Okay I had to come back through mavenbox to beg you.

Will you please release my banned username InesQor? Your spambot was overworking as usual

I hope I am allowed to keep posting with mavenbox while I wait

Thanks

P.S. It's been, I think, 3 days now.

@viaro I also tried to repost the info you posted (I got it from your recent posts on your profile). Of course it was filtered by the spambot again. Maybe it has to do with those links and the way you wrote out your ideas.

Hi ilosiwaju! Thanks big bro, I have been relatively busier recently  

Deep Sight, do you remember a discussion we once had about the will of the Christian God, and predestination? And how I likened it to a chess game, where the Grandmaster can see many moves ahead? It is very possible for an atheist to be in a position that God intends them to be, to perform whatsoever role; but that's not all that fulfilling the will of God entails.

See the ff verses for more details.

Rev 17:17, Php 2:13, 1 Pet 4:17-19, 1 Pet 2:12-15, Eph 5:11-17

I think Viaro is right in saying that you can't just discuss "God" because that word has many meanings to many people. You need to be more specific.

@viaro: I guess the spambot has you. Dont try to re-post or you may get banned. happened to me before.

I smell a derailment. Let me leave here before I am labelled the culprit. LOL.

Thanks JeSoul! That is the same question I was asking the guy here https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=411111.msg5671763#msg5671763  on the Buddhism thread but he skilfully dodged answering it. 

Deep Sight:

^^^ My take is that it does not matter.

Like you once said - its the message, and not the messenger.

Can you correlate the statement above with all your vitriol on High-Christology i.e. the Deity of Christ, as divorced from His message?

Christology (from Christ and Greek -λογία, -logia) is a field of study within Christian theology which is concerned with the nature of Jesus Christ. Christology is generally less concerned with the details of Jesus' life than with how the human and divine co-exist in one person. Although this study of the inter-relationship of these two natures is the foundation of Christology, some essential sub-topics within the field of Christology include:

* the Incarnation,
* the Resurrection,
* and the salvific work of Jesus (known as soteriology).

lol

I love that cartoon, viaro!!!

Suhaibu, I can't believe you are learned!

[size=18pt]Job 25:1 Then answered Bildad the Shuhite, and said, [/size]
Job 25:2 Dominion and fear are with him, he maketh peace in his high places.
Job 25:3 Is there any number of his armies? and upon whom doth not his light arise?
Job 25:4 How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?
Job 25:5 Behold even to the moon, and it shineth not; yea, the stars are not pure in his sight.
Job 25:6 How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm?

Read things properly before you talk trash.

Hello m_nwankwo, it's been a long time. I hope you and family are doing fine? Best Wishes!

Great story.

Nasty book cover

@Ogaga: Mr Man, you are digging your own grave. Carry on!

Deep Sight:

^^^ My take is that it does not matter.

Like you once said - its the message, and not the messenger.

Can you correlate the statement above with all your vitriol on High-Christology i.e. the Deity of Christ, as divorced from His message? 

Christology (from Christ and Greek -λογία, -logia) is a field of study within Christian theology which is concerned with the nature of Jesus Christ. Christology is generally less concerned with the details of Jesus' life than with how the human and divine co-exist in one person. Although this study of the inter-relationship of these two natures is the foundation of Christology, some essential sub-topics within the field of Christology include:

* the Incarnation,
* the Resurrection,
* and the salvific work of Jesus (known as soteriology).

Suhaibu:

Am Allah's slave. What is wrong? the creator who created me is able and fit to be my Master.
But what about the God of the bible calling the human beings MAGGOT and calling your supposed god, Jesus a worm:

Job 25:4 How then can man be justified with God? how can he be clean that is born of a woman?
Job 25:5 when even to the moon is not bright; and the stars are not pure in his sight.
Job 25:6 How much less is man, who is but a maggot? and the son of man, which is a worm?

Which one do you prefer Davidylyn? to be a slave of God or a MAGGOT?

Don't be silly, Suhaibu 

That was Bildad the Shuhite talking, and not God. The only place where God called anyone a worm (a.k.a maggot) was Isaiah 41:14, and he was speaking of Israel when Israel was fearfully trembling like a worm in the face of adversity, like an earthworm caught in the rain.

