make sense!

No soul to my knowledge seeks to incarnate as a wicked human being. But you must realise that the prevailing consciousness on earth is such that many incarnated spirits end up that way, ie committing acts that run counter to universal Oneness.

Remember that a memory veil is placed on incarnating souls so as not to let them know their true immortal selves as humans, so most souls, in their temporary human state,  operate under a state of ignorance, imbibing their beliefs and certain behavioural patterns from their physical human environment, which ends up helping to shape their character as human adults.

That any soul would choose to incarnate as a human being at all, in that case, is beyond me.

From our perspective, it does sound crazy, but not from the perspective of a soul.

From a soul's perspective, it's not a really big deal. It is said that in the spirit world (which is reportedly exceedingly vast and filled with life) they have schools filled with classrooms and libraries, as well as a variety of recreational facilities!

The time it takes for a spirit to live an earth life is comparable to a student taking his leave from the class to visit the bathroom/loo.

In Michael Newton's book Journey of Souls, one of his clients, under deep hypnosis, reported the process as happening in just that manner. He'd briefly left the class study and returned a few minutes later, having led a full 70 year life on earth.

So to spirits, some who decide to be born disabled, or born in war-torn areas etc etc, it's no great shakes, because THEY KNOW it's just a game, an illusion - and a very short one at that.

They do it because of the valuable lessons they gain from experiencing the lack of the things they take for granted in their realms - justice, abundance, love, order, compassion  etc etc.

They value such qualities more by undergoing experiences such as offered by earth conditions.

A spirit that's never incarnated as a physical being in a tough place like earth is a bit like a mummy's boy that's never seen 'ard time', and is thus, not quite as strong a character as someone that's been there, done that, and smoked the joint too.

What it feels like to die - By Dr PM Atwater.

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/experts05.html

All of the above, but most importantly, from God.

Many have communicated with these realms and tell essentially the same story as I'm relating above. Read about NDEs for example. Their testimonies are remarkably uniform,  dating back to millenia, and from diverse parts of the earth.

They're thousands of documented cases across the world. They tell essentially the same story.
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/research10.html

Michael Newton is the hypnotic regressionist that wrote Journey of Souls, an amazing book detailing the pre-birth revelations of his clients under hypnosis. Here he speaks of the various types of souls, and their journey home after physical death:

http://www.near-death.com/newton.html

Trini girl, you fail to realise a single point that should clear all this up.

You seem to see humanity as a set of souls habitually returning to earth and nowhere else in their evolutionary cycle, whereas in reality earth is simply a station - a stopover motel type place that plays host to incarnated spirits, some of whom decide to reincarnate on earth and some who just come once and no more.

A soul's reasons for visiting earth are largely subjective and personal - and one soul's journey cannot be deemed a failure because the earth was worse off then than during his previous lives. Same applies to all the other arriving souls, on a subjective level.

Each has come on a personal mission which may include physical suffering and exposure to injustice. The soul upon returning home and reconnecting with his true eternal self, would view his stay on earth as a 'success' even though earth itself is undergoing stress and getting 'worse'.

Also, we are not ALL reincarnated beings. And the lessons we come to learn on earth are every bit as subjective as they are collective further widening the vistas of physical manifestation of such trials and tribulations as await us on our brief earthly sojourn.

When the consciousness prevalent on earth changes for the better - after the human species as a collective, has learned the lessons of non-compliance with the divine order - characterised by the antithesis of hatred, selfishness, religious excusivity, greed, warfare etc etc. then souls seeking an earth like boot camp will have to incarnate elsewhere, with earth becoming home to spirits that just want to chill out in conditions of peace, equality and justice.

Earth is seen as a particularly difficult boot camp in the spirit world, and many spirits decline to venture anywhere near it. Those of us who agree to incarnate here are held in great esteem in those realms. We are seen as tough cookies. Many of the more easy-going spirits see us as gluttons for punishment, putting ourselves through unnecessary stress.

No one is forced to incarnate on earth. Souls incarnate on planets/worlds of their choosing, depending on what their motivation or desire is,

Some worlds are tranquil paradises filled with indescribable beauty and justice, where a soul can decide to go and chill for as long as they wish. Some worlds approach that degree of bliss, while some, like earth, are the very antithesis of such existences.

Spiritual development is experienced most strongly by suffering the absence of idyllic conditions and this is what earth does for spirits.

How would we appreciate justice unless we see the effects of injustice?

Or appreciate kindness unless we see and feel the effects of unkindness and greed?

That's why the earth is such a popular destination for spirits - it offers a lot of lessons.

Trini girl said:

Let me ask you a couple questions.

If we are all incarnations of a past life, would it not also be intrinsic to be perfected by now? Would we not have fixed our "mistakes" and "ignorance" by 2007?

As physical manifestations of an immortal soul of our choosing should not our spirit guides,  dedicated as they are to our 'evolutionary development', have counselled us to the point of perfect harmony and alignment into universal 'oneness'?

One would think we would have gotten it right any year Anno Domini!

If in my past life one million years ago I was a murderer(mistake), or a child molester(oops, sorry, another mistake), greedy(ignorance) or just pure evil(? ignorant mistake?  ), shouldn't my 'guides', who only have my best interest in mind, have counselled me into perfection by this re incarnated life cycle?

So please explain why the current state of affairs still exist? Why is there still crime, hatred, anger? What do I still struggle with thoughts of putting arsenic in my boss's coffee  ? Why are we not yet one with the loving universe?

If reincarnation is so natural why do we "worship God to make us feel better because we're imperfect human beings" ? STILL??

According to your belief, we should have naturally evolved into perfection by now. What's taking the universe so long?!

And please tell me how a spirit becomes 'highly evolved'? Does it move from  amoeba spirit to monkey spirit to  human spirit? I'm guessing it's not a human spirit at all is it.

Spiritual evolution refers to a period of learning for a God created soul that sees it develop spirituality out of individual experience.

In simple terms it can be likened to a process of soul education, just like we have human education on earth.

Earth lives are simply part of Soul education. The physical world is a simulation and is not 'real'. Time and space are physical illusions, There's really no such thing as past and present.

Human progress, at soul level, can appear as 'evil times' on a physical level to humans.

The period we're in now, characterised by a host of negatives, is, at spirit level, perceivable as an epoch of great learning and realisation.

The nuclear race for instance, and its attendant anxieties and destructive potential, can be seen as a great lesson for humanity, in its quest to achieve societies free of fear and exploitation.

Thus current events would be exactly what humanity requires to awaken her from her moral stupor.

Cure humanity of the selfishness and aggrandizement that have come to define existence on the planet.

At Spirit level, humanity has progressed because 5000 years ago, we had not yet experienced the ultimate effects of selfishness, such as we are today.

The chaos that will arise from the current state of affairs will lead to a moral re-appraisal by the human race, and that is what spiritual evoluton is about.

The minute you realise that physical death is simply a relinquishing of the body and that consciousness is not dependent on a human body to survive, you'll see that it's really just a spiritual game.

The physical world is an illusion created for soul development. Imagine an aerodeck simulation on say Star Trek-The Next Generation, where an entirely self contained environment can be created with the click of a button. That's the physical world.

It's not real.

Our true home - the world of true reality -  is in the world of spirits.

You've got to bring a bit more than cheap dramatics and asinine histrionics to the table.

Your blind dependence on a holy book of dubious value and even more dubious intent, is on no par with intelligent deductions made from a much wider base of knowledge and experience.

The exclusivist mentality of Christendom and Islam are artificial and run contrary to nature and the ways of antiquity, characterised by religious tolerance. They were imposed in order to control people. 'Salvation' became limited to only those that followed them.

The age old tradion of universal salvation was trampled upon, it's adherents hounded as 'heathens'.

From proud fearless people who believed in their innate immortality and celebrated death as a mere passage, we instead all became ''sinners'', destined for hellfire and eternal destruction if we failed to do as the church says, and worship it's phantom saviour.

That some people still fall for it is testament to the powerful nature of mass hypnotism.

Kindest Regards.

@ Jen 33
That fact that you do not believe in the existence of Jesus, doesn't stop those who believe in him from believing, everyone is got right to his or her own opinion, i believe in Jesus not just because i read about him in the bible but because i have a personal experience/relationship with him, therefore i know he did exist and he's still existing.

Oh I've no problem with that at all, just as I hope you've no problem with mine.

I take issue with the condescending tone of too many religionists for my liking. 

Mrpataki, I do acknowledge that prayer exists, certainly.

What I don't accept is that God answers every prayer as claimed by Jesus of the Bible.

Trini girl said:

Ok Jen,

You have shown us why you don't believe in the Bible. Please testify about the god you serve and how he/she/it has positively impacted your life and other around you.

Certainly not like the god you serve.

God in my view is not active in human affairs in ways religionists believe.

Humans are simply physical manifestations of immortal souls who've decided on their own accord to incarnate as 'humans' for a brief while on earth in order to learn and/or teach lessons vital to soul development.

A soul is developed to the extent that it is aligned to the logic of universal oneness - the concept that, as aspects of God, we are ALL a part of the whole.

Such a realisation is manifested by certain characteristic traits in humans, such as selflessness, humility, love for humanity (unconditional love), etc etc.

This is spirituality.

Spirituality is simply the awareness, and the manifestation of the awareness that ALL ARE ONE.

Evil, selfishness, greed etc etc are effects of a lack of knowledge of or appreciation for the intrinsic ONENESS of ALL that IS.

'Spirits' - WE, decide, in partnership with our personal guides - highly evolved spirits dedicated to our evolutionary development, to incarnate as 'human beings' for a few earth years in order to experience 'trials' and learn lessons that hasten our evolutionary development as souls.

It is reported that we are sworn to not 'remember' our previous lives on earth, as knowing the whole story about our immortal selves would ruin the idea of the earthly sojourn.

Reincarnation is among the oldest traditions of humanity and survives in one form or another in just about every religion.

Reincarnation, based on what I've seen and learnt, is a simple fact of existence.

We act out roles that have been largely mapped out by ourselves prior to our earthly life, with varying degrees built in for deviation.

We often decide to reincarnate in order to address certain karmic issues from the previous existence, seen in the heightened awareness of the after-life - where EVERYONE goes.

Thus a rich dictator who killed thousands would decide to atone for and learn from what he considers his failings, by deciding to be born a pauper in his next life.

At the level of Spirit, What we call sins are simply seen as mistakes. Acts of ignorance.

The less you've imbibed (often subconsciously)  the idea of universal oneness the more 'sinful' you are,

'Judgement Day' is not a parade of worthless sinners before God on a throne.

'Judgement Day' IS A SUBJECTIVE EXPERIENCE whereupon each soul upon returning home is at some point faced with spiritual elders who discuss with him his past life and what good things/mistakes he made etc all with a view to evolutionary development of the soul.

A soul could be made to feel the exact effects of their acts on others in a way that is said to make the soul deeply affected and emotional and cause them to want to make amends.

It's not a 'judgement thing'. The soul itself is his own worst critic.

In this dimension there is an atmosphere of universal love unimaginable to humans.

Those that have accessed these realms, including Near Death Experiencers (many of whom are practicing Christians), Western Psychics, Traditional African Medicine men, Shamans of all races, US Army trained Remote Viewers, Hypnotic regressionists, etc attest that a degree of order and LOVE exist in these realms unimaginable to humans.

God's presence in these realms is like the air we breathe on earth and is said to be indisputable.

Those that access these realms are reluctant to refer to him as God.

The term 'God' is so, human. It implies a sort of master-servant relationship that experiencers of these realms say is utterly absent and non-existent.

God does not issue commands, order deaths, get angry, get jealous, send a 'son' to be killed on earth, demand we 'worship' him, and all that. These are all human traits that could not possibly apply to the spiritual source of all existence.

It makes US feel better to worship God because of our fear and ignorance as imperfect humans.

