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Christianity EtcComparison Of Proof Of God, Jesus, Mohammed And Great Mortal Men by Martinez19(op): 12:35pm On Jan 16, 2019
COMPARING THE PROOFS OF RELIGIOUS GOD, JESUS, MOHAMMED AND GREAT MORTAL MEN.

When it comes to religious debates between atheists and theists, one bone of contention is the question of evidence. Before I go into the comparison of the proofs of god, Jesus, Muhammed and great mortal men, I would like to make something clear about the definition of atheism and the burden of proof. Atheism is a DISBELIEF (NOT A BELIEF) , in the existence of god(s)/supreme deitie(s). Believing in something is different from disbelieving in something even though both must happen for a reason - good or stvpid. Why don't atheists believe in Jesus and Yahweh? Atheists don't believe (ie. disbelieve) the christian god(called Yahweh), Jesus and the claims of the bible because there are no sound evidences to support such claims and ideas. In foolishness, I hope it is clear to christians that atheism is not a belief system because I know many will feign ignorance because boxing atheism together with religion is a precious leverage they have in religious arguments and they don't want to let go of that leverage because once it is shattered they have very little to say as defence. Also, to them, it's not about reasoning but saying something.

Another thing I would like to correct is where the burden of proof lies ie. who has the responsibility of proving religious claims? in fact, who has something to prove? Is it the atheist or the christian? It is the christian. Why is that so? because the christian is the one with the claim and if you make a claim, it's your duty to prove and defend it. Imagine I came to you and said "hey, purple unicorns exist. I know they exist," you would, if you are not retarded, ask why(my proof or evidence) I said so because, already, you don't believe in pink unicorns because you have no reasons to. It would be a dishonesty bordering on lunacy for me to reply "they exist because you can't disprove the existence of unicorns ie. you can't prove unicorns don't exist" rather than give my proof. It's the duty of those who make the claim to prove their claim. If can't give my proof, I shouldn't look at people who doubt the existence of pink unicorns as foolish, unreasonable or mentally deficient. In fact, if you can't prove your claims, don't expect anyone to believe your claims. A lot of christian do that a lot when it comes to atheism, they ask us to prove that their god doesn't exist.

If someone says "I don't believe in god because there are no evidences to support the existence of god," there is no problem and such a person has nothing to prove but if you say "I believe in the existence of Yahweh, Jesus and the bible," you just made a claim and it's your responsibility to prove it. If you can't prove your claim, do not expect anyone to believe it. Christians who have read what I wrote would still feign ignorance and classify atheism as a religion so that they and atheists can be on the same page and they can accuse atheists of logical fallacies they are guilty of as if it proves their sacred beliefs. This shows that they are not after reasoning but feel safe in numbers. If not, why try to dishonestly make out atheism to be a belief system. Even if atheism is a belief system, it still won't make christianity true.

In summary, atheism is not a belief that there is no god and we have nothing to prove. The duty of proving the existence of god lies on the christian. Asking atheist to prove that god doesn't exist is an irrational thing to say.

Now, let's go into the proof for god, Jesus, Muhammad and great mortal men...

EducationRe: Sobbing SA Teacher: A Photo Of Happy Children 'was Used Against Me' (NEW Photos) by Martinez19(m): 10:59am On Jan 16, 2019
MyGeneration:
I know a man that lives in a batcher with 9children 8girls and one boy. Guess where those girls would end up. During the early stage they are made house maids then when they grow up only a few live a reasonable life odas become pregnant and start another circle of poverty or become prostitutes
As in.
Christianity EtcRe: Crazy Things That Religious People Believe - Add Yours by Martinez19(m): 8:29pm On Jan 15, 2019
XxSabrinaxX:
My favourite parts of the bible are when Jesus is alone talking to God (himself) and someone who wasn't there wrote about it
grin grin grin
As Tozara(Tollzara) said, only writers of fiction write from an omnipresent perspective.
CelebritiesRe: #10yearschallenge : Adesua Etomi Shares 10 Years Throwback Photos by Martinez19(m): 7:10pm On Jan 15, 2019
Melian:
I'm not a fan but one has to be pretty objective. This is the most beautiful 10 years challenge ever posted or reported.
I agree. Just when I thought Juliet Ibrahim was going to carry the day.
Christianity EtcRe: Crazy Things That Religious People Believe - Add Yours by Martinez19(m): 6:38pm On Jan 15, 2019
TATIME:
The Bible never say anything about gravity on any other planets, it's what i learnt back in school. So it has not flopped in anyway! wink wink
Regarding the Questions and Answers,they're just so many that i can't list everything here.
Note that i never said science is useless, but when it comes to choosing between science and the Bible i'll go for the Bible! smiley smiley smiley
Lol. You quoted an unrelated bible verse to support a failed claim. It seems you have confused presence of life for gravity. Besides, there are many solar systems and galaxies. Why would your god waste time creating other planets and galaxies when he could have created just earth?

