₦airaland Forum

cap28:
This what i feel as well - this tactic of spreading false propaganda is a common tactic of US and british intelligence agencies.

the questions you've asked are the same ones i was askign when i heard that gadaffi's son's had been captured - wouldnt you think that the first thing they would do woudl be to broadcast live video footage of the son's in captitivity? 

i do not watch al jazeera because it is run by a qatari billionaire who is a collaborator with the british and us intelligence agencies.

definitely do not even bother with the bbc, cnn, abc and all those other media who.res.

i rely on independent journalists like the guy in that link i posted, there's another independent journalist by the name of lizzie phelps - she was actually reporting from tripoli yesterday saying that the capital was completely in the hands of gadaffi's army.

the whole story about gadaffi's son escaping from rebel custody is another fairy story made up by al jazeera - i dont think he was ever captuired in the first place, dont forget these are the same liars who told us gadaffi had run away to venezuela when this thing first kicked off, as for saif al islam being under house arrest - i'll beleive it when i see the footage of him in rebel custody which will  never surface.

SECONDED  

emmatok:
The problem with you, is that you choose to close your eye to atrocities perpetrated by African leader on Africans.

For the past 20 year African govt have been receiving, donations, loan from the west and international organisation.

And what did our African leader do with  those funds? Waste it off-course . And you blame the west for that.

Tell me what the AU did to help the people of Somalia, Sudan and Kenya apart from sending troops .

If the Chinese and Japanese were blaming the west for their problems, will they ever develop?

Bolded is true and a very valid point. If you carefully read the posts, i don't think he's saying we are to blame the West for all our problems because we also have a responsibility. He's saying they have a case to answer and they very well do.

Don't you think its ironic that the British Prime Minister took his time to come home when the rioting in London was outta control but broke short his holiday to head the TNC or whatever meeting and announce the troops are advancing? So this war is more important than running his country, isn't it? THERE'S MORE TO THIS NATO INVASION THAN THEY'RE TELLING US.

Did you know that Libya gold reserves is approx. half that of the Uk's and that's alot considering the population difference. Do you know about Ghadaffi's gift to the third world that was started and finished without any dime from the IMF/World bank? Did you know that Libya's GDP was over $90 billion as of last year? Did you know about the killings of the black Libyans by rebels? Did you know about the excellent living standards of the Libyan people pro-NATO invasion? Did you know Libya wanted to start there own nuclear program some years ago but the "World powers" managed to get their puppets, the United Nations to stop it eventually? Did you know the West were alright to deal with Ghadaffi all these time, till they realised his great dream/plan for Africa that was hopefully gonna reduce on dependence on them?
Even the bible says "Whoever goes to war at his own expense?" Indeed, the Libyans are paying for this war. You think debt ridden America love the Libyans so much to spend billions just to overthrow 1 man, no strings attached? No stakes?? Haba mana.
Cameron is making cuts whilst increasing VAT and all that but can afford to go to war??

emmatok:
The-same EU going into recession.

Britain and Russia are not even in the EU.

Think again who is fooling who.

Britain not in the EU? Where did you get that from? They are very much in!
Russia is not in support of NATO invasion. Check for evidence of Putin condemning it and asking who gave them the right to invade.

emmatok:
90% of those fighters are Libyans,  most of decamped from the Libyan.

It  is easy to come here and blame the West for the problem in Africa.

Yet we African easy run to the West for refuge.

Even the Almighty Muammar Gadaffi cannot keep his stolen fund in Libya, instead he went to the west

I don't blame the West for Africa's problems because our leaders have cases to answer but the West have to take some blame where they have faulted.
WHAT THE WHAT? Where on earth did you read that? 
NO HE DID NOT!

all4naija:
Where did all these Jihadist rhetoric come from? Why would somebody with the slightest sense support Gaddafi for killing his people and oppressing them whenever they go against his views. Guys supporting Gaddafi here, why not ask yourselves how did Gaddafi get to that position in the first place before you start  hammering on free basic needs provided for Libyans?

I am not surprised that some of those siding with the Libyan govt. are not far from enduring the best of dictatorship and tyranny. Remember not everybody would side with that. I better be free than have all the basic things at my disposal in fear or being imprisoned. There is nothing that can be traded for freedom, it is the best thing that can happen to any human being.

What kind of backwardness is that for one family to rule a nation forever after stealing the power through coupe,rhetorically speaking?

The Rebels or rather the NATO lead fight should act quickly to remove that foolish head out of that country. Enough is a enough for the wise - Gaddafi is not needed in Libya, he is not their god. I think better life awaits Libyans in the future. What has having ethnic that can't organize themselves for? Like in the case of Nigeria. What has the large ethnic groups done to move the country forward order than cause trouble or kill each other.I mean if Libyans can't stay together as group after this war then let them divide for freedom and peace to reign!