But in reality God does not require our worship even though he has nothing against it. It's more for our needs as humans than his.

God is simply the Source of all life. The repository of all Consciousness.

Individually we are droplets, aspects of consciousness sent out by ''God'' to earth and other planets to experience creation individually and return to the Source enriched.

This is why the idea of an eternal burning hell is so ridiculous.

Souls that are 'evil' simply gravitate to where those of like mind inhabit in the world of spirits. The conditions there would reflect the mindset of its inhabitants.

Even while there, such souls are still visited by their guides, (whom the Igbo call 'Chi'), who periodically remind them of the better life in the 'realms of light' where the majority inhabit, and imploring them to change their mindsets accordingly.

You cannot hide your thoughts in that world. This is the realm of thought were communication is done by telepathy as a matter of routine.

In the spirit world things that would normally induce selfishness in all - such as poverty -  are absent. So the selfish there would be the ones who just choose to be that way. And there are never many of them. Most people are intrinsically good.

Most people go to a very happy place upon passing.

Religious beliefs as a human utterly irrelevant.

95% of Near Death Experiencers described conditions of indescribable bliss after they were certified dead  See www.near-death.com. for more on NDEs

All experiences are part of a cosmic plan that is perfect in every way.

Life on earth is but a blip in the life of a soul, and it is said that when we return to the spirit world, it feels like we only spent a few minutes as humans.

Time itself is very different on that plane of existence. A  year to us on earth could be barely minutes in the world of spirits.

Time itself is an illusion. In Ultimate Reality, there's no such thing as past and present. Every 'time period' can be accessed at will. There is just the eternal Now.

Our bodies are physical coats that we shed once we 'die'.

Our consciousness (ie our soul) is eternal. Consciousness is energy.

As any science student will tell you, Energy is indestructible. It can only be transformed into another state.

These are some of the truths of existence known to man since the start of the ages, and shielded from humanity by the CONTROL OBSESSED latter day major world religions of Christianity and Islam.

Shahan said:

Precisely. Have you noticed that jokers of this sort, besides their dishonesty, will claim to believe in a "God" that they are too embarrased to talk about? It's easier for such to devise theories about some non-existent parallel to the Christian faith, while at the same time they have no grounds under their feet.

As you noted, it's all literary excreta.

I'LL SHOW YOU LITERARY EXCRETA! 


The Jesus character was a myth and this is why we find this:

Jesus Lied About Prayer

Jesus is quoted many times in the Bible saying that a believer can ask for anything through prayer and receive it.  He even goes so far as to say that mountains and trees can be thrown into the sea simply by praying for it.  This is clearly a lie, and can be proven to be a lie by any believer.  Simply pray for me to be converted to Christianity right away.

Or better yet ask God to move the mountains behind my house.  He could make a lot of converts that way.  If I’m converted today, I’ll post a public apology and devote my life to kissing the Christian God’s ass.  If I’m not converted it would only be fair for you to apologize and devote your life to kissing my butt.


Here are the quotes from Jesus that proves that he lied:



    1)  And Jesus answered and said to them, "Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, `Be taken up and cast into the sea,' it will happen.  "And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive."  (Matthew 21:21-22 NAS)



    2)  Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.  For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.  (Matthew 7:7-8 NAB)



    3)  Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven.  For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.  (Matthew 18:19-20 NAS)



    4)  Amen, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it shall be done for him.  Therefore I tell you, all that you ask for in prayer, believe that you will receive it and it shall be yours.  (Mark 11:24-25 NAB)



    5)  And I tell you, ask and you will receive; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.  For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.  (Luke 11:9-13 NAB)



    6)  And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.  If you ask anything of me in my name, I will do it.  (John 14:13-14 NAB)



    7)  If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask for whatever you want and it will be done for you.  (John 15:7 NAB)



      It was not you who chose me, but I who chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit that will remain, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name he may give you.  (John 15:16 NAB)



    9)  On that day you will not question me about anything.  Amen, amen, I say to you, whatever you ask the Father in my name he will give you.  Until now you have not asked anything in my name; ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be complete.  (John 16:23-24 NAB)



A lot of Christians ignore what Jesus actually says in the Bible.  They also tend to add things to the actual words to make them say something else.  If you honestly and truthfully read these quotes, without adding to them, it is very easy to see that Jesus is not saying that God will think about your prayers.  He says God will grant all your prayers.  Clearly, God doesn’t grant all prayers and this proves that 'Jesus' was a liar.


According to the Bible the “End Times” Should Have ALREADY Occurred!

Jesus and his apostles made MANY prophecies concerning the Armageddon.  Christians would have you believe that it shall come as “a thief in the night”.  Yet, the Bible is rather clear concerning when it would happen.  Matter of fact, the Bible consistently said it would follow soon after Jesus’ death.  When you point out such verses to Christians they will try to weasel out of it by saying Christ was talking about his “future” apostles versus the ones he was directly speaking to. 

All it takes is a close examinations of the pronouns used in order to see that 'Christ' truly did believe the end times would have happened nearly 2,000 years ago.  Keep in mind that the Bible claims it is “fit for reproof’ and Christianity “lives and dies on the resurrection and end times”.  If we are to believe these verses and accept that the end time prophecies failed then surely the whole book is invalid.


False Prophecies About the Armageddon:

Jesus’ Predictions:

1) Jesus falsely prophesies DIRECTLY to the high priest (Caiphas) that he would live to see his second coming.  Jesus uses the term “coming on the clouds of heaven”.  This clearly negates the “coming” as the resurrection but as a return to the earth on CLOUDS, not his return in human form from the dead.  Matthew 26:64 & Mark 14:62.

"But I tell you: From now on you will see 'the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power' and 'coming on the clouds of heaven.'"  (Matthew 26:64 NAB)

Then Jesus answered, "I am; and 'you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power and coming with the clouds of heaven.'"  (Mark 14:62 NAB)

2) Jesus mistakenly tells his followers that he will return and establish his kingdom within their lifetime. Matthew 23:36 & 24:34

Amen, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.  (Matthew 23:36 NAB)

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.  And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.  And he will send out his angels with a trumpet blast, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.  "Learn a lesson from the fig tree. When its branch becomes tender and sprouts leaves, you know that summer is near.  In the same way, when you see all these things, know that he is near, at the gates.  Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place.  Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.  (Matthew 24:29-35 NAB)

3) YET AGAIN, Jesus claims those standing RIGHT BEFORE HIM shall see the Armageddon.  Matthew 16:28 “There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”  Don’t let Christians lie to you and claim Jesus was referring to his modern day believers.  The words “some standing HERE will not taste death” clearly refutes such nonsense.  Obviously the people he was speaking to died, and curiously Jesus STILL isn’t here to claim his kingdom.

4) Jesus falsely prophesies that the end of the world will come within his listeners’ lifetimes. 

Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.  (Mark 13:30-31 NAB)

He also said to them, "Amen, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see that the kingdom of God has come in power."  (Mark 9:1 NAB)

5) Jesus falsely predicts that some of his listeners would live to see him return and establish the kingdom of God.

"Truly I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:27 NAB)

6) Jesus implies that he will return to earth during the lifetime of John. (John 21:22)

7) Jesus says that all that he describes (his return, signs in the sun, moon, wars, stars, etc.) will occur within the lifetime of his listeners.  He purposely defines their generation and NOT a future one.  Considering that NONE of those signs took place during the resurrection and that he uses the term of “Heaven and earth shall pass away”, Clearly Jesus is prophesizing that nearly 2,000 years ago Armageddon SHOULD have occurred.  Luke 21:25-33

"There will be signs in the sun, the moon, and the stars, and on earth nations will be in dismay, perplexed by the roaring of the sea and the waves.  People will die of fright in anticipation of what is coming upon the world, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.  And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.  But when these signs begin to happen, stand erect and raise your heads because your redemption is at hand." 

He taught them a lesson. "Consider the fig tree and all the other trees.  When their buds burst open, you see for yourselves and know that summer is now near; in the same way, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near.  Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place.  Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.  (Luke 21:25-33 NAB)

[Editor's note:  Matthew 10:23 also has Jesus telling his disciples that the second coming will occur before the disciples finish preaching in Israel:  "When they persecute you in one town, flee to another. Amen, I say to you, you will not finish the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes."  (Matthew 10:23 NAB)] 



John’s Predictions

John believes “the time is at hand,” and that the things that he writes about in Revelation will “shortly come to pass.”  Revelations 1:1-3

9) John quotes Jesus (1900 years ago) as saying he will come “quickly.” Revelations 22:7, 12 & 20

10) John thinks he is living in “the last times.”  He “knows” this because he sees so many antichrists around.  1 John 2:18

11) John says that the antichrist was already present at the time 1 John was written.  1 John 4:3

12) John quotes Jesus (1900 years ago) as saying he will come “quickly.”  Revelations 3:11, 22:7, 12 & 20



Paul’s Predictions

13) Paul thought that the end was near and that Jesus would return soon after he wrote these words.  Philippians 4:5

14) Paul believes he is living in the “last days.”  Hebrews 1:2

15) Paul believed that Jesus would come “in a little while, and will not tarry.” Hebrews 10:37

16) In 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 Paul stated: “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: And the dead Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: And so shall we ever be with the Lord.”  Paul shared the delusion, taught by Jesus, in that he expected to be snatched up bodily into heaven with other saints then living, who would, thus, never taste death. The use of “we” clearly proves as much.  It is difficult to deny that Paul was certain that the end of the world was coming in the lifetime of his contemporaries.



Other Prophecies About Armageddon:

17) James thought that Jesus would return soon.  James 5:8

18) Peter wrongly believed that he was living in the “last times” and that “the end of all things is at hand.”  1 Peter 1:20 & 4:7

Black Madonnas and their descent from ISIS Meri mother of Horus.

http://saxakali.com/suzar/madonna.htm

Why dwell so much on the past when Jesus has given us a greater promise of the future?

Cos the Bible claims its God is consistent and unchanging.

Obviously another spurious claim.

Why didn't he just forgive the errants and send in preachers or something - like he did for his ''chosen'' people - the Israelis - rather than killing even their babies and ordering their women raped etc?

An all-to-familiar combination of lunacy and favoritism that pervades the actions of the Bible God in his dealings with humans. 

Even the Bible can't seem to decide on his status in this regard:

"God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?" -- Numbers 23:19 (KJV)

Interpreted literally, we can state that "God can not change his mind." 

"And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people." -- Exodus 32:14 (KJV)


So what goes? Both sentences cannot be true!

One would expect that a perfect Christian God would be able to put down in clear cut terms, a cast-iron statement on this particularly central question without the need for us to be debating it here.

Apparently he'd rather confuse us with contradictory statements.

Why?

And then when our imperfect minds throw up some interpretation of the mess that somehow doesn't jell with 'the truth', WE end up being the bad guys requiring Jesus' rescue to escape God's wrath! 

Yeah, It really does get weirder the more you look at it. 

The same way your Church fathers and their missionaries mocked and insulted our ancient religions before brainwashing our people with their fairytales.

The ''missionaries'' minced no words in dismissing non-Christian beliefs as 'heathen' - just like contemporary Christians.

You are in no position to complain.

Christianity murdered THOUSANDS of people back in the day, to keep their falsifications quiet.

What do you think the Inquisition was about?

Looking at the catalogue of atrocities listed above, and committed by a supposedly loving God, it will amount to the most remarkable suspension of common sense to regard such a
hideous creature with anything other than opprobrium and horror.

Why on earth you'd wish to worship a bloodthirsty monster that orders rape and masacres, ONLY GOD KNOWS. 

The only proof of the authenticity of all this is that some white man landed our shores a few hundred years back and handed us some books he CLAIMED where 'of God'.

Chei. Black man don suffer.

He then brainwashed us by condenming our 'blood thirsty' gods while introducing via the backdoor, in abstract, obscure bible pages, an even more bloodthirsty mega monster.

