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Christianity Etc › Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: the only true religion? by MyJoe: 4:01pm On Aug 02, 2010

RWilliams:
Quote from my Joe
Do also know your Organisations’ alliance with political powers?

I Guess you mean this, amazing how so many people are just itching to hype something up to try and prove gods people wrong, it is really laughable the time and effort you put in to it

Highlighted is the problem. How do you get a man to reason when he has been impregnated with the belief that the reason anyone would say disagreeable things is because of his being chosen by God? And this indoctrination is done using hot button phrases like “God’s people”, “Jehovah’s organization”, “the truth”, and a few others.

As for that jibe about putting time and effort into it, that’s right. I put some time and effort into understanding what makes the JW tick a few years ago in my desire to get a better of understanding of a religion that claims to be uniquely true. You can’t blame me – if there’s a true religion I deserve to find it! But I did find something: what over six million people think is a bridge to God is just another Brooklyn Bridge. Knowing the power of religious indoctrination, especially the clever methods used by the JW to accomplish it, I don’t expect you to pause a moment and reconsider what you believe in and dispense to others. But I don’t think you can blame me, too, for being a goat and refusing to make do with the feel-good sermon retailed at the door and at your meetings and conventions, rather than a sheep who would be led by a kid with a stick, this time, a Bible and some Watchtower and Awake magazines full of prefabricated questions designed to prevent you asking any from your own intellectual faculties. In any case, you expend far more time and effort into writing here and preaching from house from house than I do.

* I once saw a video titled Purple Triangle. It was first made by some British TV station, I think. I wonder how 17 year old Wilhelm Kuserrow who was shot, his 20 year old brother Wolfgang who was guillotined, August Dickman, and, in fact, all 890 Witnesses who were murdered by the Nazis will regard you for referring to reference to association with a political movement as “hyping something up”.

* I wonder what response Maureen Mwanawasa (former Zambian first lady) who was disfellowshipped for attending political meetings will give to your reductionism.

* And I would give anything to see your face as you try to explain to your “brothers and sisters” who were brutally tortured, jailed, imprisoned, and despoiled, in Zimbabwe and Malawi why they were not allowed to carry party cards but the Watchtower Society can carry a UN card.

It appears you, sir, are incapable of comprehending why your church’s alliance with the UN generated so much furore, so I decided to lay it for you as I have above. You see, nobody cares who signs up with the UN. But the Watchtower? Declaring fast and drinking water in hiding is universally frowned upon. And rightly so. So what is laughable, sir, is seeing an adult endowed by God with the gift of reasoning swallowing weak lies and mumbo jumbo without asking questions.

Since you came back with a response I would have expected you to address the important issues I raised like your claim to being the one true religion in the entire world in the light of love, preaching and the other matters; your doctrines which change with phantasmagoric constancy; prophecy; the lie that Christendom’s waters are drying up; the non-disclosure of history; and the other sundry matters raised. After all, those issues bother on the “truth” which you are trying to spread here. But no, you had to dig up that hurriedly cobbled together paragraph that caused me considerable laughter when I first read it six years ago. Anyway, let’s address the “response”, a very weak attempt to explain away a horrendous mistake that cost your organisation hundreds of thousands in membership.

RWilliams: The UN "Debacle"

Spokespersons at the Witness' headquarters in Brooklyn, NY, has since explained that:

"Our purpose for registering with the [United Nations] Department of Public Information as a nongovernmental organization (NGO) in 1991 was to have access to research material available on health, ecological, and social problems at the United Nations library facilities. We had been using the library for many-years prior to 1991, but in that year it became necessary to register as an NGO to have continued access.

If the above contains the simple truth, why is the leadership of your church so sensitive about this matter, such that any Witness that discussed it with another risked being expelled?

Access to the UN information system was always available through UNBIS.net. But let’s assume, without conceding, that the society needed a party card to attend a library. Would that have made it right, considering the stand on “Christian neutrality”? But it just follows a pattern, something I believe you are unaware of. If you wish to know what I am talking about, look for any detailed report, that is not written by Watchtower, of the 1918 court trials of the leadership of your church and pay attention to the statements made by Rutherford. Then find and read the Declaration of Facts written by Rutherford and read at a convention in 1933. Consider, too, why it was okay for Witnesses in pre-70’s US to carry US passports which had a statement on them that stated that by signing you agree to support and defend the Constitution of the United States, but it was wrong for Witness kids to sing the national anthem. After reviewing the above (there are plently more instances if you want them) perhaps, just perhaps, you will be helped see how clearly the leadership of your organisation respects the rules it makes and pushes down the throats of the rank and file.

RWilliams: Registration papers filed with the United Nations that we have on file contain no statements that conflict with our Christian beliefs.

The above is untrue. The Watchtower agreed to support and respect the principles of the Charter of the United Nations. They also agreed that they would have the commitment and means to conduct effective information programmes with their followers and to a broader audience about UN activities. And the UN Charter does contain statements that conflict with your "Christian" beliefs.

