@Seun: Thank you for restoring the article!!!! I had given up all hope on this one!! LOL

@Seun: LOL thanks for unblocking it. I'm sure you have seen that it's something different this time

Lol at Esther the poster girl. I wanna be a poster girl too! Me, me, me! Lol. Sigh. Too bad i would need makeup before the photography for the media poster. Sigh. And this court has not resolved the matter. Just kidding, but i gotta love this JeSoul girl.

Blessed be God. Thank you, Nuclearboy for sharing the truth you know, with us. I am a fan of yours! Lol

@Topic: personally, i think some intricate meaning is often displaced when people refer to "Confessing Christ as saviour".

To confess Christ is not just to mumble the magic words like super-Ted. It is to decide to be his ambassador and represent him fully, not just going through the motions but working out the salvation daily.

Its like the same way a man changes nationality from Russian to American and he swears allegiance to the USA. Meanwhile, maybe there are Nigerian students living in the USA who are die-hard patriots of the "Alien" land. People who see them believe they must be citizens because they live the life and walk the talk of the true American blood. But when the chips are down, only folks like that ex-Russian guy have the legal right to be considered as a citizen, even if he didnt make noise like those 9ja guys that were trying to blend in.

When they try to resist being deported, they will be told by the authorities, "Even though you did such and such in Uncle Sam's name, I do not know you". Of course they are not known by Uncle Sam (the United States)! Simply taking that step of faith to nationalize would have saved them. But rather, they chose to act like citizens [trying to walk in love] when they were not. That simple paperwork would have saved them. On the other hand, all the nationalized Americans who are not patriotic, will be judged for their actions, but by American terms which is an altogether different case from the ones who will not even be given a hearing because they are not citizens.

Salvation is akin to nationalization, Walking in Love [salvation of the soul] is akin to patriotism.

Not every one who acts like a patriot is a legal citizen. When you become a citizen, you need to forget about your patriotism to Russia and learn to walk in love like the Americans. There may be temptations to stand up for Russia and you will need to handle them. You may make some mistakes on your way to absolute patriotism but you will get there if you are determined.

In summary, guys like Gandhi, I cannot say for sure if he truly lived as a citizen of the Kingdom of Heaven, (where the thoughts and intents and actions are all very visible to God the Judge), and I will not be quick to make the judgment just because he appeared to walk in love as far as man could see. But God made a provision to be a "citizen" by simply "mouthing it", although meaning it.

KJV VERSION
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

THE MESSAGE VERSION
Rom 10:9 Say the welcoming word to God--"Jesus is my Master"--embracing, body and soul, God's work of doing in us what he did in raising Jesus from the dead. That's it. You're not "doing" anything; you're simply calling out to God, trusting him to do it for you. That's salvation.
Rom 10:10 With your whole being you embrace God setting things right, and then you say it, right out loud: "God has set everything right between him and me!"
Rom 10:11 Scripture reassures us, "No one who trusts God like this--heart and soul--will ever regret it."
Rom 10:12 It's exactly the same no matter what a person's religious background may be: the same God for all of us, acting the same incredibly generous way to everyone who calls out for help.
Rom 10:13 "Everyone who calls, 'Help, God!' gets help."
Rom 10:14 But how can people call for help if they don't know who to trust? And how can they know who to trust if they haven't heard of the One who can be trusted? And how can they hear if nobody tells them?
Rom 10:15 And how is anyone going to tell them, unless someone is sent to do it? That's why Scripture exclaims, A sight to take your breath away! Grand processions of people telling all the good things of God!

And Romans 10:14-15 explains why evangelism is appropriate, rather than a means of spreading a message that places people between the devil and the deep blue sea, like DeepSight said earlier on.

And thats what I have to say about all of this.

I hope that came out right cos i typed it in a hurry. Lol.

@Krayola: I created a gmail account, mavenbox@gmail.com, please send me the videos too. Im a very great fan of information. Thanks.

@Biina: Abi o! Shebi God killed an animal in Genesis 3 and used its fur to cover them? So are we not wearing just animal skin today?

