₦airaland Forum

mbaemeka: Hebrews 2:9, 14, 16-18 AMP

But we are able to see Jesus, Who was ranked lower than the angels for a little while, crowned with glory and honor because of His having suffered death, in order that by the grace (unmerited favor) of God [to us sinners] He might experience death for every individual person.

Since, therefore, [these His] children share in flesh and blood [in the physical nature of human beings], He [Himself] in a similar manner partook of the same [nature] that by [going through] death He might bring to nought and make of no effect him who had the power of death–that is, the devil–

For, as we all know, He [Christ] did not take hold of angels [the fallen angels, to give them a helping and delivering hand], but He did take hold of [the fallen] descendants of Abraham [to reach out to them a helping and delivering hand]. [Isa. 41:8, 9.]

So it is evident that it was essential that He be made like His brethren in every respect, in order that He might become a merciful (sympathetic) and faithful High Priest in the things related to God, to make atonement and propitiation for the people's sins. For because He Himself [in His humanity] has suffered in being tempted (tested and tried), He is able [immediately] to run to the cry of (assist, relieve) those who are being tempted and tested and tried [and who therefore are being exposed to suffering].

shdemidemi: Jesus had earlier said only God is good, He applied this word when he said

Matthew 20
15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?


At what point exactly was Jesus imperfect?

Heb 5:9 (hint)



I Corinthians 10:9

"Neither let us tempt (test) Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents."

Do you remember the setting Paul is talking about? As a result of Israel's sin, God sent poison serpents out amongst the camp, and the little rascals would bite the Israelites, and it would kill those who were bitten. They had to run to Moses and say, "Do something about this." Then Moses has to go to God for instruction. And what does God say? You put up a brazen serpent up on a pole, and tell the children of Israel when they get bitten by one of these snakes they can look at the brazen serpent and be healed.

And remember brass always speaks of judgment in The Bible. That was another foreview of the work of Christ, when He took our sins on whom God's judgment fell then of course we are healed of our sin problem in what we call forgiveness, and Salvation, and justification, and all the rest.

God was actually tempted and this does not contradict what James said- Do you understand it now?

shdemidemi: @mbaemeka

I will show you a foreview and a pointer to the death of Jesus/God in the old testament.

In ancient times, COVENANTS were taken so seriously that you could not just cut a covenant with anyone because they carried penalties if broken by any of the parties involved. The principle of covenants was strictly understood by all in those days, because if either party did not fulfil their part of the covenant, something tragic would happen to the offending party.

The general idea about the animals that were cut into two parts by Abraham was that a requirement between the two parties involved in covenant would be to walk between the divided animals so as to signify that “may this be done to me if I break this covenant; may I be torn apart, may I be cut in half like these animals if I fail to carry out my part of the covenant”.

God instructs Abraham to get some animals: a heifer, goat and ram, each to be three years old. He also told him to bring a dove and young pigeon. He got the animals and God told him to divide the heifer, goat and ram into two parts and arrange them adjacent to each other, but the birds were not to be divided into two parts. God was about to cut a covenant with Abraham/man.

Abraham prepares the animals, but God is not man; so they won’t both walk between the divided animals. Abraham falls asleep and a horror of darkness enveloped him. A smoking furnace and a burning lamp (signifying the presence of God) went between the animals. ‘Wow!, That was God’, he would have reassured himself when he woke up from his dream. God made that covenant with Abraham. Abraham was not allowed to participate as the second party in the covenant; God was on both sides. In other words, God assured Abraham that He (God) should be torn apart like the animals if eventually He failed to keep His part of the covenant. God took full responsibility for the fulfilment of the covenant if eventually Abraham/man fails, although God was the first and the second party in the agreement.

At Golgotha, there was darkness from the sixth hour to the ninth hour and eventually because of the failure of mankind, and He died. God died.

His immortality eventually became mortality; his immutability did suffer mutation; the impossible became possible; the infallibility became fallible. God was cut off and trampled in the dust.

Jesus is God..

shdemidemi: What an incorrigible student of the bible you are!

How do you even compare the literal scar on the body of Jesus to the figurative blemish on the lamb?

lamb was used as a shadow of Jesus that is to come.

A lamb without blemish as used in the old testament represented Jesus without sin and not Jesus without bruise or scar.



My brother, go and read your Heb 2:18 and Heb 4:15 properly. The context at which Jesus was tempted was the cause of suffering to Him and not a drawing away to sin.

Peter to his fellow countrymen said this- Acts 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?- Does this statement stop God from being who He is?

Israel constantly tempted and tried God with evil.

I Corinthians 10:9

"Neither let us tempt (test) Christ, as some of them also tempted, (tested) and were destroyed of serpents."