The brainwashing was so thorough that even when presented with the atrocities ordered by this new ''God'', as I've done above, we blissfully ignore them, rationalisiing them with a host of silly, UNCLE TOMIC EXCUSES FOR cosmic BARBARITY.

Rubbish.

The Bible is a barefaced lie by claiming to be 'Of God'.

And the verses I posted above there prove that 1000000%

This article sums up the main points disproving the Bible as the word of God:

After reading this, you'll come to realise that Yahweh, FAR FROM BEING GOD, was just another of the thousands of angry tribal gods that dotted the landscapes of antiquity. He was simply a  Jewish tribal god similar to say Ogun or Amadioha, ancient Nigerian gods.

Happy reading.


''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

For far too long priests and preachers have completely ignored the vicious criminal acts that the Bible promotes.  The so called “God” of the Bible makes Osama Bin Laden look like a Boy Scout.  This God, according to the Bible, is directly responsible for many mass-murders, rapes, pillage, plunder, slavery, child abuse and killing, not to mention the killing of unborn children.  I have included references to the Biblical passages, so grab your Bible and follow along.   


It always amazes me how many times this God orders the killing of innocent people even after the Ten Commandments said “Thou shall not kill”.  For example, God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people (1 Chronicles 21).  God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there.  He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value (Deuteronomy 3).  He orders another attack and the killing of “all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses” (Joshua 6).  In Judges 21, He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead, except for the virgin girls who were taken to be forcibly raped and married. 

When they wanted more virgins, God told them to hide alongside the road and when they saw a girl they liked, kidnap her and forcibly rape her and make her your wife!  Just about every other page in the Old Testament has God killing somebody!  In 2 Kings 10:18-27, God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church!  In total God kills 371,186 people directly and orders another 1,862,265 people murdered.


The God of the Bible also allows slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:1-11), child abuse (Judges 11:29-40 and Isaiah 13:16), and bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9). 

This type of criminal behavior should shock any moral person.  Murder, rape, pillage, plunder, slavery, and child abuse can not be justified by saying that some god says it’s OK. 

'Jesus' also promoted the idea that all men should castrate themselves to go to heaven:  "For there are eunuchs, that were so born from their mother's womb: and there are eunuchs, that were made eunuchs by men: and there are eunuchs, that made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it."  (Matthew 19:12 ASV)  I don't know why anyone would follow the teachings of someone who literally tells all men to cut off their privates.

The God of the Bible also was a big fan of ritual human sacrifice and animal sacrifice.

And just in case you are thinking that the evil and immoral laws of the Old Testament are no longer in effect, perhaps you should read where Jesus makes it perfectly clear:   "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)  There are many more quotes on this topic at my "Do Not Ignore the Old Testament" web page.

I know that most Christians believe that God is a good and loving god, and wants people to do good things.  I believe that most people want to do good things and behave morally.  I also believe that many Christians haven’t really read the Bible, or just read certain passages in church.  This is understandable, as the Bible is hard to read due to its archaic language and obscure references.  Also many priests and preachers don’t like to read certain passages in the Bible because they present a message of hate not love.


Rape In The Bible

Rape is one of the most heinous crimes imaginable.  Yet few people know that the Bible often condones and even approves of rape.  How anyone can get their moral guidance from a book that allows rape escapes me.  Perhaps they have been lied to about the Bible and carefully detoured around all the nasty stuff in the Bible.

So grab your Bibles and follow along as I show you all the nasty rapes that your priests and preachers don't want to tell you about.  Note that in many places in the Bible there are references to "taking a wife".  Don't be fooled into thinking that these were voluntary marriages.  This first quote clearly shows that murder and force were used to "take" these wives. 



1) Murder, rape, and pillage at Jabesh-gilead  (Judges 21:10-24 NLT)


So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children.  "This is what you are to do," they said. "Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin."  Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan.

The Israelite assembly sent a peace delegation to the little remnant of Benjamin who were living at the rock of Rimmon. Then the men of Benjamin returned to their homes, and the four hundred women of Jabesh-gilead who were spared were given to them as wives.  But there were not enough women for all of them.  The people felt sorry for Benjamin because the LORD had left this gap in the tribes of Israel.  So the Israelite leaders asked, "How can we find wives for the few who remain, since all the women of the tribe of Benjamin are dead?  There must be heirs for the survivors so that an entire tribe of Israel will not be lost forever.  But we cannot give them our own daughters in marriage because we have sworn with a solemn oath that anyone who does this will fall under God's curse."

Then they thought of the annual festival of the LORD held in Shiloh, between Lebonah and Bethel, along the east side of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem.  They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives, "Go and hide in the vineyards.  When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife!  And when their fathers and brothers come to us in protest, we will tell them, 'Please be understanding.  Let them have your daughters, for we didn't find enough wives for them when we destroyed Jabesh-gilead. And you are not guilty of breaking the vow since you did not give your daughters in marriage to them.'"  So the men of Benjamin did as they were told.  They kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own inheritance.  Then they rebuilt their towns and lived in them.  So the assembly of Israel departed by tribes and families, and they returned to their own homes.

Obviously these women were repeatedly raped.  These sick bastards killed and raped an entire town and then wanted more virgins, so they hid beside the road to kidnap and rape some more.  How can anyone see this as anything but evil?

2) Murder, rape and pillage of the Midianites    (Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)

They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men.  All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle.  They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword.  Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder.  They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived.  After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.

Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp.  But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle.  "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded.  "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor.  They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people.  Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man.  Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

Clearly Moses and God approves of rape of virgins.

3) More Murder Rape and Pillage   (Deuteronomy 20:10-14)

As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace.  If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor.  But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town.  When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town.  But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder.  You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.

What kind of God approves of murder, rape, and slavery?

4) Laws of Rape   (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father.  Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

What kind of lunatic would make a rape victim marry her attacker?  Answer: God.


5) Death to the Rape Victim   (Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)

  If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.

It is clear that God doesn't give a damn about the rape victim.  He is only concerned about the violation of another mans "property".


6) David's Punishment - Polygamy, Rape, Baby Killing, and God's "Forgiveness" (2 Samuel 12:11-14 NAB)

Thus says the Lord: 'I will bring evil upon you out of your own house.  I will take your wives [plural] while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor.  He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight.  You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.'

Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the Lord."  Nathan answered David: "The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die.  But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, the child born to you must surely die."  [The child dies seven days later.]

This has got to be one of the sickest quotes of the Bible.  God himself brings the completely innocent rape victims to the rapist.  What kind of pathetic loser would do something so evil?  And then he kills a child!  This is sick, really sick!


7)  Rape of Female Captives   (Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)


"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house.  But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive's garb.  After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife.  However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion."


    Once again God approves of forcible rape.



  Rape and the Spoils of War (Judges 5:30 NAB)


They must be dividing the spoils they took: there must be a damsel or two for each man, Spoils of dyed cloth as Sisera's spoil, an ornate shawl or two for me in the spoil.   (Judges 5:30 NAB)


9) Sex Slaves (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)


When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are.  If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again.  But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her.  And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter.  If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife.  If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.   (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)


10) God Assists Rape and Plunder (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)

Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst.  And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city.   (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)

Slavery in the Bible

Except for murder, slavery has got to be one of the most immoral things a person can do.  Yet slavery is rampant throughout the Bible in both the Old and New Testaments.  The Bible clearly approves of slavery in many passages, and it goes so far as to tell how to obtain slaves, how hard you can beat them, and when you can have sex with the female slaves.

Many Jews and Christians will try to ignore the moral problems of slavery by saying that these slaves were actually servants or indentured servants.  Many translations of the Bible use the word "servant", "bondservant", or "manservant" instead of "slave" to make the Bible seem less immoral than it really is.  While many slaves may have worked as household servants, that doesn't mean that they were not slaves who were bought, sold, and treated worse than livestock.


The following passage shows that slaves are clearly property to be bought and sold like livestock.


''However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you.  You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land.  You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance.  You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.''  (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)


The following passage describes how the Hebrew slaves are to be treated.


''If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years.  Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom.  If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year.  But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him.  If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master.  But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children.  I would rather not go free.'  If he does this, his master must present him before God.  Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl.  After that, the slave will belong to his master forever''.  (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)


Notice how they can get a male Hebrew slave to become a permanent slave by keeping his wife and children hostage until he says he wants to become a permanent slave.  What kind of family values are these?


The following passage describes the sickening practice of sex slavery.  How can anyone think it is moral to sell your own daughter as a sex slave?


''When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are.  If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again.  But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her.  And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter.  If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife.  If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment''.  (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)



    So these are the Bible family values!  A man can buy as many sex slaves as he wants as long as he feeds them, clothes them, and screws them!



    What does the Bible say about beating slaves?  It says you can beat both male and female slaves with a rod so hard that as long as they don't die right away you are cleared of any wrong doing.



 ''When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished.  If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property''.  (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)



    You would think that Jesus and the New Testament would have a different view of slavery, but slavery is still approved of in the New Testament, as the following passages show.



 ''Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear.  Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ''.  (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)



    Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed.  If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful.  You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts.  Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them.  (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)



    In the following parable, Jesus clearly approves of beating slaves even if they didn't know they were doing anything wrong.



    The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it.  "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly.  Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given."  (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)

1) Capital Punishment Crimes:



Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests

 ''Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death.  Such evil must be purged from Israel.''  (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)



Kill Witches

    ''You should not let a sorceress live''.  (Exodus 22:17 NAB)



Kill Homosexuals
    "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."  (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)



Kill Fortunetellers

    ''A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death''.  (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)



Death for Hitting Dad

    ''Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death''.  (Exodus 21:15 NAB)



Death for Cursing Parents

    1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness.  (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

    2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death.  They are guilty of a capital offense.  (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)



Death for Adultery

    If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death.  (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)



Death for Fornication

    A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death.  (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)



Death to Followers of Other Religions

    ''Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed''.  (Exodus 22:19 NAB)



Kill Nonbelievers
    ''They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.''  (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)



Kill False Prophets

''If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord."  When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through.''  (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)



Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

    Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods.  In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully.  If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.  Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it.  Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God.  That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt.  Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction.  Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you.  He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors.  "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him."  (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)



Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night

    But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house.  Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst.  (Deuteronomy  22:20-21 NAB)



Kill Followers of Other Religions.

    1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him.  Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you.  You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery.  And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst.  (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)



    2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden.  When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death.  (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)



Death for Blasphemy

    One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men.  During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name.  So the man was brought to Moses for judgment.  His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan.  They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear.  Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head.  Then let the entire community stone him to death.  Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished.  Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel.  Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die.  (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)



Kill False Prophets

    1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles,  and the predicted signs or miracles take place.  If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them.  The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul.  Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone.  Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him.  The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt.  Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you.  (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)



    2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.'  You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?'  If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message.  That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared.  (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)



Infidels and Gays Should Die

    So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired.  As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies.  Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies.  So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever.  Amen.  That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires.  Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other.  And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other.  Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved.  When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done.  Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip.  They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful.  They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents.  They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving.  They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway.  And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too.  (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)



Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle

    For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites.  You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment.  They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it.  Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again.  Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.'  (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)



Kill People for Working on the Sabbath

    The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever.  It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy.  Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy.  Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community.  Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest.  I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.'  (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)




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2) God's Murders for Stupid Reasons:



Kill Brats

    From there Elisha went up to Bethel.  While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him.  "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!"  The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord.  Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces.  (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)



God Kills the Curious

    And he smote of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of Jehovah, he smote of the people seventy men, `and' fifty thousand men; and the people mourned, because Jehovah had smitten the people with a great slaughter.  And the men of Beth-shemesh said, Who is able to stand before Jehovah, this holy God? and to whom shall he go up from us?   (1Samuel 6:19-20 ASV)



Killed by a Lion

    Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, "Strike me!"  But the man refused to strike the prophet.  Then the prophet told him, "Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me."  And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him.  (1 Kings 20:35-36 NLT)



Killing the Good Samaritan

    The ark of God was placed on a new cart and taken away from the house of Abinadab on the hill.  Uzzah and Ahio, sons of Abinadab guided the cart, with Ahio walking before it, while David and all the Israelites made merry before the Lord with all their strength, with singing and with citharas, harps, tambourines, sistrums, and cymbals.

