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Religion / Re: Atheists Can Be Moral (concept Of Moral Mandala) by justlove91(m): 3:26pm On Oct 16, 2023 |
MaxInDHouse:Science has established the truth of evolution, and if evolution is true, then there is no "first human pair" and if there is not, then the whole edifice you built up there comes falling down. Cause and effect doesn't depend on anybody's viewpoints, it doesn't care about good or bad, it doesn't judge, It's just like a mirror reflecting who we're to us. You think There is a better way to handle them than killing them all. |
Religion / Re: Atheists Can Be Moral (concept Of Moral Mandala) by justlove91(m): 2:47pm On Oct 16, 2023 |
budaatum:Oh my God, you're also taking the analogy too literally. Yes, I do not know. Messages received through mediums report there is a law of cause and effect acting over there but since I've not been over there, I can only say I believe, I can't say I know. As I said earlier, the messages say the law acts over there, you can view it as we setting the cause over here and getting the reciprocal effect over there. Karma doesn't have limit, it just doesn't work here as it does there and that's why it makes sense to have legal law here. I mean it just as when I say "Gravity was put in place" not as a prescriptive law but as a descriptive law. You're being dramatic. |
Religion / Re: Atheists Can Be Moral (concept Of Moral Mandala) by justlove91(m): 2:22pm On Oct 16, 2023 |
Blitzerz:It is a descriptive law not a prescriptive law. |
Religion / Re: Atheists Can Be Moral (concept Of Moral Mandala) by justlove91(m): 2:19pm On Oct 16, 2023 |
MaxInDHouse:That is a good question and one can as well ask "If there is a just and all powerful God, why does he allow bad things to happen to good people?" No we don't, we only need to "fear" the law of cause and effect. OK, who are these people? Where will he put all the evildoers then? |
Religion / Re: Atheists Can Be Moral (concept Of Moral Mandala) by justlove91(m): 1:36pm On Oct 16, 2023 |
MaxInDHouse:@bolded You're taking my seed analogy too literally, there is nothing/nobody that can interrupt the workings of the law of cause and effect. There is nobody or spirit or supreme being that can prevent me from experiencing the reciprocal effect of the good or bad I do. Now if people really see this, understand it and live by it, we wouldn't need legal laws but people don't, that's why we need legal laws to create some semblance of peace among ourselves. Oda, what is the Supreme being doing presently to help us have a better future? |
Religion / Re: Atheists Can Be Moral (concept Of Moral Mandala) by justlove91(m): 1:21pm On Oct 16, 2023 |
budaatum:Good points. It's definitely good to compel at first but we would have to move past that to educating them. Just as it is good to compel your kids to brush their teeth but still need to educate them on why they should brush their teeth, that is more sustainable. [/quote] |
Religion / Re: Atheists Can Be Moral (concept Of Moral Mandala) by justlove91(m): 1:05pm On Oct 16, 2023 |
MaxInDHouse:Let me explain how I believe this works. So you have an uncultivated land around your house, you can plant whatever you want. You can plant fruit trees, flower, weed, poisonous plant etc and the ground will support its growth without any question. In my OP I said I believe in the law of sowing and reaping which means for every deed (action) its reciprocal effect is bound to come back, this law tends to our deeds as the soil tends to seed, giving us its harvest sooner or later. So, with this law in place, you don't need a Supreme being to tell you what is right or wrong. You only need to know whatever you put out will come back to you, so if I want to reap good I will plant good and if I want to reap evil, I will make sure I plant evil. Nobody is judging. The only reason I tell people to plant good is because I know people will want to reap good and you can't plant evil hoping to reap good, it doesn't work like that just as you can't plant weed and hope flowers to bloom around your house. So, we don't need a Supreme being to give out morals(dos and don'ts). |
Religion / Re: Atheists Can Be Moral (concept Of Moral Mandala) by justlove91(m): 11:29am On Oct 16, 2023 |