I hope you get to understand Jesus being tested does not make Him less of a divine being. The case of temptation of Christ or God came from without and never within due to uncontrolled appetite or evil passions as a result of the sinful nature.

Digest carefully.

Jesus had earlier said only God is good, He applied this word when he said

Matthew 20
15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?



God does not expect us to be as good as Jesus by any strength we have in our flesh. We don't have the ability within our flesh to live a life close to the standard God expect or to the standard Jesus lived. Only Jesus could do this and that is why we are covered on the back of the righteousness of Christ.
phil 3:3
3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

A sinful flesh can never be perfect, but Jesus was perfect on all sides. God expects us to keep renovating/renewing our mind by the bread/His flesh/communion/His word to tame that sinful desires within us.

Romans 12 King James Version (KJV)

12 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God

JESUS NEVER NEEDED SUCH RENEWING OF MIND AT ANY STAGE BECAUSE HE IS PERFECT.

BabaGnoni: GBAM, SMH

trustman: Mbaemeka you trying to shift the focus from my position with you. That is deceitful to say the least. DO NOT place on me things I have not said. Ok? 
If need be paste my quote to be sure it's from me. Ok?
You are answering a number of people at the same time and maybe you're getting confused as to who said what. 
My position is clear:
You said Jesus had SINFUL FLESH but I've used scripture to show that that is impossible. He had flesh, yes but a sinful one, NO. He had no flesh of sin. Unlike our body (every other single human being) Adam's sin was not imputed to him. Therefore he was free of sin spirit, soul and body. 
Let me restate it again Jesus' body (I.e. His FLESH) was not a sinful flesh like you claim. He had no sin nature derived from Adam that would have tainted his flesh. 
I also stated that by the time he started his ministry Jesus was fully prepared for it. In other words he was SPIRITUALLY MATURED. The implications of this should be clear to anyone. 
DO NOT try to redefine the word SINFUL. Sinful is sinful. Sinful means has sin in one form or the other. Trying to say sinful means "susceptible to sin" is an attempt to TWIST the meaning of the word to conform to your changed position perhaps. 
When I mentioned integrity and you deridedly  labeled me Mr. Integrity it again showed you for who you are. Instead of owning up to your wrong you are attempting to change the meaning of words. That is lack of integrity. That is deceit. That is falsehood. 
I am not saying Jesus didn't have flesh. He did. BUT I'm saying that unlike your position it was not a SINFUL FLESH. If it were it would not be an offering acceptable to God because it was God (not the devil as some WoF preachers claim) who required to be propitiated. And God required a PERFECT sacrifice which in the case of man's sin-bearer had to be sin-free. The major issue with man was SIN. If it is to be resolved why would anything with sin be the thing to resolve sin? Simple reasoning isn't it?
Your trying to overemphasize blood over other parts of the body was again why I showed you from scripture that the flesh was equally stressed in scripture as part of the salvation work to the extent that the HOlY COMMUNION (The Lord's Supper, Eucharist, etc) the highest extant ritual(observance) in Christendom refers to the BODY of Jesus Christ. So to belittle the body is not a small matter before God.

OLAADEGBU: He prepared a special body for Himself to dwell in:

trustman: [s]You Word of Faith devotees and promoters will always interpret scripture from your WoF theology. 

I quoted - 1 John 3:5: “You know that he appeared to take away sins, and in him there is no sin.”
And you've been contesting it without any reasonable argument. 
Even in the face what others have tried to help you see, you still refuse to accept that you are wrong. 

Apparently you did not even bother to refer to the Romans passages I referred you to. Instead you make snide remarks.[/s] 

Why it is hard for you to see that Jesus had to be WITHOUT DEFECT spirit, soul and body (flesh) I do not know. Unless you may have seen it from our presentations here BUT you do not want to admit you were wrong. 

[s]You are not to conform the written Word to your theology or 'revelation' of your Man of God. You should first seek a clear understanding of the Word[/s]. 

Please see the following portion of John and I ask for your clear explanation in line with your view of Jesus' flesh:
John 5:51
"I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever.[size=14pt] And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh."[/size]

[s]A person with the gift of healing should exercise the gift. Does he have to first teach others 'faith' before his GIFT becomes effective? After all it a 'gift' which he already has, isn't it ? Will a person with any other gift, like say, helps, first teach others what the gift is all about before he can use his gift?

