₦airaland Forum

I come to this Nairaland section anytime I want to laugh and they never disappoint.

^^^ Some of them have been put on video cds you can purchase at shops. If I can find some of my old ones I might be able to let you know what to ask for.

I will vote for a goat before voting for IBB, but that is not the issue here. Mr Dokpesi has a right to support IBB or any candidate of his choice. Op also has the right to cancel subscription to businesses owned by Mr Dokpesi's as a political statement. That is a non-violent, constitutional, proper way of expressing himself and there is nothing irrational about it.

I now see why he had so many wives. Kabyesi, Solo!

What I would like to say in response is contained in your post: such experiences are meant for those who had them. If we are to deploy them in the service of humanity, that there is life after death is not given. Like you said, it is given, only to the religious person. Even religious people experience doubts. The question of whether I will be happy when I die can only get an answer specific to an individual, since those who believe in life after death believe there is reward for the just and punishment for the unjust, so I am quite unsure how the thought that NDEs might answer it even arises. If NDEs are authentic in relation to the ultimate reality, I doubt that is the question they are meant to answer. What I am saying is that if they only prove that there is life after death, then they would have achieved something extraordinary. Whether they do that is a different matter entirely.

But, of course, there is not much difference in what we are saying. I buy your argument that they don’t mean much in terms of showing the way - they are unlikely to meet the skeptic’s standard of “proof” anyway. The point I made in that post was that these experiences may have been deemed necessary to those who were permitted to have them. I have no illusion they will lead humanity to Nirvana or something.

Sagamite:
I cannot know for a fact if anybody knows or have interacted with God.

My own views are deistically inclined and I share many of the thoughts you have expressed in this thread. The major difference is that in the above statement I would substitute "do not" for "cannot".

That ^^^ is a way of looking at it, but I am not as sure as you are that it is unnecessary, vesc. Maybe our needs are different. Maybe these experiences are necessary for certain people but not for others. I don't know for a fact, but maybe one's inner yearnings have something to do with it. Even in the affairs of men a few are often chosen for a trip. In the Bible Jesus is reported to have picked only three of his 12 friends for the transfiguration experience. Why, I don't know. And there are people who live a godly life even though they have never heard of God and don't care whether God exists or not. There are others who spend their lives searching for God, whether they live good lives or not. Do these influence who is permitted these experiences? I don't know.

I, too, have pondered the fairness angle. But since we are talking about God, I doubt there would be anything unfair about it. Didn't someone say "to whom much is given much is expected?" For vescucci who is open minded and does not follow a creed because he has had no revelations and he believes the honest way to glorify God for giving him a brain is to not follow blindly, I think it is commonsensical that he can only be held up to how well he treats his fellow human beings and his environment, rather than how much faith he had in the unknown.

If a tiny proportion of those who die are permitted to come back, perhaps for exceptional reasons unknown to us, I personally don't feel threatened at all.

Oh, I sure mistakenly "roped" you in with mazaje there!

Pastor AIO:
Orunmila is called enikeji olodumare. Olodumare's second in command. Eleri Ipin - that is witness to creation. Apparently when Olodumare was creating the world he was there observing everything, thereby giving him the knowledge of how everything works.

In the light of that ^^^, what exactly is the position of Obatala?

@op
(1) Is it true that human sacrifices are still routinely demanded by some orisha and are carried out by some of these societies such as the Reformed Ogboni Fraternity, Oro, and is one of the rituals carried out when an oba passes on?

(2) The Reformed Ogboni Fraternity was (re)formed by a Christian minister early in the last century. How about the old traditional Ogboni. Does it still exist?

^^^ Thanks for clearing that up.

@mazaje

I find your complete dismissal a tad extreme. It appears you are being as dogmatic are the religiously inclined whose religious views you dismiss for being dogmatic.

If you read thread again you will find that the concerns you express have been repeatedly addressed. These differences in experiences should be borne in mind when analysing these matters. I think too many people use these experiences to validate whatever it is they already believe. Therein lies the mistake. Does that – the fact there are differences – on its own mean that these experiences are lies? That has been addressed adequately hereabouts. Using your standards of proof, there is no way Muslims seeing malaikas and Buddhists seeing nirvana can on its own prove that NDEs and OBEs are in your head. M_Nwankwo offered his views on that generally earlier. And Mad_Max offered hers are it relates to NDEs. You may wish to scroll back and read the story of the three kids:

Group NDE
Here are two examples of when a group of people die or almost die together and share an NDE.
http://www.near-death.com/group.html

It may prove nothing, but if you read it objectively, it addresses your concern.

