₦airaland Forum

DeepSight:
Is it not enough to challenge someone's sanity?

LoLz. You see am too bah. Na wa o.

Moremii:
...my approach to it is highly unconventional, haha.

For instance, I completely reject the Yahweh deity worshipped in the mainstream. To me, he's a fraud and deceiver and he's the one Christ came down to preach against. This doesn't make me an unbeliever though. I still insist that I'm a Christian anyway, because that's literally what I am: a believer of Christ.

I'm sure I've already confused people with my first paragraph and so this is why I've decided to create a thread to discuss what Christianity actually is, because many people think they know what it is, when they actually don't. Everything I will say here is not necessarily strange or original per se, but the average Christian in the mainstream probably (and ironically) considers all of it to be blasphemy. At any rate, I don't see it being spoken about much on here and so I'm writing all this for anyone who, like I once was, is currently filled with nagging questions about his/her faith that just won't go away, no matter the amount of apologetic gymnastics.

Questions will be appreciated all the same. My response time might be erratic because of my irregular schedule, but I'll try my best keep up.

Just coming to the thread so I dunno if you've answered this. Are you into some kinda Gnostic traditions or writings?

tctrills:
Oga, your Job was to produce a text comparable to the bible that meets the standards I set. You have not done that; rather, you choose to talk about Christians. Can we please return to the topic? Please produce your 3rd entry.

I am done with you.

tctrills:
Lol
We are talking about the bible, not about Christianity or sects of Christianity. Don't be too eager to change the topic. We are comparing two sets of scripture, so don't lose concentration.

So, please, would you present your 3rd book? I am waiting. But then, if you want this to be a discussion about Christians and no longer about the bible, all you needed to do was to let me know.
Present your book, biko.

LoLz! Are you not the one who wrote this:

tctrills:
Hinduism is not a single unified religion like Christianity or Islam.

It’s a civilizational tradition with multiple schools of thought (Vedanta, Samkhya, Yoga, Bhakti, Tantra, etc.), gods, practices, and texts.

Think of it as a federation of beliefs under a broad cultural and metaphysical umbrella.

It is clear that you are just disingenuous.

See what I said, like a brick wall he is still referencing the Harry Potter remark. I don't waste my time with deliberately obtuse people.

Image123:
For probably the first time, i am likely in agreement with her. You only switched what you worship.

What do I worship?

Lemme guess you watched Jordan Peterson and are following his nonsense definition of worship. I sincerely hope you prove me wrong on this.

tctrills:
Bro, I am through with my research, and I can boldly tell you that your first book, Harry Potter, and your second book do not meet the test. I will be waiting for your 3rd entry.

Below are reasons your second book clearly failed the test.
The Vedas and early Upanishads focus on a cosmic, abstract principle called Brahman (the ultimate reality).

The Bhagavad Gita and Puranas introduce and emphasize personal deities like Vishnu, Shiva, Krishna, and Dev

Hindu scriptures do not have one central narrative or a single God in the same way the Bible does.

Instead:

Some traditions are monotheistic (e.g., Vaishnavism sees Vishnu/Krishna as the supreme God),

Others are henotheistic (worship of one god without denying others),

And others are monistic (all gods are manifestations of one impersonal Brahman).

Different texts often reflect different theological perspectives, sometimes even contradicting each other.

Hinduism is not a single unified religion like Christianity or Islam.

It’s a civilizational tradition with multiple schools of thought (Vedanta, Samkhya, Yoga, Bhakti, Tantra, etc.), gods, practices, and texts.

Think of it as a federation of beliefs under a broad cultural and metaphysical umbrella.

So some texts feel like different religions with different gods, yet they coexist within the broader Hindu worldview.

Thank you for making me learn more. I am waiting for your 3rd entry, or do you want to contest this?

Bwahahahahaha! I have just burst out laughing at the sheer tone deafness of this response. It's the classic case of the pot calling the kettle black.

Every single objection you have is also levered against Christianity glaringly. Are you going to ignore the gargantuan number of denominations and sects of Christianity? Are you going to ignore all the books of the Bible that you don't believe in? LMAO!

Na wa o.

Also you must be very deliberately obtuse or disingenuous to continuously reference things that were clarified several times. How many times do I need to tell you the Harry Potter reference was not an example of a book written 2000 years ago? Holy Andromeda it's like talking to freaking brick wall.

