DeepSight: The point is if we are to presume all that is in the Bible to be true, we should also presume true the many passages that outrightly deny the idea that Jesus is God. Including his own denials of same.
DeepSight: I think I may have touched on this point with you in the past, so at the risk of repeating myself - the source of all things cannot be physical. This is because -
1. The source of all things must be eternal in the past 2. A thing which is eternal in the past must be immutable 3. Physical things - such as the universe - are mutable 4. Therefore the source of all things must be intangible 5. Ergo the universe cannot be the source of all things
I suspect this may be problematic for you - but its very simple and logical really.
Of course it is problematic because it is at best speculation. You have no evidence outside of the universe itself. So where do you get the basis for thinking there is a nonphysical source of the universe?
Here's a trick - start from simplicity and dont bother yourself with what "most people say." And in all simplicity, the most fundamental definition of God is that of creator or source of all else that exists.
That simplicity leads me to call it nothing other than the universe. I have no reason to call it a god becuase I have simplified it.
Do you consider that that microscopic organisms can be beings? They certainly can fit into your tripartite conditions. Now, lets take it further. Is it not the case that groups of microscopic and even unicellular organisms come together to form multicellular beings? You yourself, in terms of your body, are an agglomeration of trillions of different kinds of cells, each of which has staggering components and factors built into it. Now one step further again - when you talk about a mind and will - is there not such a thing as a hive mind? A group mind and will, as happens with say, ants or bees? Now one step further again, so you see where I am going - if all this is true, why is it necessarily the case that God as a being must be an individual in the way we understand and use the word?
No i don't consider them beings since they have no minds or wills.
Hive minds only exist in scifi. Bees and other eusocial animals have "organised" cooperation.
It doesn't matter what makes up the individual as long as those 3 attributes can be demonstrated.
Even if everything written in the Bible were true, it would not ground Jesus being God. The self same Bible argues powerfully against the precept in dozens of passages.
Well he said IF and I am willing to grant the supposition. Interpreting it as accent to the belief will be a failure of reasoning on the persons part not mine.
Actually it does argue in favour of it. It is modern believers who have turned their god into some unimaginable thing. The Old Testament had the god appear on the earth physically several times.
DeepSight: Alright. To be clear, here is your question -
Because the most critical aspect of the definition of, and understanding of the word "God" throughout history has been that which is the source of all other existence and life.
I extract herewith a definition from the dictionary -
god noun ˈgäd also ˈgȯd pluralgods Synonyms of god 1 God : the supreme or ultimate reality: such as a : the being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped (as in Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and Hinduism) as creator and ruler of the universe Throughout the patristic and medieval periods, Christian theologians taught that God created the universe … —Jame Schaefer … the Supreme Being or God, the personal form of the Ultimate Reality, is conceived by Hindus as having various aspects. —Sunita Pant Bansal b Christian Science : the incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit : infinite Mind 2 or less commonly God : a being or object that is worshipped as having more than natural attributes and powers specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality Greek gods of love and war 3 : a person or thing of supreme value had photos of baseball's gods pinned to his bedroom wall 4 : a powerful ruler Hollywood gods that control our movies' fates
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You can see the very first line which I have highlighted. No matter how you spin it, and no matter all the thousands of ridiculous attributes which different people add to it, the fundamental idea has always been that of an ultimate creator or source of all else that exists. There. That is why such a source is called "God."
Now can you answer my own questions so we can get down to the issue of it being a "being." Those questions are not to argue - they are only to get definitions right so we dont get twisted as we did with objective and subjective morality.
Well then I call it the universe and have no reason to think of it as a god or a type of being.
DeepSight: Alright. Lets examine a number of things first.
1. Must a God be a being in the way we understand beings? 2. What is a being in the first place? What qualifies as a being?
1. I do not know what a god is supposed to be. Most people say they are beings but the attributes dissolve into incoherence so it is not clear to me what a god is suppose to be.
