₦airaland Forum

Your submission is clear and well defended, but the "place" being referred to in my argument is "Heaven" - and you refer to it as a non-trial abode...

If so, "Lucifer," as the interest of discussion, was in Heaven during his trial and he failed his test in Heaven.

Shouldn't it be fair to conclude, the Hereafter (Paradise) is still a place of trials as opposed to what you defended?

honesttalk21:
The guarantee isn't the reward itself; it's that the test is over. Iblis/Lucifer fell while he was still being tested and had the ability to choose. Paradise isn't another test. It's the final reward after Allah has judged and purified His servants. The Quran describes its people as secure forever. So the reward doesn't make them righteous; it is given because Allah has already completed their trial. That's why Islam emphasizes patience now. The testing comes before the reward, not after it.

Yes, that's real faith with enough answers to prove it is.

But if there's no evidence of substance,

It's just basically floating faith, not concrete faith.

Because there seems to be too much religious drama over a "feeling" called faith.

I ask these anti-christ questions not to ridicule religion, but to understand if you feel things mentally to conclude there's a God or if you just follow the narratives people tell you and assume there's God...

MaxInDHouse:
That is real faith!

The true worshiper as you may call it, should remain loyal to God even when broke.


If such worshiper doesn't stay loyal to God in financial crisis, then such loyalty to God is attached to money than God Himself.


A true believer as you call one - that reads the Bible and listen to the sermon, should remain loyal to God in all situations without test.

MaxInDHouse:
Our God is not against riches but what He is saying is we should be careful not to rely on material things otherwise when those things are no longer there will the worshiper remain loyal to God?

True to the fact, money doesn't buy happiness.

But poverty doesn't create happiness either.

The middle class are experiencing both sides of rich and poor.

So, the situation is what it is.

But if a man has an opportunity to be rich either through talent or opportunity, he should take advantage of it and not be bound by religious rules of scarcity.

That's my opinion.

MaxInDHouse:
Most people do feel like riches is the height of bliss until money fails.

For instance a billionaire may be tempted to think he could help people in his neighborhood by contesting for a public office only to meet his doom or become enemy to the same people he wish to help.

But in true religion everyone knows the system we are in presently is filled with uncertainty so no one among us rely on this system.

Yes, but in reference to my previous question in quote:

"If Lucifer who was "rewarded" with beauty, could be distracted and corruptible, and thrown down the path of Hell - then what absolute guarantee is it, that the very "reward" God denies on earth, but promises in eternity, His saved-souls will also not default in character on receiving their rewards each?


How would you answer that?

Please note: Goodness is separate from reward.

honesttalk21:
Certainly which ever way you live none is easy and specifically Allah acknowledges this in Quran 2:45 about this difficulty.

Seek help in every affair through patience in all its forms and through prayer. This path is difficult except for those humbled by awe of Allah, who live knowing they will return to Him.

Allah is with those who are patient, granting them His support, guidance, and aid through every trial. Qur'an 2:153 which is also expressed as Patience is never endured alone, Allah is with those who remain steadfast.



Islam does not deny the righteous goodness in this life; rather, believers are taught to pray, Our Lord, grant us good in this world and good in the Hereafter Qur'an 2:201, and Allah promises a good life to those who believe and do righteous deeds Qur'an 16:97. Yet this world remains a test, while the Hereafter is where Allah's promise of perfect justice and complete reward is fulfilled.

Hmm!

This is interesting!

If the "other side," is not a place, but an "emotion", then, is that the ultimate consequence God promises?

There are so many billionaires in the world today doing just fine with or without God - no suicide, little or no disappointments and merry life...

How do you explain that?

MaxInDHouse:
The otherside is deception where people keep on seeking what is not real because the life people are living now is not how God purposed it to be so anyone who builds his life around what we are seeing now will end up in disappointment.
That is why most people do commit suicide as they built their lives around what they are seeing!
For instance a disciple of Jesus refused to agree with Jesus but he kept following Jesus while his heart far away from Jesus. Later he sold Jesus for money but ended up committing suicide because he later discovered he is not happy with the money! 1Timothy 6:9-10

I accept the correction.

You said: "These are the very words of Jesus Christ not my own opinion so going by what Jesus the only begotten Son of the one and only true God said there is no real comfort now and his disciples shouldn't seek such comfort otherwise it's the other side they will see!"

What's the "other side" if i may ask, since everlasting life is here on earth, and principles of heaven and hell don't exist?

