₦airaland Forum

garyarnold:
There were three different tithes, each with a different definition, different purpose, and with different instructions.

Leviticus 27:30-33, Numbers 18:  The First Tithe - a tenth of crops and animals and commanded to take the tithe to the Levites.  This tithe is the one church leaders use (and change to fit their needs).  This one is sometimes called The Lord's Tithe.  It is the ONLY one of the three tithes that God claimed was His.  This was a yearly tithe.

Deuteronomy 14:22-27:  The Second Tithe aka The Festival Tithe - a tenth of crops, plus add to that the firstborn animals, and take for the yearly feast.  

Deuteronomy 14:28-29:  The Third Tithe aka The Three-Year Tithe aka The Poor Tithe - a tenth of crops, kept at home, and invite the Levites, widows, orphans, stranger to eat.

Don't forget Leviticus 25:3-7 – The seven-year sabbath for the land.  Because there could be no sowing or harvest every seven years, there was no tithe on the seventh year.

Furthermore, the ONLY people in the Old Testament that were commanded to tithe were those who INHERITED THE PROMISED LAND WITH EVERYTHING ON IT. They got the land, house, animals, crops, etc. ALL FREE AND CLEAR. No mortgage payment or rent to pay. And THEY were commanded to tithe on the crops and animals and take it to the Levites who INHERITED the tithe INSTEAD OF the promised land with everything on it.  No one else tithed.  Wage earners did not tithe.  Jesus didn’t tithe.  Paul didn’t tithe.  Peter didn’t tithe.

That was a thoughtful piece. I will have to read those scriptures and tell you what I think later.

Joagbaje:
@kunleoshob
My life outside nairaland should not be your concern .I am a successful business man. And a giver to the work of God . several friends know me here.  If a have a  pastoral responsibility or not it shouldnt be your headache. it's has nothing to do with my post . You judge my post by the word of God and learn . What are you afraid of? Either you like it or not , I will say the truth of the bible . Please stop harassing me on Nairaland . Thanks

No one is harassing you my good friend. If you do feel harassed, then please accept my apologies. If indeed you are a pastor, then your take on this issue is very vital. You made statements without scriptural backing hence the reply you got. Tithing has been a very skewed aspect of the recent Christian theology and I believe that the fact that many Christians don't search the scriptures before they follow their pastors blindly without asking any questions, is a very dangerous practice. It is even made to look like disobedience when you have a dissenting opinion.

The issue of tithing needs to be discussed openly. Running away from discussing it because of pre-conceived ideas or the fear of doing something wrong, is in itself, ungodly.

Jigawa

Atiku 17
GEJ   100

Lagos
Atiku 3
GEJ 52

Zamfara Atiku 70, GEJ 7 !!!

Zamfara no dey carry last!!

reindeer:
The facts have been laid out, people will decide what they want.
some will be lucky at the end of their studies and get tier 2,many wont be and will have to go back home,so no big deal
Some will learn from experience,let people deicide what they want.
I am sure anyone who has read through the whole thread will see facts where presented and see conjectures where no facts were made available.
Let them decide.

You are the man. I can't say more than what you just said. Cheers

@ Tensor,
You've called me every name you can think of (King Knog, M.O.R.O.N, S.T.U.P.I.D, Illegal immigrant e.t.c , ) but I will not play the same game with you.
1st of all, I am not an illegal immigrant. I came to the UK as a student and studied in one of the best schools in the UK. I am on the Tier 1 General now. It was only possible for me to do this because of my profession which helped me to earn enough to be able to apply and not because I was exceptional.

I have a lot of friends who have gone back to 9ja because they could not convert from the Post Study Work visa when it came to an end and they left the country cursing and feeling a bit ripped off (hence the God forsaken country in my statement). Of the lot that I schooled with and those that I know who did their B.sc and M.sc here, only 1 (ONE) is on the Tier2 visa and believe me, I know a lot of people. He/She did not get the visa because he was exceptional or the best. He/She got it because of his profession (I think he is in the Health sector).