Show me where Jesus took people WHO NEEDED HEALING through a one week session before healing them. No inferences please. 
This will settle it for me and I'm sure many others on the authenticity of healing schools.[/s]

shdemidemi: [s]46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord[e] from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly
Now, don't just read this verse hastily, take your time to study it.
There are two men - one of the earth (Adam)and the other from heaven(Jesus)
One was made of dust and the the other heavenly
As the man of dust are you and I. -made of dust v48
As the heavenly man are those who are heavenly.
One thing is certain from this passage.. Jesus was never linked to that man made of dust, they are two different men made differently from scratch, though alike in the image we see.
The body of Of Adam made of dust and all who come through him will definitely return to dust. The body of Jesus never returned to dust because it was never made of dust. The body returned to where it belong.
Every man on the face of the earth will return to dust but the regenerated spirit in them will be clothed by a similar body of Jesus that will never see death or corruption.
Please read carefully, don't be hasty to throw back your next points[/s].

shdemidemi: [s]Jeusus did not need john's baptism to be who he is neither did he need the Spirit at that time. God was only declaring him for John and others to see and know what God had kept as secret for 30 years. He was who he was, filled with God's spirit even before he was conceived.

He did not become the king of Israel when he became 30, he was the king even in that manger. 'For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.'

All these he was even at birth but was declared to us and to John at the time God did. Was Jesus shocked when all these things happened! No. He knew who he was but must wait until the appointed time to tell the people about his kingdom where he will be the king. Miracles were byproduct, the message of the kingdom was the primary reason why Jesus started his ministry.

Raising people from the dead was not Jesus' priority, after all those people will die the physical death again. [/s]

vooks: Hebrews says He is NOW in Heaven, not He went to heaven before he ascended

John 20:17's puzzle is answered by
Matthew 28:8 So Mary M and the women left the tomb quickly, with fear and great joy, and ran to tell his disciples. 9 But Jesus met them, saying, “Greetings!” They came to him, held on to his feet and worshiped him.


To John's 'TOUCH ME NOT' is veeeeery different from Thomas' and 'held on to his feet', unless you imply that between John 20:17 and Matthew 28:8, Jesus rushed to heaven after encountering Mary alone,came back and allowed the rest of the women (on the same day) to touch him

shdemidemi: Do you read your bible just to turn it over completely. The flesh and its members are what Paul referred to as evil; nothing to do with his spirit. The spirit man is pure, he is saved but the flesh is what remains of the sin we inherited through the genes of our parents(Adam). Paul constantly preached on how the flesh should be constantly mortified so we do not answer to his needs and desires.

Does Jesus need to subject his own body to pain to avoid sin? No. He never had to. He never lived in a sinful body. We are the ones who live in perpetual conflict between our spirit man and the sin nature. Both trying hard for domination of a believer.

Such conflict never existed with Jesus.

vooks: There are not types of sinful flesh what is factual is Jesus had NO sinful flesh. Flesh yes according to John but NOT sinful flesh

if LIKENESS means EQUIVALENT, then mbaemeka you are God because He mad e you in His likeness. What is the point of the word LIKENESS in Romans 8:3? Isn't it redundant?

Romans 8:3 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

3 for what the law was not able to do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, His own Son having sent in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, did condemn the sin in the flesh,

shdemidemi: [s]My friend, we do not obey God for the fear of sickness and death. The early Christians understood this too well, they cared less about their welfare as long it is in line with God's will. I presume you do not know where you are placed in God, Paul understood this too well, which explains why he said such man will yet be saved even after he's been delivered to the devil.

Col 3
3 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

Where exactly is a Christian? He is hid in Christ in God. In Christ in God..

Whatever sickness or death that is not permitted by God must go through God and Jesus to get to me. I don't have to pray and fast for this, it is where I am placed, it is a done deal.[/s]

[s]Been delivered to the devil does not change who I am in Christ, but demean my progress as to achieving the star prize or reward for walking and labouring for God as I should.[/s]

By pushing this man out of the gathering, his spirit man stops to grow for lack of God's knowledge (faith comes by constant hearing) and his flesh starts to flourish and rule over him. This man will certainly go from one level of depravity to a higher level as much as he does not learn God's word.

[s]What that man must have suffered might not be fully understood today because when one is expelled from redeem, you walk straight to chris church and from chris to Tb Joshua if you ain't feeling chris. It was a big deal at the time. Moreover there is no precedence of a Christian who gets punished by sickness or poverty simply because he gets excommunicated by a church. That is your erroneous inference to God's word.

If anything, we have seen faithful men that are tried, sift as wheat even until physical death in the bible. So please stop the WoF movement believes that makes the gospel seem like man and his wishes come before God and his sovereign will.[/s]

trustman: Read the entire Romans 7 and then go back and start from chapter 6 to eight then we'll see later. Hope you do.

