Hotice085: But you told us how big two States are in Nigeria using the same map you called Racist? Seems your cheap Siberian weed don finish
Are you telling us the entire North Africa use to be Africans? Damn, you really do smoke SHIT! So, the Phoenicians, Carthageans,Berbers are not indigenous to those Areas? The Coptic Egyptians and the Ethiopian Church do you have any idea how long they have been relating before the coming of the Arabs? Men you must be a Rasterferian with all those Babylon and Jerusalem rants, plz go eazy on the ganja you smoke
Slavery, Colonization, Imperialism are these not all the same in different context base on time? Only 20years rule of Ethiopia with no history of slavery yet they are still backward like your blackass and you don't think something is wrong
Saudis used to be BLACK, then Abraham Jacob and Adam must be same. Abeg this weed you smoke were they not smoking it back then. If the Europeans could chase blacks from Saudi Arabia and the entire north Africa to where you say they are, then I put it to you that to describe how useless black were and is can never be imagined We had USSR then CIS now it is called Russia Federation, while America has grown in influence and control in size your lord and Saviour that you are banking on has shrunk in size over the years what we now await is the final decimation of it in just a couple of months from now
I can see your brain has been so damaged by the west such that it has affected you down to your ancestors, you blame the west for your misery and you aren't ashamed that you so called ancestors that once lived as far as Saudi Arabia till this moment are still in lamentation mode.
Why couldn't they take down Cuba, China, Iran, Mugabe? Saddam and Gaddafi were two very lousy hypocrites How many Shias did Saddam killed, how many Kurds did he used chemical weapon on? You think America just go into any nation like that, the shias and Kurds was enough enemy already America just wanted the right moment The same thing Gaddafi who killed many that were not of his tribe, the same people killed him America just need the time
Russia is next via Ukraine, you lots are just too dumb
If you think Russia China or North Korea would match the west or be victorious over the west in any war, you need continue smoking your cheap Russian weed for the next 500years
How did we get here? Just because I asked you to provide me the map you used in getting the sizes of the 2 Nigerian States you mentioned and we are here
You really do know how to smoke those cheap stuff
Lol. Illiterate! U know u just a western lickspittle And I can assure u, u in for big time shame wen Russia destroys America and all its European hegemony. 1. Upon all the fake google u went to consult all u cud come up with is weak and extremely ignorant arguments? 2. How can anyone say Russia is now small becos USSR broke up! Its same as saying Britain is now small because EU broke up! Was USSR a country or a union of countries? Russia is the largest country in this world! They have increased in size since USSR broke up. Stretching from Europe to Asia, across 7 different time zones. Be talking rubbish 2. With or without people like u, Africa will wake up and put behind her the grip of the neo colonialists. It took 22yrs of bitter struggle for Mao Zidong to wrest China out of the hand of imperialist west. It took a while for the Iranian and Cuban revolution to succeed. So why is an ignoramus like urself asking how about China Cuba Iran? How about dem? Their fight with the west is still ongoing. Ours is abt to begin. 3. I don’t understand wot u talking abt map? Which map did I get the two state from? What exactly does dat mean? Maps from the west are always flawed doesn’t mean I cudnt use dem or wot u mean? Let me show u an example by posting two map of the occupied territories in Ukraine by Russia. Maybe u will understand with ur dull mind that cannot tell d difference btw slavery and colonialism. 5. There is nothing else in ur reply that deserve response. U not a very bright person and I have nothing to learn from u. I only hope u cud open ur eyes and stop supporting powers that mean u poverty. Whatever u choose that’s ur business. U or the west can’t stop the truth. 6. These two maps are saying EXACTLY the same thing. But visuals in the second is a trick to minimize the rate of progress. It is therefore misleading
Hotice085: Honestly I have never seen any human or anything as dumb as you, a crab will talk do better than you. First you said Ukraine is bigger than Nigeria, you then use mago mago and introduce two States in Nigeria and their sizes but when I ask how you come about the sizes you de open ur rabbit teeth. Maps you called a scam you know fit prove
Instead just like that Mr intelligent cum geo politics man you are delving into realms your empty porous brain can't handle Who were the first set of slaves in Europe, you think it was Africans? The atrocities the Europeans committed on themselves ( Romans, Barbarians, Vikings,Gauls, down to the Inquisition) do you think Africans suffered up to 20% of it or did same to themselves? So according to you Ethiopia gain independence from Italy and England? Your lies just de get more and more abominable by the minutes, map u don't know na Ethiopia you wan know let any Ethiopian get you lying black ass
So Americans got their independence from your father, they were not slaves to the British but landlords or is it because they are Europeans you don't wanna use the world slaves?
