₦airaland Forum

Rilwayne001:
This has always been my stand, hence the reason for this thread which you are up till now yet to address the OP. It is either you suffer eternal damnation or you enjoy eternal bliss. So, @underlined you affirmed that good people that never heard of jesus would go to heaven. Now, the major question which I have been persistently asking you and your minions is that, since people could make heaven doing good as it is boldly written in Proverbs 21:3 “To do what is right and just is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice.” , then of what purpose should jesus a.k.a god be hanged to the cross again or the bible god just feel like seeing blood as he has been in the OT?



I have been telling you over and over that frosbel is your oga at the top when it comes to attacking muslims. You will surely end up doubting the bible like he's doing.



Lie. Or else he is contradicting himself when it is written in you bible that “Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, with ten thousand rivers of oil? Shall I offer my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? He has showed you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.”

Yadoctora:
He probably found the truth about Christianity as he got too deep being a Christian. Hopefully, davidylan will follow suit. Maybe they'll find the answers in Islam.

Demmzy15:
Allahu AKBAR, this is truth. I pray others heart could be softened like that of 'frosbel'. I've never encountered frosbel, but from what I'm seeing here, he's actually a cool guy!

frosbel:
I believe that all God fearing and honourable people irrespective of religious orientation will be saved into the new kingdom.

The idiocy that only a select group of people are dear to God is akin to supremacist ideology and is counter-productive to the peaceful and loving coexistence between all men.

Christians have totally missed the point and keep condemning and judging other men to a so called hell when the truth is that God is not a Christian and knows of no such religion. God only knows and honours those who practice goodness , equity , fairness and love.

Those deluded ones who keep living like the devil and claim the blood of Jesus as a legal loophole will be in for a shocker.

I will rather be friends with a Muslim who loves his fellow man than a Christian who slanders, insults and humiliates others

Remember ; God sees the heart and not the 'mouth' !

Anas09:
Weldone Bro Malvis. This is well researched. They will still not believe. For the Word says. The gods of the nations are idols, they have eyes but see not, they have ears, but hear not and those who worship them are like them.
I was talking with a muslim friend, he told me that christianity is a confused Faith and that only Islam is on the right track. Hmmmmm. With all I have known abt islam since I joined NL, the expositions from their koran and hadiths. If this religion is on the right track, I don't want that track. God can't possibly send a man like Mohammed. There was nothing good abt the man, and I never heard that he repented. His morals appeared not to matter to allah.
If Islam says that, if your good deeds out numbers your bad deeds, you'll enter heaven. I need a Muslim to count the good deeds of Mohammed. Or was the fact that he never did anything good made him confess that he didn't know where he was going when he dies?

wordcat:
Let him just write these words beside the moon " I Am The Lord That Giveth Live"

He will do it in such a way that I can read in my Igbo language,
A yoruba man can read it in Yoruba language
An Hausa man can read it in Huasa language
A French man can read it in French language
An English man can read it in English language
A Chinese man can read it in Chinese language

And nobody will need somebody to inteprete it for him not even the holy spirit is required to inteprete. We will all read it in our different languages.

onetrack:
If this god just wants us to find him, he only has to reveal himself directly. No need to play games by whispering into the ears of long-dead men who called themselves prophets.

finofaya:
You have expended so much energy in missing the mark.

johnydon22:
Just have to copy my answer to ansas and give to u...Cus you are quite slow in comprehension and love straw man so.much.

Lets start by defining morality;
A moral act is an act that decreases individual human suffering and/or betters societal well being, freedom, equality and justice.

An immoral act is one that increases individual human suffering and is a detriment to to societal well being, freedom, equality or justice.

Both are human concepts clear depicts favourable or unfavourable actions.

Good action or event is one that coincides with the definition of morality. . It favours societal well being, and decreases suffering.

A bad event or action is one that negates the concept of good; it is unfavourable to societal well being and increases human suffering.

