chieveboy:


I might check that book out

Please do, would like to hear your thought on it. Here is a link to it

https://www.theosophy.world/sites/default/files/ebooks/Invisible%20Helpers.pdf

chieveboy:
In fact, a few weeks before, I’d left a note for my sister telling her who to contact in case she found that I’d left the body permanently. She was also a conscious student of the Mahanta.

Today, she had gone to the store to get some groceries. I was alone in the apartment half listening to the whispers of a voice that wasn’t pleasant to the ears.

I closed my eyes, and began to sing HU. After a while, the tightening feeling subsided. Was I having a heart attack so early in life? I was soon to find out. I went into quiet contemplation, and was soon out of the body.

Interesting, it reminds me of the book "Invisible Helpers" by CW Leadbeater

chieveboy:


If you created a game where the players are to supposed to learn vital lessons which you want them to learn, will you exclude the dislike or shoot button and leave only the hug and like button?


Moreover, even conditions you call bad where not created, the membrane of the created universe right from the mental plane to this does not support anything to exist without it's opposite.

The moment any "good" is created is when a bad is created. Actually in another culture or civilization, they do not go with the good/bad categorization, they see both as one and the same stuff with an inherent configuration. Like the exterior of an orange and the content inside.

I understand you but that doesn't sit well with me. I prefer this explanation:

Thought form is created when we think a thought.

Thought forms with the same vibration are grouped together to form a powerful thought center.

When a person thinks thoughts that corresponds with the thought center, a link is created between the thinker and thought center and the latter supplies thoughts of the same kind to the thinker.

Thoughts centers are manmade structures and get fed from the number of people that think that thought pattern.

If nobody thinks of thoughts that feed this center, it will eventually dry up due to lack of vitality.

Our scientist in time will develop goggles that enables us see them in the future.

Is this a prophesy or a guess?

Well, yes and no. They are Souls pulled from different places just like we have Souls on earth pulled from different places like planets, galaxies and dimensions who now come as humans.

OK, but I personally don't believe in reincarnation.
The idea of punishing a person for the crimes he can't even remember is cruel. How will that person learn from his mistakes or even find the punishment justified.

Here is one Eckankar radio program on Rock fm 92.3 today by 7:30pm-8:00pm

Thanks

chieveboy:

Yes.

If God is love how can he be the creator of hateful, murderous and other negative thoughts.

Yes. I am saying Abuja for instance dovetails into another city and exists in same physical location. One is vibrating higher, making it possible for the two cities to seemingly exist in the same place.

Are the inhabitants of this city aware of us?
Are they once human that lived on earth or they're another order of beings?

TV PROGRAM

Theme:
How to Find God

Tv station :
1.DSTV Channel 258

Saturdays 8:30pm to 9pm Nigerian Time.
I will share that of the radio programs when I get one please. Thanks

Thanks, but I'm more interested in the radio programs.

chieveboy:


Yes, we are able to think it because it exists.

How did those thoughts exist in the first place, did God created them? Including the negative thoughts?

I tried to explain how in my recent response to Michael. Right now, we are all swimming in another city, place and Space. This is not even the Astral dimension o, not to talk of the Mental.

Are you refering to what is called the earth plane?

Mentions radio stations and time I can tune in listen to eckankar programmes.

chieveboy:


What you saw is real as far as reality in the lower world is concerned where Thought Substance is the building block of everything. What perhaps you need to do next is sing HU whenever you meet anyone in the inner plane. They remain if they are of pure intentions.

What do you mean @bolded, my friend that appeared behind the closed door is just there simply because I expect him to, there is no question of him having pure or impure intentions.

What do you think will happen if I sing HU in one of my lucid dreams? And do I have to belief in it before it can be effective for me?

We must not forget the law of imagination or thought, which is that no one can ever imagine or think of anything that does not exist.

Do you mean that the reason we are able to think or imagine a thing is because that thing already exist or thinking or imagining a thing cause it to exist in the lower world?

Michael547:

We are talking about evidences here that are attached to a claim not method of solving problems. If there are two scientifically contradictory evidence that are brought out as facts to a particular claim, one must be a lie.

You've assured me here that science does not lie based on evidence. But you also have clearly convinced me that there are contradictions in the evidence of science which has made you not to accept some of their claim as facts. Does that not show that there are lies in those so-called evidences?

You must remember that evidence is there to support a claim or a conclusion and it is possible for the evidence to be right and the conclusion to be wrong.