You don't have to bring all of them, just bring at least the top five and let's discuss.
PhonesRe: What Phone Or Phones Were you Using Ten(10) Years Ago?? by Martinez19(m): 6:12pm On Jan 15, 2019
I can't remember the Samsung model but it was a slide(whatever it is called) phone with metal body.
Christianity EtcRe: Crazy Things That Religious People Believe - Add Yours by Martinez19(m): 5:56pm On Jan 15, 2019
TATIME:
Earth is the ONLY planet where life has been found so far. Genesis 1:27-30
And your claim that planets collided is based on assumptions not SEEN! Earth is also a planet and nothing has affected it all these while. Psalms 78:69,104:5,119:90
All other planets have no gravitational force keep objects to it's surface unlike our earth. Psalms 115:16
I know you've studied science and so much rely on it,that's good but there are so many things found in that ancient book that's just beyond the reasoning of those ancient people who don't even know anything about the laws of nature! Certainly a highly intelligent being is behind their writings!
The embodiment of irrational and bias.

Let's assume that the earth is the only planet that has life. If a living was to create a scam, the scam would therefore be created and perpetrated on earth. If the Quran says that earth is the only place where you can find life, would you believe the Quran?

My claim on planet orbiting the sun and colliding with other planets is based on the theory of general relativity which has been proven to be true. As I explained, planets move in elliptical orbits due to the sun's gravity and will only collide with another planet if their orbits intersect and they simultaneously reach the point of intersection. The earth's orbit and that of the other eight planets did not have their elliptical orbits intersecting with others so they kept moving undisturbed whereas those that did collided and cancelled out each other. Upon collision, they disintegrated into small rocks called asteroids. Your ignorance of science is really getting to you.

@bold
grin That's blatantly false. Gravity is a consequence of mass. Every planet has its gravitational force but not all planets have the conditions necessary for life. Can you see how your divinely inspired holy book just flopped? grin

... but there are so many things found in that ancient book that's just beyond the reasoning of those ancient people who don't even know anything about the laws of nature! Certainly a highly intelligent being is behind their writings!
Can you list those things and answers given in the Holy book?
EducationRe: Sobbing SA Teacher: A Photo Of Happy Children 'was Used Against Me' (NEW Photos) by Martinez19(m): 5:31pm On Jan 15, 2019
computergeek:
I don't know if it's just me, but did anyone else read a part where she gave a concrete reason as to why she separated the children?

Singing your own praises and blowing your fake trumpet won't change the fact that you're racist, Madam.

She should be fired ASAP.
Lol. I was about to type the same thing. I didn't see any concrete reason for the separation of white kids from black kids other than her emotional yada yada. Perhaps it's the bloggers at work.
EducationRe: Sobbing SA Teacher: A Photo Of Happy Children 'was Used Against Me' (NEW Photos) by Martinez19(m): 5:18pm On Jan 15, 2019
victrick105:
Blacks do something relevant to attract world respect, they won't do,
Blacks stop producing baby's you can't take care of, they won't stop.
Blacks use the resources in your countries to develop your continent, they won't, instead they prefer to loot and be greedy.
Blacks learn to love each other, they won't, but you keep hearing of xenophobic attack amongst themselves.

