₦airaland Forum

Misogynist2014:
You see, He who comes to equity must come with clean hands. Robberies are increasing because of poverty and massive corruption, but in cases where govt is doing its best and executing corrupt office holders, its a good move and will surely work.

why continue with the sscapegoat executions when it can not prevent what it designed to prevent?! why not address the poverty which is the cause rather than treat crime (an effect of poverty) as a cause?!

Obadiah77:
How far about it?

you want a forecast or a prophecy?

scribble:
4 years ago I was making about 50k


Now its about 1.5m


Married the woman who was there when it was 50k


I live for her now because she supported me with love, prayers, advice, encouragement and a constant smile.

It does not always end well.

podosci:
A man was recently released after going through a rehabilitation programme, 2days later he killed a young university freshmen student, He was arrested again and sent back to jail

was he rehabilitated? Or rather he went into a place labeled rehabilitation programme?

Misogynist2014:
It is called CONSTRUCTIVE FEAR. They are scapegoats.

Nigeria has had a long history of carrying the death sentence, this history with it's long line of scapegoats has clearly not worked. There is in fact a drastic increase in armed robberies.

Justfollowit:
It depends on the crime

Crimes against humanity should translate to a death sentence, they strike through the core existence of humanity. If they have chosen to be savages they should be ready for savage punishments. They cannot reap what where they did not sow

If they want forgiveness they can ask God on their way to heaven

do you think retribution is a punishment at all? from my understanding, punishment implicitly carries a lesson to be taught. retribution is more like a blood fued, and a primitive response.

podosci:
yap, set him free after 3years rebilatation programme and a writen appology to you.
Thats should be enough, after he just raped your wife and killed your son, he didnt do anything too bad

wouldn't that be better than killing him? if the criminal is rehabilitated and made a useful part of the community, isnt that better than savagely destroying him?! because criminals themselves are victims as well.

podosci:
In retrospect you are saying if sombody does the above listed crime to you and your family, you decision is to let them go

Do you mean set free?

PastorOluT:
It seems a couple of prowlers broke into a department store in a large city. They succesfully entered the store, stayed long enough to do what they came to do, and escaped unnoticed. What is unusual about the story is what these fellows did. They took nothing, absolutely nothing, no merchandize was stolen, no items were removed, but what they did was ridiculous.

Instead of stealing anything they changed the cost of everything, price tags were swapped, values were exchanged. These clever pranksters took the tag off a $395.00 camera and stuck it on a $5.00 box of stationery. The $5.95 on a paperback book was removed and placed on an outboard motor, they repriced everything in the store.

Crazy? You bet, but the craziest part of the story took place the next morning. The store opened as usual, employee went to work, customers began to shop, the placed function as normal for four hours before anyone noticed what had happened. Four hours! Some people got great bergains, other got fleeced, for four solid hours no one noticed that all the values had been swapped.

Hard to believe! Its shouldn't be-we see the same thing happening every day. We are deluged by a distorted value system, we see the most valueable things in our lives peddled for pennies, and we see the most cheapest smut go for millions.

The examples are abundant and besetting, here are a few:

The sales man who defended his illegal pratices by saying, "Let's not confuse business with ethics."

The father who confessed to the murder of his twelve year old daughter. The reason he killed her? She refused to go to bed with him.

The politicians who stole billions meant for the nation thereby impoverishing it, also causing chaos in some regions in order to be able to continue stealing.

Why do we do what we do? Why do we take blantant black and white and paint it grey? Why are priceless mores trashed while senseless standards are obeyed? What causes us to elevate the body and degrade the souls? What causes us to pamper the skin why we degrade the heart?

Our values are messed up, someone broke into the store and exchanged all the price tags. Thrills are going for top dollar and the value of human soul is at an all time low.

For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world, and forfeit his life [ in the eternal kingdom of God]? For what can a man give as an exchange ( a compensation, a ransom, in return) for his [blessed] life [ in the eternal kingdom of God]?

Mark 6:36-37 Amplified bible

stay blessed and remain rapturable

Doesn't free will include the power to alter value systems?

