Kayjordan's Posts
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The issue with "Defenders of Christianity" is the inability to separate spiritual context from physical context. If I ask a physical question - I get an abstract response that doesn't relate to current societies. How can 21st Century people work with biblical knowledge of ancient times that are too "supermanish" for a physical and secular world that has never seen any of the magic that took place in the biblical stories? MaxInDHouse: |
What about if he grows it wisely? MaxInDHouse: |
So who are these true servants and what types of riches are you talking about? MaxInDHouse: |
Let me put this way; JW member gets a windfall amount of millions either through inheritance or merit award... Would it still be right for such member to be rich? MaxInDHouse: |
Your first paragraph here suggests - "A child who should never ask his mother the history of the family". If man is discouraged from understanding his environment because his God doesn't want him to, then such man is created for the enslavement of God. The headline of my article while structural sound, may seem heavier than what people would generally assume - and that's because the article is unconventional and requires unconventional thinking to decipher. Whilst the devil is all you've described it in all manners of negativity, it doesn't isolate the general misconceptions person's have about certain people's behaviors - for example; a strict person referred to as a "witch" in common settings. The entire point you made on the devil's definition in your rebuttal, still affirms my submission of man's nature. Laws which are created to discipline man, in some significant cases, can be a tool of oppression or unwarranted control just as practised in your faith which you so preserve. For God to create laws He flouts but expects his subordinate creatures to follow, is a white flag and even to those who promote His self-centered laws - it's white flag to them as well with a bronze medal. Whosoever believes in "air", is not ENLIGHTENED; if I may - and such person revolves around a circle with gaps - for those gaps, shall lead "whoever" to clarity and freedom and away from religious politics and bondage - but unfortunately, they're clinically blind to see the gaps. martinskelly: |
Therefore, a JW believer must be modest - yet Bible verses would say - "for man shall be blessed with riches"... as prosperity pastors often highlight. So, what's your definition of "riches" in this context? MaxInDHouse: |
So if one (JW member) wins a lottery and becomes a millionaire - what would such member be advised to do with the money? MaxInDHouse: |
In other words people should not help the needy if they have the capacity to? Also what should be ones motive to work hard and become rich? MaxInDHouse: |
It's a true life story illustration you gave. The "unconverted" converts you mentioned, had a choice to face reality and stop self-deceit ! When one knows a certain lifestyle described as "wise" is not sustainable, they drift. One thing one should know is that, being "Holy" isn't sustainable but being "natural" is permanent. MaxInDHouse: |
Whatever man achieves on earth be it money, houses and cars is not meant to be taken out of the planet - these are earthly materials and not spiritual matters - so what is fundamentally wrong is discouraging acquisitions - for whatever you acquire is for your comfort here on earth - not in heaven - if your desire craves for more wealth - it is for your comfort. What about one who acquires riches on earth and uses it to help others? Has one done wrong for chasing wealth to help mankind? MaxInDHouse: |
Interesting illustration! Certainly, people will learn from their mistakes because life is a teacher from a philosophical perspective. The funny thing - some people often forget what they learn - NATURE. When one doesn't know why he's in a rehab center - you said: the effort of all those who took him there is wasted - is synonymous to a "wasted time trying to convert a Supermarket Theif". MaxInDHouse: |
Your Bible chapter and verses simply mean - "Money is the root of all evils". From a spiritual and philosophical angle, man must be content with "all" he has - but the nature of man is a "wild beast" - that if not controlled, would lead him/her to steal or sin generally. For this is the reason complex man is tamed by laws. The beauty I want you to appreciate is not the "act" itself which is the "condition" you earlier mentioned - but the "engine" behind the act - is what you should appreciate. A man's brain is fixed and molded. Even alcoholics that go to rehab, can return to alcoholics once again; even a born again Christian that gave his life to Christ, can return to a sinner once again. MaxInDHouse: |