So this two are dependent on each other for meaning

The purposes of good(morality)/evil(immorality) is dependent on the concept.. from my answer to 1 and 2 it is easy to deduct that;

the purpose of Good is; To be favourable to human/societal/enviromental well being and minimizes suffering.

While the purpose of bad exactly negates the concept given to the purpose of good.


Same perceptive method. you differentiate colours by optical perception while the human concept of good and evil is perceived by empathical perception which still involves optical, emotional perception etc... i believe an example is needed.
Giving food to a hungry man by every definition decreases the suffering of that hungry man therefore its clear this act falls on the scope of a moral act.

while stealing food from that hungry man increases his suffering because you have just subjected him to hunger. . this act is clear negates the former therefore its distinguishable.

Like other answers above shows; Good and evil are both human concepts tagged to favourable or unfavourable actions. . . Since these are human concepts it is therefore right to deduct humans invent these moral laws to suite the concepts of good and evil.

It is quite simple, since these are human concepts the values too are human concepts too...
So i wonder what you mean by moral giver when morality being a human concept depicts humans perceived it, therefore gave it meaning. this means humans gave these laws which most of the times are subjective and about accountability still boils down to humans; try robbing a bank and see

e.g; In the Jewish society, a law given by the jewish deity stipulates death sentence for a bride found not to be a virgin, why are you not following this law now?

It is very clear that this law whereas masked as a moral law is very far from being moral. and that concept of morality as depicted by the jews surely goes against this modern day concept and that is why i dont see you following it.

How can gay be wrong/right when it doesn't hurt u or anyone, Whats your business with what people do with themselves in bedroom as long as it has nothing to do with me, it doesn't concern me.

Papist:
This one quote my eye. If I may explain, St Paul was an evangelist. Indeed the greatest propagator of the gospel in the apostolic age. He preached to different nationalities, to the Romans, Galatians, Corinthians, Antiochians etc. So what does he mean by becoming all things to all people? He means that if for example you are preaching to the Romans, do so in the language and style they understand with respect to their norms. And this certainly does not mean watering down the gospel. Blessings.

johnydon22:
. . Can you just represent this in plain simple english, i dont seem to understand the rambling.

Let me define morality for you again An action or event that decreases human suffering and/or improves societal well being, justice, equality and freedom.

Immorality is an action that increases Individual human suffering, and is a detriment to societal well being; justice, equality and freedom

[size=20]Clearly the Nazi actions increases the sufferings of the victims, and also is a detriment to societal well being, a detriment to the justice,freedom and equality of the victims there for this action is pure immoral.. . It is evil.. as you can see it falls on the scope of an immoral act so it is pure unadulterated evil[/size] And please i wouldn't want you to drag me back again with a similar daft question
I just did and i also gave reasons why it is evil...Unlike you who cant


Who exactly is calling evil good here... The one who thinks a man burning his child as a sacrifice is good or the one who says its pure evil. . . Really you always amuse me with your childish misconceptions and laughable assertions.

DProDG:
Is this supposed to be the answer to the questions I asked? Bro, no offence but you meet every definition of daft. All the way from you own thread to the beginning of this one, Johnydon22, others and I have explained clearly, in detail the concept of subjective morality - the selfish gene, utilitarianism, empathy but here you go repeating the same thing and creating the same strawman.

You say "morality is unchanging" but as a Christian, you'll be the first to say the laws of the OT have been abandoned. Oxymoron much?

Two things. I don't mind being corrected or being called out but I'll appreciate it if while being a hypocrite, you can at least quote me and point out where I said something 'ignorant', 'bias' or 'dishonest'.

malvisguy212:
you say good is used to represent an action that favour man, if what is bad and human called it good, how can you explained it? For atheists, ethics keep evolving; however, morality does not. Right is always right. For what you and your atheists friends are implying here, there is a GREAT EVIL if mankind will adopt your explanation.
Let us do this, I want to show you were you are dead wrong,very wrong indeed!!
the Nazis gave orders calling for the "final solution." This law gave officials legal authority to kill the people in the
concentration camps. Now was this law
evil? Was killing people in the camps
evil?
Answer this question and see how satan is manipulating you to called good bad and bad good, I know you cannot answer it.
Isaiah say in isaiah 5:20;
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.
Thousands of isaiah prophecy come to pass, I think this one also is coming to pass.