Africans are becoming irrelevant and constituting a nuisance to the world, they love complaining, attracting unnecessary pity towards themselves and always playing the victims card... Is it not this same black South Africans that are launching xenophobic attack against other black nations that are now crying racism, it is mostly the white South Africans that have achieved reasonable things for there country, the other ones just have mass and are there to occupy space and complain

Until the black race develop mentally, politically, economically and otherwise, the world will continue to be racial towards blacks and see them as inferior and irrelevant.
As in. When you tell the poverty stricken ones not to give birth to children they can't take care of, they think you are enemy of progress and you are judging and mocking them. It's emotions above reasoning and vanity. They want to marry and born to show off and because they think it's this ultimate achievement that crowns a man's life.
Christianity EtcRe: Crazy Things That Religious People Believe - Add Yours by Martinez19(m): 5:05pm On Jan 15, 2019
Frosbel2, XxSabrinaxX, Michellekabod, LordReed, budaatum, Dantedasz, HellVictorinho
grin

Christianity EtcRe: Crazy Things That Religious People Believe - Add Yours by Martinez19(m): 5:01pm On Jan 15, 2019
TATIME:
That's why i said earlier that the Bible also said so many things that's UNBELIEVABLE but the way it explains things has remained UNCHANGEABLE and UNCHALLENGED.
It says God formed all these existing creatures out of dust and they're returning to dust. Science says it's evolution but can't explains further why man is the strongest as in the dominant creature,the Bible explains that God gave everything into the hands of Man.
Science says there was a BIG BANG but can't explains further how the forces of nature has maintained it's balance after the so called BIG BANG. Bible explains that God positioned each planet in their present state and even calls them by name! Please if truly it all began by chance as Science claimed, why is it that all the bodies in the space have remained in their positions so that NO fatal accident has ever been recorded? What i meant is that our solar system has NO record of one planet colliding against another? So that we will throw away our Bibles that claims God(an intelligent mind) has set everything in place? Isaiah 40:26
Please there's more to this than merely contemplating on the atrocities of religion to discard what the Bible says! wink wink wink
The reason why humans are "better" than most animals is the same reason why a gorilla is "better" than a tilapia. An organism had to come out "on top" and it happened to be man. Don't start feeling too special.

Planets don't collide because their paths are guided in their elliptical orbits by the sun's gravity and planets that collide have cancelled out each other leaving those that don't to continue orbiting the sun. Those that collided disintegrated in smaller rocks that went to the sun or other planet or ended up as asteroids.

I don't get your question concerning the big bang. You see, your ignorance of science does not make the bible true. Go and study science.
Christianity EtcRe: Crazy Things That Religious People Believe - Add Yours by Martinez19(m): 3:15pm On Jan 15, 2019
TATIME:
I would have believed if i see just one creature that EVOLVES today. The Bible also spoke of so many things that's UNBELIEVABLE but the explanations found in it remains UNCHANGEABLE and Unchallenged. So while Science has knowledge "accumulation of useful information" Bible has the Wisdom "practical applications of accumulated information for lasting benefits".
That's why i will drop science whenever the two are at logger heads! wink wink wink
Lol. That's science. Have you seen god mold a man from dust and breath the breath of life into him? Science has evidence for it's claims, the bible has no single evidence.
Christianity EtcRe: The Kaleidoscope-why I dumped Christianity by Martinez19(m): 11:47am On Jan 15, 2019
PastorAIO:
I would love to read this interaction. any links?
It's been a long time, I can't remember. The discussion had nothing to do with religion or atheism.
Christianity EtcRe: The Kaleidoscope-why I dumped Christianity by Martinez19(m): 10:58am On Jan 15, 2019
HenryDion:
Leave me ooh.. cheesy cheesy

Most times it's just for the fun.. That's how i deal with boredom most times grin
grin
Christianity EtcRe: The Kaleidoscope-why I dumped Christianity by Martinez19(m): 10:54am On Jan 15, 2019
HenryDion:
Well, we all had something that triggered our awareness. I'm happy for her. Whenever a female become an atheist, i tend to get a hard on immediately. cheesy It is a rare occurrence, African women especially.
Lol. grin
Christianity EtcRe: The Kaleidoscope-why I dumped Christianity by Martinez19(m): 10:54am On Jan 15, 2019
HenryDion:
Well, we all had something that triggered our awareness. I'm happy for her. Whenever a female become an atheist, i tend to get a hard on immediately. cheesy It is a rare occurrence.
Do you remember that our first encounter with insults? "you are just as smart as your English" remember? grin
Christianity EtcRe: The Kaleidoscope-why I dumped Christianity by Martinez19(m): 10:37am On Jan 15, 2019
HenryDion:
I don't understand this thread. Like, you require all these experiences before you could dump the xtain god ass? You're more like a misotheist, someone who hates god because he failed to meet your expectations.