MaxInDHouse:
The highlighted is WRONG don't say its my opinion but according to Jesus of Nazareth!

“Keep on, then, seeking first the Kingdom and his righteousness, and all these other things will be added to you. So never be anxious about the next day, for the next day will have its own anxieties. Each day has enough of its own troubles" Matthew 6:33-34

"I have said these things to you so that by means of me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation, but take courage! I have conquered the world.” John 16:33

These are the very words of Jesus Christ not my own opinion so going by what Jesus the only begotten Son of the one and only true God said there is no real comfort now and his disciples shouldn't seek such comfort otherwise it's the other side they will see!

In my opinion, "Islam is slightly a more accepted RELIGION regardless of extremists attachments to it - if all you've written is true.

A religion that respects the rights, the will of man without judgment, is considered a religion of peace.

But if a religion judges, assumes or imposes its will on others, its a religion of war.

This is why neutrality is important.

If you do collective-good in society, you need not be attached to Christianity, Islam or Buddhism, to be considered GOOD, for you are already doing what a thousand preach.

honesttalk21:
I am not arguing for the unification of religions. Which definition of religion are you using?
My point is that the Creator and Sustainer of all is supreme, and what ultimately matters is that people sincerely seek Him and live according to the guidance He has revealed.
Even in the Bible, Solomon is praised for asking for wisdom rather than merely knowledge, because wisdom is the right application of truth. In Islam, knowledge is meant to be acted upon, and righteousness is measured not only by what a person knows, but by how faithfully they live in obedience to Allah.
What we can observe is people's outward conduct, but we cannot judge their final standing before Allah. The Quran teaches that ultimate judgment belongs to Him alone, for He alone knows every person's knowledge, intentions, circumstances, and deeds. Our responsibility is to follow His guidance faithfully, while leaving the final verdict to Him.

You made a memorable line - "Allah would have given everything for nothing".

This excerpt, shows a need for strong faith - a strong will to hold onto a promise even when in doubt sometimes.

Discipline is way of life and encouraged in daily practices... but the question is, why should there be a reward in the Hereafter other than here?

If earthly reward is distracting and corrupting, why then is such kind of reward delayed and offered in a Holy Kingdom called Afterlife?

If Lucifer who was "rewarded" with beauty, could be distracted and corruptible, and thrown down the path of Hell - then what absolute guarantee is it, that the very "reward" God denies on earth, but promises in eternity, His saved-souls will also not default in character on receiving their rewards each?

honesttalk21:
Humanism sees this life as the only life, so meaning and reward are found here. Islam teaches that this life is a test, while the Hereafter is the final destination where every sacrifice and every act of righteousness receives its true reward.
If there were no life after death, then those who sacrificed wealth, comfort, or even their lives for Allah would have given everything for nothing. Islam answers this with the promise of the Hereafter, where justice is completed and every deed is repaid.

Islam does not replace effort with prayer. It teaches that every part of life can become worship when lived according to Allah's guidance. No one can empirically prove the final resurrection today. The real question is whether Allah and His revelation are true. If the Qur'an is from Allah, then His promise of resurrection is certain because Allah never breaks His promise.
The issue is not whether someone has returned from the final resurrection, but whether the One who promised it can be trusted and in Islam the answer is yes.

This is a subjective belief.

Other religious believers think Buddhism, Christianity and Taoism is Supreme...

Who is the True unifier of all religions beyond our human imagination?

I guess that will be a tough question.

honesttalk21:
I believe Allah is supreme and existence of different religions is part of his decree. He is best to review all individual actions.

This interpretation you've provided, is similar to Humanism.

In basics, you imply prayer should be reserved for salvation and one's self, should endure the hardship of the earth.

In many faith, hardship on earth is seen as the testing ground of righteousness - if one proves righteousnessness on earth, without praying out of suffering, he may qualify for everlasting life in His Kingdom.

These are strong interpretations of both Quoranic and Biblical messages.

But what evidence has any one shown, that an eternal life exist beyond the books?

Why would anyone wish what is said unto a teacher, "A teacher's reward is in heaven", unto their own life?

