₦airaland Forum

Proudgorgeousga:
there is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his prophet.

God does not have a son

there is only one God

only one true religion Islam

Christianity is false how can God rape a virgin?

the Qur'an record the virgin birth.

PastorAIO:
I didn't say faith is a result of good work.ler me repeat what I said:

I said that works are a necessary expression of true faith without which you know that True Faith doesn't exist.
No smoke, no damp fire .
No works, no Faith.

Smoke doesn't cause fire but smoke is a sure sign of fire.

yes, you are correct, however, work in this context does not mean you are working your way to salvation.

PastorAIO:
You are the one that said the sole purpose of works is to impress and vindicate yourself before other men.

I'm trying to show that this cannot be true as there was no one present when Abraham attempted to slaughter Isaac.

Abraham didn't do it to impress anyone but it was an act that flowed necessarily out of his Faith.

I repeat, works flow out necessarily and subsequently to True Faith.

Abraham’s life was chosen as an example because it wonderfully illustrates what kind of faith-evidencing works James had in mind. Works in James are the outworking of faith; apart from a living faith, they would be dead works. Abraham’s work of faith was seen not only in his obedience to God’s command, but especially in the fact that he believed that God would raise up his son (Genesis 22:5) God had promise that isaac would have children, Abraham believe God even though God told him to kill Isaac, ( how can a dead son bear children ?) Abraham believe God will raised him back to life. Abraham Faith manifest itself when he offer Isaac.

dalaman:
God who punished them were? In the pages of story books abi? Shebi they wrote down stories about their God fighting them and staining his cloth with their blood.

I admire your faith, why you stake your eternity on an incomplete knowledge.

dalaman:
You mean the God you worship that was invented by the ancient Jews? Your God has nothing to do with reality but everything to do with imaginations.

you mean the Jews invent God who will punish them for disobedience ? you atheist had an inadequate concept of God in Christianity. Atheism is a hope-less faith. By contrast, the Christian message, based solidly on the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, gives real hope.

In Romans 4:5 we have a description of the person who is justified freely by God’s grace: "But to him that worketh not , but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

Notice that he is the person THAT DOES NOT WORK! He does not work at all! He is not trusting or counting on anything that he has done. alright, if he does not work, what then does he do ? he BELIEVED. he believe on God who is justified FREELY by His Grace. "who does not work but believe" this tell us that Faith is NOTa work. Rather, faith is resting upon the work of Another. Faith is resting all of one’s weight on the WORTH (the Person, who He is ), on the WORK (what He has done) and on the WORD (what He has said) of Jesus Christ. Faith is non-meritorious.

PastorAIO:
It is the evidence of faith.

Furthermore it is a Necessary evidence of faith.

yes, my faith is not the result of my good work, it is the result of " work" accomplished by someone.

PastorAIO:
So in your understanding which men were Abraham attempting to demonstrate his faith to when he attempted to slaughtering Isaac?

You seem to think works of faith are just for impressing other people, or to vindicate yourself before them.

James' letter suggests to me that the works are a necessary expression of the faith.

That's like saying that a necessary property of triangles is to have a sum of angles equal to 180 degrees. If you hear of a geometric structure whose angles don't add up to 180 degrees then you'll know for sure that it can't be a triangle.

The essence and the expression are inseparable.

Furthermore circumcision was established with Abraham long before mosaic law was established.

Abraham had no one to prove his Faith is real. but when James use Abraham as an example of a saving Faith, the audience in James 2 and the readers understand his point........I cannot draw a 3HD drawing on a 2HD screem.

PastorAIO:
In other words are these 'works if the law' essentials parts of the Faith without which there is no faith.

the key word here is " work" what is your understanding of work ? is it " work is the means of Salvation" or " the evidence of Faith"
if its the means of salvation, the answer to your question is no. but if its the evidence of faith, your answer is yes.

Visitor700:
Where exactly was this mentioned?

which gospel did Allah gave Jesus ? when you say a book is corrupted, this mean the book is the word of God but men corrupted it, you cannot call a false book corrupt, because there is nothing to be corrupted from the beginning because it is a false book. so who corrupted it ? why ? and when ? why will Allah allow mere men to corrupt his word ?

