A40:
Omo people were questioning Jayson Tatum on this thread. Odiegwu

The typical 1 bad game lambasting. People sometimes act as if a great player cannot have an okay game once in a while

Bringing back 2 top level defenders is showing in this game.

One thing I have loved about this playoffs so far is that it has shown that the whole a big market team is clearing cap room for big FA is just a narrative the media like to perpetuate. Out of All the 4 teams in the conference finals 3 have not only built the bulk of the team through the drafts, their 1st and 2nd options were also drafted. GSW has only 2 players who have played quality minutes who were not drafted i.e Wiggins and Potter.
Only Miami, got their number 1 option via FA, but most of the team is either through drafts or development programs, their starting backcourt in the conference finals are undrafted guy who they've developed into nba caliber starters.
It just shows that to build a winning franchise all you need is the owners to hire the right guys at the top and let them do their jobs without pestering and rushing them

BlueMann:
41 pts, 5 offensive boards, 9 rebs in total, 5 assists, 3 blocks and 4 steals.

Butler put up a two way clinic last night.

Is he still not fit to be regarded as a superstar? Cause between the bubble an this playoffs, the man has shown that he can be THAT guy. He really can light it up. Especially in postseason.

There are 2 reasons why Butler is not regarded as a superstar, first is that he is one of the few players who elevates their game during the playoffs in comparison to their regular season performances. so you see situations where he his not even in the all-nba list in the regular season, but just turns it up during the playoffs.
The 2nd reason is, he is one of the unintended casualties of the Lebron fugazi ring narrative. if you admit that Butlers bubble playoffs performances has elevated him to superstar levels, then you cannot in the same vein say the guy who beat him won a fugazi or fake ring. So all of Butlers incredible games during the playoffs are put under the fugazi narrative.

The Heat are probably regretting that Duncan Robinson contract, dude cannot get on the court at all

Great first half so far, the Celtics game plan so far has been top notch, feasting on the inside and taking advantage of playing against a smaller team. Already shooting mid 50% from around 12ft in. Ime adapting to the match up so far, waiting on Eric's answer

donlittle25:
Baba, My guy celebrated 37 and he has just been bad. Abi, he spend 4 night inside Magic City for Atlanta ni?

The fall off due to age for athletes is never gradual. It goes from 0 to 80 that quick

donlittle25:
Tell them to shoot three

That the thing, on bad shooting nights, no matter which shot you take as a team, they will end up bricking it. The reason why on a night the team as a whole is bricking the 3 shot is better is because you get an extra point for each you end up making

Roland17:
This is one big reason some folks are hesitant about D. Booker’s ability to lead a franchise. Man has stunk up the joint in this series. He has been outplayed by Doncic and has rarely been the best player for the Suns.

As for CP3, “Father time is undefeated”. The difference between age 36 and 37 is very obvious and opposing teams since the playoffs started are exploiting it.

37 no be beans, the playoffs have shown that they were right not to give Ayton the Max. As for Booker I will not say he has been bad all series, he has played great at least in 4 games, but he is really struggling tonight.
Luka is showing why even though the likes of Booker and Tatum have as good an offensive game and are better defenders everyone who knows basketball still picks him as the better player. They are basically trapping Booker and he his struggling to play out of it.

donlittle25:
Yeah Nigga, You are irredeemable

Oga i am watching the Suns live now bricking midrange shot after midrange shot. Why is there no outcry.

donlittle25:
and some people keep saying this nonsense is a high percentage shot. 2 average good midgrange shooter on that team and everything changes

That is the thing average midrange shooter is what percentage? Is it 40%, 45% or 50%. What is it exactly
The suns just went 3/15 from 2pts in the 1st quarter and nobody is yelling they should stop taking them, if it was from 3 the world will end.
Teams have cold shooting nights, it has always happened since basketball existed, to act as if midrange shooting has not caused teams win or series lose is ridiculous.

PS: My stance has always been, midrange shots should be for star players and great shooters because they are highly inefficient shots.
I will rather my role players who are not great shooters take 3s all night than they take long 2s that they will shoot at a worse percentage comparatively to the 3s.

