blot

@Viaro: I hardly ever sleep. A growing bad habit.

Confidence

@noetic:

Thanks.

@DeepSight: Interesting views you have here. I will have to return to post my answer, probably by updating this post, cos it may be a really long post. Thanks!

@Deep Sight: About 23 hours have passed since you asked me a question that I eventually answered after almost 4 hours, and 7 hours since i posted a reminder but I haven't heard your own rejoinder views. I refer to the Atheists' Holy Day thread:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-363977.32.html#msg5095959

So I imagine that you either misunderstood what I initially said, or you just do not wish to pursue the matter. In my high respect of your opinion across these threads, I would have liked to identify the loophole you said you saw in my argument. But in either case, it's all good.

@Topic: No comment.

@blackcypha:
*yawn*

@tensor777:

Although I dislike "make-up", I have to wear some of it at times for the sake of presentational outlook. I would be a hypocrite to say I never use make-up because I use it at times. When I need to appear on a video shoot or TV program at times, for instance, I need to have my face made up because of the high-power video cameras that pick up EVERY detail. Not to digress, but you can see my current profile picture, I have no make-up on in this picture.

My reason to not wear make-up even if I need it, is to reach every believer irrespective of doctrine or dogma

1Co 9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
1Co 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

In the Old Testament, there were many rules that were put in place to ensure that they had a kind of dressing that set them apart from other nations, so that everyone would see them as a people set-apart, and it would be hard to intermingle (intermarry) with other nations, which was forbidden by God.

Why was it forbidden by God for them to mix with other nations, where for instance, they use wax to remove all their hair (like the Egyptians)? It's because God knew that if they mix like that, they will learn false religions and customs, and their hearts will be led astray from him. The Jew nation came through Abraham because God trusted him on THAT count

Gen 18:18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?
Gen 18:19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him

So why was God concerned that the Jews might be led astray? The devil really wanted to wipe out Israel, either by wars from their enemies, or by intermingling idolatrous nations with them until, like an epidemic, their love for God is wiped out. That was the theme of the Old Testament with respect to the devil, and his reason was simple: if Israel was wiped out using one of these means, the Saviour won't be able to come through Israel anymore. That would defeat God's plans, so God instituted hard (very hard) laws that ensured Israel's religious safety, military safety and medical health.

Today, many people consider the Old Testament but not from the right perspectives. Jesus said he had not come to abolish the Law, but to build upon it. In the Bible, especially the Old Testament, there are things that pertained ONLY to the Jews of Moses' day, there are things that pertained to the Jews in Jesus day, there are things that pertain to Jews after Jesus day, there are things that pertain to Gentiles like me who are Jews by the heart, and lastly there are things that pertain to Gentiles that are not born-again.

So why do some people preach that make-up is a sin? I think it is because they are not rightly dividing the word of truth? Or maybe I am not.

2Ti 2:15 Study and be eager and do your utmost to present yourself to God approved (tested by trial), a workman who has no cause to be ashamed, correctly analyzing and accurately dividing [rightly handling and skillfully teaching] the Word of Truth.
2Ti 2:16 But avoid all empty (vain, useless, idle) talk, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness.

And, in my honest opinion, addressing a matter like make-up when people are still having problems understanding matters of faith, righteousness and the ministry of the Holy Spirit, constitutes the empty, vain, useless, idle talk that will lead people into more and more ungodliness.

What I believe about the ministry of the gospel is that whatever you teach, multiplies in your congregation. Have you ever noticed that? It's because faith comes by hearing. I know churches that preach prosperity at the demerit of other messages, and I see the fruits of the teaching in most of the members' lives. I know churches that teach healing and health, and very few of them get sick. There are churches that teach the Word of Faith, and that's what is rampant in the congregational knowledge. There's a name-withheld church like that which preaches and teaches on sexual sin, adultery and fornication almost all the time, and that's what keeps happening in the church. Faith comes by hearing, and when we dwell on ephemeral things like make-up and face-paint, it will be to the detriment of true knowledge of LIVING BY FAITH.