I'm an atheist simple because there is no proof to support such ridiculousness. The loopholes and inconsistencies that comes with their religious texts is a pointer to that fact. Religion was created by primitive middle east desert men, to control people with primitive and limited thinking ability, using an old age technique of 'carrot and stick'.

That is, using fake threat of extreme fear, coupled with extreme fake reward.

Anyone who still buy into that bullshit is nothing but a result of infant indoctrination, whose fear of hell is so overwhelming that he might never let go for fear of eternal suffering. Religion is an insult to human intellect.
I think she is sharing the experiences that placed doubt in her mind and her experiences as a christian.
CelebritiesRe: Bisi Alimi 10 Years Challenge Photos Have Got People Talking by Martinez19(m): 10:30am On Jan 15, 2019
hahn:
.
grin grin I am not a homophobe but damn I just have to laugh at certain throwbacks of Bob Risky and Bisi Alimi.
EducationRe: ASUU Strike Has Nothing To Do With Student's Welfare by Martinez19(m): 10:19am On Jan 15, 2019
Lol. Misinformation. Our universities need to be upgraded. Perhaps you lack exposure.
CelebritiesRe: See Kylie Jenner Epic Response To Losing 'most Liked Instagram Photo' To An Egg. by Martinez19(m): 10:01am On Jan 15, 2019
Rextizz:
Bitch she's a hoe, all kadashians are hoes
There is nothing wrong in being a hoe. It's a fundamental human right. As long as they don't force you to date or marry them against your will, face front.
CelebritiesRe: See Kylie Jenner Epic Response To Losing 'most Liked Instagram Photo' To An Egg. by Martinez19(m): 9:50am On Jan 15, 2019
Rextizz:
She's rich no doubt, but she's a bitch, a siliconed bîtch, fvcking fake.

btw I already know you are a hoe, so what's your pricehuh
Stop saying that, why are you using your unrealistic standard to judge others. Is it a crime to have silicone boobs and butt? Is it not her body? If she's a hoe, is she hoeing with another person's vagina? The girl is self made and enjoying her daughter and boyfriend while people are just angry that the universe did not follow their standard of meritocracy to favour the holy ones and punish the so called hoes. grin
CelebritiesRe: See Kylie Jenner Epic Response To Losing 'most Liked Instagram Photo' To An Egg. by Martinez19(m): 9:42am On Jan 15, 2019
Earthbound:
Call me a hater but it hurts that this girl is almost a billionaire from being a little slut
The universe does not follow your standard of meritocracy. Those that can take will receive. Jenner gave and offered smartly and she has received in abundance. That's how the world works. If you like stay there and be doing holy holy, traditional and be vex over someone's success, you go rot. wink
Christianity EtcRe: Crazy Things That Religious People Believe - Add Yours by Martinez19(m): 9:22am On Jan 15, 2019
TATIME:
First of all let me say "You are highly welcome into this podium Mr/Mrs/Ms Martinez!" This is Tatime and please do pardon my half baked English, it's not as polished as that of other motivational speakers you might have met before in RELIGION.
Bible students don't drop science as you thought, we only uphold the Bible in high esteem than anything else. In fact we've made the best use of science to enlighten our neighbors,and in most cases science has been helpful in the dissemination of our messages.
The first and foremost parts of the Bible were written on scrolls by HAND copyists,later PRINTED and combined in paper volumes, the electronic devices used in printing millions of copies and today soft copies are found on mobile phones, tablets and computers. All these are made easy due to SCIENCE!
So it's unwise for a Bible student to say science has done nothing when we can SEE all of these. What we are saying is it's totally a blunder to allow SCIENCE to shapen the thoughts, words and actions of intelligent beings, that will be DISASTROUS! wink wink wink
Do you believe evolution and the big bang are scientific facts? grin
Christianity EtcRe: Crazy Things That Religious People Believe - Add Yours by Martinez19(m): 9:17am On Jan 15, 2019
XxSabrinaxX:
LMAO!! First of all, calm down grin grin. Its not a fight lol. Second of all, how do you define God's characteristics then, because I'm very sure, according to your bible, God is a tri-omni being.

