₦airaland Forum

This clarifies what I want to know.

You've identified your stance and defense on all matters discussed here, as spiritual rather than physical.

So, I understand better.

I would conclude - the physical world harbors spirituality even if not seen nor perceived with the five senses.

MaxInDHouse:
Do you believe in the spiritual?

If so how does it affect the physical?

But if you don't there is no need arguing about God because God is a spirit! John 4:24

That's a straightforward answer.

EnemyofGod4:
God doesn't exist, there's no way an imaginary God can answer prayers.

Well written explanation.

While your write up sounds realistic in the part of Charles setting up a student Bible association, it also sounds unrealistic, saying Jesus was involved.

If I may ask, was Jesus involved in the creation of JW Organization physically?

MaxInDHouse:
This is what most people think too but it's not so!🙂

In the Bible Jesus promised that when Satan has caused chaos on planet earth turning everything upside down he (Jesus) will return and reestablish his group in the time of the end because a small group will be seriously making research to know the truth. Matthew 24:45-47

Of course most people said Charles is the founder of Jehovah's Witnesses but Jesus proved them wrong!

How?

All the days Charles led the international Bible Students Association himself and all members of the group do celebrate birthdays and Christmas this Jesus later corrected in the year 1926 proving that the group wasn't Charles's founding.

Untill Charles died in the year 1916 the group remains International Bible Students Association this Jesus later corrected in the year 1931 that the name God intended to call all his worshipers is JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES!

Untill the year Charles died he was to be referred to as "PASTOR" this Jesus later corrected that we shouldn't bear religious titles in his group. Matthew 23:8-10

So my friend it's a lie Charles is not the founder of Jehovah's Witnesses organization but Jesus himself that's why no religion on this planet is meeting up with all the promises God foretold about His worshipers in the last days!🙂

I quite understand your truth!

Your truth is your "truth".

I don't how your truth feels in your heart - if it feels convincing or if it feels uncertain...

Your write up on JW and how it evolved and how Jesus returns, sound like the parables of yester years.

One thing to note here is that, "imagination" is the best any human of any race can achieve to create a spiritual meaning.

When imagination is challenged, the most convenient defense is - "we owe nobody explanation of God's miracles".

Ofcourse, that's a simple and typical way to bypass proving what can't be touched nor created - simply because your miracles are likely fictional stories of coincidences and psychosomatic experiences.

The "truth" I think you should know is: The God and Jesus Christ of JW Organization and other religions and denominations, is actually "MAN" himself and no other.

The " Jesus Christ" that set up JW Organization in America was the very founder, Mr.Charles Taze Russell himself in physical flesh and blood - not Jesus the Spirit - and not a spirit possessing a man either.

Above explanation is based on the physical human environment every one can understand - not the Harry Potter environment of Jesus Christ came back and set up a religion in a country after 1000 years.


If you believe your storytelling, then you're most likely telling "tales by moonlight" stories to children of the world - or seeing unusual things mentally.

MaxInDHouse:
This is what you supposed to have said all this while twisting the issue here and there.

First of all Jehovah's Witnesses is never an American religion that is what faithless people are saying so ask for wisdom that is from above.

But for the benefit of honest hearted and sincere individuals following this thread i will explain.

God established pure worship in the land of Israel but the Israelites keeps on going back to false religions which led to their condemnation {Matthew 21:43; 23:37-38} from the first century till the 19th century Satan decided not to allow true religion stand himself and his human agents (world rulers) continue to put a ban on Christianity in all places while promoting his own that the Bible called "Babylon the Great" Revelation 17:5-6
From Jerusalem to Rome to England and other lands world rulers keep on persecuting true Christianity while they are propagating false religion in the name of Christ until the 19th century when America declared freedom of speech expression and worship started fighting against any country that's enforcing one religion on people or banning any form of worship as long as the religion doesn't cause any harm in the human society America will defend the right of those practicing it. That was when true Christianity got her freedom spiritually and Jesus used America as the base to establish his congregation and continue the work that was stopped by the Jews in the first century.
So today everything Jesus said about his group has been fulfilled by Jehovah's Witnesses because that is the group he is using therefore don't deceive yourself thinking it's an American religion rather Jesus is the one who established his group in the country where freedom of speech expression and worship was declared.