Is it the Native Americans Asians Europeans Arabs where did slavery never existed in one form or the other but why are you still wailing like you are the only up till this moment? You are a disgrace to common sense
So you mean to tell me that the sons Abraham that Israel came out from are any different from the present day Saudi Arabians they too also came out from? Plz tell us how the Bible described the Ethiopian or why did Marian rise against Moses and his Ethiopian wife?
You are extremely dumb, ordinary map you don't know anything you are going into places and location you crab brain can't stand the heat. Spare me any history gibberish because my 12year old will school you from creation to Rights down the crab hole you crawled out from, your knowledge of history is pathetic
Now it is IMPERIALISM you want to blame, if India China South Korea Japan that was bombed can all turn their country around, if Dubai a desert can turn into what is now what stops you and your useless leaders from achieving same? Do they have 10heads and your useless leaders 1head? Up till now Africans are still blaming the west for all the problems and this one is here dancing Russian roulette with his life
They gave you preconditions for independenc they didn't do same for others, your and your leaders the inferiority complex that runs in your DNA is till the end of humanity
Don't take your destiny into hands be waitings for RUSSIA that has never impacted on the lives of her citizens or mankind to come and save you
Since I born I never see slave like this whalahi tahlia, POOtin asslickers..SPITS
Lol Learner forming wise man! U are a good example of a slave that love his chains! 1. I am not the one who told u Russia occupies Ukrainian space bigger than Nigeria. If u could not notice dat, how can u notice anything else good in dis life? Ur blindness is therefore understandable 2. U simply don’t know the difference btw SLAVERY and COLONIALISM. U don’t know. Period. All ur talk about inquisition Is sheer STUPID. Wot atrocities Europe committed on themselves greater than d ones committed on Africans? Let’s discuss just one example. Just one. Look at most North Africa countries EGYPT MOROCCO ALGERIA etc are white skin! How do u think it happened? Subjugation and Europeanization of a whole continent and you there talking RUBBISH? 3. Europeans ruled Ethiopia for 20yrs! That shud mean Ethiopians were slaves of Europeans according to ur fish brain? Americans were slaves to British and manner of stupidity u and ur kind sprout to justify enslaving a continent for 1,600 yrs! Its on paralleled, no example anywhere else in this world for it. 4. The Saudis used to be blacks! Alexander The Hellen conquered Palestine and ruled over it 600yrs. That’s how Greeko-Arabians came about. White skin Arabs. In the Bible, white skin was associated with LEPROSY. They weren’t white skinned! U fool! 5. Talking about Asians? Am glad to let u know, that the first wave of reformation to break the hold of western IMPERIALISM came from RUSSIA! 1914 communist revolution! It spread to China, Vietnam of communism , North Korea etc. so ur so called Japan, South Korea and all the western lackeys in d region are merely propped states to buffer the spread of communism. Its called wealth transfer, where they enjoy artificial prosperity As a form of economic warfare on communists neighbors, cos imperialism knew communism is a threat. That why the Vietnam war was fought. 6. Any IDIOT on the street can say TAKE UR DESTINY INTO UR HANDS. Its easy to say. Doing it is d issue. Those who tried like Saddam Hussein, like Gaddafi were slaughtered like chickens as slaves like u applauded. Too blind to see thru all the lies of the imperialists. 7. As it happens, the next transformation for the world, seems destined to come yet again from Russia! The defeat of the dollar, the defeat of unilateralism, the defeat of exceptionalism, European doctrine of domination and world control has been fiercely challenged by Russia for 7months now. Should they win the west will be finished. And it will be good riddance to bad rubbish and bye bye to yeye boyfriend
........UR DEATH’S NOTIN BUT A HEART BEAT AWAY OFF........ AM 23 NEVER WILL I LIVE TO SEE 24...... BEING SPENDING MOST OUR LIVES LIVING IN THE GANGSTER’s PARADISE.