A40:
I don't know why I bother with him. When he was mentioning Trae Young with Tony Parker is when I should have known he was just trying to constitute nuisance on this page.

Being overly reliant on the 3 makes you highly susceptible to terrible playoff performances. On nights you can't hit you look like amateurs. Guys like Harden, Trae Young this year showed that. Donovan Mitchell too.

All one is saying is that it would be nice if these guys took more midrange shots as there is less likelihood of having ridiculously bad shooting nights that give you no shot

Your assumption, does not hold with the statistics, you mention the Rockets lost a game with bad shooting form 3s and I can mention series that were lost with bad shooting nights from long 2s. The Lakers lose to the Pistons ,the 2 finals losses by the Nets. All these series were lost because the losing team shot a bad percentage from 2s.
Your problem is the same problem most people who don't understand statistics have, the fact is, what we assume as common sense and statistics don't always mesh.
There is a greater chance of a team shooting less than 50% from 2s (which constitutes a poor FG%) than a team shooting less than 35% from 3, and that is an irrefutable fact.
let me give you a table of what constitutes equitable percentages cause it seem you don't understand.
Most of the percentages given below I am rounding up to make it easier to understand.

10% from 3 = 15% from 2
20% from 3 = 30% from 2
25% from 3 = 37.5% from 2
27% from 3 = 40% from 2
30% from 3 = 45% from 2
34% from 3 = 50% from 2
40% from 3 = 60% from 2

Any sane person who understands basketball and how shooting can fluctuate on a night to night basis, know for a fact that it is easier achieve the percentages presented on the left that its corresponding percentage presented on the right

donlittle25:


Steve nash and Tony parker are inefficient?

Why you they lie ?

See their FG percentages lol

Steve Nash has repeatedly said it that he wished he had just gone all the way and shot more 3s, during his time with the Suns. The results might just have pushed the analysts to figure out why they were winning with this weird brand of basketball, which is what they did when GSW started doing it. If he and Dantoni had just went all the way, he would have been the figure head of the modern 3 dominant basketball rather than Steph

A40:
I can see that you just enjoy pointless jejune arguments. Whether big whether small. I'm talking of the general dearth in guys that used to be able to knock it down from midrange.

Settling for the way 'easier' shots you cannot make is why a Houston Rockets team will miss 27 3s in a row in a must win game and shoot themselves out of a chance to get to the Finals. It's also why the Suns never made the Finals and even the Warriors had to get a midrange killer to vanquish Lebron and the Cavs

Stop telling me what I already know about the era of basketball we are in. My point was if you're a team with a glaring 3pt shooting weakness do you keep fighting with an arm tied behind your back or have some form of counter. Which is the midrange game if you have a reliable one.

Again you're going out of your way to misunderstand yourself. I didn't say every shot should be a midrange shot. Your analogy is actually useless as Milwaukee shot less than 26% from 3. So your 35% from 3 analogy does not apply. If you're a traditionally poor shooting team like Milwaukee do you fold and keep spamming 3s or play to your other strengths.

Having players that can knock down 45% from midrange is better than a Trae Young that can go 16% from 3 in a series while taking 8 3s per game

What do you mean nobody on my list was shooting 45% from midrange. Prime Dirk was making 60% from that area some postseasons. He averaged 47% his entire career

So all of the great players you listed only Dirk shot a measly 47%, Dirk who is one of the greatest shooters of all time and also 7ft tall. So your logic is that coaches should encourage a shot that only the GOAT and a Unicorn could make at above 45% as a great strategy.
I was using 45% as an example to be generous, there is no way in hell any player alive will shoot 45% from midrange because even the OGs who made it a focus of their game did not shoot 45%.
On a bad shooting night the Bucks who are not the best 3 shot making team, shot 26% from 3, with 24 of those shots taken by role players and they still contributed 21pts.
On a bad shooting night the Suns who are the best midrange shooting team, the whole team went 10/33 and contributed 20 pts to a losing effort. They shot 4 more shots and made 3 more than the Bucks but still contributed less points.

DeRozan is the perfect study for what the midrange game is in this age of efficiency, in case you dont know DeRozan has a way better percentage than Kobe, AI and Tmac and at the same time he, just like them has been for most of his career the guy, who the other team defenses plan for, but you know what his career has amounted to in this age of efficiency, an afterthought.