Lizabeth25:
Scripture: “But God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”- Romans 5:8

Do you feel like God is distant, or like your problems are not big enough for God to care about?

No matter how often you feel that way, it can’t be any farther from the truth. Your feelings will never change the way God feels about you. He knit you together before you were even born (Psalm 139:13) and He died for you even though you sin. If you’re struggling with that truth today, write back - let’s talk about it.

Why does God love us?

podosci:
Lets say armed robbers broke into your home, raped your pregnant wife while they forced you to watch, she had a miscarage has a result , killed your first son and shot you in the leg there by crimpling you for life, Then carted away with all your possesions.....
What punishment do you think is convinient for such a grusome crime?

You have a big misunderstanding of criminal justice. The true victim is the State not the individual. It is the State's prerogative to prosecute criminals because it faces the most danger from crimes. Criminal justice is not the same with retribution, the debt (crime) is owed to the State, and the criminal is purposefully rehabilitated.

Collynzo419:
If you are prepared to do the crime, then you should be ready to do the time or meet your creator

In other words, there is a consequence for every action.

Personally I do not support the firing squad as punishment- easy way out. Kirikiri and other Nigerian prisons are the solution to corruption/robbery in Nigeria.

Robbery, Stealing, Corruption are crimes under the law and they should be punishable offences.

Come 28th of March, we would start building a new country.

Change is coming!

Sai Baba

Don't you think a high crime rate is just a symptom of a greater disease? These robbers (to whom I share no sympathy), are products of their circumstances. They are hardly literate, and without employable skills for a modern time, hence they resort to brazen violence. There will be more of them in the future, if the circumstances which engendered their growth continues.

^^

The autonomous automobile is a piece of human encoding and programming also. It is not the perfect example.

The assessment of value is not really a conscious decision, it is more subconscious. It is an intuitive effort made in a split second.

We ought to ask our politicians which of them endorse 'police report before treatment'. We hardly discuss real issues before elections.

timmy2409:
Nevertheless, I do think that it is much safer to approximate that the combined value of the lives of 5 individuals outweigh those of a single one.

I mean, at some point the majority has to hold a higher inherent value right? 5 might seem like a benign number of individuals, but what if your choices were between watching the train run into a gathering of 500 individuals vs diverting it into a single man on the adjacent track? Irrational or not, I think you will find very few people that would argue for inaction in this scenario.

It is inevitable that moral actions revolve around value. A ladder of value by which the actions are allocated. And you have rightly pointed out value as essential. Value could be assessed by quantity or quality. The example you made, relates to quantity. What about quality? Lets say 500 ordinary peasants are in the way of the train versus diverting it into a King or an esoteric scholar?

For Western civilization which we are very much part of, the value of a King is greater than 500 peasants, regardless of what the families of those peasants think.

tbaba1234:
In empirical terms, what value do you put on Bill's life? What makes Bill's life less valuable than 5? Bill offers value to family, friends, employers and possibly his employees. How do you put a value to that? How do you put a value to the other 5?
In making policy decisions(for instance), value on human life is one of the most difficult. We really can't adequately compensate for this.
Does killing Bill to save 5 have advantages? You will find this difficult to properly assess because of the subjectivity involved.

Despite the subjectivity cloud around it, the moral choice comes down to you. . therefore, your subjective view is what matters. How do you weigh the life of a person? Isn't yours greater than a number of people's?

Justfollowit:
Did anything in my post suggested that I was an expert in the field of demonlogy? Or where in my post did I claim that I was an expert?

If you are so intelligent to doubt demon existence what stopped you from applying that intelligence to what you read?

I mentioned my experience and if I had wanted to be persuasive I would have explained further.

Rather I provided my religious point of view which is available to everyone with internet access

Ishilove was so intelligent that she was able to understood my rationale behind the Osun analogy from the link I quoted.


I can understand if your construction was mistaken but I firmly believe that it was not. If you seek someone to prove to yourself how intelligent you are, for your own sake please look further away from me.

I said 'intelligible' not intelligent. I was not attacking anyone's IQ. That would have been tooo arrogant. Besides what do I know about demons.

Joshthefirst:
And in this instance The Source is said to be timeless in relation to time. Unchanging.

