kalokalo said:

Really?? If what you say is true, why not think of what would happen if all Nigerians were transferred to the UK and all Brits were brought to Nigeria and give each nation about 25 years or less. Nigeria would become an advanced and wealthy nation and the UK would crumble.

It may be politically correct to deny it but you know it is true.

Another thoughtless diatribe. If transferred to Nigeria, the British would certainly not have to deal with the problems of a colonialist power having destroyed their culture, imposed foreign languages and religions on them, and lumped  them together with 250 other different, rival ethnic groups!!!

Some of you need to get it into your colonized brains that development is not just a matter of skin colour, but that a whole variety of factors - social, economic, political, and geographical - determine if, when, and to what extent a nation develops.


If the British EVEN IN BRITAIN NOW had to forge a ''nation'' comprising themselves, Germans, Turks, French, Spanish, Italians and Russians, the way they lumped Nigeria, how far do you think they will go before civil war and conflict broke out? Probably not very long.

And why was Nigeria not an advanced nation by 1960, or was it not the British that ruled in that period? Why were we not even remotely close to being developed after 90 years of British rule? Why were our grandparents ALL illiterate?

You simply cannot ignore the record of blatant incompetence, ineptitude, greed, grand theft, and corruption that defined British colonial rule in Nigeria, just because you feel inferior to them. WE DON'T, so we can see their record of non achievement clearly and without eyes blinkered by colonial inferiority complex.

ezeagu said:

silly argument, without the British where did Nigerians build motorways or railways?

I don't understand your syntax. What exactly are you trying to say here? Do you realize there was actually not a single motorway in Nigeria during British rule? The joke of a railway they built was little more than a couple of vertical routes from the north through to the southern coasts for the export of Nigerian resources, with the proceeds pocketed by London.

Anyway, if the British stayed Nigerians would be 'in bondage' but they will be far better off than they are now. Sad fact.

This conclusion seems to be predicated on little more than a wretched, in-bred inferiority complex.

There's nothing to show that the British would have suddenly began building schools, universities, hospitals, erecting water, road, and electricity infrastructure etc from the 1960s onwards, when they did no such thing between the 1880s AND 1960 - an egregious neglect of the people that led to vociferous calls for independence.

PhysicsMHD said:

Kindly tell us where you were educated so we can discuss who made it possible.

U.S.

How did you end up in the US? Did your parents not work in Nigeria to send you there? Who provided the enabling environment for your people to be able to send you to Yank to study? Under the British, only the most highly privileged could even dream of such a thing. Under Nigerian leadership, so much wealth was created that such a thing became commonplace, so you still have Nigerian leaders to thank for what you got!

Dude spare me your claptrap. Go and research what your country produces. Are you not a Nigerian? Have you no shame to be asking a fellow Nigerian to show you ''proof'' of what and what is produced in your own country? Do a Google and EDUCATE yourself. It's not my job.

I am a Nigerian. Not at all ashamed. Everything that every country produces is not common knowledge. You have to dig for official studies, etc. or just be in the know.

Then go DIG!!!! You don't stand in some uppity position telling others to show you ''proof'' that Nigeria produces this or that. If you cared about the country, as opposed to sniffing your nose at it, you would be on Google right now scouring for info YOURSELF.

The poster claimed Nigeria did not produce its own refined oil. I told him we did, and mentioned other things Nigeria produces. You need to learn to follow a thread properly.

Does Nigeria refine its own oil? I'm just asking innocently. I'm not an expert on that whole oil sector.

Nigeria refines SOME of its oil. Two major refineries have just been resuscitated after years of neglect by dictatorial regimes.

Lol, so could we have been producing quality computers on a significant scale under British rule?

Don't be daft.  

Uh, it actually didn't.

Kindly tell us where you were educated so we can discuss who made it possible.

And you do realize that when someone asserts something with no evidence, the onus is on that person to prove that what they assert is true?

Dude spare me your claptrap. Go and research what your country produces. Are you not a Nigerian? Have you no shame to be asking a fellow Nigerian to show you ''proof'' of what and what is produced in your own country? Do a Google and EDUCATE yourself. It's not my job.

Anyways, what finished products does Nigeria export?

The poster claimed Nigeria did not produce its own refined oil. I told him we did, and mentioned other things Nigeria produces. You need to learn to follow a thread properly.

