₦airaland Forum

shdemidemi: Ok, I get your drift that I am an Israelite. I think I heard that from jesusislord on this forum. It will be interesting to know if bidam shares the same belief as yours.


You didn't seem to answer the question I asked earlier though.

Should we be guided by the Torah even as Christians?

It would interest me to know your definition of GRACE.

shdemidemi: Going by your analogy, we as Christians should study the Torah and be guided by its dos and don'ts. We should also check that we don't break any of it and if we do, we should quickly beg for forgiveness. Right?


Please give your definition of GRACE.

Goshen360: Being rude in SPEECH is not same as rude in ATTITUDES, you rude in both.

Goshen360: You are rude!

Goshen360: Now, I can see you don't understand Grace neither do you understand the law you advocate. None of them you understand. You are not ready for discussion hence, you just ranting and say people don't understand this\that. You that understand it, explain; you can't even explain but scriptures quoting out of context here and there. If you're going to discuss with yourself, fine but if you want to discuss with others, let line be upon line and precept upon precept and let us follow the discussion in a straight manner.

kayuseful: funny enuf, these law guys dont keep the laws they advocate o. Moses' law was so difficult, so Jesus came to increase the yoke. how many times av you lustfully consider a pretty girl and after that you pluck out the eyes as Jesus COMMANDED? how many times hav u cut the hand that made you sin as in the magnifed law of Christ? you just replied people harshly here, whereas Jesus said u shd turn the other cheek if one slaps you.
well! heaven is real! hell is real! choose where you want, 'cause i perceiive you hav not yet accepted the Lordship of Jesus, the one on whom we trust and make heaven. saved by grace alone says one of our hyms,. another says, t is enuf that Jesus died. another: In Chrst ALONE my hope is found. keep the modiifed moral laws, okay? but i know that "by the deeds of the law shall no flesh b justfied"

kayuseful: brother of God, ha! i feel u o
you didnt read the next verse: Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

JMAN05: How many times will I read my bible to change James 2:10? That statement there is non negotiable pal. In short you are cursed, if you miss one.

For all those who depend upon works of law are under a curse; for it is written: “Cursed is every one that does not continue in all the things written in the scroll of the Law in order to do them.

Moreover, that by law no one is declared righteous with God is evident, because “the righteous one will live by reason of faith.” Gal. 3:10, 11.

No amount of reading will change that. So your division only exists you guy's mind not the bible.

haibe: The old covenant is the the whole laws governing the jews, its not just the sacrifial laws bro. Infact there is no where the bible divided those laws into moral and sacrificial, this is just man made

haibe: I can't help but laugh at the way you twist scriptures to support your opinion

haibe: Maybe you need to start from page 1 to see all the verses I quoted, I can't keep repeating myself.

The bible.never said only the sacrificial law is gone, it says the law is gone.

haibe: The bible tells us the law is gone, not just sacrificial.

haibe: So you even know you can't keep all and yet you hold unto it like you can be righteous by it, smh.

Even though good works are essential for the
Christian, they cannot be used to secure the
righteousness God requires. A Christian’s salvation
comes “not by works of righteousness which we have
done” (Titus 3:5), nor does it come even by trying
to obey the law on our own (Galatians 2:21).
Indeed, Paul shows that the righteousness of God
is manifested “without the law” (Romans 3:21) and
it comes “to him that works not” (Romans 4:5). The
apostle Paul writes about a “righteousness without
works” (Romans 4:6).

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of
God : for if righteousness [come] by the law, then
Christ is dead in vain.

You cannot be declared righteous by obeying the law bro, our righteousness is imputed into us, its the righteousness by faith



“Knowing that man is not justified by the works of
the law but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we
have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be
justified by the faith of Jesus Christ, and not by
the works of the law.”

haibe: That's true, theologians divide them for easy understanding but before God the law is taken as a whole, you break one, you break all and are guilty of its judgement.

JMAN05: lol. which one is moral and sacrificial law? The law is the law. If you insist on the law, you must keep all of it. If you fail in one, the law will condemn you. With the law, no one can be declared righteous. That is why christ came.