Example, if the fingerprint of Mr. A is found on a murder weapon, we can conclude/claim that Mr. A is the murderer. If along the line we found a cctv footage of Mr. B committing the said murder, then our conclusion about Mr A was wrong even though our evidence of his fingerprint was right. That's, the evidence of his fingerprint was not a lie (it is actually there on the murder weapon) but our conclusion was wrong.

Aemmyjah:


You don't even give him any place to hide or breathing space

Iru iro niborun

Michael547:

All this one you are saying is that the so-called evidence of science could be a lie....where there are two contradictory evidences, one is a lie. So even your science lies. Na wa oo😂.

Some things are not black and white as you think. For example, if a scientist wants to calculate or solve a problem that involves large objects (macro level) Newtonian physics will do. But this can't work for quantum entities like particles and electrons, he will then have to use quantum physics.
The fact that he can't use Newtonian physics to solve quantum problem doesn't mean Newtonian physics is a lie.

Michael547:

😂😂😂....na wa oo...what kind of evidence is this that you claim that science has? Evidence that gets one confused. Na wa oo.....are these evidences really the truth? Even you don't know which one to follow😂.

You're confused because you're looking for certainty. Science is not concern with certainty, its own is to provide an explanation for a phenomenon and then give evidence to support its claim. It will continue to hold on to that explanation supported by evidence until another evidence surfaces to dispute it.

Example, science initially view gravity as a force of attraction that objects with mass has to draw thing to itself and they have evidence to support that conclusion.

Then Einstein comes along and said no, gravity is not a force but a phenomenon that arises due to curvature in space time fabric and he was able to provide sufficient evidence to support this explanation.
In science, there is always room for improvement.

What do you mean by "I don't know which one to follow"? Nah religion?

chieveboy:


Yes it is. The Lucidity is what differentiates Dreaming from Soul Travel.
One misconception is that feeling of getting out of the body is compulsory. It is not.

The advanced stage of Soul Travel does not involve getting out of the body or that feeling. With eyes wide open, you 'collapse sight' (as a matter of saying) to See and Know instantly. Chances are everyone had had this experience before.

I'm a lucid dreamer and one thing I have learnt in my practice is how expectation shapes the content of the dream. For example, if I expect a friend I wish to see to be behind a closed door, he will be there, but I know that "friend" is just a projection from me, a thought form.

Now, instead of a friend let's assume I intend to encounter an Eck Master upon opening the door, he will also be there.

The question now is, is that a real Eck Master or a thought form created by my expectation.

Michael547:

😂😂😂.....you just claimed that science supports its claims by evidence and you are saying that you don't know if their conclusions is right?
Na wa oo....after all the evidence they've shown you😂😂?

Even scientists say the big bang theory is the best explanation they have for now for the origin of the universe, even though they have evidence to support it.

Also both Newtonian physics and quantum physics have very different notion of what reality is and yet both have evidence to support its claims.

Michael547:

Lol....does that mean that you don't agree on and accept what science says on the Matter?

I believe what science says on the matter but I don't know for a fact that their conclusion is right. Some scientists believe we live in a simulation of some sort.

Do you think it's possible to believe something to be true and yet not know for a fact that it's the truth??

Michael547:

Oh wonderful I thought you said you did not know.

I still don't know, you asked what science says about the subject and I told you.

Since science do not know why we are on earth, does that also mean you don't know why you are here?

I assume you know why we are here then, care to share??

Michael547:

So are you saying that science has not taught you how the universe appeared and why humans are on earth?

Science says our universe "appeared" because of a big bang that occurs billions of years ago. And they provided many evidences, one is the background cosmic radiation which is a leftover due to the big bang.
Another is the fact that distant stars are moving further away from us, which means the universe is expanding and if the universe is expanding we can logically assume it started from a point.

Science has nothing to say about why humans are on earth.

chieveboy:


Lol, they will get enlightened about that book.

Everyone goes home with some more Something.

Ok sha.

You didn't answer my previous question.

Is lucid dream the same as what you call soul travel.

Michael547:

Do you know any source that supports its claims by evidence?

Yes, science.

Michael547:

Oh really? I thought you knew. I would for answers elsewhere then.

Oh no, I don't know, search your answers elsewhere just make sure that elsewhere supports its claims with evidence not "it's true because I told you so"

chieveboy:


I suggest you grasp the earlier response especially about the classification of 'quoting'. A dead giveaway is a criminal's words are quoted against them. In this line of reasoning, the moment a criminal is quoted, it becomes "truth" as you would have it?




Indeed! This means wherever the bible contains anything to be true, it may be quoted without prejudice..



This is not how things work unfortunately. One will understand netter if "anchor points" are used in this case texts from the Christian Bible.