PS : What you seem not to understand is that a team like the Bucks does not have any role player who is a great shooter. So in that instance the job of the coach is to draw up the easiest shots possible for them. So making them take midrange shots is way worse than them settling for the 3s because they will end up shooting a worse percentage comparatively from midrange.
The same thing goes for most of the league, and do you know what you see from teams who have great/good shooters as role players, they sometimes take the midrange eg, Herro, Huerter

Also as for Trae Young you really expect someone that short in this era of drop coverage to shoot well from midrange, the Celtics with Tatum and co shot 34% from 15ft in, whenever Giannis and Lopez were both on the floor for the first 3 games of their ongoing series. That is what defense in the league looks like now, there is no longer the 1v1 shut down parade that used to occur in the 90s and 2000s that led to the Jazz, Cavs and co leaving MJ 1v1 against average defenders for not only game winng shots but down the stretch of games.

At least the Steph and Draymond slander can rest.

A40:
Wetin and what are you on about? CP3 did not have a bad shooting game he just took few shots. Booker was 6 of 13. He didn't shoot poorly either

Kobe, T-Mac and AI were guys that took contested tough midrange shots and teams focused their defense on those guys. Why is your argument all over the place?

My point is there is no reason today's players in some of these teams cannot have a guy or couple of guys that could knock down 10 to 15 footers like a Pau Gasol, Dirk, Carlos Boozer, Duncan,KG, Luis Scola, Okur, Turkoglu, Tony Parker, Steve Nash those type of guys. Players who aren't completely useless outside that 10-18ft range for the most part.

Oga there is a shooting shots charts online that anybody can go check.
All the guys who were missing 3s today were wings, the Bucks bigs only shot 5 3s today, so don't put up a list of big men and talk of 3s.
Steve Nash, Tony Parker were both highly inefficient from midrange so stop with this Bobo that you are trying to sell.
I have repeatedly said it on this platform, the midrange pull up or jumper is the most difficult shot to take and make in the game, so to expect guys to take em when they are way easier shots to take is just ridiculous.
There is a reason all of the coaches in the NBA even those of the old school all accepted this 3 ball era and it was because they were shown irrefutable evidence that very few players are efficient from in the midrange game and it the job of every coach is to get your players as easy a shot as you can get them at any opportunity.

PS: Let me explain the maths again in case you did not understand, it is stupid to take 15ft at 45% when you can take 3s at 35%. Per hundred attempts the midrange gives 90pts, while per hundred attempts the 3 yields 105pts that is a whole 25pts difference.
Finally all the people you listed non of them shot 45% from the midrange, which just shows that my 45% example was way generous

A40:
No shit Captain obvious. I'm saying there's an overall lack of proficiency in the midrange game. Mikal Bridges is primarily a slasher or he shoots 3's. Not a guy with a reliable 10-15 footer. He's shooting 27% from there this postseason.

You're making my argument for me.

What of CP3, Booker are they also bad midrange shooters. You keep bringing up this argument as if we all don't know if we judge by modern standards the likes of Kobe, Tmac and Ai so called midrange masters will be called inefficient shooters. The only wing player in history who shot the midrange at an efficient percentage is MJ and that is the whole list

A40:
Also when I talk e go be like say I be one of those grumpy old men. The general lack of midrange game was on full display again this time for the Bucks. Nobody that has a reliable 12 to 15 footer anymore. It's either 3 or die.

Oga the suns yesterday shot nearly the same percentage from midrange yesterday in their own loss. MIKAL alone at one point was 0-6 or 1-7, what is the difference.

PS: The bucks went 7-29 from 3 for a total of 21 pts. The Suns yesterday went 10-33 from midrange for a total of 20pts.