Buddhism! Well, as Buddha himself is said to have said, “Believe nothing no matter who said it, no matter if I said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.” So I can see why the OP thinks atheists would love Buddhism.

Is Buddhism not anotther form of Atheism? See this website.

But tell us about the following:

"The historicity of Buddha is accepted by all. But there is no unanimity of the date. In Sri Lanka, 483 BC is accepted as the date of his nirvana while in Burma 544 BC is accepted. In Tibet it is believed to be 835 BC, while in China, 11th century BC is the accepted date. Buddha was an Indian and the Indian Puranic tradition believes that the nirvana took place in 1793 or 1807 BC"

-Hindu Books

Some modern Buddhist apologists have acknowledged that stories about the Buddha are compiled stories from multiple people and multiple events, canonized and amalgamated, there was no singular "Buddha" as is traditionally taught in Buddhism, and no aspect of Buddhism is other than that you'd expect to find in early India. It is entirely possible that there was no Buddha and that the stories of the Buddha's life were merely the same stories of similar lives of other sages, given a new catchy name.

What's your take on this, Deep Sight?

Praying for God's Will is not outdated.

@Enockia: Congrats

Interesting thread. I am just seeing this right now!

@Chrisbenogor: I just deleted the response I had at first, typed up. Let me go straight to the point here, but I will use many Bible verses to make my points clearer.

2 Cor 3:18 is one of my own favourite verses in the Bible

2Co 3:16 But whenever a person turns [in repentance] to the Lord, the veil is stripped off and taken away.
2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty (emancipation from bondage, freedom). [Isa. 61:1, 2.]
2Co 3:18 And all of us, as with unveiled face, [because we] continued to behold [in the Word of God] as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are constantly being transfigured into His very own image in ever increasing splendor and from one degree of glory to another; [for this comes] from the Lord [Who is] the Spirit.

And just before KunleOshob's favourite Bible Verse about Christian religion (in green), we have

Jas 1:21 So get rid of all uncleanness and the rampant outgrowth of wickedness, and in a humble (gentle, modest) spirit receive and welcome the Word which implanted and rooted [in your hearts] contains the power to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be doers of the Word [obey the message], and not merely listeners to it, betraying yourselves [into deception by reasoning contrary to the Truth].
Jas 1:23 For if anyone only listens to the Word without obeying it and being a doer of it, he is like a man who looks carefully at his [own] natural face in a mirror;
Jas 1:24 For he thoughtfully observes himself, and then goes off and promptly forgets what he was like.
Jas 1:25 But he who looks carefully into the faultless law, the [law] of liberty, and is faithful to it and perseveres in looking into it, being not a heedless listener who forgets but an active doer [who obeys], he shall be blessed in his doing (his life of obedience).
Jas 1:26 If anyone thinks himself to be religious (piously observant of the external duties of his faith) and does not bridle his tongue but deludes his own heart, this person's religious service is worthless (futile, barren).
Jas 1:27 External religious worship [religion as it is expressed in outward acts] that is pure and unblemished in the sight of God the Father is this: to visit and help and care for the orphans and widows in their affliction and need, and to keep oneself unspotted and uncontaminated from the world.

And also somewhere around one of DeepSight's favourite love-themed verses (in blue) within Paul's LOVE-themed chapter,
1Co 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
1Co 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

We find references to the Bible being like a mirror. What does a mirror do? It acts as a kind of control system: regulating the input with the output, comparing and adjusting until the input equates to the output. Once that is done, the mission is accomplished.

What do I mean by a control system?
Examples: The first Bible reference compares the input (the old covenant with its glory, attempts at fulfilling the law) to the output required (the new covenant fulfilled in Christ, the more-excelling glory). The second reference compares the input of studying the Word of God to APPLYING it (the fields of application are described in Jas 1:27 as CHARITY and PURITY. Charity in this case is used to refer to the helpless, but in general it would indicate someone who needs help, like the good Samaritan story; and purity involves righteousness and holiness). Righteousness means a kind of blamelessness and lack of guilt and holiness means having been set apart for a purpose (dumbed down definition). One is pure BECAUSE they are holy, which is because they are righteous; and this purity is an output that the input of "One's Growth in God" yields. And for the third Bible reference, see how 1 Cor 13:11 describes growth from a child to a grown man, going through phases of speech, understanding and thought-processes, all the while discarding falsehood and embracing truth. UNTIL maturity, and there are many parameters that will delineate the growth, but the greatest of these is Love. So, for our control system, the readings from the "love valve" are the most important, they are the rate-limiting definitions of our growth. Do not also forget that Christ said the way people would know his disciples was that love was their trademark (my paraphrase).