    When they came to the threshing floor of Nodan, Uzzah reached out his hand to the ark of God to steady it, for the oxen were making it tip.  But the Lord was angry with Uzzah; God struck him on that spot, and he died there before God.  (2 Samuel 6:3-7 NAB)




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3) Murdering Children



Kill Sons of Sinners

    Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants.  (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)



God Will Kill Children

    The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived.  Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you.  It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone.  I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre.  But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered."  O LORD, what should I request for your people?  I will ask for wombs that don't give birth and breasts that give no milk.  The LORD says, "All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them.  I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions.  I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels.  The people of Israel are stricken.  Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit.  And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children."  (Hosea 9:11-16 NLT)



Kill Men, Women, and Children

    "Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked.  Show no mercy; have no pity!  Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children.  But do not touch anyone with the mark.  Begin your task right here at the Temple."  So they began by killing the seventy leaders.  "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded.  "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill!  Go!"  So they went throughout the city and did as they were told."  (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)



God Kills all the First Born of Egypt

    And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed.  Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died.  (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT)



Kill Old Men and Young Women

    "You are my battle-ax and sword," says the LORD.  "With you I will shatter nations and destroy many kingdoms.  With you I will shatter armies, destroying the horse and rider, the chariot and charioteer.  With you I will shatter men and women, old people and children, young men and maidens.  With you I will shatter shepherds and flocks, farmers and oxen, captains and rulers.  "As you watch, I will repay Babylon and the people of Babylonia for all the wrong they have done to my people in Jerusalem," says the LORD.  "Look, O mighty mountain, destroyer of the earth!  I am your enemy," says the LORD.  "I will raise my fist against you, to roll you down from the heights.  When I am finished, you will be nothing but a heap of rubble.  You will be desolate forever.  Even your stones will never again be used for building.  You will be completely wiped out," says the LORD.  (Jeremiah 51:20-26)

     (Note that after God promises the Israelites a victory against Babylon, the Israelites actually get their butts kicked by them in the next chapter.  So much for an all-knowing and all-powerful God.)



God Will Kill the Children of Sinners

    If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins.  I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted.  (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT)



More Rape and Baby Killing

    Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword.  Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes.  Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes.  For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off.  The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows.  They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children.  (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



4) Miscellaneous Murders



More of Samson's Murders

    (The Lord saves Sampson from standing trial for 30 murders and arson by allowing him to kill 1000 more men.)  When he reached Lehi, and the Philistines came shouting to meet him, the spirit of the Lord came upon him: the ropes around his arms become as flax that is consumed by fire and the bonds melted away from his hands.  Near him was the fresh jawbone of an ass; he reached out, grasped it, and with it killed a thousand men.  (Judges 15:14-15 NAB)



Peter Kills Two People

    There was also a man named Ananias who, with his wife, Sapphira, sold some property.  He brought part of the money to the apostles, but he claimed it was the full amount.  His wife had agreed to this deception.  Then Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart?  You lied to the Holy Spirit, and you kept some of the money for yourself.  The property was yours to sell or not sell, as you wished.  And after selling it, the money was yours to give away.  How could you do a thing like this?  You weren't lying to us but to God."  As soon as Ananias heard these words, he fell to the floor and died.  Everyone who heard about it was terrified.  Then some young men wrapped him in a sheet and took him out and buried him.  About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened.  Peter asked her, "Was this the price you and your husband received for your land?"  "Yes," she replied, "that was the price."  And Peter said, "How could the two of you even think of doing a thing like this – conspiring together to test the Spirit of the Lord?  Just outside that door are the young men who buried your husband, and they will carry you out, too."  Instantly, she fell to the floor and died.  When the young men came in and saw that she was dead, they carried her out and buried her beside her husband.  Great fear gripped the entire church and all others who heard what had happened.   (Acts 5:1-11 NLT)



Mass Murder

    This is what the Lord of  hosts has to say: 'I will punish what Amalek did to Israel when he barred his way as he was coming up from Egypt.  Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban.  Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses.'   (1 Samuel 15:2-3 NAB)



You Have to Kill

    Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood.  (Jeremiah 48:10 NAB)



The Danites Kill the Next Town

    But the territory of the Danites was too small for them; so the Danites marched up and attacked Leshem, which they captured and put to the sword.  Once they had taken possession of Lesham, they renamed the settlement after their ancestor Dan.  (Joshua 19:47 NAB)



God Kills Some More

    Then the LORD said to me, "Even if Moses and Samuel stood before me pleading for these people, I wouldn't help them.  Away with them!  Get them out of my sight!  And if they say to you, 'But where can we go?' tell them, 'This is what the LORD says: Those who are destined for death, to death; those who are destined for war, to war; those who are destined for famine, to famine; those who are destined for captivity, to captivity.'  "I will send four kinds of destroyers against them," says the LORD.  "I will send the sword to kill, the dogs to drag away, the vultures to devour, and the wild animals to finish up what is left.  Because of the wicked things Manasseh son of Hezekiah, king of Judah, did in Jerusalem, I will make my people an object of horror to all the kingdoms of the earth."  (Jeremiah 15:1-4 NLT)



God Promises More Killing 

    I will make Mount Seir utterly desolate, killing off all who try to escape and any who return.  I will fill your mountains with the dead. Your hills, your valleys, and your streams will be filled with people slaughtered by the sword.  I will make you desolate forever. Your cities will never be rebuilt. Then you will know that I am the LORD.  (Ezekiel 35:7-9 NLT)



The Angel of Death

    My angel will go before you and bring you to the Amorites, Hittites, Perizzites, Canaanites, Hivites, and Jebusites; and I will wipe them out.  (Exodus 23:23 NAB)



Destruction of Ai

    Then the LORD said to Joshua, "Do not be afraid or discouraged.  Take the entire army and attack Ai, for I have given to you the king of Ai, his people, his city, and his land.  You will destroy them as you destroyed Jericho and its king. But this time you may keep the captured goods and the cattle for yourselves. Set an ambush behind the city."  So Joshua and the army of Israel set out to attack Ai.  Joshua chose thirty thousand fighting men and sent them out at night with these orders: "Hide in ambush close behind the city and be ready for action.  When our main army attacks, the men of Ai will come out to fight as they did before, and we will run away from them.  We will let them chase us until they have all left the city. For they will say, 'The Israelites are running away from us as they did before.'  Then you will jump up from your ambush and take possession of the city, for the LORD your God will give it to you.  Set the city on fire, as the LORD has commanded.  You have your orders."  So they left that night and lay in ambush between Bethel and the west side of Ai.  But Joshua remained among the people in the camp that night. 

    Early the next morning Joshua roused his men and started toward Ai, accompanied by the leaders of Israel.  They camped on the north side of Ai, with a valley between them and the city.  That night Joshua sent five thousand men to lie in ambush between Bethel and Ai, on the west side of the city.  So they stationed the main army north of the city and the ambush west of the city.  Joshua himself spent that night in the valley.  When the king of Ai saw the Israelites across the valley, he and all his army hurriedly went out early the next morning and attacked the Israelites at a place overlooking the Jordan Valley.  But he didn't realize there was an ambush behind the city.  Joshua and the Israelite army fled toward the wilderness as though they were badly beaten,  and all the men in the city were called out to chase after them.  In this way, they were lured away from the city.  There was not a man left in Ai or Bethel who did not chase after the Israelites, and the city was left wide open. 

    Then the LORD said to Joshua, "Point your spear toward Ai, for I will give you the city."  Joshua did as he was commanded.  As soon as Joshua gave the signal, the men in ambush jumped up and poured into the city.  They quickly captured it and set it on fire.  When the men of Ai looked behind them, smoke from the city was filling the sky, and they had nowhere to go. For the Israelites who had fled in the direction of the wilderness now turned on their pursuers.  When Joshua and the other Israelites saw that the ambush had succeeded and that smoke was rising from the city, they turned and attacked the men of Ai.  Then the Israelites who were inside the city came out and started killing the enemy from the rear. So the men of Ai were caught in a trap, and all of them died. Not a single person survived or escaped.  Only the king of Ai was taken alive and brought to Joshua.

    When the Israelite army finished killing all the men outside the city, they went back and finished off everyone inside.  So the entire population of Ai was wiped out that day – twelve thousand in all.  For Joshua kept holding out his spear until everyone who had lived in Ai was completely destroyed.  Only the cattle and the treasures of the city were not destroyed, for the Israelites kept these for themselves, as the LORD had commanded Joshua.  So Ai became a permanent mound of ruins, desolate to this very day.  Joshua hung the king of Ai on a tree and left him there until evening. At sunset the Israelites took down the body and threw it in front of the city gate.  They piled a great heap of stones over him that can still be seen today.  (Joshua 8:1-29 NLT)



Killing at Jericho

    When the people heard the sound of the horns, they shouted as loud as they could. Suddenly, the walls of Jericho collapsed, and the Israelites charged straight into the city from every side and captured it.  They completely destroyed everything in it – men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep, donkeys – everything.  (Joshua 6:20-21 NLT)



God Kills an Extended Family

    "You have done more evil than all who lived before you.  You have made other gods and have made me furious with your gold calves.  And since you have turned your back on me, I will bring disaster on your dynasty and kill all your sons, slave or free alike.  I will burn up your royal dynasty as one burns up trash until it is all gone.  I, the LORD, vow that the members of your family who die in the city will be eaten by dogs, and those who die in the field will be eaten by vultures.'"  Then Ahijah said to Jeroboam's wife, "Go on home, and when you enter the city, the child will die.  All Israel will mourn for him and bury him.  He is the only member of your family who will have a proper burial, for this child is the only good thing that the LORD, the God of Israel, sees in the entire family of Jeroboam.  And the LORD will raise up a king over Israel who will destroy the family of Jeroboam.  This will happen today, even now!  Then the LORD will shake Israel like a reed whipped about in a stream.  He will uproot the people of Israel from this good land that he gave their ancestors and will scatter them beyond the Euphrates River, for they have angered the LORD by worshiping Asherah poles.  He will abandon Israel because Jeroboam sinned and made all of Israel sin along with him."  (1 Kings 14:9-16 NLT)



Mass Murder

    The men of Israel withdrew through the territory of the Benjaminites, putting to the sword the inhabitants of the city, the livestock, and all they chanced upon.  Moreover they destroyed by fire all the cities they came upon.  (Judges 20:48 NAB)



The Angel of Death

    That night the angel of the Lord went forth and struck down one hundred and eighty five thousand men in the Assyrian camp.  Early the next morning, there they were, all the corpuses of the dead.  (2 Kings 19:35 NAB)



Kill Your Neighbors

    (Moses) stood at the entrance to the camp and shouted, "All of you who are on the LORD's side, come over here and join me." And all the Levites came.  He told them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: Strap on your swords! Go back and forth from one end of the camp to the other, killing even your brothers, friends, and neighbors."  The Levites obeyed Moses, and about three thousand people died that day.  Then Moses told the Levites, "Today you have been ordained for the service of the LORD, for you obeyed him even though it meant killing your own sons and brothers. Because of this, he will now give you a great blessing."  (Exodus 32:26-29 NLT)



