Ellexy:






Na just small observation, no be crime so I must make that heaven.

No fear. I sight your name for the list. Dem write am with cursive sef.
Master list dey Bros J hand. Fire on!

-Lord

raumdeuter:

Her selection process was faulty

This was my post over 4yrs ago questioning what exactly Kamala adds to Bidens ticket. So you can see why she was inconsequential. The only thing she added was her gender and color. There were many Black women who would have done wayyyy better. Susan Rice or Stacy Abrams would have been better

Even many in the Democratic party were not convinced, That was why when Biden was asked to step down, some top Democrats were suggesting throwing the race open because they had little faith in her. The fear of a party civil war and optics of dropping a black woman was why they stuck to her

Biden picked her for the same reason Obama picked him and Harris picked Walz.
He didn't want a VP who would overshadow him.

Susan Rice was an easy pick and he went with this DEI merchant who punted every tough question on primetime TV.
Susan Rice will articulate her vision and offer granular details in a debate. She will hold press conferences and square off with hostile scribes. She will not be an inconsequential VP.

-Lord

raumdeuter:


Kamala was inconsequential does not make VPs inconsequential. Most of the policies especially the wars under W Bush were mostly pushed by Cheney

Pence was the face of the Evangelicals and most of the religious leaning policies in that admin were championed by Pence

That Kamala was largely useless does not mean others before her were

Kamala had the worst VP approval rating in history before she became the nominee.

Why did they think she had such an atrocious job performance review.
Pundits were openly saying she was dragging Biden down and should be replaced.

Kamala has been a disaster.
Whether it's because she was the last one in the room for the fatal Afghan debacle and so walked side-by-side with Biden and owns the administration's failures.
Or because as she now wants to insinuate, she essentially sat idly by while Americans were pummeled by sky-high inflation, horrible housing and insurance costs, a wide-open border and outrageous influx of illegal migrants, and new wars raged in Europe and the ME.

Her actions and inactions contributed to the disastrous situation that the plurality of Americans recognize and want to change.
And when she had the opportunity to give an account of her stewardship (or lack thereof), she opted to disrespect the American population by deliberately punting questions and offering meaningless platitudes. She refused to offer an apology for her role in putting Americans through a horrible economic malaise and failed to elucidate her plans to restore the low-inflation, low-unemployment, booming economy and safe borders under the pre-pandemic Trump administration that Americans remember fondly.

-Lord

SpaceX:
To me he did very well at the debate if I'm to score him on his performance 90% will be my grade. Accepting the abc news Show his willingness and courage to take up challenges and face his fears. At this point kamala doesn't have any rights to ask for a debate.

He did well at the ABC debate.
But at FOX, she would have been manhandled.
And if she didn't accept FOX, she would have had a townhall on ABC and cratered.

-Lord

SpaceX:
Remember she snubbed the fox news debate but he agreed on her own terms with abc news, the ball is in Trump's favor now so kamala can't pressure him for another one.

I think he can actually demand a debate with fair moderators and Kamala will have to acquiesce, since plaudits crowned her the victor of the first.
Arrange a debate on CSPAN and each candidate picks a moderator.
It's not difficult.

I don't think his latest statement of no third debate is final.
However, if Kamala for any reason cannot accept a debate at a neutral venue with at least one centrist moderator, then yea he should not agree to another debate.

There's no point having another debate on MSNBC, CBS, PBS, or even Fox with their liberal News staff (that's how Chris Wallace ambushed him).

In retrospect, he should have insisted on FOX then ABC.
If she didn't agree, they could have had competing townhalls. Imagine Harris on the 10th without Trump.
That'll have been way better for him.
I think the CNN debate disarmed him. He figured if CNN, his arch-enemies, could be fair to him; he should give ABC the benefit of a doubt.
That was a serious misstep.

-Lord

raumdeuter:


For someone who talks a lot about his education, Way too many people are reaching this consensus that he is Dumb as in Super dumb

Anyone who's ever in a contested position with him will arrive at that conclusion after no more than 5 exchanges.

-Lord

basilico:


What did Ohio AG say? Did he say it's bullshit? Homework for you.

He did not even watch the video.

Governor DeWine only said he referred to the position of the city mayor.
The same person who gave the statement to ABC.
I think that's fair.
The Ohio AG position is more relevant. And he basically said, there is something here.