Moving this to the jokes thread just plain killed it. LOL. The guys who were on the thread almost never visit this place!

(Please move this to the jokes section)

Tonye and Biina, LOL, I dont think KunleOshob can be convinced otherwise. He is so certain of his views that he even made it his signature!

@Biina: The undeniable excellence of the Lord God is upon you. Thanks. Selah.

@KunleOshob: Did the Holy Spirit ask you to stop paying tithes altogether, or did He say you should not pay it to those pastors in monetary form?

By my understanding, spiritual laws are never abolished. They are upgraded if need be, but never demolished. So, what replaces the law of tithes?

Biina and EchoBee: i don tire for the gist walahi.

@OP: Nobody is twisting your hands to pay tithe. If your church twists your hands, you are free to leave the church and join another. Those that are asking whether tithes are necessary or compulsory have already chosen not to give, and those who want to keep giving have made their choice as well. God sees all hearts, so why are we bothering with this gist?

Im following your posts, but I must confess, I skipped that explicit block of text [omigash! Too much detail there, God sees my heart, I tell the truth, I had to skip it]. More. . .?

Lol. Sorry, AIO. Let me learn patience. . .

@AIO: But Christ's name was given all authority only after the sacrifice! The sacrifice is what gives His name any significance! [insert Eph 1:19-23 here] [insert Phi 2:7-11 also]

see also John 1:12, those that believe on his name are those that receive him, and they thus receive power to become sons of God.

Lol @Krayola my friend! [post redacted]

[the rest of this post has been redacted]

^^^ Bring it on, viaro!

Way to go, JeSoul! Lol. Let Noetic provide proof or retract his statement! Hehehe

Tensor, answer me &Jesoul about Esther now, haba! You know, anything at all in the physical can be a tool to lead one into sin, even excess food or spending a lot of time online! Some things are not downright sins, its the motive and the extent that counts before God to whom nothing is hidden.

Lol @Kraviyarola. This upcoming exchange should be fun! *popcorn & soda, front-seat view*

@Adconline: how many times do I have to say I was only drawing parallels? I never implied that they are entertainers. I said i was acting as a SECULAR ADVOCATE ON THE DEFENSIVE. Secular, meaning that pastors may as well be entertainers or TV producers. Advocate, I was trying to act as a middleman for the defense. Obviously I did a bad job of that, seeing Im no lawyer. Mea Culpa. My error. I apologize.

*exits thread*

^^^
If you are as blessed as your name pronounces, you wont be too short-sighted to read where I wrote that I was explaining for the defensive, and I dont subscribe to such. I can explain why people honestly think its ok, because I have worked with such people in church when I was a teenager and they learnt to eventually respect my views on freewill giving. If you do not have enough time or attention to read the thread in perspective then its just too bad.

Thumbs up!

Everyone else, read the first two lines of my responses to Noetic and Wirinet. I already stated my own case. I am only explaining why some people think its ok.

@The Ashamed Wirinet:
I will answer you this once. Did you read my post? I made it clear that i dont subscribe to buying everything any man of God sells. Did you see that or your prejudice blinded you? And did you see where I said I was only advocating on the side of the defensive? Did you even read the post about tithes that i mentioned to Tudor before you started leaking?

I never said i support con men. Can you see the variance? Con men promise what they dont intend to deliver, and only because the conned was greedy or something. As for this case, there are proven examples of how true giving multiplies wealth. Ask Warren Buffet. So the question is to the church members; are they truly giving, or giving because they seek a magical windfall? And to the pastors: are they ready to do what is necessary in the spiritual to bring their words to effect? Elijah said there would be no rain but he spent hours in prayer to ensure it. Jesus spent hours early every morning before entering the streets and saying ANYTHING and seeing it come to pass.