Hey
Personally, i have not seen any evidence that Ghadaffi was killing his own people and i stand corrected if anyone shows me the link, that is not Aljazeera or any Western media (due to censorship and stake issues in my opinion). All i have heard is that he threatened to level Benghazi but did he actually go on to do it?
Ghadaffi got into power via a BLOODLESS COUP. Check for yourself. How many African leaders have achieved that(even under the election systems) without blood being shed?
I don't like he monopoly for power, not for one second but, have the people in Libya weighed the "good old democratic system" hypothetically against Ghadaffi's regime and decided this was the best for them? I have seen reports that he actually called for a truce and the rebels were willing to talk (because they didn't wanna hurt their compatriots)  but apparently, NATO wasagainst it. Now, if this is true, then it contradicts with NATO being there for the best interest of the Libyan people, innit?

What's gonna happen after he's overthrown with all the dangerous weapons in the hands of the civilians? What guarantee do we have that there would not be ethnic divisions as a result?

Whoever decided that democracy was the best system of the government for the world? Is Saudi Arabia under a democratic regime?
What works for goose may not necessarily work for gander.
Are there democratic elections in China? Why not aid people like Liu Xiaboa in the fight for the freedom if they actually wanna ensure freedom for citizens of the world? Why not also help Bahrain, Syria, Ivory Coast, Zimbabwe and a host of others? Why didn't they help Egypt?
Libyans want to enjoy democracy like Iraq and Afghanistan are now enjoying, abi?

I know its probably impossible for them to go into all these countries but the trend sees to be that they invade countries with natural resources that they have stakes in, but lie to the world that its otherwise. THAT'S MY ISSUE WITH THEM OOO    
I'm pro Ghadaffi or pro NATO. Just want the best for the Libyan people and Africa in general. I really dislike this[b] MODERN COLONISATION[/b].  

knightride:
@ milehigh06

It is very very unfortunate that someone like you is calling Ghadaffi's supporters assholes.
But you know what? I think you need to think deeper because the white man sees you as nothing but an Naugthy-person.

Have you ever sat down to think why thousands must die because of one man? I don't think so.
With all the intelligence that the west brags of; it cannot use it to take Ghadaffi out of power without shedding innocent blood.

And by the way, who told you that the rebels are the people of libya? Do not be fooled my friend.

You are a Black Man Indeed!!!!

Ghadaffi is nothing but a hero. Take it or leave it.

Bolded:Good question  

honeric01:
Mercenaries backed by NATO to dis-stabilize Libya for ONE purpose (oil and greed)

YEP! There are indications of divisions within the rebel´s camp at the moment, so much for the people´s interest huh. For some reason, i can´t shake this sad feelig for the ordinary Libyan, hoping for the best sha!

honeric01:
You actually believe it;s really the Libyan people that's fighting?

Not for a second! But it seems they believe they are loved and cared for so much that the NATO are willing to spend billions in the war (despite their crippliing economies) to help them overthrow their "evil dictator", so im hoping it works out for them!

honeric01:
Even when the motive of invading Iraq was made known, WHAT HAPPENED? did anybody get arrested? Did Blair, Bush get arrested for killing thousands of people in Iraq?

NOTHING!  Maybe because they were leading their countries under a "democratic regime" so could not have made a bad decision, la di dah,
Its ironic that when the london riots started, David Cameron tooks a few days before calling off his holiday to come and talk. Now, he´s interupted his Cornwall holiday to chair a meeting related to the happenings in Libya?
What baffles me is that with all these actions, people seem to think that NATO are just there for Libya´s best interest. Anyhoooo, The truth cannot be supressed forever  

sadyeek:
On point!


Just so sad, Well, I guess one never really knows how good he has it til he has lost it.

A toh, tje Libyans will soon find out if they made the right decision. Good luck to them, they are gonna need it!

Builder:
finny bro. God bless u with your reasoning, i see another iraq in libya,  the west know what they are doing, they just gonna disstabilise libya, kill its people and invade her resources like iraq, ,  those rebel are criminals , despoiler and evil people and with them having this weapons, tell me how they will be surrendered back. thats all the west wants, divide and rule and they seem to be suceeding cos libya like iraq have many tribes and religious sect. during the time of gadaffi, they had free education, medical care, uninterrppted power suppply, emplyment and good standard of living,  libya had no debt,  but now, i forsee car bomb exploding like xmas bangars.
t[b]o be perfectly hinest, i am disappointed in obama[/b]. so far he has been as useless as a used condon,  so much for hope then

WORD!!
Bolded-Seconded! Difference between him and Bush right now to me seems to be in skin colour and political party. I remeber 1 of his campaing promises was to take thr troops out of Iraq, instead, he´s gone into another war.  