And at what quality and/or scale are these chemicals, tires, steel, textiles, buses,cars, and computers being produced and where?

A far higher quality and on a far larger, meaningful scale than anything accomplished under British rule.

For more info, visit:

www.google.com

Show and prove what? The Nigerian govt educated you at public expense. Use that education and do some research. Nobody owes you any ''proof''.

Justcash said:

@Jen33:
Nigeria is backwards. We have not achieved any meaningful or commendable development since after the independence. 

Nigeria stopped moving forward the moment the British completely left Nigeria in 1963. Everything grounded to a halt, and we have been doing the moonwalk since then.

So when are you returning to your VILLAGE to live and work? You do recall that 95% of Nigerians lived in thatched roof villages with no running water or electricity during the ''good old days'' of British colonialism. You really can return to that era RIGHT NOW by simply taking the next bus to your village and arranging a farm and boys to build your thatched hut. So what's stopping you? Why are you still in the ''new Nigeria'' of cities, cars, roads and expressways, universities and nightclubs? Why are you not typing this rubbish from the village where the British left your grandparents?

You should PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS. If Nigeria has gotten ''much worse'' since the British left, there is a lot you can do to bring back those ''good old days'' of colonial rule back into your life. Why aren't you grasping the opportunity?

How can you be giving a loud round of applause to a nation that is still grappling with building motor-able roads

How many roads, motorable or otherwise, did the British leave you?

How many people could afford cars? Not the super-duper rich?

Did your grandparents own a car? Could they read and write? If the answer is yes, they were the lucky 0.2%

Bottomline: Whatever we have today is 20000 times better than whatever the British left us with from infrastructure to health, and from education to nutrition.

providing jobs for her citizens

Far more jobs have been provided for Nigerians under Nigerian govts than under the British. What was your grandfather's job?

Providing portable drinking water

Far more Nigerians have access to clean, potable drinking water than under the British, taken both as a mass, and as a percentage of the population.

creating an enabling environment for business to thrive

The British created an ''enabling environment'' for business to thrive more than Nigerian govts?

Do you realise that 96% of Nigerians did not see a light bulb before the British left? Did the British even build a national grid in their entire 90 years rule in which they exported natural resources worth hundreds of billions of dollars in today's currency?

No they didn't. So what ''enabling environment'' did the British build? In fact, I put it to you that ZAMFARA STATE has provided more of an ''enabling environment'' for business in the last year than the British govt did in all Nigeria in their 90 year rule.

ensuring safety of lives and properties etc?

Under the British, there was ''safety of lives and properties'' because no one had anything for the other to steal or covet. Poverty was universal. If you like that kind of safety and security, I'm sure you can still find it in certain remote parts of your village, so when are you heading out there?

So Nigeria is moving forward, yet up till now we don't refine our own oil?

We DO refine oil. We do much more. We produce chemicals, tyres, steel, textiles, buses, cars computers. And we are still moving forward. None of these were possible under the British. ''Economic activity'' under them was confined to building ''groundnut pyramids'' in Kano!

If I may ask, what is really working properly in Nigeria? Can you point out one thing that is working the way it should work in Nigeria?

Nigeria is a developing country. In developing countries, especially large, highly populated, diverse ones, it will take a lot of time and effort to get society functioning to optimal levels. This is why for instance Ghana has 24 hrs electricity (according to some), yet India, one of the developing world's most promising and vibrant economies, a nuclear power no less, is still grappling with power cuts, mass poverty, and bad roads. Brazil is filled with slums. Unemployment is a major problem there.

You can name almost any developing nation with over 50 million people, and you will find serious social/economic problems that they are grappling with. In time, these nations, Nigeria including, will stand tall.

ziccoit said:

Tell me you typed that while risen from bed after a deep sleep. There is always a provision for this in national budget. These are displaced people that need to be resettled. Go read about the duties of NEMA.

Dude, what sort of ''resettlement'' are you talking about? You do realise the majority of Nigerians evacuated were business travellers and tourists? Did they not have homes before they left for Egypt? You want govt to lodge them in hotels in Nigeria? Build houses for them? What sort of ''resettlement'' are you referring to??

In fact something is seriously wrong with some of our people.