RWilliams: Moreover, NGOs are informed by the United Nations that 'association of NGOs with the DPI does not constitute their incorporation into the United Nations system, nor does it entitle associated organizations or their staff to any kind of privileges, immunities or special status."

What does that ^^^ mean? undecided

What privileges, immunities or special status did Watchtower want?

RWilliams: Still, the Criteria for Association of NGOs-at least in their latest version-contain language that we cannot subscribe to. When we realized this, we immediately withdrew our registration. We are grateful that this matter was brought to our attention." 3

That ^^^ is a classic. It is a dubious one I find highly reprehensible for any leadership, particularly a religious one, to put out. Is it possible Williams can’t see what the person that wrote it is up to?

Anyway, it is a fact that the Watchtower withdrew a day after Stephen Bates exposed its UN membership in an article in The Guardian of London. It was the Bates article that prompted the hurried withdrawal. There was no change of language in UN criteria for Association that day. The criteria there are now are the same as there were when WT joined up.

RWilliams:
Also how can you call venerating and worshiping the Murder weapon of Jesus "a minor thing"

For many Christians I know, the most important thing in the world is that Jesus died for their sins. But doing a forensic analysis of the murder weapon like an investigating police officer preparing to face a hotshot attorney is just the sort of thing Watchtower is good at. I guess it helps to sustain the illusion of being different from the rest, besides providing the coursework that gives the rank and file plenty to do. You brought up the issue of trivialities, agreeing with many sincere Christians that doctrines are not that important. Now you make a turnaround and quibble in Watchtower fashion. And where did I say anything about venerating and worshiping, which is clearly a different matter?

RWilliams: especially when you realise that Cross worship has many pagan roots, and nothing in the bible alludes to it being a cross.

I would like to see the shirt you are putting on right now and maybe then I would be able to tell you what has pagan roots or not. As for the Bible saying whether the murder weapon of Jesus was a cross or a tree, maybe when I feel up to talking Greek and Latin. But I would bet you don’t know jack about that. Anything the Watchtower Society says. . .

RWilliams:
Not sure how to quote an excerpt from another blogger on this forum, help please?

From the Reply field, you need to scroll down to see previous posts. Click on "Insert Quote" (at the right hand side) for any post you wish to quote.

Foreign Affairs › Re: Rehabilitating The Self Image Of The Black-man by MyJoe: 11:48am On Jul 30, 2010

[quote author=oyinda. link=topic=487972.msg6477376#msg6477376 date=1280461236]I really thought that the point of the article was to refute the quote in d first sentence.
well, the article failed woefully on that one. and i'm disappointed that i will have to agree with Aime Cesaire.

we Africans are indeed "those who never explored anything, those who never tamed anything, those who give themselves up to the essence of things.” I totally agree.

maybe we ppl from Sub-Saharan Africa did in the past. but we have no written records of it. or these records are not accessible to the average person.
Egyptians don't even consider themselves as Africans. says a lot.[/quote]While your submissions are brilliant, I disagree with them. I think the question of the race of ancient Egyptians is important in debunking the lie that Africans never contributed anything to world civilisation. I agree we have no philosophers and scientists to point to in the Middle Ages or even a fairly long time before that, but civilisations have risen and fallen at different times throughout the ages. If a great African civilisation, which birthed others, existed before contemporary writing was invented, the absence of written records such as everyone can read does not in anyway mean that the civilisation was non-existent. The absence of detailed written records does not invalidate the splendor and achievements of the Binis, the Malis, the Noks, and the others. For me, the question is: were the ancient Egyptians really black Africans? There are a lot of references in that article. I think Diop's writings are worth examining.

And I really think you should not have added that last statement at all. Modern Egyptians are Arabs who came from the Arabian peninsular following the Arab conquest of Egypt in the 7th century. They don't come into this discussion.

Politics › Re: Omg! - N90m Marriage & Funeral Budget For Govt Staff. by MyJoe: 6:10pm On Jul 28, 2010

texazzpete:
So because some Nigerians are stealing, everyone should be allowed to steal abi?

That, sadly, is how many of our people see things.

Politics › Re: South Africa Deports 47 Nigerians by MyJoe: 5:42pm On Jul 28, 2010

SA Lady:
RSA emboldment LOL! story of my life. You know when I saw Omo's request I thought I could do the translation for her since you were not around, but then I realized that the poem is going to loose its flavour. I also dont know if we have the same words in english e.g. Mmala wa sebilo.

Okay Omo I can only give you the gist here.

He is talking about

Child with light skin,
Your skin is so beautiful
Bathed in warm milk.
Young woman with waist as tender
As even an honey bee might envy
Your lips are soft and supple.
O, that I would kiss your lips
My lips would never part from them
And should my lips part from them
I would not wash my face again

Hello my star from the east
Where the day star comes to life.

That should do hope it helps

Thank you, SA Lady! Thank you!! Thank you!!!

Beautiful poem, RSA! I swear you could have snatched the Shulamite from ol' King Solo if you were in Jerusalem in those days.