I am not under the Law, I'm led by the Spirit of God.

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

The conclusion of my argument is that make-up is not wrong, it DOES NOT make one sin. It may lead one to vanity, prideful haughtiness, seduction, intimidation, insecurity and infallibly, sin but that does not make it wrong. Anything in the human sphere of experiences can cause one to sin.

Even going to school can make you sin, because you will hear and see wrong things from students and lecturers.

Jas 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. KJV

Pro 4:23 Keep and guard your heart with all vigilance and above all that you guard, for out of it flow the springs of life. AMP

@OP: One. Only you.

And how sure are you of what the OP meant by make-up? There are vast things referred to as animals, so if someone asks "Is it right to hunt animals", can I conclude that it means domestic animals rather than wild beasts? That would be very poor judgment.

So, when the OP said "Is it Biblical", tell me, what did the OP mean? It has to be one of these two:

1. Is it mentioned in the Bible?
2. It it a sin (right or wrong)?

It is obviously not (1.) because we have Jezebel, Esther, the Ephesian church women, etc. mentioned in the Bible directly or indirectly as using make-up.

As to (2.) it is either a sin or not. Prove to me from the Bible that it is a sin, and I will drop my argument. Otherwise I am out of here on this argument, seeing that it is not a sin.

What constitutes sin, fundamentally? It starts from a matter of the heart, ignoring God's counsel either deliberately or because you do not know it, and thus starting along a pathway to death. So, anything can lead to sin, anything from using Yahoo! Chat to craving noodles to seeking too much comedy to wearing make-up!

The argument is moot, then.

@ud4u,
I have posted the entire scripture below so we can consider it in perspective!

Jer 4:29  Every city flees because of the noise of the horsemen and bowmen. They go into the thickets and climb among the rocks; every city is forsaken, and not a man dwells in them.
Jer 4:30  And you [plundered one], when you are made desolate, what will you do? Though you clothe yourself with scarlet, though you deck yourself with ornaments of gold, though you paint your eyelids and make them look farther apart, in vain you [size=13pt]beautify[/size] yourself. Your lovers (allies) despise you; they seek your life.
Jer 4:31  For I have heard a cry as of a woman in travail, the anguish as of one who brings forth her first child--the cry of the Daughter of Zion, who gasps for breath, who spreads her hands, saying, Woe is me now! I am fainting before the murderers.

Never forget that here, the WOMAN talked about was a people, Judah, when they are laid waste by conquest and captivity! What God was telling Jeremiah here was that, there was nothing Judah would have to offer to their allies that would make them change their minds, they would destroy them still! Even if, compare to a woman, they apply make-up and dress up to look fine, they would still be killed. It doesn't say that make-up is wrong or evil or sinful. So we see that God told Jeremiah that the make-up beautifies the woman, although it is in vain when she has sinned against God and judgment has come for her.

Please let us carefully consider things in the correct perspective. The letter killeth, the Spirit giveth life!

Thanks u4du for the verse! 

To clarify before I go further, I dislike make-up, but I see it as a tool that is necessary sometimes in order to look presentable, when applied in moderation! I know my answers for myself, but you know why I am saying all of this? To ensure that people live their lives by God's Word, and not fall into the error of believing that they are SINNING when they look good, in sensible and presentable moderation.

For instance, when in youth fellowship, Mavenbox never broke the rules, no trousers in the Baptist church because it would cause vexation in those who thought it was a sin. Make-up was allowed but I wasn't so interested. So i refrained from it! But you know what? Most people who scream the whole makeup shebang to their children and followers, those same children and followers will seem to obey, but watch it: on campuses and other less restraining places they revert.

For questions and answers like this, all you need is the instruction of the Holy Spirit. Now let me ask you, tensor777, did you ever pray about this topic? Or you are simply posting what your pastor said? Because THE HOLY SPIRIT is the one who can express God's mind in TODAY'S PERSPECTIVES to us. Look at the Jews, still expecting a Messiah. And why's that? Because they are living in the past! God's revelation to man is progressive, and that is why the Holy Spirit had to come. And that's why you need to come off it!