Kill the Family of Sinners

    And Joshua said to Achan, My son, give, I pray thee, glory to the LORD God of Israel, and make confession to him; and tell me now what thou hast done, hide it not from me.  And Achan answered Joshua, and said, Indeed I have sinned against the LORD God of Israel, and thus and thus have I done.  When I saw among the spoils a goodly Babylonish garment, and two hundred shekels of silver, and a wedge of gold of fifty shekels weight, then I coveted them, and took them, and behold, they are hid in the earth in the midst of my tent, and the silver under it."  [Note that the sin is not looting, but failing to give the loot to the treasury of the Lord.]  "So Joshua sent messengers, and they ran to the tent, and behold, it was hid in his tent, and the silver under it.  And they took them from the midst of the tent, and brought them to Joshua, and to all the children of Israel, and laid them out before the LORD.  And Joshua, and all Israel with him, took Achan the son of Zerah, and the silver, and the garment, and the wedge of gold, and his sons, and his daughters, and his oxen, and his asses, and his sheep, and his tent, and all that he had: and they brought them to the valley of Achor.  And Joshua said, why hast thou troubled us?  the LORD shall trouble thee this day.  And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones.  And they raised over him a great heap of stones to this day.  So the LORD turned from the fierceness of his anger: wherefore the name of that place was called the valley of Achor to this day.  (Joshua 7:19-26 Webster's Bible)



Kill Followers of Other Religions

    While the Israelites were camped at Acacia, some of the men defiled themselves by sleeping with the local Moabite women.  These women invited them to attend sacrifices to their gods, and soon the Israelites were feasting with them and worshiping the gods of Moab.  Before long Israel was joining in the worship of Baal of Peor, causing the LORD's anger to blaze against his people.  The LORD issued the following command to Moses: "Seize all the ringleaders and execute them before the LORD in broad daylight, so his fierce anger will turn away from the people of Israel."  So Moses ordered Israel's judges to execute everyone who had joined in worshiping Baal of Peor.  Just then one of the Israelite men brought a Midianite woman into the camp, right before the eyes of Moses and all the people, as they were weeping at the entrance of the Tabernacle.  When Phinehas son of Eleazar and grandson of Aaron the priest saw this, he jumped up and left the assembly.  Then he took a spear and rushed after the man into his tent. Phinehas thrust the spear all the way through the man's body and into the woman's stomach.  So the plague against the Israelites was stopped, but not before 24,000 people had died.  (Numbers 25:1-9 NLT)



Murder

    At the customary time for offering the evening sacrifice, Elijah the prophet walked up to the altar and prayed, "O LORD, God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, prove today that you are God in Israel and that I am your servant. Prove that I have done all this at your command.  O LORD, answer me! Answer me so these people will know that you, O LORD, are God and that you have brought them back to yourself."  Immediately the fire of the LORD flashed down from heaven and burned up the young bull, the wood, the stones, and the dust.  It even licked up all the water in the ditch!  And when the people saw it, they fell on their faces and cried out, "The LORD is God!  The LORD is God!"  Then Elijah commanded, "Seize all the prophets of Baal.  Don't let a single one escape!"  So the people seized them all, and Elijah took them down to the Kishon Valley and killed them there.  (1 Kings 18:36-40 NLT)



Kill All of Babylon

    "Go up, my warriors, against the land of Merathaim and against the people of Pekod. Yes, march against Babylon, the land of rebels, a land that I will judge!  Pursue, kill, and completely destroy them, as I have commanded you," says the LORD.  "Let the battle cry be heard in the land, a shout of great destruction".   (Jeremiah 50:21-22 NLT)



Micah Kills a Whole Town 

    Then, with Micah's idols and his priest, the men of Dan came to the town of Laish, whose people were peaceful and secure.  They attacked and killed all the people and burned the town to the ground.  There was no one to rescue the residents of the town, for they lived a great distance from Sidon and had no allies nearby.  This happened in the valley near Beth-rehob.Then the people of the tribe of Dan rebuilt the town and lived there.  They renamed the town Dan after their ancestor, Israel's son, but it had originally been called Laish.  (Judges 18:27-29 NLT)  (Note that God approves of this slaughter in verse 6.)

Lafile, have you heard of the Pyramid Texts?

Like I said, don't expect me to do your research for you. HERE: Go do it yourself! You've been shown the door. Now open it!

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/horus.htm

Read the stuff through, don't come asking me the same question in an hour. The texts exist in abundance proving these connections, and we're not talking 'oral tradition'!

Archaeological evidence is also part of the equation - not everything is text based - thus statues of Isis-Meri cradling her god-son Horus which have been dated to thousands of years BC are a form of evidence linking that religion with latter traditions.


Isis Meri cradling Horus, Egyptian Son of God, circa 3000 BC (note sun-disk on head)

https://members.aol.com/jandjchen3/5078.jpg

[img]http://carlos.emory.edu/COLLECTION/EGYPT/IMAGES-EGYPT/egypt11L.jpg[/img]


Mary Cradles Jesus, Oyibo Son of God, circa 1BC (note sun halo around head)

https://www.gurney.co.uk/timo/clipart/general/mary02.gif

Trini girl said:

SPIRITUAL : of or relating to supernatural beings or phenomena

DISCERNMENT: a power to see what is not evident to the average mind

The spirit of God shows man truth when man is ready to receive it.

It is the arrogance and Ignorance of people like you that accounts for such infantile condenscension among Christian folk, that deludes them in just about all aspects of existence.

You - utterly without foundation - equate belief in the Christian god with belief IN God, STUPIDLY ASSUMING that they necessarily MUST mean one and the same thing.

Let me tell you something, most reasonably exposed and thoughtful people realise that the ''God'' of the Bible IS NOT God.

I actually believe in God, contrary to what you wrote.

But I do not believe the Bible is an account of God's actions or inactions with regard to humans on earth, now or in the past.

And I'll show you why in my next post. 

Call me your daddy n I'll leave ya.

Should I interprete that as a capitulation in the face of superior evidence? 

Aight. Call me your daddy n I'll leave ya.

How do I know that what predates Christ? Horus? Even a school child knows that Horus of Egypt PREDATES CHRIST BY THOUSANDS OF YEARS.

Don't you know anything about Ancient Egypt? Didn't you do history at school?

What's a supposedly schooled fella like you doing asking for proof that Horus is an older deity than Jesus?

Or perhaps you're playing dumb. Pretending you can't see the pretty solid evidence presented above by researchers (and so far largely unrefuted) for asserting the huge debt owed pagan customs and myth by Christianity.

Why lie to yourself? 



St, John’s Gospel begins,
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The Egyptian Book of the Coming Forth by Day (commonly known as the Book of the Dead), the oldest written text in the world, contains a strikingly parallel passage,
I am the Eternal, I am Ra ,  I am that which created the Word ,  I am the Word. 

http://www.egypt-tehuti.org/articles/egypt-bible-similarities.html

The saddest thing here is that one posts stuff like this on other (non black - it has to be said) forums, and one is never abused and dissed like this but rather engaged in debate by those who hold even wildly opposing views.

But for our dear Naija/Africo/Carib converts their own idea of a ''response'' is to term you a personification of the devil without further discussion.

It's really funny when you think about it.

No wonder dem say we no get sense.

Talk about dumbed down specimens of humanity incapable of rational debate.

Oh I forgot. It's not about rationality is it?

According to the Bible, you go to hell 4 using your brain.

Which explains the absence of intellectual input here.

And the descent into puerile comments.

Tragic.

A lot of the textual evidence is not in hardback form in the English language, and is decipherable by specialists such as Egyptologists able to read the ancient Egyptian language of Medu Netr (Hieroglyphs) as well as Greek, Hindi text etc.

So we glean from researchers schooled in the  fields to provide us with what's written in these texts - all
more ancient than the bible new testament stories.

You really need to delve into books rather than expecting the truth to drop on your lap on a forum. But are you willing to put your money where your mouth is and order books and take the time to read them?

No researcher has disputed for instance that Horus shares an amazing number of similarities with Jesus in terms of life story. Experts in Hieroglypphs are not disputing it. Experts in Egyptology and historians recognise that Horus was the Egytptian Son of God whose mother was ISIS MERI.

Horus was baptized by Anup the baptizer and had 12 disciples. etc etc

Oh he also walked on water. These are all in the ancient Egyptian texts like the book of the Coming Forth of the Day, circa 3000 BC. You simply need to read up on research
books that take you through the stories. Many verses from the Bible are virtual verbatim copies of those texts.


Recommended reading:

Suns of God: Krishna, Buddha and Christ Unveiled

http://www.truthbeknown.com/sunsofgod.htm

Egyptian texts and Biblical concepts (These can be seen right now showing links
between text from the Egyptian Book of the Dead etc, and later bible text):

http://www.egypt-tehuti.org/articles/egypt-bible-similarities.html



"How, if you hear that the man newly dead is, like the man newly born, still living man - one same, existent Spirit - will you weep? The end of birth is death; the end of death is birth: this is ordained!" - Bhagavad Gita (The Song Celestial: 2 Indian Krishna texts)

"I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again ,  no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.' The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit." - NT

The vestiges of pagan religion in Christian symbology are undeniable. ''Egyptian sun disks became the halos of Catholic saints. Pictograms of Isis nursing her miraculously conceived son Horus became the blueprint for our modern images of the Virgin Mary nursing Baby Jesus. And virtually all the elements of the Catholic ritual - the miter, the altar, the doxology, and communion, the act of "God-eating" - were taken directly from earlier pagan mystery religions."

"Nothing in Christianity is original. The pre-Christian God Mithras - called the Son of God and the Light of the World - was born on December 25, died, was buried in a rock tomb, and then resurrected in three days. By the way, December 25 is also the birthday or Osiris, Adonis, and Dionysus. The newborn Krishna was presented with gold, frankincense, and myrrh. Even Christianity's weekly holy day was stolen from the pagans."

The Pagan Origins Of Christian Mythology
by Brice C. Smith


The Judeo-Christian religions were founded in a region of the world where savior religions existed for thousands of years. Much of the symbolism and many of the stories in the Bible may be traced to earlier myths of the Persians, Egyptians, and other people from the near east. Under Constantine when the Roman Empire adopted Christianity the festivals and stories were further infused with the traditions of the earlier Roman pagan religion. Constantine himself worshipped both Jesus and the sun god Sol Invitus, the Romanized version of Mithra, until he died. It is, therefore, crucial to the proper understanding of the Bible to understand the influence that these ancient religions had on the early Jews and Christians when they were forming what was to become the Jeudo-Christian tradition.


KRISHNA:

In actuality, the legend of Jesus nearly identically parallels the story of Krishna, for example, even in detail, as was presented by noted mythologist and scholar Gerald Massey over 100 years ago, as well as by Rev. Robert Taylor 160 years ago, among others.3 The Krishna tale as told in the Hindu Vedas has been dated to at least as far back as 1400 B.C.E. The same can be said of the well-woven Horus mythos, which also is practically identical, in detail, to the Jesus story, but which predates the Christian version by thousands of years. (Acharya -The Christ Conspiracy)

Mithra (AMAZING SIMILARITIES WITH CHRISTIANITY)
Among the religions that played large roles in influencing the types of religious beliefs of the ancient near east, Zoroastrianism was probably the must important. Zarathushtra is the Iranian word for Zoroaster who founded this religion in ancient Persia approximately 2000 BCE. In ancient Iranian mythology, Ahura Mazda was the lord of light and wisdom, originally an equal to Mithra the god of light and justice, was elevated to the supreme being by the prophet Zoroaster. The extent to which the writers of the Old and New Testaments were acquainted with the Persians is evident in the numerous references to the Medes and the Persians in the Bible. Mithraism, an off-shoot of Zoroastrianism, holds many striking parallels in symbolism and mythology to the latter Jewish and early Christian writings.