I acknowledge your submission and observation. While it's true that a lack of evidence doesn't necessarily mean "NO EVIDENCE" - it's largely about consolidating the "facts" with our limited understanding - what would a mere man literally believe in - "paper" or "air"? The clear observation on the article's title is welcome - but the word usage serves a functional purpose. Humans in modern societies, certainly have a problem differentiating between "nature" and "sin" - so by associating the two words, it creates a unified understanding thereof. Yes, there's an atom of morality in everyone - that is what we refer to as the "angels" and "demons" - which is believed to reside in each person. Situations in life decide which to switch to and which to provoke - it's human nature. Free will which you have described as ENLIGHTENMENT is correct. Science introduced proper education to humans - in a bid to upgrade the human thinking and make humans work with reasoning rather than imagination. WISDOM doesn't mean "no it all" - as you implied - and you also say it's application - be it accumulating knowledge or a willingness to learn - helps us solve problems - A FACTUAL point you've made - it's therefore the reason man has been "enlightened" as you noted, to make the world a better place - be it for the "world" at large or for "self" - for nature grants man the "will" to make a choice. martinskelly: |
You asked: How do you compare a pauper to RICH Adam? ANS: By comparing a petty thief that stole tomatoes at a market - to a wealthy politician that stole billions of naira from a government's treasury. You stated JW members are admired for not having security personnel follow them - why should security personnel follow you in the first place? Now let me give you wisdom: "Man have insatiable wants" - man can never be fully satisfied - you must continue to buy food, clothing and provide shelter for yourself - even after retirement, fear will control you and you will still want more security for the future. No matter how rich you are - if money doesn't make you ask for more - then it would be another desire that will. Adam was rich as you quoted - but he wanted more - he wanted POWER! MaxInDHouse: |
I understand the empathy in your analysis. If you ask a NATURAL BEING why he stole - given the fact that you KNOW he would lie - it would be a fantastic way to release more bandits into the society. If JW members were police officers, criminals would be glad to be arrested by you. Your Tinubu’s son VS Poor man's analogy - shows a man's condition is to be blamed rather than the person himself - while this is empathetic - it doesn't address the true nature of man which you claim that Man "planted" in himself - and that nature is GREED. That's why I mentioned earlier that - you can't change man's nature; you can only regulate it with constitutional laws and the enforcement agencies. Even Adam and Eve, broke the law - and God didn't show mercy like a JW - he punished them accordingly. MaxInDHouse: |
Then you live in an ILLUSION! You live a false life - but when you know you have an audience, you switch to "righteous". What you perform in JW is "Theater Art" - all because of a Kingdom inheritance that even a Preacher doubts exists. This why I propose originality. MaxInDHouse: |
Psychologically, your body language displayed in replies suggest "insincerity" which is typically referred to as LYING - a broken commandment law. You're too human and Nigerian to do what you say you would do to a Supermarket Theif. Subconsciously, you'll be MOST likely to call the police than let a criminal go with mere corrections. I'd like to assume you said all that just for this debate - because no one in such a situation, would keep his/her job in that Supermarket after that day - and even worse, such person would be tagged an accomplice. That definitely would tell you the reality of a natural world; not a superficial world you paint. MaxInDHouse: |
Then that will be a classic example of - "Go Supermarket Theif ! - for your sins are forgiven". Yet - you preach your God will not spare unbelievers on the surface of this earth - and will destroy them. You also said that man planted the "idea" of sin in his head - and that it's not of God's creation - yet Adam and Eve planted the idea of sin in their minds - and God didn't ask them "why they sinned" - he immediately punished them by throwing them out of Eden... This is religious hypocrisy of the HIGHEST LEVEL - or maybe it's a case of different TV sets receiving different signals from the same CNN America - A.K.A (Confused Religion). MaxInDHouse: |
Science is in no competition with any school of thought. It's main mission is to clarify things. Your Grandma practiced both science and nature. Any one can work with things of the earth to create solutions - and that's what we call NATURAL SCIENCE. Whilst we have basic understanding of science, there's an advanced science that requires more than seed planting - it requires highly technical experimentation. MaxInDHouse: |
I got your "excuse" point correctly! So, from your response below: If you're a staff-member of that Supermarket, you would tell the other staff members and the management that you don't need to check the CCTV Camera of the Supermarket to detect the thief? - and you mean you will tell the management to find out the main reason why the accused person stole from the Supermarket instead? And what would happen next? MaxInDHouse: |
Farming is AGRICULTURAL SCIENCE. If anyone plants a seed in the ground that is - NATURE. If anyone studies how the seeds grow - that's - SCIENCE. Religion has no business with science as it can't understand it; the same way Science has no business with God as it cannot study God. MaxInDHouse: |
A fantastic bye-pass of question. Your usage of a morality excuse doesn't answer the direct question. Please re-answer the questions as if you were in a live situation: >>> "Spiritual people only double-guess and print them on papers as scriptural evidences. You as a JW member won't believe any one is innocent in a supermarket (for example) until you see the CCTV - is that correct? Or would you consult the Bible to reveal the culprits?" MaxInDHouse: |
