₦airaland Forum

PastorAIO: They didn't ask you which one is more important to you, they asked which one came first.


My answer is that the Bible came before Bible-based christianity. However the Christianity that Jesus founded came before the bible.

in oda words, d xtianity jesus founded is diffrent from d bible based xtinity? Abeg explain better

Most christians except catholics believe that the bible came b4 d church. But the catholics blieve d church started at penticost and am sure non of the letters of d new testament have been written then. Again the apostles recorded what d church did or what d church is doing. Some others wil say d old testament was already there but every xtian know dat without d new testament d old wont be relevant to xtians because d new gave meaning to d old n dats y d church added it to d bible.

Hello friends, here i will be posting quotes from the catechism of the catholic church for you daily just as i received them from catholic faith friends.




08/01/2014
The name Jesus means “God saves”.
the child born of the Virgin Mary is called
Jesus, “for he will save his people from their
sins” (⇒ Mt 1:21): “there is no other name
under heaven given among men by which we
must be saved” (⇒ Acts 4:12).
--Catechism of The Catholic Church #452

thank u sal c
i wanted to post from catholic.com about d fact that d pope did not say those things but network no allow me. thank God u read it too. d person deliberately chosed Arinze because he know say Africans will blive it.

The Immaculate Conception
...........................................................
It’s important to understand what the doctrine
of the Immaculate Conception is and what it is
not. Some people think the term refers to
Christ’s conception in Mary’s womb without
the intervention of a human father; but that is
the Virgin Birth. Others think the Immaculate
Conception means Mary was conceived "by the
power of the Holy Spirit," in the way Jesus
was, but that, too, is incorrect. The
Immaculate Conception means that Mary,
whose conception was brought about the
normal way, was conceived without original sin
or its stain—that’s what "immaculate" means:
without stain. The essence of original sin
consists in the deprivation of sanctifying grace,
and its stain is a corrupt nature. Mary was
preserved from these defects by God’s grace;
from the first instant of her existence she was
in the state of sanctifying grace and was free
from the corrupt nature original sin brings.
When discussing the Immaculate Conception,
an implicit reference may be found in the
angel’s greeting to Mary. The angel Gabriel
said, "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with
you" (Luke 1:28). The phrase "full of grace" is
a translation of the Greek
word kecharitomene. It therefore expresses a
characteristic quality of Mary.
The traditional translation, "full of grace," is
better than the one found in many recent
versions of the New Testament, which give
something along the lines of "highly favored
daughter." Mary was indeed a highly favored
daughter of God, but the Greek implies more
than that (and it never mentions the word for
"daughter". The grace given to Mary is at once
permanent and of a unique
kind. Kecharitomene is a perfect passive
participle of charitoo , meaning "to fill or
endow with grace." Since this term is in the
perfect tense, it indicates that Mary was
graced in the past but with continuing effects
in the present. So, the grace Mary enjoyed was
not a result of the angel’s visit. In fact,
Catholics hold, it extended over the whole of
her life, from conception onward. She was in a
state of sanctifying grace from the first
moment of her existence.
Fundamentalists’ Objections
Fundamentalists’ chief reason for objecting to
the Immaculate Conception and Mary’s
consequent sinlessness is that we are told that
"all have sinned" (Rom. 3:23). Besides, they
say, Mary said her "spirit rejoices in God my
Savior" (Luke 1:47), and only a sinner needs a
Savior.
Let’s take the second citation first. Mary, too,
required a Savior. Like all other descendants of
Adam, she was subject to the necessity of
contracting original sin. But by a special
intervention of God, undertaken at the instant
she was conceived, she was preserved from
the stain of original sin and its consequences.
She was therefore redeemed by the grace of
Christ, but in a special way—by anticipation.
Consider an analogy: Suppose a man falls into
a deep pit, and someone reaches down to pull
him out. The man has been "saved" from the
pit. Now imagine a woman walking along, and
she too is about to topple into the pit, but at
the very moment that she is to fall in,
someone holds her back and prevents her. She
too has been saved from the pit, but in an
even better way: She was not simply taken out
of the pit, she was prevented from getting
stained by the mud in the first place. This is
the illustration Christians have used for a
thousand years to explain how Mary was saved
by Christ. By receiving Christ’s grace at her
conception, she had his grace applied to her
before she was able to become mired in
original sin and its stain.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church states
that she was "redeemed in a more exalted
fashion, by reason of the merits of her
Son" (CCC 492). She has more reason to call
God her Savior than we do, because he saved
her in an even more glorious manner!
But what about Romans 3:23, "all have
sinned"? Have all people committed actual
sins? Consider a child below the age of reason.
By definition he can’t sin, since sinning
requires the ability to reason and the ability to
intend to sin. This is indicated by Paul later in
the letter to the Romans when he speaks of the
time when Jacob and Esau were unborn babies
as a time when they "had done nothing either
good or bad" (Rom. 9:11).
We also know of another very prominent
exception to the rule: Jesus (Heb. 4:15). So if
Paul’s statement in Romans 3 includes an
exception for the New Adam (Jesus), one may
argue that an exception for the New Eve
(Mary) can also be made.
Paul’s comment seems to have one of two
meanings. It might be that it refers not to
absolutely everyone, but just to the mass of
mankind (which means young children and
other special cases, like Jesus and Mary, would
be excluded without having to be singled out).
If not that, then it would mean that everyone,
without exception, is subject to original sin,
which is true for a young child, for the
unborn, even for Mary—but she, though due
to be subject to it, was preserved by God from
it and its stain.
The objection is also raised that if Mary were
without sin, she would be equal to God. In the
beginning, God created Adam, Eve, and the
angels without sin, but none were equal to
God. Most of the angels never sinned, and all
souls in heaven are without sin. This does not
detract from the glory of God, but manifests it
by the work he has done in sanctifying his
creation. Sinning does not make one human.
On the contrary, it is when man is without sin
that he is most fully what God intends him to
be.
The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception
was officially defined by Pope Pius IX in 1854.
When Fundamentalists claim that the doctrine
was "invented" at this time, they
misunderstand both the history of dogmas and
what prompts the Church to issue, from time
to time, definitive pronouncements regarding
faith or morals. They are under the impression
that no doctrine is believed until the pope or
an ecumenical council issues a formal
statement about it.
Actually, doctrines are defined formally only
when there is a controversy that needs to be
cleared up or when the magisterium (the
Church in its office as teacher; cf. Matt.
28:18–20; 1 Tim. 3:15, 4:11) thinks the
faithful can be helped by particular emphasis
being drawn to some already-existing belief.
The definition of the Immaculate Conception
was prompted by the latter motive; it did not
come about because there were widespread
doubts about the doctrine. In fact, the Vatican
was deluged with requests from people
desiring the doctrine to be officially
proclaimed. Pope Pius IX, who was highly
devoted to the Blessed Virgin, hoped the
definition would inspire others in their
devotion to her.
www.catholic.com