_{Hope y'all like my remix!}

Politics › Re: Nigeria Donates $200,000 To Uganda For Landslide Victims by MyJoe: 11:05am On Jul 28, 2010

[quote author=Okija_juju link=topic=485198.msg6461476#msg6461476 date=1280267024]Everybodu is here saying that other countries have donated money to Nigeria before for free that wasnt a loan that we had to pay back with interest and I keep asking for someone to tell me one country that has dashed us money and y'all are keeping mute.[/quote]Maybe nobody wants to waste time answering that.

Politics › Re: South Africa Deports 47 Nigerians by MyJoe: 1:01pm On Jul 27, 2010

RSA: Bathong ngwana you mosetlhana!
Wa dikoti marameng!
Wa mmala wa sebilo!
O kare o tlhapa ka maswi!
kgarebe ya letheka la mofu!
Dipounama tsa gago o kare boletswa!
Ga nka di suna nka kgomarela

Dumela Naledi yame ya botlhabatsatsi!

Howdy, RSA
Can you please translate that poem in English? I just want to read it in English.

Politics › Re: Nigeria Seeks End To Middle East Crisis by MyJoe: 12:13pm On Jul 27, 2010

Chongaiman:
^^^^
If I get you right, since talk is cheap we should just keep on saying the right stuff?

No, you don't get me right. Have a nice day.

Politics › Re: Nigeria Donates $200,000 To Uganda For Landslide Victims by MyJoe: 11:59am On Jul 27, 2010

[quote author=Okija_juju link=topic=485198.msg6455978#msg6455978 date=1280219921]We give money to other countries as dash, when we collect from others, na loan with interest. mcheeew! angry

[/quote]No, sir. Nigeria has received aid from richer countries in the past. We have borrowed, like other countries, we have also received aid. But that is not the point. The point here is that a disaster took place. Did you people miss that? Wherever there is a disaster, people rush in with whatever help they can. And I suppose if the money was not given pensioners would be paid, and NEPA will be fixed!

Politics › Re: Nigeria Seeks End To Middle East Crisis by MyJoe: 11:50am On Jul 27, 2010

CGKing:
Trying to feed and extracting straw are two different things. What if you had straw in your own ear and you havent been able to remove it, how would u know how to remove the one in your neighbours ear? However, there are some who have been able to extract straw from their own ear, these ones have tried to extract the straw from the ears of two others in the middle east for years and have failed. Now guy A who hasnt been able to remove his comes with concern in his heart, seeking to help guy B that the experienced hasvent been able to help.

Cant we be rational for once? Did we have to accept the responsibility? Im just asking. We havent done the basics on the local level at home and we want to carry the wight of the world . I just wonder what this honourable calling will do for our nation.

Your argument would be valid if you can show that Mrs Ogwu's involvement in the Middle East is impacting on anything here in anyway. Your argument would be valid if:

- Jonathan has travalled to the Gaza to attend to matters there
- Our VP is shuttling between Cairo and Tel Aviv
- The National Assembly is discussing Middle East instead of Jos
- Resources meant to solve Jos and Niger Delta and NEPA are being diverted to the Middle East

Our UN ambassador's job is take on international peace, not Jos, Niger Delta, NEPA or the price of garri. Ibrahim Gambari has been doing diplomatic shuttles for ages. So did Emeka Anyaoku. People are only talking here because someone opened a thread.

My point is: if what is being discussed at a talk shop called UN is costing us resources, there would be an issue to debate here - not that that would on its own be wrong. _{Next time ask the government to withdraw our ambassador from the UN and spend the money meant for the mission on Jos or something. At least your analogies would then valid} But since we are not losing anything to this particular project, this is a non-issue and one is baffled at the responses in this thread.

Politics › Re: Nigeria Seeks End To Middle East Crisis by MyJoe: 6:28pm On Jul 26, 2010

CGKing:
Person never bele full him wan organise gredge for another man.

But what if there are five of you in the house and one of you is busy cooking and then a neighbour shows up asking you to help extract a straw that got stuck in his ear? Would your not having gredged be a valid reason to turn him down? wink

Politics › Re: Nigeria Seeks End To Middle East Crisis by MyJoe: 6:02pm On Jul 26, 2010

Nigeria is a sovereign state with a functional Foreign Affairs Ministry. The duty of that ministry includes diplomacy. Diplomacy includes resolving problems in other lands. It is not the duty of Nigeria's ambassador at the UN to go to Jos or the Niger Delta to resolve problems - there are ministries in charge of those. The ambassador is doing her work. Added to the fact that peace in the Middle East is a much desire goal because of our common humanity, there is also the issue of global relevance. I am as saddened about the state of Nigeria as most contributors here and believe our governments have relentlessly failed us. But we cannot keep on hold what we can do just because of our failures. Yes, international peace is our responsibility. Let Mrs Ogwu seek peace in the Middle East.

