₦airaland Forum

Nelidee:
This is where you would have ended the discussion. Very beautiful write-up. You psychoanalysed the guy and as for the bolded, 100% fact. The good news is God is pulling those that belong to him out of that masonic organisation.

MaxInDHouse:
There's no need to ignore because i know you are not a worshiper of my own God so continue with your fellow worshipers.

Thanks for your time!

MaxInDHouse:
I know you don't have anything to say because all what makes you think you're a Christian is the conventional thought that once you're attending a religious service with those claiming Christians.

Well if you must know you're not a Christian until you can prove that the first century Jewish carpenter was truly the son of God not just by quoting word for word as written in the book you're carrying but by thorough explanation which can reach the heart of your listener. That's why most people claiming they are Christians apart from Jehovah's Witnesses are deceiving themselves!

MaxInDHouse:
But do you believe that a first century Jewish carpenter of about 33 years is the one and only man through whom people of all nations must be saved?

If so why not poise to think and pity those who believe this?

Because the young man only lived some 2,000 years ago and all you know about him is what was written in a book you're carrying up and down.

So what made you believe that but doubt what i just told you?

MaxInDHouse:
JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES ORGANIZATION!

Prosper1912:
No problem

MaxInDHouse:
Just as nobody can gain salvation except through Jesus but some of Jesus' disciples like Judas Iscariot lost their chances the same still applies today [b]there's only one organization through which we can gain salvation today [/b]but it's not all those attending our meetings will be saved.

Thank you!

Prosper1912:
If u say that part of his reply is false,can u pls prove it.

Prosper1912:
In Luke chapter 16, Jesus describes two men who experience drastic changes in their circumstances.

Here is a summary of the story Jesus told:
A rich man lived in luxury. A beggar named Lazarus was placed at the rich man’s gate; he hoped to be given any food that dropped from the rich man’s table. In time, Lazarus died, and angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. In the story, both men are portrayed as conscious after death. The dead rich man was being tormented by a blazing fire and asked Abraham to send Lazarus to cool his tongue with a drop of water from Lazarus’ finger. Abraham denied the rich man’s request and said that both men had now experienced a complete reversal of their circumstances and that a great chasm had been formed between the two that could not be crossed.

The question now is that DID THIS STORY REALLY HAPPEN
No. This is a parable that Jesus related in order to teach a lesson. The fact that this is a parable is acknowledged by scholars. For example, a subheading in the 1912 edition of Luther’s Bible states that this is a parable. And the Catholic Jerusalem Bible, in a footnote, states that this is a “parable in story form without reference to any historical personage.”

Was Jesus teaching lessons about life after death? Did he mean that some people suffer in a hellfire when they die and that Abraham and Lazarus were in heaven? Several facts show that this could not be the case.

For example:

If the rich man were in a literal place of burning torment, would not the fire evaporate the water on Lazarus’ fingertip?

Even if it were not evaporated, would a single drop of water bring the rich man lasting relief from his suffering in a literal fire?

How could Abraham be alive in heaven, since Jesus clearly stated that up to the time Jesus related the parable, no one had gone to heaven?—John 3:13.

DOES This STORY SUPPORT THE DOCTRINE OF HELLFIRE?

No. Although this is not a literal story, some argue that it symbolizes the idea that good people go to heaven and bad people are tormented in hellfire. a

Is that conclusion reasonable? No.

The teaching of hellfire does not fit in with what the Bible says about the condition of the dead. For example, it does not say that all good people who die experience bliss in heaven or that bad people are tortured in hellfire. Rather, the Bible clearly states: “The living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all.”—Ecclesiastes 9:5.

Now WHAT IS THE MEANING OF THE STORY OF THE RICH MAN AND LAZARUS?
The story shows that two groups of people were about to experience a great change in circumstances.

The rich man evidently symbolized the Jewish religious leaders, “who were money lovers.” (Luke 16:14) They listened as Jesus spoke, but they opposed his message. These religious leaders looked down on the common people.—John 7:49.

Lazarus symbolized the common people who accepted Jesus’ message and who were despised by the Jewish religious leaders.

The change in circumstances was drastic for both groups.

The Jewish religious leaders thought that they enjoyed God’s favor. But they experienced death, as it were, when God rejected them and their form of worship because they did not accept Jesus’ message. And they were tormented by the message that Jesus and his followers preached.—Matthew 23:29, 30; Acts 5:29-33.

The common people—who had long been neglected by their religious leaders—were now experiencing favor. Many accepted the Scriptural message that Jesus taught and benefited from it. They now had the opportunity to enjoy God’s favor eternally.—John 17:3.

MaxInDHouse:
The truth of the matter is that if many should know that eternal suffering in a fairy HellFire is a lie all the churches will be empty next Sunday except the Kingdom Halls of Jehovah's Witnesses. Most people are only scared of the HellFire stuff they don't really have any faith in God but due to their fear for the unknown they attend church services not for the love of God!

Prosper1912:
In Luke chapter 16, Jesus describes two men who experience drastic changes in their circumstances.

Here is a summary of the story Jesus told:
A rich man lived in luxury. A beggar named Lazarus was placed at the rich man’s gate; he hoped to be given any food that dropped from the rich man’s table. In time, Lazarus died, and angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. In the story, both men are portrayed as conscious after death. The dead rich man was being tormented by a blazing fire and asked Abraham to send Lazarus to cool his tongue with a drop of water from Lazarus’ finger. Abraham denied the rich man’s request and said that both men had now experienced a complete reversal of their circumstances and that a great chasm had been formed between the two that could not be crossed.