Joh 13:35 By this shall all [men] know that you are My disciples, if you love one another [if you keep on showing love among yourselves].

My gist is that the Scriptures constitute a device like a mirror, a control system that helps to tune us to perfection. What is that perfection? Walking in Love, even as our Father is Love!

1Jn 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
1Jn 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
1Jn 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

1Co 8:1 NOW ABOUT food offered to idols: of course we know that all of us possess knowledge [concerning these matters. Yet mere] knowledge causes people to be puffed up (to bear themselves loftily and be proud), but love (affection and goodwill and benevolence) edifies and builds up and encourages one to grow [to his full stature].
1Co 8:2 If anyone imagines that he has come to know and understand much [of divine things, without love], he does not yet perceive and recognize and understand as strongly and clearly, nor has he become as intimately acquainted with anything as he ought or as is necessary.
1Co 8:3 But if one loves God truly [with affectionate reverence, prompt obedience, and grateful recognition of His blessing], he is known by God [recognized as worthy of His intimacy and love, and he is owned by Him].

1Jn 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is (springs) from God; and he who loves [his fellowmen] is begotten (born) of God and is coming [progressively] to know and understand God [to perceive and recognize and get a better and clearer knowledge of Him].
1Jn 4:8 He who does not love has not become acquainted with God [does not and never did know Him], for God is love.
1Jn 4:9 In this the love of God was made manifest (displayed) where we are concerned: in that God sent His Son, the only begotten or unique [Son], into the world so that we might live through Him.
1Jn 4:10 [b]In this is love: not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation (the atoning sacrifice) for our sins. [/b]
1Jn 4:11 Beloved, if God loved us so [very much], we also ought to love one another.
1Jn 4:12 No man has at any time [yet] seen God. But if we love one another, God abides (lives and remains) in us and His love (that love which is essentially His) is brought to completion (to its full maturity, runs its full course, is perfected) in us!
1Jn 4:13 By this we come to know (perceive, recognize, and understand) that we abide (live and remain) in Him and He in us: because He has given (imparted) to us of His [Holy] Spirit.

Gal 5:6 For [if we are] in Christ Jesus, neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith activated and energized and expressed and working through love.

The Love of God is the ultimate message: that is the Gospel! The Scriptures provide a control system of reference to tune up to that message of Love, seeing everything through God's eyes and Man's eyes up until the point where both views coincided in the Son of God = Son of Man, the man now known as Jesus Christ. So, as much as I agree with Pastor AIO and DeepSight on the whole Love message, disregarding the Scriptures backing up that message of Love IS ITSELF A SORT OF DOGMA! Why do I say so? You can't tell people to walk in love when they do not understand what that kind of Love entails! You can't force a message of Love down people's throats from a God that, as far as they are concerned, has not demonstrated the kind of love he expects from them! If they knew of the sacrifice of Christ, they would appreciate the epitome of love, that bulls' eye mark:

Joh 15:13 No one has greater love [no one has shown stronger affection] than to lay down (give up) his own life for his friends.

But in our case as mankind, it was even worse, we were his enemies due to our sin and His own altogether Righteousness! But Jesus took us as friends since he himself preached showing love to your enemies.

Rom 5:10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, it is much more [certain], now that we are reconciled, that we shall be saved (daily delivered from sin's dominion) through His [resurrection] life.

So, for those brethren in the rural area or Kalahari desert or Deep Amazon Jungle, the Gospel of the Love of God is the message. "Okay so you are telling me that God expects me to love Him without restraint, and also to love my fellow man unconditionally? Why should I? I may like to learn by example! These guys are not all nice, some of them are my enemies, why should I love them?" And the scriptures would shed light on the matter: Even YOU were God's enemy when he gave HIS OWN SON to die for you. THAT is an example. If he could do that to save you, what will it cost you to love your fellow man, and to love the one who saved you?