Everyone has problems and should naturally pay the utmost attention to his own problems before attending to others. But you do not resolve all your problems before listening to others. That is how it is in our everyday dealings. That is how it is in international relations. I have read articles written by angry people in the US and other Western nations demanding that their governments stop giving aid to Third World countries like Nigeria and co. The arguments are premised on the point that their countries also have problems - national debts and all.

Foreign Affairs › Re: Xenophobia - South Africa . What Your Opinion by MyJoe: 5:53pm On Jul 21, 2010

RSA:
I think that there is a lot of ignorance on this issue here,You guys are not asking the right questions,maybe you don't really care about finding the main cause to this problems.What if I tell you that the political situation in Zimbabwe is the direct cause.Do you think that there is a developing country that can absorb 7 million people in their country and economy without problems?

We don't have refugee camps in South Africa, people who come from Zimbabwe go straight into the society after crossing the border.The goverment also have no extra plans for this people,it leave them to fend for themself,there fore competing with the poorest for essential services and unskilled jobs.

I personaly I hate it when people make this look like black South Africans generaly hate other blacks from the continent,it is a social problem that need intervention from the international communitiy,UN should be sorting this mess up.And South African goverment should tighten its border and make it difficult for anyone who is not bringing investment or skills that are in shortage in the country to enter the Republic.It is a fact that South Africa is the most succesfull and well runned country in Africa,education,healthcare,houses are free for poor people,including non South Africans.And this is why poor people want to chase 'foreigners' from their communities.

UN,AU and who ever want xenophobic attack to stop must first deal with Mugabe and his goverment.Sort out Zimbabwe and we won't have this problems again.

Right. But it may not end with Zim. This problem predates the Zimbabwe problem. It just got worse since Zimbabwe. It's quite a complex mix.

Christianity Etc › Re: Is Rccg And Pastor Adeboye Obliged To Return Akingbola Looted Offering? by MyJoe: 5:32pm On Jul 21, 2010

Tgirl4real:
Their God is their bellies

Philippians 3:19

Christianity Etc › Re: The Problem With Dreams, Visions And Clairvoyance by MyJoe(op): 3:51pm On Jul 21, 2010

True. Another possibility that may offer some explanations is that people get to see what they are interested in. I guess that is where the "intermediate reality" thing kicks in. For example, it is the atheists, like that Jewish woman, who always talk about seeing God or being on the verge of seeing him, perhaps because that is the first thing that drops into their mind once they find themselves in a spiritual realm. Mr Benedict, who read for an NDE and got one, had a very scientific mind and that was all he saw - galaxies and big bangs and chemistry and all. There is the other guy who obviously read too much of the book of Revelation.

ladej:
brodas and sistas i have learnt a lot here, thanks for sharing. where does 'jazz' fit in all these?

I have asked a somewhat related question. You may want to read this thread and share your views.

Christianity Etc › Re: Oya Mek Una Come Explain by MyJoe: 3:22pm On Jul 21, 2010

xtainroyal:
That's good but not ok. DNA test will do.
does any of the parents come from a white background?

From pictures of the baby I have seen she has a broad nose. But she has white skin and then blond hair, something thought to be exclusive to Caucasians, never mind the Australian Aborigines. This is another classic racial classification conundrum.

Christianity Etc › Re: Oya Mek Una Come Explain by MyJoe: 10:19am On Jul 21, 2010

My wife is true to me. Even if she hadn't been, the baby still wouldn't look like that.

I have a lot of interest in racial classification. It's amazing what amount of confusion there is about it all. This is another huge score for those anthropologists who dismiss the accepted forms of racial classification. Blonde? This case is new.

Reminds me of that white couple that gave birth to a black kid back in the ol' days of Apartheid and the Apartheid government began laying square shaped eggs trying to resolve the "problem". Later passed a law declaring that "every child born of two white parents is white", but that did not stop the girl undergoing so much suffering from family, society and government. I wonder what would have happened if Nmachi had happen back in Soweto in those days. Maybe they would have passed a law declaring the kid black? Or, perhaps much more likely, a law declaring that "every white kid purportedly born of two black parents was stolen from a white maternity ward."

Christianity Etc › Re: How Noah Carried 2 Whales? by MyJoe: 6:06pm On Jul 20, 2010

myside: lets be real here, is there any way noah cud have gatherd all d birds, insects, mammals, reptiles, sea creatures, virus, bacteria, shrubs, fruits, trees etc all in one ark for 40 days, they doodled, peed, farted, slept, ate, played inside one ark. its all in your head!

Christianity Etc › Re: What's The True Religion? by MyJoe: 4:06pm On Jul 20, 2010

nuclearboy:
The point is, what do we understand from Jesus' Sojourn on Earth? He said He was the way to the Father and none come but by through Him. Did that then mean mouthing words or becoming like Him?

Excellent!

nuclearboy: Do you really believe God would watch Hitler kill Millions and then, just before he commited suicide, ask for forgiveness and say "Jesus is Lord" then welcome him into heaven with open arms, with Angels dancing and rejoicing?

