₦airaland Forum

EzeUche:
Ghana is the most likely, but that country has problems. I used to say Kenya as well but the Luo and Kikuyu need to see pass their difference. Ethiopia borders haven't changed much in its history except with Eritrea breaking away, but it has not been blessed with leaders who care about their people.

I agree and Ethiopia also set an awesome example for the rest of Africa back during the scramble for Africa. They knew of the importance of modernizing their military and successfully defended their country against the Italians. They were the only African country (including the more technologically advanced North African countries) to successfully defend themselves against colonialism. They've also been one of the most powerful nations historically and hence one of the oldest continuous countries in the world. I think the big reasons why they are in such terrible shape today is the effects of European monopoly on everything around them which disturbed the natural balance of their economy that had grown and developed on its own over centuries. Also the fact that the Sahara is quickly encroaching on the country which is causing many famines. Lastly I just feel that their sense of self-reliance and historical pride has had a reverse effect on them as a people making them become complacent and unwilling to change their historical ways. Basically the complete opposite of what they did in the past to resist colonialism.

Obviously most African nations today are an artificial invention with artificial borders cut out for the white man's convenience. However some countries borders are closer to the precolonial kingdoms than others one example being Egypt. Of all the black African nations, I think I'll bet Ghana would be the first. It was only divided up into 2 kingdoms and a few tribes before white intervention and of those 2 kingdoms, one was a tributary state of the other. The Ashante people have been and continue to be relatively successful and organized compared to most of sub-saharan Africa. Ghana has also had very little conflicts as far as wars are concerned and are moving in a good direction. Nigeria would be easily as rich and powerful as any western nation if it weren't for the ridiculous amount of corruption and selfishness in the government. Anyway what are your opinions? I hope to God that during my life time, one of the sub-saharan countries will rise above and pave the way for the rest. I'm an American myself but I sympathize with Africa's stance in the world. They are never taken seriously and always associated with the lesser. What are your opinions?

Thank you very much. Very useful information! I'd be curious to know if they utilized cast iron technology for firearms and to what extent. I'd also be curious to know why they didn't produce their own weapons in mass so that they didn't rely on imports.

Where can I get this movie? I've been searching for movies and documentaries about precolonial Africa for years?

Mambofiend:
Yes, West African iron production predates the AD era. This was before any known Arab or European contact.




http://wysinger.homestead.com/Ancient-African-City-Jenne-jeno.html

I never asked if they developed iron technology. My question is if they had "Cast iron" I'm very well aware that Africans were manufacturing iron tools in bloomeries but what about casts?

kingston277: China was isolated for millenia but that didn't stop them from being on top. More archaeology needs to be done in Africa before such assertions are made. Did you know Africans have been documented building submarines in the 19th century?
[url]http://books.google.ca/books?id=XsHB69txxdEC&pg=PA92&lpg=PA92&dq=sierra+leone+alligator+society+submarine&source=bl&ots=DGbNOSsGV0&sig=fO2Cxi4VdLD4L9JHVMxdM8EV3X8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=dwfhU5GYC4qayASh_ILADA&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=sierra%20leone%20alligator%20society%20submarine&f=false[/url]

Since when was China isolated?? You obviously haven't heard of the silk road. I would quote and link it but it's not letting me do it on phone for some reason. Anyway it says that the silk road shaped civilizations like China, Arabia, Persia, and India. The exchange of ideas bolstered their development. Notice all of the civililizations on the silk road were the most advanced? Europe was only able to catch up to them in the last few hundred years because of their advanced seagoing ships. Search silk road on Wikipedia.

kingston277: Not exactly true.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nsibidi

I've heard of this before.This was not a formal script taught in schools or made into books though was it? I'm pretty sure it was restricted to secret societies and mostly used on pottery.

macof: I doubt Africans gained knowledge of gun powder from Europeans, Maybe Arabs but not Europeans.
Btw The fon people in West Africa are said to have had women soldiers wielding weapons with gun power long before European contact

Most Sub-Saharan Africans acquired their knowledge of gunpowder from Europeans. It was the North Africans who gained it from Arabs