The rest of the DeWine exchange talked about the massive immigration that's a pain for small towns like Springfield.
On the whole, this issue focuses on a liability of the Harris administration.
How do you move 15K migrants to a town of 58K people?

It's not the W he thinks this is.
But he's dumb so it's not a surprise.

-Lord

raumdeuter:


Here comes the arbiter of who is liberal and who is not

The absolute, universal authority on liberalism.

-Lord

bemeruca:


Conspiracy theory is a huge market, that's what Candace owens and Tucker Carlson are now swimming in which is a shame.

Even the eating pets thing, while tangentially correct, was amplified because the Right likes to step on rakes.

Just look at the rubbish Loomer shared.

We'd have all these bipartisan advantages with the economy, migration, foreign policy, and they'll descend on some BS that spooks normies.

-Lord

Okay, so what's with this macabre trend of college kids kidnapping and killing female collegemates?

-Lord

basilico:


I've edited. That map was put up by ABC

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/state-state-breakdown-abortion-laws-2-years-after/story?id=111312220

I encountered it in my research.

It was eye-opening.

-Lord

basilico:


Why did the moderators not call out all those 20 plus lies by Kamala? They knew she was lying , especially on the abortion matter, ABC had already reported on the states position on abortion via this map.Linsey knew about these states that have no abortion limit definitely

No fact checks for her.
No pressing her when she ducks questions.

Yay, we're impartial!

-Lord

bemeruca:


This is what they did:

This clip https://x.com/WesternLensman/status/1833869730735603919
may be the most egregious example of ABC debate moderators' direct actions/inactions to affect viewers’ perceptions of the information presented at the debate.

There are at least seven instances of this within a two-minute span.

This is not “bias."

It’s much worse.

This is direct, planned interference in the debate outcome. When moderators take on the role of “fact checkers" the inference is that the absence of a “fact check” confers validity to the non-fact-checked information.

When one side is repeatedly “fact checked,” while the other is not, that is a signal to the viewer that one side is not reliable and truthful, while the other side is.

The ABC moderators had their orders, and here you see those orders executed.

In this clip:

1) Trump says Pelosi is responsible for security at the Capitol. True. Muir intervenes on Kamala’s behalf by cutting him off with snarky retort, doesn’t acknowledging the validity of Trump’s statement, and immediately redirects to Kamala to set up her “answer" he knows is coming. This is direct action by Muir to affect the outcome of this exchange.

2) Kamala says she was at the Capitol on J6. She was there in the morning, but left to go to DNC HQ prior to the riot. Critical information is omitted. No fact-check.

3) Kamala says Trump incited a mob to attack the Capitol. False. Trump’s “peacefully and patriotically” comments are ignored. Trump is not charged with inciting violence. No fact check.

4) Kamala says that “some" police officers died on January 6. False. No fact check.

5) Kamala recites the Charlottesville “Fine People” hoax. This has been thoroughly and repeatedly debunked. No fact check.

6) Kamala recites the “stand back and stand by” hoax. This is designed to infer that Trump was ordering a “militia” to act on later orders, when he was clearly asking for a cooling of tensions. No fact check.

7) Kamala recites the “bloodbath" hoax. Trump was talking about the automobile industry, not violence. No fact check.

To quote Megyn Kelly on the ABC moderators:

"They did exactly what their bosses wanted." -western

Megyn Kelly is amazing.

She called out the hatchet job in real-time even before the debate ended.
Then she led the crusade and now that everyone has had a good rest, we're nodding in agreement.

Because at first, everyone just accepted that it was a given that the moderators will be biased.
But not to fact-check her once. Even on blatant lies that they know to be untrue.
Not to press her on questions, while they do so to Trump.

It was a disgrace.

-Lord

basilico:



Douglass Mackey, was sentenced today by United States District Judge Ann M. Donnelly to 7 months in prison for his role in a conspiracy to interfere with potential voters’ right to vote in the 2016 election for the Office of the President of the United States...............
........
Mackey conspired with other influential Twitter users and with members of private online groups to use social media platforms, including Twitter, to disseminate fraudulent messages that encouraged supporters of presidential candidate Hillary Clinton to “vote” via text message or social media...............
........ the defendant tweeted an image depicting an African American woman standing in front of an
"African Americans for Hillary” sign. The ad stated: “Avoid the Line. Vote from Home,” “Text ‘Hillary’ to 59925,” and “Vote for Hillary and be a part of history.”