My pastor friend (G.O. rank) positively asserts that is what would happen. But it's good to meet Christians who don't that share that ludicrous view.

nuclearboy: Its a development thing - we move from stage to stage. Whist some go backward, some proceed, but the reality is that Christ embodied ALL that is required - He showed us the narrow way of true love. That is why I accepted Christ - He is the truth.

I think Jesus Christ set a good example for us to follow. That is why I do not hesitate to tell people I am a follower of Jesus, though not a member of the Christian religion. And it's good to come to an understanding of your real views on this matter.

Christianity Etc › Re: What's The True Religion? by MyJoe: 3:38pm On Jul 20, 2010

I recall the post where you pointed Tudor to such. But I was still surprised to see you put it so plainly as you do here - someone new to the forum would think that faith in the tenets of a religion, creed, "the totality of God's Word, the Bible", and such things don't really matter to you. That is, until I saw that post, I would have sworn you believe that Number one is: Believe in Jesus and Biblical Christianity; Number two: love your neighbour. But reading that post would lead someone to believe you share my view that Number one is: Love your neighbour. Any other thing, though possibly helpful, is not on its own ESSENTIAL.

It's the amount of weight we place on things that I thought the difference was.

Christianity Etc › Re: What's The True Religion? by MyJoe: 2:55pm On Jul 20, 2010

lagerwhenindoubt:
Let us assume (hypothetically speaking) that there is actually a GOD, a real-life Super-Cosmic entity of phenomenal ethereal proportions, He is Purposeful and Purposeless, he is Chaos and Order, Matter and Anti-matter, Right and Wrong, Beginning and End, Alpla and Omega. In his infinite wisdom created man in his own image (a point a lot of Christians/Muslims fail to appreciate), do you not think that his very cosmic essence and ethereal qualities exists in our human bodies to the point that we possess the exact power-cosmic that God is imbued with? How did the Bible prophets transverse great inter-dimensional distances regardless of their material states to seek audience with GOD.

The existence of Black-Holes in the Universe is a solid scientific fact but it is not founded on the existence or actual sighting of a Black-Hole itself, rather it is detected based on its obviously powerful effect on other celestial bodies close to its Event-Horizon or in its vicinity.

Please lecture me, how has the existence of this All-Everything GOD affected his surrounding creations to the point that you can say when he moves, the earth spins or when he sleeps, people die and when he smiles, babies are born, there is no latent or potent effect of GOD's existence in this dimension or any dimension since he is conveniently mysterious by nature and unfathomable by character. However as strange as it seems. I can see SATAN's powerful and obviously non-transitory effect on this dimension and it is logically arguable to say SATAN exists because though we cannot see him, we see the effects of his existence. Since the glory-days of GOD in the mythical Paradise of Eden, he seems to have just vanished into cosmic nothingness at the presence of SATAN's glorious paradigm-shaking events from time-immemorial to this present day. so i ask you again, does GOD exists? in this dimension or the next

I do not wish to allocate much time to respond to the above. You seem to have drawn your conclusions, anyway. But I will like to say that nobody can "prove" to you, through lecturing or any other means, the existence of God. If you are a little less cynical and a little more conscious of your non-material needs, you may find. Anyway, you will find.

Deep Sight:
Do my eyes deceive me? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

We emus liburnica!

I, too, was taken aback when I saw that post. Strange when it's strange to find anyone simply stating a truth which is inscribed in everyone's heart.

Christianity Etc › Re: What's The True Religion? by MyJoe: 1:43pm On Jul 20, 2010

mazaje:
I will like you to define God in your own terms so that I know exactly what I am talking about? Are you talking about the creator of the universe(as in deist God concept) or the Jewish, Christian, Arab, Hindu, Buddhist etc concept?. . . .

If by God you mean the creator of the universe,then I can accept that possibility since I don't know who or what was responsible for the universe, Do you believe in a God that interacts with humans? If the said God exist in another dimension, how then can he still exist amongst humans?. . . .As for the experiences, what kind of experiences are they?. . . .

I don't believe God interacts with humans, although it is possible people get vibrations from the spiritual word. I tend to see the universe as running like a computer programme. You press this key and something happens. That may spark off something which will cause another to fall into or out of place. The programmer does not need to stand there arms akimbo.

From the choleric warlord of the Old Testament to the Personal Assistant parroted by many Christians, I don't find the concept of God produced by most of the religions I have studied plausible. I see God as the reality that defies definition.

God can exist in another dimension and exist among humans if he is indeed the Creator. Remember he spawned the universe. People in higher dimensions can "see" people in lower dimensions, whereas the reverse would be generally impossible.

Well, there are experiences and you have heard them before, I believe. Mazaje sees his elderly great aunt living in Kaura Namoda while coming out of the Konstan Möljä in Helsinki. A few minutes later he receives a phone call that she died. I once met a man who claims he can recall seven past lives. What would you say mazaje if you met him and the stories he tells you checks, after you have verified he had no way knowing of the events he talked about? I don't do these stories much, myself, so I can't really write much along that line right now.