MaxInDHouse:You're correct, but I will word it differently. The reason I feel safe driving on the road is because there is punishment for reckless driving and nobody wants to be punished so I can trust or assume people will drive safely. But if there is civil war and no agents to arrest offenders then I can assume people may not drive safely so I wouldn't feel safe driving. |
Religion / Re: Atheists Can Be Moral (concept Of Moral Mandala) by justlove91(m): 11:21am On Oct 16, 2023 |
budaatum:That's true, but not all stories there are good, one should learn to discern, but if I can discern between good and bad already why should I read it?? You're correct I'm not trying to force anybody, it's just nice to be good for goodness sake and if one chooses to be moral for selfish reasons, that's cool also, atleast it will still accomplish our ideal (living peacefully among ourselves). A welcome bonus. |
Religion / Re: Atheists Can Be Moral (concept Of Moral Mandala) by justlove91(m): 7:46pm On Oct 15, 2023 |
budaatum:How so? Indulge me, what do you think I mean by Moral mandala? Or do you not think we'd be a bit more selfish if Jesus is not preached to some?Why wound you want to preach Jesus to people?? By the way, I'm not a Christian. |
Religion / Re: Atheists Can Be Moral (concept Of Moral Mandala) by justlove91(m): 5:20pm On Oct 15, 2023 |
budaatum:This man... Oda, it is the business and all those other things. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Religion / Re: Atheists Can Be Moral (concept Of Moral Mandala) by justlove91(m): 4:11pm On Oct 15, 2023 |
budaatum:As I said you're simply a business man and there is nothing wrong with that. |
Religion / Re: Atheists Can Be Moral (concept Of Moral Mandala) by justlove91(m): 4:08pm On Oct 15, 2023 |
budaatum:If you built the hospital for the sole purpose of building wealth, then you're neither good nor bad (so far people get the treatment they paid for), you're just a business man just like if I sell you a bag of rice and get paid, I'm neither good nor bad, I'm just doing business. |
Religion / Re: Atheists Can Be Moral (concept Of Moral Mandala) by justlove91(m): 3:16pm On Oct 15, 2023 |
triplechoice:It is hard but it's practicable. It seems you do not understand the concept of moral mandala well. It doesn't mean there is no motivation for doing good but that the motivation is humanity orientated and not self orientated. Let me give examples of moral mandala. 1. I'm wealthy, I noticed people in my village are suffering from poor health due to no access to pure source of water. I decide to improve their living condition by building hospital and provide pure source of water. In the above scenario, I have a motivation but the motivation is directed at them (improve their living condition) and not directed at me (to gain fame or be viewed as a good person, or to gain favour from God etc). 2. A house is burning, you rushed inside to save a child inside. Saving the child is your motivation and not becoming a hero. My bad |
Religion / Re: Atheists Can Be Moral (concept Of Moral Mandala) by justlove91(m): 2:26pm On Oct 15, 2023 |
triplechoice:I'm not condemning or judging anyone harshly for doing good because of God, I believe it's better than doing bad because of God. And if you read OP well you will see where I said I wish I do not believe in law of sowing and reaping so as to practice moral mandala much more. This means I still do good with the intention of reaping good in mind. I just find the concept of moral mandala such more appealing. I do not believe this, as a Spiritist I believe in afterlife, law of sowing and reaping and channeled messages through mediums. All messages channelled through medium agree that what motivates an action is much more relevant than the action itself in the life beyond. |
Religion / Re: Atheists Can Be Moral (concept Of Moral Mandala) by justlove91(m): 1:50pm On Oct 15, 2023 |
MaxInDHouse:We do not agree on the traffic law because it was set by those who are supreme but because the reciprocal effect of the law will accomplish our ideal which is to drive safely on the road. If the "SUPREME" decides to remove traffic light from junctions and tell us all to drive however we want, do you think we would all agree because they are "SUPREME"? No! why? Because the reciprocal effect of such decision will not accomplish our ideal (driving save on the road). |
Religion / Re: Atheists Can Be Moral (concept Of Moral Mandala) by justlove91(m): 1:41pm On Oct 15, 2023 |