It is very true. The federal govt sent three jumbo jets to evacuate stranded Nigerians from Egypt.

kalokalo said:

Knowledge is power and wealth. Nigeria and Africa's poverty is simply a poverty of the mind. We lack the knowledge and capacity to add value to the resources we have. So our poverty is simply a value chain problem.

Nations are rich because their citizens add/create value out of what they have or from nothing. That is why they are rich and Africans poor. We can't do that. This is what makes us an exporter of primary products / non-value added products while we import finished products that will cost  a premium due to the value added. Because of this, there is a net outflow of capital out of Africa. Little wonder we are poor and they rich.

Resources do not make a nation rich. It is brains that can add value to resources that creates wealth. That is why UK brands like BAE, BAT, BP, BT, Vodafone, Virgin, Aston Martin, Bentley, Rolls Royce, Barclays, Stanchart Unilever, Shell, Anglo American etc are global corporations that create wealth for the british state (via taxes).

Its not rocket science people!!

My friend stop spewing ignorant rubbish.

It takes a lot more than ''brains'' to become an advanced nation, and limiting your criteria to name-dropping British ''brands'' and quipping like some schoolboy about ''adding value''  as if you've just discovered some great new secret is pretty embarrassing.

The various kingdoms, city-states and villages were not ''always fighting each other'' before the whites arrived.

That's another colonial invention.

yommyuk said:

r u comparing d "Holy Spirit" with d spirits 0f Islam, Ifa,budda and co.

 

In what way exactly do you think they are ''different'' bearing in mind that ALL Consciousness derives from one source?

Let me educate u. Why am I laying the basis of my experience and faith on the Holy Spirit

1. The Holy Spirit is the connection/ bridge to God within me. It is a part of me that is joined with the mind and heart of God.

Fair enough. The problem is that the teachings of your faith, or perhaps your interpretation of the teachings of your faith presupposes that all other experiences of God or Infinite Consciousness, outside of  your faith and creeds are invalid.

See that is a fundamental error that needs correction. It is not unique to christianity. Islam also holds such ideas of inherent exclusivity. The trouble is those creeds, in addition to being plain wrong, heighten human division and conflict, as opposed to bringing us together. Today, the world stands at a precipice, locked in a potentially calamitous confrontation between the two ''major religions'', christianity and islam, two faiths that have done more to bring havoc and destruction to the earth than perhaps any other in human history, owing to their doctrine of exclusivity. ''Our way is the only true way. All others are of the devil''.

It is a severely dysfunctional belief system that, taken to its extreme, can cause serious calamity on this planet.

The vast majority of faiths outside these twin religions subscribe to religious plurality. Any wonder they've collectively shed far less blood than muslims and christians?

2. God uses the Holy Spirit to reveal his truth within me. It is called the power of God within me.

3.  It is also the voice of God within me. This voice guides and directs my steps.

4. Overtime I have learnt to hear, recognise and understand this voice that works within me.

5. I call it the voice of truth.

I think you will find there's more to enjoy out of life when the focus in your head moves from ''me'' to ''us''. Try it. It's hugely liberating.

Lets talk about the so called other religions , ideologies and faith that you are going on about.

This is what makes christianity so ugly to many. You're so brainwashed, you cannot even get yourself to address other religions AS religions.

I orginally come from a faimily of Idol worshippers. I mean proper Idols.

You mean practitioners of traditional religion? Is that what you call ''idol worshippers''?

If they are ''idol worshippers'' so are YOU. Your churches are filled with idols and images of Jesus and his cross. Idols of Mary. Idols of Angel Gabriel etc. You wear an idol, or charm around your neck, which is of a bloodied man dying on a cross. The charm is meant to help you, and protect you. You even engage in ritual cannibalism in your church - drinking the ''blood of Jesus'' and ''eating his flesh''. Something you call ''the Eucharist''.

Do you know where such practices came from?

Do you know that long before chrsitianity emerged, the people of those regions engaged in just such practices in their traditional religions? Do you know that was how it was transcribed to the christian faith?

In fact the entire structure of christian ritual is derived from ''pagan'' practices, from christmas (and the tree) to easter (and the eggs). How then can you sit there, talking about who and who is an ''idol worshipper'' when YOU are the expert at it?

My great grand father was a top notch demi god during his time. My dad was very close to him and I am very close to my dad.  So if you are trying to talk to me about IFA, RITUALS, EwE(Leafs), and ORO (Words), I have been there. I acknowledge that they exisit, are powerful, dangerous, got some elements of good about them but all in all it is VANITY.