And I'm saying, if it is timeless, it cannot be infinite at the same time.

Misogynist2014:
@ ifeness Seun and kay17, I think you all can see that there are a lot of things that cannot be subjected to proof, that there are things only logic can explain. Therefore, desist from asking for proof of YAHWEH.

How do you explain this? There lies a possibility you are wrong. Aside from my feminine desires, there can hardly be an intelligible discussion about spirits, demons and other supernatural entities when there are no bearings whatsoever. Where are we to start from. For example, Ishilove asked Justfollowit, whether Osun is a good spirit, Justfollowit seemed so lost as how to answer that.

Justfollowit:
Yeah, I am well aware of the 'errors'

I wasn't trying to persuade you and please do not try to persuade me. If I needed persuasion I can do a very good job myself.

You should have stated your position and moved on

*sigh* Another anti-persuadist.

Justfollowit:
I was not trying to persuade. If I had wanted to, my semantics would have been different.

Most people who believe in the existence of spirits do so because of their religious and cultural beliefs. My culture says they do likewise my religion. And I have also had a one-off experience about it, therefore I believe they do.

Sometimes, our cultures and religions come with errors. The wise man is not one steeped in his culture.

Nonetheless, there ought to be some sort of confirmation for existence because they can either or not. And it must be one of the two. Unlike my existence, there is no feasible alternative for my non existence. Since I'm aware about the question of existence, I must definitely exist.

Joshthefirst:
Sorry. But this is gibberish. What do you mean infinity in relation to time. I'm talking of sans time. This seems like sophistry to me. You say timeless infinity is a contradiction and support that by saying there is an infinite flowmof time in infinity?

Infinity can be in relation of numbers or any quantity. By in this circumstance, it is being used in relation to time. Hope you get me?

Misogynist2014:
Can you prove your existence?

Are you making a statement that they are unprovable?!

Justfollowit:
I can't really say but I have witnessed one and by the virtue of my generational occupation they exist.
My religion also says they do. An example is the Osun in Osun river.

That was not helpful.

Justfollowit:
You need to learn how to respect other people's religious beliefs.

The tag ‘demon' sounds harsh. They are spirits, they can be good or bad. They were created before men.

But sadly, you can not really prove their existence, right?

For we Africans, our minds already accommodate the existence of spirits and demons since they are familiar to our culture. However, if we are to independently authenticate the truth of their existence, which is essential in separating falsehood from truth; it would almost be impossible. There is no starting point to begin from.

Joshthefirst:
A timeless world of infinity does account for everything we know and see, outside of imaginary concepts.

A timeless world of infinity is a contradiction. Infinity in relation to time is endless flow of time, it suggests the eternal presence of time. Whilst timeless is the total absence of time. Please try a keen understanding of both.

Joshthefirst:
What about the fact of our universe's expansion? How does that merge with the cyclic imaginary time concept?
Remember imaginary time is an imaginary concept that has no bearing with reality. Essentially, it is an excuse of imagination.

See . . When it does not conform to your preordained proofs for God's existence, you discard it. You cherrypick.

Joshthefirst:
Note that horizontal time is the only time that we experience and know of. Some parameters of vertical time can be said to "not be time" at all...infinity ie. Events occuring in infinity...

Joshthefirst:
This doesn't change anything, as the multiverse must have an absolute beginning. The fact of the universe's expansion makes it to definitely have a previous space-time origin. Irrespective of its nature or shape.

The dilemma of a cul de sac as experienced with horizontal time is negated with imaginary time. Imaginary time is often compared with a sphere, unlike a line with two ends; spheres do not have that limitation. So a multiverse does not need an absolute beginning.

A timeless world in my mind, is a still one. It is a world without motions. Including the motion of creation.

Joshthefirst:
Maybe you should go back once more and read the parameters of the argument. Remember I wasn't the one who put it forward. The beginning of the universe is the beginning of space and time. Therefore its cause is sans space and time.

And I have mentioned that it is the beginning of horizontal time. Also, cosmologists have fitted a multiverse alongside with the Big Ban.g.

