₦airaland Forum

Genesis 9:3
Every moving thing that lives shall be food
for you. And as I gave you the green plants, I
give you everything.

herbs for cure , Yes. but for dark power, the Bible condemned it..Faith is TRUSTING GOD , God hears the prayers of the righteous. How strange it would be for us to ask God to regard our wishes and desires when we disregard His. While we earnestly endeavor to be obedient, God will hear our petitions; but He will not bless us in disobedience.

lemme called out my Good friend Scholar8200

op. good, at least you humble yourself, now your next assignment is to know who JESUS IS , and believed in His WORD.

shadeyinka:
On a hindsight I saw that you have actually answered my question in this post. So, I'm going to answer you.

Your Question:
How do you know concepts like logic, entropy and thermodynamics (the observables) apply beyond our observable universe?

Answer:
What we know is based strictly on our observations and experience of events, causes and effects within this present universe. Because of this, it is impossible to prove God using any means. We can only know God when we experience Him through events and circumstances we find ourselves in in relation to Him.

Logic may apply to some extent, arithmetics may still be true to some extent.

While we remain on earth however except by our experience we don't have any other suitable means of getting to an understanding of what we see as Truth.

Haven answered your question, the following facts follow:
1. It is impossible to prove God using Logic, Physics, Chemistry or any other natural law for if God is the First Cause our present knowledge is insufficient to grasp Him
2. It is therefore ridiculous to disprove the existence of God with any natural means of Logic, Physics, Chemistry etc.
3. Experience is the only way to know the reality of God even though experiences may be subjective and unconvincing to those outside the experience.
4. With the laws of Physics, Chemistry, Logic and Mathematics, the best we can do (in making meaning from issues) is to project our present realities into the past or future so as to be able to make a meaning of our present realities.


All the arguments on this thread had hinged on this item 4 if we decide to ignore item 1, 2 & 3. The difference between the two divides is those with experience of God AND those with no experience.

Finally:
Using item 4 as basis:
1. Every effect has a cause
2. Every cause has an effect
3. Infinite regress of cause and effect is impossible

This would mean either
a. Causes or Effects don't exist (which by our experience is untrue)
OR
b. Infinite regress of cause and effect is possible
Or
c. We have a conflicting Logic

An infinite regress of cause and effect is self contradictory because to take away the cause, no effect is possible or take away the effect and there is no cause. If there is no first cause there is no others.

Hence, Unless the rule is broken at least once at the beginning with a First Cause can 1 & 2 hold.

If you feel that another conclusion exist, please be my guest

On these hinged all my arguments using our present understanding of science and logic.


This is it for those who need "EVIDENCE" for a First Cause. Like I said earlier, the First Cause needn't be God. The First Cause could be a Thing or a Being. It is left for you to decide if the Uncaused First Cause is a Thing or a Being.

Denying the First Cause is rejecting the only argument that can lead to the discovery of the identity of the First Cause.
The Agnostics best argument is this to be "Based on my knowledge, I don't know if the First Cause is a Thing or a Being!"

Here, I rest my case.

Case close. I wholeheartedly agree with you. God bless you

budaatum:
No, I am not a believer.

alright. enjoy the rest of the day.

budaatum:
No, I am not a believer.

alright. enjoy the rest of the day.

budaatum:
What is God?

why do you ask this question ? are you not a believer ?

XxSabrinaxX:
Your Inane Butthurt Gibberish has been forwarded to the Inane Butthurt Gibberish Department. Your patronage is important to us. Please allow for some few minutes to reply and thank you for playing.
[img]https://media./images/3936c43c69f65851c5521a90681ba3ff/tenor.gif[/img]


Please refresh my memory sir. I seem to have forgotten where I mentioned you.

well, sorry about that.

XxSabrinaxX:
That your opinions are irrelevant.

and your opinion doesn't change the Truth that there is God. except you have traveled to our solar system and invent a new theory that can explained the mystery of the univers.

shadeyinka2:
Quoting You:
This satanic deception appeals strongly to
atheists as it bolsters two of their desired
delusions:
1) absolute autonomy being free to
do as they please, and
2) the lack of ultimate
accountability,there are no eternal
consequences for doing as they please.
The human conscience can be killed dead!
Atheism is a choice to be Blind while hoping to avoid the consequence of having a sight.

perfectly said bro.

frank317:
Why should I thank anything or anybody for the awe and mystery of the universe? When I finish thanking it what will happen... This how u guys waste ur time on rubbish

I think you should thank blind chance for somehow produced the right properties for your existence. what intelligent minded scientists could not do .

tintingz:
Seriously?!

