₦airaland Forum

olabowale:
@M_Nwankwo:
My main man, thanks. Abdrushin, was some arab guy. He must have lacked some direction to his Arabic Identity.

@olabowale
You are once again very wrong in your claim that Abd-ru-shin was some arab guy.

Abd-ru-shin was a German not some arab guy.

Please get your facts right in-order not to missinform people and lead them astray.

olabowale:
@Justcool:« #81 on: Yesterday at 10:55:27 PM »
Alhamdulillah. Justcool, when God the Almighty Allah was going to bring me victory, he made you write down the parts that I enboldened. The case of saying Jesus is son of God is enough as my proof. You got it from your grail message, didn't you?

I do not have to see a filt, (Human excrement), before I know am near an open sewer, a treatment plant or just Shalanga, Yiani, Shosho, Sarabe, etc (courtesy of old Fela song lyrics). The stench is enough.

I have read enough from what M_Nwankwo put forward, and then people like you. You guys copy the ideas in the Bible about Jesus and God. Except that you deny, comfortably that God does not punish, since you consider punishment as evil thing.

@Olabowale
In your initial false acaccusations to which I replied  you said:

olabowale: @KunleOshob and others: It is grail message that you people will now find guidance? There is no true guidance in Bible and definitely, it is even worse in the grail message (unfortunately I tend to want to call it gray flannel, but I am fighting the urge, hard). This grail message is the stepping stone to occultizm, if not it already. Its a convolution of idea that centres not on God Almighty, but denial of His true essence. It is claiming that God will never punish. That will be wrong.

Tell me how does the fact that the Grail Message stated that Jesus is the son of God justfy your above claims. How does this fact(that the Grail Message stated that Jesus is the son of God) justify your accusing the Grail Message of these:
(1) "There is no true guidance in Bible and definitely, it is even worse in the grail message (unfortunately I tend to want  to call it gray flannel, but I am fighting the urge, hard)."
(2) "This grail message is the stepping stone to occultizm, if not it already."
(3) "Its a convolution of idea that centres not on God Almighty, but denial of His true essence."

All these claims and acussations that you made are completely false. You claim that you got these false impression from m_nwankwo's and mine's posts.

Firstly, I challenge your to provide posts where m_nwankwo and I made such claims

Secondly, even if we did, I have always stated at the end of my explanations that what I explain are my personal perception of the Grail message. My personal perception could be wrong and the Grail Message should not be judged based on just my perception of it. Read it your self and evaluate it based on your own perception.

Thanks


The words in red are Olabowale's words and not mine.

olabowale:
@KunleOshob and others: It is grail message that you people will now find guidance? There is no true guidance in Bible and definitely, it is even worse in the grail message (unfortunately I tend to want to call it gray flannel, but I am fighting the urge, hard). This grail message is the stepping stone to occultizm, if not it already. Its a convolution of idea that centres not on God Almighty, but denial of His true essence. It is claiming that God will never punish. That will be wrong.

@Olabowale
All that you claimed above are false, born out of your imagination and hatred. Can you provide just one verse from the Grail Message that authenticates your claims?
Why do you fight against, or make allegations against a book that you have not read??
Your claims sound like the outrageous outcry of the masses against Jesus the son of God. The masses shouted "Crucify Him! Crucify Him!" eventhough none could provide any real evidence that Jesus ever did wrong.

My advice to you is this:
Civilized people don't just join the masses, civilized people examine issues by themselves and then make an informed decision based on their personal examination. Any claim and accusation based on hearsay is nothing but dishonesty or false accusation.
Strive to become honest in all your dealings!

Thanks and remain blessed.

tonyjobs:
Dear Nairalanders,

Am very a happy to come across an intresting topic like this, infact few weeks before this time, i was already thinking of launching this kind of discussion with fellow poster about this wonderful  message-In The Light of Truth The Grail message.

I have thoroughly examine it, all i could found is nothing but the TRUTH and it cut across all religion.

Because we are leaving in a world that is engulfed with Darkness, it is a bit difficult for  some people to recognise TRUTH, But for anyone who is seriuosly seeking and still carrying little spark of Light inside of him/her, it will not be difficult for such to quickly recognise it.

When  i was reading rotimy's posting, something strike me! I remembered Saul the persecutor of the TRUTH in the Bible who Later Became Apostle Paul after encountering JESUS CHRIST.

I believe that at the appointed time He will come to recognition.

I wish you the strength

@tonyjobs
Wellcome to this thread. It was really nice reading your post.
I wish you strength too, and remain blessed.

huxley:
Am afraid, I think you are wrong again. Even on the basic definition of knowledge (which is true and justified belief or assertion) you are wrong. So until a "fact" is considered true and justified it is not knowledge.

If on a hunch something or some proposition is turns out right , that does not constitute knowledge. Example, Are there an even or an odd number of stars in the universe? We know one of these position is right, but we have no knowledge about that. None of these position can be justified.

So if a child has a hunch about god, which they will have learnt from their community, that does not constitute knowledge of god.

@huxely,
The above have absolutely nothing with what I wrote. I never defined knowledge as "True and justified belief," those are your words not mine.
You smartly avoided going into my explanations because you cannot deny the fact that:
(1) At a certain age (usually around 18) every individual begins to seriously question the origin of life and existence, even if the person has never been taught about God.
(2) Curiosity always precedes knowledge. Sometimes curiosity arises from a knowledge deep within the subconscious mind. By questioning one gradually deciphers this knowledge that lies hidden his subconscious mind or the back brain.

Don't avoid issues!

huxley:
TO ask who created everything is not to an acknowledge of god, is it. The child id merely asking exploratory questions about nature.

@huxley
Pardon me!! But do I have to explain everything to you.
Cant you see the relationship between curiosity(questioning), knowledge, and belief or conviction. Haven't you ever taken any psychology class?

Curiosity is a desire for knowledge, and out of knowledge comes belief or conviction.

Should I explain further? Okay, I will:
One who is curious of something shows that he desires the knowledge of that particular thing and also that he has the ability to posses that knowledge.
Sometimes questions arise out of a knowledge that we have, slumbering, inside us. By questioning, we awaken this knowledge that is already inside us but only slumbering.
There is no knowledge that questioning did not precede. And their is no belief or conviction that knowledge did not precede.
Therefore, sometimes, for one to question something, means that he already posses the knowledge but have not yet fatformed or deciphered it. By questioning he will gradually decipher the knowledge that already lies in his subconscious mind.

I hope this is clear enough. I can go further if you want.

[Quote author=KunleOshob]
@topic
on the contrary every one is born to acknowledge and believe in the existence of a supreme being (GOD) and that is why over 95% of the world's population believe in th existence of God leaving only a very inconsequential less than 5% hallucinating within themselves about the possibility of the non existence of god  which in it self sounds absolutely insane. I can accept if a man does not believe in a particular religion or all the various religions, but when a man says there is no God because he as a problem with a particular religion or belief system, such a person needs to be seriously examined.[/quote]@KunleOshob
You are very correct.
Belief in the existence or the supreme creator is natural with humans. Even a child that was never taught of God, once the child reaches a certain age, he or she will start asking questions like: "who created everything?" "How did the world came in to being?" and before you knew it he will soon find a theory that answers his questions or keeps his mind at rest.
This desire to know, to question and to investigate is a gift in humans, or a product of the human spirit which animals do not posses. Hence animals do not ask such questions or wonder about the origin of their life. They lack the ability to comprehend such knowledge, which only the spirit can comprehend.
This Spirit in humans is a gift from the Almighty; it is the breath of God in man. It is what makes us humans; it is the real man himself.

huxley:
Laughing at my views does not make yours right, does it. Since when did mockery become a valid method of intellectual argumentation?

You said my understanding of the three omni's are different from your. Can you act maturely and offer what you understand by these words?

For your arguments to stand you have to offer the following;

1) Provide evidence and reasons why free-will trumps the security from diseases, natural disasters to the extend that god would left millions of his beloved children perish for the price of being able to make one's own decisions

2) If god had created us without free-will and made the knowledge of free-will unattainable to us, we would never have known we were missing free-will. Just like an earthling has no experience of life in another universe, we do not miss the experience of life in a different universe.

3) Do non-humans have free-will? How do you explain diseases, death and natural disasters many billions of years before human came onto the scene?

Waiting with bated breath for your answers, or is it too much to ask?

@huxely
First of all let me apologize for my humour which you perceived as mockery. I didn't intend to muck you; I only wanted to bring in humour and light-heartedness in this thread that was getting very serious. Believe me, in as much as I totally do not agree with you, I still respect your opinions.

About your questions.
The answers are very simple. I can answer all the questions that you presented above, however the answer will take us into the spiritual realm. The solution for your puzzle is easily found if one considers everything from the spiritual perspective. In this spiritual perspective also lies the purpose of the existence of the physical world, the purpose of man's existence on earth, and the purpose of animals' existence on earth. And I know that you don't believe in anything non-physical. Therefore there is no use explaining to you. You will probably call my explanations a fairy tale.