DeepSight:
Worse than this, a great many modern Israelis are in fact simply Eastern Europeans.

That's right. I was just focused on the origins and how it differs from the Bible stories. Is there any Jew alive who isn't of mixed heritage?

FreeIgboho:
So Israelites have been fools all this time reading the Torah and Tanakh!
Who woulda thunk it!!

LoLz. Yes they are begin to wake up. The archaeological evidence they themselves are finding is they are an offshoot of Canaanities so there was no Exodus or Canaanite conquest. Dey there make pant dey wear you.

Kobojunkie:
The absence of a belief is not same as the absence of religion.

2. You could too.

Yes and that is not what I am asking.

LoLz. You say the darnedest things.

Kobojunkie:
This does not compare to what I stated, though. There is a spectrum as far as belief in the existence of a deity across religious people. The absence of a belief does not negate religiosity. A TV is still a TV whether it is off or on.

How is no religion a religion?

It's still a TV so I guess you sit down and stare at a blank TV.

FreeIgboho:
So OT and people of it also never existed? OK o

Dude if your evidence is the stories of the Bible especially the OT then you are more lost than I thought.

plaetton:
Science, by it's very nature ,never assumes a position of all-knowing. Science, let me repeat, is an series of questions .
Do we know more about the universe that we did 50yrs ago. We certainly do.
Will we know more in the next 50yrs ? Certainly yes.
If we assume your type of fantasy, speculative fantasy, that there must be underlying intelligence beyond our material understanding of the universe, then we stray from our honest persuit of truth. We introduce a bias, a pseudo- religious bias into our ongoing enquiry.
If is better to start from a position of uncertainty and work towards certainty than it is to go from certainty to uncertainty.

If you think that there are gaps in our understanding of the Theory of evolution, I wonder what you would said about it 150yrs ago .

Well said bruv.

DeepSight:
Beautiful and delightfully written. You took the red right out of my school of thought. It's exactly how I think, and it's heartwarming to read this from another.

@ LordReed, find this interesting? Re: other universes? Sound familiar?

@ AlbertNewton. I see what you did with your moniker. Einstein and Isaac.

I am all for wonder of how vast our universe and how mindbending our very existence is. What I am not for is attributing it to unseen entities.

tctrills:
From your feel you don't even know so much about the Hindu scripture or scriptures so it is funny you use it. I will read about it and reply you.

LoLz. So what if I don't know much about it? You choose the funniest things to argue about.

tctrills:
Let's begin with the name of the Hindu scripture.
Tell me the authors.
What was there message.
The theme?
What's the span?
Then we would consider the controversies amongst the various writers.
I honestly know nothing about the Hindu scripture please educate me

The Hindu scriptures are composited of multiple book just like the Bible. The foundational text are the Vedas then there is the Principal Upanishads, the Agamas and the Bhagavad Gita as well as Bhagavata Purana and Yajnavalkya Smirti. There is also the Shastras, Sutras, Tantras, Puranas, Itihasas, Stotras, Subhashitas and others.

Hindu scriptures primarily convey messages about dharma (righteous conduct), karma (action and consequence), moksha (liberation from the cycle of rebirth), and the interconnectedness of all beings. They emphasize the importance of self-realization, knowledge, and devotion to God.

Written over the span of about 1800 years.

Why are we considering the controversies amongst the writers are we going to consider the Bible books you don't believe in?

I am not Hindu so anything I can tell you you can equally find for yourself. My primary aim is to show you that the special pedestal you place the Christian Bible on is unfounded. Anything else you can read up on your own.

tctrills:
So we both agree that Harry Potter does not meet my conditions now to your next book the Hindu scripture, again doesn't meet the conditions I gave. I did not ask you to name me a book older than the bible that is still used today. Please read again the conditions and attempt the question the third time.

LoLz. Which condition does the the Hindu scriptures not fulfil? Age or multiple authors over a long span?

AlbertNewton:
By describing such instincts as "inexplicable", is that based on your own ignorance of what the explanation is or are you making a claim that the instincts cannot be explained by anyone ?
Are you trying to come to a logical understanding of the underlying processes (physical, biological and chemical) behind such complex instincts or you've already concluded that there is no plausible explanation and want to make a point out of that conclusion ?
Have you tried to make findings on what relevant experts have to say about the "inexplicable" instincts or you are more interested in what Nairalanders (many of whom most likely know little about evolutionary biology and genetics) have to say ?
While many natural phenomena are clearly complex to understand, do you believe it is possible to gain some scientific, logical understanding of such phenomena and do you believe that scientists have already made a lot of progress in understanding the universe we live in ?