@ Tony_450: "He was the one that threatened to level Benghazi in the first place before" Did he actually carry out the threat? Assad is KILLING his people and all they are doing is calling for him to stop and banning oil imports and bla bla bla? How many times did they call on Ghadaffi to step down? And i am yet to see video evidence of Ghaddaffi killing his people pro Nato invasion. Any link but the biased Aljazeera and Western media that are probably highly censored would clarify the doubts i have.
P.S - I´m not Pro-Ghaddaffi, i don´t like his greed for power buthe´s done so many good things for His people & i dont like the way he`s being vilified.  If the  Libyan people decide this is the best for them,its their choice.
So much for democracy ai, how many Americans and British people were calling on their President and Prime Minister respectively to solve their problems back home and not go into any war, did they listen? Is this the freedom of speech that the Libyan people desperately want? Why haven´t ICC issued arrest warrants for Bush and Blair for the people killed when no WMD were found?
Time will reveal NATO´s true movtive sha. The truth cannot be supressed forever.  

[quote author=George_D link=topic=740896.msg8973660#msg8973660 date=1313933953]once again, like i said before, the fear of okonjo-iweala will be the beginning of wisdom for sanusi.

i bet you he's squirming on his seat as we speak!  [/quote]LMHO  

Beaf:
No, we are all equal as flesh and blood. Okonjo-Iweala simply holds all the keys to the ministry of finance, she is also a modern reformist with international clout; fruitcake and idiotic policies like naming something "Islamic Banking" in the middle of the boko haram crisis will not be happening that easily any more.
The CBN is a stabiliser, not a means to rock the boat.

Thank God for that. I'm waiting to see what next he'll come up with if he has Nigeria's best interest at heart.
Beaf, that "INADA BAKI" comment of yours never fails to crack me up, whenever i see your post. Akwai wanda yayi musu ne? lol

There´s this local salad i used to make. Maybe its the poor man´s version or creativity, i don´t know but it sure tastes fab!

Ingredients

Lettuce
Hard boiled egg
Sweet potato (boiled)
Onions
Cooking oil
Sail
Maggi
Fresh or ground pepper
Tomatoes
Cucumber
Grounded kulikuli (peanut butter cake?)
*Sorry but i think quantity depends on individual taste

Method:
Heat the cooking oil and fry tchopped
onions (not for too long) and fresh pepper. Season with salt and maggi (or any other seasoning cube). Allow to cool for a bit.
Chop the lettuce, tomatoes, cucumber and place in a bowl. Dice the boiled eggs and Sweet potato and also put in the bowl. Pour the cooled mixture into the bowl. Sprinkle powered kulikuli and mix thorougly. You can add ground pepper, if the salad is not spicy enough for you, or more salt to taste.

ENJOY! x

Call for the army to be probed? Interesting as i have heard that the Boko Haram guys dress as soldiers as well, who's gonna probe that? What evidence do they have the the soldiers accused of civilian killings actually belong to the Nigerian military?
Isn't it interesting that all these are being pushed for to allow for distraction while the BH prepare to unleash mayhem after ramadan?

DISCLAIMER: I don't condone any violence and believe human life is sacred, even if its of the BH guys but there's a saying "He who lives by the sword dies by the sword".

wizup:
I think the question is: Why is London Burning?, Is it because a man was shot? Is it because of government cuts? Is it because of tuition fee increments? Is it because youth centres are getting shut down? Is it because parents and teachers have been stripped of their disciplinarian powers? OR Is it because kids are eager to commit crime?

Holistic answers to these questions would potentially set a clear path to a sustainable solution.

Is it simply the case of 'spare the Rod and spoil the Child' at least that,s what the bible says.

WHY DO YOU THINK LONDON'S BURNING?

BECAUSE SOME NUTTERS HAVE TO MUCH TIME ON THEIR HANDS TO WASTE AND PEOPLE TOO DEY LIKE AWOOF. SIMPLE! Imagine a looter posting a pix of his loot? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2023667/London-riots-Looter-posts-photo-booty-Facebook.html

If it was cos of the man that was killed, how about the rioting in Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester etc? People have suggested the cuts as a reason but i dont think it is. Some folk have laimed the areas are being neglected by the government and apparently, about 200 of the marched up to Scotland Yard but no one listened to them, not even a single news report. Don't know how true this is but its not reason enough to burn people's means of survival (lots of family businesses ruined) in addition to branches of big stores.

The other questions you asked contain clues to factors that might have a hand in all these, but people's blood de boil so de don they look for any reason, no matter how ridiculous to wreck havoc.

proO1:
I wish I could be as 'politically correct' and 'diplomatic' as you are, but I am not. Let one of these insecure muslim bast,a.rd.s answer this question you just raised. If any of them does, I would forever remain silent. The best they can do is tell you about one 17th century Pope in Europe and other such historical balderdash. In recent times (the last 100 years in fact), how many times have Christians organized/orchestrated/justified/rationalized/celebrated deliberate violence in ANY part of the world in the name of Christ or Christianity? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Let one of these extremist Muslim fools answer this very simple question!