7 months in jail for a tweet that only loonies would believe

The two moderators should see jail. There has to be a stop to such election interferences

The only way to prevent a reoccurrence is for both candidates to choose one moderator each in every future election debate.

Each candidate should get a partisan activist in their corner.

-Lord

raumdeuter:


when people have been accusing you of avoiding media and the next debate you had to get a tag team support to make your points, then maybe those critics were right

She is still not going to do a press conference or hardball interview.
She has not even tried to take a quasi victory lap by having a media interaction.

She went into a 3 v 1 debate and lost on substance.

-Lord

raumdeuter:


This is a fairly accurate summary of the debate

Trump was pressed more by the moderators and gave more answers,
Trump every answer was Immigration, Illegal immigrant and border wall

Harris gave no answer at all, You can watch the debate 100 times and not pick any answer on her policy positions

They ask a question, she throws around many words without actually hitting home on anything concrete
Harris was not fat checked by the moderators and it seemed that is backfiring now

The Harris candidacy has been from
1. Avoiding debates and the press
2. Went to a friendly press, where it was all recorded with her VP
3. Went to a debate where the moderators refused to ask hard questions, refused to press her for details and refused to fact check her

To the unbiased mind it shows she is not ready or she is been cuddled which I think is even worse

Trump has always said the mainstream media is against him for the past 9yrs, now to do this when over 70m people are watching

Partisan folks will likely claim their candidate won the debate, Genuine independents will be left wondering why the blatant bias

Now it makes sense why Kamala did not agree to the FOX debate scheduled earlier.
She wasn't prepping for a debate. She was rehearsing script lines for her role in a Broadway play.

The production, let's not call it a debate, was tailor-made for dems and left-leaning independents.
It was to gin up enthusiasm for their candidate, since this is shaping up to be a turn-out election.
The platitudes, the faces, the one-sided fact-checking.
That explains why no one on the left is saying anything about how she didn't properly answer the economy question.
Because they know that is a liability. It's okay if not preferred to skirt it.

What matters is that Trump was put off his game.
The Harris administration was not litigated even though she's the incumbent.
She essentially went into this production with a net perception of being a continuation of Biden's horrendous record and came out of it with no material change.

-Lord

bemeruca:


Kamala told more lies than he died even lying she is a gun owner who won't take people's guns away.

The question is: have you ever have a thought on your own?

China is arguably America's #1 adversary in 2024.

How many questions did the moderators ask Kamala the sitting VP about China?

A BIG FAT ZERO!

They just allowed her to lie without fact-checking. And even the pressing questions Americans needed answers to, they didn't have the decency to press her when she spurned the questions.

Worse, they pressed Trump on the border bill when Kamala brought it up. They fact-checked him.
But when Trump asked her to state her position on third trimester abortion, they insisted on moving on.
I don't think we can even call this an assist. This was a coordination.

-Lord

bemeruca:


There shouldn't be a next one. She lost, trump gained

I respectfully disagree. There should be another.
Kamala proposed it. Trump should go for it.
But only when at least one moderator is a centrist.

-Lord

bemeruca:


She will create an opportunity economy for libs 😂😂😂

What they hell is that she didn't explain. She just uses buzzwords to make it sound good.

Even Jake Tapper in his segment was like, "What was that"?

And Trump needs to prepare for the next one. When she has another empty word salad filled with platitudes and buzzwords; simply ask, how does that answer the question.

How can you be asked if things are better today and your answer is that you'll create an opportunity economy.
Like by all means avoid questions if you want. That's the staple of being a politician. But the moderator should press on it.
Let it be apparent that she wants to skate past the big issues that affect Americans.


-Lord

A40:
Lol. When the 'moderator' is tying you to white supremacist talk just a month prior, you already know what the business is

Let's ask ourselves a honest question. Who do you think those 'moderators' are gonna vote for? Your guess is as good as mine.

Do I think Trump could have done better? Yes but I will always respect a candidate that pulls up at the opps and gives his authentic takes than a shielded industry plant like Kamala who is stealing ideas from everyone including her opponents.

