₦airaland Forum

immaculatesense:
The concept of hell according to my close study of scriptures have beings well defined by the English translation. The Hebrew did not do well about it too while the Greek did a very good job about it.
1. English (KJV) used Hell for everything.
2. Hebrew used Sheol for everything.
3. Greek used (1) Hades (2) Gehenna (3) Tartarus

So, when a person mentioned Hell (English), before I comment, I ask the question, Which one?
Hebrew - Sheol is used for common grave when all men will end.
Greek (1) Hades is used for the grave where all men will end.
Greek (2) Tartarus is used for a very dark place where disobedient fallen angels are held until the day of judgement.
Greek (3) Gehenna which has been used in two ways both literal and figurative.

Literal because there is Gehenna in Israel during the Second Temple era till the days of Jesus and the Apostles where dead bodies and refuse were dumped and the fire burns continuously and there is always worms.

Figurative because Jesus used this literal place to exemplify the LAKE OF FIRE prepared for the Devil and his fallen angels and also for people who lived wickedly and their names are not found in the book of those who will live forever (book of life).

So, it seems you and Max are speaking two different things. He is speaking about the Grave (Hades) and you are speaking about the Lake of Fire (Gehenna). Both of you are right from your perspective. It is English that sum them all as Hell that brings about the discrepancy.

Thanks.

I am very acquainted with all the usage and it's origin. I have a whole book on this. Max problem is that he doesn't believe at all that there's a literal place of torment called hell. He also doesn't believe that those thrown into the Lake if fire will experience unending torment. They are taught to believe that they just go into a state of none existence. They interpret the phrase, second death as none existence. But I have proven to him countless times that it isn't so with evidence of the scripture. But he still holds on to his lies. He will believe in it when he gets there but it will be too late.

psucc:
The Church of men. Go on. Offering and tithe Pastor. You're only concerned about the numerical strength and never their spiritual welfare. Of the crowd you pull, how many of them are heavenly conscious?

You may have the crowd but truly God's not there. Enjoy your 1k book sales.

Who told you I am only concerned about numerical growth. I have another book that talks about different dimensions of church growth. I am a balanced teacher and well equipped for the assignment God has given me.

MaxInDHouse:
You don't understand idioms so there is no way your brain can work to grasp that but one thing is sure God never talked about anything after death from Genesis to Malachi so whatever you read that contradicts God's word in the New Testament is an Idiom that you need to understand not literal!

You are wicked. When you see any truth that doesn't agree with your lies, you call it an idiom. You are possessed with demon who is bent on standing on lies.

Truthseeker10:
Oga kindly come up with your diagram because you are even confusing yourself on this trinity matter. You are just jumping from pillar to post.

I said it will require a book and not a diagram

MadamExcellency:
Who asked him? By the way, which wife are we talking about? Is it his mistress since the marriage wasn't registered in any court or marriage registry?

You stole my words. Reno is jobless. Is the subject about beauty? In more civilized countries, the Senate president will be asked to step down. Evil men justify evil and condemn the innocent. They will not escape the righteous judgement of God.

MaxInDHouse:
Hell is common grave of mankind Adam, Eve, Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses and Elijah are all in Hell so stop deceiving yourself!

In your common grave, people weep and gnash their teeth?

In your common grave, are there worms that do no die?

Does your common grave have a gate?. Jesus spoke about the gates of hell.

Can Satan who is a spirit being be buried in your common grave? Jesus said that hell was prepared for the devil and his Angels. So how would the devil enter your common grave?

You problem is pride. You have belived lies for so long that you don't want to admit it even in the face of overwhelming evidence of the scriptures that says otherwise.

Keep defending the lies of Russell and Rutherford. You will burn in hell if you don't repent.

immaculatesense:
Okay sir.
If we can agree on the following then, it means we are just speaking for the same thing in different forms.
1. The Father is God
2. The Son is God
3. Thw holy spirit is the spirit of God (Father and Son)
4. The Father is greater than the son.
5. The Son is subject to the Father.
6. The Son is supreme over all things except the Father.
7. The Father is supreme over all things including the Son.

Do we agree sir or are there still grey areas you don't agree?

Thanks.

Sure. You forgot one
The Father is equal to the Son in a context.

Jesus said, I and my Father are one.- John 10:30.