i must thank italo because he has done well. i like his arguement n its straight forward. adstone or whatever is just repeating himself n trying hard to disagree even when he is caught up in his own words. i have been following n i know i can't type my arguement as quickly to follow up dats y i dont allways reply.
more grease to ur elbow italo, keep it up.

and as for our penticostal brodas, when u c a gud argument dat have disproved urs please accept d truth n dont continue auguing so as to make us know ur being sincere, thank u

donphilopus: When you recite the "words of the Apostles creeds", you'll see something like this; either in the Anglican, the Roman-Catholic, or the Apostolic/Methodist Church! "I believe in the only Catholic church, the communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting! Amen".

That is to say every non pentecostal churches still pledge allegiance to the Catholic church, because they broke from there, due to their doctrine! The main reason why the Roman-Catholic church still refers to herself as Catholic is the Cotholic doctrine they still practise! So also the non-pentecostal churches believe they originated from Catholic church, but they don't practise their doctrine anymore!

The early church was known as Catholic church, while the present one we call Catholic is Roman-Catholic.

are u not a confused person?
simce u belive d apostles creed was formed by d apostles,what about d nicene and athanasian creed. go n read n u will c that same verse there. tell me, was nicene not a catholic council presided over by d pope?

dejilg: 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

I have a question again,

Is the Pope fallible or Infallible?

pls go n open a thread or go to d other threads. if everybody starts asking, will this thread still stand? n if ans are given are u going to accept or continue arguing?

dejilg: Exactly, but den again, what's d significance of the "Holy Communion"?

my frnd, u cannot eat what u dont blive in. if u want to take communion, come into d church n make sure u ve prepared urself like catholics do. its not discriminatn but d church is tryin to help u.

dejilg: For all dis catholic pupils here, I have a question to you

Why don't u honour David? Just as u honour Mary

david was a king in israel n d old testament held him in high regard. catholics does not despise him but we give mary dat honour for her role in our salvation history.

ur even going too far y not talk about joseph n i will tell u dat we honour him too.