Your answers to the questions above will guide how I engage with the thought-provoking topic you have created.

Good answer. DeepSight I couldn't have said it better. I am confused why you think these instincts are inexplicable.

tctrills:
I asked you to give me a book that was written over a span 2000 years by over 60 writers and still keeps it's theme and the best you could come up with is Harry Potter. You just made my point, you have nothing to compare with the bible. Nothing comes close.
Please take some time, do some research and come up with something better than Harry Potter.

Some how it seems you prefer to fight over inanities than actually progressing a conversation. I already said I was not giving Harry Potter as an example of a book written 2000 years ago. I mean why are things like this hard for you to grasp? The point was writing around a theme is not special.

Nor is the age special. We have been doing this stretching back since the dawn of writing.

But since you are asking for a book from 2000 years ago then let's look at the Hindu scriptures. The oldest was written at about 1800BCE which makes it even older than any book of the Bible and is still in use today (almost 4000 years later) by more than 1 billion Hindu so I dunno why you think the age of the Bible or the number of authors are special.

FreeIgboho:
That's just an attribute of humans. But it doesn't matter. What matters is that I believe based on evidence NOT based on the very limited and unknowing reasoning of humans, which is what your unbelief is based on!

LoLz. What evidence? A story? Bwahahahahahaha!

elated177:
El Elohe Yahshrael!

I had to ask that question because the issue of people advising others to worship their ancestors is becoming something else.

What impact or influence do the dead have on the living?

Who/what is a god?
What separates a supposed god from a human being?
What are the factors that make such god worthy to be worshipped?

Can those who call for ancestral worship answer and explain without sentiments?

El Elohe Yahshrael! Hallelu YAH!

But you believe Jesus DIED, rose and went to heaven exercise power. What is the difference between you and ancestor worship? Nomenclature?

Martinsmine:
I have available ... Drop Location

26 more characters needed...

Abuja.

Na wa for characters needed. To just state my location I need 40 characters. LoLz.

DeepSight:
In addittion to what Reed has said, the truth is that because the Roman Curia carefully editted the contents of the Bible, it was possible to maintain certain themes while excluding much that was contrary.

Ask him if he believes in the books of the Apocrypha or any of the other gospels and Christian writings that didn't make it into the 66 book compendium assembled by committee.

tctrills:
So Harry Potter is the book you feel meets the standard of the bible. Please explain how Harry Potter even comes close. I don't even see your point here please throw more light

Dude I just used Harry Potter to illustrate a point. Writing about a particular theme has been done from the time we as humans started writing. I am not seeing why you think it is a reason the Bible is divinely inspired. People from all over the world write books on particular themes without meeting themselves why do you think geographical spread makes the authourship of the Bible remarkable? Are you saying subsequent authors never read the works the authors who came before them? Which can't be the case since they do make references to the past books so I at loss to why you find this compelling.

FreeIgboho:
I don't, neither do you. But the one person in all of human history who was foretold hundreds of years before his coming. And when he came had attributes we associate with God, said he knew and told us. Who is nonsensical, the person who believes him or the person who doesn't believe him based on nebulous "incoherent" determined by his unknowing self?

The person who believes while telling me his brain cannot comprehend reality is the nonsensical one.

tctrills:
There is war in the middle east because Samson killed the Philistines??

Is that what I said?

It's clear you are looking for every means to change this topic. You blame Samson for the problems in the middle east.

LoLz. Not even close to what I said or meant. I said the Samson killing Philistines story does not bring anybody peace. Can you sincerely claim that people read the story of Samson decide that peace with their neighbours is the best course of action?

I followed up by saying that it is part of the reason there is problem in the Middle East. Are you going to claim that the fighting in that story and the fighting in real life are not intertwined? That there is not a tradition the has insisted that the Levant was a gift of the god Yahweh to his so called chosen people Israel? A tradition that purportedly drove Samson to be a champion for his people? Come on now don't feign modesty now. You people believe they were commanded to slaughter all the people that were there before, why are you now clutching your pearls like an old white woman.