If all the answers to your questions above could be found on the physical realm. Then I would have gladly explained to you, and in a language(scientific language) that you will understand. But like I said earlier, the solution to your puzzle lie in the spiritual realm, where all solutions to secrets of life and existence also lie.

If only you believe in the spiritual, or if only you make use of your spiritual perceptive ability, I would have gladly explained. But I respect your believe in only physical things which science can investigate, and I will not bore you with things beyond your realm of operation.

I respect your views and thanks.

@Olabowale
Thanks for your long post. I think that we have expressed our views enough on the issue. There is nothing more that I can say that can convince you. Neither can you say anything that will change my mind. Therefore all I can say to you now is that I wish you well on your path to God and thanks for sharing your opinion.

However, in your reply, you wondered "if I was a christian" and wish to clarify that. If by "a Christian" you mean "a follower of Jesus Christ," then you are right; but if by a Christian you mean " a church goer or a religious person" then you are wrong.
I do not belong to any religion. I simply live by the TRUTH. I found the TRUTH in the Grail Message, and with all my strength, I live by IT. But I am not religious, neither do I belong to any church.

About the Palestine and the Israelites. I do not know which side is right or which side is wrong. On this issue I cannot judge. But I guaranty you that which ever side is wrong will definitely reap their evil. Which ever side is right, if they pray for God's help and wait convincingly for HIS deliverance, then one day another Moses or deliverer will be sent to them. But from what I see on the news neither side is actually waiting for God. They take the laws into their own hands, by suicide bombings and etc. Both side have forgotten the Torah words, "Vengeance is Mine." The ancient Israelites did not do suicide bombings and etc to the ancient Egyptians.
However, I bass my knowledge of their actions on what I see on the news, and I know that the media seldom reflect the Truth.
Therefore be rest assured, God has no religion, neither does HE have a race or nationality. He never plays favoritism. He laws will definitely give each people what they have sown in the past. The captives will be freed, and the captors will be punished.

I understand that you don't want me to say "remain blessed" to you any more. Thanks for letting me know that, and I apologise for addressing you as such in the past.

Therefor I will only say "Thanks"


@littleb
I read you last post and thanks for it. However, I think I have said enough on the issue, I see that you have made up your mind as I have made up mine. Only experiencing can change our minds.
Therefore all I wish to say to you is thanks for sharing your views. I wish you well. I don't know if you find, "remain blessed" offensive, therefore I will not say that to you my friend. Happy cheers


@huxely
Ha ha ha ha ha I couldn't stop laughing after reading your last post. (Please don't take this as mockery)
Obviously your definition of omnipotence, omniscience and omnibenevolence are very different from mine. The gift of free will is part of Gods omnibenevolence. But this gift requires that you let the creature decide what to do. If He gives us free will and then also knows exactly what we will do with it, then this is not free will. In that case we were predestined, but this is not so; we chose our own destiny. Therefore God does not know before hand what will will do, that's why He sends prophets to warn us to do the right thing.
I know you will say: "If so then He doesn't know everything and therefore He is not omniscience." But His omniscience lies in the fact that he knows the consequence of all our decisions.
Therefore add "free will" to your equation and you will see the solution. The cause of all evil lies in man ability to decide--free will-- which man has used wrongly.
Now you will ask. "why did God give man free will?" But here is the answer: without free will we will not be humans. Free will is an intergal part of the human spirit. It is what makes man a man.

However, thanks for sharing your opinion.

@ seeklove,
My dear friend thanks. Remain blessed.

With this I depart from this thread. However, I will answer any question that may have arisen from any of my posts in this thread.

Dear littleb
I have said all I can in my earlier post(my first post on this thread) on the issue of "who created evil and death as a natural process. I stand by my word which none have been able to discredit.
However, I only wish to clarify certain misconceptions that might have arisen from that post.

littleb:
@justcool
Dear Justcool, you are still not getting it. This is not the point of argument, LOVE and JUSTICE are not even created objects. They are God attributes. In Islam we say Al-Wadud(God of Love) and Al-Adl(the just) and that of creator is Al-Khaliq. No one bear such attributes saves God. If you are talking of His love, kind and just it's incomparable. Then creator, who has the capacity to create, tell me, nobody except Him. To your attention. Trials is from God which can be of any form. Can you read the story of Job and see what you can draw from it. If someone eat poison or intoxicate himself and became ill or mental disorder. It is a circumstance which God has forewarn us. Nevertheless, one circumstance will lead us to our destiny. And that's why prayer and steadfast is needed in order to pass all these tests. Have you ever seen a colapse building in which everybody in there died except an infant who does not even know how to protect himself or an accident. All these are circumstances of trails(dieases or poverty) which doesn't depends whether you know God or not, you will pass only if you are steadfast and prayerful. Above all, all these occurrences are from GOD, circumstances differ. THE CREATOR.

I never said that  were created. Olabowale said that diseases and death are God's "checks and balances," I corrected him by saying that LOVE and JUSTICE are God's "checks and ballaces."  LOVE and JUSTICE are to be found in all the laws of God. And these laws operate in all parts of creation. Thus LOVE and JUSTICE are to be found in all creation, or in all the worlds that God created. By this I do not mean that man posses LOVE and JUSTICE like God. Man can mature to reflect God's LOVE and JUSTICE, but he can never become LOVE and JUSTICE like God. Neither can man give as much LOVE and JUSTICE as God. Thus man's love and justice at best can only be reflection or a step-down of God's LOVE and JUSTICE. Just as man can never posses PURITY which is a divine attribute, at his best man can only posses reflection a step-down or PURITY which is chastity. The same is applicable with the TRUTH. God alone is PURITY, LOVE, and JUSTICE; and HE alone is the living TRUTH.

One of the laws of God, "The law of reciprocal action" in its operation gives everybody back what he/she has sown in the past. This law is LOVE and JUSTICE, it can only help and bless us, provided that we sow only good seeds. This law operates in all planes of creation, giving creatures what they had sown in the past. It is a blessing to the creature,
If you sow corn, you will only reap corn. If you sow kindness, you will only reap kindness. This is LOVE and JUSTICE.
But man sowed evil thoughts, words and actions, and thats why today man is reaping so much evil. If man repents and starts doing only good deeds then one day he will have only good to reap; but if he continues in doing evil, he will remain bound to evil and will be destroyed in the end. By destruction, I don't mean physical death but spiritual death. Hence, "the wages of sin is death."

If a building collapses then those under it who has not sown such evil in the past will be saved. Because the law is that "you reap what you have sown," thereofore if you have not sown evil, even in the midst of evil you will not reap evil. Only men act arbitrarily,(like killing innocent people and etc) the laws of God will never kill an innocent person; neither will the laws of God ever bring sorrow to innocent person. This is why in natural disasters innocent people and animals are speared. Have you ever wondered why no animal was killed in the Tsunami? The animals left the area before it happened.


Like I explained to olabowale,
"If a child is killed in such natural disasters it does not mean that God kills innocent children. So many things could be the reason:
(1) Maybe the child is suffering for a guilt it acquired in its past life(previous incarnation).
(2) It could also be as a result of negligence. ie if the child is innocent, the caretaker could be warned either in a dream or by mere intuitive perception, to move the child from that location. But if the caretaker(Parents or maid) neglects this warning or makes it impossible to perceive this warning, then he/she would not move the child before the disaster. In such a case, the disaster that befalls the child is not God's intention, neither is it due to child's guilt, but due to the negligence of the child's caretaker. We see this in the Bible too: According to the Bible, Joseph and Mary were warned, by an angel in a dream, to flee to Egypt for the sake of Jesus. Had they not heeded this warning, then Herold could have succeeded in killing Jesus prematurely.
(3) It could be a mission karma--whereby a soul decides to incarnate and suffer certain things to help men recognise the evil of wrong doing. ie, parents with AIDS seeing their children suffering from AIDS, this will increase their sorrow, making them vow never to be promiscuous again or never to use drugs again. This way through a "mission karma" the child helps its parents repent. In this case the child took it upon himself to incarnate and suffer the disease of it's parents in-order to help the parents advance.

In whatever case it may be, it is never the fault of God; neither is evil ever willed by God. God is incapable of evil. The fault and the cause of evil is always with man."

Even in the midst of suffering evil, if we remain steadfast and remain righteous the evil will fall away from us because it can no longer find a homogeneous ground in us. Thus we should suffer any evil that befalls us calmly and not accuse God of creating this evil. If we recognise why we are suffering and vow with all our strength never to sin again, we will be forgiven. This is the lesson behind the story of Job who in the midst of all suffering refused to curse God or call God the creator of evil, like many do in this thread.

I have witnessed a real life story similar to that of Job. Perhaps later I can share it with you if you want to listen.

Thanks and remain blessed.

@ olabowale

With all due respect. After reading your replies to my earlier post, I felt that there is no need to give you further clarification on the issue of " who created evil, and death as a result of disease."  My post speaks for itself, all the questions you raised after reading my post have already been answered in my post. And if after reading my earlier post, you still don't get it, then I can't help you.