And for that reason there will never ever be any country that's going to conquer America in fact God has said in His word that it's the system of government established by America which is DEMOCRACY that will be ruling the earth until God's government come:

“In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand forever" Daniel 2:44

The above prophecy means when those practicing democracy (government of the people who made up the majority) is dominating planet earth then God will bring His own system of government that will no longer be passed on the other individuals (as they are voted in and out today) or from one ethnic group to another as it's been done today. God's own government will then rule planet earth forever.

Ọmọ this is the truth if you care to know!🙂

I love truth!

Truth that isn't influenced.

Jehovah's Witnesses is an American religion created in the 19th century or so.

The Catholic Church was created way longer - and all of a sudden, a new movement call JW organization becomes the true religion...?

I personally think it's a smart tactic by JW to claim they existed since the time of Jesus when the founder of JW was only born in the 19th century.

MaxInDHouse:
Obviously you hate the truth!🙂

Ask anyone to come and use the Bible to defend their faith nah!

The Bible only established Jehovah's Witnesses the only clause is God didn't mention the name specifically otherwise all those false religions will start claiming they are Jehovah's Witnesses if it's written in the Bible but all activities and results points to Jehovah's Witnesses.

That's why you need to call them to come and deny with Scripture if they are true Christians!🙂

One doesn't need to bring a bearer before a jury to defend his religion.


The confidence of any believer, would show in their body language, attitude and lifestyle.


It's okay to think your faith is absolute - but bear in mind that, it's not printed nor established in any media or Bible.


Your faith will continue to be in competition with other faith.


One neutral knowledge in-between all religions is agnosticism. The belief in a God and no God.


It's safer to be an agnostic than to confidently "assume" you have found the path of righteousness.

MaxInDHouse:
Never!
You don't need to speak in defense of fake currencies call its bearers out to come and defend their currencies just as i'm doing!🙂

Do you know your confidence in JW as the true religion, is a carbon-copy of the confidence of a Redeemer, Deeper life member, Catholic, Seventh day Adventist member, Muslim and Buddhist?


It's just like saying Nigerian jollof is the best - when a rival Ghana thinks Ghana Jollof is the bomb.


If I can ask you the above question: which jollof is the best?


Obviously, you would say you haven't tasted Ghana jollof before.


And that will subconsciously make you still rate Nigerian jollof as the best.


Your religious judgment is fuelled by personal experience and not universal experience.


Your religion cannot speak for others. It can only speak for you and your camp.

MaxInDHouse:
Here is what i meant by CENTRAL BANK. Everyone agreed i mean nobody has ever disagreed with what you typed below.



So that stands as the world's central bank therefore any religion that fails to meet up with this features is like FAKE money that's worthless when you take it out for trade.

WHY?

Because it will always lead to strife and trouble among those using it to trade among themselves whereas those using the real money from central bank (true religion) will always live as if they are one family.

Today there is no religion apart from (Jehovah's Witnesses) that could unite people of all races instead there faith will become useless and worthless in the face of politics and racism just as fake currencies will turn it's users against one another. While your own brother may like to cover you knowing that you are carrying a fake currency someone who doesn't know you will never cover you but if its original money everyone will accept it whether they are related to you or not.

That is what only Jehovah's Witnesses are doing globally today that no other group can because they are all using the fake money FALSE RELIGION!🙂

Hmm!

I like the Central Bank analogy.

The difference between Central Bank and your idealized "True Religion", is that Central Bank is an institution agreed on by majority of the people.

Everyone knows Central Bank is the Apex bank and not Gtbank or Union Bank.

But for religion, everyone believes their own religion is the Central Bank.

That's the problem I'm trying to fix.

MaxInDHouse:
According to the true God nobody chooses true religion at birth so children born to Jehovah's Witnesses only become members after they have studied the Bible, take their stand for what they learned and go out to preach and teach others in their neighborhood before they are baptized as Jehovah's Witnesses.
So my families chose what they want to be just as makers of fake currencies choose how to trade in the society but that doesn't mean the central bank will approve all the money found in circulation!🙂

To be honest, what you've written is good advocacy for the JW Organization.


