₦airaland Forum

OkCornel:
Absolutely not. But it becomes an issue when there are no fruits to show for it.

We can trust all we want, but if one’s lifestyle is not consistent with their confessions of Jesus whom they claim to follow, hypocrisy and lip service is what happens.


And Jesus said, “why call me Lord, but do not do the things I say”

you are just expanding the argument here bro. how can you trust God when your lifestyle is inconsistent with the truth ? does it even make sense ? every sane Christian will know you are an hypocrite.

OkCornel:
Perhaps Simon the sorcerer never did the same

is it wrong to put my trust on the finished work of our savior ?

OkCornel:
Too bad! Only if Simon the sorcerer knew this


Oh I forgot, maybe he never believed in Jesus to start with.

I put my trust on the finished work of JESUS. I can't put my trust my own work.

solite3:
you have really tried to open their eyes to the truth but they still choose to remain blind.

in Hebrew 12:2 the Bible say JESUS is the AUTHOR and FINISHER of our Faith. when you look at your Faith you get discouraged, even the disciples who walk with JESUS ,on many occasion JESUS address there faith as " o ye of little Faith" This is what usually happens as we get our eyes off the Lord and onto our own weak and frail faith, our own work .

But God never told us to look at our faith for assurance of salvation. He never told us to look at our own life and our own good works or lack of good works. No, God tells us to be "looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our Faith".

my Faith is weak, but my Saviour is STRONGER. The question is not, "How good is my faith?" The question is not, "How good is my walk?" But rather the questions is, "How good is my Saviour?" The question is not, "Am I believing?" but rather it is, "IN WHOM am I
believing and in what direction am I looking?"
Instead of desperately searching our deceitful
hearts trying to find faith, we need to joyfully
search God's Word looking to find Christ.

solite3:
that is it! James said show me your faith without works and I will show you my faith by my works.
How will the world know that we are the sons of God but by our good works,
As Christians we live right not because we want to justify ourself but to glorify God and show his glory.
Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

perfectly said bro. this people living to justify themselves and Not God, Matthew 5:16 explained the type of work JESUS had in mind " let your light shine BEFORE MEN," not before God. what are we proving to God who already understand us better ?

^^^^ this is not to say work is not necessary , work is needed to prove the evident of a SAVING FAITH.

jesusjnr:
If it's so hard for you to accept the obvious Truth that your idea of grace without works in the respect of salvation is a delusion, I can understand.

It seems you have a very short memory, so I had to get this comment to refresh your memory. So may I ask, who made this comment?



This is the idea of grace of hell fire!!!

This is the idea of grace that encourages men to continue in their iniquity.

This is the grace that pastor I spoke about and many church leaders and christians used to justify their iniquities. The grace of resting on the work of another and allowing the boat to do all the work!

So hope you now see where you spoke about not having to work with respect to salvation as many erroneously do inclusive of the Op?

But you're now relunctanctly accepting the Truth that the idea that you have to work, that means you're rejecting your above comment of allowing grace do all the work, because If you have to do some work, it means that you need works to be saved!

So it's not about reading the Bible, but knowing the Truth. Therefore you can read the Bible all you want but if you don't know the Truth, you shall keep walking in lies.

you have a serious problem of comprehension, when the Bible say believed on the Lord JESUS Christ and you will be save, what are we believing ? in our work ? or the WORK OF JESUS ? salvation is DONE, FINISHED, ACCOMPLISHED . salvation is NOT DOING, we don't have to work to get saved. the work of our salvation has already been done.

the criminal that was crucified with JESUS, did he work to get saved ? wasn't he the worst ? which work did he do that warrant Paradise ? GOD grace is able to save the worst men IF they BELIEVE on JESUS Christ. thus, the criminal believed and was saved.

"Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends
of the earth: for I am God, and there is none
else." (Isaiah 45:22)

jesusjnr:
Lol! You have shifted your goal post, and you still say I miss it?

Are we not talking of grace in the respect of gaining salvation?

The grace is God's exclusively, but how do you get it?

You claim you don't do anything to get it, but just get in the boat, and the grace does all the work and are now claiming that such a grace could be abused? How could such a grace that you

If you can see the obvious contradiction in that those two statements, then I think you are confused, because how could such a grace that does all the work for you, that you don't have to do anything, still be abused?

But you take that confusion to faith works, so what is faith works now that is different from works?

Instead of you to admit that your idea of grace without works which leads men to continue in sin is a delusion, you are trying to dance about it?