PastorAIO:
As indeed Abraham attempted to sacrifice his son as a demonstration of his faith, a demonstration without which the faith is dead...
Can we also say that the act of circumcision is a demonstration of Faith, a act without which we know that the Faith is dead?

circumcision fall among the category of ceremonial law.........the error Paul correct is that salvation is by the working of the law.........the error James correct, work is unnecessary after a person is save.James wrote how a believer can show his faith ( (justification or vindication before men) so circumcision is NOT the means of salvation, is the evidence of faith ( the necessity of the believer to show that his faith is real, not a dead faith.

Visitor700:
The reason for this is largely due to the changes made to it (the bible) over the centuries.



Where is your proof?

the Quran say the gospel is the word of Allah and nothing can change it. this simply mean that the Quran affirm the gospel.

a man with two children , boy ( 12 years) and girl ( 13 years). after 16 years, someone came and said they are not your children, ofcours you will request for evidence probably a DNA test, if this is not done, their is no way you will accept that this children are not yours. after 600 years Muhammad came and say the Bible is corrupted. As I read the Bible and saw statements like “God is love”; “love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind” [Matt. 22:37 ]; “But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you” [Matt. 5:44 ]. Are these verses part of the corrupted Bible? What was changed? Who changed it? When was it changed? And the question: why did they corrupt it? These are all good questions that I have asked. No one seemed to have the answer.

Responsible:
Since He is the giver and taker of life, why did he need a mere man to carry out the Genocide of 1 Samuel 15?

Also, isn't he trying to violate his own commandment of "Thou Shall Not Kill"? Exodus 20:13

Please enlighten me, not curse/insult.

Thanks.

is the war between the amalakite and Israel or between God and the amalakite ?

the amalakites hated Israel from the beginning so much , the amalikites are not cannanite so Israel is not a threat to them, Israel only request to pass through their land:

number 20:17
“Please let us pass through your land. We will not pass through field or vineyard, or drink water from a well. We will go along the King’s Highway. We will not turn aside to the right hand or to the left until we have passed through your territory.”

now, answer this, if the Israelites and the amalakites were enemy will the Israelite request to pass the land of their enemy ? But the Amalekites really really didn’t like Israel. At the very birth of the nation of Israel, when they came out of Egypt and were at their most vulnerable, before they even got to Sinai and when they didn’t even have any water, the Amalekites came and attacked them. Israel were forced to fight their very first battle, fighting for their lives against the Amalekites, under the leadership of Moses.

the sixth commandment say " thou shall do no murder" its did not say " thou shall not kill" . all murder is killing but not all killing is murder.

watch as atheists ( I mean Nigeria hateatheists ) flock this thread and insult you.

HardMirror:
Please I want to know why Christians come to church and give testimonies about the misfortunes of other people and use it to thank God for their own lives.

E.g you were in a vehicle and several people died and you were part of the few that survived. Then you go to church and praise God for sparing you while others died.

What is the point?

I told a christian sister that I am bothered that Millions don't have food to eat around the world and she said it is really none of my business that I should just thank God for my own life and having food to eat.

I am trying to make sense of this Christian practice.

Cc Lalasticlala, seun

let me ask you this question, those that have died, are you better than them ? if yes, why ? if no, isn't it wonderful to be alive among the living ?

PastorAIO:
Is the faith alone or is it not alone?

faith is not alone, work is the evidence of a saving faith. work in this in this context is not the means of salvation because the save is already saved, when he does good work, he is only proving the evidence of his faith OUTWARDLY.

Galatians 5:6 say " For when we place our faith in Christ Jesus, there is no benefit in being circumcised or being uncircumcised. What is important is faith EXPRESSING itself in love."

James and Paul agreed here. Paul: " when you have faith in Christ Jesus" . James: " you must express the faith in love" a saving faith is accompanied by good work.

LoJ:
Do you mean the Book of romans applies only to the romans? Great!

Then the whole Bible applies to none of us, since it was not directed to any of us.

you are the hearthen, the book of Romans is directed at you and your kind.

LoJ:
I was a pastor/prophet and now I am no atheist.

Where do you source your belief that paul wrote exclusively to the gentiles and James exclusively to the Jews? Why not answer a simple closed question by a yes or no?

Are christians (whether Jews or gentiles) saved by faith alone regardless of their works? Yes or No?

