₦airaland Forum

Kay17:
How helpful it was to say an assumption is an assumption, such insight!
It is actually because assumptions create a certainty that is why they are useful. They are like scaffolds. For example, assuming your wife commits would you divorce her? rather than spend all the time proving and disproving her fidelity, a starting point and a contention is created for further thought. Same happens on Nairaland religion everyday, atheists assume God exists and try to prove the inconsistencies that would result. Also in budgetary estimates, assumptions are made about cashflows, revenues etc. Same happens while we project towards the future and believe the cause - effects of yesterday would happen today and tomorrow.
Faith on the other hand does not make assumptions but sees itself as an epistemological tool

italo:
Assumptions arent certainties...and they dont create certainties.

We all just believe in one thing or the other without universally provable certainty.

We are all men of great faith. I haven't seen you nullify that point.

sinequanon:
There is no contrast. It is the same for science. That is why some scientists believe some scientific theories and some don't.
Simply labeling it "faith" when it comes to religion doesn't make it different.
This is what you, davien et. al do all along. Then you complain when asked to replace the label by a clear description.

OLAADEGBU:
Yes. Evidence for this has been given on page 0 of this thread (I believe my 8th post on the first page). Scroll back for your perusal.

Kay17:
Are all things designed must be immediately caused by an intelligent designer?

OLAADEGBU:
Shoot!

OLAADEGBU:
It’s not arrogant to say that atheism is foolishness. The Bible says that (see Psalm 14:1, Psalm 53:1, Romans 1:22) and Sir Isaac Newton ("the Father of Science" ) rightly called atheism "senseless."

Should a man be called "intelligent" if he believes that a 747 could be the result of an explosion that threw it together? Everyone knows that explosions don’t produce order, let alone engines, wings, an electrical system, seating, carpet, air conditioning, row numbers, doors, instruments, etc.

Such a man is a fool in the truest sense of the word, and those who think he is intelligent are just as foolish.

www.livingwaters.com

Kay17:
Assumptions are necessary in order to create a starting point. . Assumptions build premises before conclusions can be erected. Science creates a natural cause because such cause is readily perceptible. For such purposes the assumptions are valid.
In contrast with Faith, it depends on how far the faithful is willing to stretch his faith.

italo:
An assumption is always, and only, an assumption.

It is not certain.

And who are you to tell us which uncertainties are valid and which are not?

It takes mammoth faith to believe whole theories built on a foundation of uncertainties.

sinequanon:
Here is the QUESTION for the 4th or 5th time:

Do you or do you not agree that science ASSUMES that ALL events ALWAYS have a "natural" cause?

It is clearly asking you IF you agree with something, not presupposing it.

Since you are stuck and reluctant to answer the question, as was plaetton, there is no point continuing.

The only useful thing you have to say is that you are disingenuous, and you have effectively shouted it from the rooftops.

DeepSight:
I dey. I promised you I cannot argue up and down again. We are brief visitors here and anyone who wishes to see can see, or not. God is beyond that which you may ever contemplate. You can just take a second and draw in your entire life and memories, it would help: what you are, where you are going, and the purpose of your sojourn. You can reflect on your birth, if you or anyone remembers such, or even try to count the hairs on your head. You can sleep, and wake up, and propound and argue again and again. It is up to you. God is what IT is. Life is what it is.

No amount of argument or intellectualism, or the pretense of it, will change a DOT of that which has always been, that which IS, and that which will be.

TheFury:
Many thinkers, artists, writers, musicians, politicians, warriors etc have advanced diverse theories about the non existence of God for whatever reason they came up with.

To all the "smart-free born-enlightened-scientific-identity ripped out" fellows who believe powerfully and are absolutely convinced that there is nothing called God....only a "vindictive-bias-unintelligent-vagina loving deity", please I beg you to hold on firmly to your beliefs. Some of you think you have discovered the secrete to your existence and universe cos you can reproduce elaborate theories advanced by individuals who couldn't even explain how a grass grows everyday.

If you cannot see anything when you wake up from your bed everyday that tells you something about the nature of God then congratulations! You cannot even explain how a single strand of hair on your head can be created yet you are So confident, so sure, so absolute that there is no God, there is no beginning and end in time. Many intelligent people have taken your very "sound and reasonable" road, trust me you ain't the first neither will you be the last to doubt the existence of God. Keep the fire burning, "do what thou will".......its all a hoax...there is no God.

PoomPoko:
Not holding brief for the theist apologists here but I think arguing otherwise will lead to a logical roller coaster... If ALL THINGS MUST have a beginning, then here HAS TO BE THAT FIRST INSTANCE that kick-starts the other events lest We will have a case of A causing B, B bringing about C, C giving rise to D and D leading to A. No?

shachris03:
[b]something can be anything [/b]and not everything. If you say that there is something in your room, you are refering to one particular thing in your room and not everything in your room, got it?



So the something that everything came from is called God.

sinequanon:
So you can't answer the question:
Do you or do you not agree that..
Science ASSUMES that ALL events ALWAYS have a "natural" cause.
OK next...
Explain what makes a claim supernatural. I don't want a list of examples and arm waving. I want a description of what makes a claim supernatural.

shachris03:
there you go again. Something can be anything but not everything.

shachris03:
An alternate universe might not exist because it is not proven yet....so it can't be something. But common sense tells us that for us to have anything, there must have being something. That particular something that everything emanated from, is God.

Emmalot121:
Kay17 'And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me and live.' Exodus 33:20

shachris03:
Because God is a something, therefore God exists.

shachris03:
Stop acting naive. I mean the first something....the origin of all somethings.

shachris03:
if cause and effect is an assumption we made, then there exist a possibility, somehow, of another level of evaluation that we know nothing of yet. One thing i am certain of tho is that they universe did not come from nothing. If there was something before nothing, then that something must be God.

Emmalot121:
Where in my post did I say that nothing is known about God. As I said, it is either life came from nothing or something. For life to come out of nothing, it means nothing itself is something. For nothing to be nothing it has to be dormant. You are just twisting the same questions, all your questions have already being answered.

Emmalot121:
Everything. Like I said the true nature of God can't be known. I am expecting counter questions from my proof, not asking me to tell you all about God.

Emmalot121:
It would have been so, were not for the bible that gave us the hint about him. Even with this, there are still much to know and I can't delve into explaining the unknown.

Emmalot121:
@kay17 @ifeness If we came from nothing, then we all should be traceable to nothing. But it isn't, cos we are all traceable to something, the atom. So also can live not be traced to nothing, but something, God.

shachris03:
Like he said, for there is nothing like something from nothing. Big Bang tells us that the universe originated from some elements, how did does elements come about? Something must have brought about those elements, don't you think?
Think of God as the origin....like God just popped out and everything as we know them started pumping out from God....before God, there was nothing (as we know nothing to be)....

Emmalot121:
Everything. Like I said the true nature of God can't be known. I am expecting counter questions from my proof, not asking me to tell you all about God.

Emmalot121:
"As for your who's question, when you break a piece of yam, won't you get to its atom? "

Emmalot121:
You are repeating the same question. I have already answered this using the atom illustration.

Emmalot121:
Everything. Like I said the true nature of God can't be known. I am expecting counter questions from my proof, not asking me to tell you all about God.

Kay17:
Can God be described without the word HE?!

Emmalot121:
No!

Emmalot121:
God is the beginning itself.

sinequanon:
Go and whinge by yourself. I'm busy.

Emmalot121:
He is used to represent him in Bible because it is in this view of him that we can have a clue of him. We are image of him and not otherwise.

Emmalot121:
He has no beginning because he is the beginning.