44pts and 20rbs and you still lose. Win-Loss records are sometimes unfair in team sports

Robert Williams is not playing again, just hope coming back early did not worsen the injury long term

Android22:
I knew I was angry the other day but that does not mean I would trade Steph, Draymond or Klay in that order. I was only angry because those vets knew exactly what to do to get that W at Memphis but they decided against it. What did they need to do? Play smarter and with energy. Box out during rebounds, be ultra aggressive when defending, fight for the loose ball, protect the ball well when passing, take less contested shots and pretty much just be gritty. They just could not get themselves mentally to do it because they knew they still had a chance to do so at the Chase center which is why they collapsed.

Memphis is not 39 points let alone 50 points better than GSW on their best day. So when you see a scoreline like that without their best player, it is just down to effort. We all saw Timberwolves win 4 games in their series against Memphis without proceeding to the next round because they too were naive. Are you going to tell me Minnesota are better than this current Warriors? Not at all.

Sure, Memphis have height advantage over GSW but this last loss was the only game they outrebounded GSW in the whole series. That shows what I have been saying: lack of effort.

Draymond said they got so used to guarding Memphis a certain way because of Ja and that readjusting to the new way Jenkins has them playing is like starting a new series. In part, I believe him. But this Memphis team has no one initiating their offense and they are not that great a shooting team to have done that much damage to GSW. So now that we have all had a few days to bi nu and Kpa ri wo, we will give them the business and get set for the WCF.

Meanwhile, I don't fear either the Suns or the Mavericks. My argument has always been in comparison to the Bucks and Celtics because that is the true ECF being played. I do prefer to play the Bucks though, because Jrue Holiday is competing with Mrs Curry as who is actually Steph's beech. Giannis can have 45 per game and still catch that L with their lengthy players who are not that great at guarding the perimeter. But you see the Celtics, if they can get a player that is better at game management than Smart and Tatum, the series would have been over. Forget Giannis' heroics, the Celtics are better than the Bucks. E too clear.

Agree with some of what you said, but saying the Grizzlies team did not have someone to initiate the offense just tells me you don't know who Tyus Jones is, IMHO the dude is at this moment a slightly better half court PG than Ja.
Ja is way better than him as an all round player, but just in terms of running plays especially for others in a half court setting, he is slightly better especially when he is on, and he was on in game 5

Blueelf:


He does nothing special. I have asked you if he is averaging up to 9 assists sef. You came with story.

Baba does nothing special....nothing at all

Baba does nothing special, but people who are paid millions to both construct basketball teams and also critique basketball teams, non of them have ever said Draymond is overpaid or should be traded expect for you.

Blueelf:


You really do have comprehension issues. I knew it. You may even be typing with the help of a translator..who knows?

I said, make Poole focus of offense and get a legit big man defender. If possible trade looney and green for a big like the 7ft guy in Utah....if the jazz would agree that is

Poole is a more efficient scorer and plays his heart out every game because he has a lot to prove. Steph and green has won it all and play like they are being forced to..especially Steph. Which serious player runs a podcast during a playoffs series ? Not a serious player for sure

Poole is an efficient scorer when nobody is specifically game planning to stop him. Watch him when Steph and Green were out....OH we have already seen him without Steph and Green, during the same final 20 games you keep insisting that GSW were atrocious.
So your genius plan is to pair Poole with Gorbert, a more limited offensive and defensive player than the Draymond Green you are insisting on shipping.
Keep to what you know baba, because constructing a basketball team is not one of them

Blueelf:


There's nothing Draymond does offensively that no other person in the league does. There's nothing special in what he does. You're acting like he's averaging ten assists per game. Is he?

The dude doesn't even average double figures in points. So what is he doing?

Abeg make we hear word. At least stats don't lie

This just shows your level of basketball understanding. Draymond does not have assists because he is the guy that plays the pass before the assist pass. It's like saying Modric does not have huge assists numbers so he is not a good midfielder.
GSW offense is one that needs an initial initiator and is predicated on continuous ball movement with players knowing where to be based, on where the ball currently is.
You say what does Draymond do, I say watch how many times in a game he is pointing where one of the others is supposed to stand or, where the pass is supposed to go, or when he is pushing his own players away from where they are, because that is where Steph is supposed to relocate to. Draymond has the highest basket IQ on the team and it's not even an argument, so please know what he does before you start saying he does nothing.