You must keep all the law if you insist that it is not abolished. this sacrificial and moral division only exist in people's minds. For God, you miss one, you miss all. James 2:10

Goshen360: Many times, it is Christian argument that makes it look as if scriptures contradict itself not knowing it is our inadequate studying that manifest. James and Paul never contradict themselves. Jesus and Paul never contradict themselves. Peter and Paul\James never contradict themselves. Where does confusion comes from for what I know, God is never the author of confusion. We hold on to the 10 commandments as if it can produce life to Christians - Life is in Christ, not in the 10 commandments.

King James Bible
For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

Sin revival BY THE LAW, that's what most Christian churches are teaching and same is happening in this thread.

In fact, the 10 commandment is a ministry of death and condemnation but there's no condemnation to those in Christ. It only those given the law that will be judged by the law. Those the gospel was preached to will be judged by the gospel. The law is a shadow of truth not a complete truth in itself. Follow the law, you follow incomplete truth - Christ is the way, TRUTH and life, the complete package\gift of God.

haibe: I don't get your point, james is still a jew and not a christian? or james did not become a christian? you may need to expantiate on that.




Do you keep all the laws or not? yes or no, you can go to google and search for the 613 laws.

What James said still stand whether a jew or christian, if as a law keeper you break one of the laws, then you are guilty of all.

Goshen360: The problem is you need show us how Christ magnified the law that people couldn't keep before he came and magnified for us today. Are you aware The best person that ever boasted TO HAVE KEPT THE WHOLE LAW FROM CHILDHOOD still LACK ONE THING?



There's still no problem, tell us the MEANING OF THOSE WORDS - Grace, law, truth, holy, bible, love etc.

trustman: " For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ". - John 1:17
This appears to me to be a CONTRAST between the law that came through Moses and what Jesus brought. Nowhere here is TRUTH equated to the law. Where did the Bible say that truth is the law? Secondly, without GRACE man is hopeless. If we stop preaching that which give life, hope and eternal life to anyone what hope will there be for anyone?

haibe: I have told you the works james talked about is not works of the law but works inspired by faith. works doesn't always mean of the law, it could be good deeds

shdemidemi: I agree with you that this book of Hebrews was not written to the church but to Israel/ the Hebrews. I also agree that the second covenant spoken about here is to the nation of Israel.

I totally disagree with this statement of yours- Christ also came to abolish the sacrificial laws. Not morals, he came to correct morals

That is where most Christians are missing it, Jesus did not come to teach you morals. There is no level of moral that proves sufficient in the sight of God, infact an Hindu worshiper can be morally upright or more benevolent than a Christian. Can we be more moral than the self-righteous scribes who will attack Christ every time he is seen with sinners(non-Jews).

Christ came to save us from eternal doom through His death and ascension cos we couldn't have saved ourselves. If my morals could save me, then the death of Christ would be in vain.

haibe: You preach your opinion, the death of Christ abolished the old covenant(whether sacrificial or moral) and established a new one, period.

haibe: You read out of context, where does the bible say the holy Spirit teaches the law there, if Christ taught his disciples spiritual lessons and so does the holy spirit, how does that mean the Holy spirit teach the.law of moses?

Jesus taught the law only because he hadn't fulfilled the requirements of the law at that time, after he ressurected, he fulfilled the obligation of the law and established a new testament

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold,
the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a
new covenant with the house of Israel and with the
house of Judah:
9 NOT ACCORDING to the covenant that I made with
their fathers in the day when I took them by the
hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt;
because they continued not in my covenant, and I
regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with
the house of Israel after those days, saith the
Lord; I will put my laws INTO THEIR MINDS and write
them in their HEARTS: and I will be to them a God,
and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his
neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know
the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to
the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness,
and their sins and their iniquities will I remember
no more.
13 In that he saith, A NEW COVENANT, HE HATH MADE
THE FIRST OLD. NOW THAT WHICH DECAYED AND WAXETH
OLD IS READY TO VANISH AWAY.


A NEW COMMANDMENT I GIVE UNTO YOU , That ye love
one another; as I have loved you, that ye also
love one another.(John 13:34)

The greatest commandment is not even of the law.


Matthew 22:36-40 "Teacher, which is the great
commandment in the Law?" And He said to
him, "'You shall love the Lord your God with
all your heart, and with all your soul, and
with all your mind.' "This is the great and
foremost commandment. "The second is like it,
'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' "On
these two commandments depend the whole
Law and the Prophets."