I know you are a Muslim converted Christian and I'm really curious to know if your family still practice Islam..


If they still do, it would be equally unfair to say they've made a wrong choice.


The case of religion should be viewed with different lenses. No one religion can be proven more "right" or more "wrong".


Neutrality is key.


If you are trained to make your bed every morning after you wake up, you will see that as "good".


If you are trained to NOT make your bed every morning after you wake up, you will see that as "normal".


So the two above trainees will see their respective lifestyles as "good" over a period of time - and both will condemn each other's lifestyle strongly.


In some situations, when a child exhibits different traits from the family, such child is likely to deviate from the norms of that family.


So, this doesn't affirm any one is right, but rather it affirms one did what was right for oneself.

MaxInDHouse:
First of all i wasn't born a JW instead i've listened to different religions until i found this truth.

Secondly below is what you typed with your own hands the only difference i just replaced RELIGION with RACE.



Why?

Because false religion can't unite all the people on this planet but the only true religion will so no matter your tribe or nationality if truth is your goal the true religion will unite you with people like you whereas there is no religion or organization that can unite people of all races apart from Jehovah's Witnesses!

Unless of course if you don't really want to know the truth!🙂

I agree with you.

In Sociology, it been theorized that religion was invented to create fear.

In the old times, education wasn't strong - and people had no choice than be "gullible".

Everybody believed in one religion or the other out of fear.

When people started getting a bit of education, extremists Christians and Muslims began the destruction of people who went astray.

Fast forward to contemporary times, the result is already manifesting in society.

Religion bombing, killing other religions...

Haram on many lifestyles...

People hating one another...


Yet, one "Good God of All Religions" allows all to happen? - We don't know!

Maybe people are misrepresenting God and mixing the purpose of God with their preferred lifestyle choices.

If so, that would be an adulteration of God's intended wish.

But frankly, I'm of the opinion that God and Religion are man-made ideas and tools, used to scare people away from resources of the earth for selfish interests.

sonmvayina:
As far as as I know, it was Christianity that brought the war. Before then, the only war people fought was to expand their territory not religious.
What was obtainable before Christianity was different cultural beliefs. The yorubas have their ifa in Africa, the greeks, the Romans , the indians, the Mayans...etc. it was Christians who wanted to impose it's beliefs on everybody that brought this constant bickering. And it is a JJC in all of this. It was Christianity that brought religious wars, then later it's younger brother Islam took the baton and took it further after Christianity grew tired from killing and slaughtering people.
It was man wanting to control and dominate other people that lead to this matrix we find ourselves.

This is still a subjective belief.

"Matthew 7:16-18" - can be read with different wisdom and judged with different opinions.

A strong reason why you defend your faith so well is because you've been emotionally invested in it long term - and it will be difficult to accept any other belief beyond what you know best.

Practically writing - this is how bias gets created - this is how supremacy gets created.

Not just with your religion or faith, but with every other.

Have you ever heard this quote: "people are terrible judges of other people's actions and fantastic lawyers of their own actions"?

MaxInDHouse:
That is exactly what Jehovah's Witnesses have done!
All others are false religions that is why they can't produce that fruit you are expecting! Matthew 7:16-18🙂

You're correct.

There are many channels to a God.

A critical problem is that almost all channels are at War.

One "Good God" supplies each channel weapons (Holy spirit or Spiritual powers) to fight one another.

The real question is: would a Good God create this religious chaos, or did man himself, create this ideology of an imaginary one "Good God" that has created avenues for various religions to exploit to their advantage?

sonmvayina:
There is ONLY ONE indivisible, omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient creator of all. The yorubas call it Olodumare, the igbos call it Chineke......just the name that is different.

There are several aspects,laws and principles of this one God. Most people have personified this aspects, the yorubas calls them Orisha. Some people like to go to God through them. As for me I go directly and I get instant result.
I decree it and it is established.

No " in Jesus name" bull crap or "through Christ" bull sheet.
When I finish I say Isé or Asé.

You indeed gave a straightforward answer, however it can never be complete.