Hotice085: The Jews were slaves in Egypt, where are they now? America were slaves of the British who were slaves of Romans but where are they now? The Irish were slaves and suffered greatly from the British, where are they now? India,.China and many Asian countries were slaves of the British where are they now? Ethiopia never had any master how far with them? As at independence Nigeria was far ahead than India, South Korea China and many European nation how far with Nigeria?
Ordinary to refine crude oil we can't or pay ASUU you blame the west and slavery, do you know the the Atrocities the Ros committed against the non Ros ethnic groups for hundreds of years? Do you know what is Rosification? Every other people have grown their economy and country, POOtin asslickers are still wailing how Timbuktu used to be great and how the west isn't making publicity for Africans
Continue to wait, the west will come and change your diapers for you and pamper you to greatness.
I thought you were a little bit intelligent than the other nuisance not knowing you are far dumber Ijebu gari is way smarter and intelligent than you, continue your lamentation and wailing of how the west can't make your and your leaders take your destiny into your hands
TFU over and over again
*Quick titbits* Even America made China to be what she is today, take a bow for the west don't take you destiny into your hands be looking for who to blame while crying like kunta kunte
LoL America slaves to British? U don’t even know wot slavery is! In fish brain, u believe Irish were slaves to British YET Ethiopians had no masters? But the Italians were there for 6yrs and the British for 14yrs! So why didn’t u say Ethiopians were slave of Italian-British U are dull A-swear! Nigeria at independence was ahead of China India? Wot is ur yardstick? The obvious was Naira-Dollars? SMH Israel were slaves. But was just for 400yrs! 400yrs After they left Egypt, they have completely disappeared Don’t mistake ISRAELITES for ISRAELIS! Those guys in Israel right now are WHITE EUROPEANS! They not even MALATOS As u find in North Africa. They couldn’t survive Greek occupation, Roman occupation and Turkish. Some of them even ran back to Africa. Aksum, Ethiopia, even South Africa. Do u know how many European occupiers sized Africa? The slave trade lasted approximately 1,600yrs! Wow The rest understood the resilience of the African. I am not saying the Russians do not have a dark past, they have not sought to subjugate the world in perpetual servitude. Can u even imagine, that the preconditions to ur so called INDEPENDENCE is that WE WILL NOT BE SELF SUFFICIENT IN FOOD PRODUCTION?? This is the idea of ur royal majesty the dead queen Am sure u cry for her? Why wouldn’t you question Timbuktu! Why wouldn’t you think refineries not working is because we are lazy? As u take a bow for America, just know they are the reason why u cannever be free from debts! That’s why u can’t pay ASUU. U only independent on paper. If Russia succeeds in defeating IMPERIALISM of the west. It will give us a breath of fresh air
Goddson: . What’s your email/ number so I can send you a soft copy…. Normally the book is worth 100$ and over on Amazon and other bookstores but I ll give you for free.
May God bless u really good. I am indeed very grateful. krismassoft@gmail.com Thanks so much
English that u speak is the west Internet you are using is the west YouTube you are referencing is the west
Ordinary to tell me whether na west Map or not, you vanished like those cowards Russian soldiers? You Goddson that one legged man running to Kazakhstan called DerrickzB and all POOtins asslickers are the greatest slave of the west
LOL Diarrhea of the mouth Spit hemorrhage Quick-ejaculation of the mouth Nairaland is my best comic relief, it’s full of so much clowns like urself. First the video u quoted was from UNSC 77 ministers conference inwhich, a “WEST” lady was more concerned over the plight of Libyans than lickspittle like urself who happen to be African! He didn’t even comment on d video b4 launching into a useless slavish narrative of all of whiteman’s lies about been behind every invention. It was black men like u, who taught me that Mango Park discovered the root of d Niger. Their language in my mouth is the eternal testimony against them as slave taskmasters who trampled on my culture, language and freedom for 600yrs. Africans started the first learning centers and libraries in Fez and Timbuktu even b4 the while man knew how to read and write. They stole everything away from us. Internet, telephony electronics, aviation, medcine, music, art, name it. The role the black man played to advance these fields were largely unreported. F u and ur west.