Chinaimporter: If by west african,u mean indigineous ones like ijaw..non but if you mean migrant ones like the igbos the yes.cast iron was discovered by the igbos around 2500bc .The true origin of the igbos lies in the sumerian city of ur near the site on ancient babylonia.the igbos establist the ubaid dynasty headed by the great igbo king meshanepada who built a ziggurat in honor of the great god nnanna(also called nanna in sumerian and sin in akkadian) who asked the igbos to migrate to other part of the world to spread civilization in the then young world. Igbos then invented the first alphabet called the cuneiform and left babylon under an igbo family called the Akadians who where the ancestors of modern arabs,Ethiopians and jews through a former sheperd of igbo orign called abraham.
The igbos then migrated to perisia which they civilized and gave her first royal dynasty and their god called Ahura mazda(i hi ura mu aza gi meaning he who answers me in my sleep)
From there they went to ancient egypt where they civilized and gave her first pyramids and also sent a delegation th civilized the barbarians in the north called the greeks.it should be noted that some of the greatest greek men where igbos eg aristotle(erie asi tolu uto), pythagoras(bia ta ara) achilles( aku ili) etc.
The igbos also enslaved the isrealites in both babylonia and Egypt and after they got tired of the city life they migrated to eastern nigeria while civilizing the Nubians, yorubas,fulanis etc on there way.it should be noted that oduduwa and bayegida were all igbos in oduduwa case yoruba legend holds that he is a fair man from the east. The igos are not desended from jews or egyptians rather thses people are all desended from the igbos and and unbiased historical evaluation would prove that

If you're gonna make things up, can you at least try to be clever? At least have some evidence? Lastly answer my question instead of making an entirely new topic. Be proud of your own history and stop trying to steal others.

shadowwalker101: Why r u people always disturbing me post ur own make I post my own

Because you're a dumbass, that's why. You obviously don't know what forums are for.

MetaPhysical: We cannot at all times rely on written records as the authoritative evidence for historical facts. There are elements of hand crafting in bronze works and wax and stone arts, as well limestone that predated writing and passed down through oral media.

Our brass, bronze, wax, limestone, clay casts were native knowledge that predated Europeans access and have been assessed and valued as world class, why would it be a mystery or a wonder that an iron cast also existed as a parallel craftsmanship in precolonial Africa?

That's exactly why I asked the question. They were definitely familiar with the principles behind casting in metals but I've never seen or heard any mention of iron casting taking place outside of eurasia other than the Haya people of Tanzania. Even then, I am unable to find any images of their tools or furnaces.

MetaPhysical: I think this discussion is wrongly placed. The topic is inquiring about development and use of cast iron by Africans, it is preemptive to conclude that cast iron, or any alloy of iron for that matter, is only useful in the manufacture of guns.

How about cauldrons, arrow tips, spears, hoes, cutlass, fish hooks, ....so many household implements were made of iron.

Yes, the African had preknowledge and utility of iron before encounter with Europeans. I know Yorubas, and few other cultures as well, had ironsmiths proficient in iron smelting and moulding and it is a cultural craft practiced for centuries.

Yes that is true but as far as I know, that was all made from bloomeries. Cast Iron was a necessity for precision parts such as muskets. If you make an item by hand such as a gun part or a cogwheel, human error will likely cause it to function improperly. Cast iron allowed you to mass produce items in moulds of the same size and shape.

kingston277: I read in an archaeology book that caste-iron was created both intentionally and unintentionally across the continent, but likely wasn't used much until the arrival of gun manufacturing.

What was the name of the book?

Seun is Nigeran, and he named the Forum "Nairaland" for his Nigerian People.

Again I ask, Who is on Whose Forum?...

Now... Moving on my Tiny Primitive Brained Fellow American Negro....

Can you explain to the forum...and the viewing public why you claim to be married...

yet when you first came to nairaland your very first created thread was a perversion laced journey into a voyage embarking upon procuring Igbo Women?

Under the false gist of a fake picture, that you posted of a male model below?