Moreover as i told you earlier, The texts within that book where never orginally written as contribution for a certain "Bible".

This means someone felt people need anchor points and took the liberty of compiling notes and letters to make one.

Lastly: I think you and Michael will get this whole "Bible quote' thing better if you reread the context and even the tone the bible was quited. You will see something completely different.

I hear you, but when the Christians start accusing you of cherry picking bible verses you should not blame them.

Michael547:

What is the truth on how the universe appeared and why humans are on earth?

Lol.... How could I possibly know that? I don't, do you?

chieveboy:



The materials in the Bible were borrowed from other religions, cultures and beliefs. They are Open-source. I am sure you have read it from childhood till today and may not know this.



Oh it is very very relevant. This relevance we can classify as Quantitative, Qualitative or both.

Quantitative: When it is quoted to highlight one of the many misleading contents within it as far as more advance information or truth is concerned

Qualitative: When it is quoted to highlight where any of the characters within it is saying something that aligns with truth or facts.

Even if we go with you comment here ,I say we can quote it as a way of pointing out the dangers of going with archaic, mundane or misleading information as in " don't be like Mr Paluga who does this and that and today he is wretched". It would be naïve should Mr Paluga begins to rejoice that he is being quoted to back up a gist. His ignorant head is merely on quantity and he feels relevant (which he is quantitively).

Millions for eons believe (without knowing or confirming) that Soul dies and they go to appease this angry deity who lied or is written to have said he can destroy Soul. These Millions form a Quantity.

Very few tow the narrow path of investigating things beyond what they are told or read. The advanced methods of investigation which this thread is about is that of travelling into the heavens without the body like Paul of in the Bible said.




I guess the Old Testament should be detached from the Christian Bible too because the whole of it was lifted from the Bible of another religion (Judaism).

Further, God, Jesus, Paul, Peter and all characters in the New Testament never asked that their acts, speeches and letters they sent to Corinth, Ephesus and all be collected hundreds of years later for it to rule the beliefs of people later on who believes an Igbo or Kalabari man can ever be a Jew by Faith.

So who gathered these letters, notes and another Bible to form the Christian Bible? This is the person I think should be issuing the command not to quote that book, not a Jew who is a Christian that must become a Jew when he became a Christian just so "his Soul" is not destroyed.

Do it adherents believe it's open source, moreover if you quote a bible verse to buttress your point you're in essence saying that your point is true because the bible also agrees with it.
Whereas truth is truth whether bible agrees with it or not.

It's better to buttress your points by pointing out that anyone can verify the truth of your claims by learning soul travel instead of quoting the bible.

chieveboy:



This thread is beyond the bible as you xan see. So do not of necessity need to peg it around the Bible, regardless if we quote it.

This is one issue I have with you and adherents of the grail message, why use the bible to back up your point? Stop quoting the bible, it's an archaic irrelevant book, stop giving it relevance by quoting it please.

Michael547:

You claimed the bible does lie.....it therefore means that you have the truth. Isn't it?

What truth?? Bola Ahmed Tinubu is the current president of Nigeria is a truth, lion is a carnivorous animal is a truth, goat cannot fly is also a truth. So what truth are you talking about specifically?

chieveboy:


I to in line with the current circumstance do not know what that thing is, Paul however implies one can go to heaven with it or without it.

Is lucid dream synonymous with soul travel??

Michael547:

Ok.....do you lie or you are filled with truth?

What does filled with truth mean??

Michael547:

So the bible is lying here right?

Lol... What is so special about the bible that it can't lie? You people sef.

lawbabs:


That scripture is higher than your mind can carry. It is by mercy you are saved for no one can come to God except God draws him to himself. That was why even though we were many friends who were preached to but only I submitted to the Lordship of Christ at the very time I gave my life to Christ. Am I better than them? No! Why did I make the choice, and those friends didn't? Mercy found me because God drew me.

It is only when you have been drawn to Christ that you now have the capacity to obey God.

Firstly, your God made these people inherit sin they didn't commit (which is totally unfair).

Secondly, he remedied the situation through human sacrifice of an innocent person. So those who believed in this human sacrifice will be saved.

Thirdly, it turns out that nobody can even believe in this human sacrifice without the "mercy" of this god. That is, he chooses who he wants to believe and leave the rest (according to the bolded).

All these business just reek of injustice of the highest order all through which makes one doubt the sanity of the adherents of this doctrine.

Omooba77:
What does Heaven Look like?

Forget what religions teach on this subject, they know not what they say. Accurate information on the subject has been provided us through the phenomenon of Mediumship.