Where have you seen a candidate ever carefully curate appearances, no primaries, handpicked interviews, even the so-called debate no push backs. If that's not industry plant I don't know what is

He should agree to more debates.
Let Kamala pick one from MSNBC or wherever and let him pick one.
Her response to the economy question is proof she'll have dropped a word salad or tripped up if a moderator had pressed her to answer questions and fact checked her lies.
Someone should have told her. Charlottesville: That's a lie. It's been debunked. Project 2025: That's a lie. 800K jobs. That's a lie.
The economy: You didn't answer the question. Afghanistan withdrawal: You didn't answer the question.

I've had time to let the hoopla die down and review and reflect on the debate.
I was way too hard on Trump. He did better than ok.
The moderators were wrong with the most glaring fact-checks.
Ten US states allow abortion up to birth (they do not have a gestational ceiling). This is huge. I had to research this.
And ABC f*cking reported on it. But then during the debate, they straight up lied just to taint Trump.
Even the immigrant geese and pet thing was a fair characterization. Immigrants have killed geese, cats, and dogs in America.
Like that's factual.

I'm still waiting for a news conference and hardball interview from her.
Her last with Dana Bush was a preview of how a proper debate would have gone.
Dana pressed her several times. That was where the "my values haven't changed" blooper dropped.
Shake the tree and fruits will drop.
All the times Trump took her to task, he landed real chops and she was stumped. Go to Biden and get him to close the border. Are you okay with abortion in the 7th, 8th, 9th month.

Trump should insist on fair moderation.
Since the moderator is the arbiter of truth. He needs to have one playing for his team.
I actually think he should agree to two more debates, but with fair moderation. Two moderators. They pick one each.
Let's have a 2 v 2 fair fight since that's the game they want to play.

Once you fact-check her Project 2025 and abortion up to birth is legal in blue states, she's done.
Then pile on with more fact-checks about inflation, Afghanistan, her records. Like list all the things she changed her opinion on.
He can still flip this into ABC carried water for her. In a fair debate, she gets whacked.
It goes without saying that he should not take her bait. Punt that back to her if she tries it again. And f*cking listen to your advisors!

-Lord

Ibime:


VP cannot dissociate themself from President anymore than Tinubu could dissociate himself from Buhari in last elections. Leave that to your agents to do that online, but you cannot do that publicly even though we all know the Koko

Being realistic with yourself, there is no way you will have the ammunition Trump had and not bury the debate. Even on the economy, he had no stats, just making sweeping statements. You and I would have buried Kamala with stats. The fact she is perceived to have won, or it's even close, given the odds in Trump favour is testament to her debating skills, Trumps lack of it, or both.

The President is a lame duck one-term President that could have been charged and is indicted on corruption.
You have the entire media establishment on your side.
She will dissociate from him effortlessly if she was smart. Especially since Trump gave her the floor and the moderators dropped the assist.
She'll do it so well that members of her party will start publicly contemplating having her step in prematurely to drive home the change narrative she'd expertly craft.

To your second paragraph, Trump has lost 6 of 7 prior debates.
If Biden was coherent, Trump would have lost that single win. He wasn't answering questions.
The reason why many expected Trump to have it in the bag yesterday was because he had all of these missteps in the past.
And folks were like he has learned his lessons. He wouldn't fall for goading and start rambling. He wouldn't sink low to name-calling.
Well, we know how that turned out. What use is experience if you wouldn't apply it.

Trump handed her the W on a platter and the moderators helped her take it home.
This is so similar to 2020. When Biden just had Trump dropping weekly assists. From the coronavirus briefings to the public debate about masks and social distancing. When it was time to make his case in a debate, he tried to have a 2016 Republican primary redux of a shouting match after 100K Americans had died of COVID. That was a layup of the ages.
This is not on that level, but it is bewildering self-sabotage.

His save right now is that Kamala is such a bad candidate with a terrible record that people see him being undisciplined and they're like, "f*cking id**t", but I'll still have to vote for him because of my fossil fuel job or so migrants are not bussed into my town.