However, in your reply you raised other issues: "artificial insemination or test tube babies," you made some claims about this process which might confuse readers. I have witnessed in-vitro fertilization and artificial insemination and I always feel obliged to educate pople about the process which people attribute so much fantasy to.

olabowale:
We may think that birth will have to come through the birth canal, but it may not be 100% true. I read yesterday, that the test tube baby is now 30 years old. I do not remember that he was concieved or birthed in the normal way that most children are, today. Therefore your thinking that death is not a disease is based on your limited knowledge. The same limited knowledge a man who lived 2000 years ago would have if he was to be told that there would be a group of children that will be developed outside the mother's womb!

In-vitro fertilization and artificial insemination does not imply that the child will not be born through the birth carnal. So many women, after in-vitro fertilization and artificial insemination still give birth to the baby through the birth carnal. Even in some normal conceptions, the baby is delivered by C-section. Doctors only recommend C-section when the woman's birth carnal is small and when the child is too big.
Therefore a test tube baby can be born the normal way(Virginal birth). The only difference between a test tube baby and a normal baby is that in the case of a test tube baby, the conception is done outside the womb, in a test tube. And once conception is achieved, the embryo is transfered into the womb of a woman, who will give birth to the child after nine to ten months. People erroneously think that a test tube baby grows in the test tube.
No child has ever developed, from embryo to infant, outside the womb!

olabowale:
The same limited knowledge that many of mankind have when they find a child being produced without the aid of a sexual relationship, where the male semen is discharge. This child is in time mislabelled and given titles that does not due to him. Just imagine how easy is it therefore for man to mislabel death as not a disease when it actually has a detrimental effect on those who catch it! No one who has it can tell you his condition, yet we can not assertain that he can not hear us and also feel external and internal stimuli.

Here again you are wrong. Even in in-vitro fertilization and artificial insemination, the sperm and the egg are still needed for conception. Thus a sexual relationship(the coming together of both sexes discharge) is still needed. In in-vitro fertilization, eggs are extracted from the mother, while the father donates the sperm, both the eggs and the sperm are put together in a test tube in-order to allow fertilization. In artificial insemination the sperm are artificially inseminated into the eggs. Therefore you can't have a pregnancy without the male discharge(sperm or semen).


I will also like to clarify the issue of "God punishing the Egyptians" about which you said:

olabowale:
Your assumption that God did not create disease shows that you do not understand the complete power of God. To you God is Love and all that is good. But does He not punish? Will He not punish the evil doers? If you read the Jewish Torah, one sees how God, through many plagues weakened Pharaoh and the Egyptian people. When they do not obey His commands, He finally destroyed their leadership and the military might that it had. We therefore read how city states and people on the way to "THe promised land," were destroyed.

One can easily see what brought the disasters that vissited Egypt. Egypt enslaved Israel and treated them like animals. This is the bad fruit that Egypt sow, and the reciprocal effect of it, magnified by the prayers of the innocent Israelites, came down heavily on the Egyptians.  They received the very thing they sowed in the past--just as they killed Israelites first borns, their first borns were killed too and etc.
Out of the prayers of the Israelites, Moses was sent by God, Moses being a messenger, by his nature could channel the energies of the JUSTICE of God, just like a lens channels the heat of the sun. Through Moses, God's JUSTICE, who was on earth at that time, channeled IT's energy to the Egyptians hence the reciprocal energy that the Egyptians accumulated speeded up and enunleashed back on them.
Thus one can say that it was the Egyptians that punished themselves, they only reaped what they sowed. Had they not enslaved the Jews, had they sown kindness, then the ten plagues would not have vissited them.
In this we also see the JUSTICE of God in It's working--It freed the Jews who had always hoped and prayed that God would deliver them. The reciprocal affect of their prayers, and their faith in God; or as an answer to their faithful prayers, God sent them Moses, who could channel the energy from the JUSTICE of God and use it to free the Israelites. Moses was also given powers from the JUSTICE of God, and with the help of the invisible servants of God, he(Moses) could achieve so much, ie separating the sea and etc. Through Moses, God also gave the Isrealites His laws(the ten commandments).

Here once again we see only LOVE and JUSTICE in the workings of God.

The evil that vissited the Egyptians was not created by God, it originated from the Egyptians themselves who were very wicked at that time. This is the working of the law of reciprocal action.

About the alleged innocent Egyptian children that perished during the ten plagues:
If a child is killed in such natural disasters it does not mean that God kills innocent children. So many things could be the reason:
(1) Maybe the child is suffering for a guilt it acquired in its past life(previous incarnation).
(2) It could also be as a result of negligence. ie if the child is innocent, the caretaker could be warned either in a dream or by mere intuitive perception, to move the child from that location. But if the caretaker(Parents or maid) neglects this warning or makes it impossible to perceive this warning, then he/she would not move the child before the disaster. In such a case, the disaster that befalls the child is not God's intention, neither is it due to child's guilt, but due to the negligence of the child's caretaker. We see this in the Bible too: According to the Bible, Joseph and Mary were warned, by an angel in a dream, to flee to Egypt for the sake of Jesus. Had they not heeded this warning, then Herold could have succeeded in killing Jesus prematurely.
(3) It could be a mission karma--whereby a soul decides to incarnate and suffer certain things to help men recognise the evil of wrong doing. ie, parents with AIDS seeing their children suffering from AIDS, this will increase their sorrow, making them vow never to be promiscuous again or never to use drugs again. This way through a "mission karma" the child helps its parents repent. In this case the child took it upon himself to incarnate and suffer the disease of it's parents in-order to help the parents advance.

In whatever case it may be, it is never the fault of God; neither is evil ever willed by God. God is incapable of evil. The fault and the cause of evil is always with man.


Thanks and remain blessed

@ Huxley
There is nothing that I can add. m_nwankwo has answered your question. I completely agree with m_nwankwo. I will only give crude analogies for the sake of understanding:

(1)If I crash my car against a wall. Due to the impact, the car will compress against me and kill me.
Would I accuse the car maker of building a killing machine?

(2)If I let my clothings get so dirty by dragging it into gutter and flit. And when I catch a skin disease by wearing such a dirty cloth.
Would I accuse the tailor of making a disease-ridden cloth?

(3)If I put jet-engine oil in my car instead of the specified gasoline, when I start the car, it might explode and kill me.
Would I accuse the car maker of building an explosive?

Our physical bodies is like a cloth that the tailor gave us. It only serves us if we take care of it the way the tailor advises us to take car of it. If neglected it will injure and deter our progress. The imperfections and mutations of the physical body should not be attributed to the creator, but to man who has misused his body and who has not followed the creators advise on how to take care of the body.

I found it suprising that one, like you who believes in science can ask such questions. Even science has acknowledged the harm that man does continuously to ho himself and his environment, by his unnatural way of living. Who is polluting the atmosphere? who builds nuclear and atomic bombs? who is responsible for the depletion of the ozone layer?
Eventhough our pollution has affected every living creature, animals who do not abuse their bodies like man does, seldom have such birth defects. Animals that men don't interfere with are the healthiest animals today. When was the last time you saw a cancer-stricken scorpion? Or a scorpion with birth defects? Or a snake with diabetes.

How can the human body function the way God designed it when it lives in an environment so much polluted? Apart from polluting the environment, man separates himself from nature. The creator placed us in nature for our own good. Through nature, He takes care of us, He gives us the right food for our bodies, He gives us the right air. But rather than greatfully accepting these wonderfull gifts with humility, we separated ourselves from nature, we make artificial foods preserved with dangerous chemicals, we inhale tobacco rather the air. And when our body malfunctions, we blame the creator!

The igbos have a saying: " A infant who refuses to be breastfeed, should not accuse his mother of not breastfeeding it."
The creator has given us everything we need through nature, but like the rebellious infant we refused to be natural like other creatures. The creator even goes as far as sending us prophets to teach us his laws which involves being decent and caring for our bodies, we kill them and call them dreamers.

olabowale:
@M_Nwankwo: I know that you do not believe in everything in the Bible, but probably believe in what Jesus said to sothe your idae of Grail Message?
Is it not in the bible that Jesus is reported to have said that the wages of SIN is DEATH?

@olabowale
"The wages of SIN is death." The death that is meant here is spiritual death not physical death. Physical death is actually not death but a transition or the falling away of the physical body like m_nwankwo has rightly explained. Physical death is not real death because the soul(spirit), which is the real man, goes on living after physical death. The real death that is caused by sining is the spiritual death; that is when the ego,(soul, Spirit) dies. This is eternal damnation.

M_nwankwo is also right in his assertion that before the fall of man, people died normal deaths. This is the death of the physical body when it has passed the stage of over-ripeness. Such death is not as a result of disease, it is only a natural process. Everything physical must pass through the four stages of (1)birth, and blossoming (2)ripeness or maturity, (3) over ripeness or old, and (4) death or decomposition. The physical body also goes through these four stages: It is born, it grows on it's childhood years (birth and blossoming), it becomes an adult(ripeness or maturity), then, it becomes old (over ripeness), after which it dies (death or decomposition). Amidst these processes the spirit resides inside the physical body and during the death of the physical body, the spirit detaches itself from the physical body. This is actually progress for the spirit, for it cannot enter Paradise with it's physical body; this is progress for the spirit if the spirit has lived his life on earth rightly or in accordance with the laws of God. It is like passing a school.