Please answer my question first.

I am serious. I may charting with a ghosts , you know!

tintingz:
How did you know about your God?

how do I know that who I am charting with is a human ?

shadeyinka2:
You couldn't have said it better. Atheism doesn't care about the Truth. What matters is the CHOICE to DESBELIEVE in the existence of the creator.

It amazes me as some people desbelieve that Buhari is Buhari but Jubril from Sudan. No logic or sense will convince a donkey that has made up its mind

Read this thread I created , old thread. https://www.nairaland.com/3288341/how-satan-deceived-atheists

shadeyinka2:
I hate a situation where an atheist is willing to hide under "we don't know what is outside our universe" AND yet still come out to assert that " whatever is outside the universe CANNOT be God"! If you don't know, how do you then know?

honestly, its baffled me top. when you tackle them very well, the best you will get from them is " I don't know" but on another thread, they will argued as if they know who created the universe . can you imaging an atheist asking a lady to prove with empirical evidence that God exist ? maybe he think God is one old man with white beard seated on the sky .

you don't need Faith, reason or logic to be an atheist. all you need to do is just reject anything someone told you about God .
John 14:6
Jesus *said to him, “I am the way, and the truth,
and the life; no one comes to the Father but
THROUGH ME.

JESUS exist and He has prove the Existence of His Father to the whole world long time ago.

LordReed:
I don't think the animals that died due to asteroid impacts would agree with you if they could speak. It is a wonder though that we are alive in a universe that is largely uninhabitable by us.

let me add this to your comment. since you're so concern of this animals ( which is very good of you) when next you want to buy a pet, why not ask for the pet genealogy or his offspring . how about that ?

LordReed:
Why do I need to thank anybody? Why can't I just revel in the awe and wonder?

so we are fortunate to experience the Awe the wonders and beauty in the univers ? we are lucky to be here!!!

For billions of years, the solar system has been running in the Milky Way galaxy in an orderly
manner, and with no single mistake. indeed we are lucky.

johnydon22:
Thank you Doctor for treating my ailment
Thank you Taxi Driver for your service
Thank you Caterer for the delicious meal I just ate
Thank you my friend LordReed for your help during my Papa's burial last week.
Thank you Waiter for the drink
Thank you Police man for protecting me


How difficult can this be really?

Or you mean when they are feeling to thank something that didn't do anything for them and figure they should just thank the "people" that actually did something meaningful for them?

I think the op was trying to say if you believed in the awe and the wonder and the mystery, the amazing design of the univers, you will be tempted to thank who ? I guess blind chance ?

long time bro, trust all is well ?

jesusjnr:
The imaginary boat that those annointed workers of iniquity (rapists, thieves, murderers, false accusers, ritual killers, peodophiles, homosexuals etc) also entered that they believed did all the work for them, before they appeared Jesus who denied ever knowing them and sent them packing, right?

Well enjoy yourselves in that boat built upon a false doctrine till we reach the other side where Jesus is, ok?

Matthew 16:27 (KJV)

27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Jesus finished His own work, but He would only reward you according to your own works.

wow. alright.

CaveAdullam:
Blessed are you and your household. You are wise in heart.

@bolded, I am blessed.

Thanks.

God bless.

indeed, God name be Praise

jesusjnr:
So the right translation of the word from the Koran is slave and not servant as I claimed?

Time will tell who the bolded truly speaks of, if it's me or not you that believes in the Antichrist doctrine that he can continue in his iniquity but yet be justified by faith/grace.

well, there is big different between me and you; your religion is DOING ( legalism) while my religion is DONE ( Christianity).

I am resting on the finished work of JESUS. when the Lord Jesus Christ died on the cross He cried out, "It is finished" John 19:30. The work of our salvation was FINISHED, DONE, ACCOMPLISHED and COMPLETED.

the religion man try to swim from place to another. but the SAVED man enter a boat , he allowed the boat to do ALL THE WORK. salvation is by atonement on the ground of DIVINE MERCY, what you need is a NEW HEART.

Is it possible for sinful men to perfectly keep God’s holy law?

jesusjnr:
It's quite unfortunate that you pretend you don't know what the good works are.

So if those are the good works, why were they also workers of iniquity, the reason given by Jesus for rejecting them? Are you going to tell me that according your interpretation of "belief in Jesus" that those one who did such wonderful works in name of Jesus didn't meet the criteria?