Your bile towards Christianity makes you never consider my posts objectively. Here, i have even agreed with atheists and agnostics when they speak the truth. Whatever. Im out,

@tensor777: What about clothes? Since she is wonderfully made, why not wrap herself in a single sheet or wear the animal fur God made for them in Genesis 3? On the other hand, i need you to tell me if Queen Esther used make-up?

lol i laugh in Kalahari. When i posted this, I knew i was calling for Tudor. Lol

Okay, for clarification, threatening and saying such things like "a rain of punishment" is criminal. But that is not the case here where they were simply asked to donate without any threats, and such cases as you have mentioned is not the case often. Agreed, some people do that and I will be the first to speak against them. Im mobile so i cant insert posts now but if you check my last 3 posts from my profile you will see what i said about tithes. The same applies here too. Cheers.

Interesting topic. My first time on a family topic, i think.
I think sex education is highly important, because kids and teens will be educated either way by peers, the media, paedophiles,etc. They may learn the truth, or they may learn lies. So why not avert trouble and just tell them the truth at home before someone else tells them a lie and its too late?

Tell them at home, even before the school is allowed to do that. Tell them the truth. Teach kids to respect the truth from an early age by example: YOU should never lie to them in the 1st case. Many societal problems can be prevented if kids learn to trust their parents, and discuss any issue truthfully with them. Gone are the days of raising kids by fear!

Tell them that sex is good, but taken at the wrong time will only cause evil: like a boy who steals hot meat from the boiling stew pot, it damages his tongue and when food is served, he cant enjoy it. His taste buds are gone. Tell them the risks involved, so that they can judge for themselves above peer pressure.

Not this topic again. I will be very to-the-point.
1. Tithes were compulsory before Christ. For those in Christ, our tithe is paid in him already (him being the fulfilment of the whole Law)
2. In Christ you do not HAVE to pay tithes. Its a gift of love. Unlike the old testament where you have to pay tithe whether you want to or not, in Christ its better not to GIVE tithes than to give it forcibly or without respectful regard.
3. Most people who question paying tithes should not bother giving it cos God already sees their doubts. He knows those who can afford to spend the tithe on frivolities but choose to give it, and vice versa, and those who need to eat their Tithes (sometimes or all the time) like Levites of old. Nothing is forceful for the new Creation except keeping step with the Holy Spirit.

My man Noetic has spoken well! I dont do all biddings of any man of God, i need a confirmation in my own spirit.

Now let me tackle this secularly and advocate for the defensive.

@OP, what do you think about football stars, hollywood stars, musicians & standup comedians? Are they deserving of their earnings? The Bible says we are not to muzzle the ox that treads the grain because a labourer is worthy of his wages. The ox should eat freely out of the same grain field that it works on. There are people who will give any sum of money to see Beckham face to face or shake hands with Drogba, or support Kanu Heart Foundation with the last money on them. People have died because they wanted to see or touch Michael Jackson. Kanye West creates controversy, annoys many people and makes sales off it. Dbanj will always use dirty innuendo to pass across sensuous messages, but some people will do anything he says. Are all these people deserving of the attention or financial benefit?

My point is, what is the beef? Is it the undue attention and people-control? You cant say your complaint is cos of religion because some people's religion is hiphop and whatever the music industry says, they do and nobody raises an eyebrow. And i have never seen anyone complain about the undue amount paid to the gods of the soccer religion. Never forget that for some people, all the hope they have ever had in the world was gotten in the church.

If your point is about taxes, there i will agree with you. But its too bad that if taxes are instituted, poor churches will have an even harder time while the rich ones will still manage. And unlike companies, you cant sell shares to raise revenue for the sinking churches. What happens then?

If men have chosen to follow another man and do anything he says, (not anything at all, i hope you understand it is within limits) out of love and respect, there is nothing you can do about that. Thats how the world works. Those who dont take the lead pay those who are ahead. If you were not there when he was labouring in prayers and the word for the congregation, who are you to judge if he is paid for his services?

Just to be clear about this, if you are one of the church members, you may have the right to speak of what the pastor deserves. For those of us who are not, we do not know what makes the members do what they will so I think we should not condemn them. Leave it for God to judge.

If they were ministering lies and deceiving people for monetary gain, thats a different matter. As long as they are not teaching falsehood, God wants us to mind our business, lest we fall into error. E.g.
John 21:22-23

dork

Tudor, are you really female?