Heightened brain activity? Nope. Scroll back and read the experience of George Rodoniah.

George Rodonaia
This guy was dead for three days after a car accident and was in the morgue. He was an atheist at the time. He came back when they were cutting into him during an autopsy. If he'd been Moslem, no coming back. He'd have been buried. Needless to say, that was the end of his atheism.
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/evidence10.html

Read objectively. This professor was either telling an elaborate lie he cooked up while sober or he actually went into some cosmic realm. Heightened brain activity is simply impossible here. Comparing NDEs with the physical body lifting a car does not cut it. That is a case of the body exceeding its capacity to achieve an imperative goal. The brain does the same when you are in trouble. In NDEs, it appears the experiences are, for the most part, not brought about by a burning desire to achieve anything. That desire only comes after the fact. That is, it is when mazaje dies and finds himself surrounded by lights that the first thing that drops into his mind is: How about God? Could he really exist?

And the question of whether they were really dead is debatable, since in many of the cases the doctors believed they were and cleared them for burial. I am not saying I take these experiences as proof of anything. I am just trying to show you that your grounds for dismissing them don’t stand on solid ground.

Interesting. Whither Olaadegbu?

Hi Saga

Sagamite:
I do not believe anybody in the past, present or future knows anything about God or what it wants, hence I do not believe in any of the so-called scriptures and can pick holes in most in seconds because it is written by medieval people, who despite good intelligence had blatant limited knowledge and display some immense ignorance of their times that betrays their argument that they were writing for God.

Sagamite:
Personally, I don't bother my little brain  with this unknown unknown as I don't think it is possible to know and nobody knows and can ever know.

I see with you on this knowing thing. I know next to nothing, myself. However . . .

How can we know for a fact that nobody knows and can ever know? I understand you have looked at the theses shoved in your face and could rip them apart in seconds. Fine. But what you have had the opportunity of interacting with is probably an infinitesimal part of what is out there. Even your interaction may have been at a superficial level, at best. And that is to say nothing of the biases engendered by the actions and inactions of the pioneers of movements and the salesmen of spiritual goods.

Given the fact of our limited viewpoint, do you find it reasonable to completely dismiss the possibility that God has ever revealed himself, albeit not to you, or in a way you have recognized – yet?

First off, I thought a babalawo was necessarily an Ifa priest. How come you are chief priest Ogun, the god of iron?

^^^ If you want to understand things better, listen a little more to Sunday preachings on your telly. Being a lover the arts, I do listen. There is something insidiously, ruthlessly, horribly efficient about the psychological methods used - tell people what they want (even if they don't need it), reel off examples, repeat it again and again. Now, that's a simple way of putting it.

[quote author=Tonye-t link=topic=315268.msg6673878#msg6673878 date=1283273049]I wonder if Christ would want to receive those piteous remarks. . .how much more a servant like me for giving a truth (fact as you put it)  [/quote]OMG! To sympathise means to feel what you are feeling, Tonye. It was not meant to be piteous in that context.

[quote author=Tonye-t link=topic=315268.msg6673945#msg6673945 date=1283273791]I'll continue morrow. . . [/quote]Ok. I will respond whenever I get back here.

^^^ I sympathise with you on the fact that people are not noticing the good things you say are being done. I believe these things should be acknowledged. I also think hypocrisy, criticising others while doing nothing yourself, is wrong.

[quote author=Tonye-t link=topic=315268.msg6672900#msg6672900 date=1283264008]I feel it is simply not a good idea to condemn God's word simply because one Man of God somewhere uses it to buy bliss and live luxurious.[/quote]You see, the problem is that this is the dominant thing around.