Your mere calling it ''vanity'' does not make it so. Say what you dislike about it and we can discuss it. And no, the fact that it is African, while your new god is white or Jewish does not make the latter more valid than the former.

i always affirm that I do not follow man but Christ. wHY? Personal encounter and revelation with Christ. This is not about what I read in a book but a personal experience.

Dude, billions of people have had a completely different experience and theirs' is NO LESS VALID THAN YOURS. Grow up and get that little inconvenient fact into your selfish head.

yommyuk said:

My proof that the bible is the word of God was given to me by the power of the Holy Spirit.

That some entity or presence possesses you in your religious state, does not mean the book you call your ''holy book'' is wholly accurate and not filled with spurious tales and fantasies. You keep mistaking your religious experiences for biblical inerrancy.

Tell me, do you think those deeply into other religions/belief systems do not experience their own version of what you call the ''Holy Spirit''?

Have you ever seen an Ifa worshiper enter a state of delirium wrought by the Ifa ''Holy Spirit''?

What about Shintoists? Buddhists? Have you seen them enter a state of nirvana?

It's not much different from what you call the ''holy spirit''. You do not acknowledge or appreciate these other experiences shared by your fellow humans  because you've been brainwashed to shut out all other experiences but the christian one.

You've been conditioned to regard all non-christian experiences as invalid.

You've been conditioned to have tunnel vision.

This is why you think - falsely - that the ''holy spirit'' is unique to christians.

cap28 said:

I think its disingenous to say that nigeria is at a period where we are working out our intra relationships - how?
Isnt this the same nigeria that has been ruled by the north for 43 years out of its  50 years of supposed independence?

Well, is the north ruling now? In many ways, their power has become increasingly neutralized, or rather, brought to  a more even keel with the other regions.

Isnt this the same nigeria where a terrible civil war was fought which claimed the lives of over 3 million people from one ethnic group?

This can be seen as the price of nationhood, for which Nigeria will not be the first or the last to experience it. The USA and Britain have fought civil wars in their formative years as well. France experienced a bloody revolution. Under Stalin, an estimated 30 million Russians were brutally murdered. Many of the nations you look at and admire today have been through some very serious crises in the past. Nations tend to learn from these experiences. I believe the civil war sensitized Nigerians to the need for greater conflict resolution, which I believe has stood us in good stead today. In the past, incidents like Boko Haram would have been enough to trigger a coup, or even civil war.

Isnt this the same nigeria in which equitable allocation of our natural resources is yet to be acheived hence the uprisings in the niger delta?

Yes, and today there is an amnesty program, and there is major infrastructural development work going on in the area. The region now has 13% derivation, and a member of that region is now the president. If that is not progress, what is?

Isnt this the same nigeria in which religious clashes between christians and muslims continue in the middle belt as we speak?

Yes, but what about the other 99% of the country where people of various ethnicities and religions live in peace?

Do they not count??

EzeUche, do you know I once visited the British museum in Covent Garden, London, and once in, I headed straight to their display of the Benin Bronzes. I met a Nigerian who worked in the underground vaults of the museum, and he said there were 20 times more Benin treasure locked away in the vaults than were on display there. Some had never been displayed since they were looted from Benin by the British in 1897.

The British museum is an amazing place. If you want to see the extent of British plunder in all corners of the world, from China to Africa, and from India to South America, you need look no further than the British museum in Covent Garden.

cap28 said:

I dont agree, we are not where we are supposed to be.  Nigeria can not evolve or develop economically until it frees itself from the artificial contraption created by the british, this contraption does not allow for nigeria to succed as one entity.  Nigeria was created to serve the interests of colonial powers and it is still serving those interests not the interests of the various people within it.  The only beneficiaries of nigeria in its current state are the ruling elite and the foreign multinationals and international financial institutions therefore i dont know how you can say we are where we are supposed to be.

You misread me. We are where we are supposed to be as a nation called Nigeria created by the British from numerous  groups of disparate ethnic and religious entities. We are still at the period where we are working out our intra-relationships as a new nation. It is not impossible for Nigeria to free itself from neo-colonial domination. The nation does not have to split up in order to progress. Splitting up might make progress a bit faster, but staying united can also get us where we want to be. Just might take a bit longer.

seyibrown said:

Jen33. How come the 'stand aloof God's will should now be done on earth?