Rilwayne001:
So, which church posses it and which ones doesn't? how do one differentiate between those that possess it and those that do not? does you church possess it? do you malvisguy possess it? what new things has it revealved to you? All these questions beg for answer which your brain can't decipher except you copy and paste irrelevant replies.

I can confidently say that you don't understand what you are saying again @underlined. So, the holy spirit is not responsible again for ones decision but ones conscience? how about those who are not christans that still ward off evil? is the alleged holy spirit the one telling them not to?



Whats your question robot?

malvisguy212:
So I've been thinking lately about the
irony in atheists... and when I mean
atheists, I mean the ones that stick to
their guns, who try to define everything
within a material worldview.
From my experience of dealing with
atheists, I've seen them step into a pool
of ironic stupidity, think of this...
"The chances of gravity ceasing to exists
is 0000000000000000000000000000000000 00000001 %." If it did happen it would
be a miracle.

"The chances of the universe being life
permitting is
. 0000000000000000000000000000000001 %." Yet to them, it isn't a miracle?!?!
I don't understand that type of "logic."
On top of, how can they truly be "logical," or know that they are logical?
In their worldview everything immaterial has to be explained through material means..well then, how do they account for immaterial things that can't be found in nature, like logic? Where is logic growing? Which atoms in our head are "logic?" On top of why is that a universe with no objective purpose (i.e. heat death to all of the universe) should be life permitting? And that the universe should follow immaterial laws that an atheists can't justify like the laws of logic, and gravity?

On top of, they use the terms "free thinker" a lot but that implies that have
choice. In a universe where every
succeeding action comes from a preceding event (material determinism)
there is no true free will, or choice.
Choice within itself is an illusion and is
only the result of molecular anarchy and natural processes.

To me, it looks like atheism can't even get off the ground. What they define within their worldview "logic and reasoning," they can't even get off the ground. Their worldview is truly based upon Socratic ignorance and is philosophically bankrupt. Do they honestly believe this world is created by ancient chemicals, infinite luck, and blind chance? While I'm at it I may wanna bring up morals. First off, morals imply that we have a choice over the opposite (not having morals) which makes no sense because within their worldview there is no choice... Secondly there is no objective, concrete moral framework outside of the brain. In a practical sense, it's not that atheist can't be a good chap, or have some sense of ethics... it's the fact that all morals are a preference and are different from person to person, that's what true moral subjectivity is. The second an atheist tells another human what to do, they are being hypocritical and no longer consistent within their worldview. In short, an intellectually
honest atheist would be a nihilist who
says "I strongly dislike ______. or I prefer __ _______." But how about the ones that use things like evolutionary psychology, or humanism as objective framework?
Well first off evolutionary psychology
only explains what is, not what should
be.

I think i'm done but other than that I
HATE once atheists make the illogical
comparison of God to something like the
Tooth Fairy. What's really funny is if that were true then the disbelief of the tooth fairy would produce stupidity like above but it doesn't. Only disbelief in God makes one that stupid.
Atheist: "Science says it, I believe it, That settles it."to me, I called this "cowardice of an atheist"

1 Corinthians 1:27
But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

Rilwayne001:
So, which new thing(s) as this holy spirit taught you? If indeed,this holy spirit remind the xtian believers all that jesus said to them, why are they stiill heading to different direction?



You probably don't know what you are doing, if not you won't bring up this verse. So, I asked again, what has this spirit taught xtians? is he teaching them different things which caused them to go different ways to the extent of splittibg to thounsands ofsect?



@underlined, what has this spirit revealed to you?
Is this spirit revealing contradictory things? how come there are thousands of churche if this spirit is revealing same thing to them?

johnydon22:
Good is used to represent an action or event favourable to human survival and societal well being, that is how the concept of good was derived.

