Martinez19's Posts
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COMPARING THE PROOFS OF RELIGIOUS GOD, JESUS, MOHAMMED AND GREAT MORTAL MEN. When it comes to religious debates between atheists and theists, one bone of contention is the question of evidence. Before I go into the comparison of the proofs of god, Jesus, Muhammed and great mortal men, I would like to make something clear about the definition of atheism and the burden of proof. Atheism is a DISBELIEF (NOT A BELIEF) , in the existence of god(s)/supreme deitie(s). Believing in something is different from disbelieving in something even though both must happen for a reason - good or stvpid. Why don't atheists believe in Jesus and Yahweh? Atheists don't believe (ie. disbelieve) the christian god(called Yahweh), Jesus and the claims of the bible because there are no sound evidences to support such claims and ideas. In foolishness, I hope it is clear to christians that atheism is not a belief system because I know many will feign ignorance because boxing atheism together with religion is a precious leverage they have in religious arguments and they don't want to let go of that leverage because once it is shattered they have very little to say as defence. Also, to them, it's not about reasoning but saying something. Another thing I would like to correct is where the burden of proof lies ie. who has the responsibility of proving religious claims? in fact, who has something to prove? Is it the atheist or the christian? It is the christian. Why is that so? because the christian is the one with the claim and if you make a claim, it's your duty to prove and defend it. Imagine I came to you and said "hey, purple unicorns exist. I know they exist," you would, if you are not retarded, ask why(my proof or evidence) I said so because, already, you don't believe in pink unicorns because you have no reasons to. It would be a dishonesty bordering on lunacy for me to reply "they exist because you can't disprove the existence of unicorns ie. you can't prove unicorns don't exist" rather than give my proof. It's the duty of those who make the claim to prove their claim. If can't give my proof, I shouldn't look at people who doubt the existence of pink unicorns as foolish, unreasonable or mentally deficient. In fact, if you can't prove your claims, don't expect anyone to believe your claims. A lot of christian do that a lot when it comes to atheism, they ask us to prove that their god doesn't exist. If someone says "I don't believe in god because there are no evidences to support the existence of god," there is no problem and such a person has nothing to prove but if you say "I believe in the existence of Yahweh, Jesus and the bible," you just made a claim and it's your responsibility to prove it. If you can't prove your claim, do not expect anyone to believe it. Christians who have read what I wrote would still feign ignorance and classify atheism as a religion so that they and atheists can be on the same page and they can accuse atheists of logical fallacies they are guilty of as if it proves their sacred beliefs. This shows that they are not after reasoning but feel safe in numbers. If not, why try to dishonestly make out atheism to be a belief system. Even if atheism is a belief system, it still won't make christianity true. In summary, atheism is not a belief that there is no god and we have nothing to prove. The duty of proving the existence of god lies on the christian. Asking atheist to prove that god doesn't exist is an irrational thing to say. Now, let's go into the proof for god, Jesus, Muhammad and great mortal men...