I didn't mean to be "PC" lol. I'm not sure if you'll get an answer but don't be surprised if you're termed a bigot, seems to be the code word these days for avoiding answering a question hehe

Remii:
If the person who killed 91 people in Norway was a Muslim, the Press would have declared him as terrorist.​ For now though, he is just an 'Assailant​ ', 'Attacker'​ (Reuters),​ 'Gunman' (BBC, CNN ). Looks like 'Terrorist​ ' is a name reserved for Muslims? The US Dept of State calls it an 'Act of Violence',​ Not an 'Act of Terrorism'​ . Uhmn! HYPOCRISY is leading us astray

Not justifying what murderers are defined by govts or the media, but he did not say he killed in the name of Jesus, did he? As far as i know, the muslim terrorists kill + vow to continue killing in the name of "Allah", don't they?

[quote author=tpia@ link=topic=722846.msg8845978#msg8845978 date=1312379679]@ ijila

those sound good.

Especially the one with lemon. I dont think i ever tried that though i may have heard of it.

Rice with milk and sugar is pudding, basically. Not usually eaten that way in southern nigeria.[/quote]Its gorgeous, you should try it when u have the chance, i 4 email am for u if i fit lol
Its our northern 9ja pudding then  

[quote author=tpia@ link=topic=722846.msg8842743#msg8842743 date=1312337668]i used to consider this strange until i had rice pudding.

rice isnt eaten with sugar in nigeria.

this isnt really strange, imo.[/quote]It kinda is in a form. There´s a way it is had in the north, ever heard of kunun shinkafa? Rice boiled with some peanut butter+ tamarind/lemon with sugar/sweetener to taste. Also, boiled rice put in the traditional "Nono" (cow milk) * sugar, gorgeous stuff

I didn´t know anyone but me who´s done it that's why i put it up  

Okro soup and miyan kuka with bread
Yoghurt with fresh apple/cucumber
Buns and pepper
Rice porridge with milk
Crumpets with stew
Eggs fried with sardine/tuna + a cube of maggi, hmnn

I reckon ALL Nigerians should have a responsibility to develop the nation, but sadly, that is not the case. Granted there are people that are willing to frustrate efforts to develop the nation at home, but that´s where passion falls in IMO. Eg if moi decides to do something, whatever the opposition, i will do it.
I have always had this notion that i hope to one day give our legislative arm some work, cos i have not seen their use till date. I had so much faith in Bankole *sighs*
Where are the reports of all those committees of this and that set up in the senate for the past 12 years? What have those committees achieved?
I think we need to come up with a way to hold our public officials accountable, i believe its possible. If only we can get like minded people on board. See how powerful the English media is, why can´t our press help us? What about peaceful protests? I don´t know atm but i definitely think there is a way.
I think im gonna start a topic where folks can come up with ideas on how to better the nation, like a brainstorming session online and hopefully, someone´s gonna implement it. Since GEJ is on fbk, maybe he has reps on Nairaland, thing is, i don´t know how to start one hehe, Help?

Guys, i have read some replies and its not really as simple as you think.

teskyg:
Collateral Damage, They are paying the price for harboring BKH.They shield BKH, so they deserve what they got.Why are people not writing against the atrocities of BKH?It is only when Soldiers hit back that our media is awash with doctored and one sided information,

onyekabe:
Gunboat was used at ogbeijaw and ogoni. thousands of people where killed they let the same happen in medugiri. Because all the muslem living there are boko haram otherwise how can somebody just attack and kill a police man and walk into a market and on body will report his wereabout to the police

The Boko Haram guys at the moment don't have any trade mark appearance. It used to be long beards and pedal-pusher trousers but now they're all mixed up that one don't say anything, "i guess they've swaggered up lol ". My parents are there so i know what i'm talking about. Mamaa says no one talks, not even gist about them cos who don't know who is who and they would not hesitate to kill you/your family. NO MERCY! Its pathetic.
The policemen that were fighting them in 2009, were being singled out and killed after the prison break last year. Also, anyone who pointed them out to "Operation flush" (the soldiers brought in 2009 to restore order) were targeted and murdered. Traditional and Islamic clerics that condemned their acts were killed. Its a terrible situation

Ucheosefoh:
What are people still doing in that city for goodness sake

Where will people run to if they have nowhere to go? Isn't leaving the city giving them more training ground to cause havoc? Although, leaving the town can also narrow down civilian casualties and make it easier for JTF to tackle this menace.