He IS omniscient
Psalm 147:5
Great is our Lord and abundant in strength; His understanding is infinite.

1 John 3:20
in whatever our heart condemns us; for God is greater than our heart and knows all things.

Psalm 139:1-4
Even before there is a word on my tongue, Behold, O LORD, You know it all.

Matthew 10:30
"But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.

Psalm 147:4
He counts the number of the stars; He gives names to all of them.

Hebrews 4:13
And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.

Psalm 139:1-3
O LORD, You have searched me and known me. You know when I sit down and when I rise up; You understand my thought from afar. You scrutinize my path and my lying down, And are intimately acquainted with all my ways.

Psalm 44:21
Would not God find this out? For He knows the secrets of the heart.


He IS omnipotent
Jeremiah 32:17
‘Ah, Lord God! It is you who have made the heavens and the earth by your great power and by your outstretched arm! Nothing is too hard for you.

Job 42:2
“I know that you can do all things, and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted.

John 1:3
All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Luke 18:27
But he said, “What is impossible with men is possible with God.”

Isaiah 45:7
I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the Lord, who does all these things.

Genesis 1:1-31
In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day. ...

Ephesians 3:20
Now to him who is able to do far more abundantly than all that we ask or think, according to the power at work within us,

Matthew 19:26
But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Numbers 23:19
God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?

Luke 1:37
For nothing will be impossible with God.”


He IS omnibenevolent
Psalm 145:17
The Lord is righteous in all his ways and kind in all his works.

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

James 1:17
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change.

Romans 10:1-21
Brothers, my heart's desire and prayer to God for them is that they may be saved. For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. For Moses writes about the righteousness that is based on the law, that the person who does the commandments shall live by them. ...

Genesis 1:31
And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.

Isaiah 45:7
I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the Lord, who does all these things.

Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.



Clearly, you're the one who's wrong.
cheesy nice one!

Christianity EtcRe: Crazy Things That Religious People Believe - Add Yours by Martinez19(m): 9:12am On Jan 15, 2019
TATIME:
They may claim to be OLDER,it's just a pity that the ONLY logic to settle that is what your folks are questioning now!
If there is a dispute over the ownership of a land,the judges will demand for the HISTORY of that particular land and whoever knows the origin of the first settlers is the rightful owner!
Let them claim to be OLDER than Christianity, but let them answer how man got here? If they're truthfully older than Christianity. Note that Christianity is just a CONTINUATION of an ancient form of worship!
So don't think it just began when Jesus was born, for He said "i've not come to abolish what has been established but to fulfill it", therefore let them present better explanations on all the topics that the Bible has mentioned!
shocked cheesy grin

Christianity EtcRe: Crazy Things That Religious People Believe - Add Yours by Martinez19(m): 8:50am On Jan 15, 2019
TATIME:
There you go again!
Well my God doesn't order me to kill!
In fact it is boldly written in HIS law "Don't Kill" undecided undecided undecided
Israelites returned to the land HE gave them but found settlers already occupying the land,all of them have heard how HE brought these people out of Egypt with a mighty hand WITHOUT A MILITARY FORCE.
So while some INTELLIGENT ones decided to leave or beg for where to stay, unintelligent ones wanna put up a fight,of course they're still thinking all what happened was coincidental so HE ordered the Israelites to stand and face them so that they may realise it's not just a coincidence!
But today,HE has sent HIS son and HIS worshippers are everywhere, moreover HE is ready to send angels to exterminate disobedient ones. So our work now is to warn you NOT to kill you,as for whoever ignore or reject the warnings it's ANGELS that are coming to wipe them off!
Before you believed all you typed, were they demonstrated? grin
Christianity EtcRe: Crazy Things That Religious People Believe - Add Yours by Martinez19(m): 8:47am On Jan 15, 2019
HellVictorinho:
He is proud of his God.
You mean his undemonstrated god? grin cheesy