The question now is that DID THIS STORY REALLY HAPPEN
No. This is a parable that Jesus related in order to teach a lesson. The fact that this is a parable is acknowledged by scholars. For example, a subheading in the 1912 edition of Luther’s Bible states that this is a parable. And the Catholic Jerusalem Bible, in a footnote, states that this is a “parable in story form without reference to any historical personage.”

Was Jesus teaching lessons about life after death? Did he mean that some people suffer in a hellfire when they die and that Abraham and Lazarus were in heaven? Several facts show that this could not be the case.

For example:

If the rich man were in a literal place of burning torment, would not the fire evaporate the water on Lazarus’ fingertip?

Even if it were not evaporated, would a single drop of water bring the rich man lasting relief from his suffering in a literal fire?

How could Abraham be alive in heaven, since Jesus clearly stated that up to the time Jesus related the parable, no one had gone to heaven?—John 3:13.

DOES This STORY SUPPORT THE DOCTRINE OF HELLFIRE?

No. Although this is not a literal story, some argue that it symbolizes the idea that good people go to heaven and bad people are tormented in hellfire. a

Is that conclusion reasonable? No.

The teaching of hellfire does not fit in with what the Bible says about the condition of the dead. For example, it does not say that all good people who die experience bliss in heaven or that bad people are tortured in hellfire. Rather, the Bible clearly states: “The living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all.”—Ecclesiastes 9:5.

Now WHAT IS THE MEANING OF THE STORY OF THE RICH MAN AND LAZARUS?
The story shows that two groups of people were about to experience a great change in circumstances.

The rich man evidently symbolized the Jewish religious leaders, “who were money lovers.” (Luke 16:14) They listened as Jesus spoke, but they opposed his message. These religious leaders looked down on the common people.—John 7:49.

Lazarus symbolized the common people who accepted Jesus’ message and who were despised by the Jewish religious leaders.

The change in circumstances was drastic for both groups.

The Jewish religious leaders thought that they enjoyed God’s favor. But they experienced death, as it were, when God rejected them and their form of worship because they did not accept Jesus’ message. And they were tormented by the message that Jesus and his followers preached.—Matthew 23:29, 30; Acts 5:29-33.

The common people—who had long been neglected by their religious leaders—were now experiencing favor. Many accepted the Scriptural message that Jesus taught and benefited from it. They now had the opportunity to enjoy God’s favor eternally.—John 17:3.

Dtruthspeaker:
Forgiveness comes before Judgement and not after judgement.

Adam should have acknowledged his wrongdoing rather than defend it nor make it worse by blaming God, for it.

He used his own hands and mouth to destroy himself.

Prosper1912:
When Jesus Christ was on earth e made use of parables. And if u may agree will me, all the parable that Jesus use as an illustration while e was on earth doesn't have literal interpretation, rather e word from the parable has a symbolic meaning.

Prosper1912:
Thank you I would like to contribute concerning the richman and Lazarus.

Prosper1912:
Pls Would you guys mind if I come in to the discussion.

Wilgrea7:
Compliments of the season



Wrong. Your analogy fails here, when you consider the fact that according to your bible, majority of the people who exist are bound to enter hell. Remember the "narrow is the way" verse.

Taking your road-crossing analogy, it would be similar to a scenario where you knew that regardless of how many people you tried to teach to cross, the vast majority of them would eventually end up in an accident. And despite knowing this fact, you still continue to drag people to the side of the road, and telling them to cross.

When you bring a child into the world, their journey to either salvation, or damnation begins. Just as when someone is told to cross, their journey to the other side of the road begins, as well as the possibility of an accident.

If you already know that the majority of people who are born would eventually end up in eternal torment, why bring them into existence in the first place?



Reducing the number from 6 to 3 doesn't answer the question I asked. I didn't ask why people had more children. I asked why people, specifically Christians, choose to continue to have children, knowing the fate that awaits the majority of the population?

PoliteActivist:
A very good morning to you sir. No, you were not rude yesterday, neither was I. And you did give the same answer about Lazarus as you gave today - basically that the story is not truthful about how things will be (how you determined this and why a lie would be used is still a mystery).

Also read the two statements above. They are both from you sir. Do you see the contradiction?

So sir, it would seem you are twisting words and inventing new meanings just to fit into a teaching that was put into your head, rather than accepting that the teaching is not biblical.

As for JW, since I've already said unequivocally that you are one (it was not a question), all you had to do was say yes, showing it's nothing to be ashamed of. That's the straightforward, honest thing to do. Instead of a long round about as to wether it matters or not.
Do have a beautiful day sir and may God bless you and your household.

PoliteActivist:
Ok, how about these below. They are definitely not parables.
I think it matters my faith, so you know where I'm comming from and my basic beliefs. Example, as JW I know right away you don't believe in Trinity

PoliteActivist:
So you agree with Lazarus story of eternal.punishment?

Well, does it matter if I am a moslem or not?

PoliteActivist:
Same to you sir. Well, something convinced St. Paul. Would such a vision convince you? Also you didn't address the story.
BTW you are JW

PoliteActivist:
Sooo, where does the story of Lazarus fit in your thesis.

Also, is there ANYTHING that can convince you that all you've been taught, all you believe is wrong? What would that be?