A good book to start with is "Life in the World Unseen which can be downloaded here

https://new-birth.net/media/cms_page_media/220/Life_in_the_World_Unseen.pdf

Read the book and decide for yourself whether it doesn't make far more sense than what religions will have up believe.

There were little affairs, and I suppose, in their time and day they were considered big affairs, where peoples were at war - but now you think nothing of dropping 'a bomb' as you call it and wiping out thousands of people at the same time. It really seems to me that evil has become even more powerful on a vaster scale.


And yet you look upon yourselves as civilised human beings, and some of you look upon yourselves as Christians following the Christ. Others have their religious beliefs, equally sincere, possibly, no doubt.

But, it seems to me, that you're living in an age, in a time, in a world which has gone backwards rather than forwards.

And, I think, until you start thinking more deeply about the things that really matter; the things of the spirit and of the mind, and allow these things to take precedence and become uppermost, paramount importance in your lives...

The whole world is materialistic in its acrimonious approach - even those who profess to be religious. Most of them, so it seems to me, are acting and thinking in a hypocritical kind of way.

As a matter of fact I, the more I see of your world, the less I like it. And I certainly wouldn’t want to come back there, and I must say that if I thought that I could be of any real help or service in coming, I would.

But frankly, I can’t see what good I can do. I don’t really think that others on this side, whatever their intention of doing good, no matter how strong it may be, that they can hope to achieve very much.

Because even those who profess to know about this subject seem to me to be very little further advanced than the rest - if, in some senses, less far advanced. Indeed, their responsibilities are greater, but it doesn’t seem to me that they do very much or achieve very much.

I find it appalling that where there are people who have this knowledge of survival, of communication... uh, that you don’t get the spiritual and mental advancement that one would have expected.


One, therefore, can only assume that, in many instances, the contacts and links that are made are made with souls on a very similar vibration and condition to you Earth people yourselves. Of course, there are exceptions no doubt, but it does seem to me a tragedy, that if you have this opportunity of communication that you don’t make more good use of it.

It seems to me that you are achieving very little and therefore I don't really see what good you can hope to achieve by it - until at least more people understand and accept it and do something about it. It’s no good saying, 'oh yes, I get into touch with this or that person, and we have conversations and its very wonderful, and we know its true about life after death.'That will come quick enough, you'll die quick enough and find out for yourselves.

Unless you do something about it while you’re there and you really put your back into it and really get down to doing something of a spiritual nature, in such a material world as yours, all the effort seems to be pointless and in vain.

Personally, I wouldn’t want to come back regularly. I can't see there is any good or advantage in it for anyone. It certainly doesn’t seem to have made very much difference. The world seems to be worse than when I left it.


I can’t stay long. I’m sorry.

And now I’ve become so immersed in music that, um... perhaps that accounts, or one of the reasons why I’ve never been drawn back to Earth and that I am so happy in my life here and music in particular, that I do not feel the need or the urge to come back.

And I am sure there must be thousands, millions like me. And I am sure that, perhaps for some it is a good thing to return.



There are those who have, perhaps, specific, special work to do who are probably in themselves the right people for coming back to communicate, but I never have felt the urge. I wouldn’t like one to think that I’m so self-centred.

I wouldn’t like one to think that I was selfish, but I think there are people whose task it is to come back to communicate, to do some special work, perhaps for humanity. And there are others who, perhaps in their own way, do something of real consequence in their own environment.

Of course I do know that, although I’ve not been in the habit of coming back to Earth, I do know that my efforts in music have been of some help to souls, when we have gone into other planes and um, give... given to them our music, and I am sure it has been a great encouragement and a great help to them to raise themselves out of, sometimes, the darkness in which they find themselves.

There are many, many different places. I wouldn’t like you to think - as no doubt so many people think - that the Earth is the only world.

I think it is very wrong and very, shall we say, bumptious for people to assume that theirs is the only world. Yours is only one of many worlds, and there are many different stratas of intelligence and beings.

In fact, one might say that, to some extent, the Earth is one of the lesser progressed worlds. There are many worlds and... um, the Earth world is, in comparison to some, very backward.

Indeed, I would have thought that was very obvious to anyone with any intelligence - when you consider the age of your world and the generations of peoples that have inhabited it, that you are still, at this stage in your evolution, still talking and thinking about war.

You are still, indeed, making war. You have civil war. You have all sorts of diseases brought about by man’s foolishness and ignorance of stupidity. Indeed, I would go as far as to say that the Earth world is perhaps one of the most un-progressed worlds in the atmosphere, in the system, the solar system.