Christianity Etc › Re: What's The True Religion? by MyJoe: 1:08pm On Jul 20, 2010

You are right, it's largely unobjective. I can tell you what convinces me as to the existence of God, but it's all subjective. Does it not make complete sense to you that if there is God he would be in another dimension, which is impossible to access in your present material state? I realise you don't believe in the existence of the non-material. So how do you deal with stories related by others as to their experiences? All in your head, I guess. I, too, think a lot of things are in people's head. But what about stories that have been objectively verified?

Christianity Etc › Re: What's The True Religion? by MyJoe: 11:41am On Jul 20, 2010

mazaje:
True, what I just can't understand is why people are yet to grab that this religion thingy is all a man made sham? People keep referring to it as "truth" or "the right way". The question is what truth and right way to where? Its all a man made sham because there are many different and contradictory religious beliefs and even differing perspectives on what God is or wants within denominations of the same religion? Just as you said humans are conscious beings, once the ancient people began asking themselves where they came from and where the mountains and rain came from, religion and deities were born. . . .

Howdy mazaje.
But don't you think these are legitimate questions? Since you don't know where the mountains and rain came from, does it make any sense to claim to believe there is no God?

Food › Re: Egusi Soup Vs Obgono Soup by MyJoe: 5:34pm On Jul 19, 2010

Let’s help ogbono catch up. Must be the photocopy versions being sold at restaurants that are confusing people. Here’s a word or two I can recall about traditional ogbono, the king of soups.

To derive maximum enjoyment from the content of a simmering bowl of ogbono soup, two conditions are required: (1) the ogbono must be well prepared (of course), (2) it must be fresh.

What does it take to prepare good ogbono? Well there are technicalities restaurant people won't know about in 1000 years. But before we get into that, let’s examine the ogbono kernels. There are three common kinds of ogbono, aka “bush mango”. The first one is the cultivated kind with sweet edible pulp surrounding the kernel. The second kind is the cultivated kind with inedible pulp surrounding the kernel - the pulp has a very bitter taste and is not usually eaten. The third kind is the wild species. It is made into soup in some places but from my interactions when I lived in Edo State, no Edo woman will knowing touch it with a pole.

No 1 is noted for its drawness. But no 2 has a far superior flavor, tastes better and is treated with far more respect among Esan women. In fact, no. 1 is sometimes made the butt of jokes. But there are people who prefer it. The ogbono kernels must be dryed. Fresh kernels can make good soup but they don’t turn out as good as dryed ones.

I will not list the ingredients here, since people have different tastes. But dry fish is a must. In fact, fish is generally superior to meat when preparing ogbono. Stock fish is wonderful. Avoid chicken – it contains some kind of oil that affects the "heaviness" of the soup. Whatever you do, don’t use onions on ogbono! Be careful to avoid making lumps. And don’t spoil it with too much salt. Leaves are not necessary to create good ogbono soup, but they may be added if desired. Anything from pumpkin to bitter leaves will do. Small is better.

When preparing ogbono, use a clay pot and a calabash ladle, if available. The clay pot gives it special flavor, especially if you know that secret of preparing good ogbono – burning. Allowing the ogbono to burn gives it that extra something. The amount of heat is also very important. Ogbono cooked with inadequate or poorly distributed heat will not turn out well. Thus ogbono prepared with a standard gas cooker will turn out better than that prepared with a kerosene stove, particularly a bad stove. The heat needs not be too much, but it must be adequate and evenly distributed. With the right ingredients and prepared under these circumstances, when ogbono soup is being served, the hosts of heaven stop to look it, smell it and taste it! That is the truth.

Ogbono is best eaten with pounded yam. It must be fresh if you hope to get maximum enjoyment from it. Ogbono prepared in the morning and eaten in the afternoon, for me, is not the real thing.

Food › Re: Egusi Soup Vs Obgono Soup by MyJoe: 4:46pm On Jul 19, 2010

maedan:
We-ell, I have never tried okra soup and rice, that's one adventure I don't think I'll go on!! But because I like ogb soup , and I like rice, I can enjoy the combination. This does not mean I will eat ogbono and bread or ogbono and spaghetti o. God forbid !!!!

[i]Ogbono [/i]and rice! Now, that's an adventure.

Christianity Etc › Re: The Problem With Dreams, Visions And Clairvoyance by MyJoe(op): 12:40pm On Jul 19, 2010

[quote author=Mad_Max link=topic=436863.msg6397120#msg6397120 date=1279296062]
Mellen Benedict
This guy has a non-Christian background. He was dying of terminal cancer, was aware of NDEs and asked that his dead body be left undisturbed for some time after death. When he died of the cancer his wishes were respected. He was dead for almost 2 hours. When he returned the cancer was cured. His NDE is fascinating.
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/reincarnation04.html[/quote]Interesting. Fascinating. A very intelligent mind going through an extraordinary spiritual experience. He confirms(?) a few things I have always felt sure of. But his story is fantastic on several levels. First and foremost, it’s going to be very hard for my head to process the biggest assertion of the story, that we are God, having the seen the evil human beings are capable of. But I guess that’s just his interpretation of what he saw. No, Mr. Benedict, we are not God at all! God is out there. I also find his treatment of the subject of evil quite inadequate. In fact, it is possible to argue that Mr Benedict dismisses evil by some of his assertions. I agree with him that man is inherently good at his core, but some of us sink real low! That’s a fact. It’s also strange to read we exist from forever to forever. Neither am I as optimistic as him on the ecological system. But, then, what do I know?