[quote author=Tonye-t]Why is no one talking about these things?. . .is it because they choose to hide themselves (in line with scriptural injunctions) and do these goods that folks dont notice them?.[/quote]Here are just three of the reasons I think many people think little of your leaders -
- Using aggressive methods which include threats of not "receiving from God" to get the flock to turn out their pockets
- Using psychological methods to work crowds while promising them things that are not realistic or even of lasting importance
- Splurging in luxury

Now let's say a church collects money using the tactics above and actually spends a percentage of it on the poor and hopeless of the earth. But at the same time the pastor goes around with a private jet. (If you need to refresh your memory on the cost of parking your aircraft on the tarmac daily, use Google.) People are bound to see this as needless expenses. They will constrast it with the humble lives led by Jesus, Peter, James, Paul and the others and wonder what modern day Christian leaders are about. They will try to find the New Testament principles being followed by your leaders and fail.

Compare that with the leaders of some other religions - even within Christianity. There are no Cardinals who cruise around in private jets, yet the Catholic church has a lot of money and it spends a good deal on charity. Reminds me of that orthodox priest in the movie, Delta Force. All that kind of person is concerned about is God and humanity. He will not pass by a suffering person without stopping to say a kind word. He is ready to sacrifice his life for others at a moment's notice. Money means completely NOTHING to him. He reminds you of Jesus himself, as reported in the gospel accounts, and the apostles. Why are such leaders no more? Do you think anyone would complain about the simple car he drives and the modest house he lives even if such come from church coffers?

If you leave Christianity and talk about other religions, you will also see that things are different. Religious leaders tend to live with the people, rather than Lord it over them. But your leaders appear to be different. They tell you to contribute money in order to receive from God! And the next thing you see them living in luxury. What are people to think? There is a post in another thread about pastors who charge lots of money to appear at crusades and revivals. What are people to think? These and other brazen acts of venality are bound to eclipse whatever good is done, Tonye - at least in the minds of many people.

Couldn't stop laughing at this one!
 

Wife for one day
By Funke Egbemode 08055069066 (SMS only, please) {egbemode@sunnewsonline.com}
Saturday, August 14, 2010

The alarm goes off at exactly 5.00am. He turns on his side and taps his wife.
‘Honey, go and get the kids ready.’
‘Aren’t we forgetting something here? Today is the day you are wife for one day. So, off you go.’ Madam rolls over to get one more hour of sleep. Mr hops out of bed. First challenge? It takes forever to persuade children to get out of bed especially if the next bus stop is the bath. Today is particularly not good. Daddy does not know how to cook or do early morning deals with Junior. Worse still, the water is not hot enough because daddy did not know he was supposed to switch on the heater before commencing the get-out-of-bed routine. Thankfully, without any casualty, bath time is over.
At the breakfast table, he finds out that Junior won’t take Cornflakes because Benita is doing so. He wants Cocopops. She wants Milo. He wants fruit juice. Half of everything still ends up uneaten. Is this how these kids waste my money? He asks himself. Well…

Madam is down, ready for a quick breakfast.
‘Can I just have a toast and coffee, please?’ She asks, like a husband.
He slaps her with his looks. She slaps him right back with a mocking grin.
‘Hurry up darling, am running late for my first appointment.’ She rubs it in.
He dashes off to get ready after serving the coffee with a slice of burnt offering which he must think is toast.
‘Is my lunch packed, darling?’ she calls after him, trying not to laugh.

‘Lunch, what lunch? I’m also running late. Silifa will pack something for you.’
‘Is the maid now in charge of my food?’ She smothers a full-throated laughter
‘She won’t poison you and I’ve got a job to go to too.’ He shouts back.
‘Okay love. Just be down in time to see the kids off to the school bus. Have a great day at work and don’t forget to call Aunty Romoke about the catering arrangement and aso-ebi’ for her daughter’s wedding next weekend. ‘
The kids are laughing and so is Silifa. This wife-for-day drama is better than Big Brother Africa.

‘Daddy actually wore an apron’
‘…and he made our breakfast.’
He drags himself into the house at 8pm, tired and ready to drop. All he wants is a good warm bath and a hot dinner, in that order. He’ll get them but not so quick. But this wife for one day is not going to get his shower, cold or warm now. He’s going to have to find out why Junior’s counters are all over the floor of the sitting room and why Benita’s teddy bear is sitting on the piano. He rushes into the kitchen, still screaming, with the bag of groceries he’d stopped over to buy at the market. He opens the freezer only to discover that it is switched off. His ogbono soup is spoilt and he thought he’d leave cooking till the weekend. How could the silly house girl switch off the freezer for God’s sake?
“Silifaaa!’, he screams harder
‘Sorry ma, it was when ‘NEPA took light’ that I switched everything off and I forgot to switch it back on. I’m sorry ma.’
If looks could kill, Silifa would have died right on the spot. What is he going to do give ‘this man’ for dinner now? He was banking on that ogbono and poundo yam. Now this foolish girl has ruined it…
His phone rings. It’s Madam.