Christianity EtcRe: Crazy Things That Religious People Believe - Add Yours by Martinez19(m): 8:43am On Jan 15, 2019
TATIME:
Neither was the BIG BANG from some documents written by humans like you and i DEMONSTRATED. It's all believing in documents written by humans who lived before you and i. So i think it's the PRACTICAL APPLICATIONS of what's written that could resolve this issue,NOT unwarranted arguments! wink wink wink
So what's the lasting benefit of your so called BIG BANG? cheesy cheesy cheesy
grin grin grin haba!

Christianity EtcRe: Crazy Things That Religious People Believe - Add Yours by Martinez19(m): 8:40am On Jan 15, 2019
TATIME:
What do you expect? That i should be restricted to a document that you don't regard? Come on! You're a scholar from a faculty that teaches people reliance on intellect!
So let's test how beneficial your accumulated info could be to yourself and others! wink wink wink
Are you for real? grin

Christianity EtcRe: Crazy Things That Religious People Believe - Add Yours by Martinez19(m): 8:36am On Jan 15, 2019
TATIME:
Neither was the BIG BANG from some documents written by humans like you and i DEMONSTRATED. It's all believing in documents written by humans who lived before you and i. So i think it's the PRACTICAL APPLICATIONS of what's written that could resolve this issue,NOT unwarranted arguments! wink wink wink
So what's the lasting benefit of your so called BIG BANG? cheesy cheesy cheesy
If both biblical and scientific documents are undemonstrated, as you claim, why pick the bible and drop science? Why not drop the bible and pick science?

If you can pick a biblical document that is undemonstrated, why should you have a problem with "undemonstrated" scientific documents? Why even choose something that is undemonstrated?
Christianity EtcRe: The Kaleidoscope-why I dumped Christianity by Martinez19(m): 7:35am On Jan 15, 2019
Michellekabod1:
Memories
Memories could be spontaneous, contrary to the belief that memories are triggered when we cross paths with event, persons or places that relates to a particular event etched in our subconscious mind.

Out of the blue an occurrence replayed in my mind today.

I came back home from school on a sunny day to hear mum's chirpy voice. She spoke happily as though the person at the other end of the phone was inviting her for a job interview. She hung up.

Eavesdropping was never my thing,so I asked her what the good news was.
"He has finally confessed,Aunty Ngozi houseboy confessed that he has been holding their blessings spiritually" she said. "How come he confessed?" I inquired. "Your aunt and I discussed sometime back and she told me that her pastor said that the only way to have him confess was to starve him for days and lock him up" she said happily. "And aunty took him to the church?" "Yes, they had to beat, starve him for up to two days and lock him up before he confessed" she said.
This was good news to us all that a boy younger than twelve was tortured. Every one jubilated at this.

I can't fathom what weakened my conscience that I didn't find this disturbing.
Sheer logic recently made me realize that it is absurd to torture a kid to confess for participating in witchcraft.
If I were starved for a day and isolated even without being beaten I would confess to witchcraft in a jiffy even though am innocent to have something to eat at least. So taking the confession of a kid to be true after subjecting the child to such inhumane act is stupid!

And this was orchestrated by a man of God! Damn...I feel irritated as I type.

It baffles me how people go to bizzare lengths to have witches/wizards confess when there is God who is omniscient and can reveal things to them. Some claim they know but want the accused to confess with their very own lips. Of what use is the confession? As simple as it could be if you suspect your house help is a witch/wizard send him/her packing.

Cc: hardmirror,hahn, lordreed, Martinez19,raptex,jesusjnr, ranchhoddas, CAPSLOCKED
This is why atheists keep bashing religion. Unfortunately, some religiotards keep saying "if atheist don't believe in god then why are they bashing religion and god?" things like this are why we bash magical thinking.
Christianity EtcRe: The Origin Of Madness : The Three Smart Crooks by Martinez19(op):
NB: this is fiction and it's under no obligation to conform with reality.

CHAPTER EIGHT : setting up Mattan to fail.