Its unfortunate cos they have access to sophisticated weapons that common Nigerian policemen do not have. They might say "Western education is sin" but i assure you, they are up to date with technology. A well equipped hospital was found when the Mohammed Yusuf camp was broken into two years ago.
If to say our security agencies were up to date, the IP address of the person who started that their "Con website" can be figured and his/her motive for starting the site questioned. It may/may not help with intelligence but who knows until we try. I do not think its theirs cos they give public addresses in Hausa or Arabic
I think there is a political twist to it cos my northern brothers will not let that presidency zoning thing just go. They believe that Nigerian presidency is somehow "our birthright", I reckon some northern political big wigs are bent on frustrating President Jonathan's regime by all means to use it to spike unrest. Mind you, their families are not there so they do not bother, heartless desperados. Bring the violence near them and let's see how long this nonsense lasts, its unfortunate but in a war, no one really wins. I hope + pray this ends asap.

claremont:
Claremont terrace is the name of my street somewhere in the north-east of England, definitely not that racist BNP infested Bradford . Don't drink alcohol?! How the hell can someone live in England without taking in copious quantities of holy water?! Rofo-rofo Fight is a song by the great Fela Kuti, and it is often used to describe loads of indescribable describables .
WTF! Please let's not derail this thread, before someone says I have been saying all this just to get into a lady's knickers , not that I would say No to that actually .

You reckon Bradford is BNP infested? Id like to think the opposite actually. Its very multicultural, or rather, some people from a certain country and continent are there in huge no's. Ever had the term "Bradistan"? lol
On the drinking, personal choice . How i wish there are musicians and people with "liver" atm to decry the crisis going on in 9ja man, so pathetic.
Its the romance section afterall hehehe but before you get any ideas, i say in Mr Brown's words "STOP BEING NASTY" lol, look elsewhere   x

claremont:
Oh so you are a scientist as well?! Now you are talking , why didn't you say so initially so I would know how to relate with you scientifically like a sister-in-arms? You said "Nowhere in my posts have I tried to use Christianity to prove the existence of love even though they are intertwined,i believe", so since you believe they are intertwined, it then means that even if there is a remote possibility that "love" may exist, persons who are not Christians are incapable of such "love". Therein lies the problem, maybe only Christians believe in "love", it only exists in their minds.

Have a good day as well, if you were near where I live, we could have gone for a "rofo-rofo" fight somewhere (supported by copious pints of lager ) to practically test which of our scientific theories work  even though we still don't and may never agree.

Lol. Yep, a scientist in a broad sense . sister-in-arm?Gotta use that sometime
I reckon u de Bradford cos your username is a street there, Claremont terrace??, a wild guess anyway
Wetin be rofo-rofo? Soz, dont drink alcohol, maybe some juice or better still,9ja food
True that. Take care x

claremont:
So what's wrong with saying that you speak with religious bias, or are you trying to deny your religion?!
An Oasis?! LWKMD4HOOOOO Do you know the statistical probability of finding an oasis in the barren desert? It is less than 0.1%. How are you sure that rattlesnakes and scorpions will not sting the living daylights out of you before you find any oasis, is it worth the risk?!
So you want me to give you my own precious research papers which prove that "love" does not exist?! I don't need to provide any link to a research paper, because the papers are widely available by simply Googling it. The papers are out there on the web which painstakingly show that "love" is a misnomer and does not exist. On the other hand, I am yet to see any paper which proves the existence of love, most of what I have seen on that regard can merely be described as "Tales by Moonlight" stories not much different from the rant of a scorned woman.

What´s wrong with saying that is that the statement is wrong. Nowhere in my posts have a tried to use Christianity to prove the existence of love even though they are intertwined,i believe. The only biblical reference i made was to say you believe what you believe because man has made you to. Deny my faith? NEVER BY GOD´S GRACE
Whether less than 0.1 or 0.00000001%, there is still a possibility. You  sound like those scientists that agreed metals cannot fly in the air, till the Wright brothers proved them wrong .
Id like to think its worth it dude. A possibility mentality and risk taking are partly responsible for the many advances in science and technology that we all are enjoying the benefits today.
"So you want me to give you my own precious research papers which prove that "love" does not exist?!"
DUH, HAS IT NOT BEEN OBVIOUS?  I HAVE ASKED NUMEROUS TIMES AND SPECIFICALLY ASKED YOU NOT TO TELL ME TO GOOGLE IT, YET YOU DO.
Personally if i believe something i claim to have proof of, i would show the evidence to whoever contradicts my claim and shut them up. Haven´t you learnt that with all your acquittance with the science world? SHOCKING!
"I don't need to provide any link to a research paper, because the papers are widely available by simply Googling it.
You wrote "the onus rests on the author of a hypothesis to prove/disprove it, the inability of the author to prove/disprove the hypothesis simply means that we might as well view the hypothesis as just another "old wives fables", not much different from the ranting of a drunk Englishman". "The burden of proof rests with those who claim the existence of a concept/deity to prove that it exists, and if they choose not to fulfill that burden, then it is logical and reasonable to conclude that the concept/deity in question does not exist. It's common sense really, no need to be a rocket scientist to figure that out.
What is so difficult in proving that a concept that you believe in and is passionate about exists? Na wa for Nairalanders oh!
As Purist put previously ESCAPIST. I REST MY CASE  .
SIGNED. ON BEHALF OF SCIENTISTS LIKE ME WHO ACKNOWLEDGE OUR LIMITATIONS AS HUMANS AND ASCRIBE GLORY TO HE WHO DESERVES IT; GOD!
hmmn, "Tales by moonlight" whatever happened to that? Was one of the best things for kids those days