‘I’m stuck in traffic and hungry enough to eat a cow. I’d like that delicious ogbono soup and ground rice. See you soon dear.
You see his life now. She has to want ogbono tonight of all nights.
Junior chases Benita into the kitchen, both of them grabbing each of their dad’s legs.

‘He beat me’.
‘She poured water colour on my book.’
He tries to make peace as he retrieves her legs from the warring parties. She sets about the ogbono and ground rice. One hour later, dinner is ready. He’s still in his Hawes and Curtis shirt.
Time to check the children’s home work. He packs their books into their bags. Next on the list of to-do is tomorrow’s breakfast for the children. Cereal, juice and fruits. He makes a mental note; buy more apples and noodles and Ribena.

Wife strolls in and falls into a couch. He takes her bag and jacket and returns with a glass of water. She grunts a thank you and goes to have her bath. He serves the dinner. At the table she finds out he is not eating. He has just a glass of juice in front of him.
‘Why aren’t you eating? Are you okay?’ She asks.
‘My dear, I’m just tired. All I want to do now is sleep. God, it’s been one long day.’

‘You should try and eat something, you know? ‘
She gets up while he clears the table. He reminds her of the house keeping allowance for the month.
‘I’ll write the cheque before I leave for the office in the morning?’
‘No, I don’t want a cheque. Please, give me cash. You know I hate going to the bank?
‘Well, that means you’ll have to wait until I have the cash.’
‘Please, the kids need some things and that can’t wait. We’ve run out of noodles and Ribena. There is no stockfish, no snail. What am I going to cook with? Or you want to start eating red meat?’
‘In that case, use your money. I’ll refund you.’
‘Not on your life. Since when did refund become a concept that works in this house?’
‘Since now.’

‘This is not a joke.’
‘And I am not laughing. In fact, your money problem is disturbing my Channels news. Can we talk about this later? Thank you.’
He stalks off into the bedroom.
Oooooh God, the bedroom looks like a hurricane just swept through it. Her pants and bras are in a heap on§ one side of the bed and his own boxers and handkerchiefs on the other. Four trouser suits are at the foot of the bed choking his best tie and the dressing table is a mess of jewellery and perfume bottles. She does this every morning. She simply can’t make up her mind on what suit or wrist watch to wear until the bed looks like we are having a sale.
His back aching, he sets about cleaning and clearing. He’s the one who made the rule that the house help must never clean their bedroom. Is this what she does every day? He soon restores some semblance of sanity to the area. Before his head hits the pillow, he’s snoring. Then, he feels something soft, or two soft things rubbing against his back and warm fingers on his chests… He tries to turn but his back is killing him. His head has a battalion of soldiers marching back and forth inside.

‘Darling please, go to sleep. My back aches, my head…’
‘Oh no, you can’t have a headache today. No you can’t. All aches will just have to wait, my love.’
‘Please…’ she purrs and goes to work, pressing the right buttons.
Ten minutes later, music is over. An uninteresting duet indeed.
He can’t wait to become the husband again.
Are you laughing? I think it’d be really cool to let our men act the wife-for-one-day script. Who wants to take the first shot?

Couldn't stop laughing at this one.


Wife for one day
By Funke Egbemode 08055069066 (SMS only, please) {egbemode@sunnewsonline.com}
Saturday, August 14, 2010

The alarm goes off at exactly 5.00am. He turns on his side and taps his wife.
‘Honey, go and get the kids ready.’
‘Aren’t we forgetting something here? Today is the day you are wife for one day. So, off you go.’ Madam rolls over to get one more hour of sleep. Mr hops out of bed. First challenge? It takes forever to persuade children to get out of bed especially if the next bus stop is the bath. Today is particularly not good. Daddy does not know how to cook or do early morning deals with Junior. Worse still, the water is not hot enough because daddy did not know he was supposed to switch on the heater before commencing the get-out-of-bed routine. Thankfully, without any casualty, bath time is over.
At the breakfast table, he finds out that Junior won’t take Cornflakes because Benita is doing so. He wants Cocopops. She wants Milo. He wants fruit juice. Half of everything still ends up uneaten. Is this how these kids waste my money? He asks himself. Well…