It doesn't have to be done if we, the aspects of God, don't wish it to be done. It all depends on US. Nobody ''up there'' is going to force us to love one another thereby bringing heaven to earth.

Jen33, Your view of God is not the CHRISTian view

No it is not.

and if you ACTUALLY do believe what you preach that every religion is valid, then you HOLD THE VIEW that Christianity is one of the many ways to God and you are being ignorant or mischievous in challenging Christian beliefs as inaccurate or misleading!

There is no contradiction. As I stated earlier, no religion is 'pefect' or 'accurate'. But christians like you need to know the truth regarding the numerous gross imperfections of your creeds. This does not mean that christians are not connecting with Infinite Consciousness owing to the inaccuracy of their teachings. As earlier stated, it is thought and belief that give power to your enterprise, and to other religious enterprises.

yommyuk's rant exemplifies the ignorance and arrogance of many who subscribe to the christian faith.  You likely haven't got an inkling of who produced that bible, how, where, or why it was produced. Tell us what research you've done into the origins of the New Testament for instance? Do you know the writers of the gospels are unknown?

I repeat, NOBODY KNOWS who wrote the gospels - Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.  The first discovery of these texts was marked X for ''anonymous''. Subsequent renditions of the text then named them ''the gospels according to Mark'' etc.

Now I don't expect you to take this information and do what every normal intelligent human being would do, ie research it and get to the bottom of it.

I fully expect you to act as dumb and ignorant as you've shown, reject the information without investigation, and indulge in yet another masturbatory exercise in tiresome quotes from the little Jewish book that's replaced your brains.

afam4ever said:

So who's fault is it that Nigeria exports less oil.

Probably the 'fault' of NATURE:


UAE oil reserves: 98 billion barrels

Nigeria oil reserves: 34 billion barrels.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves

Dayo1401:

@ jen 33, apparently we have moved forward, thats obvious

question is, with the amount of resources we have, are we near where we should be?,

answer No

To be honest, we are exactly where we are supposed to be. It is the same with every nation. You guys need to understand that it is not just about having bucketloads of natural resources. You also need to develop the social cohesion, the institutions, the political systems, manouvre the various rivalries including religious and ethnic rivalries into forming a cohesive national unit that works in a single direction. To do all these takes several decades. Some would say centuries. Owing to the complexity of our nation, it would take longer to establish these factors than say, a country where everyone is Arab, or French, or English.

So we are exactly where we are supposed to be at this stage of our national evolution.

Dayo1401 said:

am talkin about the whole UAE, which is about 4.5million, i just mentioned Dubai has an example,
and yes, every country has its major city, check out london and england,  what u find in london, u can neva find in any other city in england,

my focus here is the way she used her resources, from just 1971 to date, thats what am saying

Ol boy, UAE is a major oil producer. She has only 4.5 million people. She has larger oil reserves than Nigeria and exports more oil than Nigeria. Here are the figures:

Nigeria (POP 150 MILLION): Barrels of oil per day: 2,211,000

UAE: (POP 4.5 MILLION) Barrels of oil per day: 2,798,000


https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2173rank.html

And you're wondering why Nigeria is not like UAE or Dubai?

Some of you guys really make me laugh.

afam4ever said:

All these things you call achievement applies to every country of the world. People don't walk about buck unclothed like they used to. That's just a natural course.

Absolute nonsense. Nigerians should NOT have been walking around ''buck unclothed'' in the 1950s. Nigerians should not have had ZERO universities in the 1950s. Nigerian literacy rate should NOT have been 7% in the 1950s.

It was not the ''natural course of the world'' at the time for nations to be in that condition. That we have MOVED from that condition is due to the concentrated efforts of successive Nigerian regimes which have embraced education, modernity, and development. Something the British did not do in their 100 years in charge.

dayo1401 said:

u wanna ask your self how old is DubaI UAE, she gained her independence from britain in 1971, its left for u to do the math to figure how old she is,

Dubai is a force to reckon with now, one of the most beautiful cities in the world, pls correct me if i am wrong,

God bless Nigeria

Dubai? Dubai's population is 2 million!

If we had a ''Dubai'' in Nigeria, people like you would be the first to attack it as a ''wasteful venture''. A ''playground for the rich''.