I don’t think people realise how little progress, in some respects, has been made. Though you’ve had great scientific progress, at the same time - although science may have benefited in some senses - it certainly hasn’t brought the world together in mind and in spirit.

It may have brought you closer together materially, but that’s not, in itself, necessarily such a good thing. If it were to combine the spiritual and the mental and the well-being of humanity, then that would be a different matter.


But when I see, as I have seen just recently into your world, the appalling mental conditions, the terrible attitude of mind of human beings, one towards the other, and how irrational you all are and how self-centred you are and how the whole world seems to be full of hatred and intolerance - it hasn’t learned hardly anything at all.

You may flatter yourselves that you’ve progressed in some respects, but actually in some respects its worse than it’s been for centuries.

And here I seemed to, quite naturally, take up again my music, and I suppose it shouldn't have been to my surprise, but my father encouraged it and was delighted when I started again to seriously take an interest in music.

And, on one occasion, quite early on in my being here, he said, 'Well would you like to go to a concert?' I was highly delighted, but at the same time, surprised that he should suggest such a thing because he had little or no time for the arts.

He was very much towards business and never had any time for music and arts, in particular. But I said, 'Yes, of course, I would.' But I was a bit puzzled. He said, 'Oh well, we will go.'

So, I was taken to my first concert in a vast, vast building. Oh, so vast, that I thought as I entered, not only how magnificent and beautiful it was, but at the same time, I couldn't help thinking to myself the vastness of this place. Surely if one sat in some parts of this place, you wouldn't hear very much.

But I was amazed and surprised at the acoustic properties and the clear-cut sound, and a vast orchestra of what appeared to be, to me at least though it was impossible to count, but several hundred musicians - and many of the instruments which they had were completely unfamiliar to me.


And there were several pianos, not just one, as one would perhaps expect in a concert, perhaps two, one would have thought, but here there seemed to be at least twenty pianos. Goodness knows how many violins. Indeed it was the vastest orchestra I'd ever seen, and the sound was... well, beyond description.


But the extraordinary thing was, behind this great orchestra was what appeared to be a large wall, expanse of wall, which had the appearance of being made of some sort of substance which seemed to give off all kind of hue in colouring.

It was extraordinary, it seemed to scintillate, and the whole of this background seemed to change according to the music. Sometimes it would be suffused with the palest of colours, and occasionally there would be flashes of brilliant reds, and blues, and greens and colours, indeed, some of which I couldn't even begin to describe.

And it seemed as if all this colour had some connection with the music, according to the passage of the music that was being played, so this seemed to act as a... in such a way, as to depict in colour the scene or idea of the music.


And yet... after this, of course, I went to many such concerts, and since then I have met many musicians, and I’ve always, as I've said, been interested in music and I have met many great musicians and composers.

And yet I couldn't really say that either my father, or for that matter, myself, were particularly over-generous people. We were sensible, we helped people it's true and we were particularly good to our workpeople.

But evidently, from what I gathered, that as you live, to some extent, that must and does affect your way of life over here and what reception you have. So, evidently, we couldn't have been so bad. We'd made for ourselves some preparation, without our even realising it!

My father was very orthodox. I was not an orthodox man as far as religion was concerned, but my father was strictly orthodox. But of course, I soon gathered that this orthodox outlook of religion had changed very much and he was no longer thinking on the old lines.

And it seems to me that I lived in a very natural, happy way for a time with my people and I must say that, in many respects, our life was very like it had been in my youth - early years on Earth. The only thing that I began to realise was that one seemed to have no need for food nor drink.


At first this puzzled me. I thought, I couldn't understand why I didn't have this desire. It was a natural thing, as far as my Earth life was concerned. Indeed, I was very fond of food until my illness made it impossible to eat a great deal.

And, um, the idea of being fit and well and yet having no longer the desire for food and drink seemed in a sense unnatural.


And for that matter, I never saw anything in the way of food, although there were times when fruit was available. Whether this was, in some sort of way, a thought - and I think possibly it must have been - there were times when possibly one desired it or felt the desire for it and there it was. But very seldom did one eat fruit or eat anything or desire to drink anything.


The thing that interested and appealed to me most in those early formative years - if I can so use them over here - was the desire to continue studies which my father had stopped.

When I was quite young I had shown a tendency towards music, and my mother encouraged me in this, and for about two to three years I was allowed to have lessons.


But I think my father began to feel that this was becoming too important in my life and I was sent away to a school and music was dropped completely. And I’d always sort of, in my later years, regretted it.

Because I was a great one for going to the opera. I hardly ever missed a season at Covent Garden and many recitals that I used to go, the great musicians of my day. Indeed, whatever time I could spare I would give to music.