I also know one or two people who have decided to stay beyond the validity period of their visa which I think is dumb!!

What then is my point? The passion with which you insult people with a dissenting opinion in this thread is quite shocking. Anyone who have passed through the system will know which of us is telling the truth. This thread was created because I saw how people suffer here after they graduate and how they moan that they did not know it will lead them to the dead end they found themselves.

I say it again. If you intend to come to the UK to study and then go back home(and you have a huge financial backing), then thats fine. If you have any intention of settling after your studies, please think carefully and if possible, have an exit strategy for  going back home. Experience is usually the best teacher but you can learn from other peoples experience.

Hmmmm

Joagbaje:
There is a yearly tithe which everyone gives to God though the priests , but there is another tithes that is shared with the poor,priests ,and strangers , this is every three years. It is different from the normal tithe.

Any scriptures to back what you just said? I pasted a part of the bible from Deut 14 to make it easy for everyone. If you say that there are different types of tithe ( I have never heard this preached in the church) then show me some scriptures so that I can read and follow your line of thought.

Something else occurred to me. I have seen many people in NL bashing anyone that seem to have a dissenting opinion without even being patient enough to hear the person out. The Berean Christians were praised in the new testament because they went home to search the scriptures to see if what they were told in church was according to the scriptures. That is why I don't want any blind assertion with no backing scriptures. If you want other Christians to learn, don't shut down the argument because of what you pastor told you. Lets do what the bible says.

Tensor,
do you have any reference for all you have been saying on this thread? Reference in terms of solid data, website or verifiable information so that people can read and see these opportunities that only you seem to be able to see. If you do, please paste the link so that I can read it and so that others will read it to see the various opportunities that you have been talking about and methods of remaining in the UK "if you are determined" apart from the unorthodox methods I mentioned above.

@Debosky,
The same applies to you. Please tell me how many Nigerian graduates from UK universities are on a Tier 2 visa? Its a simple question. And what is the percentage compared to the total number of graduates.

@Tensor,
Please give a valid suggestion as to how people who have come to the end of their Post study work visa can change to a work permit and not
----Go back to a student visa.
----Marry an EU national.
----Seek Asylum.
----Become an illegal immigrant.

If you want to go down the Tier 2 route, please show us all where you got the info as to how many grads are being sponsored and the percentage of the total that they constitute.

Remember that this is in reference to what you said as per "you will settle in the UK if you are determined".

When you do reply, please don't scream loud as that will not win any argument. Just paste facts from the internet so that others will see your point of view.

Xgel,
I wanted a constructive discussion and not a blind assertion. Please open your bible to Deuteronomy 14:22-29, study it to show yourself approved, a work man rightly dividing the word of truth. Then come back and make a more constructive comment.

You will scarcely hear this part of the scripture read in the church when tithing is being talked about. Its just a food for thought and I will like the spiritually enlightened members of this forum to throw more light on this topic.

Are we meant to eat our tithe and give some ( I repeat, give some) to our priest as this scripture is suggesting?

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy%2014:22-29&version=NIV

Deuteronomy 14:22-29 (New International Version, ©2010)

Tithes

22 Be sure to set aside a tenth of all that your fields produce each year. 23 Eat the tithe of your grain, new wine and olive oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the presence of the LORD your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name, so that you may learn to revere the LORD your God always. 24 But if that place is too distant and you have been blessed by the LORD your God and cannot carry your tithe (because the place where the LORD will choose to put his Name is so far away), 25 then exchange your tithe for silver, and take the silver with you and go to the place the LORD your God will choose. 26 Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice. 27 And do not neglect the Levites living in your towns, for they have no allotment or inheritance of their own.
28 At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year’s produce and store it in your towns, 29 so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the foreigners, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied, and so that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hands.