Just look at the criticism Abuja has been subjected to!

Absolutely. Again, if you disagree, why not throw your degree in the bin, return to your village, build a mud hut, walk around barefoot, tap your evening palm wine, and live the ''good life'' of colonial Nigeria? Then you will be rid of the ''horrors'' of bad roads, power failure, crime, inflation, unemployment, etc, the problems of modern Nigeria. You really are free to return to colonial Nigerian conditions even now, so why don't you?? Since ''things were better then'', why not return to that era, as exemplified by your village conditons

afam4ever, so you would swap your grandparents or great-grandparents mud hut for your Lagos or Enugu flat?

You would swap your current enlightenment, literacy, and qualifications for your grandparents' illiteracy and destitution? You're welcome to return to 1950s Nigeria. Tell me, did your grandparents see a lightbulb before independence? If they were like 99.5% of Nigerians the answer would be an emphatic NO. Why? Because the British did not actually construct a national grid such as we have today. Electricity was restricted to the GRAs were the British lived.


You're welcome to return to THAT Nigeria. Just don't think of dragging the rest of us back with you!

I'd say we HAVE achieved something meaningful in the last 50 years. Put aside the garbage you read elsewhere - our standard of living has improved DRASTICALLY from the days of colonialism. Infant mortality rates have been halved, malnutrition rates have been cut by at least 2/3rds. We have electricity, no matter how intermittent. We have at least 50 times more kilometres of roads than we did before independence. The majority of our people are literate. We have some of the best educated people in the world who identify themselves as Nigerians. We have the largest middle class on the African continent. We produce steel, computers, and have recently begun manufacturing cars and buses. From zero universities in 1960 we now have 100. We actually have a future, as much of the groundwork has been laid, especially via the mass education promoted by post-colonial Nigerian governments.

At independence, 93% of the country was illiterate, (that figure is 25% today) and most walked around barefoot. Cars were only for the super rich. The thriving metropolis we have today - Lagos, Port Harcourt, Abuja, Calabar, Kaduna etc were all either non existent or were just sleepy provincial towns with a handful of tarred roads and limited commerce.

So we have come a long way.

That is no mean feat for a nation that's just 50. While we can complain about the speed of progress, we cannot honestly claim we have achieved ''nothing'' since independence.

Please do not mention any of these ''Asian Tigers''. They received special funding, investment, trade concessions, and market access to the west that African countries can only dream of.

These were deliberately applied by the western powers in their bid to erect in Asia capitalist bulwarks against communism after WW2.

This applies to every last one of the Asian ''Tigers''. Those places were poorer, more corrupt and more tyrannical than anywhere in Africa before western policy transformed the region.

The UK has been independent for several hundred years. They've had more TIME to direct their affairs. That is a major reason they have solved some of their most pressing social problems.

But, as a reading of the link below shows, they similarly experienced several decades of extreme poverty and public corruption before they got to where they are today.

People died of hunger in the streets, and froze to death in their homes, while edifices like Buckingham Palace, Wembley Stadium, and the Houses of Parliament were being constructed with public funds. The rich lived very lavishly. The poor majority lived a wretched, miserable existence.  It took several decades of agitation for these problems to be addressed.

Nigeria is only 50 years old. I'm sure in time, we will solve our own social problems as well.


The old London of poverty, deprivation and corruption:

http://www.portcities.org.uk/london/server/show/ConNarrative.78/Social-conditions-in-the-19thcentury-port.html

seyibrown said:

How much help does the 'departed spirit' of a murderer/despoiler executed by the state for his crimes give to the family/relatives he shamed with his behaviour while on earth? Does he/she protect them from murderers/rapists like him or her?

No soul is inherently evil. Some near-death experiencers have reported that every soul at core is pure and good. It is the Illusion of separateness which causes what we call ''evil''.

Every soul at some point in its evolution (part of which may involve several human life cycles) becomes rid of that Illusion, and becomes ''whole'' again. At one with ''God''.

EVERY SOUL.

Therefore, that a man was a murderer on earth does not mean his soul ceases to evolve beyond that point. A great part of the illusion is promoted and reinforced by our human system's education, media, religions, and cultural environment. Upon death, a greater CLARITY and AWARENESS is attained by the soul.