There has never been a time like this, a time when the king was limited in control and had to play along with the people for the fear of losing his throne or even being killed. The people, for now, had formed a structure where the three friends were the new kings(unofficially) with a greater power and control over the people. The king would not back down easily as he sort to salvage the people from the blasphemy of the three friends and return the people back to their former ways for both sincere and political reasons. Two days after Mattan's confrontation, he ordered the five scholars to present themselves for a secret meeting in his inner chamber to discuss his goal. The meeting took place in the morning.

KING : I am at lost on this issue and I have called you here for us to figure out how to get rid of the blasphemy in our land. I believe you guys are on the same page with me since I noticed you all were not awestruck at the blasphemy from the cursed mouth of Mattan. Are you guys for him?

ALL SCHOLARS : No our Lord.

KING : I am delighted to hear that I have people on my side and not just that, they are the best brains in the land. How do you suppose we deal with Mattan and expose him?

ATHEIST SCHOLAR 1 : it's simple but hard. Mattan ideas, though not true, are original and have taken the masses by storm. Soldiers, former priests, the people, the royal family except the king and elites are now among his followers. Why don't we attempt to assassinate him?

KING : well, luckily for me Jothem is still loyal to me even though he now pretends to join them in order to act as my spy. Jothem told me that the three friends are heavily guarded by the soldiers and an assassination would be almost impossible. It's too risky because if I fail, they would trace it me and that would mean death for me. Is there anything else that can be done?

ATHEIST SCHOLAR 2 : our main enemy here are not the three friends but a belief system that has captured the mind of the people. All that matters to the human mind is conviction. It doesn't matter whether there is evidence or not, once the human mind is convinced of something, there is nothing one can do to stop it from acting out on what it is convinced of. If we can plant doubts in their minds about their belief system, we can beat the three friends. How about that your highness?

KING : well, wouldn't that be a red flag? Questioning and doubting their beliefs is a sin to them for the obvious reason of keeping them bound to their beliefs. They would kill us if we started questioning their beliefs and countering it?

ATHEIST SCHOLAR 2 : that's true my king, their emotions and stupidity are ahead of them in this aspect and they've left no room for critical thinking. We shall be wise and strategic about it.

KING : how do you suppose we go about that?

ALL SCHOLARS : (silent for thirty seconds and look at each other for answers).

ATHEIST SCHOLAR 3 : (finally speaks out) what if we set them up to fail and when they do, we emphasis on that failure to tarnish their creator's image? If that can be done, then the friends are in trouble.

KING : how can we do that?

ATHEIST SCHOLAR 3 : remember, your grace, that we have a war with the Edenians in the next two days over who shall own the Palyesan land and Kochal peninsula. We shall call Mattan and act like we are for his creator and we shall ask him to give us the creator's blessings and predict if his creator shall deliver a great victory for us. Of course, we shall be defeated given that we are outnumbered; they have better weapons and horses and our soldiers are bothering themselves with Mattan's ideas instead of preparing for battle but Mattan doesn't know this information.

ATHEIST SCHOLAR 4 : after going through Mattan's ideas for the past four days, I know that he is indeed a man of excuses and cunning ways. To make it more tempting, unsuspecting and inescapable for him, we shall call the people together on that day of war but before that, we give out false information that the Edenians are outnumbered by our soldiers and we are superior in all aspects. We shall make it look like there is a 100% chance of winning. Rather than resort to excuses, he will be tempted to prophesy and proclaim, based on our false information, that his creator shall grant us victory. He will be so tempted to do so in hope that when we win, which we will not, he would have his "I told you so" moment and further bind the people to himself. We shall take advantage of his lust for power and deceitful ways.

KING : (very glad) a very good idea indeed. I shall pounce on him when he fails and tear him to shreds. I just hope this plan cannot fail for I can't wait to behead the three crooks for challenging my sovereignty.

ATHEIST SCHOLAR 1 : my Lord, Mattan will most likely fall into our trap for it is in the mind of a crooked prophet to capitalise on what outcome seems very very likely and speak about that outcome with certainty while claiming it was revealed to him. Such instances are golden opportunities for crooked prophets as it helps in building their credibility and that's the time when they speak with certainty rather than vague words and you can clearly hold them responsible if their prophecies fail. This is how Mattan is sure to act. He won't see this coming. When he fails, we shall pounce on him and emphasis on his failure and that of his creator and plant doubts in the people's minds.