How unfair would it be, for believers to suffer on earth, and realise no eternal life nor it bliss exist afterward?

honesttalk21:
Good we are about generally in agreement even if that is not necessary but bare in mind where there's a disconnect. Humans are not supposed to replace all effort with prayer. It's viewed by some that your entire life to death not restricted to ritual worship in prayer. Q2:177 Righteousness is not (merely) that you turn your faces to the East and the West (in prayer); but righteousness is that one believes in Allah and the Last Day and the angels and the Book and the Prophets, and gives wealth, despite love for it, to relatives, and to orphans, the helpless,the wayfarer, and to those who ask, and (spends) in (freeing) slaves and observes the prayers) and pays Zakah-and (the act of) those who fulfill their covenant when they enter into a covenant, and, of course, those who are patient in hardship and suffering and when in battle! Those are the ones who are truthful, and those are the God - fearing.
Essentially righteousness encompasses every part of life and becomes worship when guided by Allah's revelation.

The world is a place of suffering and people look up to God for relief on Earth, even when God's relief for them is in Eternity.

In your informed opinion, true worship is salvation-seeking and not earthly comfort.

Where does one draw the line between "heavenly/eternal prayers" and "earthly prayers"?

Some believers may ask: why pray for protection on earth, when you can pray for salvation or eternal life?

Why be afraid of death and pray for protection on earth, if eternal life is the true destination and reward?

The only clause in the scripture that contradicts the above is this:


"Thy Will be done on earth, as it is in heaven"...


If suffering is imminent on earth, will suffering also be in eternity, be it heaven, hell or everlasting life of planet earth?

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus and his disciples are the people who will teach us the will of God through their words, actions and ministries. So when i said JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES are the only true Christians i can beat my chest while saying it before anybody.
Call any of them to come and use the Bible to prove they are following the footsteps of Christ and his apostles.
For your information the way the Bible is written should tell you a lot.
Four disciples wrote about Jesus' life and ministry while the next book Act Of Apostles teaches us how they operate so if any religion claims they believe in the same God as Jesus and his disciples let them prove it by showing how they follow the footsteps of Christ and his Apostles!🙂


Ask them to give examples of disciples of Christ who became rich and not suffer nah at least if they claim to be worshipers of the same God could they be more favored than those who started the religion in the first century?🙂

Regarding being rich and not suffer this is what apostle Paul said in behalf of himself and all other apostles:

Are they ministers of Christ? I reply like a madman, I am more outstandingly one: I have done more work, been imprisoned more often, suffered countless beatings, and experienced many near-deaths. Five times I received 40 strokes less one from the Jews, three times I was beaten with rods, once I was stoned, three times I experienced shipwreck, a night and a day I have spent in the open sea; in journeys often, in dangers from rivers, in dangers from robbers, in dangers from my own people, in dangers from the nations, in dangers in the city, in dangers in the wilderness, in dangers at sea, in dangers among false brothers, in labor and toil, in sleepless nights often, in hunger and thirst, frequently without food, in cold and lacking clothing. 2Corinthians 11:23-27

Ọmọ i'm not here to force you to agree with whatever doesn't make you feel comfortable but when talking about true Christianity don't argue with me i challenge any church or any pastor to come and face me on this ONLY JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES are true Christians!🙂

The Will of God in your religious understanding, might be non-material things.

And at the same time, the "will of God" could mean, man's comfort in other contexts.

Some doctrines might say, "it's the will of God for a man to be rich and not suffer".

Because the meaning of the will of God is not specifically stated as this or that, Christians are likely to unknowingly assume, "will of God" is everything including money and a private jet.

So there's no Christian Association of Nigeria's stamp to approve JW's sermon or interpretation as overall.

MaxInDHouse:
You've started deceiving yourself again.

Quote where a servant of God asked for a selfish thing nah!🥱


All things that are in line with the will of God.
See what our brothers in Jehovah's Witnesses said about asking our God:


This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. ‭1 John 5:14 NIV‬

See highlighted in red and underlined.

So we know what is in our book stop listening to fake Christians!🙂

Servants of God ask for so many things - be it selfish or non-selfish things.

But God's word is contrary - He say in the Bible, "ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE" and "ASK AND IT SHALL BE GIVEN UNTO YOU".

But you say, "NO SERVANT OF GOD ASKED FOR RICHES"...

One wonders if different writers of the Bible, had different orientations or heard God's word differently...?

Some preachers would say, "believers can ask for riches" - for example in the Bible, it is written "Thou anoints my head with oil, my cup runneth over"...

This very verse-line would be argued by various pastors and defended as "God is a God of Prosperity"...

That's why I told you earlier, there are various interpretations...

There's no monopoly of truth...