No, simply because it will take millions of years to achieve that but certainly they will get a pre-result over a period of years. Just as I answered your scientific question now in a direct manner - I expect you to answer the CCTV question in a direct manner in the next rebuttal I'll make. MaxInDHouse: |
If you say "GOD" - then that's your best effort. Now, to the question I say I'll ask you over and over again is in this former rebuttal below: >>> "Spiritual people only double-guess and print them on papers as scriptural evidences. You as a JW member won't believe any one is innocent in a supermarket (for example) until you see the CCTV - is that correct? Or would you consult the Bible to reveal the culprits?" MaxInDHouse: |
There have been series of genetic mutations and experiments conducted by scientists. Reproductive specimens have been experimented on in labs to create alternative knowledge of how humans developed into beings. The difference between the Bible's discoveries and Scientists' discoveries is = VERIFIED PROCESS. That's why I asked you the CCTV question - which I will type out for you again in the next bubble. MaxInDHouse: |
The process was taught in senior secondary school - do you remember? If don't or were not taught - here's a brief overview answer: Life began as a group of tiny-like tadpole organisms that developed in stages over a period of time on earth. At every stage of development, life began to take various forms. The last stage of full development led to the early-man period. Overtime again, full development of humans began to go through refinement - where humans started changing from ape-like beings to human beings. This process happened millions of years ago. How this was discovered by scientists was through a process called "archeology" which is the discovery of artifacts and bones underneath sand in the ground - and these specimen were taken to a laboratory to provide the answer you now seek. MaxInDHouse: |
I haven't changed the subject. The subject was thoroughly answered. The person behind the foreknowledge of scientific inquiry from your perspective (Bible), can only be answered by you - for you are the Defender of the scriptures. You have refused to answer the CCTV question. Please Answer. MaxInDHouse: |
The reason I will place scientists above God is because they show "processes" as evidence of discoveries. Spiritual people only double-guess and print them on papers as scriptural evidences. You as a JW member won't believe any one is innocent in a supermarket (for example) until you see the CCTV - is that correct? Or would you consult the Bible to reveal the culprits? MaxInDHouse: |
The only things you've shown me as foretold is the Babylon story and scientific evidences - which are highly imaginative despite true life pictures of them. "Show me the process, not the result" - says the Wise ones! If you do "Mini mini MI Ni mo" - you can luckily guess an answer right. About your evidences foretold - I would give you a typical illustration that weakens them: We live in an audio-visual world where everything you hear must be backed with images. For example, If you "hear" someone talking, you are more likely to peep at who's talking just to "see" that person - that's the natural instinct of man. Humans are wired not just to hear things but see things. If people keep hearing from a religionist, things they can't see, they are likely to lose trust in such religionist. You say the Bible predicted Babylon's collapse and it came to past; you also say the Christianity discovered the elements and science of the universe that set the benchmark for other schools of thoughts - while these maybe true, there are also false prophesies that never came to past or are yet to come to past. For example; Christianity never predicted moving vehicles, skyscraper developments, telephone connectivity etc. It's selective or better still, not robust enough. The entire information of Christianity can be found all in one book (The Bible) with a thousand pages. Science on the other hand is robust with tens of books on various branches of science. While I give credit to religion for discovering the "raw meat" - I give ultimate credit to science for "cooking the raw meat" for the party. There's a popular song in Nigeria titled "Audio" - that depicts fake living - in this context, it depicts "Noise" without "Action". The story of Jonah in the Shark's mouth is likely a classical "Audio" - this is why I say so using present day analysis: "God instructed Jonah to go to a particular city to preach and he refused - and all of a sudden we hear a shark swallowed him and dumped him at the very city he didn't want to go" While it maybe true he arrived the city involuntarily - there's no "visual" proof to show a shark took him there - neither is there "visual" proof that "God" instructed him - it could have been a Prophet mistaken for God who instructed him - also Jonah may have fallen into the water accidentally and swept away by it to the shores of that very city, but the event is being mistaken for a "shark". The reporters of the Jonah story may have started the story from a casual conversation between two fellows over the incident and one of them (using typical human interactions) may have suggested to the other : "maybe it's a shark that swallowed him and landed him there - and the other fellow would report what that fellow told him to another fellow saying - "they said it's a shark that took him there" - and before you say Jack Robinson, the first-hand information would change and be misinterpreted - and a beloved writer would hear the altered version of the story and document it as the miracles of God. There's no difference between how human beings interact in modern societies today and how humans interacted in biblical times. Largely everything you've read in the bible or heard is a collection of truth, hearsays, imagination, guesses and personal biases. MaxInDHouse: |