But the physical body cannot live forever, it is transient like everything physical, i.e. the earth, the stars, and etc. Only this process of "Birth, Ripeness, over-ripeness, and decay" is eternal. Physical matter continuously undergo through this process. Even before the fall of man, the physical world was transient; only that then due to mans obedience to God, the physical world was closer to God and easily permeated by spiritual power which made it healthier and lighter, hence men could live longer then.

Physical death is not the same as disease and it is not always caused by a disease. Even in the absence of every disease, the physical body must one day die. It is only a natural process like I explained above. It is also a necessity for the spirit that the physical body dies, otherwise the spirit will be trapped in the physical body forever. Therefore rightly considered, physical death(the way God designed it) is actually a blessing. Just as all natural process and everything that proceeded from God are only blessings.

Also God did not create diseases, neither do God use diseases to "check and balance" his creation. In all that God created, only LOVE, and JUSTICE are to be found. LOVE and JUSTICE are what God's "checks and balances." Diseases arise when man fails to take care of his body the way it is designed to be cared for, and as a result of man feeding and breathing poisons, and also as a result of mans neglect of his body, ie lack of exercise and proper hygiene. Also wrong usage of the body(ie overdevelopment of the intellect, promiscuity and etc.) is also detrimental to health. It is this failure of man over many years that allowed all the diseases on earth today to arise, including birth defects and etc.
"What you sow is what you must reap!" Over years, man has sown "disregard for his body and environment," now man must reap the fruit of it: diseases.

Seeing all the diseases on earth today and suffering from them shows man the fruit of wrong living. It teaches him to care for his body. THIS IS LOVE.
If in the suffering man recognises that his disease are only as a result of his failure and determines never to fail again, he will be redeemed of the guilt. THIS IS JUSTICE.

Pastor AIO:
Yes and No.

Yes, the grass is perceived from a perspective and that perspective shapes the experience of seeing grass a great deal. That is why the experience is FACTUAL, yet not Truth. However, as regards whether humans are capable of perceiving truth. I say yes we can have direct experience of truth. We do have a faculty whereby we can experience Truth only that the faculty is dormant in most people.

I do not believe in revealed truth as such. If you do not have the faculties to perceive Truth then no amount of revelation will help you experience it. I hope that you are not suggesting that this revelation of Truth is something that can be written in a book.

You are making a mistake! Humans have a faculty( the intuitive perception) which is able to perceive the Truth about anything on its level and below it. But what lies above it will remain a mystery to humans, unless revealed to them from above. Our spirits originated my the highest part of creation( the spiritual realm) and our spirit is able to perceive the Truth in anything that lies within creation ( from the spiritual realm to the physical realm). But still this is not the TRUTH, because the TRUTH existed before creation, it lies outside creation. Thus man at his best will only know a part or the Truth in creation; but this is not the TRUTH which cannot be in part and out of which creation came into being.

I will explain further: even the spiritual perception( intuitive perception) differ from person to person. Based on the nature of the person, or the maturity of the person. Just as the physical perception by the physical organs differ from individual to individual. You and I don't see things exactly the same way, even science can prove this. The size of my eyes, optic nerves, and brains are not the same with yours, therefore we cannot see things exactly the same way. That faculty in man able to recognize the Truth, also perceive based on the nature and the maturity of the spirit.

Above all these perceptions lies the TRUTH which no creature can perceive as such. This TRUTH is what it is irrespective of the any creatures perception of it.

I can go further, but think over this and reply.

Thanks

Of course the story is inspirational, meant to give hope to the broken hearted.
But of course it cannot be a real happening or based on an actual happening. If the writers claim that it actually happened then they are liars, except if the boy's mother was delusional.
Sometimes difficult events drive people to the delusion of seeing things, sometimes it helps to comfort them. I guess it is the brain's way of helping the sorrow- stricken person deal with the situation.

But such things are not possible -- they don't eat in heaven, and no creature can sit on God's knee, neither can any creature dine with Jesus who is in the Divine plane.

wirinet:
Truth is not as you say concise, definite, and unchangeable; meaning more than real or genuine;that which was, is, and shall always be real and incorruptible in terms of permanence and lasting - Whilst fact is that which is known, conceded upon or considered to be real or genuine; a stipulation of concession. Meaning there is nothing like universal truth
Also truth is often derived from facts.

Now me use your example, Grass is not always green and i can say grass is not green at all. Before you can understand you have to know what colours really are and why grass appear green to you.

Grass appears green because the sun gives out most of its light in the "green" and "yellow" spectrum and a pigment in plant (chlorophyll) reflects rather than absorb the green light. So the light waves is reflected to your eyes as green. If the sun should reduce the green portion of the light or chlorophyll starts absorbing green light waves, then grass would stop being green, also if person with a colour blindness for green would not see the grass as green.
So what is the truth about the universal colour of grass

@wirinet
I am amazed at your knowledge. You are definitely very intelligent. I agree with your last paragraph(the highlighted part) but I disagree with your conclusion that "Truth is not as you say concise, definite, and unchangeable."

Truth is eternal and unchangeable.

You are right about the greenness of grass being as a result of chlorophyll which absorbs all color and reflects green. In actuality the greenness of the grasses comes from the sun which sends the light that contains all colors. By the nature or the composition of the material that the lights hits, some colors are reflected while others are absorbed. The material appears (to our perception) to be the color that it reflects.

Therefore the color of a material is very dependant on the light it reflects, and the perception of the observer. Thus a dog might not see the leaf(grass) as green due to the fact that the dog's perceptive organs do not detect the wavelength we call green.

Therefore no creature can see the plant(grass) exactly the way it is. In other words, the TRUE nature of the plant stands outside it's perception. TRUTH and perception are two different things. Man, and animals cannever see the TRUTH the way it really is. They only see it through the spectrum of their nature. Thus their perception of it depends on their nature. And this perception is changeable. Different nature sees a different perception. They a dog sees a thing is not the way man sees the same thing. Even humans change their perception as soon as their nature changes. ie, when you mature you see things differently.

But the TRUTH stands above the perception of the observer and the reflection of the object observed. The TRUE nature of the grass remains unchangeable, irrespective of who observes it and wheather the sunlight hits it or not.

This TRUTH, which is eternal and unchangeable can only be seen by God who is the TRUTH HIMSELF.

God alone is the TRUTH, and the TRUTH can only come from GOD.

This TRUTH God can reveal to humans, and when revealed, man should fine-tune his percetive ability with the revealed TRUTH.

Now apply this to everything.

@KunleOshob
In addition to what m_nwankwo told you about UFOs and aliens which is correct. There are also cases like the Roswell incident which so many people saw and which left evidence. Some of the eye witnesses even claim to have taken some pieces of the alien space craft that crashed in Rosewell. Obviously UFO crashed there. But here is the explanation:

Western governments are on a race, each wants to technologically advance further than the other. The American government does so many secret scientific researches and builds so many scientific vehicles. These researches are done in secret, so that other western powers will not know about it. There is rumour in America that the government secretly keeps aliens in a place called "Area 51." Movies like "Men in Black," are based on such rumours. Places like "Area 51" which is a top secret military facility, I believe do exist, but it is not a facility where aliens are kept by the government; rather, it is a secret research facility.
American government will not like their competitors to know about their latest technonlogy, so that in war situations they can suprise the world like they did in the second world war(Hiroshima and Nagasaki)
After researching in secret, they test their products(ie flying vehicles) in isolated areas like Rosewell. And during such tests sometimes the vehicles crash because it is still not yet perfected.  I believe that the well known crash in Roswell was one of such.
That is why immediately after such crashes, the military goes in and removes all dibree. Otherwise why would the military and the American government spend so much energy and time covering up such crashes, even to the extent of treathening eye-witnesses who dared to confess. How come such crashes never happens in Africa where the American military wont be around to cover the evidences.
UFO means unidentified flying objects, not necessarily alien driven. A newly invented space ship, driven in secret will qualify as UFO, because it is unidentified(not known), and a flying object.

The above is from investigations about UFO and aliens that I have read; and the Roswell case that I followed and researched on, not from the Grail Message. The Grail Message did not say anything specifically on Roswell UFO. Everything I said above is from my researches and the researches done by the government and the discovery channel., not from the Grail Message. I followed the researches done on the Roswell case, because I know so many people who attribute their lack of belief in God on the existence of alien and UFO.