The Jews knew what he meant. So they said:

John 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

When they accused Jesus of making himself God, he didn't say that he was not. Rather, his further comment affirmed that Jesus is God. And he is one with him.

Even Paul wrote in his letter to the Philippian church that Jesus:

Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God - Philippians 2:6.

So, in a context, Jesus is equal with God. In another context, the Father is greater than Jesus.

Truthseeker10:
Does the diagram you agree with Say that the "Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God and christ" or that "God is the Holy spirit, The Son and The Father"?

There is no way the diagram can fully explain the mystery of trinity. It will take a whole book to do that. And, I will come up with one very soon.

Steep:
what is the difference between Almighty God and God?
The bible says there is only one God not one Almighty God and another smaller god.

God is Almighty and Almighty God is God.

psucc:
You still keep roping yourself in every bid to justify your book. I only have one thing to tell you and that will I insist on,; any Church, any Church, any Church that's of God, whose foundation is of God, whose message is Christ and whose goal is Heaven or eternal life with Christ, its growth is the exclusive work of God.

But you see those reservoirs of Hell and eternal condemnation, they will buy the book, employ/apply every bit of it and of course, the will grow and populate. They testify, pray and praise but NOT God.

The numerical strength of the God has nothing to do with godliness. It's man's. Do you know that just 10 righteous men can affect a community? Gen. 18:32

Have you pastored a church before? If you haven't, please keep quiet. You know nothing about church growth.

Most pastors struggle to grow their churches because they reject training.

There are structures that must be in place and you must be trained for effectiveness.

You are a novice. I thought like you when I was still very young in the faith over 35 years ago until I attended my first training programme.

On church growth issues, you are a capital OLODO. So, focus on what you know.

MaxInDHouse:
You've perished already because Jesus is the only creature God made by Himself that's why he is rightly called the firstborn of all creation {Colossians 1:15} he is not God or the father! John 17:3

JW doctrines has damaged your brain and keep you blind. Your brain will reset when you see yourself in hell.

MaxInDHouse:
Olèèèèèèè!
Thief!
The Bible is God's own word not man's so you can't compare God's word with the nonsense you wrote to gather gullible followers and start extorting money from them!

You are jealous. I have what you don't have. I am a gift to the body of Christ. This gift will take me round the world. And it will boost church growth for those who apply the ideas in my books. There's is nothing in your brain that can add value to the body of Christ. Your job is to criticize. But it won't stop me.

MaxInDHouse:
Ole! Thief!
Paul and Apollos preached from house to house and in public squares just as Jesus taught his disciples not sitting down and publishing fake stories to woo worshipers.
It's the preaching that sinks into the minds of listeners and made them believers in God's word so Christianity back then is not about quantity rather it's about quality 90% of attendees at Christian meetings back then were all disciples who can preach and teach God's word not bench warmers.

Paul and Apollos preached Christ. But you don't. Rather, you preach doctrines from the pit of hell.

MaxInDHouse:
When God appointed David as king in Israel does that makes David another creature than man?
So when God appointed one of His sons in heaven as judge it doesn't change his being as one of God's sons to God Himself.
Pastor Piri get that into your empty skull!

You will perish in your ignorance.

Jesus is the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD.

The sense in which angels are called sons of God is not the same as that of Jesus.

immaculatesense:
Correct sir.
The difference between the Father and the Son are
1. The Son proceeds from the Father, the Father proceeds from mo one.
2. The Father delegated ALL his powers to the Son while the Son returns all the glory to the Father.

SIR, YOU HAVE NOT REPLIED TO MY SEVEN POINTS RESOLUTION. I WILL BE EXPECTING YOUR RESPONSE.

Thanks.

Please remind me. I have forgotten. Seven point resolution?

psucc:
So what they did was sold to other preachers? Everyone saw or knows what they did -preach the Word. They didn't sell? Take your marketing strategy off the Church. You cannot add a soul to the Church. It's the Spirit of God that does that.

So, selling information is now an offense. The Bible you have today, didn't buy it? What about the books you used in school? You are talking like someone who is on weed. A lot of churches are struggling to grow today because they lack training. This is why so many have resorted to fetish ways. Is it not better to get the right knowledge than to go fetish?

Papa Adeboye travelled to South Korea to understudy the cell system in Pastor Yongi Cho church which is the biggest single congregation in the world. He knew that there was something they were doing that is making them grow. So, he traveled, bought books. And today, Redeemed Christian church is one of the fastest growing churches in the world today.