@triplechoice This only applies to the second guy, the first guy has already bought the charger, had given it to her so the good is already completed, but he went back and nullify the good. I don't understand what you mean here. I'm happy you don't support such behaviour. My friends are actually the ladies telling me of their unpleasant experience with guys. |
Religion / Re: Atheists Can Be Moral (concept Of Moral Mandala) by justlove91(m): 1:13pm On Oct 15, 2023 |
triplechoice:So we can both agree there are two ways to use "Good" - As a mean to an end (the politician) - As an end in itself. The question of which is better remain subjective. To me, the first "good" is like replacing all flowers on earth with plastic flowers, the earth will still look beautiful but it wouldn't be an alive beauty, it will be a pancake beauty, a cosmetic. |
Religion / Re: Atheists Can Be Moral (concept Of Moral Mandala) by justlove91(m): 1:02pm On Oct 15, 2023 |
MaxInDHouse:Just as we all agree on our traffic law. |
Religion / Re: Atheists Can Be Moral (concept Of Moral Mandala) by justlove91(m): 6:43am On Oct 15, 2023 |
MaxInDHouse: "Life doesn't have an inherent purpose but it is an opportunity to create purpose," Roy T. Bennett You are walking down the road, you saw a snake on your path, there is a stick laying on the ground, you picked it to scare the snake away. Prior to you using the stick, it has no purpose but you gave it a purpose. Prior to emergence of human as self conscious beings, life doesn't have a purpose (animals don't give life any purpose) but human can give life a purpose even if it doesn't have an inherent purpose. So, if someone feels his life has no purpose or meaning, he can create one and such a person has to value morality if he wants to live in human society. If he can manage to leave the earth and live on the moon then he doesn't have to care or value morality. 2 Likes |
Religion / Re: Atheists Can Be Moral (concept Of Moral Mandala) by justlove91(m): 8:51pm On Oct 14, 2023 |
LordReed: Do you realise that our legal system takes motivation into account if it could be established. For example shooting someone due to self defense or accidental discharge. |
Religion / Re: Atheists Can Be Moral (concept Of Moral Mandala) by justlove91(m): 8:32pm On Oct 14, 2023 |
LordReed: But they wouldn't have taken the additional bad actions if the first actions were taken with good intention. |
Religion / Re: Atheists Can Be Moral (concept Of Moral Mandala) by justlove91(m): 8:25pm On Oct 14, 2023 |
Blitzerz:I can't answer whether euthanasia is good or bad, as for abortion, I believe it is bad and should be avoided by avoiding unwanted pregnancies. |
Religion / Re: Atheists Can Be Moral (concept Of Moral Mandala) by justlove91(m): 8:17pm On Oct 14, 2023 |
LordReed: @bolded I will reply you by pasting my reply to triplechoice that I asked you to read earlier showing that sometimes the good being done change if the motive is not right. You see, motive is very important because if a good is used as a means to an end and the end is not realised, people tend to destroy the good. Let me give two examples. These happened to two of my friends. 1. The laptop charger of a friend got spoilt so it became stressful to charge her laptop because she has to wait for others to finish charging and the light was not stable. This guy offered (she didn't ask him to) to buy her a charger with the intention that through that she will agree to his advances. When the guy got rejected again after buying the charger, he angrily collected the charger back and destroyed it to spite her. 2. She was out on the street, it was about to rain. A guy offered to give her a lift but with the intention of getting her number. After driving for some minutes, it starts to rain, one thing lead to another, he asked for her number, she declined, and can you guess what the guy did? He dropped her on the road while it was still raining. Those guys used the "good" as a means to an end but when the end was not achieved they destroyed the good. |
Religion / Re: Atheists Can Be Moral (concept Of Moral Mandala) by justlove91(m): 8:03pm On Oct 14, 2023 |
Anjinsan:But you agree the god of the stoic is not the same as religious god. Their god is more of an Einstein god and like you rightly mentioned they sometimes refer to it is nature. And I don't undermine the work done by mother Teresa for humanity. |