Plz close those dirty rat teeth of yours and use whatever map and tell us how those 4 regions are bigger than Nigeria
I know u don't tell LIES like Mr geo politics
Idiot! Occupied regions in Ukraine is just those 4regions? Nice one How about some part of Khakhiv before the Eskil river? How about Crimea? How about some part of Bakmut? They belong to Russia right? Good, so rest, cos ur so called Nigeria is not even that big
Goddson: Kudos to nairaland for giving you the opportunity and platform to be an e-warrior, I won’t waste my time with a brainwashed zombie like you. Hopefully if you can afford the book below, it will help you a lot from your psychological bondage.
Ma broda. Don’t mind these western lickspittles on dis Nairaland land. They don’t understand wot Russia is fighting. They don’t know that their beloved west is why their country will never be free from debts. Pls how can I get dis ur book?
Hotice085: So you got no map but the four regions are bigger than Nigeria? Continue disguising your low IQ with those emoijis
I see. Take note the two biggest state in Nigeria is Niger State 76,000 sqkm and Borno state 71 sqkm. Russia is occupying in Ukraine more than Niger state and Borno state put together. That’s very much Nigeria, if u catch my meaning
Folks like u, little know, u are supporting colonial masters that bought and sold u as slave for 500yrs and stopped the trade cos they wanted to come and colonize u at home and need ur labour at home and not abroad anymore, for 100yrs! Look at wot they did in Libya. Watch it here
Hotice085: OK Mr non Racist that never divided the world along the line of list but according to how sweet innocent and sincere POOtin is, plz give us the Russian map telling us how big Nigeria, Ukraine and Russia is?
Putin map will be out soon, wen Donbas, Kherson, Zaporizhazhia returns to its ORIGINAL GEOGRAPHIC LOCATION. And nothing u or NATO can do abt it
asanausana91: do you know that Russia foreign minister even comments on that day
Wot say he? Russia targeted trains carrying NATO weapons. But wen Zelensky and NATO started civilian lies, Russia decided to destroy rail lines instead. That’s all. It is Ukraine that keeps shelling Donbas, without any appreciable military infrastructure. Imagine Ukraine shelling Ukraine
Hotice085: When I saw your first comments I knew instantly you are one of those lying machines from POOtin
Mr Intellectual that discusses only intelligent discourse and an expert in geo politicis Tell me and the entire world how come those four regions are bigger than Nigeria? How big is Ukraine compare to Nigeria?
We must have this intelligent and intellectual discourse of this 3 geo political entities I put it to you that all your post are filled with LIES
Maps are lies, no wonder Ukrainians were bombing your lots like rats
I can assure u the maps are completely FAKE. For one, the map of Africa is upside-down The Europeans Choose to call the leg region NORTH POLE. Also, the maps extremely exaggerates the land masses up north, while shrinking Africa and southern American continents. The maps are racist. Also, a few people sat down and divided the world along the lines of their lust and greed
I said it! From CNN! If I told u the clip CNN played abt people being forcibly dragged into mobilization in Russia wasn’t an event dat happened dis year and had nothing to do with mobilization will u believe? Stop letting this peeps play on ur intelligence
asanausana91: what of the civilians that were killed in a Train station? What of those that were attack in a church, shopping centre,hospitals etc
Why are u talking as if u were a witness?? You quoting western media and I have just showed to u that they are bastard liars! But u will rather put your faith in dem and swallow everything they tell u. So tell me, why is it dat CNN never report Russia killing Ukrainian soldiers? Why too do CNN never report Ukrainian soldiers killing Russian civilians? Its always Russians killing Ukrainian civilians while Ukrainians are killing Russian soldiers. No be juju be dat?
asanausana91: another unchained dog is barking. Why not go to Russia and support the murderer?
The murderer? Talking abt the murderer, do u notice how quiet Ukraine has been on the bodies of CIVILIANS purportedly exhumed in Izumi? Russia quickly showed that the bodies were those of the 440 Ukrainian soldiers who died in battle against Russia, who the Ukrainians abandoned on the battlefields of Izyum Seryoga Sova was exhumed The Ukrainian soldier still had on his tattoos and hand band Continue to spread fake news
Russians have tolerated Putin for 22 years, it's time to oust him from power and save our planet earth from the possibility of nuclear war, he's unhinged and dangerous.
We're faced with a drowning and losing Putin that doesn't want to lose this war, the land-grabber must be stopped.