OLAADEGBU: No one is saying He had a heavenly body, our Lord Jesus Christ created a body that He would live in when He arrived and that was not a sinful body. Below is a copy and paste article for your perusal and if you are not convinced I'll bombard you with more.

shdemidemi: I knew you were going to go down this path- who wouldn't die? even Paul died.

Delivering this man to the devil does not mean he will die or he will suddenly fall sick or poor. We have people who worship and dine with devil, yet they seem to flourish.

Putting this man away from the gathering of saints is more like stopping this fellow from learning about God, thereby making it impossible for him to carry out the will of God concerning his life; doing this is heaping burning coals on his head. Nothing to do with suicide, sickness or all of those things you assumed.

Book of Galatian put the frosting on the cake for this-
Galatians 6:1

"Brethren, (believers) if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, (the leaders of the congregation) restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted."

shdemidemi: Do you know an invisible God appeared to people in a physical form in the old testament?

Leave theophany alone for another day, face the topic at hand. If you insist, I will show you different portions of sripture to back his pre-existence.

shdemidemi: What sort of question is this! Did Jesus try to perform any miracle before the appointed time?

If God says 'I have put my Spirit upon Him' even before he was born, who are you to say otherwise?

Why don't you read further down to see what Paul thought of Christ in contrast to what he thought of Adam-

46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord[e] from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear[f] the image of the heavenly Man.


Did you see hat Paul said about the flesh we have- the image of the man of dust. Jesus is not in this image, He is in the image of the heavenly man.

If you must know, the verse you quoted referred to the man in the image of the man of dust. An heavenly man does not need a new glorified body, He has that already.

We are making progress, you are starting to spot differences. slowly but surely.

shdemidemi: who told you the man acted remorseful?


It is quite obvious you don't understand what Paul meant by that statement. Explain how satan can take advantage of such man from your perspective.`

shdemidemi: Why get yourself worked up over a simple question...

Isaiah 42
“Behold! My Servant whom I uphold,
My Elect One in whom My soul delights!
I have put My Spirit upon Him; (this was a prophecy showing that God had given Jesus a divine authority way before he was born)
He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.

He was described as God, mighty savior et al. He was the same God the son through whom all was made.


You claim this same God had a corruptible flesh that was changed, show me where the bible mentioned a thing like that.

shdemidemi: @winsomex

Adam is different from Jesus in all ramification....

Everything that was made was made by God through Jesus.. Adam was also made by Jesus. Jesus couldn't have sinned even if tempted. He remains true and every other man remain a liar.

Colossians 2:9

“For in him (in Christ, in God the Son) dwelleth all the fullness of the (What?)… Godhead bodily.”

Christ had always appeared in some form even in the old testament- whenever God the Son had to communicate, like with Adam and Eve and Abraham, He appeared in human form.

OLAADEGBU: All of the above. The outward flesh of the human body of our Lord Jesus Christ was exactly like our bodies but it had been preserved free from inherent sin by the Holy Spirit that overshadowed Mary, and as for Romans 8:3 I'll rather flood you with reasons why our Lord Jesus Christ had a sinless body:

1. Jesus Christ had no Fall, thus making Him sinless.

2. Jesus Christ our Lord did not submit to satan and to his spirit and sinful natures (Ephesians 2:2).

3. Jesus came from the woman but was not the seed of man (Genesis 3:15; Isaiah 7:14; 9:6-7; Matthew 1:18-23).

4. Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit and not by man who could not produce a sinless offspring. God is holy and cannot produce sinful offspring which is according to the law of reproduction in Genesis 1:22-28.

Thus by means of a woman God could send Christ in the likeness of the flesh controlled by sin, and yet not of sinful flesh controlled by sin and satan.

"Who did no sin, neither was guile found in His mouth" ( 1 Peter 2:22).

"But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon Him; and with His stripes we are healed" (Isaiah 53:5).

Bidam: I await his response.What i understand by his post is that he compared 1 peter 1:19 to 1 peter 2:24..His wounds were the actaul blemish He bore for our sins and healing..You might not be comfortable with the way he said it but i don't think he is far from the truth. The lamb without blemish was chosen before the world began..and revealed in these last times according to scriptures..When He bore our sins since He did not commit any(not that He could not as some of you are insinuating here)He had our sins on His Body...so we might die to sins and leave for righteousness..Scripture is clear abeg.

shdemidemi: The man was excommunicated! do you just ignore these things or you really can't see them? If a church member does something wrong, the church can come together to expel such a person as advised by Jesus. Paul was instructing the church to forgive this person. He was not forgiving him for the sake of eternal judgement like Christ did during his earthly ministry. I hope you get the difference this time.

what do you understand by Paul's statement?