Other ministers who did the same thing are getting the same result.

My church growth resources is currently the best in the world. They don't need to travel far to get the right knowledge to grow their churches.

So, please, don't involve yourself in what you don't understand before you expose your ignorance.

immaculatesense:
Yes sir.
Just like the fullness of Christ dwells in me and you. But are we Christ because his fullness dwells in us?
This is Bible interpretation sir. There is no relationship that happens between the Father a d the son that the son does not accord the same between us and him.

Thanks.

The differences between Jesus and us are:

1. Jesus is God but we are gods
2. Jesus is the one appointed to judge the dead and the living.

cornelboy:
Are you saying God was that turned to Jesus?

The scripture says so:

John 1:1=4,14
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, AND THE WORD WAS GOD

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

14 And the Word WAS MADE FLESH, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

The Prophets foretold it:
Isaiah 7:14
14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel

Immanuel means God with us:

Isaiah 9:6
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, THE MIGHTY GOD, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Jesus affirmed it:
John 14:9-11
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

He claimed pre-existence:

John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM.

Only God pre existed.

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the GLORY WHICH I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.

immaculatesense:
Ken
No sir. Okay, what will you say about the seven spirits of God in Revelation. Are they also God? Let's just keep to the scriptures by saying that the holy spirit is the spirit of God and of Christ. Because that spirit is subject to the Son as the son is subject to the God.
The Father is God
The Son is God
The Spirit is the spirit of God (both the Father and the son)

This is the position of the scriptures sir.

Thanks.

So, what have I said differently?

immaculatesense:
Sir.
Interpretation of the scriptures is Key sir.
Now, let me explain John 14 to you sir. Jesus was speaking to the disciples about the Father and all that the Father has in preparation for the saints. Jesus started the introduction by saying, "you believe in God, believe also in me." That is, as much as you have trust in God's words, trust also in my words that when I live you, it is to prepare a place where both you and I will be. So, Jesus was asking his disciples to trust him like they would if God has spoken to them directly.
Philip was curious and was like, "can we even see this Father that you are talking so much about, if we can speak to him, it will be well with us, that is, our belief will be more assured. But Jesus, reaffirming what he said in verse 1, told Philip that he doesn't necessarily have to see the Father because everything he says has been authorized by the Father since he only speaks the will of the Father. It is just like when you are the CEO of your father's company and your father is the Chairman. A company came to deal with your company and you gave them your word but they still insist on seeing the Chairman who is your father. The best response you can give to them is to tell them, "Don't worry, whatever I tell you is what my father will tell you, best rest assured that you got the contract, there is not need for you to see my father, I am his representative and I speak his mind, so be rest assured."

That is the interpretation of the conversation sir. It is try that Jesus is the replica of the Father, but you know also that the word "replica" should that something replicates another, so there are two things. The Father on one hand and the Son (the Father's replica) on the other hand.

Thanks.

The fullness of God dwells in Jesus. Haven’t you read that?

immaculatesense:
Sir.
I think what we have issues with here is ENGLISH. There are three possibilities: greater than, lesser than and equal to. The only time an equation is balanced is when it is equal to. If one is greater than, then the other is lesser than.
Now, there is not scriptures that says the Holy Spirit is God. No single scriptures. So, let's stick to what the scriptures say that the holy Spirit is the spirit of god and of Christ.
The Father sent the son and the son sent the spirit. The Father is not answerable to the son but the son is answerable and obeys the Father. Sir, the son proceeds from the Father, the Father does not proceed from the son. Etc.
Sir, the issue hear is that you need to know the difference between EQUITY and EQUALITY.
EQUITY is a fair distribution where each person did not collect or have equal measure but they have they rightful measure they deserve. For instance, a person works for an hour and collected $50 while the other person works for 2 hours and collected $100 that is equity and that is what happens between a man and his wife and between the Father and his Son. Where both are highly honored and glorified which the accord that is due to them.
EQUALITY on the other hand is a 50/50 thing and that does not exist in a good family system where a woman believes that she must act in the exact form as her husband, such family will end in chaos. The Son does and will never drag the position of the Father as His God and Progenitor, that is why Jesus always accord everything to his father.