One very interesting addition to the Jewish mythology thought to have been taken from Mithraism is Satan himself. Up to the time of the exile, the source of both good and evil to the Israelites was God. After the exile from Egypt, the doctrine of Mithraism became widely know to the Israelites. Their writings then begin the claim that God is the one God of the universe and that he is a God of righteousness. They introduce the character of Satan to explain all of the evil in the world. It is probable that the earliest writings about Satan were actually modeled on the arch deity Angra Mainyu of Zoroastrianism. The elaborate angelology and demonology of the later Judaism, the idea of a divine judgment and a final resurrection, and a future life which may be definitely described all seem to have come at least partially from the mythology of Zoroastrianism. An interesting side note to be mentioned here is that it is commonly believed that the Magi who are described visiting Jesus at his birth were Zoroastrian priests.

The influence of Mithraism on Christian mythology is even more pronounced. Mithra, a character already ancient by the birth of Jesus, appears to be one of the models for the later mysticizing of Jesus and his ministry. It is apparent that as each of the gospels was written more and more mystery and magic was accredited to Jesus. It is these additions to the story, added many years after his death, that borrow heavily from the earlier religions already well established in the near east. The story and role of Mithra is very similar to that of Jesus. The Zoroastrian religion centered on the struggle of Order against Chaos, Light against Dark. In this battle the Sun-god was a powerful ally for the side of light. Mithra was the son of the Sun- god sent to Earth to aid in this battle against evil and to be the savior of the world.

The Mithraic festival in celebration of Mithra's birth was held on December 25, the recognized date of Jesus' birth. Long before Christmas was celebrated, December 25th in the Roman world was the Natalis Solis Invicti, the birthday of the Unconquerable Sun.

This feast, which took place just after the winter solstice, was in honor of the Sun God Sol Invitus who was nothing more than the Roman adaptation of Mithra. Mithra was said to have been born in a cave or grotto where shepherds attended him and gave him gifts. This brings to mind much of the story of Jesus' birth in a stable. Mithra, like Jesus, is believed to have descended from heaven to earth, shared a last supper with twelve of this followers, and redeemed mankind from sin be shedding blood and rising from the dead. Mithraism postulates an apocalypse, a day of judgment, a resurrection of the flesh, and of a second coming of Mithra himself when he will finally defeat the principle of evil. The Mithraists even baptize their followers as Christians do, though they use bull's blood instead of water.

The similarities do not stop there. The symbol of Mithra was[b] the setting and rising sun, which invoke images of Christ's death and resurrection. Both religions also included a sacrament of bread and wine derived from the last supper of their respective saviors. The influence of Mithraism on Christianity is even more pronounced in the symbolism and style of the later Gospels as well as in the language and dress of the early Christian leaders. The style of many Mithraic verses seem quite familiar to modern Christians. A typical verse used in a Mithraic service is "Be of good cheer, sacred band of Initiates, your God has risen from the dead. His pains and sufferings shall be your salvation."[/b]

It is clear that many of the phrases used by Paul seem to draw heavily upon the terminology and style of the Mithraic religion. Another example of this borrowing of Mithraic symbolism is when Paul says "They drink from that spiritual rock and that rock is Christ" (I Cor. 10:4). Mithra was sometimes termed the god out of the rock and Mithraic services were often held in caves. In fact the Vatican hill in Rome that is sacred to Peter, the Christian rock, was already scared to Mithra. Many Mithraic artifacts have been found there. This should not be surprising when it is realized that Mithraism was introduced to the Roman empire around 70 BCE, over 350 years before Christianity was adopted as the official state religion, and that Tarsus, the home of Paul, was one of the chief centers of Mithra worship in the ancient world.

The liturgy of the Eucharist that John describes requires the converted to be born again. In John 3:3 Jesus states that "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again." This concept of rebirth is again not unique to Christianity. It was in fact integral to the Mithraic religion for 2000 years before Jesus was born. In the Mithraic liturgy, it is stated that it is necessary "so that [the speaker] may gaze upon the immortal beginning with the immortal spirit that I may be born again in thought." Along with the concept of rebirth, the description of the Mithraic communion is nearly indistinguishable form the Christian accounts. The prayer said at a Mithraic communion is "He who will not eat of my body, nor drink of my blood so that he may be one with me and I with him, shall not be saved." This prayer may be compared to the Christian communion story in Luke 21:19 when Jesus breaks the bread and says "This is my body to be given up for you. This cup is the new covenant in my blood which will be shed for you." It is clear just how much influence the symbolism and terminology of Mithraism had on the earliest Christian writers. The other stylist influence that Mithraism had on Christianity is in the dress and trappings used during religious services.

The Mithraic Holy Father wore a red cap, garment, and ring and carried a shepherd's staff. The early Christian leaders adopted the Mithraic title of priest as well as their style of dress. Like the Mithraic priests, the Christian's became Father' despite Jesus' specific proscription of the acceptance of such a title.

In Matthew 23:9 Jesus states that you should "call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven." The Mithraic priest wore robes which featured the sword (cross) of Mithra which are identical to the robes worn by Catholic priests to this day. The Mithraic bishops wore a mithra, or miter, as their badge of office which was also adopted by early Christian bishops. During a mass, Mithraists commemorated the ascension of the sun-god by eating a mizd, a sun shaped bun with the sword (cross) of Mithra. The mass and the communion wafer were likewise adapted to Christianity. The Roman Catholic mass wafer has maintained this sun shape for over a thousand years. No one would claim that the Judeo-Christian religious tradition is taken entirely from one source. As I will show, many similar adaptations were taken from Egypt, Rome, and other ancient civilizations, but it is clear that the Persian cult of Mithra was one of the most influential sources of mythology and symbolism to the ancient Israelites who wrote the Bible.

Egypt
Another important source that the early Christians drew from was the great civilization to the west, Egypt. Many of the pieces to the stories surrounding Jesus which differ from Mithraism may be found in the mythology of the Egyptians. Due to the vast differences in writing systems, the Egyptian religion did not have as strong an influence on the style of early Christian writings, but the influence of the characters and the magic associated with each is even more pronounced than it is for Mithraism.

The four most import figures in Egyptian mythology needed to understanding the Christian stories are Set, Isis, Osiris, and Horus. In earliest times, Set was the patron deity of Lower (Northern) Egypt, and represented the fierce storms of the desert whom the Lower Egyptians sought to appease. However, when Upper Egypt conquered Lower Egypt and ushered in the First Dynasty, Set became known as the evil enemy of Horus (Upper Egypt's dynastic god). In Egyptian religion Set, of Seth, came to stand for the forces of chaos and destruction, of energy misplaced. He was the opposer of light and the champion of darkness. Set was the principle of all which burns and consumes. In later periods, Set was identified with the Greek genie Typhon who had a serpents body. The snake is a symbol long associated with Set which undoubtedly influenced the use of the snake as the evil influence in the story of Adam and Eve. In the dynastic periods, when Osiris, Horus, and Isis were worshipped, followers of Set were persecuted and his priesthood was finally destroyed in the XXV dynasty. When the Hebrews emigrated from Egypt during the XIX dynasty, it is clear that they took with them the character of Set which was later used along with Angra Mainyu as the model for Satan. Even the word Satan was probably derived from the Egyptian hieroglyphic Set-hen, one of Set's formal titles.

The next major Egyptian character who had a large influence on the early Christians is Isis. Perhaps the most important goddess of all Egyptian mythology, Isis assumed, during the course of Egyptian history, the attributes and functions of virtually every other important goddess in the land. Her most important functions, however, were those of motherhood, marital devotion, healing the sick, and the working of magical spells and charms. [b]She was the sister and wife of Osiris, sister of Set, and the mother of Horus the Child (Harpocrates). Isis was responsible for protecting Horus from Set during his infancy; for helping Osiris to return to life; and for assisting her husband to rule in the land of the Dead. Isis figures strongly in the rites and symbolism associated with Mary.

She was considered to be the mother of the king who is thought to be a God made man to rule over his earthy kingdom. The cult of Isis was widespread in Egypt and spread from there to Phoenicia, Syria and Palestine; to Asia Minor; to Cyprus, Rhodes, Crete, Samos and other islands in the Aegean; to many parts of mainland Greece - Corinth, Argos and Thessaly amongst them; to Malta and Sicily; and, finally, to Rome. In the first century BC, Isis was perhaps the most popular goddess in Rome, from which her cult spread to the furthest limits of the Roman Empire, including Britain: her only rival was Mithras. An interesting side note to this is that the 'Black Virgins', so highly reverenced in certain French cathedrals have been shown to be in fact basalt figures of Isis.[/b]

Many of the parallels between Isis and Mary also figure in the parallel between Horus, her son, and Jesus. Obviously the most important similarity is that Isis was said to be a virgin when she gave birth to Horus. This is, of course, to be compared to the biblical story of the immaculate conception. As well as similarities between their stories and their functions, there are several similarities in the types of symbols and language surrounding Isis and Mary. Isis is constantly referred to as the honored one or as the holy one. She is referred to with language like "Immaculate is our Lady Isis" which is nearly identical to the language used about Mary. Cyril, the bishop of Alexandria, openly embraced Isis and simply anthropomorphized her into Mary.

Osiris was the god of the dead, and the god of the resurrection into eternal life; ruler, protector, and judge of the deceased. Osiris was the brother of Set and Isis, who was also his wife by whom he fathered Horus. Osiris ruled the world of men in the beginning, after Ra had abandoned the world to rule the skies, but he was murdered by his brother Set. Through the magic of Isis, he was made to live again. By Dynasty XVIII, Osiris was probably the most widely worshipped god in Egypt. Reliefs of Roman emperors, conquerors of Egypt, dressed in the traditional garb of the Pharaohs, making offerings to him in the temples exist to this day. His death was avenged by his son Horus, who defeated Set, castrated him, and cast him out into the Sahara. Horus then became the divine prototype of the Pharaoh. As Heru-your, "Horus the Elder", he was the patron deity of Upper (Southern) Egypt. Initially he was viewed as the twin brother of Set (the patron of Lower Egypt), but he became the conqueror of Set around 3100 BCE when Upper Egypt conquered Lower Egypt and formed the unified kingdom of Egypt.

There are many striking similarities between the stories surrounding Osiris and Horus and those surrounding Jesus. I will first describe the similarities between their stories and then I will talk about the similar themes and imagery used in the stories. Horus was born to the virgin Isis as Jesus was to Mary. Horus was born in Annu, the place of bread, where a star announced his birth. Jesus was born in Bethlehem, the house of bread, with an eastern star leading the Magi to his birthplace. Horus was baptized with water by Anup the Baptizer at the age of thirty just as Jesus was baptized at thirty by John the Baptist.

Horus had twelve followers known as Har-Khutti and Jesus had his twelve followers known as disciples. Horus was carried off by Set to the summit of Mount Hetep where they did battle. Jesus was carried off by Satan to the Mount where Jesus was tested by Satan.

After Horus' death he was wrapped in a mummy bandage that was woven without seam just like the vesture of Christ is without a seam. And finally there was That-Aan who bore witness to the word of Ra and to the testimony of Horus just as John bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus. The stories of Osiris also shows many similarities to Jesus. Osiris was considered to be the bringer of enlightenment. He forced no man to carry out his will. He induced them to practice what he preached by means of gentle persuasion. His lessons were often imparted to his listeners through hymns or songs. Much of this may be seen in the later writings about the ministry of Jesus.

Of course, the most important similarity between the stories of Osiris and Jesus is their death and resurrection. Osiris was killed by his brother Set, his body stripped, torn to pieces, and finally scattered about. In this way, the death of Osiris bears similarity to the death of Jesus when his body is stripped and his clothes were divvied up among the soldiers. Osiris was then resurrected with the aid of his wife/sister Isis and his son Horus and in doing so became the lord of death and the keeper of the afterlife. This is mirrored in the story of Jesus' resurrection and subsequent mastery over death.