About astrology, stars and faith.
m_nwankwo is right and his explanation is in accord with the TRUTH in The Grail Message. I have this to add too:
Consider, years ago before Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto were discovered, the ancients who were versed in Astrology believed that there were only seven planets, and that the earth was the center of the universe. They rightly perceived the energies of the seven stars and rightly perceived that the star's energies affect humans. They based their calculations on seven stars(Planets). It is only logical for us now to see that their calculations could not have been perfect. Because the are ignorant of other planates whose energies also affect humans. Only events that involve only the energies of the seven stars that they know could be calculated precisely. But in events that involved more energies, their calculations must fail. That is why the ancients astrologers were right in certain things but not in all.
With the discovery of Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto, modern astrologers revised astrology and incorporated the energies of these three stars in their calculations. Thus they improved divination by astrology. But still astrology can never be precise because not only the planets in our solar system effect us. Every planet in the universe vibrates in a certain energy which is directed to the earth at certain time, as science have observed. Therefore if these energies affect our behaviour and destiny(like astrologers perceive) then it is impossible for man's divination by astrology to be completely precise and perfect, because man does not know most of the planets in the universe. Neither does he know their paths.
This is the Problem with astrology. Only God know every star and planet in the Universe. 

m_nwankwo has correctly explained that the stars or planets are not the starting points of these energies or radiations by saying that "The stars only return what we put in creation through our activities." and that man is not unconditionally at the mercy of the Starla radiations (energies). When a star that carries destructive energy crosses a path through which its energies is realised to the earth, only humans who have destruction in their hearts and those who have sown destruction in the past will be affected by the destructive energy of the star. Each energy, be it good or bad, is only attracted by homogeneous species, thus they strike where they find a homogeneous energy. Therefore even in a time when the staler radiations are bad, good and matured souls will not be affected. This is another thing that an astrologer cannot see. So when he makes predictions or draws a chart(horoscope) for a person, the astrologer does not know the nature of the soul(wheather the soul is good or bad). Thus if the person is righteous or changes to righteousness then the evils that the astrologer predicted will not affect him because goodness is not homogeneous to evil. Evil radiations flow only to evil people due to the law of attraction of homogeneous  species. This is why so many horscopes fail in their prediction.

Another problem that Astrology can cause is that when the astrologer predicts that evil times are eminent This prediction makes people afraid and that fear is enough to draw a negative radiation to the people afraid who would not have been affected if they had not been afraid. People should not live with fear because sometimes through your fear, you draw what you fear to yourself.

Also, sometimes when an astrologer predicts a bright future for a person. This might fill the person with a certain type of hope that might make him/her believe that "no-matter-what" the future is bright. The person may start living unscrupulously and carelessly, wasting his/her time and talent and finally end up a failure. Perhaps, had he/she not been given this false hope by the Astrologer, he/she might have been more careful and hardworking, which would have yielded a bright future.

Therefore the right way to go is to seek righteousness. Nothing is written in stone like some people believe. Nobody is predestined by the stars. The stars only return to us what we once sent out into the universe. By changing our way of living, we set processes in motion that will soon change our destiny. Our destiny lies in our hands. If from today, we do only good, sooner or later we will have only good and blessings to receive. And when the stars radiate evil, they will spare us this evil because the evil will not find a homogeneous soil in us, it will pass us by without harming us. There is no point in consulting astrologers, or fearing the predictions of astrologers because righteousness cancells every evil. One who lives in the WILL OF GOD needs fear no evil. The WILL OF GOD is the key to a successful life. Therefore man should put his/her faith in God and not in the stars.

Those who wish to study the stars and their radiations should do so in private. They should spare the masses, their predictions. Since their predictions can only cause unnecessary panic and cannot be precise due to the reasons already mentioned.

This is my perception of the Grail Message and the Life around me. Although the Grail Message did not specifically mention the planetary names (Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto) that I mentioned above, I got the information on those planets from my personal study on Astrology, and the history of astrology. I advise every reader to personally read the Grail Message which contains the TRUTH in the issue of astrology.

KunleOshob:
@justcool
your explanation is still not satisfactory, maybe i would understand better if i get hold of a copy of the grail message and read through my self / subject it to scrutiny. Where can i get one? i stay in Lagos. But i must mention that i believe very strongly in the bible even though my views as a christian does not conform to what a lot of churches preach today and i would find it very difficult to accept any thing that contradicts the bible. I also know for a fact that the bible is incomplete as it doesn't answer all questions i expect it to answer. Even then i doubt if the Grail message would.

@KunleOshob
I am happy that m_nwankwo has given you the address to a place where you can get a copy of the Grail message. It is okay if you don't find my explanation satisfactory, it is okay is my explanations raised more questions in you. Sometimes we learn by questioning. If all m_nwankwo and I achieved with our explanations was to make you read the Grail Message then our explanations have been very fruitful.
We are only human spirits and we cannot give you the TRUTH, which only God can give. All we can do is share our experiencing of the TRUTH with you. Thus our perception, or reflection of the TRUTH. Being human spirits we cannot reflect the whole TRUTH in it's entirety, only that which we have been able to absorb.
Just read the Grail Message and put it under scrutiny, perhaps you might even absorb more than m_nwankwo and I.

See to it that you purchased a copy of the Grail Message and read.

I wish you strength. Remain blessed.

rotimy:
[b]Re: Bible Accounts That Suggest Reincarnation.
« #29 on: December 05, 2007, 10:04 PM »

M. Okonkwo wrote the above on the thread that Justcool claimed that answered every question on re-incarnation. If not anything, I am happy that M. Okonkwo is honest. His expert views are NOT FROM THE BIBLE! It was a cooked up story from the Hindus, Buddahs and African Traditionalists- a pure cultic belief outside the Holy Bible

Please can you show me where in this thread or another that I claimed that the thread answered every question on re-incarnation.

Here is what I said:

justcool:
For those who genuinely wants to know about reincarnation. Please refer to this link:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-94905.0.html#msg1697718

The issue has already been discussed in this forum. There you will find mine's and m-nwankwo's perspective on the issue.

The Grail Message answered all questions concerning reincarnation. I and m-nwankwo are willing to offer clarifications on the issue to whoever still has questions after reading the earlier thread on reincarnation: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-94905.0.html#msg1697718

@rotimy
I don’t know what you intend to achieve by posting lies against me. I hope this clears your lie. I and m_nwankwo are still open to entertain questions on reincarnations. I never claimed that we have answered all questions and thus done on the issue. Such will discourage people from bringing their questions.
I maintain: Anybody who has questions on any issue concerning the Grail Message should bring up his/her questions.
If you said that by mistake, please next time read my post carefully.
Also, I wish to let you know that the theory of reincarnation is not alien to early Christianity. Read about the council of Nicea, and the gnostic christians. But this does not mean that I draw my explanations from the bible. I draw from the Grail Message, thus I do not agree with the bible on every issue.

KunleOshob:
@justcool/m_nwankwo

So how do you know that the grail message is the truth apart from the rational that it makes sense? How are we sure it is not the work of a very intelligent man postulatting logical answers to questions religions don't answer properly or issues that confuse us? what is the source of the writer's inspiration? Personally i haven't read the grail message and i won't critisize it, but i know someone who said that he ended up having more questions than answes after reading the book.

@ KunleOshob
Thanks for your questions. I felt happy reading your post, especially the highlighted part.

KunleOshob:
@m_nwankwo
Thanx for the response but you haven't answered my questions. Besides how come that if it the real truth most people don't recognize it as the truth even when they read it as you claim? Also the credentials of the author and his source of inspiration is critical to determine if he is telling the truth. You avoided answering this points. Abi you are not confident of him enough to share his truth with us??

I agree with m-nwankwo's response but from your post above I can see that you need more clarification. m-nwankwo approached the issue from the spiritual perspective, and in an all embracing manner. Perhaps you are looking for a scientific answer, since today people only listen to science.  Therefore let’s approach the issue scientifically.

Your question is "how do you know that the grail message is the truth apart from the rational that it makes sense?" and "what is the source of the writer's inspiration?"
The scientific way to discover the Truth is through the scientific method. The bedrock of scientific method is that "Theory Must Agree With Reality." Thus any hypotheses or theory that does not agree with reality cannot be certified a scientific fact or truth. Although one should not use science, which is limited only to physical things to judge spiritual things but for the sake of finding the Truth let us put the Grail message under scientific scrutiny.

In all religious books certain things that cannot be explained are covered with the veil- blind faith. Whenever the explanations deviates from the Truth around us (the Truth in nature), the readers are told to accept it as a mystery of God. Thus accept it blindly with faith. Thus you cannot put any religious book under scientific scrutiny because some of the things in them (the religious books) do not agree with reality. Even when they talk of earthly things, things within the realm of science, they still do not agree with reality.
Example: a donkey talking, Mary getting pregnant without sexual intercourse with a humanbieng and etc
Such stories do not agree with reality and can never be accepted by science. Thus one can safely say that the religious books do not contain the whole Truth. Even if the spiritual parts of the book are true, the physical parts are not true because they do not agree with the reality around us. Hence those religious books do not contain the eternal Truth, which is true in all things, from spiritual to physical. We know that in the physical world a donkey can never talk; neither can a woman get pregnant without sexual conception, except in in-vitro fert, which was not yet invented at the time of Marry. At best we can say that the religious books, scriptures, etc contain the truth in parts but not the eternal Truth which can never be in parts

Only the Grail message, in Its explanations lives up to the notion that "Theory Must Agree With Reality." All the explanations in the Grail message agree with reality. And the Grail message does not require blind faith. It urges the reader to weigh and examine everything, and compare it with the reality around him/her. Thus the explanations in the Grail Message concerning physical things all agree with the physical reality around us. Thus one can logically conclude that this is the Truth, since the Truth in It extends to physical things. The Truth is the Truth, even in physical things. The Physical world follows strict and unchangeable laws which science have observed.