Those are wonderful works are miracles done in the name of Jesus, not the good works done by the obedience of His Words. So they were annointed workers of iniquity/sinners, not annointed workers of righteousness/good deeds.

So y'all are proving this saying of Jesus true that there would be people who think they could continue in their iniquity and be justified by grace alone without good works, but that is to prove to y'all who are misled with such lies that good works matters to Jesus and no one would be accepted by Him without it.

But y'all can keep wasting this effort of Jesus by your belief of such lies and erroneous teachings regardless, for it seems inevitable that "many" would yet be deceived in spite of His many warnings as such.

OK

Anas09:
@ Enilove, and Malvisguy212, you guys are ex muslims and know better than i. Pls did the koran call Essa a slave of Allah or not? I have screenshot the passage but cannot upload. I don't know why.

Pls enilove can you post it here? Thanks.
Anything to get away with your numerous lies and false accusations, as if you have to resort to lies to prove someone is false.


You mean I can lie about a book that is open for all to read?
Let the Ex-Muslim who are vast in the koran come help you. Be ready to call them liers too.


Lolzzzzz. Jesus was called Emmanuel, the Almighty God, the Prince of Peace in the Old Testament.
Thank you for vindicating me. Nicolai.


The Old Testament called Jesus God.


Can you post where the koran says Jesus is the son of God?

He is confused, you provide evidence from the Quran and he still reject it, do you no why he reject it ? because he is a reprobate minded man. son of perdition, surprising the truth for lies .

jesusjnr:
According to Paul not Jesus!

Remember God is Holy. and who are we ? we are lost sinner. what do we deserved ? because of our wicked and sinful nature, we deserved the death penalty. now, what is the GOSPEL ? John 3:16 sum up the Gospel in a nutshell, in spite of my sinful way God still Love me, that why He send His only son to die for me. what must I do to be saved ? John 6:40:

. For my Father’s will is that EVERYONE WHO LOOKS TO THE SON AND BELIEVES IN HIM SHALL HAVE ETERNAL LIFE and I will raise them up at the last day

did the Bible talk about your own work? now pay attention to this question, NOW that i am saved, what must I do ? not BEFORE I am saved, no , NOW I AM SAVED WHAT MUST I DO ?

now the word DO in this question is NOT the work you do to get eternal life, ( Jesus has already do it) the word do in the question is the work you do to SHOW THE EVIDENCE OF YOUR FAITH , you do the work because you are saved .

Good work are rejected in the last day:

Matthew 7:22-23

On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord,
Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and
cast out demons in your name, and do many
MIGHTY WORK in your name?’ And then
will I declare to them, ‘I NEVER KNOW YOU
depart from me, you workers of
lawlessness.’

the ONLY Good work needed to be done has already been doned by JESUS, Christ dying for sinful men.

Abdulgaffar22:
What's the essence of living a good life after someone has denied his Creator. Does it even make sense to you to believe that your great great ancestors are apes, gorillas and chimpanzees ? Is this not an insult to the precious intelligence of man ?

There are thousands of evidence for the existence of God. But you choose to close your eyes against those evidence because of the hatred you have developed for the existence of God.

You now believe that ;


1. Universe is BLIND, yet given enough time a creature that can SEE emerged from the same very Universe.


2. Universe is DEAF yet given enough time a creature that can HEAR emerged from the same very Universe.


3. Universe is DUMB, yet given enough time
a creature that can TALK and SPEAK over six thousand different languages emerged from the same very Universe.

4. Universe has NO KNOWLEDGE about ITSELF yet given enough time a creature that possesed EVERY ASPECT OF KNOWLEDGE about the Universe emerged from the same very Universe

5. Universe is NOT INTELLIGENT, yet given enough time a creature that possessed INTELLIGENCE emerged from the same very Universe.

6. Universe CANNOT THINK yet given enough time a creature that CAN THINK logically and formulate a rational argument emerged from the same very Universe.

7 No part of Universe can move voluntarily, yet given enough time a creature that can MOVE VOLUNTARILY emerged from the same very Universe.


Ask yourself; is this not a CONTRADICTION? Positive qualities which are NO WHERE to be found in the Universe later emerged from the SAME VERY Universe without any external influence.

Can something give to itself what it doesn't have ?

The only factor responsible for all these miraculous transformations is ENOUGH TIME according to your belief.