2. A being in the way we a talking about it here is an existing individual with a mind and will. So the sun may exist but is not a being. Humans, animals and potentially other forms of life we do not yet know about but have these 3 attributes are beings.
FreeIgboho: If everything happened as stated in the Bible would you believe Jesus is God?
If there was evidence they did, most likely i would.
By the way you were asked what would convince you that someone is God, not whether it is incoherent or not. Everything ought be incoherent to you not just God, seeing that you're on this speck of dust of a planet, not knowing where you are, why you are here, or if you're actually here, and given very limited senses, and very limited brain that can easily be manipulated. That's why you were not asked about coherence.
If that person can do something that according to the framework of belief that only a god could do like make the sun to "stand still" without killing everything on the earth, I would be convinced they are probably what they say they are.
Everything is not incoherent because I have a sane mind that can evaluate reality with good epistemological frameworks. Yes my brain can be manipulated but it is because there are good epistemological frameworks that we know that. If you have faulty epistemology and are unable to properly evaluate reality thats a you problem not an us problem.
DeepSight: But you surely know that in several world views such objects are considered living beings.
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Panpsychism: This is the most direct and widely used term in contemporary philosophy for the view that mind or a mind-like aspect is a fundamental and ubiquitous feature of reality. It posits that consciousness or subjective experience is present, in some form, in a wide range of natural entities, including those traditionally considered inanimate, such as fundamental particles.
Hylozoism: This philosophical doctrine holds that all matter is alive or animated. While closely related to panpsychism, hylozoism often emphasizes the "life" aspect of matter, whereas panpsychism focuses more specifically on "mind" or "consciousness." Historically, early Greek philosophers like Thales are often described as hylozoists.
Animism: This term is primarily used in anthropology of religion to describe belief systems where objects, places, and creatures all possess a distinct spiritual essence. Animism perceives all things—animals, plants, rocks, rivers, etc.—as being animated, having agency and free will. While it shares the idea of "aliveness" or "spirit" in inanimate objects with hylozoism and panpsychism, it is generally discussed within a religious or spiritual context rather than as a purely philosophical theory of consciousness.
press9jatv: na to used the car to cruise around. She has a taste nii
By the time rust and Lagos taxi drivers show her shege she go know. Shey you know you can't panel beat the body the way they do it here in Naija? You canot use putty filler or spray the car.
"First Lady to own a cyber truck in Nigeria. My new baby is here. We can all agree that it’s been a long time no pampering. I have been so stressed lately, I decided to spoil myself with this brand new baby, it was absolutely love at first sight."
She also shared another video showing when the vehicle was brought to her with a truck. She captioned the video:
"Special delivery to the First Lady to own a cyber truck in Nigeria."
DeepSight: I have to agree. This is the problem. So much so that they even add the most petty human attributes such as jealousy and anger.
The source of all things can indeed be called God thats not a problem. The problem us anthropormorphising it.
It was considered a god in a great many cultures.
Remember I told you that for me, even God can only be natural. Being the deault state of root reality.
You didn’t answer the question "why call it a god"? Calling the sun a god didn’t make it a being, it remained what it is so what does calling this source of everything a god change?
DeepSight: If by God we mean a source of all else that exists, that is not incoherent, and that is the fundamental idea most people have in mind when they speak of God.
Except they go further and add all these attributes to the god such that even when speaking amongst themselves they cannot agree on what the god(s) are.
BTW why call the source of all things a god (anthropomorphised one at that). The sun is the source of heat and energy for our solar system does that make it a god? Why can't the source of all things just be some natural phenomenon?
FreeIgboho: You can respond VERY briefly. What would it take to convince you that someone is God (bearing in mind that you don't have the foggiest idea what/who God is nor can you in any way describe him or any of his attributes). Personally, if ALL that happened with Jesus happens with ANY person I'd accept that the person is God.
The bolded is why I am an Igtheist. The concept of gods in general is incoherent. It is baby talk trying to masquerade as serious thought.
Nothing happened is the point. Those things are just embellished stories.