Because @honesttalk21 on this very thread, also believes his religion is Supreme.

So who should we unbelievers, listen to...?

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus was talking to FAITHFUL Jews who knew what to ask for not faithless people who just want to ask anything that comes to their mind.

That's why i said in the beginning that no servant of God asked for riches or material possessions so those listening to Jesus knew such requests has never been asked in times past.

So to understand what Jesus meant try to figure out what servants of this God do ask not just abracadabra as you wish! 🙂

Certainly, hardwork doesn't give expected results all the time, but it does more of the time than prayers and incantation ever does.

The common saying of "Pray but put in the hardwork" - makes significant sense...

Simply, because the idea of "prayer" requires something or an object to feed on.

However, hardwork itself doesn't necessarily need the support of prayer to work.

You can push a broken down vehicle with human effort (work) - but you can't verbally command the car to move in the "name of God"...

So, physical effort is totally independent. The idea of prayer is dependent on something.

honesttalk21:
Allah's promise is an absolute certainty unlike and there's no failure here Quran 3:9 however when comparing this with mankind's scientific evaluation, they are not equal categories. Allah's knowledge is perfect and infallible unlike mankind's scientific knowledge that is governed by endeavor that may improve over time through observation and correction.
Note that certainty is in Allah's revelation, while human inquiry whether scientific or philosophical remains as means of seeking understanding that is open to evidence and correction.


@kayjordan, hard work sometimes doesn't give expected result.

Now let me link this back to this article.

If God truly gives perfect instructions, why then do people pray and sometimes don't get answers? - "Ask and it shall be given"...

Is that trial and error?

Believers defense would always be "God knows best".

In your True Religion, some of your prayers are probably not answered - and you still use the common line defense.

That's the honest reason why people (regardless if they're JW or whatever), would visit a witch-doctor to get their prayers answered.

Even with voodoo, prayers too are not answered.

The practical and reasonable answer is not church, mosque or shrine... it is hardwork.

MaxInDHouse:
When you don't know the true religion that is what you will forever continue to experience.
God gives perfect instructions on how to achieve the expected results it's when you don't know what God says that you start using trial and error style!

Let me help you understand instead.

You don't walk first as a baby... you crawl first.

You cannot get perfect results at first try without trying out many options.

You have to make mistakes and those mistakes will lead to near perfect results.

Religion is not doing that.

What you are doing is assuming...

Yet your assumptive "right procedure" is not applicable in all religions and systems of the earth - why?

Simply because your assumption of "right procedure" is not agreed on by everybody nor by every religion.

Many don't use or care about your methods or procedures.

But people of all religions are using scientific methods and procedures daily in many ways.

MaxInDHouse:
You don't understand what you are saying because if someone fails to follow the right procedure it will not work out but if you do things right you will get the perfect result.

I've been trying to show you how to apply the right steps but you keep on asking for abracadabra!🙂

Science makes practical sense because it is PRACTICAL.

Religious practice is what "isn't" practical.


*Biblical/religious target is to know the truth.
*Science's target is to know the truth.

Both schools of thought have one MISSION/GOAL and that is, to find TRUTH.

Believe it or not, religion is trial and error. That's why there are so many processes, teachings, religions and denominations - because all are trying to get closer to the truth.

This is why I re-interate: the Bible has played it's part finding foundational truth but hasn't closed in yet - but science which is a later and more advanced knowledge, is closer to the truth even though not completely.

MaxInDHouse:
Stop deluding yourself science starts with knowing what benefit we will get before going into a long process.
Real scientists has a target 🎯 as in what they want to achieve first before thinking about the procedure.

If Bible is the source of information then we need to know what is to be gained before thinking of how to practice it otherwise you will never get the benefit because it's in the process of practicing that you need to keep on observing how things works out gradually before you can be certain that you're going to the right direction.

BIBLE!
How did we get here?
Why injustice?
What are we to do?
What to expect in the process?
What are the long life benefits?

These are the most important but the idea of trial and error you call science makes no practical sense.

I agree, we should believe in God, a creator or something.

That creator, still remains unknown.

And the quickest way to put a meaning to the UNKNOWN, is to call it God.

You say the bible teaches about applications (general knowledge), and science teaches how application is done (processes) - therefore you mean in essence that, the Bible is the knowledge and science is the process of the idea/knowledge... right?


Okay.


That is quite true, because religion is "first knowledge" and science developed from it.

This also means that, science is the advanced knowledge of the Bible.