This is an unfortunate tool used by the devil in this generation: he keeps people's minds busy with the whole make-up is a sin, trousers constitute sin, hairdo is a sin, etc (I wonder why there are few sins like this for guys) INSTEAD OF FOCUSING ON CHRIST, AUTHOR AND FINISHER OF OUR FAITH!

Culture and religion can never mix. You can't look good in the culture and not break the religion, unless of course the religion is based on that culture. So, tell me, tensor777, why do you shave your beard and other hair(s)? After all, the Jews never shaved?! It's because this is not a religion! I repeat,
Christianity is not a religion bound by cultural limitations. It's the life of God in a man/woman physically living within cultures!

tensor777:

What is peace quotient, holiness quotient, and righteousness quotient? Who actually determines these quantities. You? Your friends? Well the bible should be the guide and certainly not our feelings. A christian should flee from every appearance of evil.

Have you NO humour? When I mentioned peace quotient, holiness quotient and righteousness quotient, didn't you see the smilies I placed there, indicating humour? Didn't you see the PERSPECTIVE from which I was discussing before blatantly attacking what I said? Why did you single that part out as if it makes sense standing alone?

Now, the following two verses contain what I meant by PQ, HQ, RQ. FROM THE BIBLE. I glide over your insinuation concerning my friends, because I have always been a maverick, I stand for the truth regardless of whatever my friends say!

Rom 14:16 Do not therefore let what seems good to you be considered an evil thing [by someone else]. [In other words, do not give occasion for others to criticize that which is justifiable for you.]
Rom 14:17 [After all] the kingdom of God is not a matter of [getting the] food and drink [one likes], but instead it is righteousness (that state which makes a person acceptable to God) and [heart] peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
Rom 14:18 He who serves Christ in this way is acceptable and pleasing to God and is approved by men.
Rom 14:19 So let us then definitely aim for and eagerly pursue what makes for harmony and for mutual upbuilding (edification and development) of one another.
Rom 14:20 You must not, for the sake of food, undo and break down and destroy the work of God! Everything is indeed [ceremonially] clean and pure, but it is wrong for anyone to hurt the conscience of others or to make them fall by what he eats.
Rom 14:21 The right thing is to eat no meat or drink no wine [at all], or [do anything else] if it makes your brother stumble or hurts his conscience or offends or weakens him.

Which is a reason why mavenbox may not wear make-up in places where it may cause others to stumble. But don't tell me it's a sin, that's just too poor and wrong. If I need make-up only because my friends use it, then it may turn out wrong. If I need make-up in order to look presentable, what's the sin in that?

TELL ME, HAVE YOU EVER USED A DEODORANT? MOUTH-WASH? PERFUME? HAIR-CREAM? It's all Make-up!!! Do you get that now? So if I know that a certain Musk perfume I use has the tendency to unsettle guys around me, and I continue using it, that's where there is a problem.

Heb 12:14 Strive to live in peace with everybody and pursue that consecration and holiness without which no one will [ever] see the Lord.

One thing people who criticize make-up don't get is that there is corrective make-up and adorning make-up. Are they both sinful, then? So, someone who has an embarrassing number of spots on her face, and wants to look presentable, and as such applies make-up, has sinned? If you believe so in your church, and I were the one, I would pray for direction to know if i should stay or leave. Because staying will eventually vex my own soul, and may even lead me to sin of resentment and anger for unnecessary restraints, when the same people preaching no-make-up are decorating the church and also looking good in sanctimonious suits, dresses and lady-hats. If an evangelist of yours has a terrible mouth odour, would he then be restrained from using make-up on his mouth (mouth-wash), and keep talking to people about the gospel with a malodorous mouth? And, stating a case for adorning make-up too, if used in moderation, it can be very appropriate.

Who said anything about looking haggard and unkempt? We are saying that she should dress modestly and in such a manner that glorifies God.

