₦airaland Forum

OkCornel:
Please don’t make me laugh.
So for example, the man Paul wrote of in 2 Corinthians 12 v 2 that was “caught up in the spirit “ to heaven was having a vision? Lmao.

Oh wot was he having?

OkCornel:
Did the scriptures clearly state believers will have their thrones from which they’ll judge the world when they reign with Christ?

Or this is your own interpretation.

U cannot judge without a throne

OkCornel:
Bros, having a vision and being caught up in the spirit are different experiences.

You’re still in your body in the case of a vision.

When you’re caught up in the Spirit, your consciousness leaves your physical body, it’s transferred substantially to your spirit man.

Don’t mix up one for the other. John was caught up in the Spirit from Revelation 4 v 2. He wasn’t having a vision.

LOL U just confirmed my suspension
Wen u have a vision, u are caught up in spirit. It means the same thing

OkCornel:
Then you’ve not answered the original question I asked you;

Please kindly point out where precisely the scriptures shows the believers in the churches will have thrones which they will sit on to judge. Hopefully it’s not a verse interpreted out of context!

I have given u 1corinthians 6:2-3
Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
IT IS ALL U NEED

OkCornel:
All this round about will end when you answer this question.

John was in the Spirit right from Revelation 4 v 2.

You agreed John was not in Heaven in Revelation 14 v 1-3. The scriptures states it clearly the Lamb and the 144,000 were right in front of John.

1. Where was John located?
2. Where was the lamb and 144,000 located? Bearing in mind they were right in front of John?

Its possible u’ve never had a vision b4.
How can I explain to u dat a place in America can stand right b4 u in Nigeria?

OkCornel:
This proves you didn’t read my post.

Read slowly, I mentioned “believers will judge the world when they reign with Christ for a thousand years.” How did you miss that?

My point is, the church has nothing to do with the thrones mentioned in Revelation 20 v 4. It’s the 12 disciples (and perhaps the 24 elders) who have thrones and authority to judge and reward the saints! Jeez!!

Am surprised u are still repeating ur funny logic again? U have to pass thru those THRONES in Rev 20 to earn the TAG Believer. It is with that tag u will ascend a throne down the line

OkCornel:
Beautiful! So believers on earth right now have not been redeemed by the blood of Christ going by your logic?

Question still stands…where was John since the Lamb and the 144,000 appeared right before him. You earlier mentioned John was not in heaven

Redeemed by the blood is not the same thing as redeemed from the earth.
It means RESCUED FROM THE EARTH.
I can only advice u to read that place with a modern translation cos I perceive its KJV English dats worrying ur comprehension

OkCornel:
Cross check this against Revelation 20 v 4-6. It doesn’t match. Yes, the saints shall judge the world BUT! In Revelation 20 v 4-6, in the first resurrection where the saints would receive their reward and reign with Christ there are thrones quite alright, but believers cannot be the judge and the judged. Simple elimination.

They (the Saints) will judge the world when they reign with Christ in the millennial kingdom.

Going further in that chapter, in the second resurrection, there is only one throne. The Great white throne judgment. No extra thrones for anyone else to judge from.





I hope you can see that there are 12 thrones in there.

Read from Matthew 19 v 23, Jesus was speaking to his disciples only. Not the entire crowd that followed him. Context! 12 disciples, 12 thrones.

This links in beautifully to tell us those who have been given thrones to reward the saints in Revelation 20 v 4. The 12 disciples are those on the throne. (And the 24 elders perhaps)

The Revelation 20:6 which u trust in is d same that testify against u
Rev 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Equally Jesus spoke mostly to the 12. Everything that apply to one disciple apply to another disciple of Christ

OkCornel:
Stop playing games. Right from Revelation 4 v 2, John was taken “in the Spirit” to see the things which will happen at the end of time.


Back to Revelation 14, John was not in heaven, but he saw the 144,000 and the Lamb right before him. Where was John whilst he was in the Spirit at the time…hmmm?

Stop confusing yourself
U CANNOT BE REDEEMED FROM THE EARTH AND STILL BE ON THE EARTH
REV 14:1-3
And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which WERE REDEEMED FROM THE EARTH

OkCornel:
So where was John?

Hint: The Lamb and the 144,000 were right before him.

John himself was physically on Patmos Island
U telling me mt. Zion is located on Patmos?

OkCornel:
Bros, the question is simple. Ask yourself, if the Mount Zion in that context is the one in heaven and the 144,000 are there… then why did Apostle John hear the music “FROM HEAVEN” if they (the 144,000) are already in heaven?

Don’t ignore these tiny but critical details.

Is Mount Zion on earth? Yes or No

That’s the question.