Anyhoo, have a good day

claremont:
The implication of that Spanish philosopher's statement runs deep, and only an objective minded person can see it, not someone whose mind has been corrupted by religion. What the Spanish "dude" means is that "love" in itself is a fantasy, an imagination, it is a mirage, a misnomer that is completely non-existent; and just like all mirages, it is only when those who believe in love get to the location of the mirage that they will know that there is no water there.

The question is do we really need to journey through the barren desert pursuing the mirage when we all know that there is no water there, or should we make a resolution now that "love" does not exist, thereby saving ourselves the possibility of being bitten by rattlesnakes and scorpions on the way searching for the non-existent water?! I for one, will choose to avoid the danger of being bitten by rattlesnakes and scorpions, rather I prefer to be honest and work out relationships based on mutual symbiosis i.e. give and take. It is the only way to find true happiness, pursuing "love" is a misnomer that will only lead to rattlesnakes and scorpions!

Claiming my mind has been corrupted by religion shows how shallow you are actually. I have been quite objective id like to think, not sure i can say the same about you based on your posts. NOTHING PERSONAL .
Funny that you seem to address some parts of my posts when replying. HOW ABOUT ANSWERING AND ADDRESSING ALL THE QUESTIONS AND ISSUES I HAVE ASKED AND RAISED? [/b]You will find out that the Spanish philosopher´s definition of love is lust actually.
Lust:A large physical attraction for an individual, that is sometimes uncontrollable and completely unreasonable; often confused with love, it is purely physical attraction and has no lasting effect.
"The question is do we really need to journey through the barren desert pursuing the mirage when we all know that there is no water there"
[b]No we don´t but we cannot deny the possibility of finding an Oasis, can we? Why should we make a resolution that love is non-existent because someone claims so? Any Tom, Dick and Harry can post anything on the web and i have been asking for the link to your reliable scientific paper which you have not produced, FOUL PLAY. Hear your words again "the onus rests on the author of a hypothesis to prove/disprove it, the inability of the author to prove/disprove the hypothesis simply means that we might as well view the hypothesis as just another "old wives fables", not much different from the ranting of a drunk Englishman". You may not be the author of the hypothesis that love is non-existent but since you have been asking for a proof for my claims, surely it is not out of place for me to ask the same of you, is it?

I will really appreciate if you answer and address all my questions and issues raised, after all, we are trying to be objective  x

claremont:
Does my search for answers bother you so much or are you just being sarcastic?!

What so now you are searching for answers? I thought this was your aim

claremont:
I have said time and time again that the aim of this debate is not to change the presumption of anyone, but rather, it is to show an often overlooked perspective of this issue, that is the aim! ", the onus rests on the author of a hypothesis to prove/disprove it, the inability of the author to prove/disprove the hypothesis simply means that we might as well view the hypothesis as just another "old wives fables", not much different from the ranting of a drunk Englishman.

I do agree that not all things are tangible, but the fact remains that "fear" has been measured and validated scientifically. "Love" on the other hand is an alien concept which can never be measured simply because it does not exist. You said "the OP is not ready to accept that", Of course, I and my committee of "demonic scientists" will never accept irrational delusions because we are not insane.

What proof do you have that it  has been measured and validated?(Please don´t say a Google search cos that will render void your statements about whoever makes a claim should take the burden of proving it bla bla bla, You said it, prove it then!

Twice you have said to me something in the line of "The burden of proof rests with those who claim the existence of a concept/deity to prove that it exists, and if they choose not to fulfill that burden, then it is logical and reasonable to conclude that the concept/deity in question does not exist. It's common sense really, no need to be a rocket scientist to figure that out." So i have implied for this post that whoever claims something is true must prove it, right?

claremont:
Your views on how we came into existence is based on your religion which is Christianity. If you were a Muslim, Pagan, Atheist, Buddhist e.t.c., you will have radically different views on how we came into being.
You said "The existence of a counterfeit proves that an original exists", what a load of bollocks! Where did you arrive at that hypothesis from?! What is so difficult in proving that a concept that you believe in and is passionate about exists? Na wa for Nairalanders oh!