KING : (excited) indeed. If he falls, I shall have no mercy. Who is in charge disseminating military information to the public?

ATHEIST SCHOLAR 5 : (stands and bows to the king) I am my lord since the General was brutally murdered.

KING : very well then, you shall speak to Mattan this evening and tell him that there is a battle and you need the soldiers to fight. Make sure he thinks that you believe in his creator.

ATHEIST SCHOLAR 5 : I shall do that my Lord. (bows).

KING : also do not forget to spread the misinformation that our troops are certain to win and that there's nothing to fear. Anything else before we call it a day?

ATHEIST SCHOLAR 3 : my king, though we have a good plan that would must likely work and wouldn't turn the people against us if Mattan doesn't fall as we want him, what about our soldiers that are going to die because we are trying to test Mattan? It is a suicide mission for them, you know my Lord?

KING : why would I care about those traitors?

ATHEIST SCHOLAR 5 : my Lord, I think he is concerned about how we shall replace the fallen soldiers. We need not worry since there are able-bodied men in the lower class. We must hope our plan succeeds lest we be replacing idiots with another set of idiots.

KING : I hope so too. Any plan B incase this doesn't work?

ATHEIST SCHOLAR 1 : coming up plan B won't be hard but let us focus on this first plan for time is short.

KING : very well then, go and carry out my instructions. That's enough for today, you may all leave.

ALL SCHOLARS : (stand up, bow and leave the king's inner chamber).

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

On their way out, the scholars had a short discussion of their own.

ATHEIST SCHOLAR 4 : did you listen when the king said that Mattan was protected by soldiers? Why would a priest of the most powerful and all loving creator need soldiers to protect him?

ATHEIST SCHOLAR 2 : that's because Mattan knows his creator doesn't exist? That should be a red flag to his sheeples that something is wrong, why don't they see that?

ATHEIST SCHOLAR 1 : they don't see it as a red flag because of their unparalleled stvpidity. Such will repeat itself from generations to generations because stvpid genes begat stvpid people. It's the same reason why they never asked Mattan for evidences of his claims. Mattan was guilty of commiting logical fallacies during the clash in the royal court two days ago.

ATHEIST SCHOLAR 4 : the indoctrination of their silly offspring won't help matters. Let's quit talking and go do the king's biddings.

ALL SCHOLARS : (go their separate ways).

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

The fifth scholar, whose name is Maron, went to Mattan that same evening to inform him about upcoming war and he thought it best to relay to Mattan the likely outcome of the battle rather than inform the people first. He did it for a purpose and it worked.

MARON : (enters Mattan's house). you guys are surely well guarded. I had to overcome the suspicious eyes of the crowd; make it clear to them that I am for the creator and endure being searched by your fierce guards.

ZADOK : what do you what?

MARON : I came to ask for you priests to persuade the soldiers to gather and fight because we have a war in two days against the Edenians over the ownership of the great Palyesan land and Kochal peninsula.

MATTAN : what are likelihood of the we coming out on top?

MARON : 100%

MATTAN : have you shared this information with the people yet?

MARON : no.

MATTAN : (closes his eyes and pretends that he got a revelation. He then lies). what a time to be alive in the history of our kind that not only has the creator revealed himself, he has also orchestrated a great victory for his people to show them his might. I shall address the people myself and tell them the victory that the creator has orchestrated for his people. In fact it was revealed to me, this morning, by the creator that there was a victory in war coming in the next two days. Isn't that so?

ZADOK & ACHIM : of course!

MARON : (not buying the lie but had to play along) indeed ye are mighty priests of a great creator.

MATTAN : you may leave. We shall handle sharing the information to the people.

MARON : be sure to inform the king on that day about what the creator has done for him. (bows and leaves)

THE THREE FRIENDS : we will.

MARON : (leaves).

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

After meeting the three friends and walking back home, Maron, delighted, thought to himself.

MARON : (thinking to himself) I have you where I want and the king shall pounce upon you in no time. How shall you escape from this now that you have fallen?

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