But does TIME has the capacity to change anything in a positive manner ? What we generally know about time is to cause something left to itself to DISINTEGRATE and never to INTEGRATE.

Yet despite all these CONTRADICTIONS in your belief, you still have the mouth to proclaim that God does not exist.

When we meet on the day of resurrection face to face, then you will agree with me that you have allowed your prejudice to tamper with your faculty of reasoning.

Hopefully, this will be my last post for you on this thread. Don't even bother to reply because I won't read it.

Even though we share different believed, I must confessed, you did a good job here, God bless you my friend. thank you.

hopefulLandlord:
In the beginning, man created Yahweh and in the image of man created he him

and the atheists Will want to rewrite Genesis 1:1 like this " in the beginning IT JUST HAPPENED. how did it happened ? by chance ? How can blind chance result in intelligence? I admire this Faith, this Faith is Even stronger than the Christian Faith.

jesusjnr:
Lol!

At least you can see the difference between me and you. I'm quoting the Words of Jesus who you said had already done the work, and you're quoting Titus and Paul.

No wahala don't do what Jesus commanded you so when you appear before Him you tell Him that you did what Titus and Paul told you.

ok

jesusjnr:
Lol!

Look at this one that lacks knowledge of the Truth worrying about someone who does.

Compare the bolded of your saying to this which Jesus said and tell me which is the Truth?

John 5:29 (KJV)

And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Don't do good as Jesus has instructed and then when you appear before Him, you'd tell Him where you got that lie from.

Good works are not the MEANS of salvation (Titus 3:5). Good work are the RESULT of salvation Titus 3:8

Good works are not what a person must do to be saved:
"But to him that WORKETH NOT, but
believeth on Him that justifieth the
ungodly, his faith is counted for
righteousness" (Rom. 4:5).

But good work are what a saved person do, I do Good work, why ? because I am saved:
"This is a faithful saying, and these
things I will that thou affirm constantly,
that they which have believed in God
might be careful to MAINTAIN good
works" Titus 3:8

jesusjnr:
Wahahi I go happy die!

Those who have issues with that is those who laid up treasures for themselves on Earth, but those who laid up treasures for themselves in heaven would even want Him to come this second. {Matthew 6:19-21}

Only that there's still some work left to be done before He comes, if not wetin person dey this rubbish substandard place still dey do?

Home is where the heart is, and the heart is where the treasure is, and my treasure is in heaven, so heaven is where my heart is.

God bless.

Salvation is not based on what we might do; it is based on what Christ has ALREADY DONE (John 19:30). He died for OUR sin. the Quran deny this , it is either you are for God or against Him, you cannot deny the FOUNDATION in which YOUR SALVATION is built upon and hoping to make heaven

Good works are not what a man DOES in order to be SAVED; Good works are what a SAVED MAN DOES
do you believe that Jesus Christ IS God ONLY Solution to your sin ? do you believed that Jesus Christ is the ONLY way to HEAVEN ? if your answer is no then you
( jesusjnr) have no reason to rejoice at the coming of OUR LORD. you must make Him your Lord

Another helpful question that you can ask yourself is this:" If I were to die today and stand before God and He should ask me, “Why should I allow you to enter My holy heaven?” what would your answer be? If your answer in any way points to YOURSELF (my own credentials, my own works, my own religious deeds, etc.) then I am not standing on solid ground.

have you ever seen a sinner sink through a ROCK ? If I had been standing on the sand, I might sink; but, thank God, I am on the Rock of Ages and there is no sinking there. jesusjnr were are you standing ?

cleanvessel:
Serious. Islam is all about killing, torturing and maiming. May God deliver the world from islam.

Those who don't know Islam claim it doesn't contain violence. They are ignorant that the religion itself started with violence when Muhammad was tortured thrice by Jubril to start quranic revelations. Muhammad continued with very serious violence, killing and torturing innocent people as recorded by quran and hadith.

thank you, God will exposed the enemy plan

Justice310:
Lies, lies, lies everywhere. OtemAtum come and here this one o. Jesus saved him abi? And he could not save himsel when he was nailed to the cross.

but JESUS IS ALIVE!!!

Dollarseeker:
that guy is a demonic preacher. I know many of his type on nairaland....there are many fake preachers of the gospel here, who are just preaching what they understand, without full knowledge of the scriptures and guidance by the Holy Spirit.

the good news is that we knows him, he is not to be taken serious. God will guide us