Yet, you have failed to show your proof and make references to Google search when asked about the sources of your claim. Maybe you should listen to your own advice. At least i have the decency to admit that i do not have a proof but you have not exactly showed any proof wither to support your claim, have you? Or did i miss it?
http://lessthanthreewords./2009/02/14/love-does-not-exist/
In your own words "what a load of bollocks!" , that link? Seriously? Is that the best you can come up with? Some exchange student´s account in Spain? So much for scientific evidence,huh?
In the post, the blogger wrote "But to be sure, the only man to whom I’ve said the words “I love you” since that day in Madrid that I spoke with Julian was, in fact, a great guy, and he did show me love instead of just saying empty words. Of this I fact I am very proud, and I hope that whatever lies in my future, I can maintain that any man whom I truly love treats me as though love does not exist."
Seems to contradict the NON-EXISTENCE OT LOVE, innit?
“We fall in love when our imagination projects nonexistent perfection upon another person. One day, the fantasy evaporates and with it, love dies.”
- Spanish philosopher Jose Ortega y Gasset
How does this say that love does not exist? The death of something implies that it had once lived. The Spanish dude said "Love dies" so that means it existed, does it not?

[quote author=Missy ★ B link=topic=710247.msg8701649#msg8701649 date=1310476868]Beautifully put![/quote]Danke shun although it was not an original thought lol. Cheers x

claremont:
Your views on how we came into existence is based on your religion which is Christianity. If you were a Muslim, Pagan, Atheist, Buddhist e.t.c., you will have radically different views on how we came into being.
You said "The existence of a counterfeit proves that an original exists", what a load of bollocks! Where did you arrive at that hypothesis from?! What is so difficult in proving that a concept that you believe in and is passionate about exists? Na wa for Nairalanders oh!

Christianity is not a religion but based on faith in a God who wants a relationship with man. Religion is the opposite. You have rejected various proofs, although non-tangible that has been offered in this thread and some of your points/theories have failed miserably. So i´ll leave you to it, because it comes across that your mind was made up and  nothing will change your presumption, defeating the aim for a debate.

claremont:
I don't know how we came into existence, science cannot proffer answers to everything; but what I do know is that if science cannot explain it, then neither can religion.

But science did proffer the way humans,animals etc came into existence. Theory of evolution and the Big Bang theory. What´s the matter hun, you didn´t know that with your wealth of knowledge? SHOCKING! Both are still theories by the way, and you know what theories mean,if you are familiar with the scientific process. If not, Google might help because i cannot be bothered hehe.
As i have said before, it takes more than love to make a marriage work so you cannot say that "love delusion"is responsible for failed marriages. I
Have you disproved my hypothesis then?
I kinda think that this thread was not made for or against love/love delusion but for Claremont to render his view and whoever contradicts him faces some kinda wrath, who knows? I might be wrong but i least i acknowledge the possibility, unlike some
"What is so difficult in proving that a concept that you believe in and is passionate about exists?"
THE SIMPLE FACT THAT NOT ALL THINGS ARE TANGIBLE( AH; EMOTIONS SPRING TO MIND)AND THE OP IS NOT READY TO ACCEPT THAT.

claremont:
I don't know how we came into existence, science cannot proffer answers to everything; but what I do know is that if science cannot explain it, then neither can religion.
You and I agree that most modern marriages with very few exceptions are based on the "love" delusion, everyone knows that. A simple Google search will reveal the failure rate of modern marriages, and the main reasons for the failure.
So were is the proof that "love" exists then?!

Christianity explains how we came into existence,you just chose to ignore it.  So "ALMIGHTY SCIENCE" cannot answer everything WHAT A LET DOWN! :S

Yep, most modern marriages are said to be based on love but quite an alarming lot are based on [b]lust [/b]actually.  Fine gal - i go marry am. Him get money-na dis be my husband. I don old  oo- make i marry quick quick. Chai, that lady know how to please person ooo-i swear i go marry am. I no wan hurt my papa or mama, so i go marry "Uncle´s" son. Him get connections so fit hook be up with the who is who for town, i go marry am. Him/She de live for jand/yankee oo, i go marry am etc. That´s not love. Love is defined in 1 Corinthians 13 but you don´t believe in God, tough, *Dear Lord, please let these scales fall aware for Claremont eyes in Jesus name,amen*

As i have said before, it takes more than love to make a marriage work so you cannot say that "love delusion"is responsible for failed marriages. I googled "main reason marriages fail" (http://www.google.com/search?q=main+reason+mariages+fail&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:de:official&client=firefox-a) and got this
http://www.divorce.com/article/top-10-reasons-marriages-fail
1. Financial Problems
2. Communications Problems
3.Family Problems
4. Sex Problems
5.Friend Problems
6. Addiction Problems
7. Abuse Problems
8. Personality Problems
9. Expectation Problems
10. Time Problems

http://marriage.families.com/blog/5-reasons-marriages-fail
5) Unrealistic Expectations
4)Fear of Intimacy
3) Marrying too soon
2) Lack of communication
1) Lack of trust
http://www.datehookup.com/Thread-124681.htm
http://healmarriage..com/2007/10/main-reason-marriages-fail_29.html
http://www.healtharticlesdirect.com/articles-about-mental-health-issues/main-reasons-why-marriages-fail/
You can check out the other sites cos i cant be bothered lol. Out of the top 5 results, LOVE WAS NOT CITED AS A REASON! SHOCKING :S!