So wouldn't it be better to listen to refined and modernized knowledge than listen to background/archaic knowledge?

Bible knowledge = raw rice

Science = cooked rice

Both raw and cooked rice are important, but one is best enjoyed, one is refined, one is complete and one is more presentable, as evidence of finished work - and that is "cooked rice".

And not half cooked/half baked work.

MaxInDHouse:
Now you are accusing yourself!🙂

I told you the practical application of what the Bible teaches just as science will teach you the practical application of how things should be done but instead of focusing on the application you are demanding abracadabra.

The Bible of course told us wonderful things that we can't prove how such a thing could happen just as no faculty could prove how life began but we all agree that somehow life has a beginning so whether Bible or Science both needs BELIEVE in things that is not visible! 😃

There's no way to disprove what can't be seen or perceived for all to see and perceive.

Inventors of aeroplanes are believers, but they didn't use abracadabra or "in Jesus name" or "let there be aeroplane and there was aeroplane".

They used practical scientific methods to build aeroplanes instead.

Years of trials and errors gave them that knowledge.

MaxInDHouse:
There is no way you can disprove God and angels without shooting yourself in the foot!
Ọmọ inventors of aeroplane ✈️ were believers in God and angels o!
So before you can speak boldly about SCIENCE against God and angels try to invent just one thing!🙂

Scientific explanations can be proven in both motion and still life images.

I guess you've seen an aeroplane fly above you right?

But I guess you don't see angels or witches on brooms fly above you?

The idea of dinosaurs is not useless because it's evidently part of history.

And not imaginarily part of history. If I may use that word.

And you will forever sound futuristic because even your "now" miracles aren't working.

MaxInDHouse:
There is no SCIENTIFIC EXPLANATION to prove anything as long as we can't see it in motion just as you are demanding from spiritual explanation.

The benefit of spiritual explanation is that whatever we say will affect people now and in the future whereas the idea of dinosaurs is useless now and forever!🙂

The good thing about scientific explanation is that, it's not postponed or hidden.

But your spiritual explanation is hidden and postponed as if you are buying time to cook up answers somewhere.

MaxInDHouse:
So you too can believe what you never saw in mission shey?
Is it not the explanation of some people that you relied upon when talking about dinosaurs?
Ọmọ you are just deceiving yourself!🙂

No, I haven't seen a dinosaur in person, but I have seen photos of the specimens.

That is more believable to a reasonable degree.

Not the story that Jesus came in the 19th century to set up JW Organization in a land that will be greater than all nations.

Jesus came and no trumpet was blown nor heard?

Give me a break!

MaxInDHouse:
Have you seen a dinosaur before?🙂

I understand why Jesus didn't want to advertise his powers.

One could assume he was being careful or uncertain about his ability.

What should be asked if JW Organization members in Nigeria are Israelites?

It's very convenient to hide under the canopy of deceit.

Many things people didn't believe in this world, like the universe, dinosaurs etc have been later proven to people through science after billions of years.

Your religious miracles such as "everlasting life" is yet to be proven 1000 years after.

In the next 1000 years, another crop of people will still be promoting Jesus is coming..

After 5,000 years, the same message by the descendants of the same crop of people will still be saying Jesus is coming to give everlasting life.

Is it when a giant asteroid hits planet earth and destroys it after 100,000 years that everlasting life will finally take place?

MaxInDHouse:
Miracles happens everyday among God's people but the spectacular display you are expecting won't be given to you.
When Jesus said adulterous generation of his time were seeking a sign but none will be given {Matthew 12:39} it's not that Jesus himself wasn't performing miracles but they are making special demands as if God owes them {Matthew 12:38} whereas they are seeing the signs foretold that the Christ will perform! John 11:47


God foretold that Israelites will be driven away from that place and they will have to scatter among the nations. Leviticus 26:27, 33
So no faithful individual excepts to see the old twelve tribes of Israel again today!🙂

All one sees in your religious rebuttal is a hopeful but hopeless messaging by mortals.


You speak in future terms, when the present times are most evident.

You admit your earthly organization is not perfect and one shouldn't expect miracles...

So where did the "miracle of everlasting life" come from?

Israelites were not perfect and yet the Israelites of biblical years (God's people) are no where to be found...


No single news of oldest men and women alive in any newspaper or encyclopedia.

Or perhaps, maybe God has been keeping them in a freezer for 1000 years.