WHENEVER people hear make-up, the first thing they think of is heavy, unnecessary make-up. Who said you can't use make-up and dress modestly? That's a very wrong perspective.

1Ti 2:9 Also [I desire] that women should adorn themselves modestly and appropriately and sensibly in seemly apparel, not with [elaborate] hair arrangement or gold or pearls or expensive clothing,
1Ti 2:10 But by doing good deeds (deeds in themselves good and for the good and advantage of those contacted by them), as befits women who profess reverential fear for and devotion to God.

Timothy, pastor of Ephesus, had to be instructed about the women's dressing here. Why? You need to read the entire chapter. Being new converts into Christ, they were used to the glittering showbiz that obtains in idolatry, where the more "glorious" your dressing, the "holier" you are, because you are bringing honour to your deity. He had to warn them about that so that they won't place emphasis on dressing and lose focus of Christ and salvation. If you think it refers to make-up, I must ask you why women of God wear gold wedding rings (I wont talk about earrings) and those who can afford it wear expensive clothing (like Jesus and probably Mary Magdalene did). Does it make any sense, then?

I have always hated topics like this because objectivity is thrown out the window and people attend to Christianity like it was a heathen book of do's and don'ts. Christianity is not a bondage where such rules guide our experience! Please can you tell me FROM THE BIBLE how make-up is an appearance of evil?[/li] Don't even try that Jezebel line, because the fact it was said that she used make-up doesn't mean other righteous queens like Esther did not. In fact, I put it to you that THEY did. What do you think the beautification rooms in Esther were all about?

@Deepsight: I am still waiting for your response, sir

@justcool: Abeg o! me i no get scientific knowledge o, I just like analyzing information with scrutiny. It's fun, Carpe Diem.

Okay the device is yours, LOL. I wash my hands clean of any involvement with the machine: implied or otherwise!

I have very many unlearned opinions on this topic, however, seeing that I am only an engineer and not a rocket scientist . Maybe I will discuss them later, I pray I remember, AND have the time!

*spiffy yawn* Gotta sleep soon!

@justcool: Hmmm now I get what you mean Thanks for breaking it down
But really, justcool, i still think you can't peer into the past of the time machine, or rather the time machine's launch-time, unless

1. the device travels faster than light and thus beats the light to its vantage point of observation and/or
2. it travels slower than light, or as fast as light, and has a means of trapping light rays that have conveyed their information in the past and are still shooting across space

My reasons:

By wikipedia, some estimated durations of distances travelled by light are (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_light)
Earth to our Sun (8.3 minutes)
Earth to Alpha Centauri (4.4 years)
Earth to the other end of the Milky Way (100, 000 years)
Earth to the Andromeda Galaxy (2,500,000 years)

So, say we build our incredible history-recorder today, it is tuned up to travel as fast as light (if possible) and we launch it on January 1st, 2010.
After 8.3 minutes of launch, it is as far away as the Sun from the Earth. As such, it can trap all the light rays that ALSO left Earth 8.3 minutes ago, and afterwards. It can't even trap the light rays that left Earth 8 minutes ago (20 seconds before launchtime) because they would have travelled farther than the Sun, conveying the accurate information.

If we allow the recorder to continue travelling after the 8.3 minute distance, after 4.4 years, around the 24th of April of 2014, the history-recorder will have arrived at, say, Alpha Centauri. But the SAME light rays that it can capture are the ones that have travelled thus far from earth in 4.4 years. i.e. the very same ones carrying the earth's information at launchtime

If, however, we could travel say twice as fast as light, the recorder would be at Alpha Centauri in 2.2 years AT THE SAME TIME with normal light rays from earth that are arriving in 4.4 years (i.e. 2.2 years ago with respect to launchtime). even better would be the history-recorder travelling 10 times as fast as light, then we can view events that happened by trapping light rays released from earth 3.52 years ago because our device would be there in 0.44 years while the relatively slower light rays would arrive in 4.4 years.