Joshthefirst:
The big bang is not about the cause of the universe. It only describes how it came into being. It says nothing about what caused it. You are the one who is being dubious. The big bang theory does not give any opinion of the cause of the universe. It only gives the description of its coming into being.

I put up an argument based on the properties of the universe showing the logical nature of its cause and you come here hounding me because the big bang says nothing about its cause?

How then did you find a timeless cause leading to the beginning of the Universe?! You are the only individual in the world, able to conceive of a timeless point separated from another point in time.

Joshthefirst:
So? Science is totally based on empirical observation.

I cannot remember rejecting the big b.ang theory outrightly, but even if I had in the past, people change as they advance in knowledge. Get off my back. And if you can still show me where I'm cherry-picking I will make amends. And do you imply that the big bang theory is now rejected?

I could also say you should come up with your own ideas on how space and time correlate and stop borrowing ideas from Hawkings and others. Humanity is advanced when we build on our ideas ma'am. We must not isolate out thinking for fear of not being original. That would cause regress, not advancement.

I will

Since you do not reject Big Ban.g theory at all or outright, it then means you picked out what's true or favourable to you and dumped the rest, right? My contention is, since you are adopting the main ideas in the Big Ban.g, you should as well follow the conclusions. The Big Ban.g theory does not in anyway say there was a timeless past prior to the Big BAn.g event, whilst you are at the other end, saying there was with dubious logic.

Addietunes:
The Bible tells us that:

Adam lived 930 years. (Genesis 5:5)

Seth lived 912 years.(Genesis 5:

Methuselah lived 969 years.(Genesis 5:27)

And Noah lived 950 years. (Genesis 9:29). If we calculate those years, they are close to 4000 years. If we add up the generation of moses, Abraham, david, and jesus . I'm sure they would be more than 2000years all making 6000 years. Also according to the bible, Jesus died 2000 years ago. But the bible said the world is only 6000 years old.
I'm not that good at mathematics but i'm sure there is an error somewhere. Either that or our bible writers couldn't count.

Adam and Seth's lifetimes probably overlapped. Same with Methuselah.

Joshthefirst:
Everything that begins to exist has a cause;
The universe began to exist;
Therefore:
The universe has a cause.

From the conclusion of the initial syllogism, we can put forward the next part

The universe has a cause;
If the universe has a cause, then an uncaused, personal Creator of the universe exists, who sans the universe is beginningless, changeless, immaterial, timeless, spaceless and enormously powerful;
Therefore:
An uncaused, personal Creator of the universe exists, who sans the universe is beginningless, changeless, immaterial, timeless, spaceless and enormously powerful.


Before I was aware of this argument I had a bit of thought on causes and origins and arrived at the SME conclusion of the character and basic nature of the Source of all things.

1. The bolded is largely obtained by empirical observation and limited as an inductive experience.

2. Your argument is subtly based on the Big B.ang cosmological theory which you have always rejected. The idea that time and space are elastic and finite, is owed to this rejected cosmology. I find it a bit lazy and repugnant that you borrow/cherrypick the sections of the cosmological theory you like and disown the remainder. You have to come up with your own original ideas of how space, matter and time behave and correlate.

3. I have gone through hypotheses made by eminent physicists such as Stephen Hawkings and Penrose. From my understanding of their works, they (especially Stephen) conceives of the concept of imaginary time which as a vertical element which our familiar time lacks. He posits that this time (imaginary time) preexists our familiar time and preexists the Big Ban.g event. You should look that up. Very interesting.

thehomer:
You should read your Bible. Mary never gave consent to be impregnated by the Holy Spirit. She was simply told that she would be impregnated.

But why is consent so important?! She could have ratified the act after it is done.

RexBrita:
@ Kay17

First, you have greatly derailed from the topic. We can extensively discuss love but not on this thread.

Second, you have gone personal, talking about me instead of the ideas brought forth.

Third, I am not wooing anyone to theism or atheism. Since u already have answers u are comfortable with, why ask questions? Aren't you the one craving for attention?

Divine love was one of the proofs you listed, demonstrating the awareness of God's existence amongst atheists. So any discussions on love is incidental to the thread. By my word, I was not attacking you directly, I was merely trying to prove my points.