So, seeing that the Word of God is like a mirror, preaching to such a congregation is only a matter of relating the input (current state of the heart) to the desired output (Walking in Love). The tools employed MAY vary across civilizations, and methods MAY vary as well. In fact, change those two MAYs to WILLs because what each one sees when they peer into the mirror is different from DeepSight, Viaro, Chrisbenogor or anyone else will see / saw at their own initial point of revelation (and that's just because our pre-Love experiences were varied!). I definitely would not, for instance, go into these kinds of treatises with the entire congregation. Okay, maybe with the exception of some few people who require further insight. All things are possible by the help of the Holy Spirit, so there is no "Evolving Religion" that He cannot handle.

*YAWN* Long and tiring day . I hope you make sense out of my post . I may return later to make edits.

^^^^ Just indulging, just indulging!

Interesting thread. I am just seeing this right now!

@Chrisbenogor: I just deleted the response I had, at first, typed up. Let me straight to the point here, but I will use many Bible verses to make my points clearer.

2 Cor 3:18 is one of my own favourite verses in the Bible

2Co 3:16  But whenever a person turns [in repentance] to the Lord, the veil is stripped off and taken away.
2Co 3:17  Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty (emancipation from bondage, freedom). [Isa. 61:1, 2.]
2Co 3:18  And all of us, as with unveiled face, [because we] continued to behold [in the Word of God] as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are constantly being transfigured into His very own image in ever increasing splendor and from one degree of glory to another; [for this comes] from the Lord [Who is] the Spirit.

And just before KunleOshob's favourite Bible Verse about Christian religion (in green), we have

Jas 1:21  So get rid of all uncleanness and the rampant outgrowth of wickedness, and in a humble (gentle, modest) spirit receive and welcome the Word which implanted and rooted [in your hearts] contains the power to save your souls.
Jas 1:22  But be doers of the Word [obey the message], and not merely listeners to it, betraying yourselves [into deception by reasoning contrary to the Truth].
Jas 1:23  For if anyone only listens to the Word without obeying it and being a doer of it, he is like a man who looks carefully at his [own] natural face in a mirror;
Jas 1:24  For he thoughtfully observes himself, and then goes off and promptly forgets what he was like.
Jas 1:25  But he who looks carefully into the faultless law, the [law] of liberty, and is faithful to it and perseveres in looking into it, being not a heedless listener who forgets but an active doer [who obeys], he shall be blessed in his doing (his life of obedience).
Jas 1:26  If anyone thinks himself to be religious (piously observant of the external duties of his faith) and does not bridle his tongue but deludes his own heart, this person's religious service is worthless (futile, barren).
Jas 1:27  External religious worship [religion as it is expressed in outward acts] that is pure and unblemished in the sight of God the Father is this: to visit and help and care for the orphans and widows in their affliction and need, and to keep oneself unspotted and uncontaminated from the world.

And also somewhere around one of DeepSight's favourite love-themed verses (in blue) within Paul's LOVE-themed chapter,
1Co 13:9  For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
1Co 13:10  But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
1Co 13:11  When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
1Co 13:12  For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
1Co 13:13  And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

We find references to the Bible being like a mirror. What does a mirror do? It acts as a kind of control system: regulating the input with the output, comparing and adjusting until the input equates to the output. Once that is done, the mission is accomplished.

What do I mean by a control system?
Examples: The first Bible reference compares the input (the old covenant with its glory, attempts at fulfilling the law) to the output required (the new covenant fulfilled in Christ, the more-excelling glory). The second reference compares the input of studying the Word of God to APPLYING it (the fields of application are described in Jas 1:27 as CHARITY and PURITY. Charity in this case is used to refer to the helpless, but in general it would indicate someone who needs help, like the good Samaritan story; and purity involves righteousness and holiness). Righteousness means a kind of blamelessness and lack of guilt and holiness means having been set apart for a purpose (dumbed down definition). One is pure BECAUSE they are holy, which is because they are righteous; and this purity is an output that the input of "One's Growth in God" yields. And for the third Bible reference, see how 1 Cor 13:11 describes growth from a child to a grown man, going through phases of speech, understanding and thought-processes, all the while discarding falsehood and embracing truth. UNTIL maturity, and there are many parameters that will delineate the growth, but the greatest of these is Love. So, for our control system, the readings from the "love valve" are the most important, they are the rate-limiting definitions of our growth. Do not also forget that Christ said the way people would know his disciples was that love was their trademark (my paraphrase).