On the other hand, if our device had a means of utilizing the light rays that left Earth millions (Olaadegbu and other YEC, that would be thousands ) of years ago and are now idly traversing outer space, and after receiving the information they carry, translating it without any error or appreciable loss of value; then the time it arrives in outer space is of no consequence. It may get there to Alpha Centauri in 4.4 years and still capture rays as old as 4000 B.C. and settle the YEC argument forever.

What do you think, Justcool?

Big broken head

@DeepSight: Sincerely, I'm just seeing this! I don't follow through with all Nairaland notifications immediately. They're often too many 

mavenbox:
Speaking for Christianity, when a person gets saved by confessing Christ as Saviour, it's the spirit that gets saved. The mind/ soul is not saved YET, but will be eventually renewed as you walk with God.

Deep Sight:

Before i point out the tragedy of this unfortunate remark, please address it yourself. You're a bright girl, i am sure you see what's wrong with this statement. Go ahead. I am waiting.

To clarify before I continue, the spirit and the soul are not the same thing, as michelin89 correctly said:

Heb 4:12  For the Word that God speaks is alive and full of power [making it active, operative, energizing, and effective]; it is sharper than any two-edged sword, penetrating to the dividing line of the breath of life (soul) and [the immortal] spirit, and of joints and marrow [of the deepest parts of our nature], exposing and sifting and analyzing and judging the very thoughts and purposes of the heart.

1Th 5:23  And may the God of peace Himself sanctify you through and through [separate you from profane things, make you pure and wholly consecrated to God]; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved sound and complete [and found] blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah).

The spirit is what communicates with the divine. The soul is what controls the "gates" of the physical realms (5 senses) and the vast human experience, including emotions, logic and imagination, by virtue of those sensations. The body is the visa for the human being to stay on earth until the visa expires.

Man is essentially a spirit. He owns a soul, and he lives in a body.

I do not see the error you are referring to here, DeepSight. I was speaking in reference to these verses:

The "renewal" of the mind is in the present-continuous tense, and it's purpose is to appropriate God's perfect will.

Rom 12:1  I APPEAL to you therefore, brethren, and beg of you in view of [all] the mercies of God, to make a decisive dedication of your bodies [presenting all your members and faculties] as a living sacrifice, holy (devoted, consecrated) and well pleasing to God, which is your reasonable (rational, intelligent) service and spiritual worship.

Rom 12:2  Do not be conformed to this world (this age), [fashioned after and adapted to its external, superficial customs], but be transformed (changed) by the [entire] renewal of your mind [by its new ideals and its new attitude], so that you may prove [for yourselves] what is the good and acceptable and perfect will of God, even the thing which is good and acceptable and perfect [in His sight for you].

One can "preserve" the soul by faith and reliance on God through Christ Jesus

Heb 10:39  But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

Heb 10:39  But our way is not that of those who draw back to eternal misery (perdition) and are utterly destroyed, but we are of those who believe [who cleave to and trust in and rely on God through Jesus Christ, the Messiah] and by faith preserve the soul.

One can "torture" their own soul by experiencing and/or participating in unholy things.

2Pe 2:8  For that just man, living [there] among them, tortured his righteous soul every day with what he saw and heard of [their] unlawful and wicked deeds--

Before Christ (the last Adam), the human spirit was not active. The spirit was dormant because it is the vital connection to God, and God sought to have that vital connection restored.

Joh 4:23  A time will come, however, indeed it is already here, when the true (genuine) worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth (reality); for the Father is seeking just such people as these as His worshipers.
Joh 4:24  God is a Spirit (a spiritual Being) and those who worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth (reality).

So Christ came, and he had the vital connection that enabled life to be restored to the spiritually-dead

1Co 15:45  And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

1Co 15:45  Thus it is written, The first man Adam became a living being (an individual personality); the last Adam (Christ) became a life-giving Spirit [restoring the dead to life]. [Gen. 2:7.]

The spirit is saved BY the life-giving Spirit (Christ), but the soul isn't (yet). many people say "I have saved 10 souls" after they have proselytized to 10 new converts. But in truth, they just saved 10 spirits, which is more important.