I don't think she's smart.
I don't think her team expected the stars to align so perfectly. If they did, they'd not have hedged with a second debate proposal just before the debate started. Yesterday's play was a, hang in there, throw bait, spout platitudes, and wait for the moderators to carry you. Trump saw that plan and went, "babe, are those limited edition baits?! F*ck outta here. I want all of them."

Sorry about the long read.

-Lord

A40:

Your bar and the general bar for Kamala is extremely low. That's why she appeared smart. She didn't win that debate IMHO as Trump's only real goof was the Healthcare part where he talked about plans and what not, if I were a voter that's the only part that I would raise my eyebrow.

We are talking about the least scrutinized Presidential candidate of all time. Just like the CNN and this ABC debate she faced zero pressure and zero scrutiny and so of course it's easy to come out smelling like roses. Everywhere she's faced any type of resistance she has been left cackling as usual

Trump was not as prepared and did not come with his fast ball as I expected him to be cos put ordinary me there I would cook SKamala stir fry for 5 minutes straight.

Anyone on this thread will cook Kamala.
Even Obri.gardo go turn her like barber chair.

Trump walked in there fixing to end another career but then was distracted by crowd sizes.
If I tell you say e no pain me eh.
By now we suppose don dey write eulogy. Race tied. Position better than 2016, 2020.
Weakest candidate in a generation on a compressed timeline.
Just hammer her record. No time for recovery. He start dey pursue butterfly.

-Lord

Ibime:


The main koko is Kamala is smart unlike what you made out. Her taking that debate is like Tinubu winning debate against Obi in present day Nigeria. Tinubu has no right to win any debate with the emotions people are feeling. Not that Dems are responsible for 2021-22 inflation anymore than Trump is responsible for 2011 to 2019 low interest rate environment , that's just the stage of the business cycle, but that's a matter for another day. Trump just has no right to lose the debate or even be close in the debate, given the conditions, unless his opponent is smart and wily.

That is a reach.

Trump just had to ignore the bait and press the moderators to be impartial. She'd have cratered.
That's how fragile her performance was.

You're trying to make this seem like 5D chess.
Everyone told Trump to ignore her attempts to goad him. Publicly. Before the debate.
That was her entire strategy. In fact, if actual smart folks like Shapiro or Klobuchar were on the podium, they'd have dissociated themselves from Biden and scored an actual win that'd tilt voters' preference.

Biden already goaded Trump into side talk about golf in the last debate.
That was a senile Biden. Is that your yardstick for smarts?

-Lord

bemeruca:


He should relax. He should not be agreeing to debates likes this knowing how the network will be towards him.

To take it and come out later to say their licence should be taken sounds like kamala harris

We are still in this race solely because we had three years of him pre-pandemic and it was better.
That's it.

And somehow he is still doing his best to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
Yes, ABC News was a disgrace. But is that news. Is that a surprise.
We knew what ABC was going to do, he had 50 days to prepare, and yet he was rattled by crowd sizes.

Kamala did not have to pull some complex, 5D chess strategy.
You're boring. That's all it took. You're boring.
It's astonishing really!

-Lord

A40:


https://x.com/RealSaavedra/status/1833758511542526276

Compare and contrast. Just look at how many times Kamala was pressed vs Trump

Trump walked into an ambush. He was definitely caught off guard by the 'moderators' being pro Kamala. I think he did well enough considering the circumstances. He landed some jabs but not a lot you can do with a biased umpire officiating the fight.

If they do debate again Trump really needs to be surgical and keep it short and sweet. He's a natural talker and can sometimes talk himself into trouble. Kamala is an intellectual featherweight. This is someone that got destroyed by Tulsi Gabbard ffs

Trump cannot do that.
Do you really think no one told him to avoid her baits? Even during the breaks.
He decided not to listen to them.

The thing is that we have way slicker candidates on the conservative bench.
But the core of the voting block do not trust them like they do Trump.
They know Trump will build the wall. They know he will carry out deportations. They know he will drill baby drill and be pro-fossil fuels. They know he will avoid wars.

So it's like a package deal. He has this great record, but all you need to trip him up is say he draws small crowds. His ego will not let him be effective. But if you bring in a smooth talker like Vivek, Rubio, or even Pence; the base will not trust that they'll follow through.
A second debate would be better for him. He tends to listen only after his stubbornness blows up in his face. So he'll finally listen to his debate advisors, like he only listened to them in 2020 after the first was a dumpster fire. But that's 4 wasted weeks when we could have started running away with this election.