I will like a mature debate on this topic and not name calling so that people will learn from this thread.

tensor777:
And lets face it if someone for whatever reason is DETERMINED to settle in England after his studies he will definitely find a way to do so. I am still baffled  though why some people here, who are themselves in England, feel that it is necessary to warn others who may be total strangers not to come here.

Unless they hope to become illegal immigrants after their study because if no company or organization offers them a Tier 2 sponsorship (the chances of this happening is almost zero) they will either have to leave the country after their post study work runs out (if they don't cancel it by April) or start hiding around and eventually tell lies to seek asylum or look for an EU girl to marry to get their kpali.

My guy (Tensor), stop deceiving people here. For all I know, you might even be an embassy official or school sales rep or even an immigration adviser, who is scared that the money that you make from poor people from "developing" countries will soon go away when people eventually learn that you have been hiding a big trap behind your useless student visa!!!

But his actions yesterday was much like Kaita. Kick a player behind you and the ball is not in contention and you know that there are cameras everywhere. That is dumb.

A referendum will be a good idea but we need to be able to sit round a table to discuss this first of all,

Is this a 9ja trait or what? I just watched Victor Obinna of West Ham United kick a Birmingham player in their carling cup match for no just cause and earned a well deserved red card for his troubles, Reminded me of Kaita in the world cup,

Is this a 9ja thing or what.

I see everyone's point here and I know that many questions will be answered come April when they will give a true picture of events. Till then, we just have to keep our fingers crossed.

This thread should not discourage anyone if they intend to come to the UK to study and then go back home when they graduate especially if they are under sponsorship. It is just meant to inform the great majority of folks who intend to settle after their studies so that they will know what is on ground before they arrive here and also to give them a forum to ask any questions so that the folks on ground will be able to point them in the right direction.

What does this post mean?

juzme:
@Kidonig you dont need to use all your energy trying to convince Tensor777. I think this posting is quite clear. Noone is telling anyone not to come to UK rather it is a kind of warning or advice on the majority who think UK is still a place you can make good money while living as a student. By the way, Noone also is saying that Education is not very important especially when you obtain it from the western countries.
And for someone to tell us here that it is easy to find a part time job these days in Uk, the person is not telling us the truth. I have friends for the past one year they dont have job and many of them have finished their Masters and some of them switch to other courses while some could not switch because of financial problem. I dont want to generalize but most people I have seen has this problem. Of course there are people doing well in UK and those people have established long time ago. I think we are talking about PROSPECTIVE STUDENTs who may have high expectation from UK. Sure, if you just want to acquire education and then think of what do next then you can always choose any country of your choice.
Again, nobody is comparing UK with Nigeria. Noone is saying that UK education is of low standard here. We are talking about economic gain during and after your study.
Neverthless, there are people who could be very lucky in life. So if you are the kind of person who believe in luck then you dont need to take any advice from here.

Simples!!! I rest my case because you have summarized my point quite eloquently,

Tensor777,
It wouldn't surprise me if you are an immigration or education advisor. You have never substantiated even one word in all you have been posting here.

debosky:
Even with all the horror stories of people dying while trying to reach Europe via the Sahara, people still embark on that life threatening journey, so the restrictions are unlikely to deter highly determined Nigerians from trying.

Very funny, ha ha ha ha ha,

@ Debosky

I quite agree with you entirely. There are the few people who will finish and get a Tier 2 sponsorship. I have said it time and again that I do not wish to discourage anyone but to provide information that I think is kept away from people until they set foot here.

Really, if your sole intent is to come to the UK and study and then explore your options here hoping to go back if nothing comes out of it, then it is not a bad idea. At least, you have an exit strategy. I am primarily talking to people who are planning to come here using education as the means and then to settle afterwards which is what many Nigerians have done or are intending to do. Such people do not know the events on the ground and will commit a lot of resources only to find out mid-way that they have made a mistake.