It loses the earthly insecurities and anxieties (eg greed, fear, egocentrism) that act as an impulse for ''evil''.

and why, seeing as your God does not really care that his creation murder one other?

We have the capacity to end all murder and injustice tomorrow if we so wish. We are God. Did it occur to you that we don't do this because we don't want to? The core reason is fear. Fear of poverty, fear of ridicule, fear of losing face, fear of death, fear, fear, fear. All fear is caused by ignorance of our true nature. Ignorance of our true nature is a temporal illusion deliberately orchestrated by God to make the great cosmic game called Creation, more meaningful.

If our spirit guides/departed relatives are aspects of God and God does not interact with his creation, how exactly do these 'aspects' of your 'stand aloof and do nothing God' help/interact with God's creation?

Oh to the extent that human beings exist on this earth then yes, as aspects of God, WE are the ones carrying the torch as it were. Our collective task is to recreate heaven on the physical earth plane. (Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven). It is not for us to look ''up there'' to GOD. It is God that has placed US here and who ''looks up to us'' to bring heaven to earth. Bring the Unconditional Love and knowledge that reigns in heaven, to earth.

How can man be accountable to the state but not accountable to the Creator of the creators of the state?

We are accountable to God. But not in the way you think. As aspects of God, we are meant to be accountable to ourselves.

We will be the first to feel the effects of our wrongs on others. When we die, we get a Life Review in our soul/spirit state, in which our actions in this earth life are observed in a rapid panorama. We feel the exact emotions felt by those we wronged. We regret our actions. We judge ourselves. A separate being known as God does not judge us. We, as aspects of God, judge ourselves, in the new clarity and awareness achieved by human ''death''.

It is said to be the most painful experience for a soul to see, feel, and weigh the effects of its negative actions on others. The offending soul feels deeply obliged to make amends for every breach, and finds a way to do so. Judgement comes from within because the kingdom of God is within you.

seyibrown said

Given your representation above, allow me to say then that YOUR CLAIMS of what GOD CANNOT POSSIBLY DO ARE BASELESS AND WITHOUT FOUNDATION.   . . . . and you still forgot to introduce me to this YOUR 'ALOOF, COULDN'T CARE LESS' GOD AND/OR CREATOR! You already know that I worship the God you call a Jewish deity WHO IS FOR HIS PEOPLE/CREATION! Tell me more about this your God/creator who doesn't give a hoot about you, what you do, what you don't do and what is done to you  . . . . but then there would be know point associating with him 'cos he doesn't want/require a relationship with you 'cos he is just like a mother who abandons her children completely after giving birth to them!

You don't understand who we are or why we are here. That's your first problem. We really are powerful immortal spirits, who are only experiencing a brief ''life'' as physical ''human beings'' through our own initial volition and choice as spirit entities or souls.

We are not our bodies. Our bodies are vehicles that we, as souls need to interract effectively with this dimension or plane of existence. Life exists on a great many dimensions, many even sharing our own space.

''Heaven'' is one of those dimensions or vibrational fields. In fact there are said to be MANY ''heavens''. We transit to ''heaven'' when our bodies expire or ''die''. The less emotional baggage and guilt we carry, the quicker the transition. There is nothing any human needs to be afraid of because this is just an experience, a game in fact, seen from the perspective of ultimate reality, to which we belong.

Now, against this background, WHY do you need to have a God who dictates everything in your human life? He doesn't dictate to souls in the spirit world, so why would he in the physical?

We really are FREE to do as we wish. We are FREE to build our own civilizations, our own moral codes, our own ways of doing things. Sure we can call on God for ''protection'' and ''help'' as humans - but if we do get this help and protection from 'above', it is more likely emanating from our spirit guides (chi), or even from departed relatives!

Far from being ''dead'', they are very much ALIVE in the ''spirit world'', and they have the power to project their thoughts to your benefit.

Like us, they are all aspects of ''God'', so  there's far more to ''God'' than just a single entity sitting on some ''throne''. WE OURSELVES are aspects of God.

God is really a Single Conciousness that has divided itself into billions of units of consciousness we call souls. Some of those units operate under the ILLUSION of ''separateness'' or ''individuality''. The greater the ILLUSION the more ''evil'' is created by the perceiver. The less the ILLUSION the more ''good'' is created. Good and evil are simply the two extremes of knowledge and ignorance.