Look, be real with yourself. There's no hope, any JW Organization member will be alive forever, nor will go to heaven on a spiritual aircraft.

Whatever you're seeing or being told by your religious teachers, is creating what is called "Barnum effect".

Your doctrine is an illusion - science fiction and archaic and backward knowledge.

Life in 2026 is like driving a car, while a tiny group of believers (JW) are still using chariots.

MaxInDHouse:
That is what you are expecting: MIRACLES
Before you believe in the Good News of God's Kingdom shey?
Well you're never going to see that {Matthew 12:39} but members of the true religion are seeing all the signs because we believe in God.
For your information it's in progress as Jesus foretold:

“Truly I say to you, no one has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for my sake and for the sake of the good news who will not get 100 times more now in this period of time—houses, brothers, sisters, mothers, children, and fields, with persecutions—and in the coming system of things, everlasting life." Mark 10:29-30

Note the highlighted in red Jesus said Jehovah's Witnesses will have families all over the earth which is happening right now then he went on to say we will have everlasting life when God's Kingdom begin operating. So if what he promised us in this system of things is fulfilling in our eyes surely we are going to live forever when God's Kingdom comes! Matthew 6:10; Psalms 37:29


Who told you that God's earthly organization is filled with perfect humans? You keep on showing how low your reasoning is. If everyone in Jehovah's Witnesses organization is perfect what other miracles do you expect unbelievers like you to see?
Ọmọ when the true God insisted that Israelites are his chosen people they were not perfect and that's what other nations fighting and getting destroyed before them expected to see. So keep on waiting for signs that you will never ever see! Matthew 12:39🙂

According to you, "Jehovah's Witnesses is the narrow road leading to everlasting life" - Yet no JW member is 300 years old on earth.


You say: "people set standards for themselves as Satan insinuated" - Well, Fela set the standard for himself, as he was able to predict the Nigerian government and Nigerians attested to it - he was like a mini Jesus too.


Also, I don't get the issue with politics. Even the churches do politics including your church. You have ushers, head ushers, security department, production department, junior pastors/teachers, senior pastors/teachers - and in all, there's likely still in-fighting and hating amongst you.


Your denomination/church/religion (JW Organization) is as imperfect as everybody and every system on earth.

MaxInDHouse:
Since you don't believe in the spiritual you only believe what you can see this will be extremely difficult for you to grasp.
Well for your information Satan is the spirit behind this system of things and the politics worldly people are practicing so those involved will continue hating, fighting and killing one another.
You once said:


So each person can set standards for himself or herself just as Satan insinuated. Genesis 3:4-5
So continue but know that politics is the wide road Jesus said is filled with many people going into destruction {Matthew 7:13-14} all those involved will continue hating, fighting and killing themselves {Revelation 6:3-4} on the other hand Jehovah's Witnesses is the narrow road leading to everlasting life which only a few are finding all those in it have love among ourselves {John 13:34-35} because the true God who is LOVE dwells in our midst! 1John 4:8🙂

You must know, incase you don't know that - politics is important in every society.

Without politics, there will be no functional society.

Those who join politics, do so, to make societies work.

So that people can be safe, businesses can function well and churches like JW, can function and derive tithe as well.

Also note - there are politicians who still have great relationships with their families and friends and examples are Barack Obama who still has a wonderful relationship with his family and friends; Goodluck Jonathan who's still with his family; Yemi Osinbajo who still has his family together; Theresa May who also still has her family together and many others.

Your religious teachers are Propagandists.

I also think you are a POLITICIAN as well...

You likely got a university degree for yourself when you were still practicing Islam.

After getting your degree, you found yourself in JW Organization where you are now taught the opposite of everything you learnt in school.

It would be deceit to say you believe in your religion and at the same time, still believe in science that you were taught in school.

If you were a JW member when you were to write WAEC or JAMB and asked how the earth came about in Geography, that would be the day your faith would be tested - whether you would write "big bang theory" or Genesis chapter 1 for a Geography exam...

If you can oppose, so many scientific explanations on here, how can you and your religious colleagues survive daily in a practical world of unbelief.

If I may ask: If you were invited to a Game Show on TV to win N1million - and asked this question:


"Hello Max! Here comes your question...

"Name ONE Religion from the following options...

"(A) UEFA
"(B) UNITED NATIONS
"(C) JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES
"(D) ISLAM

You will be a POLITICIAN if you choose Islam.

And you will be an UNINTELLIGENT PERSON if you choose JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES.