Evil is an action or event that is a detriment to societal well being and unfavorable to human survival and increases suffering. . . That is what is termed evil, this is exactly how the concept of Good/evil are conceived[/b]
They negate each other.
And you call this logical? . . . Did the definition of logical change of recent
.

Rilwayne001:
Stop feigning ignorance malvisguy, we are told that he would guide believers to ALL TRUTH. So, I ask you, which is the TRUTH among all the thousands of church?

Rilwayne001:
I'm not in anyway confused, I know you would go and copy and paste what you don't understand or read and you've done below. I will reply your words and not those ones you copied



Now, its not possible for thousands of church to be heading to different direction and the holy spirit wouldn't convict them of sin. Take catholic, JW and protestants as example, its not possible for the 3 to be doing the right thing at the same time or else you want to tell me otherwise. Catholic reffered mary as mother of god, the other 2 don't. JW rject trinity, the other 2 don't. Protestants defraud their members by collecting tithes, the other 2 don't. Where is the holy spirit in them al?




In the chapter of john where jesus talked about the coming of this holy spirit, jesus said "he has a lot to say but they cannot bear them, that when the holy spirit he will guide you into all the TRUTH," The is contrary to you lie that his only mission is to convict sinners, we are told that he would guide believers to ALL TRUTH. So, I ask you, which is the TRUTH among all the thousands of church?

Rilwayne001:
Instead of you to go back to school, you come here to form robot.

What is the meaning of the word "exhibit"? Check it and answer my question.




Then what does he mean when he said ". I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some.

And I asked, where did Jesus ever become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might believe him.


And you are still lying, hun?

'I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some."



Historical context matters and until you understand that this verse is directed at the people of that time, there is nothing I can do about your ignorance, I can as well foray into the OT and pick out hundreds of commandment.

Rilwayne001:
Forget about sect, afterall you will rant as usual claiming freewill that you know nothing about. Lemme ask you, what is the role of holy spirit in the life of a christian? does holy spirit affects ones free will?

Now, to the main point. Again have you ever emulate paul in this regard by claiming to be a muslim so as to convert a muslim to xtianity?

Rilwayne001:
And I asked Can you point out where Jesus ever exhibit all that this fraudster above wrote? i.e. " becoming all things to all people so that by all possible means Jesus might save them. Did jesus ever become a pagan to save pagans? did he command his followers to do so? If Paul actually did it, was he emulating jesus? if he isn't, does that make him a christian?

Rilwayne001:
What is more foolish than thinking 1 sect out of 44000sects is the only true one? Where is this holy spirit in the church when there are thousands of church followinh Different doctrines?



[b] Why call yourself what you are not to gain what you want?

According to the verse: "20To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21To those not having the law I
became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings"

Can you point out where jesus ever exhibit all that this fraudster above wrote? Jesus said "Let your Yes be Yes, and your NO be No" can you reconcile this with what paul said above?

Rilwayne001:
What is more foolish than thinking 1 sect out of 44000sects is the only true one? Where is this holy spirit in the church when there are thousands of church followinh Different doctrines?



[b] Why call yourself what you are not to gain what you want?

According to the verse: "20To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21To those not having the law I
became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings"

Can you point out where jesus ever exhibit all that this fraudster above wrote? Jesus said "Let your Yes be Yes, and your NO be No" can you reconcile this with what paul said above?

Secondly, only fraudsters act the way paul did above. Take a yahoo boy for example, yahoo boy in Nigeria would call himself a white man living in the US so as to defraud an unsuspecting white woman. This exactly what paul did and taught people like you.

So, malviguy212, have you ever emulate paul in this regard by claiming to be a muslim so as to convert a muslim to your delusions? Perhaps you are doing that with anotjer moniker, no? Well, you are not that smart to do it, you are more like a robot even with your real moniker.

Yahoo boys learnt how to defraud people from paul...E.O.D. [/b]

DProDG:
Oh really? Well I'm glad we are on the same page then.

Why then do you support the idea of objective morality that implies 'good' is an entity?