And the explanations in the Grail Message that deals with the non-physical things also follow the same straight logic that is found in the explanation of physical things. In the explanation we see the same unchangeable laws that operate in the physical things, also operating in the spiritual realm. There is no arbitrariness, everything in creation is explained in all its naturalness, and the same laws that we see in physical worlds also uphold the spiritual worlds. Since these laws originated from the creator, it should be found in all parts of the creator’s works.

Besides we have a part of the spiritual world in us, i.e. our innermost core (our spirits) Having originated from the spiritual world, it carries slumbering within it, the memories of the spiritual world (broadly speaking). People, who have not buried their spirits within them, easily recognize that the Truth in the Grail Message agrees with the spiritual reality in them.

Another way that science uses in finding the Truth is, "Test." Under the right conditions, the theory must always work. Thus whenever the theory is tested under the right conditions it must work. Example: the law of gravity whenever tested always works! All the things in the Grail message that I have applied have worked each time without fail. I have applied the laws of reciprocal action: "What ever a man sows, that he shall reap!" I applied it physically by literally sowing corn in a farm, and I reaped corn. I applied it spiritually by being charitable, and I reaped charity!
This is another Test that the Grail message lived up to.

The fact that not everybody who reads the Grail Message reorganizes the Truth in it shows that some people have buried their ability to recognize the Truth, which can only be recognized with the intuitive perception (The Spirit). Some people even fail to see the strict logic in it, because apart from being spiritually slow, some people have also lost the ability to think. Even in schools, the best teacher may never be able to teach all students to get an “A.” Even though what the teacher teaches is an established truth. No matter how truthful and straightforward a theory is, there will always be people who will never get it. We see this everyday, even in this forum.

KunleOshob:
Also the credentials of the author and his source of inspiration is critical to determine if he is telling the truth. You avoided answering this points. Abi you are not confident of him enough to share his truth with us??

The writer of the Grail message did not bring Himself, He brought the Truth. Therefore one who seeks the Truth should not start by seeking the personality of the Truth bringer. “Gold is Gold even in the hands of a beggar.” Credentials are of no importance here because the ability to bring the eternal Truth is a nonphysical ability which neither university nor school can ever give. It is simply God given. Similar questions were asked to the Son of God Jesus: “was he not just a carpenter or a carpenter’s son?” “Under whose authority does he speak,” and “can anything good come out of Nazareth?”
His credentials lies in the words that He brought. The words should be examined and if found wanting, should be thrown away irrespective of who brought it; but, if found to be the Truth, the words should be upheld and lived by.

If I propose a hypothesis, the scientific researchers will analyze my hypothesis, weigh and examine it, compare it with reality, and compare it with known scientific laws. If my hypotheses live up to all scrutiny then it becomes a scientific law, irrespective of my educational background. Remember, some of the greatest scientists ever lived did not have an impressive credentials in terms of educational background.

But when you have put the book to scrutiny and recognize the Truth in it. By living in accordance with the Truth, your spirit along with it’s perceptive abilities will grow to the extent and that you will recognize who brings the Truth. You will reconize Him and His inspiration in His work(The Grail Message) -- "By their works you shall know them." But then this recognistion will be a personal experience, just as Peter was the first to personally experience Jesus as the son of God. Peter was the first of the twelf to personally recognize God in Jesus. Then, you will also by personal experence recognize the origin of the bringer of the Truth in the Grail Message, and also His inspiration. I will not deny you this personal experence.

The Truth can only come from God, WHO is the Truth HIMSELF. Always remeber: "By their works you shall know them."

Read and experence the Grail Message. The message bears witness to It's origin and the insipiration of it's writer, only personal experencing will reveal this to you.


I hope this helps. Thanks and remain blessed.

@ all nairalanders
Since so many people in this forum have made allegations on the Grail Message. Let us use this opportunity to address all questions concerning the Grail Message.

If there is something in the Grail Message that you don't understand, or if there is something that you wish to know about the Grail Message, ask your questions and m-nwankwo and I will offer clarifications.

Please don't join the masses shouting "crucify him!" Rather than joining the masses that attack anything that they don't understand, here is an opportunity for you to scrutinize the Book.  Ask your questions so that afterwards you can have an educated opinion of the book rather than an opinion based on assumptions.

For those who genuinely wants to know about reincarnation. Please refer to this link:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-94905.0.html#msg1697718

The issue has already been discussed in this forum. There you will find mine's and m-nwankwo's perspective on the issue.

Thanks

@stag
I am happy that my explanations helped you. Right after reading your first post on this thread, I perceived that you are a true seeker that's why I took time and answered your questions.

The fact that you recognized that the TRUTH in The Gail Message is the TRUTH that you carry within you, shows that the spirit within you is still alive. Only the spirit recognizes the TRUTH and whoever has let the spirit within him fall asleep or die cannever recognise the TRUTH. Even if the person has all the degrees in the world, he will never be able to recognize the TRUTH because the intellect cannot recognize the TRUTH.

I am happy for you. You are already on the right path. Weigh and examine everything with your intuitive perception, and you will never be lead astray. But also remember to remain eternally humble towards the creator, because one who is not humble will never find his/her way back to paradise, or the kingdom of God. Out of this humility always pray to the Almighty to guide you in your seeking.

When you have achieved these two things(1-weigh and examine with your intuition; and, 2-- pray humbly), then you have fulfilled instruction which Jesus gave when He said: "watch and pray that you do not fall in temptation."

To "watch" means to watch with your spirit. i,e keep your ability to perceive intuitively alive, or weigh and examine with your intuitive perception. To "pray" means to stand perpetually in humility to God and, humbly petition for His help and guidance.

Once you fulfill these two conditions, you will definitely not fall in temptation, neither will you fall in your seeking, because in your watchfullness you will recognise all temptations and in answer to your humble prayer, you will be given strength and shown a way to overcome all temptations.

My wish for you now is "watch and Pray." Then definitely your seeking will lead you to recognition and to Paradise.

Thanks and remain blessed.

rotimy:
@Justcool and stang
All your explanations, pontifications and expositions are in vain! Two of you cleverly refused to mention karma and reincarnation your Grail message believes in but which is against the revealed truth in THE BIBLE!
If the Grail movement believes in the Bible and Jesus Christ, why looking for another truth?

@rotimy
My explanations are not for you! Please leave my explanations alone!

Is there something in you that cannot leave the Grail Message alone?
Why spend so much energy fighting a book that you have not read and have refused to read?

Maybe your conscience won't leave you in peace, for trying to discredit a book that you have not read.

In all the questions that I have addressed, there is nothing in them that warrants the mentioning of Karma and reincarnation. I simple answered, to best of my limited knowledge, questions that Stag presented to me.

m_nwankwo:
I am not sure you can dispute that matter is[b] not[/b] subject to birth, growth, death, decay and transformation. You can see it in a yam that is sown or a corn seed or in the birth and death of stars or even in the birth and death of the human body. Thanks.

@m_nwankwo
I perceive that in the above you meant that, "nobody can dispute that matter is subject to birth, growth, death, decay and transformation.
I completely agree with you but I think maybe you should re-phrase the above sentence. Is the "not" (which I made bold) necessary? I think it undermines the meaning of your sentence. I call you to it because I suspect that it is a typo.

As always, I respect your sound knowledge and clear outlook.

Thanks and remain blessed.

I completely agree with m_nwankwo.
God is absolute goodness and all forms of evil is alien to God. God did not create evil.
The origin of evil lies in the misapplication of God's power which he lends to all his creatures and which all creatures are dependant upon.
This power of God is neutral, it can be used to create good, as much as it can also be used to creat evil. But this neutral power issued out of God who is absolute goodness, hence this power becomes strong when used rightly, i.e when used to create good. It weakens when used wrongly. This is why evil is transient, and only temporal.

In addition to this, there is a law in creation: The law of reciprocal action. Jesus explained this law by, "What a man sows that shall he reap!" This law operates in parts of creation, from the spiritual to the physical, from the smallest things to the biggest things.

Even science observed this law in motion of physical things. "Every action has an equal and oppsite reaction." Thus if I apply a force of 10 newtons on a wall, the wall automatically applies the same force of 10 newtons back to me.

This law operates even in the actions of man. If a man does good, this good will oneday return to him a thousand fold.
Just as if a farmer plants one seed of corn, during harvest he will reap kernels of corns.