You know in the deepest part of your heart, what you would choose when a million naira is at stake.

If you walk the path of ignorance or have an extremists belief, you will find it difficult to have friends and survive in society.

If you're surviving in society with such extremists view, it's definitely not God protecting you as you would like to assume - you are probably conforming to societal norms and returning to your church every Sunday in sheep clothing (pretense).

MaxInDHouse:
Since you don't believe in the spiritual how on earth can you understand this?

Well continue with the religion of your choice: POLITICS.

The only thing i want you to know is that people whose interest is in politics can never ever have any real families or friends because politics will always turn them against their loved ones but whoever is interested in the true religion will always love his fellow worshipers just as Jesus loves! John 13:34-35

Keep that until you realize it in the future!🙂

My last paragraph in my rebuttal is important.

If you sit for an examination with this deliberate ideology, you will certainly have a re-sit multiple times.

First, Jehovah's Witnesses is a denomination in Christianity and not a whole religion as you are taught to assume.

All denominations are and should be registered ®️ under the Christian Association of Nigeria.

If you consider politics as a RELIGION just to win an informal argument, then it will be understandable.

But if you consider politics as a RELIGION in truth and in sincerity, then it should be a major concern.

I want to believe you're joking.

And I also want to believe that your JW commentary of it being a Religion and the True Religion is a joke as well.

MaxInDHouse:
There are only two religions on this planet:

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES

and

POLITICS

So continue with your choice of religion!🙂

Very interesting to know you could fish out my interests so well.

Politics, religion, business, philosophy, science and other subjects, are part of the education system in the world.

Everyone is expected to have a general knowledge of all subjects.

So, being read in politics, religion, business, philosophy, science and other subjects make you EDUCATED.

One can be a specialist in theology and have no knowledge of other subjects

One can have knowledge of other subjects and be brainwashed by religion.

Nevertheless, it's also interesting to know that being born again doesn't exempt some persons from passive-aggressive behavior and emotional reactions.

I'd like you to seek enlightenment beyond your religious knowledge base, the same way you investigated my political interest.

MaxInDHouse:
First go and cure yourself from the infection of POLITICS then i will agree that you are TRULY EDUCATED!🙂

My goal here is to make people think.

On the contrary, I'm not deceiving myself. We think differently.

I'm a practical thinker; you are an abstract thinker.

That's why it may feel extremely difficult to think like me.

And that's why it's extremely difficult for me to think like you.

Education plays a role in everything you know today.

Whatever you are exposed to, determines how you think.

So, you have the free-will to believe and worship anything you want to believe, regardless if it's wrong or right.

MaxInDHouse:
It's OK there is no further need talking to you everyone has the right to choose what they will believe and you can't be exempted.
Now i know you just want to deceive yourself and looking for people like you for support.
This is what you want everyone to join you in saying!




Whether you like it or not faithful people who love God will continue to worship Him.

Thanks for wasting my time!🙂

Fantastic question!

I would say number 2, but not directly.

Here's why: people in the biblical days are no different from people of today.

Jesus read the patterns of people in his days and likely predicted their behaviors in the future.

The natural environment of the biblical days is no different from today's environment. Same earth, same sand, same water.

Jesus and other writers in the Bible saw the patterns of the natural environment and likely predicted outcomes of the environment in the future.

Today, scientists, predict human behaviors, give predictive weather forecasts etc based on patterns and probability.

Anything can be guessed quite accurately with presents facts in front of anyone.

You can guess a paper on a table will fly away if the wind blows - it easy to predict that. No need for magic to predict that.

So if you assume Jesus predicted the future accurately, it most likely coincides with what scientists already predicts.

Everybody is a mini Jesus.

MaxInDHouse:
So if what Jesus foretold in the Bible is happening just as he promised to do who would you conclude is doing it?

1. Charles who was wrong until his death.

2. Members of JWs coincidentally.

3. Jesus the spirit king.

If a response is clearer, it shouldn't require further questioning.


I don't totally believe in God. However, I tilt to physical inclination than spiritual inclination.


Earthly activities all show physical efforts than spiritual efforts.


If anyone sees a spiritual effort in any part of society, that area or community will become deserted in one minute.

Everybody will runaway.

And that's realistic.

MaxInDHouse:
Someone said:

Your response is:

And you asked no further questions are you just wasting my precious time since?
Please if you don't believe in God there is no need for this discussion!🙂