Sir, I hope you can just understand that talking about the position of the Father being higher that his Son Jesus doesn't diminish Jesus' position in any ways because the Son did not come to glorify himself but that the Father will be ultimately glorified in the Son.

Thanks. But you have not explained that 1 Corinthians 15:21-22. Please, quote it and explain each statement of the verses. Will really help us understand each other.

So, are you saying the Holy Spirit is lesser than Jesus because he receives instructions from Jesus?

cornelboy:
I would rather focus on what the bible teaches, rather than my imagination.

If you believe Jesus is different person from the Father, how come Jesus is now the father?

Jesus is the visible manifestation of the invisible God. He is a different person but one with God. If you see Jesus, you have seen the Father. You can't see the Father with flesh and bones. Jesus is the one who reveals him

Truthseeker10:
Do you still agree with the diagram below?

How many times will you bring up this diagram?

Yea, I totally agree.
But the three personalities is one God. One God in three persons.

This is why the Holy Spirit is called Spirit of God and also called Spirit of Christ.

Your carnal mind certainly cannot grasp this truth.

You receive it in your spirit that is born again.

psucc:
Go and read your Bible, son of man. If it's the Church of God, you can't add a single soul but you only destroy it by publishing such a book. But if it's a business centre, then people like you are need there.

It's not man that added to the growth of the Church but God.
1 Cor. 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

You just shot yourself at your feet by the scripture verse you quoted. Paul and Apollos did something before God added to the church. Please, don't get involved with what you are ignorant about.

immaculatesense:
Exactly sir. Just as we are in him.
Now, the Father is God, the Son is also God. Correct.
In that Godhead. The son admitted that the Father is greater than him. We cannot overlook that statement of our Lord.
Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:21-22 also stated it clearly that the Son derived his power and authority from the Father and at the end of this dispensation when the salvation of mankind would be complete, the Son himself will subject himself under the authority of the Father and then the Father will be One and Supreme over all.
Sir, read that 1 Corinthians and give me your view over it.

Thanks.

Jesus said his Father is greater than him because he is subject to him. But that doesn't make him a lesser God in his very nature. In just the same way you are not less human because you are subject to your boss.

Do you know that the Holy Spirit is subject to Jesus instruction? Does it make the Holy Spirit a lesser God?

That a husband is the head of his wife doesn't make the wife less human.

MaxInDHouse:
You're full of delusional thoughts my guy instead of quoting God's word to back what you're saying it's just spewing gibberish without control.
So two or three persons are the only true God yet Jesus separated himself from the only true God in that verse.

Ọmọ this stealing by trick has come to an end only fools will give you the tenth part of their earnings as tithe now!

John 14:9-11
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? HE THAT HATH SEEN ME HATH SEEN THE FATHER; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

11 Believe me that I AM IN THE FATHER, and THE FATHER IN ME: or else believe me for the very works' sake

Notice what Jesus said above:

1. He that has seen me has seen the father.

What does this statement mean to you?

2. I am in the Father and the Father in me.

They are inseparable. Jesus is exact replica of his Father.

psucc:
Hahahahaha! When your mates are selling books on business growth, yours on Church growth. Imagine how many of such books you gonna sell to put food on the table for the day for the family.

The church needs growth to save lost souls like you.

There's nothing wrong with business growth but what is the profit if you make all the money and loose your soul?

The afterlife is real. If you are not saved, you will end up in hell fire.

cornelboy:
You believe this yourself?

Let me give you a simple illustration. When you sleep at night, you see yourself in different places in the dream but your body is lying on the bed. Are you not the same person.

What about witches who are in their homes but are in different forms committing havoc? Are they not the same person?

What makes you think God cannot be in heaven and on earth at the same time?

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MaxInDHouse:
So between the father and the son who is the only true God?

You can't separate them. They are both the only true God. One God in three personalities. The carnal mind cannot grasp it.

MaxInDHouse:
Hell is the common grave of mankind so when you die you're going to HELL!

You will believe it exists when you get there. Russell and Rutherford were recently seen in hell in great torment. You will join them soon if you don't repent.

MaxInDHouse:
Thousands of unbelievers have written books upon books upon books but their problem remains the same:
None of them can present a better performing group than Jehovah's Witnesses!

Entertainment group indeed. You will entertain the demons in hell. You will weep and gnash your teeth.