So when catastrophic evil overcome peoples(like Sodom and Gomorrah) and destroy them all. It is not God that made this evil. It is the people, i.e they must have sown this evil in the past. So the catastrophe we see is only a hervest of what they had sown in the past. Here we see a perfect example of man creating evil. If man only sows good seeds, then on hervest days, they will only receive goodness, blessing, peace, joy.

This law of "sowing and reaping" is an expression of the WILL OF GOD which is absolute love and justice. It is a blessing to those that use it rightly, ie those that sow only good seeds. Receiving the good that they once sowed is love and justice form them for it encourages them to remain good.

Likewise, the distruction that people receive on hervest days is also love and justice. The love there is that it enables them to experience what they once did to others and it shows them how they stand, offering them the recognition that will impell them to change. It is also justice for those who they once harmed, for in the suffering of their oppressors they will see the Justice of God defending them. Thus they will see the fulfillment of the biblical words, "Vengeance is mine."

Thus in all God's laws there are only goodness.

@stag
I have already shed light on woman, and womanhood. Refer to my earlier post in which I wrote about marriage, above my explanations on marriage you will find where I talked about woman and womanhood.

Now about sex. If by "sex" you mean sexual intercourse, here are my answers:

Sexual intercourse is an earthly(physical) thing; in the beyond and Paradise there is nothing like sexual intercourse. Infact souls in the beyond and spirits in Paradise do not have sex organs. The sex organs are needed on earth for procreation, and sexual intercourse; all of which are a necessity of the physical body.

Just as the physical body, needs foods, eliminates wastes, and needs rest for it to remain healthy.  The desire for sexual intercourse which often happens with men of matured age is normal, and should be satisfied in-order to keep the body healthy. Animals also satisfy this desire, but we humans are not on the same level with animals. The animal is animated by an animistic substance(soul) while humans are animated by their Spirits(the breath which God gave man). Actually the real man is the Spirit, the physical body is only a cloak that the spirit wears in-order to function on earth.

Thus it logically follows that the way man nourishes or satisfies his physical body should not be the same way that animals nourish and satisfy theirs. Man owing to his spirit, which stands higher in creation than animals souls, should exhibit more self control and decency than the animal. I will give an analogy: A 30 year old man does not wear his cloths the way a 3 year old boy does. The 30 year old man makes sure his cloths are clean and tries to keep it clean all day long, but a 3 year old might sit down on dirt and doesn't care how dirty his cloths are.

Therefore it is wrong to indulge in sexual intercourse in an animal-like manner, i.e promiscuity, sodomy, adultery, pornography, incest, and all sorts of sexual perverity. All these acts which have become accepted in today's modern society are wrong. They place man on the level of animals, even below animals.

Man should place sex where it belongs-- in the physcal realm( the lowest realm of creation). Since man originates from the spiritual realm which is far higher than the physical, he should put his spirit above all things. He should use earthly things only for their purpose, i.e he should eat, sleep and relieve his sexual desire just to keep the body healthy. But he should not live just to gratify his senses. He should not let sexual desire become a propensity in him, because such propensities will keep him earthbound. Today sexual desire has become a propensity in most people, today men live for sex just as gluttons live to eat. This is wrong, people should only have sex when it is a desire arising from their healthy physical bodies. Today the senses has been so gratified that the desire is no longer just from the body, it has become a desire of their spirit. And this is wrong because sexual desire should be alien to the spirit, because the spirit has no need for it. Whenever the desire goes beyond the need of healthy physical body and decomes a craving from the soul then such is propensity. Even if the people having sex are married, as long as they do it out of their propensity for sex then it wrong an immoral.

But the physical body's natural and healthy desire for sex should not be suppressed because suppression is unnatural. But one has to be careful to make sure the desire is not as a result of propensity, lust, or enticement. This natural desire for sexual intimacy only occurs when there is a perfect harmony between the parties involved, i.e when there is love between the man and the woman. Thus, in a real marriage(such harmony between two parties is real marriage, even if they had not wedded). In such situations it is not wrong to gratify this natural sexual desire which, in such a case, will also involve a healthy exchange of vibrations, resulting in greater power and harmony.

Thus, sexual intimacy is not just for procreation which often results from it. With humans, if done correctly can also aid the spirit.  But if done wrongly it can bind to spirit, making it earth bound. The afore-mentioned harmony and power that can result from it aids the spirit as well, otherwise the creator would not have placed the desire in humans. Perhaps this harmony is part of the experience that the spirit needs in-order to mature on earth.

One must make sure that he doesn't allow lust to get into it. Even while gratifying this natural sexual instinct, purity of thought should be maintained. A conception that arises from such intercourse will be an immaculate physical conception, immaculate because the conception was done in purity, love, and without sin.

I hope this throws enough light on sexual intercourse.


The above is only my perception and experiencing of the book, "IN THE LIGHT OF TRUTH: THE GRAIL MESSAGE." I encourage anybody who wishes to know the TRUTH of the matter to personally read "THE GRAIL MESSAGE" which contains the TRUTH.

@all
Please re-read my earlier post about Marriage. I revised it to make it more understandable to readers.
Thanks and remain blessed.

RedHotChic:
What light have you seen from their message? Grail message is not a christian body and share nothing on the body of christ. They even deny the immaculate conception and the deity of Christ, abi?.

[size=16pt]The Grail message claims that virgin mary got laid in the garden by an unknown angel to father Jesus contrary to what the bible teaches.[/size]

This is unbelievable!!!!
I am shocked. I can't believe that somebody can tell such a lie. How dare you lie like this in the internet and in this age where people can easily get information on the issue at hand.
Is it Christlike to tell a lie about a book that you don't like, or to make uninformed allegations against a book that you have not read.

[size=18pt] The Grail Message never said that "that virgin Mary got laid in the garden by an unknown angel to father Jesus."[/size]

This allegation by redhotchick is a complete lie and readers should not attach this lie to the Grail Message, a book which comfirms and explains the real meaning of immaculate conception.
It is impossible for a human being to get laid by an angel which is not human and doesn't have a physical body. This is an impure thought that can only arise from a corrupt mind. That is not immaculate conception either. I can speak later about immaculate conception if there is any body who wishes to know about it.

@stag
My advice to you is this:
Since you have the book and you are reading it. Forget about what others do or what any organization do. The book is written for mankind and not to any organisation. Just concentrate on what you find in the book. The book never said that reader should join any organisation. Please don't judge the book by what others do. After reading the book you might decided not join any organisation. The choice is yours.
The right way to proceed is to examine and scrutinize the words and not any organisation. If you don't find the book worthy to live by just drop it and forget about it. If you do then base your life on the teachings of the book and not any organisation.

About woman, and womanhood.
Man and woman are equal only that they represent different polarity. Man is active, coarse and masculine in his activity while woman is passive, fine and feminine in her activity. Spiritually women stand on a step half higher than man. Thus in a way, the woman is spiritually stronger than man, that is why she is more refined and gentle in her activity. But physically man is stronger than the woman. Man incarnates in a stronger physical body in-order to aid his masculine nature in functioning actively on earth. While women incarnate in a more delicate and softer physical bodies, a body delicate enough to aid her refined and gentle nature in her activity on earth.
Spiritually man is partly dependant on the woman because the woman is designed to receive higher spiritual currents and pass it down to man and other creatures. She does this with her spirit which is half a step higher than man's spirit. Just as her physical body receives the seed and carries the child(pregnancy) and finally delivers the child, the same way(although not exactly) her spirit receives spiritual energy and passes it down to man.
But the woman can only perform these tasks when she is living in the laws of God. But when she deviates from the right way and followes vanity then she will be cut off from this spiritual energy and then her environment will starve.
Lucifer knows that man is partly dependant on the woman, that's why he(Lucifer) deceived woman first. And naturally man followed because man is partly dependant on the woman.
To summarize. The woman being spiritually and intuitively stronger should protect man spiritually, while man being coarser and physically strong should protect woman physically. Therefore the field of activity of woman is in the home and the hart. And the field of activity of man is in the outside world, in work, in warfront and in providing physically for the family. But this does not mean that the woman should remain at home and not go out or to work. It only means that in her work she should employ her delicate nature, grace, charm, gentility and love. Any work that prevents the woman from employing these qualities is not right for woman.
Therefore it is wrong for women to behave like men, dress like men, and do masculine works. A woman should be a woman and a man should be a man.  Just as her hair flow down to her shoulders, (which is a physical symbolism of the way spiritual currents should through her) so shall her dress and manners. She should ware long and flowing dresses and not masculine cloths. She should not do masculine activity, ie hunting, fighting in a war, war leader and etc because such activities will make her delicate nature rough, thereby preventing her from receiving the required spiritual currents that her environment needs. She does not need any special training or occult trainings to achieve her high role, she only needs to be a woman and live in the laws of God.