The Apostle was not in heaven himself. He saw a scene in heaven from the earth and heard a voice also from heaven
If u read every thing holistically u will agree those 144k people were not standing on any where earth

OkCornel:
Is there a temple in heaven? Yes
Will there also be a temple in Israel in the end times? Yes

Is there Mount Zion in heaven? Yes
Is there Mount Zion on Earth? Yes.

Divide the word properly and get the context.

Revelation 14:1-3.

1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion[/b

[b][/i]], and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.


Bros, please read Revelation 14 v 1-3 slowly. Look at the parts I bolded. They (the lamb and 144,000) were on Mount Sion (not heaven)

Secondly, if they (the 144,000) were already in heaven, why did Apostle John hear a sound "from heaven"?

The 144,000 were on mount Sion (not heaven), the lamb was with them. Only the 144,000 could learn a new song which was played from the throne room of heaven.

U have not researched enough to see Zion have metaphorical meanings even in plane text of scriptures. There is no mount Zion it’s just a hill close to the old city. But Bible uses the word for even the city itself, heaven and Nation Israel. Ask google if u doubt
1 And I LOOKED[i] and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion
I try to bolden a part of the scripture u neglected
John was not in heaven seeing Zion as u assume. Rather he saw it from a far and heard the voice coming from the same location which is heaven.

OkCornel:
Faithful believers who endure persecution (for example the ones in the Thyatira church - Revelation 2 v 26-27) and the believers who were slain in the great tribulation (Revelation 20 v 4-6) will rule over the nations with Christ as Priests.

Please kindly point out where precisely the scriptures shows the believers in the churches will have thrones which they will sit on to judge. Hopefully it’s not a verse interpreted out of context!



Context! Context!! Context!!!

Who is the man child offspring (singular noun) of the woman that’ll rule the nations with a rod of iron

Who are the other offsprings (plural noun) of the woman who hold onto the testimony of Jesus that the dragon will war against?!

1corinthians 6:2-3
2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
Matt 19:28-29
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

OkCornel:
Again, Mt Zion in that scripture is on earth. Not heaven.

The 144,000 will be on Mount Zion and will sing a new song only they can learn. This song would be played “from” the throne room of Heaven for them to learn.

Mount Zion is heaven
Hebrews 12:22-24
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion[i][/i], and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abe

OkCornel:
Beautiful. The man is the offspring of the woman. The rest of the woman’s offspring (those who hold onto the testimony of Jesus and obey the Laws of God) is the church.

Multiple offsprings from one woman. The man-child is ONE of the offsprings hence, the manchild can’t be Christ and the church at the same time.

The man child is Christ, the one who would rule the nations with a rod of iron.

U are extremely wrong.
The church will rule the nations
Sit on thrones dispensing judgement
In Addition Jesus is the husband of the church not the child of the church
The woman didn’t rapture, other of her remnants didn’t rapture. Not every one in the church will rapture. They rest will wait out the wrath of the dragon for time times and half time like Daniel 7:25-26 teach

OkCornel:
This refers to the 144,000 witnesses from Israel who are sealed.

Where did John see in heaven or earth the saints (church) that escaped from the great tribulation in any of his visions?

Before the sealing there was calamity about to befall the earth
The seal exempted them
They were Jews not Christians
They were later seen on Mt Zion with the lamb in heaven

OkCornel:
Krismas, can you point us to verses in the book of Revelation where Apostle John saw believers that escaped from the great tribulation?

Rev 7:2-4
And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.[i][/i]
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Rev 14:1
And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

144 thousand Jews will be saved from the wrath strictly by grace
They were seen on my Zion. Its Jewish rapture

OkCornel:
The man child is not the church. The offsprings of the woman who hold on to the testimony of Jesus IS THE CHURCH.

The church are Apostle John’s brothers and sisters who hold onto the testimony of Jesus which the Angel spoke of in Revelation 19 v 9-10.

Is the man child not an upspring of the woman?
Who den is the manchild?
Is not everyone who hold the testimony of Jesus that’s the church of Jesus
John d Baptist testified of Jesus yet he is NOT part of the Church of Jesus Christ

OkCornel:
In the book of Revelation, the church is also referred to those who hold onto the testimony of Jesus.

Revelation 19 v 9-10;
9 Then the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!” And he added, “These are the true words of God.”

10 At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers and sisters who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For it is the Spirit of prophecy who bears testimony to Jesus.”


The church is not the man child. The book of Revelation, has a curse on those who add to or deduct from it. The church as I mentioned in the previous paragraph are those who hold onto the testimony of Jesus. They are the other offsprings of the woman whom the beast would war against and persecute.