Each year Osiris was the subject of the Abydos passion play, a ritual that stretched from the Old Kingdom up until around 400 CE. The Abydos passion play depicts the slaying of Osiris and his followers by Set. The figure of Osiris is then torn to pieces by Set, after which his remains are gathered up by his wife, Isis, and son, Horus, who then restore him to life. This ritual is mirrored by modern day Christians during Easter when the death and resurrection of Jesus is reenacted in modern passion plays. Some of these stories about Horus are accredited to Osiris and vise versa, but what is clear is that much of the mystical aspects that were added to the later stories of Jesus' ministry drew heavily from the earlier Egyptian texts with which the writers were undoubtedly familiar.

Even more startling than the plot similarities are the symbolic similarities between the Egyptian and Christian stories. Horus was associated both with the lion and with the lamb as was Jesus. Horus was identified with the Tat or cross as well as with the shepherd's crook and the rod. This association was first made through Isis, his mother. In an ancient Egyptian text Isis states that "I am the staff of his power in his youth, and he is the rod of my old age." This association was strengthened by the pharaohs, who were called Kings of the Kingdom and The Great Shepherds of Their Flock. In the tradition of Horus, who was called "The Good Shepherd", the pharaohs carried the staff and rod as the symbols of their heavenly power . Jesus' association with the cross goes without saying but he was also portrayed as the Good Shepherd, and in Rev. 12:5 and 19:15 he is said to "rule with a rod of iron." There are also Old Testament associations between God and the shepherd's crook and the rod. In the Book of Psalms the famous line "Yea, though I walk through the valley of death, I will fear no evil, for thou art with me. Thy Rod and thy Staff, they comfort me" ( Psalms 23:4 ) points to the influence of the Egyptian traditions.

Horus was known as Iu-em-Hetep, he who comes in peace, Horus the avenger, and Horus the afflicted one. Latter Jesus would be called the bringer of peace, he who brings the sword, and the afflicted one. Horus was the sower and Set was the destroyer in the Harvest field. Horus was identified with the plant, the shoot, and the natzar. Jesus was the sower of good seed and Satan the sower of tares. Jesus was also associated with the "true vine".

The influence of astrology on the stories of Horus and then later on the story of Jesus goes far beyond the star that signaled both their births. Horus was known as the Morning Star or as he who gives the Morning Star to his followers just as Jesus was. Horus also spoke of the paradise of the pole star Am-Khemen just as Christians have the Holy City lighted by one luminary that is neither the Sun nor the Moon, which makes it most likely the pole star. Along with the symbolic comparisons, some of the sayings attributed to both deities also show the influence of the Egyptians on the early Christian chroniclers and to those who later translated the Bible.

Horus says "It is I who traverse the heavens; I go around the Sekhet-Arru (the Elysian Fields); Eternity has been assigned to me without end. Lo! I am heir of endless time and my attribute is eternity". Striking a remarkably similar cord, Jesus later says "I am come down from Heaven. For this is the will of the Father that everyone who beholdeth the Son and believeth in Him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

Another similarity in speech is when Horus says that "I open the Tuat that I may drive away the darkness." Jesus is later quoted as saying "I am come a light unto the world."

One final example is when Horus says that "I am equipped with thy words O Ra (the father of heaven) and repeat them to those who are deprived of breath. These were the words of the father in heaven." Jesus speaks with much the same feeling when he says "The Father which sent me, he hath given me a commandment, what I should say and what I should speak. Whatsoever I speak, therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak. The word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me."

Finally the most important similarity between the Egyptian religion and Christianity is the concept of a holy trinity. The tradition of the trinity goes back to the Amon theology of the Rameside period. The one god has three appearances or forms which are combined and treated as a singular being. In the later periods, the Egyptian trinity was taken to be Atum the Father, Horus the Son, and Ra the Holy Spirit. This is of course paralleled in the Christian trinity of God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It is clear that not only the Persian cult of Mithra, but also the ancient pagan religions of Egypt strongly influenced the formation of the Judeo- Christian religion which grew up trapped between these two giants.

Conclusions

With all of these comparisons and similarities, I have not intended to imply that the Bible is merely plagiarized from these earlier sources. Nor have I intended to prove the that the Bible is a work of fiction. What I have intended to show, and what is apparently clear, is that when the founders of the Christian faith set out to document the life and message of their founder, Jesus, they drew from the best sources of religious doctrine available.

Just as any other writer, the writers of the Bible were influenced by their own cultural biases and view points as well as by the religious figures they met. And as time went on and Christianity was adopted and spread throughout the Roman Empire and the rest of the world, it is not surprising that it was infused with the religious doctrine, symbolism, and mysticism of the cultures it encountered.

To show that these were not just isolated examples from two religions, here is a list of over thirty saviors who were said to have descended from heaven, taken the form of men, and furnished evidence of their divine origin by various miracles and marvelous works. Each laid the foundation for salvation, all were worshipped as Gods or sons of Gods, many were said to have been born to virgins, and many were also said to have been crucified. The list includes such figures as Chrishna of Hindostan, Budha Sakia of India, Salivahana of Bermuda, Zulis and Orus of Egypt, Odin of the Scandinavians, Crite of Chaldea, Baal and Taut of Phoenecia, Indra of Tibet, Bali of Afganistan, Jao of Nepal, Wittoba of the Bilingonese, Thammuz of Syria, Atys of Phrygia, Xamolxis of Thrace, Adad of Assyria, Deva Tat and Sammonocadam of Siam, Alcides of Thebes, Mikado of the Sintoos, Beddru of Japan, Hesus or Eros and Bremrillah of the Druids, Thor of the Gauls, Cadmus and Adonis of Greece, Hil and Feta of the Mandaites, Gentaut and Quexalcote of Mexico, Universal Monarch of the Sibyls, Ischy of the island of Formosa, Divine teacher of Plato, the Holy One of Xaca, Fohi and Tien of China, Ixion and Quirinus of Rome, Prometheus of Caucasus, Mohamud or Mahomet of Arabia. So, truly, the study of the Christian faith must be a study of world faiths. For if we ignore or dismiss the beliefs of others, even those of ancient civilizations, then we are missing an essential part of our own faith.

It is evident that there was no single historical person upon whom the Christian religion was founded, and that "Jesus Christ" is a compilation of legends, heroes, gods and godmen. There is not adequate room here to go into detail about each god or godman that contributed to the formation of the Jewish Jesus character; suffice it to say that there is plenty of documentation to show that this issue is not a question of "faith" or "belief." The truth is that during the era this character supposedly lived there was an extensive library at Alexandria and an incredibly nimble brotherhood network that stretched from Europe to China, and this information network had access to numerous manuscripts that told the same narrative portrayed in the New Testament with different place names and ethnicity for the characters. In actuality, the legend of Jesus nearly identically parallels the story of Krishna, for example, even in detail, as was presented by noted mythologist and scholar Gerald Massey over 100 years ago, as well as by Rev. Robert Taylor 160 years ago, among others.32 The Krishna tale as told in the Hindu Vedas has been dated to at least as far back as 1400 B.C.E.33 The same can be said of the well-woven Horus mythos, which also is practically identical, in detail, to the Jesus story, but which predates the Christian version by thousands of years.

As concerns the specious claim that the analogies between the Christ myth and those outlined below are "non-existent" because they are not found in "primary sources," let us turn to the words of the early Church fathers, who acknowledged that major important aspects of the Christ character are indeed to be found in the stories of earlier, "Pagan" gods, but who asserted that the reason for these similarities was because the evidently prescient devil "anticipated" Christ and planted "foreshadowing" of his "coming" in the heathens' minds.

In his First Apology, Christian father Justin Martyr (c. 100-165) acknowledged the similarities between the older Pagan gods and religions and those of Christianity, when he attempted to demonstrate, in the face of ridicule, that Christianity was no more ridiculous than the earlier myths:

"ANALOGIES TO THE HISTORY OF CHRIST. And when we say also that the Word, who is the first-birth of God, was produced without sexual union, and that He, Jesus Christ, our Teacher, was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended into heaven, we propound nothing different from what you believe regarding those whom you esteem sons of Jupiter. For you know how many sons your esteemed writers ascribed to Jupiter: Mercury, the interpreting word and teacher of all; Aesculapius, who, though he was a great physician, was struck by a thunderbolt, and so ascended to heaven; and Bacchus too, after he had been torn limb from limb; and Hercules, when he had committed himself to the flames to escape his toils; and the sons of Leda, and Dioscuri; and Perseus, son of Danae; and Bellerophon, who, though sprung from mortals, rose to heaven on the horse Pegasus. For what shall I say of Ariadne, and those who, like her, have been declared to be set among the stars? And what of the emperors who die among yourselves, whom you deem worthy of deification, and in whose behalf you produce some one who swears he has seen the burning Caesar rise to heaven from the funeral pyre?"

In his endless apologizing, Justin reiterates the similarities between his godman and the gods of other cultures:

"As to the objection of our Jesus's being crucified, I say, that suffering was common to all the aforementioned sons of Jove [Jupiter],  As to his being born of a virgin, you have your Perseus to balance that. As to his curing the lame, and the paralytic, and such as were cripples from birth, this is little more than what you say of your Aesculapius."

In making these comparisons between Christianity and its predecessor Paganism, however, Martyr sinisterly spluttered:

"It having reached the Devil’s ears that the prophets had foretold the coming of Christ, the Son of God, he set the heathen Poets to bring forward a great many who should be called the sons of Jove. The Devil laying his scheme in this, to get men to imagine that the true history of Christ was of the same characters the prodigious fables related of the sons of Jove."

In his Dialogue with Trypho the Jew, Martyr again admits the pre-existence of the Christian tale and then uses his standard, irrational and self-serving apology, i.e., "the devil got there first":

"Be well assured, then, Trypho, that I am established in the knowledge of and faith in the Scriptures by those counterfeits which he who is called the devil is said to have performed among the Greeks; just as some were wrought by the Magi in Egypt, and others by the false prophets in Elijah’s days. For when they tell that Bacchus, son of Jupiter, was begotten by [Jupiter’s] intercourse with Semele, and that he was the discoverer of the vine; and when they relate, that being torn in pieces, and having died, he rose again, and ascended to heaven; and when they introduce wine into his mysteries, do I not perceive that [the devil] has imitated the prophecy announced by the patriarch Jacob, and recorded by Moses? And when they tell that Hercules was strong, and travelled over all the world, and was begotten by Jove of Alcmene, and ascended to heaven when he died, do I not perceive that the Scripture which speaks of Christ, "strong as a giant to run his race," has been in like manner imitated? And when he [the devil] brings forward Aesculapius as the raiser of the dead and healer of all diseases, may I not say that in this matter likewise he has imitated the prophecies about Christ?,  And when I hear, Trypho, that Perseus was begotten of a virgin, I understand that the deceiving serpent counterfeited also this."

And in his Octavius, Christian writer Minucius Felix (c. 250 CE) denied that Christians worshipped a "criminal and his cross," and retorted that the Pagans did esteem a crucified man:

"Chapter XXIX.-Argument: Nor is It More True that a Man Fastened to a Cross on Account of His Crimes is Worshipped by Christians, for They Believe Not Only that He Was Innocent, But with Reason that He Was God. But, on the Other Hand, the Heathens Invoke the Divine Powers of Kings Raised into Gods by Themselves; They Pray to Images, and Beseech Their Genii.