Let's leave this matter because it obvious you now see that there no way to get around works to get saved, anyhow you choose to dance around it.

Bottom line without works, whether it's grace oh or faith or love or mercy, na straight to hell fire. There is no gainsaying that truth!

do you read Bible at all ? who say you don't have to work ? the thing is that work in this context is not the mean of salvation, you are already save by trusting in God, you only need to show the evidence of your faith in God.

jesusjnr:
Abuse of which grace? The same grace that you said does all the work while you do nothing, could yet be abused?

How could such a grace that requires no works/obedience/righteousness in the respect of salvation still be abused?

Was it not the Op who said such grace covered someone whether they sinned or not? So continuing in one's iniquity and sin cannot be an abuse of such grace, for that's the concept of such grace, which such pastors and christians use to justify such atrocities they commit, because it would still cover them regardless.

So that grace cannot be abused except you're now beginning to see that your idea of grace "that does all the work while you do nothing" is so faulty.

Mind you, that's has never the idea of God's grace which leads to salvation, for that grace requires works as repentance, righteousness, obedience of God's Word, for man to be able to have it.

So what you call grace is not God's grace, but clearly a man-made idea, hence the damning results, as men continuing in their sins that (such) grace may abound.

Therefore it's this your idea of grace that is a delusion, God's grace stands sure.

you entirely miss it and you ask a wrong question. add anything to Grace then its no more Grace. FLESHLY WORKS: that which an unsaved person tries to produce in order to be
saved. FAITH WORKS are pleasing to God . we are justified by Faith in God and not in our work.

OkCornel:
g
Nope! Why do you ask?

Jehovah witness always use that verse ( matt 19:17)to deny the DEITY of JESUS. I thought wrong. thank you.

let us not use this augment to call ourselves liar.

OkCornel:
Yeah, according to Matthew 19 v 17, Jesus is God;

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good BUT ONE, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments

Unless you're telling us Jesus was contradicting Himself in Matthew 19 v 17.

Solite3, when are you going to show us where Judas Iscariot was baptized?

are you a Jehovah witness ?

Grace is more than forgiveness of sin because the woman caught in adultery, He told the woman to go and sin no more, were His word not spirit and life that should empowered the woman for victory and forgiveness ? why didn't JESUS say " woman I know you are weak anytime you sin just ask for forgiveness.
For there are certain men crept in unawares,...,
ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into
lasciviousness , and denying the only Lord God,
and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Jude 1:4

jesusjnr:
The kind of grace gospel y'all preach is!

What grace do Pastors talk about that is upon them which they use to justify acts of rape and adultery, if not the grace that y'all preach that doesn't require for one to stop acting wickedly?

A married Pastor committed adultery with a young girl and when the girl got pregnant, I think he compelled her to abort the child, and in the process of aborting the child, the girl died.

And when the man was confronted, he was talking about grace upon his life... So what grace was he talking about?

But that which anyone can continue in his iniquity and yet be saved?

That's the grace of hell fire!

that not what Grace is all about, I"d liken your post like a man who claimed to love a Lady just to sleep with her, because of the man abuse of love, should we say love is delusion ? no. just because some pastor abuse grace doesn't mean Grace is license to sin.

a friend on this forum explained it perfectly :

Grace only becomes effectual in our lives
when we believe on Him Romans 5:2 hence the
need to hold fast and continue in the faith.

Grace goes beyond forgiveness of sins to
empowerment to live victorious lives Titus
2:11-13 and that if this aspect of grace is
missing, we may profess grace but we deceive
ourselves and turn God's grace into
lasciviousness !.

thank to a dear friend . scholar

jesusjnr:
Lol!

Anyone against a grace gospel which sends men to hell by encouraging them to continue in their sins, is a Satanist.

Grace indeed!

is Grace license to sin ?

OkCornel:
Look at the bolded, “Jewish woman” and not Rahab.


And yes, that is what grace entails, you are forgiven, to sin no more. Grace is not an excuse to continue in sin under the guise that.

Or has my posts on grace said anything different?

good, we are on the same boat.

OkCornel:
Bros, who was the Law meant for?

This same Jesus also admonished people to “go and sin no more” and “be perfect, for our Heavenly Father is perfect”

Why?

a Jewish woman caught in the acts of adultery and JESUS say go and sin no more instead of stoning to death, wasn't this Grace ? it buttress my point.

OkCornel:
What law are you keeping?