So how does the soul get saved? By dwelling upon God's Word with a patient disposition to learn (i.e. meekness) and having heard it, doing what it instructs as well. By walking with God.

[size=13pt]Jas 1:21  So get rid of all uncleanness and the rampant outgrowth of wickedness, and in a humble (gentle, modest) spirit receive and welcome the Word which implanted and rooted [in your hearts] contains the power to save your souls. [/size]
Jas 1:22  But be doers of the Word [obey the message], and not merely listeners to it, betraying yourselves [into deception by reasoning contrary to the Truth].
Jas 1:23  For if anyone only listens to the Word without obeying it and being a doer of it, he is like a man who looks carefully at his [own] natural face in a mirror;
Jas 1:24  For he thoughtfully observes himself, and then goes off and promptly forgets what he was like.

And then, on the other hand, it is evident that the soul is what commandeers knowledge, right? The Bible teaches that we can never know in full for now, the way God knows us too; but we grow in our knowledge until the end of time.

Thus unlike the spirit which has obtained a perfect 100% reconnection with God, the soul needs to be continually nurtured by looking into the "mirror" (the Word of God, see Jas 1:21-24 above).

1Co 13:12  For now we are looking in a mirror that gives only a dim (blurred) reflection [of reality as in a riddle or enigma], but then [when perfection comes] we shall see in reality and face to face! Now I know in part (imperfectly), but then I shall know and understand fully and clearly, even in the same manner as I have been fully and clearly known and understood [by God].

So the spirit gets saved, but the soul needs a constant renewing. Let me finish up with an analogy (yeah, I know I can't really do without them  ). The analogy is a little weak because it places the major emphasis on the body,  rather than the spirit. But it will serve my purpose here. 

Imagine the human being is like a computer system, say, a laptop. It's body is the laptop computer box. It's soul is the operating system installed on it, together with the attendant software packages. It has no internet connection, because the wireless internet access, even though all around it, requires a security key to access the internet. So, it's one of two cases: the laptop may detect the internet connection if it searches for it, but it cannot benefit from it because the access codes in use are wrong (those that have heard the Gospel of Spiritual Salvation but they have not yet received Christ). Or maybe the wireless adapter is even OFF so the internet access is not detected (those that didn't even hear the Gospel at all). When the CORRECT access code (Christ) is supplied, the computer can access the internet (when someone gets born again, there is a rich introduction to the Godhead), and at that time it is possible to update the operating system software from the manufacturer's website, and all vulnerability bugs can be fixed with the available patches (the soul can thus be saved).

But for those laptops without an internet connection, you may install software via the USB port or the Optical drive (CD/DVD-ROM) and you may also contact viruses thereby. When those "ill" laptops get connected to the internet eventually (they get saved), they can update their antivirus databases. Then the user won't need to enquire about the deadliness of the viruses, the viruses will be dealt with by the updates. i.e. when some people come to Christ, they may still have some vices in their souls (sins that they regularly commit and return to ask for forgiveness) but as they keep updating their virus definitions from God, the vices will drop off. As a friend once joked, "Jesus said: I will make you fishers of men. You catch them, I will clean them".

e.g. Peter was guilty of hypocrisy in the early church because in his mind (soul), he was concerned with what people would say. He had to be reprimanded by Paul. That is probably an offshoot of Peter's character before the move of the Spirit: he was always very forward and assuming, he didn't ever want to be caught with his pants down (he feared men with respect to his amount of faith, recall his denial of Christ?)

Gal 2:11  But when Cephas (Peter) came to Antioch, I protested and opposed him to his face [concerning his conduct there], for he was blameable and stood condemned.
Gal 2:12  For up to the time that certain persons came from James, he ate his meals with the Gentile [converts]; but when the men [from Jerusalem] arrived, he withdrew and held himself aloof from the Gentiles and [ate] separately for fear of those of the circumcision [party].
Gal 2:13  And the rest of the Jews along with him also concealed their true convictions and acted insincerely, with the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy (their example of insincerity and pretense).