[quote author=Mad_Max]
George Rodonaia
This guy was dead for three days after a car accident and was in the morgue. He was an atheist at the time. He came back when they were cutting into him during an autopsy. If he'd been Moslem, no coming back. He'd have been buried. Needless to say, that was the end of his atheism.
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/evidence10.html[/quote]I am yet to read a better story that this excellent testimony to the infinite, indefinable nature of God. Also reminds us, in case we failed to realise, that NDEs are finite and subjective. That is, at NDEs and other mystical experiences, you get only glimpses, not anything close to the whole. Probably explains all the seeming confusion. He concludes wonderfully by admonishing us to be patient with all that is unresolved. Formulate your questions and find joy in living with them! Can you beat that? For, you see, as long you love – love humans, love nature, love animals – nothing else really matters. What an excellent man, Rodonaia!

[quote author=Mad_Max]Group NDE
Here are two examples of when a group of people die or almost die together and share an NDE.
http://www.near-death.com/group.html[/quote]Joined by lightening! The second experience is spectacular and explains a lot. The three of them seeing the same thing with the same eyes but at the same time seeing it as different things!

[quote author=Mad_Max]Ranelle Wallace
This is a Christian NDE. The first I've posted. The private plane she was in crashed.
http://www.near-death.com/wallace.html[/quote]Another great story. Full of useful lessons for everyone.

I have explored the site and read many interesting stories and some questions posed by skeptics. Some of these stories are so compelling I think the least one can do is have an open mind about them. I would actually like to read Nigerian experiences. Perhaps I will one day get lucky and even hear from someone I know!

Christianity Etc › Re: Is It True About Octopus by MyJoe: 1:46pm On Jul 16, 2010

Deep Sight:
The Oracle of the Octopus was a complete hoax designed to attract attention and raise funds for the owners and related businesses.

A selection of pundits analysed each game and determined what team was more likely to win. Once that determination was reached, certain chemicals were placed on the desired box to lure the octopus that way when placed. The clueless animal was tricked just as surely as we all have been.

It is instructive that all Paul's predictions were fairly obvious easy guesses which did not disappoint. Spain has obviously been the best in the world for more than 2 years now: and no octopus is required to discern this fact.

Pundits? That is a tad far-fetched. Easy guesses? I won't have thought so with the Spain-Germany match, in fact, with any match.

Deep Sight: Most instructive however, is the announcement of Paul's retirement immediately after the world cup.

Why? ? ?

Octopuses live two years on average. Paul has lived four, so he has probably got very little time left to live. Retiring him after such a spectacular outing was the sensible thing to do.

[quote author=Tudór link=topic=479411.msg6392587#msg6392587 date=1279224208]Only a fool will believe the octopus has magical powers. . .it was just lucky.[/quote]Spot on.

Christianity Etc › Re: Usual Suspects(nuclearboy,deepsight,noetic,madmax And Co.) On Suffering. by MyJoe: 11:47am On Jul 16, 2010

noetic16:
The bible described their sin as "Having left their abode" . . , implying that they simply disobeyed the commandments of God by leaving their heavenly abode. It is not a sin to pro-create, though its a sin to lust and fornicate.

That said . . .I believe I have already established basis to believe that angels and heavenly beings do have free will . . , else why would the scriptures state that we shall judge the angels?

I do not understand the point made in that^^^ post. But point I was making, in response to your post, is that the Genesis account does not give us ground to be sanguine that when we assume “incorruptibility” in heaven we would be imbued with immunity which will give us relief from temptation, particularly if “temptation” stands on two legs, in the form of a well-endowed nubile female with gravity defying jugs.

Christianity Etc › Re: The Problem With Dreams, Visions And Clairvoyance by MyJoe(op): 11:44am On Jul 16, 2010

[quote author=Mad_Max link=topic=436863.msg6359626#msg6359626 date=1278708282]
Beverly Brodsky (Jew, turned atheist after pondering holocaust)
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/judaism02.html
[/quote]This one struck me the most. Reading from someone with a non-Christian background and then the depth of what she claims she saw were something.

[quote author=Mad_Max]
Tom Sawyer
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/reincarnation03.html
[/quote]This story is rich. While I have strong reservations about a few assertions, I find it compelling.