"These, and such as these infamous things, we are not at liberty even to hear; it is even disgraceful with any more words to defend ourselves from such charges. For you pretend that those things are done by chaste and modest persons, which we should not believe to be done at all, unless you proved that they were true concerning yourselves. For in that you attribute to our religion the worship of a criminal and his cross, you wander far from the neighbourhood of the truth, in thinking either that a criminal deserved, or that an earthly being was able, to be believed God,  Crosses, moreover, we neither worship nor wish for. You, indeed, who consecrate gods of wood, adore wooden crosses perhaps as parts of your gods. For your very standards, as well as your banners; and flags of your camp, what else are they but crosses gilded and adorned? Your victorious trophies not only imitate the appearance of a simple cross, but also that of a man affixed to it, "

The Jesus story incorporated elements from the tales of other deities recorded in this widespread area, such as many of the following world saviors and "sons of God," most or all of whom predate the Christian myth, and a number of whom were crucified or executed.33a

Adad of Assyria
Adonis, Apollo, Heracles ("Hercules" and Zeus of Greece
Alcides of Thebes
Attis of Phrygia
Baal of Phoenicia
Bali of Afghanistan
Beddru of Japan
Buddha of India
Crite of Chaldea
Deva Tat of Siam
Hesus of the Druids
Horus, Osiris, and Serapis of Egypt, whose long-haired, bearded appearance was adopted for the Christ character34
Indra of Tibet/India
Jao of Nepal
Krishna of India
Mikado of the Sintoos
Mithra of Persia
Odin of the Scandinavians
Prometheus of Caucasus/Greece
Quetzalcoatl of Mexico
Salivahana of Bermuda
Tammuz of Syria (who was, in a typical mythmaking move, later turned into the disciple Thomas35)
Thor of the Gauls
Universal Monarch of the Sibyls36
Wittoba of the Bilingonese
Xamolxis of Thrace
Zarathustra/Zoroaster of Persia
Zoar of the Bonzes
© 2006 Acharya S

lafile, which one be oldest recording? PALLY we're talking thousands of years before ''Jesus''. Horus, whom the ancient Egyptians worshipped as the Son of God, was around something like 4000 years before ''Jesus''. Innumerable statues, papyrri, temple inscriptions, monuments, ancient texts of all shapes, sizes and dates thousands of years before Christ attest to his being the progenitor of the fictional Christ character. And Horus himself was a mythological character. The Egyptians never believed Horus was a real man. He was a 'saviour god'.

Then the latter-day ''Christian fathers'' stole his stories, plus others' and created a character called 'Christ' complete with fictional city 'Nazareth', and other false appurtenances.

Read the amazing correspondences between what we know of Horus, and what we know of the latter day Jesus. In due course, I'll reveal the astonishing confluences between ''Jesus'' and other savior gods like Krishna as well - even Buddha!

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5.htm

lafile, first off, Josephus was NOT contemporary to Jesus. In fact I believe he was born three years after Jesus supposedly ascended to heaven.

Second, even mainstream theologians accept his single reference to 'a man called Chistus' as a forgery or an interpolation.

NONE of the writers contemporary to Jesus period, such as Seneca and Pliny the Elder, nor the numerous Scribes and Pharisses/Saducees etc wrote ANYTHING about ''Jesus''.

Because he did not exist.

Stories about this guy only started circulating 40 years after his alleged life. No theologian or priest that knows of these things disputes this fact.

It's only the SHEEP such as we see on this site, that are oblivious to the truth, and wish, largely to remain that way.

Trini girl or whatever she calls herself is especially brainwashed, and what she's reading is hurting her real bad.

But the truth is the truth, and as the saying goes, You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free (ancient Egyptian saying wrongly credited to the Bible).

Incidentally, that's a saying that's found on EVERY EGYPTIAN TEMPLE.

Christianity is but recycled/repackaged myth. FACT.

''What profit it has it not brought us, this fable of Christ!'' - Pope Leo X

He would know! 

Shahan, you're really funny.

I'm here telling you that the earliest reference to Jesus was 40-60 years after his death and you're reading to me what's in the Bible??

So because some IDIOT writes in the Bible that he witnessed Jesus means we should believe him?

Theology and science do not work that way. The bible texts themselves are not proof of their own authenticity.

Even the most sympathetic theologians and researchers would never dare suggest that any of the gospels were written by anyone who saw 'Jesus', for the simple reason that it is KNOWN that the earliest text references to Jesus were done not less than 40 years after he'd ''died and ascended into the heavens to sit at the right hand of God''

Chei. My people will believe any rubbish thrown at them by whitey. 

And how do you solve the problem of why no contemporary writer of the period wrote a word about this famous 'Christ' despite all his alleged escapades?

Isn't it because - like other myth saviour-gods before him like Hercules and Mythra, he didn't actually exist?

How do you account for the same life stories of all the saviour gods, including ''Jesus'', the last of the lot?

Isn't it because they simply borrowed stories from ancient myth in order to assimilate converts while creating a unique fictional savior god they could rally people round in order to CONTROL them, something the Christian Church has been remarkably successful at doing, especially in Africa and South America etc etc?

Statues of the ancient Egyptan saviour god, baby Horus being held by his mother Isis, are all over Europe and Egypt in the form of 'Black Madonnas'. That explains the root of the Mary carrying baby Jesus palaver etc etc,

Horus, who was worshipped as the Light of the World, who had come to die for man's sins, was as popular in his day as Jesus is today.

Horus was born of a virgin, Isis. He walked on water, and he had 12 disciples. Plus other similarities with the 'Christ' that came of a few thousand years later.

Only a blind man can fail to see the duplicity in all of this.

Many independent thinkers believe Christianity and Islam are the biggest VOODOO religions of all, in the way they get their followers to suspend all reasoning faculties and become unthinking Zombies.

Why then were we endowed with brains if not for thinking things through with common sense?

How do you account for the non-existence of ''the city of Nazareth'' outside the Bible? No trace of the place, no record of it anywhere - in a region where even the most remote villages where known to the scribes and listed in numerous texts and uncountable scrolls?

Why are their so many confluences with SUN imagery and its planetary cycles? Including the SUN HALO around the head of the 'Christ'?

Sun imagery was used to define Horus as well. He was called The Light of The World. The saviour of the World, the son of GOD.

Instead of trying to cast aspersion on people why not tackle the most difficult issues raised here, rather than incessantly lying to yourself?

Damn. This forum is filled with far too many dunces for my liking.

This what happens when you get so blinded by religion that you've no genuine debate left in ya, save for silly snide remarks that ultimately count for nothing, and amount to an admission of defeat and cluelessness.

The Origins of Christianity and
the Quest for the Historical Jesus Christ

by Acharya S

Introduction

Around the world over the centuries, much has been written about religion, its meaning, its relevance and contribution to humanity. In the West particularly, sizable tomes have been composed speculating upon the nature and historical background of the main character of Western religions, Jesus Christ. Many have tried to dig into the precious few clues as to Jesus's identity and come up with a biographical sketch that either bolsters faith or reveals a more human side of this godman to which we can all relate. Obviously, considering the time and energy spent on them, the subjects of Christianity and its legendary founder are very important to the Western mind and culture.

The Controversy
Despite all of this literature continuously being cranked out and the significance of the issue, in the public at large there is a serious lack of formal and broad education regarding religion and mythology, and most individuals are highly uninformed in this area.

Concerning the issue of Christianity, for example, the majority of people are taught in most schools and churches that Jesus Christ was an actual historical figure and that the only controversy regarding him is that some people accept him as the Son of God and the Messiah, while others do not. However, whereas this is the raging debate most evident in this field today, it is not the most important. Shocking as it may seem to the general populace, the most enduring and profound controversy in this subject is whether or not a person named Jesus Christ ever really existed.

Although this debate may not be evident from publications readily found in popular bookstores, when one examines this issue closely, one will find a tremendous volume of literature that demonstrates, logically and intelligently, time and again that Jesus Christ is a mythological character along the same lines as the Greek, Roman, Egyptian, Sumerian, Phoenician, Indian or other godmen, who are all presently accepted as myths rather than historical figures.

Delving deeply into this large body of work, one uncovers evidence that the Jesus character is based upon much older myths and heroes from around the globe. One discovers that this story is not, therefore, a historical representation of a Jewish rebel carpenter who had a physical incarnation in the Levant 2,000 years ago. In other words, it has been demonstrated continually for centuries that this character, Jesus Christ, was invented and did not depict a real person who was either the "son of God" or was "evemeristically" made into a superhuman by enthusiastic followers.

History and Positions of the Debate
This controversy has existed from the very beginning, and the writings of the "Church Fathers" themselves reveal that they were constantly forced by the pagan intelligentsia to defend what the non-Christians and other Christians ("heretics" alike saw as a preposterous and fabricated yarn with absolutely no evidence of it ever having taken place in history.

As Rev. Robert Taylor says, "And from the apostolic age downwards, in a never interrupted succession, but never so strongly and emphatically as in the most primitive times, was the existence of Christ as a man most strenuously denied."

Emperor Julian, who, coming after the reign of the fanatical and murderous "good Christian" Constantine, returned rights to pagan worshippers, stated, "If anyone should wish to know the truth with respect to you Christians, he will find your impiety to be made up partly of the Jewish audacity, and partly of the indifference and confusion of the Gentiles, and that you have put together not the best, but the worst characteristics of them both." According to these learned dissenters, the New Testament could rightly be called, "Gospel Fictions."

A century ago, mythicist Albert Churchward said, "The canonical gospels can be shown to be a collection of sayings from the Egyptian Mythos and Eschatology."

In Forgery in Christianity, Joseph Wheless states, "The gospels are all priestly forgeries over a century after their pretended dates."

Those who concocted some of the hundreds of "alternative" gospels and epistles that were being kicked about during the first several centuries C.E. have even admitted that they had forged the documents.

Forgery during the first centuries of the Church's existence was admittedly rampant, so common in fact that a new phrase was coined to describe it: "pious fraud."

Such prevarication is confessed to repeatedly in the Catholic Encyclopedia. Some of the "great" church fathers, such as Eusebius, were determined by their own peers to be unbelievable liars who regularly wrote their own fictions of what "the Lord" said and did during "his" alleged sojourn upon the earth.

The Proof
The assertion that Jesus Christ is a myth can be proved not only through the works of dissenters and "pagans" who knew the truth - and who were viciously refuted or murdered for their battle against the Christian priests and "Church Fathers" fooling the masses with their fictions - but also through the very statements of the Christians themselves, who continuously disclose that they knew Jesus Christ was a myth founded upon more ancient deities located throughout the known ancient world. In fact, Pope Leo X, privy to the truth because of his high rank, made this curious declaration, "What profit has not that fable of Christ brought us!" (Emphasis added.) As Wheless says, "The proofs of my indictment are marvellously easy."

Read more:

http://www.truthbeknown.com/origins.htm

Typical Straw arguments - picking holes in mundane aspects and ignoring the wider questions raised. NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

WHY did nobody in Jesus' time record his existence although there were hundreds of professional writers, scribes, and other such pen men?

WHY is the earliest reference to Jesus some 60 years after he supposedly died?

WHY did POPE Leo X make this comment: 'What riches it has brought us - this fable of Christ?'

WHY do ALL the ancient saviour gods who were worshipped centuries and millenia before Jesus including Horus, Krishna, Mythra, Dionysius, Hercules, etc all share the same life story as Jesus? They all had 12 disciples, born of a virgin, and walked on water, among other similarities. Why?

WHAT sort of 'coincidence' is that?

WHY is there no evidence for the existence of a city called Nazareth?

WHY are there no records of Jesus in any Roman archives when it is common knowledge that the Romans kept records meticulously?

WHY are the gospels presented as if they were eyewitness accounts by the writers when they were in actuality written in the third and fourth persons?

Why is there not one single shred of historical evidence to support the existence of Jesus if in fact he lived?

ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS. Don't go picking INCONSEQUENTIAL holes where they don't matter.

ANSWER THE SUBSTANTIVE QUESTIONS RAISED OR STFU. 

It would help if certain knuckleheads around here took the time to tackle issues raised intelligently, rather than reacting in such a braindead manner.

Oh I forgot. The Bible says you're not supposed to think - which is why us intelligent peeps have nothing to do with it.

It's for dunces like Ms Hiss above.

WELL, HOW DO YOU ADDRESS THE ISSUES RAISED THEREIN?

It's not enough to keep regurgitating your 'same old story' line.