@ Debosky

Click the link below to go to the point based calculator. It will tell you precisely how much you need to qualify based on your circumstance.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/pointscalculator

I was working part-time as a student and was making almost £1,000 a week but I am sure you will find this difficult to believe. It depends on your profession. Again the tax threshold mentioned is not peculiar to students alone. It is what obtains for every UK resident.

Well that is besides the point. I think it is a bit unfair to say that most students don't find it difficult to find a job once they are here. I begin to wonder if it is immigration/education consultant for UK schools that is saying this. It is really not true.

Back to topic. If you think it is worth the stress for people to come to the UK to study from Nigeria (knowing that most of us who come here usually stay back) in this current climate, please provide hard and independently verifiable facts so that people reading this thread will be better informed. No one will gain anything when you make statements that are unsubstantiated.

I still await any question from any prospective student hoping to study in the UK.

Tensor,
Watch the tone of my statement and see that there is no guile in it. All the comments made here are supported by a link so that people can read and educate themselves more and also so as to lend more credence to what the person is saying. When you say that there is a lot of options available, please kindly paste a link so that people who don't have a lot of options now and are regretting ever coming to the UK, will learn from you and explore those options.

No one, I repeat, no one is saying don't come to the UK. We are all trying to give people who use this forum enough information so that when they eventually arrive here, they will know what they are up against.

The British Govt sees Commonwealth countries as a huge source of revenue to them. They see places like Nigeria and India as subservient territories that they can exploit. That is why they encourage people to come to the UK to study and make them pay what an average EU citizen cannot afford and then put laws in place to chase them back after collecting their money.

I repeat as I have said before. If your sole intention to come here is to study and go back home immediately(and you have a guaranteed flow of cash from 9ja through out your studies), then its no problem at all. But if by chance you want to stay a minute longer after you graduate (which is what most 9ja students will do) you may be in for a surprise.

Rather than point accusing fingers at me for this thread, ask legitimate questions and I will try to explain or someone else in the thread will explain or even provide a link that will answer your questions.

debosky:
@ kidonig

Where is the requirement for £50,000 stated? Can you provide a link?

Debosky, please click the link that the other guy just pasted or go to the point calculator in the UKBA website to have a good read. The bad thing now though is that they have permanently suspended Tier 1 General visas from outside the UK. See this link: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/workingintheuk/tier1/general/

So even if you wanted to apply from outside the UK, you will not be able to do that now. You can only come in on the Tier 2 visa which will be limited based on the quota to 20,700 per annum.

size12:
so you studied in the UK, currently working and living in the UK and you do not want others to come as well and be like you 


so you are still in the UK. yet you are discouraging others from coming? 

Why do you think that your coming to the UK will affect anything I do? Its a big country and you will rarely have time to say hi to your close friends even over the phone. When I came here, it was relatively easier to get the Tier 1 as the stringent conditions now in place were not there. I only needed to have earned £25,000 in the last tax year to qualify. Now, if you look at their criteria as I pasted in the link above, you will see that even if you are in the UK and are able to apply before April, 2011, it will be though to make the amount of money they are asking you to make.

So again, I will the happiest person if a lot of 9ja folks fall in here but I am just warning people who do not have enough information and are being deceived by smooth talking education sales reps who come to 9ja and try to use their British accent to fool unsuspecting and naive Nigerians to come here for studies.

I am still open to more questions if you doubt anything I have written here.

Yeah. I was entertaining the thought of going home during my studies but the goings-on in Nigeria has pushed that thought away.

If you are really hoping to go back as soon as you finish and I repeat, as soon as you finish and if you have saved enough to carry you through your programme, then you don't have anything to worry about. But if you are planning to stay back for a second longer, I can assure you that you will be disappointed and will remember this thread then.

I know many people who have finished their masters and their PSW who are not able to meet the £50,000 that is required for HSMP and have now realised that they have wasted their time in this stupid place and have lost all their links in 9ja while they were here.

I will be happy to answer any questions from anyone on this matter.

Meanwhile, good luck my friend.