.....Care to Explain?



https://i47.tinypic.com/149xuyt.png

https://i50.tinypic.com/24gunat.png

https://i50.tinypic.com/23th5xj.png

https://i48.tinypic.com/28ahm5z.png

That is hilarious

PAPAAFRICA: Great Benin Pg.124

Why do you think they resorted to melee infantry despite these capabilities? Also do you think that they adopted cast iron from Europeans or do you think it was an indigenous development? They certainly had an advanced iron industry and were certainly masters at casting other metals like copper, brass, and bronze. Iron requires a significantly higher melting point to cast though and I've seen or heard no evidence of it developing anywhere outside of Eurasia. But of course nobody ever wants to teach of the achievements of Africa.

Sorry if this is the wrong forum category but I couldn't find one more appropriate. Europeans and Asians have been developing cast iron for centuries. Africans definitely had well developed iron technology but when you look at history, European technology was slow to be adopted by Africans. For example, though many African Kingdoms made wide usage of firearms, they still relied HEAVILY on imports to keep their arsenals full. The Japanese on the other hand adopted firearms quickly from Europeans and went on to produce their own local versions as well as improve upon European designs. Did Africans ever produce European weapons locally? If not, why? Did they lack certain technological requirements such as cast iron?

KidStranglehold: Ashanti Warriors
https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2754/4438179846_4a624a726a.jpg

Ashanti-Anglo Wars:

Of the many scattered imperial, inter-state, or civil conflicts which comprise the martial history of Africa, most certainly the longest and drawn out conquests & military actions were the wars waged in the Gold Coast, by the British Empire in what is now the Republic of Ghana in West Africa.
[img]http://1.bp..com/-S2vGEC3xccg/UPjoNjCkHyI/AAAAAAAADE4/5O-Bj00aHN0/s400/Ashanti+War.jpg[/img]

Of the most powerful tribes and cultures, the Asante Empire (alternatively Ashanti or Ashantee) becomes arguably the most powerful military power in all of Africa’s history, perhaps only challenged by the Zulu of South Africa and maybe even the Mahdist warriors of Sudan, Egypt, and Ethiopia in the late 1890's.

Starting in the early 1700’s with King Osei Tutu and continuing with his successor Opoku Ware, the Asante Empire with its capital at Kumasi, were unquestionably the strongest military presence in West Africa in the 1700’s and 1800’s. Eventually they would only be rivaled by a modern British Army who campaigned in 1873-1874.

One major factor in the Asante’s dominance over their Empire was the amount of muskets that they were able to trade for with their countries great wealth in gold, which was used as a status symbol amongst the royalty and upper classes of the Asante.

Trading with Europeans, Arabs, and Asians (Malaysians, Indians, Chinese) who came to West Africa in search of slaves, gold, and plunder beginning in the late 1400’s with the Portuguese and continuing with the Dutch and the later the British, who established a protectorate in 1821 in part due to the Act of Parliament which outlawed the Slave Trade in 1807 (outlawing slavery in 1833).

Britain’s long standing war with the Asante came about in the midst of the great imperial age in which most of Europe brutally carved up Africa for colonial-economic interests. The Gold Coast was no exception and the British were careful to appease the Asante Empire with treaties of ‘friendship’ in 1817 and open trade into the 1860’s.

To highlight the scale of the Gold Coast musket trade, Britain alone sold over 52,000 guns plus 2 million pounds of gunpowder in just 1829, in the 1830’s the Asante empire place orders for tens of thousands of muskets to the Dutch to further their advantage against their neighboring enemies in the Gold Coast. Together with the slave trade, and the world’s appetite for gold, firearms sales were pivotal to the growing conflict that developed between Queen Victoria’s Empire and the Empire of the Asante Kings.

Militarily speaking the Asante dominated their native African foes to the northern tribes and the Fante tribal confederacy to the south because of their firearms. They became the only African empire of the 1800’s to employ large numbers of musket/rifle firing soldiers who could fire in volley or at least bring sustained fire at enemies very close when commanded to by their tribal officers and royal generals.

Though renowned for their discipline, and for their fighting prowess & courage like the Zulu of 1879, the Asante of 1873-1874 like the Zulu fives years later were dreadfully inaccurate with their firearms seeing as most were outdated. Even worse they fired antique musket balls ignited by inferior and sometimes volatile cheap gunpowder sold to them by opportunistic European traders.