About Marriage:
Marriage is only an earthly thing. In the beyond and in paradise there is nothing like marriage. But marriage is necessary for us in-order for us to lean how to co-exist and how to love(achieve perfect harmony). Love is the greatest gift of God. Without love one cannot enter Paradise, so part of our mission on earth is to learn to love. Marriage, if done in accordance with the WILL OF GOD will aid us in learning to love, achieving love or experiencing love. To love every creature, like Jesus did, indicates spiritual maturity. But as humans we have to start from one person. That's why we pick a partner, and if we allow pure love to develop for this partner soon we will learn to love all. Since man and woman are split species, only when they come together and work harmoniously can they achieve perfect harmony. Although living together and being married is not a prerequisite for achieving this hamony.

Also marriage is necessary in-order to provide a conducive environment for other souls who wish to incarnate on earth. These are the children that result from the union of man and woman. In their upbringing, children need  to experience the guidance of positive (active, masculine) father and the negative (passive, feminine) mother. A child raised by such parents will be a good member of the society. But this does not mean that two people(man and woman) who can't have children should not be married. The major purpose of marriage is not just to raise children but to work harmoniously with a partner who complements you, ie - working together and harmoniously towards a high aim. This experience--working together with a partner whose qualities so complements yours -- aids our spiritual development. This working harmoniously together is love.
 
Thus for a marriage to be right before God, there most be harmony between the parties(husband and wife). Before picking a partner one must make sure his/her partner is compatible with him/her. Only on such compatibility can true love develop. And any marriage that lacks true love and harmony is immoral before God.
Therefore a man must cherish, honnor, love and physically protect his wife; and likewise the woman should cherish, honnor and love her husband, then automatically her husband and children will be spiritually protected. A couple that cannot meet this requirement should not get married. Marrying somebody that you don't love is a sin and sexual intimacy in such marriages is immoral, adultery or fornication, even if you two have already wedded. This is because the woman is simply not made to be your wife, ie she dosen't have the qualities or character that is complementary your qualities or character. There are numerous women for a man and their are numerous men for a woman. One is not limited to a particular woman or man. There a more than a thousand women that one man can find harmony with; likewise, there are more than a thousand men that one woman can find harmony with. He/she only needs to look carefully and most importantly pray for Gods guidance in finding the right partner.

Just as marriage can bring so many blessings, it can also bring so many harm if it is not done in accordance to the WILL OF GOD.
But everybody must not get married. If you can remain single without sining then it's okay not to get married. It remains the individual's choice. Jesus did not get married, this alone shows us that it is okay not to get married. People should not be forced into marriage. Also, people should never interfer, disturb, or end a marriage that is in accordance with the will of God. Only on the grounds of immorality like I explained above should a marriage be dissolved.



The above are my perceptions or my experiencing of the Grail Message. I advise every reader to personally read the Grail message and have his/her own personal perception.

Thanks and remain blessed.

@all
In as much as I have clarified that the Grail Movement and Grail Message are two different things, I also wish to show the lie and the contradiction in rotimy's posts.
First in one of his posts we read:

rotimy:
The Grail Movement Cult in the US
Members of the Grail Movement in the Czech Republic ate the flesh of an 8-year-old boy after his mother kept him locked in a cage. Perhaps they thought Jesus was recommending cannibalism when he said "Those who eat my flesh and drink my blood have eternal life."

In another post of rotimy we read:

rotimy:
Chance discovery of abused child reveals bizarre Czech grail cult

By Daniel McLaughlin in Budapest
Saturday, 2 June 2007

Then came the bizarre revelation that "Anna" was not a 13-year-old girl, but a 34-year-old woman in disguise. Police believe "Anna" was actually Barbara Skrlova, a friend of the Mauerova sisters who, like them, belongs to a breakaway faction of an[b] organisation called the Grail Movement.[/b]
The Grail Movement follows the teachings of Oskar Ernst Bernhardt, a German also known as Abd-ru-shin, who from 1923-38 wrote the Grail Message, [/b]which depicts man as a being whose spirit can return to its source in heaven by performing good deeds on Earth. It claims to have at least 10,000 followers worldwide, including several hundred in Britain.

[b]"We broke with the people involved in this 11 years ago, after they added to the Grail Message with their own imaginings and fantasies," said Artur Zaplukal, spokesman of the Grail Movement in the Czech Republic, where it has about 1,500 followers. "I sent them a letter telling them they were no longer part of the Grail Movement."

-source-http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/chance-discovery-of-abused

You see the contradiction. The first post falsely accused the flesh eaters to belong to the Grail Movement. The second post rightly says that the flesh eaters were a brake away faction of the organisation.

You see the people that committed this crime were no longer part of the Grail movement. They were banned from the movement because of their own imaginings and fantasies.

Also rotimy have finally prove my point that The Gail Message and its writer did not start any cult, or religion. From rotimy's earlier post we read:

rotimy:
[i]The Grail Movement is an organization which originated in Germany in the late 1940s, inspired by the work of Oskar Ernst Bernhardt (also known by his pen name Abdruschin or Abd-ru-shin), principally In the Light of Truth: The Grail Message. [b]Abd-ru-shin did not found the organization; the movement as it exists today was formally organized by followers.
Master Dang and Spiritual Human Yoga| author= Jean-François Mayer, University of Fribourg (Switzerland) |publisher=cesnur.org|url=http://www.cesnur.org/testi/SHY.htm }}</ref>
End comment-->

The Grail Movement has been described both as a new religious movement and as a cult
[/b]
source-WIKIPEDIA, the grail movement

Thanks and remain blessed.

@ayomifull

ayomifull:
I still don't understand, are u saying members still belong to their various religions?

I never used the word "members." I maintain that the Grail Message does not bring a new religion. I call people who have read it and found it to be the TRUTH, adherents of the Grail Message. Not "members" because Grail Message is not a religion.

There are adhereants who stay on their own and adhere to the principles of the Grail Message.

There are adherents who still belong to their various religions. My brother is one of them. He met the Grail message many years ago and still read it everyday. He is very conversant about the book and he is convinced that it is the TRUTH. He lives by it, yet he has never departed from the catholic church. Also he is not a cross bearer. He belives that one should use the principles taught in the Grail message to better himself and his church and not leave his church.

There are adherents who decide to be sealed and receive the cross. These are called cross bearers. Being a cross bearer does not automatically make you a member of any group, organisation or church. The cross is binds you to God and not anybody or any organisation. There are cross bearers who stay on their own.

There are also cross bearers who come together to form a movement, whose goal is to make the book "In the Light of Truth: The Grail Message" known to the world. The hold public lectures, they meet together to worship and exchange ideas because some people need the contact of like minded people in order to grow spiritually--"iron sharpens iron."

ayomifull:
do they have same teaching as churches?

Which church teachings? Do all the churches have the same teachings? Adherents of the Grail Message live by the Grail Message which they have recognized to be the Truth in Its pure form. The word of the Grail Message is in accord with the Truth in all religions and naturally, the word of the Grail Message is also in disagreement with the false teachings in all religions. It cuts across all religions, uniting with the Truth in them, and at the same time disagreeing with the falsehood in them. It stands completely on it's own.

ayomifull:
do they read bible for their worship,

What is worship? And, is reading the bible part of worship? I await your answers.

ayomifull:
why hold their meeting/worship behind closed door and non members are not allowed in?

First of all, members is the wrong choice of word. Members of what? You mean adherents of the Grail Message, or cross bearers who participate in the movement.
Not only cross bearers are allowed to worship. People who are not cross bearers and who have not even finished reading the message are allowed if they asked for it. Such people are called seekers.

About the closing of doors. Did Jesus not tell you to pray privately and not openly in the street so that men can see you. The worshipers whoship God who does not need open doors to see and accept the worship. Perhaps the closing of doors is to avoid distraction. Did the Jews allow anybody to enter their temple? Not even all Jews were allowed to enter the holy of holies which was perpetually closed to the public. Only specially chosen high priests enter the holy of holies. Does this make the ancient Jews cult or secret society?

ayomifull:
If its not a religion and members still attend their various churches then what exactly is it?

The Grail Message is simply the proclamation of the Truth given to mankind irrespective of their race, age, gender, nationality, and religion.
Adherents who come together for some aim--ie, worship, hold public lectures, etc are just a union or coming together of likeminded people for a particular aim. They chose to do this in their loyalty to God, but this is a personal choice. The writer did not demand that the reader must join any organisation.
The Message maintens that each individual is answerable to God for his words, thoughts and actions; neither religion nor cult can save anybody from the consequences of his/her actions. God is not a respecter of any religion, cult or organizations.
The difference between this and churches is that churches tell you that you have to belong to this or that church/religion in-order to be saved. Muslims tell you that you must be a muslim, Christians tell you that you must be a Christian, catholics tell you that you must be a catholic in-order to be saved. But the Grail message maintains that man is responsible for his/her actions irrespective of his religion. Any body who does good shall reap good and anybody who does evil shall reap evil irrespective of his/her religious orientation.
Man is only saved by living according to the Truth(Gods words, or Gods laws), which so many prophets of the old proclaimed and which the son of God Jesus brought to earth. Fragments of this Truth is in all religions. But the Grail message contains the whole TRUTH.

I hope this clears your puzzle.

Thanks and remain blessed