God does not punish you for ignorance. God in fact created the conditions for that ignorance among some souls. Why then would he ''punish'' them, in a ''burning furnace'' no less? Why would God destroy Himself?? Is God at war with Himself? God is basically experiencing life via each and every one of us, his ''creation''.

Your neighbour is GOD made manifest in a single conscious unit that is at once a part of the whole, AND the whole. If you're searching for God, you need look no further than your own self and all expressions of life around you this very moment. (The kingdom of God is within you)

Against this background of knowledge, you lose the need to look up to a God to ''protect you''. Because YOU are an aspect of God, you can actually protect yourself and your loved ones using the power of thought and belief. Why do you think some people can go through an operation without anasthesia?

Some people can walk on a bed of fire and not a single part of their body gets burnt. These feats are not ''miracles'', nor are they of ''the devil''. They are executed by people who have been trained to project their thought. Thought creates reality. God has ALREADY made you powerful enough to confront anything the earth has to offer. You only need to grasp that power. This of course can be achieved using the medium of religion or any other medium, such as meditation. It is not the vehicle used, or the name given to it that counts. It is the BELIEF and the actual effort made to reach out to Infinite Consciousness, using the power of Thought and Belief, that gets results.

All religions are valid. None are ''accurate'' or ''perfect''. All have the capacity to connect to Infinite Consciousness.

If you worshiped a log of wood and BELIEVED it was ''God'', THAT LOG OF WOOD will BECOME your God, and SERVE YOU.

God does not mind this because THAT LOG OF WOOD is an ASPECT of God!

That log of wood is every bit as much ''the son of God'' as is Jesus (assuming he actually existed).

Everything IS.

If you created an ant, and the ant decided to worship your nails, or your fingers, would you get angry and ''punish'' the ant? Torture it forever in hellfire? Make it scream in agony for eternity?

That would be absolutely crazy!

The ant is worshipping the part of YOU that it can identify easily with its limited senses.

Thus the entire premise for the exclusivity clause in modern religions like christianity and islam is false.

The idea that there is only ''one valid religion'', is false, and designed to control and dominate the thoughts of followers, and to divide human beings one from the other, for the material benefit of a few.

$$Rhino said:

heaven looks like all u ever imagine but couldnt have, city with streets of gold, i am only worried about all dem nigros using all the gold to lace their teeth, but heaven will be sweet, imagine a world of no sikcness, to stealing, no hatred, no fighting, bickering, no poverty, no needs, just happiness and worshipping all day and all night.

You are not obliged to ''worship'' anyone in heaven. There's real freedom there, and you'll quickly find that many ideas you learnt as a human about ''God'' are quite false.

seyibrown said:

Why not tell us, Jen33, about the god that you know is the true God or whether you don't believe in God at all? Introduce 'your' God that is not the 'jewish deity' to us or your creator if you have do not believe in God!

The Creator cannot possibly be a Jewish deity or Jewish god. Neither can He have a group of ''chosen people'', such as the Jews, or anyone else. Your imported Jewish religion teaches you that the Creator is parochial, moody, jealous, gets angry, regrets his actions, orders massacres, ra-pe, and looting, loves the smell of burning flesh, and has a furnace prepared for roasting alive ''forever'' billions of people who ''refused to worship him''.

It's all there in that thing you call your ''holy'' book.

Your religion misrepresents and makes a caricature of the Creator by falsely attributing to him qualities of debased entities.

ALL traditional pre-christian and non-christian religions and philosophies regard the Creator as NOTHING like what is represented in the Jewish bible.

The Creator is known to be Aloof. He does NOT require ''worship''. He does not ''punish'' anyone or send people to ''hell''. He has no specially ''chosen people''. We are already imbued with the knowledge of good and evil. As souls emanating from this Source, We are BORN with that knowledge. We are here temporarily as ''humans'' to use that knowledge for good or for ill, and return back to the spirit world, our true home. We are ALL saved. Always have been and always will be. Nobody is obliged to ''follow Christ'', or to be ''born again'', or even to be religious, to transit to the next life.

The Source of all life, manifested as a single intelligent entity has NEVER interacted with any human in this world in a manner that is even remotely verifiable, and has NOT ''inspired'' any men to write ''holy books'', any more than He ''inspired'' me to type this post.

ALL CLAIMS made to that effect ARE BASELESS and WITHOUT FOUNDATION.