What your answer suggest is called - "subjectivity" - meaning your personal belief.

The intention of my question, is to probe the extremity of religion and seek neutrality of a universal knowledge.

That universal knowledge is God and at the same time, UNKNOWN.

If your religious practices are clean and Holy to you, that doesn't mean they are clean to other types of believers. That's the core point I'm making here.

Infact, a unique Christian demonination somewhere on this planet, can rate their faith as 100% God's one and only religion and call every other demonination including JW (which you call God's religion), devil's religions - even if all use the same Bible.

It becomes a matter of "only us are the best" - and that's why I stand by the fact that, there's no universal or unifying knowledge that unites God's people across all religions into one formidable religion and denomination.

Except if one exist.

MaxInDHouse:
This is why i don't answer questions directly!🙂

You asked a straightforward question:



I gave you a straightforward answer:




But instead of asking for proof you went back to quoting faithless people!🙂

You wrote: "JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES that is the only religion"

Well, that's your appointed truth and neutral ground - and I understand.

Philosophy actually says there's no ABSOLUTE TRUTH.

So JW might as well be as biased as 1,000 religions that exist.

Therefore, no faith is superior.

MaxInDHouse:
That is the question every sincere and honest hearted individual should ask but its a pity that most people shy away from it.
Well since you have asked i will give you a straightforward answer.

There is only one true religion and its known today as JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES that is the only religion where you can get belonging to Jesus and mind you it is not a denomination of any religion it stands alone!

It's been 1000 years since God destroyed inhabitants of the earth of this kind.


Now the world has approximately 7 billion money seekers and nothing has happened so far.


The world doesn't have 2 inhabitants, nor 8 inhabitants currently.


God's destruction of inhabitants all happened within that 1,000 year period.


1,000 years after, no Bible story of mass destruction of inhabitants so far.


Many have predicted God's wrath severally, but none have come to past yet.


That's why I asked if there's a neutral judge of truth to know if "your truth" is accurate or if other "believers' truth" is accurate?


To know if prosperity is "good" or "bad" - it should be up to something to tell which it is.


Some will say that the Bible says - "God blesses people in riches and in glory" - wealth oriented people.


Some will say that the Bible says - "God is thy rock and thy salvation" - eternity oriented people.


Are either orientation bad? NO ONE KNOWS


Because you will use a JW defense to defend the right one - and another will use an RCCG defense to defend the other.


JW will discredit RCCG sermon - and RCCG will also discredit JW sermon.


People are therefore stuck in the middle of two or more FAITH.


NO NEUTRAL Ground nor Supreme Judge to separate either faith.


Everyone is saying YES to their faith, and NO to others.

But don't want their faith to be told NO as well.


So which denomination or faith or sermon is the TRUE SHEPHERD? ...

MaxInDHouse:
The Bible God said He created just two humans one male and one female which lead to the world's population today so if this God destroyed all the inhabitants of planet earth in Noah's day only to preserve eight humans, if he destroyed all the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah only to preserve Lot and his two daughters i'm afraid this God can destroy billions just to preserve 1,000 that proves worthy of everlasting life! Luke 17:26-27🙂

I like this!

Now, if you do the math, it's practically:

*1million prosperity prophets VS 1,000 humility preaching prophets.

*7billion world money seekers VS 5,000 financially humble people.

TENTATIVE FACTS

Would it be accurate to say the Christian religion has evolved rather than say practicing falsehood?


What is a single "neutral judge" of original truth (Godliness) VS Sentiment, since the Bible can be manipulated through various interpretations?

MaxInDHouse:
Simple!
Imagine yourself in a place where fake currency is rampant the first thing you need to do is get a copy of the the real currency and study its features so by the time you see the fake money all you will do is examine critically to see if the features are present!🙂

So if no single worshiper of God in ancient times prayed for riches and most of God's servants weren't materially rich whoever is flaunting riches can't be a worshiper of that God.

Jesus is the only begotten Son of God and he was materially poor in fact in net worth Jesus has nothing at all:

“Foxes have dens and birds of heaven have nests, but the Son of man has nowhere to lay down his head.” Matthew 8:20

That's what Jesus said about his net worth so if today you are seeing men on pulpit so rich and praying for riches even teaching their followers to do the same then you should be able to know where they belong! Jeremiah 9:23-24

Interesting!