Madam is down, ready for a quick breakfast.
‘Can I just have a toast and coffee, please?’ She asks, like a husband.
He slaps her with his looks. She slaps him right back with a mocking grin.
‘Hurry up darling, am running late for my first appointment.’ She rubs it in.
He dashes off to get ready after serving the coffee with a slice of burnt offering which he must think is toast.
‘Is my lunch packed, darling?’ she calls after him, trying not to laugh.

‘Lunch, what lunch? I’m also running late. Silifa will pack something for you.’
‘Is the maid now in charge of my food?’ She smothers a full-throated laughter
‘She won’t poison you and I’ve got a job to go to too.’ He shouts back.
‘Okay love. Just be down in time to see the kids off to the school bus. Have a great day at work and don’t forget to call Aunty Romoke about the catering arrangement and aso-ebi’ for her daughter’s wedding next weekend. ‘
The kids are laughing and so is Silifa. This wife-for-day drama is better than Big Brother Africa.

‘Daddy actually wore an apron’
‘…and he made our breakfast.’
He drags himself into the house at 8pm, tired and ready to drop. All he wants is a good warm bath and a hot dinner, in that order. He’ll get them but not so quick. But this wife for one day is not going to get his shower, cold or warm now. He’s going to have to find out why Junior’s counters are all over the floor of the sitting room and why Benita’s teddy bear is sitting on the piano. He rushes into the kitchen, still screaming, with the bag of groceries he’d stopped over to buy at the market. He opens the freezer only to discover that it is switched off. His ogbono soup is spoilt and he thought he’d leave cooking till the weekend. How could the silly house girl switch off the freezer for God’s sake?
“Silifaaa!’, he screams harder
‘Sorry ma, it was when ‘NEPA took light’ that I switched everything off and I forgot to switch it back on. I’m sorry ma.’
If looks could kill, Silifa would have died right on the spot. What is he going to do give ‘this man’ for dinner now? He was banking on that ogbono and poundo yam. Now this foolish girl has ruined it…
His phone rings. It’s Madam.

‘I’m stuck in traffic and hungry enough to eat a cow. I’d like that delicious ogbono soup and ground rice. See you soon dear.
You see his life now. She has to want ogbono tonight of all nights.
Junior chases Benita into the kitchen, both of them grabbing each of their dad’s legs.

‘He beat me’.
‘She poured water colour on my book.’
He tries to make peace as he retrieves her legs from the warring parties. She sets about the ogbono and ground rice. One hour later, dinner is ready. He’s still in his Hawes and Curtis shirt.
Time to check the children’s home work. He packs their books into their bags. Next on the list of to-do is tomorrow’s breakfast for the children. Cereal, juice and fruits. He makes a mental note; buy more apples and noodles and Ribena.

Wife strolls in and falls into a couch. He takes her bag and jacket and returns with a glass of water. She grunts a thank you and goes to have her bath. He serves the dinner. At the table she finds out he is not eating. He has just a glass of juice in front of him.
‘Why aren’t you eating? Are you okay?’ She asks.
‘My dear, I’m just tired. All I want to do now is sleep. God, it’s been one long day.’

‘You should try and eat something, you know? ‘
She gets up while he clears the table. He reminds her of the house keeping allowance for the month.
‘I’ll write the cheque before I leave for the office in the morning?’
‘No, I don’t want a cheque. Please, give me cash. You know I hate going to the bank?
‘Well, that means you’ll have to wait until I have the cash.’
‘Please, the kids need some things and that can’t wait. We’ve run out of noodles and Ribena. There is no stockfish, no snail. What am I going to cook with? Or you want to start eating red meat?’
‘In that case, use your money. I’ll refund you.’
‘Not on your life. Since when did refund become a concept that works in this house?’
‘Since now.’