Were you ever under the Law to start with?

What is the essence of grace about? A get out of jail card to keep on sinning?

God’s mercy and grace is there to ensure we repent and turn from our sinful ways. It’s not a platform to justify being stunted in our spiritual growth and excusing sinful habit in one’s life.

Again, why would Jesus on more than one occasion still say “go and sin no more”

In addition, why would Jesus also admonish “be perfect, for our Heavenly Father is perfect “

Or you think Jesus had no reason for saying these?

good, for me I believed the law have serve it's purpose. The purpose of the law is not to save (JUSTIFY) a person. The purpose of the law is to show a person his sin (make him knowledgeable about his sin) Think again of a man with a dirty face who looks into a mirror. The DIRT is like SIN and the MIRROR is like the LAW. The purpose of the mirror is to show a
person his dirt! We certainly would not wash our face with the mirror! The mirror tells us that we need to use the soap and water, just as the law tells us that we have sin and need to be cleansed. The LAW cannot cleanse us from sin, only the LAMB can do that.

OkCornel:
I agree on this.

What I was reiterating on this thread is the need for repentance and keeping one’s heart right with God.

The essence of grace is a time of mercy for man to repent and turn away from their sinful ways.

Obeying the words of Jesus, yielding to the Holy Spirit and constantly renewing one’s mind is very very essential.

I’d really wonder why Jesus would say “go and sin no more”

Or why He didn’t just use belief as the basis to separate the sheeps from the goats.

Good. how many of us can boast that we have perfectly kept the law ? none, thus we need His Mercy and Grace. thank you.

OkCornel:
You said I had to go to Saudi Arabia to break their laws first before facing the consequences.

Relate that with what we were discussing about Rahab.

Was she living with the Israelites while prostituting? That would have been a different thing altogether

Numbers 15 v 15-16;
15 One ordinance shall be both for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojourneth with you, an ordinance for ever in your generations: as ye are, so shall the stranger be before the Lord.

16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.


As you can see from the scriptures above, it’s pointless stoning Rahab to death over a law she was never under. She was living at Jericho with her people prior to the Jewish invasion.

peace bro but Remember, if we could keep the law perfectly then we would not need a Saviour and the death of Christ would not have been necessary . Only guilty lawbreakers need a Saviour, but righteous people who never break the law do not need a Saviour. thank you.

OkCornel:
Now I know reasoning is really a problem for you.

So when Rahab was at Jericho living as prostitute, she was under the Mosaic law that should stone her to death abi?

Read the bolded part of your quote and add your 1 + 1 again.


Why should Rahab a gentile be stoned to death for a law she was never under?

the post was an example.

OkCornel:
Good question, did the laws and customs of her land outlaw prostitution?

The land of Canaan for example where Temple prostitution was deeply entrenched in their culture, how would someone raised in such a background see such as something wrong?

helping the messenger imply she had knowledge of this law. she wouldn't help someone who condemned what she loves most

OkCornel:
Malvisguy212 the major thing is Rahab never went back to her prostituting ways after her encounter at Jericho. That’s the repentance.

She married Salmon from the tribe of Judah and ended up as the mother of Boaz.

yes, she never went back,but the good deed was done when she was a prostitute.

OkCornel:
I wonder how someone will read the bible and tell us a gentile should be stoned to death over something she’s unaware of..

is she unaware that prostitution is wrong ? smh

MuttleyLaff:
Repeating the same thing, like as if he is a broken vinyl record, is his modus operandi annoying special strategy to wear you out.

he mater tire me. because he is not under sharia law, let him go to Saudi Arabia and break there law , may be his only defence , he is not under sharia law despite the fact that he has knowledge of this law.

MuttleyLaff:
Your last post on this thread as concerned him, not your last post on this thread

may be you are right. but that brother keep repeating the same thing .

OkCornel:
You are still shifting goalpost to something else.

Why should Rahab be stoned to death over a law she was not under?

It’s synonymous to judging a Christian with the Sharia law to determine whether such a person is law abiding.

On what grounds should Rahab the gentile be stoned to death?

you are not qualify to discuss this topic. anyway you tried. thank you for your time. stay bless.

OkCornel:
Was Rahab under the mosaic law? that she should be stoned to death ni?