[quote author=Mad_Max]
Ned Dogherty (this guy either experienced a created intermediate, or he was being deceived.)
http://www.near-death.com/dougherty.html

Louis Famoso (obvious intermediate self-generatd world)
http://www.near-death.com/forum/nde/000/05.html
[/quote]This one is intriguing. It looks rather like the Revelation of John in many respects. In fact, it’s the Revelation of John couched in different words and given a certain kind of interpretation. At a point it felt like I was reading the four horsemen of the apocalypse once again. Maybe he read too much Revelation or he was actually shown something or something else I can’t think of. For one reason, I am particularly interested in his background. Self-generated? Likely. Anyway, I don’t have a clue what those visions he saw mean and I am generally as skeptical about his experience as the others.

[quote author=Mad_Max]
Don Brubaker (another intermediate for contrast. He sees Jesus as a human being with a handsome face.)
http://www.near-death.com/forum/nde/000/92.html
[/quote]Yeah. We can’t set great store by this one.

Christianity Etc › Re: Images From The Christian Inquisition by MyJoe: 5:53pm On Jul 14, 2010

OLAADEGBU:
@Mad_Max,
A lot of religious folks (including atheists) would not like to hear these bitter facts, but it has to be told.

Do you now agree as to why we should be careful in branding anything in its entirety - be it the Bible, atheists, religion, or anything at all - as infallibly good or irredeemably bad?

Here are the issues:

[quote author=Mad_Max link=topic=478028.msg6385436#msg6385436 date=1279124595]Gangster popes? You're too kind. Some of them were psychopaths. They went batshit with too much power. One Pope made it official doctrine that Popes were 'infallible' and cannot be wrong. Believe it or not, there are Christians that cannot connect the 'destroy the flesh to save the spirit' doctrine in Corinthians to the actions of those who later carried it out. In 2010, thousands of years after the bible was written, they themselves are living out their lives based on faith in the 'infallibility' and 'divinity' of the bible. Yet they find it hard to fathom that Christians in earlier eras also believed that the bible (and popes and priests) was 'infallible' and its formulas 'divine', and that they used verses in the bible to destroy other people. Not out of wickedness, but out of sincere belief they were doing good, saving the victims' souls. One person recently said that to 'hand over the person to Satan for the destruction of the flesh' simply meant to destroy the sinful human nature. Yet the person failed to explain the process by which a sinful human nature is handed over to Satan for destruction and why he himself, as a Christian, has not applied this mysterious process to destroy his own sinful nature. Others say it is 'ostracism'. But the verse didn't say 'drive the sinner out from among you'. It said 'hand him over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh so his spirit may be saved on the Last Day'. It's perfectly clear, and many who believed the verse 'divinely inspired' did exactly as it said long after the writer of that verse was dead, sincerely wanting to save the souls of 'sinners' and 'heretics'.

Blind, unreasoning faith is one of the reasons why the horror persisted for so long until people dropped their ignorance, saw the light and put a stop to it. It has no foundation in the teachings of Christ and is not Christian doctrine except to those who chose that it be so. It was horribly abused by a powerful religious caste for its own purposes. It was also heartbreakingly applied by others out of genuine belief. Some popes and priests did evil in antiquity, some popes and priests did not. Some priests protested the evil they saw and many of them died for it. The majority of the body of Christians took no part in these things but were themselves the victims. When our people were throwing twin babies alive into forests because they thought twin babies were an evil omen, it was a Christian that came to stop it. It's some of the same Christians that died by the thousands fighting for the freedom of the slaves some of our ancestors sold. No group of people is perfect and we're all ruled by self-interest. But ignoring all the good that many ordinary Christians have done and trumpeting ancient history to deride the present is ridiculous and a little irresponsible. There are just some very bad people, and for them, any excuse will do to commit atrocities if they ever have power. If the Bible or Quoran is not there, they'd find something else. Political ideology for instance, or the sort of racism and tribalism that leads to purges and genocides.[/quote]

Christianity Etc › Re: Usual Suspects(nuclearboy,deepsight,noetic,madmax And Co.) On Suffering. by MyJoe: 3:56pm On Jul 14, 2010

noetic16:
OF course there will be . . .but its quite different there. As we would have put off the corruptible and put on the incorruptible . . .there will be no basis for lustful desires of the flesh.

Recall the angels in Genesis who could not keep their flies zipped after peeping at some helele babes bathing in the river? Now, they won't agree with you!

Christianity Etc › Re: Images From The Christian Inquisition by MyJoe: 2:36pm On Jul 14, 2010

The inquisitions (I think historians who say "The Inquisition" have the Spanish one in mind) are a part of the history of Christianity and Christians admit that much. I should be mentioned for that purpose, but certainly not the purpose to which OP seeks to put it. That said, this is untrue:

Bastage:
The inquisitions were[b]not[/b] about religion.

There were gangster popes and bishops who were into politics and economics. But there were also Christian leaders who genuinely believed they were serving God - destroying the flesh to save the soul. There were Bible verses to back that up. To them, it was like correcting your child. Nor was it a wholly Catholic thing. Even John Calvin, the Protestant reformer, tortured people under the belief he was saving them. These facts should be respected.

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