And what happens when the laptop battery dies or the hardware experiences a terrible unreconciliable fault? The laptop dies, like man's body dies. At that point in time, the records of the soul's (operating system and software's) actions have been logged from the internet service provider, and it is too late to do anything about it. The operating system and the software are judged for their actions with respect to the unique IP address and computer MAC address e.g. a pirated version was used or illegal sites were visited (the soul is judged with respect to the spirit).

Job 7:9  As the cloud is consumed and vanishes away, so he who goes down to Sheol (the place of the dead) shall come up no more.

Thus ends my analogy. I am ready to clarify any yet-unclear points; and also ready to hear what you consider my logical error. 

before he fell

On this wall

Humpty-dumpty waz 'ere

Not my business

Free whitesturd na!

@justcool: No i understood perfectly. I only said what the_seeker said in other words, and I was adding that we can not peer into the time BEFORE the machine was deployed, since the very instrument we are using would not exist at that "time" 

Howbeit my explanation may not have exactly come out as I intended, it is in concordance with these other posts

the_seeker:

Let me give you clearer decscription. If we were to deploy the telescope TODAY (assumming we have technology to transport at speed  of light) the telescope will be travelling side by side with rays that just reflected from the earth. Hence it cannot record any data older that TODAY. It even gets worse considering that this captued image wilL have to take an equalt length of time to reach us back on earth

mavenbox:

@The seeker: Brilliant!  That was exactly what I was going to say when I read the OP. The argument is flawed on that one point. If it takes us 1 year to fly our history-decoder into outer space, then you can only start viewing history FROM that point, and not even 10 years ago let alone 6000 years.

VALIDATOR:

1.If it takes light 5,200 years to travel to point  V  in space. A "satellite"  positioned at point V today can record things can immediately record 5,200 year old earth events quite alright but it will take another 5,200 years for it to send the signal to us us on earth.

mantraa:

They say that if you invent a time machine you can only go back to the point in time when it was invented due to the fact that you cannot travel faster than the speed of light.

@mantraa: Imagine that! And that's the interesting thing about sci-fi. It's fantasy without all the magic and mythical creatures. I like. Gotta read that book! 

Nuffin dey happen

Chrisbenogor:

@mavenbox
*hmmm hmmmm hmmm clears throat and speaks in a thick warri accent*
As you want make I take talk am again na!

You posts smacks of so much swagger , sorry but that seemed to be the easiest conclusion or maybe is because I just skim through the posts and when I see "God did not intend for man to" or "God's plan for man was to" I just ignore the rest

Sorry if I came across to you like that. I think I have very strong and deep convictions about whatever I believe in.

@toneyb:
I do agree that many Christians come to Christ out of fear of damnation in hell, but that is not true for everyone. Some of us are Believers because we love God. And, at my young age, I have already met many VERY MORAL (as well as many really immoral) Muslims, Atheists, Agnostics, Jews, Ifa Worshippers (I'm not kidding), Christians and a really great guy, a Buddhist; and as such I do not consider people's moral values short-sightedly as a function of their belief-system. What I consider as a function of their belief system is their spiritual status, and that is all.

Speaking for Christianity, when a person gets saved by confessing Christ as Saviour, it's the spirit that gets saved. The mind/ soul is not saved YET, but will be eventually renewed as you walk with God. It's like a baby learning how to walk. As such, it is very possible (and it happens often) to see young Christians who carry over the same immoral values they used to have before Christianity INTO Christianity. at least until they KNOW better.

The truth is that at the end of the day, human beings are all the same, physically and soul-wise. Some people have learnt to control their souls via Yoga, others via various forms of magic, and others by living as a devout Muslim. There is no argument about that. But as for the spirit? In Christianity there is only ONE way to worship (serve, obey, live for) God, and it is in SPIRIT and in TRUTH, as guided by the Holy Spirit.

I hope my point is clear.
Cheers.

^^^ Thanks! The clone has been banned already, I got a message from a moderator.