Religion / Re: Atheists Can Be Moral (concept Of Moral Mandala) by justlove91(m): 7:54pm On Oct 14, 2023 |
Blitzerz: So they consulted the bible before they abolish slavery?? @bolded Remember in my reply to you, I didn't mention consent but effect. To answer your question, have you heard of Euthanasia? In case you haven't Euthanasia refers to the practice of intentionally ending the life of a person or animal to relieve suffering, typically in cases of severe illness, pain, or incurable conditions. 1 Like |
Religion / Re: Atheists Can Be Moral (concept Of Moral Mandala) by justlove91(m): 7:36pm On Oct 14, 2023 |
LordReed: Why are we even discussing this, it is a no brainer that the intention that prompted a giving is as important as what was given. Let's assume your business is failing, which of these friends would you accept help from (assuming you know their intentions). 1. Sees it as an opportunity he can later use to boast in your face that he was the one that saved you from bankruptcy. 2. Wanted to help because he valued your friendship and doesn't want to see you bankrupt. |
Religion / Re: Atheists Can Be Moral (concept Of Moral Mandala) by justlove91(m): 7:11pm On Oct 14, 2023 |
LordReed: He would not care but he wound prefer you had treated him as a person. And it is more than that, see my reply to triplechoice above |
Religion / Re: Atheists Can Be Moral (concept Of Moral Mandala) by justlove91(m): 7:08pm On Oct 14, 2023 |
triplechoice: You see, motive is very important because if a good is used as a means to an end and the end is not realised, people tend to destroy the good. Let me give two examples. These happened to two of my friends. 1. The laptop charger of a friend got spoilt so it became stressful to charge her laptop because she has to wait for others to finish charging and the light was not stable. This guy offered (she didn't ask him to) to buy her a charger with the intention that through that she will agree to his advances. When the guy got rejected again after buying the charger, he angrily collected the charger back and destroyed it to spite her. 2. She was out on the street, it was about to rain. A guy offered to give her a lift but with the intention of getting her number. After driving for some minutes, it starts to rain, one thing lead to another, he asked for her number, she declined, and can you guess what the guy did? He dropped her on the road while it was still raining. Those guys used the "good" as a means to an end but when the end was not achieved they destroyed the good. |
Religion / Re: Atheists Can Be Moral (concept Of Moral Mandala) by justlove91(m): 6:33pm On Oct 14, 2023 |
LordReed: This is not about feeling superior or inferior, it's about making the good an end in itself and not as a means to an end. Would you rather give money to a hungry beggar on the street because you don't him to go hungry (at least for the moment) or would you rather give because, then you can post it on your page and it will boost your fame and followers? Of course, either way the beggar will not go hungry but which motive do you think he would prefer it rather be? |
Religion / Re: Atheists Can Be Moral (concept Of Moral Mandala) by justlove91(m): 6:18pm On Oct 14, 2023 |
triplechoice: What I mean by that in the context of the example is that the rich man ought to build the hospital or charity organisation simply for the improved health and living condition the people will get, that is making the people the end. Rather than taking those actions as a stepping stone on the way to his end (political power or fame), that is making the people the means to an end. |
Religion / Re: Atheists Can Be Moral (concept Of Moral Mandala) by justlove91(m): 3:23pm On Oct 14, 2023 |
Blitzerz: Nobody defines good or bad, it is the effect from the action that does (whether it meets our ideal or not). For example, we've the ideal of building a peaceful and loving society, now, we decide to make theft lawful, will the effect from making theft lawful meets/accomplish our ideal? No, therefore theft is bad. Lesbianism and homosexuality is now "good" because the countries do not see any effect from it that undermines their ideal. What effects do you think come from homosexuality that threaten our ideal to build a peaceful and loving society? |
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