Blueelf:


Yes I would do so

Because e have a Payton and Jordan Poole who arguably has been our best player in the playoffs

That's the bold step I would take. You saw me say - take the bold step right unless you have comprehension issues

Besides Curry has been playing very badly since before the all star break. Right now curry is only a threat from three and even that is slowly fading. Many players shot better than him from beyond the arc this season. This is the beginning of the end for Steph curry.

As for Draymond, man doesn't bring anything to the table - either offense or defense. How can you expect a 6'6 dude to guard Adams...no matter how stubborn Draymond is, he can't do anything against a human freight train like Adams.

I would focus on my young talents like Wiseman, kuminga et al. even if it means missing the playoffs next season. I like to think long term

A logical argument would have been to attach a contract to Wiseman and get back bodies that can actually help right now. Not trade a top 5 player and a top 3 defender. You saying Payton and Poole are the best players shows either how little basketball you watch or if you do watch them how much you don't understand.
Payton plays well on defense and in transition because he does not have to carry the offensive load, Poole is balling because defenses are not schemed to stop him and so he always has maybe the 2nd or 3rd best wing defender on him without any help at all.
Make Poole the focus of the defense and watch him crumble immediately, dude has never faced a trap defense and you are already anointing him as the not just the heir to Steph but also the reason for trading him. Baba you too funny

Blueelf:


You can't argue with what I said

Steph is a defensive liability yes or no?

Draymond is an offensive liability yes or no?

Klay plays both sides of the floor well yes or no?

Steph is just stat padding these days and doesn't really care if the team wins or losses yes or no?

Rodman was a offensive liability too, Dirk was a defensive liability. I will be tactful and just assume you don't watch the games you only just look at boxscores. Klay who has been missing defensive assignments like Harden and bricking shots like Westbrook is the person who is playing both side of the ball, baba abeg watch games not boxscores.

Blueelf:


Thank you for pointing this out

Exactly what I have been trying to imply

How the Bleep did we think we could get through without a traditional centre

Draymond is 6'6 at best. He isn't a traditional centre. I don't even though what that dude brings to the team apart from unnecessary shouts and triple singles.

Draymond needs to leave. And we trade him for a traditional big man abeg

The last 20 games of the season you keep hammering is a perfect snap shot of what Draymond does for GSW.
Dude is a top 3 defender in the league and practically runs the offense. Asking what Draymond does is like asking what did Rodman, Ben Wallace, Bruce Bowen all do in their playing days.

benji93:
You know it's a good thing you don't occupy any management role at GSW.

Assin, I just keep seeing blasphemy all over this thread. So they lost by 39 pts, so what is just 1 game. Stan van gundy always said that every playoff loss counts as 1, it does not matter whether you lose by 50 or by 1, both counts as one loss.

Blueelf:
GSW front office needs to take the bold step and trade either Steph or Draymond and leave Klay Thompson.

Steph is a defensive liability who is no longer a 3pt threat. These days, he's just an inefficient volume shooter

Draymond is an offensive liability who is punching way above his weight by playing centre.

Either of one of them should be traded asap

So your idea is to trade the best player, and the best facilitator and defender from the team and leave the 30+ year old wing player, who not only just missed nearly 3 years of basketball, but we are also not sure he can get back to his pre-injury form. Your GM skills need a lot of work

donlittle25:
Lmao my cousin just called me to inform me and i came here to make sure it’s true. What in the world

This game is weird, things like this happen in the regular season but seldomly happen during the playoffs. The Grizzlies have 7 players in double digits with over 8 minutes to go in the 4th. Just weird

birdman:
Can someone explain the x/os of the celtic loss. That was a gutsy comeback by Bucks. I feel like Celtics folded mentally

Just rewatched the last 3 minutes on youtube and IMHO based on the final sequences, the loss was not on any failure pertaining to XnOs. The loss boils down to effort by Bobby on the put back, timely shots by Jrue and Giannis on those 2 late 3s and finally incredible defense by Jrue to get the block and the presence of mind to throw it at Smart and keep it Bucks ball.
So the loss boils down to the Bucks 2 big shots making plays on both ends and Bobby getting an incredible offensive board plus the basket to give them a 1 point lead.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=st3PF3Wx6vg