Fantastic questions! The scientists discovered gravity, shape of earth and other discoveries mostly in the 16th and 17th century. Questions answered. Christianity is definitely older than these discoveries. One the other hand, you assert Christianity discovered the elements of the universe first - the question is how? MaxInDHouse: |
It's good to know you find this hilarious. As mentioned in my last rebuttal, religion is foundational knowledge of what we know. Ancient people not necessarily Bible characters contributed to science. Historical figures in ancient Europe like in the stories of Roman empire, Julius caeser, Merlin and Kings Arthur periods all deviced crude equipments to understand their world. This was the beginning of science. The biology, chemistry and physics are the buildings on that foundation - or the finished products of ancient discoveries. So, from your submission - you clearly state how physically and spiritually inclined religion was. Nevertheless, religion of today and yesterday has proven to more physical than spiritual. MaxInDHouse: |
These are referred to as COINCIDENCES - as you asked. Religionists certainly do have brains, so do philosophers - they all contributed to the foundation of knowledge today. It's fascinating also that you answer questions of beliefs with "beliefs". When you're asked a question about your belief, you reply with a Bible verse evidence - whilst, I don't have a transcript of biblical times from a time machine, I would reply you with everyday people's experiences as my own evidence of what happened in the spiritual and biblical years. The Bible in my opinion is a diary of many writers of experiences in ancient times. Writers of the Bible - be them John, Saul, David etc... documented important physical events in Jerusalem, Israel and Egypt - they acted like news reporters of the ancient times. In the ancient time, messengers of God were sent into towns and cities to spread God's messages - but some faced resistance from people in these towns and cities just as it's happening with today's evangelism. Some messengers of God including Jesus, were likely called fake prophets back in the time and only a few listened to them - which is similar to today's pastors often called fake prophets. Many writers and messengers in the bible, practiced observation of significant persons through one-on-one conversations and written descriptions of persons and events to preserve memories. Every accurate story and misinterpreted story (rumors, hearsays) were told to these writers and documented. The stories of Demons, Daniel in the Lions den and Jesus resurrection were all word of mouth narration of events largely overemphasized or misinterpreted through multiple-person dissemination. Nevertheless, writers in Biblical times documented them all. The documentation of miracles in the bible such as Jonah in the Shark's mouth, Jesus multiplying bread and fish to Moses dividing the red sea - are metaphorical accounts of physically-inclined moments that took place - rather than actual supernatural events. As a result of low-education in the Biblical days, people were gullible and all-believing. Rumors of miracles or events were unfiltered and disseminated throughout out cities - as similarly done in modern day media. Over time, these rumors, miracle exaggerations and detailed accounts of Biblical experiences became beliefs and were archived in scrolls and passed down generations to the medieval times when scholars decided to put these historical pieces of information into a single book called the Bible. The Bible then became the Google of yester- years (B.C & A.D) - and people began to meditate on it. This era (medieval period) was religiouly extreme to the point that some persons accused of witchcraft were stoned to death. Overtime, enlightened persons wanted to convert a society of anarchy into a society of laws and this movement led to the scientific inquiry period. Moving forward, many countries in the world, began to abolish many beliefs that were harmful to humans, thanks to the new education (science). Society started progressing with modern age thinking and things that couldn't be seen nor explained, began becoming clearer to the people overtime. In some modern and civilized countries today, religion is seen as "taking people 100 steps back in history". Science is providing these people with quick answers to solve immediate problems - unlike religion that tells story excuses and provides zero solutions to their current world problems. Please note: The above is a personal opinion of the Bible creation, not verified history. MaxInDHouse: |