You know every prophet called themselves true prophets - both true and false prophets did call themselves that.

So the question is: what differentiates a true prophet from a false prophet in a world that is heavily OPINIONATED than spiritually inclined?

MaxInDHouse:
Well you are wrong!
Back then there were false prophets in Israel so whoever wants to pray for riches goes to them and worship other Gods.
That's why Jesus told his listeners saying:

“No one can slave for two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will stick to the one and despise the other. You cannot slave for God and for Mammon" Matthew 6:24

That is the demon people worshiped in ancient times for money so when they are praying the false prophets the people are following knows that it's not to the God of Israel they are praying but they kept deceiving them saying it's the same God! 1King 12:28

After the establishment of Christianity these demons started disguising so that their worshipers can also claim they are Christians:

For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps disguising himself as an angel of light. 2Corinthians 11:13-14

So both the demons and their agents changed their identity using Jesus name to operate! Matthew 7:21-23🙂

If I am to answer that, I'd say because "THEY DIDN'T HAVE A CHOICE".


The environment and authority in the biblical days, didn't create a room for a great need of money.


But certainly, the drive was present in the hearts of men, but the environment wasn't enabling enough unlike today's environment of roll royces.


If you have an answer to the question, I'm willing to know...

MaxInDHouse:
The question you should have asked is:

Why is it that none of God's worshipers asked for money in prayer!🙂

I'm interested in reading the link you've provided on how to pray and get answers.


However, there's probably a difference between getting physical answers and spiritual answers.

power50:
Yes. God really answers prayer. Our problem is that we don't know how to pray the right way. Download HOW TO PRAY AND GET ANSWER here https://selar.com/17x1442x91

If no one could ask for money from Solomon, it doesn't change the fact that they weren't in "need" of money.

So what Solomon couldn't provide to people, the modern day Pastors provide them through prayers.

And the people obviously believe, the prayers are responsible for the cash flow.

People then and now, care more about money than wisdom.

MaxInDHouse:
Of course nobody could approach Him for riches because they know He won't listen that's why there is no record of any of His worshipers asking for money!🙂

Hmm!

WISDOM.

Please note that life in biblical times is no different from now.

Also, not everyone in biblical times asked for wisdom. Society has always been diverse.

If wisdom was so rampant in biblical times, the laws of Moses would never have been made.

People wouldn't have been punished if all sought wisdom.

Only Solomon sought wisdom amongst God's people - that i know of. All other God's people lived quite imperfect lives.

Modern times is likely a reflection of biblical times.

Life wasn't perfect then, neither is it now.

MaxInDHouse:
It's simple the only type of prayer you can find among God's people in Bible times is wisdom no one ever prayed for riches among God's people!🙂

First: the Bible chapters and verses have multiple interpretations. So a singular verse could mean money, health or wealth.


Second: Level of understanding matters. If you have a certain level of thinking, you are likely to interpret verses as it pleases you.


So, directly answering your question Max, one cannot point to a specific part of the Bible of archaic English, where "praying for money is mentioned" except if I can be proven wrong.

MaxInDHouse:
To know whether you are right or not just quote a single verse from Genesis to Revelation where a worshiper of the Bible God prayed for money!🙂

No one has caught each other yet. You are yet to prove your financial worth.

It common not associate wealth to numbers but to something of virtue. Infact wealth can be anything.

When you kept mentioning poverty, I began to wonder if you meant numbers...

So your defense that you're not here to show off - and your statement that I'm making an issue out of it is incorrect.

You are the very one, making an issue out of it by associating social status to the argument and to every other argument in the past.

That's why I assumed you're an AMBASSADOR of Poverty a time ago.

That's why it still seems your endorsement deal doesn't expire.

So, as a master of your life, supply yourself what you need. I as the master of my life, I am supplying myself riches in all forms.

Dtruthspeaker:
See how i caught you that you are poor? So also would you have caught me if i was too. So, it's proven already.