Joh 13:35  By this shall all [men] know that you are My disciples, if you love one another [if you keep on showing love among yourselves].

My gist is that the Scriptures constitute a device like a mirror, a control system that helps to tune us to perfection. What is that perfection? Walking in Love, even as our Father is Love!

1Jn 3:14  We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
1Jn 3:15  Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
1Jn 3:16  Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
1Jn 3:17  But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jn 3:18  My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

1Co 8:1  NOW ABOUT food offered to idols: of course we know that all of us possess knowledge [concerning these matters. Yet mere] knowledge causes people to be puffed up (to bear themselves loftily and be proud), but love (affection and goodwill and benevolence) edifies and builds up and encourages one to grow [to his full stature].
1Co 8:2  If anyone imagines that he has come to know and understand much [of divine things, without love], he does not yet perceive and recognize and understand as strongly and clearly, nor has he become as intimately acquainted with anything as he ought or as is necessary.
1Co 8:3  But if one loves God truly [with affectionate reverence, prompt obedience, and grateful recognition of His blessing], he is known by God [recognized as worthy of His intimacy and love, and he is owned by Him].

1Jn 4:7  Beloved, let us love one another, for love is (springs) from God; and he who loves [his fellowmen] is begotten (born) of God and is coming [progressively] to know and understand God [to perceive and recognize and get a better and clearer knowledge of Him].
1Jn 4:8  He who does not love has not become acquainted with God [does not and never did know Him], for God is love.
1Jn 4:9  In this the love of God was made manifest (displayed) where we are concerned: in that God sent His Son, the only begotten or unique [Son], into the world so that we might live through Him.
1Jn 4:10  [b]In this is love: not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation (the atoning sacrifice) for our sins. [/b]
1Jn 4:11  Beloved, if God loved us so [very much], we also ought to love one another.
1Jn 4:12  No man has at any time [yet] seen God. But if we love one another, God abides (lives and remains) in us and His love (that love which is essentially His) is brought to completion (to its full maturity, runs its full course, is perfected) in us!
1Jn 4:13  By this we come to know (perceive, recognize, and understand) that we abide (live and remain) in Him and He in us: because He has given (imparted) to us of His [Holy] Spirit.

Gal 5:6  For [if we are] in Christ Jesus, neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith activated and energized and expressed and working through love.

The Love of God is the ultimate message: that is the Gospel! The Scriptures provide a control system of reference to tune up to that message of Love, seeing everything through God's eyes and Man's eyes up until the point where both views coincided in the Son of God = Son of Man, the man now known as Jesus Christ. So, as much as I agree with Pastor AIO and DeepSight on the whole Love message, disregarding the Scriptures backing up that message of Love IS ITSELF A SORT OF DOGMA! Why do I say so? You can't tell people to walk in love when they do not understand what that kind of Love entails! You can't force a message of Love down people's throats from a God that, as far as they are concerned, has not demonstrated the kind of love he expects from them! If they knew of the sacrifice of Christ, they would appreciate the epitome of love, that bulls' eye mark:

Joh 15:13  No one has greater love [no one has shown stronger affection] than to lay down (give up) his own life for his friends.

But in our case as mankind, it was even worse, we were his enemies due to our sin and His own altogether Righteousness! But Jesus took us as friends since he himself preached showing love to your enemies.

Rom 5:10  For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, it is much more [certain], now that we are reconciled, that we shall be saved (daily delivered from sin's dominion) through His [resurrection] life.

So, for those brethren in the rural area or Kalahari desert or Deep Amazon Jungle, the Gospel of the Love of God is the message. "Okay so you are telling me that God expects me to love Him without restraint, and also to love my fellow man unconditionally? Why should I? I may like to learn by example! These guys are not all nice, some of them are my enemies, why should I love them?" And the scriptures would shed light on the matter: Even YOU were God's enemy when he gave HIS OWN SON to die for you. THAT is an example. If he could do that to save you, what will it cost you to love your fellow man, and to love the one who saved you?