The positives to draw is that Kamala ducked and weaved and he laid into her the handful of times he comported himself.
I'm confident that by next week, the debate is old news and we're back to "Kamala, why did you you push for tax-funded gender change treatments for illegal migrants in 2019".

In all, he did okay. The only reason why the race is close while he has the advantage on economy, immigration, and foreign policy is that he has flaws and last night one flaw floated to the top. Trump has an ego is no surprise to 90% of Americans. But it'll be a short drag because Americans will go out to the grocery stores and still see the high prices. Migrants will commit more crimes, stream across the border, and be given handouts while Americans rack up credit card debt and can't afford housing. The realities do not change because you got Trump to bloviate about how much his father left him.

American' are facing real crises and Harris and her tag team masquerading as moderators fixated on the candidate Trump. And failed to make the case about fixing the current mess tied to her administration. Her debate performance will have about as much effect as her DNC speech. Both were celebrated, but the convention bounce did not happen.

-Lord

IjeBos:


It is one forum of people who said they were "undecided". If anyone watched that debate and said that debate pushed them to vote for Trump, they were never undecided.
Use you brain.
This is the front page from National Review, one of the premier RIght Wing sites.
You can tell how bad a night Trump just by the headlines they wrote.
If it were even close, they would spin it that Trump did ok. In these headlines they aren't even trying that. They are just arguing, basically does it matter.

It is REUTERS!

i have to repeat. IT IS REUTERS!

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/some-undecided-voters-not-convinced-by-harris-after-debate-with-trump/ar-AA1qmVYz

-Lord

raumdeuter:

Before the debate yesterday this was reported


After the debate yesterday, How much has this number shifted? Kamala avoided answering many of the questions posed

I am certain there will be some numbers shift in favor of Harris.
It'll be muted in the coming weeks though because as you said, Kamala avoided answering many questions.

Standard polls from Monday referencing data from mid this week (today through Fri/Sat) will show more granular data.

-Lord

bemeruca:


Just so you know they have killed the link

It's still up.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/some-undecided-voters-not-convinced-by-harris-after-debate-with-trump/ar-AA1qmVYz

-Lord

bemeruca:


It is not negative towards Trump, so IjeBos, whose body is powered by hatred, will IjeBos.

Not surprising.

Dude transformed into an emergency conspiracy theorist.

-Lord

IjeBos:


Do you think Harris was vague esp. compared to Trump? Name one policy detail Trump gave last night. Healthcare, he had some plans he may look at even after 9 years. Economy, will increase some tariffs(which is largely bullshit). Abortion ban, won't answer. Russia/Ukraine, will just end the war. How? Who knows.

And, so I guarantee you that some of those 'Undecided' weren't really undecided. It's easy to tell when undecided voters are lying when they say dumb shit like that. Republicans are good at manipulating those things. Every time I hear one of those things, I can tell the plants and generally a few days later a story comes out confirming it. Actual polling will come out in a few days.

Use your brain, instead of trying to find things bolster the nonsense you want to believe.

Ije, this is not about me.

I'm simply sharing what undecideds told REUTERS.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/some-undecided-voters-not-convinced-by-harris-after-debate-with-trump

Now you're trying to be a conspiracy theorist. That's the tag you use when I contest things.

-Lord

bemeruca:


This was what I expected. The debate could have been a home run for her given her buddies are the moderators on a network that spew 80% favorable coverage of her and 95% negative coverage of Trump, yet she is losing voters based on the economy on CNN poll.

She almost succeeded.
But somehow Trump was still able to shade her about inflation, the border, Afghanistan, her flip-flopping.
He could have been way better but he did enough to prevent a home run for her.

-Lord

IjeBos:


Are you well?
Do you think you are going to brute force your gaslighting onto people?
Anyone with eyes watched the debate. And with a brain saw Trump lost and lost badly.
Trump lost.
But worse, it wasn't that he just lost, he looked unhinged. He looked incapable of being President.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/some-undecided-voters-not-convinced-by-harris-after-debate-with-trump

It's Reuters m*ron!
REUTERS.

Half thought Harris was vague. 6 of 10 undecideds lean Trump after watching the debate.

-Lord