‘This is not a joke.’
‘And I am not laughing. In fact, your money problem is disturbing my Channels news. Can we talk about this later? Thank you.’
He stalks off into the bedroom.
Oooooh God, the bedroom looks like a hurricane just swept through it. Her pants and bras are in a heap on§ one side of the bed and his own boxers and handkerchiefs on the other. Four trouser suits are at the foot of the bed choking his best tie and the dressing table is a mess of jewellery and perfume bottles. She does this every morning. She simply can’t make up her mind on what suit or wrist watch to wear until the bed looks like we are having a sale.
His back aching, he sets about cleaning and clearing. He’s the one who made the rule that the house help must never clean their bedroom. Is this what she does every day? He soon restores some semblance of sanity to the area. Before his head hits the pillow, he’s snoring. Then, he feels something soft, or two soft things rubbing against his back and warm fingers on his chests… He tries to turn but his back is killing him. His head has a battalion of soldiers marching back and forth inside.

‘Darling please, go to sleep. My back aches, my head…’
‘Oh no, you can’t have a headache today. No you can’t. All aches will just have to wait, my love.’
‘Please…’ she purrs and goes to work, pressing the right buttons.
Ten minutes later, music is over. An uninteresting duet indeed.
He can’t wait to become the husband again.
Are you laughing? I think it’d be really cool to let our men act the wife-for-one-day script. Who wants to take the first shot?

Joagbaje:
A man that can't find a job should create one. There is no shame even if he has to push wheel barrow, sell okrika, pure water, newspaper, learn a trade or skill etc. But he can do better than that. His Pastor will be in the position to counsel him.

A man that is inapable doesn't exist, except if he is a vegetable in the hospital. Such should be helped of course.

A young widow should get a job, An elderly widow should be cared for by relatives but in the absence of that, the church will take care of them but they should be at least 60 years old and be submitted to a church serving God there.
Orphans are our responsibility. I have quite some that I sponsor with shelter and academics.

Broadly, I agree with you. Your rigid rules will not work all the time, but that's another matter.

Following from what you wrote above, do you not see why the early church used the church as a place for "food sharing" along with using it as a "place where you are fed with the word of God"? Do you not see why it is inappropriate to care for the pastor only while neglecting those who suffer?

In the olden days people lived communally and widows, orphans, the infirm, the poor, and strangers passing through, were cared for from the common purse. Giving up 10% of your earnings makes a lot of sense under these circumstances. But the case is different today. I think that is what people are mostly on about when they criticise certain things done today.

This is roaringly hilarious! Couldn't stop laughing.

This thread reminds me of that great soup. Got to seek it out soon.

Joagbaje:
Church is a place where you are fed with the word of God , and not food sharing . Ofcourse if a brother is destitute, he should be helped but not by spoon feeding him. He should work!. I will rather establish a man in a petty trade than handing down food . We may eat together in love feast. But not for certain individual living on hands down from others. Christ didn't die to make you live in poverty. A man should be encouraged to  work.

The above is basically correct - the dignity of labour and self-reliance. But still there may be problems. Before it appears that the early church referred to in that citation from Acts was out to encourage laziness, we might ask:

How would you, Joagbaje, address a situation whereby a man does not work because:
(1) He can't find a job.
(2) He is incapable of working - think of the disabled, elderly widows, orphans, and the others that Dorcas used to look after.

vescucci:
I nearly bust a gut when someone said something about the Holy Spirit manifesting in seven ways. That takes me back! The seven manifestations of a manifestation.

Some words, due to their ontology, manifest and get staggeringly famous around here. I think manifestation just joined the likes of ontology and staggering.

nuclearboy:
Works are therefore the difference between someone who follows God and someone who's just talking.

Excellent!

Final

I have just taken a first glance. Lots of Rosicrucian stuff in there - or lots of its stuff in Rosicrucianism.

This one might interest you, too (assuming you have not seen it previously).

Fantastic! Waiting for the others.

^^^ Yeah, prosperity isn't bad. And what kind of God wouldn't have pleasure in the prosperity of his servant? But I think there's a lot that is bad happening around. Anyway you and the others have discussed that matter extensively and I have no wish to rehash it.

Krayola:
Toronto is great. Starting to get cold again. I've missed this place a lot. Just reading some of the threads now and I see it's still a warzone. Too much fun

You can say that again. The old hands are still mostly active and a few new people came aboard. We say old things in old ways, old things in new ways, new things in old ways, and new things in new ways.