Greetings.

you are a pastor before ? but you are not scriptural sound . the Romans are not Jews, they are the hearthen, Paul condemn their work because of lack of faith, good work done by an unsave man cannot earn him salvation, for salvation is something ONLY God can do. in Paul context, he reject work as the means of salvation. work done by the un save are meritorious work, that is, work done try to merit or earn salvation. salvation is of they Lord ( eph 2:10). in Galatians 5:6 paul agree with James when he taught that good work must accompany a saving faith.

the reason why Paul use Abraham is because Abraham believe God when he was call. the reason why James use Abraham is because Abraham faith was tested. so James complement Paul.

your question does not make sense because you mixed the two context, you assumed that their audience is one which is wrong.

LoJ:
Can you tell us, if christians are saved by faith alone (that is without works) or by faith with works?

are you you're a Christian before you convert to atheist ? you are mixing the context bro. Paul audience is the hearthen why James audience is the Jews. a Christian is save base on the work of Christ , ro prove the evidence of his faith, he must show his work, this is what James is saying.

Paul is telling the hearthen that their work is of no use if they did not have faith in the finish work of Christ. James and Paul complement complem each other . read my reply to pastoraio.

PastorAIO:
To add some spice to the whole question of biblical interpretations and how to interpret bible passages here is a great example of how two people can take the very same bible passage and interpret it to mean 2 diametric contradicting meanings.


Genesis 15: 6

6Then he believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.


Paul takes this passage and interprets it like this:

3For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” 4Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,
Romans 4


James in direct contradiction takes the same passage ( and this part of the reason why scholars think that he particularly has Paul's doctrines in mind when writing) and says:

22You see that his faith was working with his actions, and his faith was perfected by what he did. 23And the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “- Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called a friend of God. 24As you can see, a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone

James 2.


Same passage. 2 totally different doctrines. So much for using the bible to interpret the bible.

you got it wrong bro, if you don't understand context you ask, when the Bible say study to show they self approved, it mean you must know the author intention and knew the audience.

yes, same message, but their audience are DIFFERENT, Paul audience is the hearthen while James audience is the jews.

Paul message to the hearthen: you cannot be save by work. while James message to the Jews: you cannot show that you are save without work.

Paul to the hearrhen: How can a person be saved? By faith alone (Rom. 3:28)

James to the Jews: How can a person show that he is save ? how can he show his faith ? by work ( James 2:18)

Paul: a person is not save by work ( Paul reject work as the mean of salvation)
James: a save person will performed good work, ( James understood work as the RESULT of salvation) a save person does good work because he IS save, NOT because he WANTED to be save, he is ALREADY save.

both Paul and James turn to the life of Abraham to illustrate their point. the emphasis Paul make was that Abraham put his trust on God, thus, Abraham was justified by faith alone. Abraham was NOT justified by the work of the law, but by faith when he believe God.

james emphasized on that work that is outwardly shown and demonstrate ( the evidence of a saving Faith) James 2:18 say : But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." SHOW me your faith without deeds, and I will show you MY FAITH BY MY DEED. this is because Paul say faith is a personal belief that take place in the heart and mind and cannot be seen, God knows our faith but their is no way other people can recognized it unless is being shown by good work. while Paul is dealing with the necessity of faith with God. James is concern of such faith before men and how the believers can prove the evidence of their faith.

PAUL AND JAMES COMPLEMENT EACH OTHER.

777philosopher:
prophet Isaiah only talked about a Virgin given birth to a son. listen, every virgin must be impregnated by a man in order to give birth to a child.

your defence is zoo weak.

777philosopher:
by blood, forget about the fake spiritual birth. no spirit can impregnated human. it was the handiwork of the satanic Catholic church. they forged a fake story like that. the new testament is fake and fraud.

so Isaiah lied when he prophesied the virgin birth ? I think my work here is done. enjoy your day.

777philosopher:
it also applies to him, because Jesus is a descendant of Jeconiah. stop twisting it. it makes no difference

yes , He is a descendant of jaconiah, but by blood or by legal right ?

777philosopher:
you are twisting every thing. you have failed already. the seed of jeconiah means his own descendants forever will be cursed. whether it is Judah. it is still the same. you have to be accepted as the leader of Judah before becoming the king of Israel. stop confusing yourself. Jesus is fake.

I gave you two answers, and all answer is scriptural, yet you came up with this ? very weak defence.