Revelation 12 v 17;
17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring —those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

U miss all the salient points
First u will agree, is not every one invited to the wedding that’s the bride.
The bride is the church, others will be there who are invitees and not celebrants.
There is no single place in the Bible where the anti christ was discussed without giving the extent of his reign, which is TIME TIMES TIME/2 = 31/2 yrs.
That it was mentioned in rev 12 means it’s an Antichrist exposition
The tribulation of the dragon on the remnants happened after the man-child was CAUGHT-UP

OkCornel:
Where did Paul write the church is the obstruction (restrainer)? Where in the scriptures has the pronoun “he” been used to identify the church?

The church is both a bride and a MAN CHILD
Rev 12:2-5
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.[i][/i]
Rev 12 is very revealing. The woman went to hide in the wilderness for TIME, TIMES and HALF TIME what does this mean to u?

OkCornel:
Matthew 23 v 29-31 has no correlation to what we’re discussing. Rather you should be referring to Matthew 24 v 29-31. And this is so straightforward to understand.

Matthew 24 v 29-31;
29 “Immediately after the distress of those days ‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.
31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Read the bolded parts highlighted in red slowly

Oh come on
I was referring to THE DISTRESS of those days.
So clearly I was referring to Matt 24:29-31
23:29-31 was an error. That shud have been apparent
Then look at your highlights again
WHAT IS THE DISTRESS in that text?
Is not the GREAT TRIBULATION?
It is billed to happen after the rapture

OkCornel:
Please where did Apostle Paul identify the believers as the restrainer in 2 Thessalonians 6 v 7?

When he clearly mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2 v 1-4 that the gathering of the church unto Christ will not happen until the lawless one appears?

2thessalonians 2:4 is telling u the END WILL NOT COME UNLESS THE MAN OF PERDITION SIT ON THE THRONE
2 Thessalonians 2:6-7
Concludes by saying THE MAN OF PERDITION WILL NOT COME UNTIL THE OBSTRUCTION IS TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY
The church is the OBSTRUCTION

OkCornel:
1 Thessalonians 4 v 16-17 is the same thing as Matthew 24 v 29-31. And it’s “immediately after the tribulation of those days”

Matthew 24 v 29-31;
29 “Immediately after the distress of those days ‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.
31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

This is the “last trump”. There is no trumpet after this.

Wrong
Rapture is before THE DISTRESS OF THOSE DAYS as in Matt 23: 29-31
2 Thessalonians 6-8
And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.[i][/i]
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
The church is the one preventing the full manifestation of THE MAN OF SIN who will bring the distress on the earth. Rapture is the TAKING AWAY of the only hindrance to this global chaos

At Rapture only the believers will see Jesus not the WORLD
John 14:22
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

Dennisbulkan:
Your blood sucking clueless god is evil

No
U are the one that misunderstand the implications of conniving with evil.
Judgement is prolonged inorder to exhaust it of ALL mercy
Flee from the wrath that’s to come bro

BigDawsNet:
So if you believe we come and we must return back to dust




Can we represent the breath as soul?


What happens to the wicked people soul
What do they face afterlife

Psalm 9:17
17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

OkCornel:
The verses talks about the coming of the Son of Man, not a fake pretribulation rapture.

Talks about both
Jesus will come to conduct the RAPTURE process
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.[i][/i]

PericomaNwankwo:
This world is very funny. Just thinking about the billions of people that will be disappointed to learn that what they believe in is a mere story and totally different from the fate of our universe.

Opposite
What is the FATE of our universe?

.

Isokiscool:
I never said so in Edo election,Edo no b lagos and APC was beaten mercilessly

APC was beaten by a man who came from APC to PDP after beating PDP mercilessly in his first term

abobote:
The anger is understandable, coz the huge amount River State, lost on that failed project.

He lost the primaries, and its very risky to use someone you defeated as a running mate. He might still fight you for the seat.

Moreover, it's not written anywhere, that the person that comes second, should be the running. Wike and his supporters should stop making it look like their right.

Atiku neglected the party’s advisory committee who gave Wike 16votes to pick Okowa who got only 3 votes as VP.
Atiku is never ready to be president.

Isokiscool:
stop recieving ursef, Omon Agege will not win delta state

That’s wot the likes of u said in Edo, wen GODWIN Obaseki came with APC.

alsudan:
Shut up backstabbing Horce Teeth

This man will not get 30 percent votes for PDP in Delta State, not to talk of other SS states.

Just a worthless VP candidate who was compensated for betraying the Asaba declaration he himself hosted.

He will NEVER have even smell governor if not for Tompolo