He first called his invasion of Ukraine a special military operation for the demilitarisation and denazification of Ukraine, he's now conducting a sham referendum to incorporate those illegally occupied regions into Russia
Look at the pictures below, this is Georgia in 2008 when Russia invaded it, Russians are running back to the same country 14 years after
This story is fake. Half of the footages u see on TV stations like CNN BBC Aljazeera on forced Russian mobilization, didn’t happen this year atall. That there is franzied attempt to seek public sympathy via lack-scale fake news is nothing short of BEWITCHMENT. Where are the footages of Russians demonstrating in support of the RESERVISTS MOBILIZATION?? U won’t see that on Nairaland Putin is doing the work of God. The least u can do is pray for his victory against the colonial slave master in the west and not aid them in peddling stale lies against Russia’s SMO in Ukraine
So all of a sudden ATIKUlated has been forgotten ATIKUlated is any politician that be described as OLULE in presidential elections for atleast 4 major times.
While OLULE is any politician that fail in his quest to win presidential elections several times
emmaodet: No sir. Interest rate and inflation goes in opposite directions or let’s say inversely proportional. If there is inflation in a country - too many cash in the hand of people chasing fewer goods thereby driving the price of the goods up, cbn kicks in and raise interest rate to cub the menace. It is one of the tools used to push back local currency again dollar and also brings down the price of commodities. Examples - Let’s assume cbn drops interest rate to 0.5%(this is what they use in Europe and US), it means cbn prints out money and give it to commercial banks at 0.5% and they the commercial banks will add there own (let’s say another 0.5% to make it 1% total because interest rate is the major source of revenue for banks to pay salaries and expand) and the push out this money and borrow citizens. So in total, a Nigerian who goes to bank to borrow money to buy equipment for his business in china, the one that borrows to buy car,electronics at home, buy house on mortgage will only pay 1% per annum on the loan. Imagine taking a 10m loan to build a small 2 bedroom flat payable in 20 years. That is less than 12m in total to pay back in 20 years. It is attractive. Isn’t it? The joy of having your home and paying back just )00k per annum or 50k per month. That means a family where the hubby earns 100k and wife earns 50k can easily pay their house mortgage of 50k per month while still have 100k to feed the home. This is the reality with most people abroad. They live on loans. Cheap loans. So attractive and very easy to get into and you work your entire life servicing loans and praying you don’t lose your job or get laid off. Segun travels to america and within 6 months uploading his car and house. Meanwhile he will have to work next 20 years clearing it. Now In the cbn decides to raise interest rate from 0.5% to 15% just like nigeria. Banks will add theirs factoring in yearly inflation rate of 10-15%. They want to make money and profit too So first they won’t borrow you a long term loan because you will default and may not be able to pay back. Also by the time you pay back, the purchasing power of the initial money borrowed you would have eroded thereby literally leading to loss for them. So they give out loans as high as 25-30% interest because they need to make profit too. People will avoid taking loans which in turn will drop consumer goods demand. And since demand for commodities have dropped because people don’t have access to loans, producers don’t have a choice than to keep lowering their prices. Inflation has been curbed but such society hardly grows. Reason while you don’t see Nigerians taking loans to build houses or buy cars on a long term to ease their pressure thereby making the society to develop. A 25% interest rate means a 10m loan you take to build your 2 bedroom flat payable in 20 years will result to you paying back 50-60m in 20 years. Who does that? How is that possible to pay back? Instead of paying 60mback in 20 years, why not just I mould my blocks slowly slowly as the money dey enter they build am small small. Reason why you see nigeria so littered with incompleted buildings or people moving into shambolic buildings where they use the wife wrapper to cover the windows, unplastered walls, planks to cover windows pending when they have small cash to do some parts and many more.
Here u are! U say Inflation and interest rate move opposite direction and inversely related. Only for u to explain a direct relationship and moving in the same direction. One go up, d other go up too. And one go down, the other go down. That’s directly proportional
SMH, I think Economics should be made compulsory for everybody and every courses up to university level.
In a lay man explanation. When there are too much money in circulation or when there is a perceived inflation, government regulatory body increases interest rates to banks and bank increase interest rates to customers which reduces customer borrowing from banks and hence reduce money in circulation and reduces inflation.
On the other hand. When there are lesser money in circulation, govt reduces interest rates to banks and bank also reduce to loan borrowers to encourage loans.