Secondly, i did not come to show off my wellness, you were the one who made an issue out of it because of your poorverty mentality, which you are still doing even now. Rich people don't prove that they are rich. So, you clearly don't have any reasonable thing to say on this issue as my wellness still won't remove you from your poorverty and vice versa. So since you are the master of your life then supply yourself the riches you need! Shikena

I actually don't pray. I act.

Action births results.

That's why a pastor tells you - "pray, but put in the work first'.


I'm only creating an awareness of reality. The reality is: you don't need to pray to see results.


But if you choose to pray, that's fine. While people waste time praying before acting, others would act swiftly without delay.


I have no proof of God, nor can I disprove him, but what is factually evident, is 100% human action in this world - not spiritual action in this world.

Dtruthspeaker:
Did i say i was more valuable than you?

And since you are the master of life then you have no need for prayers and you should not bother whether God answers prayers.

This is where it becomes tricky...

Which GOD can be before another GOD?

Also, how do we go to Him directly without walking up to the wrong GOD?

If you ask a Muslim, he would say go to Allah!

If you ask a Buddhist, he would say go to Buddha!

If you ask a Christian, he would say go to Jesus!

If you ask another Christian, he might say go to God only!


So, how can one know which God, one shouldn't put before the other?

sonmvayina:
Yes, but it has to be done as he asked. Go to him directly.
"DO NOT HAVE ANY OTHER GOD BEFORE ME."

This doesn't suggest that you, Messenger of God is more valuable than me.

God doesn't need to use you nor any Messenger to answer anyone.


Everyone is a master of their life and actions.


Every word you type is your creation and not of God nor the Holy Spirit.


If you think it is, then you're hallucinating like millions of Christians worldwide.

Dtruthspeaker:
True!
You have value but do i need or want your value? No

I am answering you not for myself but on behalf of God who always has already answered you and always has someone to answer you.

How confidently can you prove that you're not POOR?

If you can tender your statement of account and ID card, then you will be worth listening to - and hopefully we can find out for real, if you aren't poor.


But when you defend your social status in a common manner by boasting with God, you adopt a cheap publicity rather than an expensive one.

Dtruthspeaker:
Who told you I'm poor and that i am not where I want to be? I don't want to make you miserable but the thing is those of us who have found the salvation of God are enjoying our lives, why do you think that we can confidently say that God answers prayers? We know why He does not answer others

What a person desire is actually a set of choices.


Your orientation might teach that your desire be kindness - while another person's orientation might teach something different totally.


The only problem noted is that, different types of Christians use the same GOD to pray for different things (whether good, moderate or bad) - and they always believe God answers.


Humans seem to create their own truth rather than search for one.

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus said:

So that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens, since He makes His sun rise on both the wicked and the good and makes it rain on both the righteous and the unrighteous. Matthew 5:45

Our struggles for material riches is not God's business what we praise Him for is the undeserved kindness to achieve what we desire not that He answered selfish prayers.

Well noted Max, but there are many Christians who pray for selfish things - get it - and attribute them to God.

Can one reliably say God still answered?

MaxInDHouse:
It depends on what you are praying for!

God is not related to anyone so before praying/asking Him for anything think about the fact that He is the father of all those living on planet earth whether good or bad He doesn't grant anyone's selfish wish! Matthew 5:45

Since you're anti-rich and PRO-POOR, are you happy with the current life?

Or are you angry that you don't belong where you wish to belong?

Dtruthspeaker:
Poor atheists. Always thinking that riches cures everything.
Like you would be happy if he is a billionaire tomorrow. You kukuma know that no one will answer your prayers

Good question!

Those who know my value, will answer me.

Are you not answering me?

Dtruthspeaker:
As you are who will answer you?

It's easily defended that God answers in different seasons, but what we can't differentiate is if : coincidence of events made a wish happen or whether God Himself, made it happen at his own time.

The processes are what persons don't see.

RhemaJet7:
God is a God of times and seasons.
His thoughts are different from the thought of man.
You can pray and not get immediate answer, that doesn't mean that God didn't here you, He may decide not to answer your prayers at that moment for a reason, but in future, the prayers could be answered.
At the same time, God still answers immediate prayers.
I am a living testimony.

God be praised!