Opposing force, British Army 1823-1874

Throughout the most critical and major uprisings of the Anglo-Asante Wars 1823 to 1874, the British army as a case study of imperial armies is nothing short of fascinating. Just as the Asante warriors are fascinating for their unique cultural and social identities as they relate to warfare, the British army was a product of its own diverse and somewhat close knit military system that held the queen, the regiment, the officers, and then lastly the enlisted man in highest esteem.

The British Army of the first Anglo-Asante War was essentially a Napoleonic force under the governor general of Sierra Leone Sir Charles McCarthy. Later in the Third Anglo-Asante War and into the Zulu War, the British army, at least its land forces were markedly different institutions, beginning to modernize and move away from the old way of military thinking that dominated the English military branches from 1799-c.1855. Still however "old ways die hard" and the change was moderate, only completely changing into middle of the Great War in 1915-1916.

One very ironic commonality which can be found in the history of the British Army throughout the imperial age is that very few of the fighting men were indeed British by birth in many of the regiments on campaign. The majority were Welsh, Scots, Irish, Canadian, Australian, New Zealanders, Indian, Sikh, West Indian, or any number of differing cultural and ethnic backgrounds recruited as levies, private soldiers, and commissioned & career officers for service in Her Majesties armed forces, during the many campaigns of Queen Victoria’s reign 1837-1901.

Sir Charles McCarthy (b.1764-1824), an Irishman, killed in the first great Asante victory over the British near the Pra River in 1824, represents the two separate, unequal, and markedly different groups of the British army during the imperial age. He was both a gentleman officer but somewhat of an outsider since he was Irish born. Regardless he was a well respected officer who had served a number of positions in Africa before being elected Governor of Sierra Leon.

Having supreme confidence that his numerically inferior forces could defeat the Asante in the field, Sir Charles divided his forces (the great equalizer in imperialist/colonialist conflicts from 1800-1900) then blundered into an ambush trying to find his other columns. In a bloody assault which showcased the signature battle tactic of the Asante Empire’s forces, over 180 British army soldiers lay dead, more than 80 were wounded many dieing of wounds later.

With few of his men escaping the carnage, Sir Charles shot himself rather than be taken alive, the Asante apparently beheading him and then cutting out his heart and consuming it. (H.J. Ricketts, Narrative of the Ashantee (Asante) War, London:1831). As was the tradition in many African warrior cultures of the era, if a slain enemy had fought bravely an organ was consumed from the courageous warrior to imbibe the living with even more power, a frightful image then as it is now, an important part of the battlefield psyche of this era and if exaggerated in use and practice.

Wolseley's campaign marked the change from the Napoleonic style army of Sir Charles era, to a more professional and prepared force led by younger, more ambitious officers who had studied military tactics and strategy scientifically as opposed to classically. These read histories of more modern conflicts like the American Civil War 1861-1865, and former accounts of explorers and scouts to familiarize themselves with the Gold Coast specifically in 1872-1873.

However the men and officers of the Imperial Age still looked down on the warriors of Africa during this era, known by imperialist officers and veterans at home in the years after as 'Dark' or 'Darkest' Africa for the imagery of savagery and violence conjured up by the sometimes blatant racist attitudes taken towards African enemies and allies (native levies, trained volunteers) during the Imperial Age.

Read more here:
http://warfarehistorian..com/2012/10/anglo-asante-wars-1824-1906-hundred.html

Man I plan on writing a novel on the Ashanti-Anglo wars. The Ashanti's were like the most bad*ss and unbeatable fighting force in Africa during that time. You know you are bad*ss when you beat the British in five wars. I think the Zulu's are way overrated and are given way too much credit. The Ashanti's did way better against the British than the Zulu's....

Amen to that! I often wonder why you never hear anything about the Ashante. You are the first like-minded person I've seen.

Hertsnite: Without colonialism Africa would still be in the stone age/iron age hunting with spears and living in mud huts.