Nigerian music icon 2Baba (formerly 2Face Idibia) has stirred conversations online after stating that "a man is not built to be sexually with just one woman."
In a candid remark, he claimed that while a man can deeply love one woman, being with only one partner sexually goes against male biology.
The statement has since sparked mixed reactions across social media, with some agreeing and others calling it controversial.
LoLz. Natasha shey you dey hear bah. Guy man don already line up the next women after you.
OLAADEGBU: What’s the point of modifying your behaviour in order to stay within acceptable ranges if you truly believe the is no God to judge you when you die?
Because I am alive now and need to live with other human beings. Plus I actually have empathy not the pretend compassion y'all pretend to have.
OLAADEGBU: William Lane Craig has chosen to go on his own lane, that means he has derailed. You can keep him as we have many scientists that are true Christians who trust on the infallible word of God.
njelrapheal: as I did not know about it, the only way I can know is through that inert awareness one that everyone has I am not sure if I have unlocked mine fully.
Humans have no such awareness. If we had I won't be asking you, just like I don’t ask anyone else how do I know when I am cold or hungry.
FreeIgboho: (Please DO NOT come close to insulting anyone's beliefs on this thread, be it directly or indirectly, overtly or covertly. Especially do NOT talk bad about Jehovah's Witnesses or Moslems. Mods please help us ban anyone who violates this)
Reasons why Jesus is DEFINITELY God the Son of God:
1) Thousands of years before he was born prophets prophesied that God was coming to visit us. Old Testament (OT) is full of references to his coming. No other person in the history of mankind has this happened with.
2) Before he came a mighty prophet was sent to prepare his way. John the Baptist (JohnTB) said that was all he came to do. And that he (a mighty prophet) was not fit to untie Jesus' shoe.
3) At his baptism a dove descended on him and a voice from heaven (identified as God the Father), proclaimed, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased," (Matthew 3:17)
4) When he finally came, he himself said he was the long-awaited God and did things God would do - he was after people's souls not money, he forgave sins, accepted worship, raised people from dead, and said he himself was the truth, the life, and the righteousness, and no one came to his Father except through him.
5) He said you'd know he's truly God the Son because his words would never pass away
6) He said he'd raise himself from the dead, and did just that and in such a way that the wrappings used to wrap the body were NOT disturbed
7) Thousands of years after his death he's being worshipped as God and his words have never passed away - exactly as he said!
8} He is worshipped interchangeably with the Father. No other person has been so worshipped in human history.
9) The Father has been pleased with his worshippers and showered them with blessings. They also worship and call on the Father constantly and he accepts their prayers.
10) He is alive and active in people's lives TODAY! ----------------
Before you dispute any of these remember:
1) You don't have the foggiest idea what God is like, nor can you imagine what he is like.
2) You don't have the foggiest idea what God's attributes are. So forget all the attributes you have in your head - they were assigned by man. You simply don't have the foggiest idea what God's attributes are or are not. So forget all attributes you assign to God!
3) If God is explained to you as straight forward and quite uncomplicated, you can be sure they are giving u man's version of God, NOT God as he is.
4) God exists in a dimension you can neither visualize, explain, nor comprehend.
5) So how do you know God? The ONLY way is the way it happened with Jesus. ANYONE that all those things happened with is God the Son of God. You can't know him any other way. You can't know him by logic, reasoning, or attributes. THAT IS THE ONLY WAY!!
This sounds so satirical. You must be having a laugh.
DeepSight: How are nature and spirituality mutually exclusive?
Because spiritual is generally defined as nonphysical, nonmaterial phenomenon. This is opposed to natural things which are physical or material based phenomenon. Spiritual things are said to be independent of natural things so it is impossible that it both spiritual and natural.
OLAADEGBU: You have no choice than to lie unless you are not consistent with your belief system.
I am more consistent than you in my methodology. You on the other hand are consistent in spreading misinformation because your methodology is full of poo.
Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus Is DEFINITELY God * by LordReed(m): 9:21am On Jul 02, 2025