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MyGeneration:As in. |
XxSabrinaxX:As Tozara(Tollzara) said, only writers of fiction write from an omnipresent perspective. |
Melian:I agree. Just when I thought Juliet Ibrahim was going to carry the day. |
TATIME:Lol. You quoted an unrelated bible verse to support a failed claim. It seems you have confused presence of life for gravity. Besides, there are many solar systems and galaxies. Why would your god waste time creating other planets and galaxies when he could have created just earth? You don't have to bring all of them, just bring at least the top five and let's discuss. |
I can't remember the Samsung model but it was a slide(whatever it is called) phone with metal body. |
TATIME:The embodiment of irrational and bias. Let's assume that the earth is the only planet that has life. If a living was to create a scam, the scam would therefore be created and perpetrated on earth. If the Quran says that earth is the only place where you can find life, would you believe the Quran? My claim on planet orbiting the sun and colliding with other planets is based on the theory of general relativity which has been proven to be true. As I explained, planets move in elliptical orbits due to the sun's gravity and will only collide with another planet if their orbits intersect and they simultaneously reach the point of intersection. The earth's orbit and that of the other eight planets did not have their elliptical orbits intersecting with others so they kept moving undisturbed whereas those that did collided and cancelled out each other. Upon collision, they disintegrated into small rocks called asteroids. Your ignorance of science is really getting to you. @bold That's blatantly false. Gravity is a consequence of mass. Every planet has its gravitational force but not all planets have the conditions necessary for life. Can you see how your divinely inspired holy book just flopped? ![]() ... but there are so many things found in that ancient book that's just beyond the reasoning of those ancient people who don't even know anything about the laws of nature! Certainly a highly intelligent being is behind their writings!Can you list those things and answers given in the Holy book? |
computergeek:Lol. I was about to type the same thing. I didn't see any concrete reason for the separation of white kids from black kids other than her emotional yada yada. Perhaps it's the bloggers at work. |
victrick105:As in. When you tell the poverty stricken ones not to give birth to children they can't take care of, they think you are enemy of progress and you are judging and mocking them. It's emotions above reasoning and vanity. They want to marry and born to show off and because they think it's this ultimate achievement that crowns a man's life. |
Frosbel2, XxSabrinaxX, Michellekabod, LordReed, budaatum, Dantedasz, HellVictorinho ![]()
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TATIME:The reason why humans are "better" than most animals is the same reason why a gorilla is "better" than a tilapia. An organism had to come out "on top" and it happened to be man. Don't start feeling too special. Planets don't collide because their paths are guided in their elliptical orbits by the sun's gravity and planets that collide have cancelled out each other leaving those that don't to continue orbiting the sun. Those that collided disintegrated in smaller rocks that went to the sun or other planet or ended up as asteroids. I don't get your question concerning the big bang. You see, your ignorance of science does not make the bible true. Go and study science. |
TATIME:Lol. That's science. Have you seen god mold a man from dust and breath the breath of life into him? Science has evidence for it's claims, the bible has no single evidence. |
PastorAIO:It's been a long time, I can't remember. The discussion had nothing to do with religion or atheism. |
HenryDion: ![]() |
HenryDion:Lol. ![]() |
HenryDion:Do you remember that our first encounter with insults? "you are just as smart as your English" remember? ![]() |
HenryDion:I think she is sharing the experiences that placed doubt in her mind and her experiences as a christian. |
hahn: I am not a homophobe but damn I just have to laugh at certain throwbacks of Bob Risky and Bisi Alimi. |
Lol. Misinformation. Our universities need to be upgraded. Perhaps you lack exposure. |
Rextizz:There is nothing wrong in being a hoe. It's a fundamental human right. As long as they don't force you to date or marry them against your will, face front. |
Rextizz:Stop saying that, why are you using your unrealistic standard to judge others. Is it a crime to have silicone boobs and butt? Is it not her body? If she's a hoe, is she hoeing with another person's vagina? The girl is self made and enjoying her daughter and boyfriend while people are just angry that the universe did not follow their standard of meritocracy to favour the holy ones and punish the so called hoes. ![]() |
Earthbound:The universe does not follow your standard of meritocracy. Those that can take will receive. Jenner gave and offered smartly and she has received in abundance. That's how the world works. If you like stay there and be doing holy holy, traditional and be vex over someone's success, you go rot. ![]() |
TATIME:Do you believe evolution and the big bang are scientific facts? ![]() |
XxSabrinaxX: nice one!
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TATIME: ![]()
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TATIME:Before you believed all you typed, were they demonstrated? ![]() |
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TATIME: haba!