Are you kidding me? Africans have been forging iron and steel weapons longer than Europeans have. The oldest steel found in history was made by the Haya people of Tanzania. The people of the Baganda Kingdom were making steel in a manner so sophisticated that Europeans could not even emulate it until the 19th century. Africans as a whole were well out of the stone age before they even knew white men existed. The Nubian Kingdom was alive and well before Egypt and while Europe with the exception of the Greeks and Romans were living in wooden/mud huts and full of nomadic barbarians. Do your research before insulting the culture of an entire continent.

eyenCalabar: What is actually wrong in my advice to that guy? Is it not what Yoruba monarchs like or is it me that invented that form of greetings? BTW, what is wrong in lying down or bowing to greet an elder? Mind you, he is the one who needs something, not me so he has to be humble to get it right. It's just a show of humility and that's all. Oh! Because the guy said he's an American that's what is making you guy's head big to insult me. This is how even an Arab man would come and control you in your own land because you don't value anything about yourself. Or it'll be okay if he greets your village head with one hand abi? Yes, I mentioned a gun because there was a certain white woman found in a forest mapping locations using a GPS in Ogoja, Cross River State and when the people tried to ask her what she was doing, the next thing she did was to pull out a gun trying to defend herself. Nobody actually got close to her either. These are people that believes nowhere is safe hence wants to defend themselves by all means. Mr. Kanoro, like they have said, you can disregard everything I have said please. Do as they ask you to do. I've seen one already putting application to take you around, go with him when you come right! But be very careful!!!

You say you are trying to help me but you've insulted me like 3 times in the process. You said that humility is not in my blood and you are also assuming all americans have guns. I don't even own a gun. I'm not white either, I'm black. I have the same "blood" as you do. If I was paranoid like you think I am, I wouldn't even bother going to Nigeria. My entire goal in life is to show the world that we have a history. I want to show that we had a rich culture with powerful kingdoms, beautiful palaces and fierce armored warriors built from the ground up by our people. That is my entire goal behind going to Nigeria, to gain knowledge on these things. I appreciate your help but you were very rude in your manner of approach. The way you judged Americans is like me assuming you're wearing a loin cloth and live in a hut.

Tgen: Hey friend, i'll like to help you know more about my country if you don't mind. I'm a student in one of our universities in the eastern part of nigeria, imo to be precise. Said u'll be coming by december?

Yes definitely. I'd love to talk to someone who is highly educated in the history. You're exactly the kind of person that I was looking for. December is when I maybe be coming but I am not 100% sure if I will go there yet.

vislabraye: Op, first go to a museum. I'll suggest Onikan museum in Lagos for you. Meet with the curator and ask him whatever question you have in mind.
Most likely, he would refer you to the cities in questions.

Thank you. I had lagos in mind from the beginning but I had no Idea where to start. How about Benin City? Are there any historical sights there worth visiting? Is the Oba's Royal Palace still standing? I have never found any good pictures of it other than really crudely built mud structures that don't match any of the descriptions I've heard of it.

eyenCalabar: Very important is manner of approach, we value this so much. The way you approach an elder here for instance is quite different from what you guys do over there. When you are coming, you must leave aside that "Hi" sh!t you guys do there in the name of greetings. You don't commonize these simple things else you won't be taken important and that may be the beginning of failure to your quest. We value greetings so much here, so take your time to greet my people. And I think you would first touch the Yoruba land, there, you lie down on the ground to greet. I don't really know about Hausa and Igbo if you'll be going there, but if you'll get to Calabar; ours is simple, just bow your head while greeting with two hands. Just take it that we are all bigger than you so humble yourself because we know humility is not really in you guys blood but you'll have to try. Finally, don't come with a gun because you guys like guns so much and don't also think of "Bleep!ng" anybody here 'cos we don't tolerate insult. Wish you success in your quest and safe journey to Nigeria.

Ummm that was very helpful but also very rude. We don't all carry guns. This proves my point right here how the west controls the media. The black guy you see on TV is not who I am. I also find it a bit rude how you said "humility is really not in you guys blood" Get over yourself man. We are all different and despite the differences, and the things that I dislike, I still have respect for your culture. I don't ask you to respect mine but I at least except you to accept it. Thank you.