Jeremiah 36:30-31, "Therefore thus saith the LORD of Jehoiakim king of Judah; He shall have none to sit upon the throne of David: and his dead body shall be cast out in the day to the heat, and in the night to the frost. And I will punish him and his SEED and his servants for THEIR INIQUITY.

the " non to sit upon his throne" is referring to non other than kings and servant living during HIS DAYS , why ? because verse 31 tell us which descendant will be punish. Read carefully, God said he’d "punish his seed for THEIR (the seeds’) iniquities," not HIS (king Jehoiakim’s) iniquity. So, only the descendants that commit iniquity will be punished by not sitting upon the throne of David. Since Jesus never committed iniquity, this punishment of not sitting on the throne does not apply to him.

@777philosopher

Jeremiah 22:30, "Thus saith the LORD, Write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper IN HIS DAYS: for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in JUDAH."

There are two points that need to be observed. 1) Notice this is a curse upon the man of Coniah’s seed, and was to last only DURING HIS DAYS, while he was still living. The "man" referred to in "a MAN that shall not prosper in his days" refers to the "man of his seed."
This verse says nothing about this curse being placed upon Coniah’s descendants AFTER his days.
And 2) This curse prevented his seed from ruling JUDAH ONLY. In Luke 1:33, it says "Jesus shall reign over the house of Jacob," not Judah. Judah was destroyed in 70AD, and 70AD is when Jesus did fully reign. It wasn’t until the destruction of Jerusalem and Judah in 70AD that Jesus put all enemies under his footstool. Judah has not existed since 70AD.

777philosopher:
prophet Isaiah only talked about a Virgin given birth to a son. listen, every virgin must be impregnated by a man in order to give birth to a child.

how can you call a virgin that was pregnant a virgin? does it make sense ? even you can prophesied this, I can prophesied that a virgin girl will be pregnanted by a man. Isaiah know what he was talking about.

777philosopher:
that is a big lie . he is the biological son of Joseph. no thing on earth had happened like that. a spirit can not impregnate a human. it was the handiwork of the satanic Catholic church. they forged a fake story like that. the new testament is fake and fraud.

then, you are calling the old testament prophet, Isaiah a lies , or you don't believe the book of Isaiah ?

777philosopher:
Jesus is cursed. his ancestor -Jeconiah, also called “Jehoiachin” ( 1 Chronicles 3:16, NIV) and “Coniah” ( Jeremiah 22:24), was a king of Judah who was deported as part of the Babylonian captivity ( Esther 2:6 ; 1 Chronicles 3:17 ). He is also listed in the genealogy of Jesus, in Joseph’s family line ( Matthew 1:12 ).
The curse of Jeconiah is found in
Jeremiah 22. First, the LORD likens the king to a signet ring on God’s hand—a ring that God will pull off (verse 24). Then, God pronounces a curse: “Record this man as if childless, a man who will not prosper in his lifetime, for none of his offspring will prosper, none will sit on the throne of David or rule anymore in Judah” (verse 30).
The problem is that the curse of Jeconiah seems to invalidate Jesus’ right to the throne of David. The Davidic Covenant promised that the Messiah, the “Son of David,” would reign forever on Jerusalem’s throne ( 1 Chronicles 17:11-14 ). If Jesus is a descendant of Jeconiah, then how can He be the Messiah, since the curse bars any of Jeconiah’s descendants from assuming David’s throne?

ahh, this boy. you have a lot to learn.

Jesus bypassed this curse because Jesus is not the biological son of joseph, or is Jesus who was conceived by a virgin be an offspring of “Jehoiachin”?

dp

777philosopher:
he is not the son of God. the satanic European bible scholars and Catholic church has told you lies. Do you know that Jesus learnt occult mysteries in India, And Egypt? his death was not accepted before God. God does not accept human sacrifice.

the old testament foreshadowed the entire ministry of Jesus in the new testament. you cannot condemn one part and accept the other part.
"Has this house, which is called by My name, become a den of robbers in your sight? Behold, I, even I, have seen it," declares the LORD. (Jeremiah 7:11 )

this prophecy was fulfilled during the ministry of Jesus.

And He said to them, "It is written, `My house shall be called a house of prayer'; but you are making it a robbers' den." ( Matthew 21:13 )

so your thread does not make sense bro.

777philosopher:
only the Old Testament is the Only Holy way of worship.

the new testament fulfill the old testament prophecy, and when a prophecy is fulfilled, we move on from the fulfillment at that point in time.

“‘The day will come,’ says the Lord, ‘when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah. . . . But this is the new covenant I will make with the people of Israel on that day,’ says the Lord. ‘I will put my law in their minds, and I will write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people’” (Jeremiah 31:31 , 33 )

Jesus is the meditator of the new convanant.