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TATIME:Are you for real? ![]()
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TATIME:If both biblical and scientific documents are undemonstrated, as you claim, why pick the bible and drop science? Why not drop the bible and pick science? If you can pick a biblical document that is undemonstrated, why should you have a problem with "undemonstrated" scientific documents? Why even choose something that is undemonstrated? |
Michellekabod1:This is why atheists keep bashing religion. Unfortunately, some religiotards keep saying "if atheist don't believe in god then why are they bashing religion and god?" things like this are why we bash magical thinking. |
NB: this is fiction and it's under no obligation to conform with reality. CHAPTER EIGHT : setting up Mattan to fail. There has never been a time like this, a time when the king was limited in control and had to play along with the people for the fear of losing his throne or even being killed. The people, for now, had formed a structure where the three friends were the new kings(unofficially) with a greater power and control over the people. The king would not back down easily as he sort to salvage the people from the blasphemy of the three friends and return the people back to their former ways for both sincere and political reasons. Two days after Mattan's confrontation, he ordered the five scholars to present themselves for a secret meeting in his inner chamber to discuss his goal. The meeting took place in the morning. KING : I am at lost on this issue and I have called you here for us to figure out how to get rid of the blasphemy in our land. I believe you guys are on the same page with me since I noticed you all were not awestruck at the blasphemy from the cursed mouth of Mattan. Are you guys for him? ALL SCHOLARS : No our Lord. KING : I am delighted to hear that I have people on my side and not just that, they are the best brains in the land. How do you suppose we deal with Mattan and expose him? ATHEIST SCHOLAR 1 : it's simple but hard. Mattan ideas, though not true, are original and have taken the masses by storm. Soldiers, former priests, the people, the royal family except the king and elites are now among his followers. Why don't we attempt to assassinate him? KING : well, luckily for me Jothem is still loyal to me even though he now pretends to join them in order to act as my spy. Jothem told me that the three friends are heavily guarded by the soldiers and an assassination would be almost impossible. It's too risky because if I fail, they would trace it me and that would mean death for me. Is there anything else that can be done? ATHEIST SCHOLAR 2 : our main enemy here are not the three friends but a belief system that has captured the mind of the people. All that matters to the human mind is conviction. It doesn't matter whether there is evidence or not, once the human mind is convinced of something, there is nothing one can do to stop it from acting out on what it is convinced of. If we can plant doubts in their minds about their belief system, we can beat the three friends. How about that your highness? KING : well, wouldn't that be a red flag? Questioning and doubting their beliefs is a sin to them for the obvious reason of keeping them bound to their beliefs. They would kill us if we started questioning their beliefs and countering it? ATHEIST SCHOLAR 2 : that's true my king, their emotions and stupidity are ahead of them in this aspect and they've left no room for critical thinking. We shall be wise and strategic about it. KING : how do you suppose we go about that? ALL SCHOLARS : (silent for thirty seconds and look at each other for answers). ATHEIST SCHOLAR 3 : (finally speaks out) what if we set them up to fail and when they do, we emphasis on that failure to tarnish their creator's image? If that can be done, then the friends are in trouble. KING : how can we do that? ATHEIST SCHOLAR 3 : remember, your grace, that we have a war with the Edenians in the next two days over who shall own the Palyesan land and Kochal peninsula. We shall call Mattan and act like we are for his creator and we shall ask him to give us the creator's blessings and predict if his creator shall deliver a great victory for us. Of course, we shall be defeated given that we are outnumbered; they have better weapons and horses and our soldiers are bothering themselves with Mattan's ideas instead of preparing for battle but Mattan doesn't know this information. ATHEIST SCHOLAR 4 : after going through Mattan's ideas for the past four days, I know that he is indeed a man of excuses and cunning ways. To make it more tempting, unsuspecting and inescapable for him, we shall call the people together on that day of war but before that, we give out false information that the Edenians are outnumbered by our soldiers and we are superior in all aspects. We shall make it look like there is a 100% chance of winning. Rather than resort to excuses, he will be tempted to prophesy and proclaim, based on our false information, that his creator shall grant us victory. He will be so tempted to do so in hope that when we win, which we will not, he would have his "I told you so" moment and further bind the people to himself. We shall take advantage of his lust for power and deceitful ways. KING : (very glad) a very good idea indeed. I shall pounce on him when he fails and tear him to shreds. I just hope this plan cannot