daraj: its a pity how people argue blindly without proof,and abuse a man of God with impunity,the fact that he is human and has weakness and thus fall in certain circumstances does not give anybody the right to insult who God has called and whether you believe it or not as far as he is representing the Almighty God he has the annointing of God upon his life so you people should be very careful in your choice of words particularly when it has to do with a man of God.if you are a good bible scholar you could recall in the bible when saul was after Davids life and he (david) has the opportunity to kill saul he refused and said how can he touch the anointed of God or do him harm,not only by our hands can we do harm but also by our words,i am not an advocate of pastor okotie i just want to bring to light the dangers of our words when its directed to a man of GOD.In reference to the above topic if catholics really want to know if they are serving the true JESUS of the bible i would like to recommend that they read this book PREPARE FOR WAR by Rebecca Brown MD.

we are not in doubt of d God we serve, u should read d book n den read ur bible again to be sure. as for me(a catholic) i firmly remain with d teachings of d church which is d same as what christ taught us.

I read the lines of Pastor Chris Okotie himself. I
saw and heard people commenting on it; some
were angry with Pastor Chris, some felt like
beheading him like John De Baptist, and some
who are in d same ignorant-boat with him
supported him. My Priest bro and good friend Fr
John Ograh systematically outlined, refuted his
obnoxious and contradictory lifestyles and
postulations.
Nonetheless, I borrow and align myself with the
thought of Fr Iwatt Benedict: To gain d cheapest
popularity in d world, especially as a pastor, u
must talk against d CATHOLIC CHURCH. Sermons
are not complete without an ignorant and
baseless criticism to d Catholic Church, her
Faith and People. Pastor Chris Okotie is one of
such Pastors. Interestingly, no OFFICIAL
response is given.
Pastor Chris Okotie has consciously noticed dt
his nagatively-acquired fame seemed to be dyin
off. So he once again came on to d stage of
ignominy to reclaim fame. History is replete
with him persecuting TB Joshua, Chris
Oyakhilome to d presidency. Even, he once told
Nigerians as a political-pastor dt God sent him
to be d president- but d same God rejected him
at d polls. Hmmmm, so much of a confused
Man.
If to talk CATHOLICISM makes u popular,
however wrongly, den am proud to b a FULL
and TRUE EPITOME Minister of d world's best
faith-based-institution. Its a fact dt anybody can
wake up and declares himself/herself Pastor, but
not anybody can just declare to b Catholic,
talkless a Catholic Priest. No b moi-moi.... May
God, thro d intercession of our Mother Mary
help Pastor Chris Okotie and his followers to
truely repent. Ise

Taken from fr. kingsly idehen facebook page

1. legion of mary
2. pages of the blessed sacrament
3. once an alter server
4. devine mercy devotee

adsonstone: was it not a question you asked?
Have you not answered your question?

Or do u still want an answer?

am convinced that most penticostals xpecially on nairaland are not asking questions to learn but to ridicle d church.

my friends, i want to use this medium to
meet those of you who have written the
Administrative Staff College Of Nigeria public
service exam(ASCON). i saw it on pointer
newspaper
and from d paper, d exam will take place
earlly next year. but is it true that when u
pass d exam you will b employed into d civil
service? pls i need contributions especially
from people who have written d exam
before. thanks

adsonstone: To teach what exactly?

Things Christ did not teach?

wat are u doing now, is it not teaching? smh

adsonstone: To teach what exactly?

Things Christ did not teach?

since u know dat jesus tot everytin wat are u doing here?

pleeesssoooooo, i need u guys to reply me. i need answers

truthislight: Where did you show evidence for Pope's infallibility from scriptures ?

I have been asking you all along, but no one has answered it.

mathew 28:19-20
the church was given the authority to teach not d bible. n d pope has d authority as d head of d church

adsonstone: Now, I begin to wonder why these questions are left unanswered....

jesus sai to peter: confirm thy brethren. is peter d only one who can confirm among d apostles?

truthislight: it is the word of God that cannot fail.

Is the pope a bible writer ?

Even bible writers are fellible men.

ur confusing urself

truthislight: How can paul that said he stumbled man times be infellible ?

How can peter that apostle paul corrected and said "he stood condamed" in his ways then can be infellible ?

Infact, God does not need men to be infellible for him to use them, else, he will have used angels.