So, seeing that the Word of God is like a mirror, preaching to such a congregation is only a matter of relating the input (current state of the heart) to the desired output (Walking in Love). The tools employed MAY vary across civilizations, and methods MAY vary as well. In fact, change those two MAYs to WILLs because what each one sees when they peer into the mirror is different from DeepSight, Viaro, Chrisbenogor or anyone else will see / saw at their own initial point of revelation (and that's just because our pre-Love experiences were varied!). I definitely would not, for instance, go into these kinds of treatises with the entire congregation. Okay, maybe with the exception of some few people who require further insight. All things are possible by the help of the Holy Spirit, so there is no "Evolving Religion" that He cannot handle.

*YAWN* Long and tiring day  . I hope you make sense out of my post  . I may return later to make edits.

LMAO @A_K_O

KRAYOLA! I am also waiting to see what you have to say!! (wink*, wink**)

Starting to get tired of Nairaland and everyone proving a point or expecting you to do so

This thread don derail, no be today

@Deepsight: We have been over this so many times, so I really doubt that this will be the patch to fix our leaking canoe. I have used so many analogies and I keep coming up with more (since you have said that you do not take the Bible as a final authority, I won't bother quoting verses to you so I will try to use day-to-day experiences). I will make the patch very small so it can be easily downloaded 

There is an expectation from God for all men to live right, in good conscience, love, peace and in justice. Man kept failing to meet up, like your everyday average (or below average) student, although some exceptional people got close and God "rounded out" their scores "approximately" according to their faith (this included many non-Jews like Job and fathers of faith like Abraham), pending the arrival of His own perfectly-timed provision: Jesus.

Jesus came, showed men how to live as God intended from the start, and finishing his mission, he died, thus creating an identity platform so that others will not have to strive to please God - anyone who comes through THAT platform has already pleased God and satisfied the pre-requisite for salvation. They all get to "pass". But to have a "distinction", they have to LIVE the life. And that's where working out your salvation comes in.

As I said like twice or thrice now, salvation is "confessing Christ", taking a vow to nationalize into the kingdom of Heaven. Then there's the patriotism you are meant to show in that kingdom, you need to learn it and so you are given an instructor who knows the heart of the President and teaches you the official language. That is the salvation of the soul: patriotism to the Kingdom. The soul is not exactly saved at confession, but the time to learn patriotism to God's kingdom varies as much as learning curves vary. Some people get it in days, others in years. Some, during the Great Depression as I once read, have gotten it genuinely in hours.

One last analogy on this salvation, faith and works thingy, Deepsight. Please consider it in light of ALL the discussions I have had with you on this matter, you will know how this long tori applies.

Imagine you are caught in a crazy snowstorm on your way back from work, and your car develops a problem. The snow refuses to subside and it's late so you have to walk and you're drenched to the skin. There are no guest-houses to stop at so you keep walking and freezing on the inside. When you can't take it anymore, you see a large house with a brightly-lit neon notice that they afford shelter to passers-by, especially in winter. You hurry there and see a maid concernedly waiting at the door, clad in thick clothes and smiling warmly, offering a hand. You have a choice, you can stay right there in the heavy snowstorm, at the front porch just few metres from that open door, or you can come in. Let's just assume you come in. Your wet clothes are taken off you and you are given thick, crisp and dry clothes and made to sit by the fireplace. It's dinner time in your wonderful host's house and guests are around. But of course, you are still shivering like someone who is still in the snowstorm. Although, your own case is assured. Those out there may die before they get help.

In this case,
1. You have been saved from the rain because you chose to come in, through the rich invitation extended to you by the host, communicated to you by the maid, publicized by the neon lights.
2. The snow had some effects on you, which have not worn off. Staying by the fireplace will take those effects off. But meanwhile, you are still shivering terribly. Your "soul" has not yet been saved from the snowstorm.

I hope I achieved my purpose of making the post. I really do.

@Everyone:
Ohm I love the end-of-year Holidays! The cold, everything!!
Lest I forget to say it: Have a Merry Christmas, people 

Thanks Tonjoan. Now I don't know what to say, but I am glad that at least one person understood me , which is often a rare occurence unless I'm physically there to explain what I mean. Words fail me very often

Thanks again! You kinda made my day

@Aloy.Emeka: If someone tells me that she has an MBA from Harvard, and I see the certificate, will the onus be on me to confirm if the certificate is falsified? I take people by their word unless proven otherwise. Yeah, its an assumption. You get time to dey respond to DeepSight about living for Christ? You dey try o!