fail for I can't wait to behead the three crooks for challenging my sovereignty. ATHEIST SCHOLAR 1 : my Lord, Mattan will most likely fall into our trap for it is in the mind of a crooked prophet to capitalise on what outcome seems very very likely and speak about that outcome with certainty while claiming it was revealed to him. Such instances are golden opportunities for crooked prophets as it helps in building their credibility and that's the time when they speak with certainty rather than vague words and you can clearly hold them responsible if their prophecies fail. This is how Mattan is sure to act. He won't see this coming. When he fails, we shall pounce on him and emphasis on his failure and that of his creator and plant doubts in the people's minds. KING : (excited) indeed. If he falls, I shall have no mercy. Who is in charge disseminating military information to the public? ATHEIST SCHOLAR 5 : (stands and bows to the king) I am my lord since the General was brutally murdered. KING : very well then, you shall speak to Mattan this evening and tell him that there is a battle and you need the soldiers to fight. Make sure he thinks that you believe in his creator. ATHEIST SCHOLAR 5 : I shall do that my Lord. (bows). KING : also do not forget to spread the misinformation that our troops are certain to win and that there's nothing to fear. Anything else before we call it a day? ATHEIST SCHOLAR 3 : my king, though we have a good plan that would must likely work and wouldn't turn the people against us if Mattan doesn't fall as we want him, what about our soldiers that are going to die because we are trying to test Mattan? It is a suicide mission for them, you know my Lord? KING : why would I care about those traitors? ATHEIST SCHOLAR 5 : my Lord, I think he is concerned about how we shall replace the fallen soldiers. We need not worry since there are able-bodied men in the lower class. We must hope our plan succeeds lest we be replacing idiots with another set of idiots. KING : I hope so too. Any plan B incase this doesn't work? ATHEIST SCHOLAR 1 : coming up plan B won't be hard but let us focus on this first plan for time is short. KING : very well then, go and carry out my instructions. That's enough for today, you may all leave. ALL SCHOLARS : (stand up, bow and leave the king's inner chamber). * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * On their way out, the scholars had a short discussion of their own. ATHEIST SCHOLAR 4 : did you listen when the king said that Mattan was protected by soldiers? Why would a priest of the most powerful and all loving creator need soldiers to protect him? ATHEIST SCHOLAR 2 : that's because Mattan knows his creator doesn't exist? That should be a red flag to his sheeples that something is wrong, why don't they see that? ATHEIST SCHOLAR 1 : they don't see it as a red flag because of their unparalleled stvpidity. Such will repeat itself from generations to generations because stvpid genes begat stvpid people. It's the same reason why they never asked Mattan for evidences of his claims. Mattan was guilty of commiting logical fallacies during the clash in the royal court two days ago. ATHEIST SCHOLAR 4 : the indoctrination of their silly offspring won't help matters. Let's quit talking and go do the king's biddings. ALL SCHOLARS : (go their separate ways). * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * The fifth scholar, whose name is Maron, went to Mattan that same evening to inform him about upcoming war and he thought it best to relay to Mattan the likely outcome of the battle rather than inform the people first. He did it for a purpose and it worked. MARON : (enters Mattan's house). you guys are surely well guarded. I had to overcome the suspicious eyes of the crowd; make it clear to them that I am for the creator and endure being searched by your fierce guards. ZADOK : what do you what? MARON : I came to ask for you priests to persuade the soldiers to gather and fight because we have a war in two days against the Edenians over the ownership of the great Palyesan land and Kochal peninsula. MATTAN : what are likelihood of the we coming out on top? MARON : 100% MATTAN : have you shared this information with the people yet? MARON : no. MATTAN : (closes his eyes and pretends that he got a revelation. He then lies). what a time to be alive in the history of our kind that not only has the creator revealed himself, he has also orchestrated a great victory for his people to show them his might. I shall address the people myself and tell them the victory that the creator has orchestrated for his people. In fact it was revealed to me, this morning, by the creator that there was a victory in war coming in the next two days. Isn't that so? ZADOK & ACHIM : of course! MARON : (not buying the lie but had to play along) indeed ye are mighty priests of a great creator. MATTAN : you may leave. We shall handle sharing the information to the people. MARON : be sure to inform the king on that day about what the creator has done for him. (bows and leaves) THE THREE FRIENDS : we will. MARON : (leaves). * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * After meeting the three friends and walking back home, Maron, delighted, thought to himself. MARON : (thinking to himself) I have you where I want and the king shall pounce upon you in no time. How shall you escape from this now that you have fallen? |
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