God needs humble men that loves the truth and are honest at heart.

i have bin following dis tread. my bro, i tink if u dont know what d church is saying when its said dat d pope is infallible, den u go n research not cone here n say wat u dont know. d church is neva saying dat d pope does not make mistakes. i will leave u to do ur reaearch first.

vickyO: I Timothy 2:5
"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and Men, the man Christ Jesus."
The Bible is clear on that, probably not the Catholics?

check d meaning of mediation n intercesory.den tell me if d intercesors in ur church are going against scripture.

my friends, i want to use this medium to
meet those of you who have written the
Administrative Staff College Of Nigeria public
service exam(ASCON). i saw it on pointer newspaper
and from d paper, d exam will take place
earlly next year. but is it true that when u
pass d exam you will b employed into d civil
service? pls i need contributions especially
from people who have written d exam
before. thanks

vickyO: How did you know Christ? Knowing Christ in this context is deeper than knowing him as a Saviour who died for our sins. As Christians, we are the church, it's the Bible through the Holy Spirit that gives us insight into the plans of God for us.

the topic we are treating is trying to give d bible its proper place in christendom. d bible is not a manual or textbook or history book for xtians. we should know that its a gift from God to d church to further God's kingdom on earth. it canneva take d place of church which is d primary source of truth for xtians.

even as a straight u can still have sex tru d anus wit anoda man but u do not feel dat its rite. so hermaphrodites are not necesarily gay because they will also feel it rite to have sex with either man or woman not both.

vickyO: Isn't it through the Bible the church got it knowledge of Christ??
Read Alwaystrue's post

the church couldnt have got its knowledge from d bible because d church wrote d bible. just like moses n d earlly prophets didnt know about God from d old testament because they wrote it. jesus tot d church n commissioned dem to teach d people in mat.28, He told dem"i will b wit u till d end of time"

idnoble135: Nothing is glaring. You are just trying to desperately make a point that is invalid. No one said Bible was in existence during the era of the saints. You brought that up for a reason i still don't know. And i did not object. Even the basic point i made here, you chose to turn a blind eye on it.
By the way, did Peter call Paul's letters scriptures or not?

pls look at d topic again

is it dat nobody has written dis exam on dis forum?

In Hebrew the name of God is spelled YHWH.
Since ancient Hebrew had no written vowels, it
is uncertain how the name was pronounced
originally, but there are records of the name
in Greek, which did have written vowels. These
records indicate that in all likelihood the name
should be pronounced "Yahweh."
Shortly before the first century A.D., it
became common for Jews to avoid saying the
divine name for fear of misusing it and
breaking the second commandment ("You shall
not take the name of the Lord, your God, in
vain," Dt 5:11). Whenever they read Scripture
aloud and encountered the divine name, they
substituted another Hebrew word,
"Adonai" (which means "Lord" or "my Lord",
in its place.
Eventually Hebrew developed written vowels,
which appeared as small marks called vowel
points and were placed above and below the
consonants of a word. In the sixth or seventh
century some Jews began to place the vowel
points for "Adonai" over the consonants for
"Yahweh" to remind the reader of Scripture to
say "Adonai" whenever he read "Yahweh."
About the 13th century the term "Jehovah"
appeared when Christian scholars took the
consonants of "Yahweh" and pronounced it
with the vowels of "Adonai." This resulted in
the sound "Yahowah," which has a Latinized
spelling of "Jehovah." The first recorded use of
this spelling was made by a Spanish Dominican
monk, Raymundus Martini, in 1270.
Interestingly, this fact is admitted in much
Jehovah's Witness literature, such as their Aid
to Bible Understanding (p. 885). This is
surprising because Jehovah's Witnesses loathe
the Catholic Church and have done everything
in their power to strip their church of traces
of Catholicism. Despite this, their group's very
name contains a Catholic "invention," the
name "Jehovah."
Jehovah's Witnesses blast orthodox
Christendom for "hiding the name of God" by
replacing "Jehovah" with "the Lord" whenever
"Jehovah" appears in Scripture. They charge
this is a Jewish "superstition" that dishonors
God (which it does not). Yet their own
organization has a name that was invented as a
result of the same thinking that produced use
of "the Lord."
www.catholic.com

Lagos – Nigerian Catholics will join other
faithful worldwide on Sunday to mark this year
Solemnity of Christ the King celebration, a
statement said.
Monsignor Gabriel Osu, Director of Social
Communications, Catholic Archdiocese of
Lagos, in a statement on Friday said that the
event would mark the official closure of the
Catholic year of faith.
“The Year of Faith officially comes to an end on
Sunday and it is also a day which marks the
Corpus Christi celebration and to thank God
for the success of the year.
“It is a day set aside to celebrate and
remember Christ’s kingship over all creation as
well as remind us that all humankind must
submit to Christ’s rule.
“Here in the Catholic Archdiocese of Lagos,
Archbishop Adewale Martins will be leading
representatives of the faithful and the clergy
on a procession from Holy Cross Cathedral to
St. Gregory’s College, Obalende, where the
event will be rounded up,” Osu said. (NAN)
www.vanguardngr.com