I am happy to see the debate this issue has sparked up so far. I will be helpful to people intending to come to the UK if people who are already on ground will give them the info to help them make an informed choice.

koksy:
@poster, What about the Tier 2 Visa, is this going to change as well?

Yes. They are proposing a 20,700 annual limit on Tier 2 visas and they want to break the link between Tier 2 and Indefinite leave to remain but it is not cleat so far, how they plan to do this. They also will not give visas lasting 1 or more years to Tier 2 people if their annual salary is not up to 40, 000 pounds.

There is a lot more to come by April but I have just included this link to give you more info. Just click the link and it will take you to the UK immigration website. Cheers

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/newsfragments/35-t1-t2-annual-limits

TitanMoon:
Coming to the UK to study does not mean you should automatically have the right to settle permantely. Britain has a right to control immigration to its shores. If you don't like it then don't go to Britain, no-one is forcing you to go.

Hello my friend, We were living peacefully in Africa before we were invaded and taken in droves to different parts of the world including the UK. They suddenly decided that they have had enough of us and want us to be kept in darkness in Africa and hence maintain the neo-colonialism as is in place now.

Well that is besides the point. The aim of this post is to warn people who intend to come to the UK that if they are not planning to go back home immediately and I repeat, immediately after their studies, then killing themselves to come here is a very bad idea.

joxiri:
Poster
can you please provide the link where it says the psw tier 1 scheme will be cancelled
so far theresa May has not mentioned anything about the psw
that visa still remains in place as far as I am aware because it is beneficial for the uk however much they get some good talent from there

Don't kid yourself about them benefiting from good talent. You and I know that most people who school here contribute immensely to the country but we are the easy targets that will help win elections. They always say the non-EU people is the problem and that is why all this law changes every April.

The proposal is that they will make it virtually impossible to come here and work and to settle after your studies. I know that those on the verge of coming here will not understand but I just want to prepare your mind.

I have been meaning to write this post for sometime now. First of all, I am living in the UK now having studied here and I have seen the mentality that the British Govt have been having over non-EU citizens living here. You will not know what you are stepping into until you arrive here.

First of all, I have seen the enthusiasm with which people in this forum are talking about coming here and my advice will be to channel that energy towards going to Canada to study as it pays you better on the long run.

Now let me explain myself. The school fees that they ask you to pay so you can study in this God forsaken country cannot be afforded by the home students here. It was just for the prospect of paying just £9000 that their students were burning everywhere in London. The cost of schooling in Canada is even far cheaper and you will be surprised at how easy it is to get their visa if you put in the same effort as you will 4 the UK. The UK is only a good place to come if you want to study and go back home immediately after your studies. If you intend to stay for a while or even to settle here, you not be able to do that from next year.

The new Govt here want to reduce the number of hours you can work as a student to 10 hours from the current 20 hours and they are planning to make it difficult for those students who are married to come here by putting a law banning dependence from working and also by asking all dependants (this even includes British citizens coming here on settlement visa) to write an English exam.

It doesn't even end there. They will be cancelling the Tier 1 post study work visa that gives you 2 years to get a job here after your studies. In addition to that, the Tory Govt is also cancelling the Tier 1 general Visa totally from April, 2011. This will mean that if no company or establishment is willing to employ you and pay you up to £40,000 , you will have to leave the UK immediately after your studies.

Now, what does the Govt stand to gain? They want people from servitude developing countries like 9ja to come and pay money into their system for a short period and then chase them back when they finish.

Even the way it is now, it is difficult to get the Tier 1 General visa because you need to earn a crazy £50,000 to qualify.

My final advice, pls channel your efforts towards Canada or maybe the US. In Canada, you will be able to apply for Federal Skilled Permanent residence when you graduate. If your intention is to study and then go back home and you are from an affluent environment, then the UK may be the place for you.

I will be happy to answer any questions arising from the above comments.

Na wa oo

What is the point of this post? The video makes no sense even,

I just heard it from Cyril Stober on NTA,