I do not have any proof acceptable to you that love exists but:
The existence of a counterfeit proves that an original exists.The existence of hate proves that love does exist, in my simple opinion.

claremont:
I'm sorry if I don't comprehend the correlation between this biblical passage, and this argument , or maybe only the religious folks can understand it.

My point´s that you believe what you believe because you have been made to by man, just as Jesus said some were made eunuch´s by man,

If only all these "i know all scientists" knew that the great Isaac Newton in all his knowledge was a preacher, Albert Eistein who was of Jewish descent firmly believed in God and the Abrahamic covenant
.

Purist:
^^  Escapist!

Extend my greetings to your imaginary Scientists.  Cheers!

[quote author=Missy ★ B link=topic=710247.msg8701149#msg8701149 date=1310472809]You can't imagine the feeling. Little wonder I noticed his posts were full of inconsistencies . . .Oranges and apples. From A to B to Z to H. 
Lmao! Be nice!  [/quote]Me three/four lol. How many times does a sister/brother have to ask for answers to his/her questions?

claremont:
I strongly doubt it.

You never know till you try lol . And you haven´t answered my questions those questions fa  

I respect your opinions nonetheless but nonetheless, i leave you with these:

"Atheists may try to claim that Jesus was only a man and not God, and they may claim that Christianity doesn't work, but they cannot argue with the goodness and rightness of everything Jesus taught. He commanded a way of treating other people with love and compassion, and treating ourselves likewise".
Matthew 19:9-11“And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
The disciples said to Him,
“If the relationship of the man with his wife is like this, it is better not to marry.” 11But He said to them, “Not all men can accept this statement, but only those to whom it has been given. 12“For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother’s womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it.”

Have a good time in your LOVE free world  , who knows, you might not be in it for long  

claremont:
The burden of proof rests with those who claim the existence of a concept/deity to prove that it exists, and if they choose not to fullfil that burden, then it is logical and reasonable to conclude that the concept/deity in question does not exist. It's common sense really, no need to be a rocket scientist to figure that out.

Whoever thought that rocket science was hard, *drifts off and comes back*
So how did we come into existence then. If you believe in the big bang, what was the equal and opposite reaction to its occurrence? And please don´t say this is not the section to reply to such cos you´ve gotta admit, going off point is kinda norm and would help me understand your perspective, honestly.

Why should your argument be valid when you said greater than 50% of marriages fail in the world, when you only have proof for the statistics in the western world? So is the Western world the prototype for human behavior then?  Is it in the same western world that people meet and a few hours later, get married? *Vegas springs to mind e.g the sitcom friends - Ross and Rachel. In RL, Katie Price although that was a few months, Ivanka Trump, Playboy mogul etc*  
"This is not a generalization, but a product of widely available scientific papers. >50% of marriages in the western world end up in divorce"
I´ve assumed you have read the paper/journal that published this and my lazy bum cannot be bothered to find the paper and read it lol. Do me a favour, will you? Did the paper say that ALL these marriages were based on love?  

And whoever said all marriages were love marriages? Haven´t you heard/come across people that got married to preserve wealth or ensure the throne does´t leave the family (Checkout history of the British monarchy). The fact that a lot of marriages fail is not sufficient proof that love does not exists. It takes more that love to make a marriage work.(Commitment, compromise, respect etc are things that just came off the top of my head


P.S You might fall in love when you meet moi      

claremont:
The stats I use for my points are from published research findings copied and pasted from a simple Google search, anyone is free to Google these facts to confirm their authenticity.

Fair enough.
What about the answers to my other questions?

@ OP
"Thats right, I have come to the conclusion that love does not exist. I say this because if you look at the fail rate of marriage and every other relationship it is huge. >50% of all marriages fail. "
greater than 50% of marriages fail? Where did u get that statistic from and how reliable is it?

"This is not a generalization, but a product of widely available scientific papers. >50% of marriages in the western world end up in divorce"
Which one are we to believe now cos u just contradicted yourself?
In a world of approximately six billion people, how many westerners are there? Note China and India alone make up nearly half the world population?

"If God=Love and Love=God, then are persons who do not believe in a God, love-less?! God and Love are both not mutually exclusive, they both can't be proven"
Can you prove their non-existence?

Newton´s third law states "Every action has an equal and opposite reaction". I´m assuming you believe we exist cos of the big bang. If so, what was the opposite reaction that happened when the big bang occurred and BOOM, here we are?