Again, you completely miss the point. Even if Islam overtakes Christianity, it doesn't remove the fact that the bible despite the imperfections of the writers, despite the extreme persecution of the early Christian remains the most influential book on earth. This is proof that it's writers were inspired. The bible was not even supposed to be this powerful. It couldn't be stopped by Roman oppression. Very few books have had such impact.

It is the most influential because some of the most powerful empires of our history pushed this book on the point of a sword.

Yes you final point is very correct, popularity is not indication of truth. So let me ask you, how do you know eternal truths?

I dunno what you mean by eternal truth. Tell me what you mean with an example or two and maybe I an tell you.

Since you can't even recognize eternal truths, I was not even making that argument.

Eh, Well I dunno what you so yeah can't recognise what I dunno.

My point here was that despite the flaws of it's writers, the bible remains an inspired work. We can argue if it was inspired by God or not but the wise words of Jesus Christ shines forth here. By their fruits ye shall know them.
The fruits of the bible are beyond anything human. It is clearly inspired.

There are other inspirational books, what the Bible has going for it that it was pushed by the largest world power the world has seen so far and before that some other powerful empires also pushed it. Do you think if the Indians had been the ones in the place of say the British Empire you would see the same widespread nature of the Bible? No you won't. For example you can see it in all the places where the British Empire made scant or no ininroads, the Bible doesn't have a strong presence there eg China, Japan, Mongolia, most of Northern Africa, the Middle East, etc.

I can argue that the Quran was inspired but by who?

All religious text have the same sort of inspiration: the need to preserve culture and tradition. None of them are divinely inspired , they are all the works of men.

tctrills:
I have responded above but something else came to my mind.
To determine if the bible was inspired of God or is the work of conspiring men, we have to compare it to other books written by men.
So which book do you know that is over 2000 years old, written over the span of 2000 years by up to 60 authors and has the same consistency, and theme as the bible?
The writers were at different locations especially the new testament and yet reading it will lead you to one central message.
No work of man comes close.
This is the work of God and it is marvelous in our eyes.
If you can produce another book that meets or exceeds all the conditions stated, I will agree with you that the bible is not inspired of God.

This is funny. It is like claiming all the people who are writing about Harry Potter apart from JK Rowling are divinely inspired. Dude writing about a singular theme is not as rare as you seem to be implying. LoLz.

tctrills:
LordReed your son is not dropping this oh.

Nothing concern me again o!

DeepSight:
It can be tiresome. One discussant has been using ChatGTP to discuss with me all day.
I dont say you cant source something from AI oh, but first, indicate so at the end of your quote, and also do not make it your walking stick or tool for all discussion and reasoning on a subject. We are not here to engage robots and anyone of us could equally use AI if we so wanted.

LoLz. It's kind of funny though, to have a whole god in the sky but it's AI you get answers from. Bwahahahahahaha!

FreeIgboho:
It just seems so nonsensical to me to be an atheist or igtheist. I mean, why exactly? It's not as if you know anything for certain. Consider last words of Steve Jobs above, do you think he'd be an atheist at that point? For what reason exactly? Question is WHY?

What is nonsensical is believing what you claim you don't know. It's as nonsensical as a fish in raincoat, rain boot and carrying an umbrella.

tctrills:
I already said we should stop but you are not so keen

LoLz. Must you respond? Matter over don't respond again abeg. Bwahahahahahaha!

tctrills:
Again you are wrong. Despite the imperfections of the writers, the bible will always stand out. It remains one of the oldest text, most widespread, most respected. It has brought peace and healing to the lives of millions. So you waving it off as just any other book is being shallow. It is serving it's purpose. No book written by man is comparable in terms of reach and influence. No book has brought more positive change. That's more than enough evidence that the bible is special.

Dude Samson killing Philistines is not bringing anybody peace. As a matter of fact it is part of the reason they are fight in the Middle East.

I dunno if you are aware that Islam has narrowed the gap in terms of population and is projectied to overtake Christian population. At that point if you are still around would you become a Muslim because their book is more popular than yours?

Popularity is not an indicator of truth.

tctrills:
You started the distraction and honestly, I am already tired of it. You are right, let's stop.

I started and ended it but you are just going on and on. Matter is over abeg.