I also gave you the example of Judah that fornicated with Tamar, you conveniently side stepped that question to run to idolatry. Please why shouldn't Judah and Tamar be stoned to death? or what they did was not wrong?

this will be my last post on this thread.

in James 2 , it is very clear that James audience has the same mind set as you guys. James use rahab the prostitute to illustrate his point, a shame to people who claimed to be save. James audience thought that good work will earn them eternal life, so James ask this question :
James 2:25-26 In the same way, was not even Rahab
the prostitute CONSIDERED RIGHTEOUS for what
she did when she gave lodging to the spies
and sent them off in a different direction?
As the body without the spirit is dead, so
faith without deeds is dead.

wasn't rehab the worst ? ( a prostitute ) how then was she considered righteous by this Jews ? was she justified by faith ? or work ? if you claimed that you have done good deed that will earn you eternal life, rahab the prostitute has done far greater.


How is a person saved? “For by grace are ye saved THROUGH FAITH, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast.” Salvation is a gift. It is free (paid for by the blood of Christ). All the sinner needs to do is to receive that gift by faith.

a believer must performed Good work to show the evidence of his Faith. work in this context is not the kind of work that will earn you eternal life, you do Good work because you are save.

James 2:3-4 If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, “Here’s a good seat for you,” but say to the poor man, “You stand there” or
“Sit on the floor by my feet,” have you not
discriminated among yourselves and become
judges with evil thoughts?

this passage show the kind of work James had in mind.

OkCornel:
Nah nah nah, you're shifting the goalpost to something else here. You said Rahab deserved to be stoned to death ACCORDING TO THE LAW.

Were the gentiles ever under the Mosaic Law in the first place? Did Rahab partake in the oath to be bound according to the blessings and curses of the Law?

As regards your other questions, man was conscious of good and evil ever since Adam & Eve ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Knowledge of good and evil did not start with the 10 commandments or the mosaic law. Cain did not need any 10 commandments before he got to know killing Abel was wrong.

Let's move on to Judah who committed "fornication" with Tamar who later gave birth to twins. Judah and Tamar were never under the Law, does it then make sense to stone them to death for such an act?

The Mosaic Law, it's blessings, curses and penalties were applicable to the Jews right from when those instructions were given. All the 613 instructions.

so as you know what is right and wrong, you stand condemned. Gentile idolatry is condemned as sin by the prophets of God Exodus 20:3-5;
32:35; Numbers 25:1-9. is idolatry not under the mosaic law ?

OkCornel:
You have not answered my question. On what grounds should Rahab be penalised under a Law she was never under?


Abi the Mosaic Law applied to the gentiles too?

Who was the Mosaic Law meant for?

are you implying that God has no interest for the gentile ? because adultery is under the mosaic law mean the gentile can commit adultery ? rehab had knowledge of this law so she stand condemned. or because you okcornel is a gentile mean you can commit adultery ?

And Jonah’s missionary endeavor to the people of Nineveh in fare away Assyria is a delightful illustration of the Lord’s interest in Gentile people , even while the main focus remained upon the nation of Israel. so long as you reject what is right, you stand condemned.

jesusjnr:
I find it really strange that you claim he had answered these questions, yet you're here preaching the gospel of the grace that encourages men to continue in sin, so how possible that?

If he actually corrected that error as you claim, you wouldn't be here yet justifying a grace that would make men not to do any work but continue in their sins.

Such a grace leads men to hell!

All those who died after the death of Jesus and yet went to hell had that grace.

So what's the difference, they all had the grace but they yet continued in their sins whether they believed in Jesus or not.

Do you think that those many who Jesus told he never knew didn't believe in him?

Yet they were able to do such wonderful works in His name?

The difference is that they continued in their iniquity despite having that grace.

Grace can save no man who continues in his sins!

Matthew 13:41-42 (KJV)

41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

thank you for your time .

OkCornel:
What brought James into this equation?


We were talking about whether Rahab should be stoned to death for violating a law she was not aware of as a gentile? A law she was never under?

James is the author, in discussing this issue, James use the story of rahab to illustrate his point.

let me ask you a question, How many laws must be broken for a man to become a LAWBREAKER? If you have a chain with just one of the links broken, is it still a broken chain? what does James 2:10 mean ?

OkCornel:
The adulterous woman was a Jew? Yes or no


Was Rahab a citizen of Jericho ever under the Mosaic Law and took an oath to bound by the blesses and curses of the law...like a typical Jew back then did? Before her encounter with the spies and eventual rescue, was Rahab bound to obey the Mosaic Law?

listen, James know his audience, was he wrong for using rahab to illustrate his point ?