So as you may be able to see from the obvious title. I'm an American who plans to visit Nigeria. I plan to go around December and I have a few questions. Well first off, I'm an artist and aspiring game designer. I'm doing a lot of art and storylining based on African art and mythology. I have exploited the internet to the fullest to gather information to aid me with this process but the way the West controls the media limits the knowledge that I can gain about my ancestors. I am really interested in the warrior culture of the the powerful pre-colonial monarchs that once existed in Nigeria and West Africa as a whole. Where would you recommend I go in order to get the best information about this and where can I see some authentic sets of arms and armor from ancient empires of Nigeria. More specifically the Benin Empire? Lastly, what are some customs, courtesies, and social norms that I should know about before I go there. I don't want to end up offending anyone without meaning it. Thank you

Flytefalls: Culture has always been a strong platform to develop games around. But Africa. Wow, that scope is immense. Is this a serious consideration?

Yes. In the western world, Africa is like another planet. It is completely unknown except as I said before... the negative things. I wanna show the world what really did exist there and how amazing it was.

Flytefalls: I love this idea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Start developing ASAP please.

I'm glad you like it . Hopefully others do as well.

PAGAN 9JA:
THIS IS THE PROBLEM WITH YOU AKATAS! ALWAYS CLUBBING AFRICANS TOGETHER!

why would a Benin warrior use a Malian ship and who knows, maybe ride a Soomali camel in the forests of Cameroon and do a Zulu war dance.

Because it's a video game? Why would a blonde haired, blue eyed white dude be named naruto and live in medieval japan? I know that Africa has many unique cultures.I want the world to see them all.

As a Black American, it saddens me to know so many cool and amazing things about European and Asian culture but barely anything about my own... other than modern wars, poverty, disease, and corruption. I know quite a bit more about African history than most Americans and that's simply because I read books, blogs, etc on my own. We are familiar with European and Asian history via video games and movies. Where are the African ones. Anyway I have thoroughly researched Western Africa. Mostly The Ashante, Benin, Malian, and Oyo kingdoms. I'm asking my long lost family in Africa to help me show the world that we have a history. We were more than just butt-naked hunter-gatherers that danced around fires with stone spears. I want to show them that we had Powerful and highly urbanized kingdoms with fortified cities and palaces guarded by armored cavalry forces who wielded steel swords, bows, crossbows, and just about anything else that could be found in medieval Europe or Asia. My biggest requests from you are pictures of authentic Benin warrior armor and attire (not plaques) and authentic Sub-Saharan sea vessels. Namely Malian ships.

الملكي فوق الله: ...You see the Red Brah....?

Now answer this question.

Who is on Whose Forum.

..........?...

Oh Ok.

Do you see how stupidd the average Black American male is?.

The Intelligence Equivalent to that of Vile Road Kill.

In the Midst of Typing that Terrible, poorly thought out post, at not one point did it dawn on you that you were engaging in a complete contradiction.

Superlative Stupidity.....

Well I don't type like that for one. And also whites type like that too. It's just a cultural thing rather than an "intelligence" thing. My sister for example types q's instead of g's. It's not because she doesn't know any better. She just does it. Anyway I didn't post this for stereotypes or prejudice of the race as a whole. I simply wanted the general consensus on what most Africans think of Americans. I'm proud of my anscestory and I hope that one day I am successful at sharing it with the world and proving that there is more to African than what is seen on the discovery channel.

PAGAN 9JA:
here we going again, , *smh

Akata on board! ahoy!

Well I have no idea who or what Akata is but your reaction seems a bit unnecessary. I'm new to this site so I don't exactly know what has and has not already been posted.

Hello everyone. I ran into this website and fell in love with it. It's nice to see that there is a large online community out there that shares the rich cultures of Africa with one another. I am an American but I am very very interested in African cultures. More specifically West African history such as the Benin Empire and the Ashante Confederacy. Anyway I have come to notice that Americans and most other Westerners have a tendency of excluding and criticizing any and everything African. If you look up anything such as a sword or a house or anything of that nature, you will probably find a Wikipedia page that thoroughly describes it's history and usage in Europe, generously describes it in Asia and the Americas but excludes Africa entirely. If it does include it, it'll be a brief description, a somewhat negative description or generalizing the entire continent into one small paragraph. Anyway I have learned a lot about African polities throughout history by doing my own research about it. I was very impressed and pleased at what I learned about my ancestors and I have goals and ambitions on changing the world's views on it through my artwork. I plan to make an RPG based primarily on African cultures. Sorry for steering clear of the original subject but I will ask it again. What does an African generally think of a black American? Really all you ever hear about Africa here are negative things unfortunately.