In economics, it's explained in terms of bonds
I weak for all these fake economics! Who told u and Emeifele that excess liquidity is caused by citizen’s borrowings? Aside big businesses thin capitalizing, like Dangote. Who else is borrowing? Or wen was the last time u took a bank loan? Oga face the truth! Do you know how much political parties have spent on their conventions alone this yr? Political spending is d major culprit and interest rate can’t stop it. They just want to suffocate SMEs dat do one or two things with banks!
1stGenAmerican: Snowden was just granted citizenship to a country that is quickly closing its borders so those inside can’t escape. The Jokes write themselves every day.
Really? And some people living in d 107 sq km of occupied Ukraine lands of Donbas, Kherson, Zaporizhzhia are happily voting over 95% to be included in that Putin’s bondage
festacman: Your points not clear. Thanks for engaging, though.
My point? Am sure u’ve heard of brain drain? Its real. All our best and brightest go to them! They actively precipitate it. All d bright minds in Uni back den have all gone. There was one very very popular medical graduate, his fame went round the school den. No sooner after his exams, he crossed over. Another guy I was introduced to, humble looking but I was told he is the father of all d clever! Even the VC knew him. After first class in Accounting, which is rear, the VC himself sent him abroad. Dats b4 youth service! The shocking part is, u will be in ur house, they will bring Green P to u. Na mumu dey queue for visa. If u are hot upstairs, American visa will queue for u. This is how they have maintained their tech edge. There is an ibo guy from UNN who broke a long standing record of 120yrs in MIT. NTA news carried it. Even Nigerian govt. was represented by Atiku Abubakar at his graduation. They take our brightest. That’s their trick.
festacman: US is oil-rich, agriculturally strong, tech-dominating and digital-intimidating. How about that?
Ignorance Wot u looking at in d museum is exactly how America became great. Take from others and add to urself. After WW2 they took all German scientists they cud find in Berlin. Since den they keep eagle watch on the world for bright and fecund minds. They have not sent u a green P in ur house becos u no hot. Otherwise u for shock
festacman: These people built airplanes, cars, macro and mini computers, sundry electronic appliances, flew to the moon, etc but treat some bronze works from Africa as something mysterious.
Tell me why this is not just a ploy to hold us back to bronze age when they are far ahead in the hi-tech and digital worlds.
Ignorance. Where is there own work in minerals 200yrs ago? If they cud plunder our intellectual property as u can see, can’t u imagine how they stole all our tech away from us?
BloomingDale: That is why I said Christianity and the bible were got from other ancient religions/myths/folktales and books. What I did not go into properly or research was the GENEsis of it all, that is, which of the various religions/myths/folktales and books Christianity was derived from. Go read the dead sea scrolls. It's almost like the bible was copied word for word from it.
The story of the Egyptian plagues is in the Egyptian hieroglyphics writings that is way older than the dead sea scrolls, bible etc
I don’t understand wot u mean by Egyptian plagues in Hieroglyphics but not in DSS? Wot abt dat? Maybe it may help if u remember Israel was in Egypt for 500yrs
BloomingDale: That is why I said Christianity and the bible were got from other ancient religions/myths/folktales and books. What I did not go into properly or research was the GENEsis of it all, that is, which of the various religions/myths/folktales and books Christianity was derived from. Go read the dead sea scrolls. It's almost like the bible was copied word for word from it.
The story of the Egyptian plagues is in the Egyptian hieroglyphics writings that is way older than the dead sea scrolls, bible etc
U don’t understand If I have a photocopy of a document and u also have a similar photocopy, it doesn’t mean my photocopy was photocopied from yours. Yours is not the original and certainly wasn’t photocopied from the original. The DSS has variations in it different from current Bible. Though not serous but significant nonetheless
BloomingDale: Of course Hebrew is not the oldest writing. When I find the video of the "Bible" originally written in Egyptian hieroglyphics I will send it to you.
Its abundantly clear that the Bible we use today did not descend from the Dead Sea scroll The age of the scroll is 300BCE-1CE. There is no event of 300BCE captured in the Old Testament. The book of First and Second Maccabee, which didn’t even make it into the Bible is events that took place 500BCE. So, Dead Sea Scroll is a copy, which got hidden. It doesn’t mean it was the only copy at d time. Copies of copies of copies had to be made all the time b4 printing press came. So our Bible today was from other copy which is not DSS. And DSS itself is a copy