₦airaland Forum

Yefet:
I am not saying every pilot is a born again Christian but some are and I want you to understand if you are in a plane and your pilot is part of the Bride of Christ that means they will be Rapturing so they will vanish in a twinkle of an eye.  Which means that plane is going to crash, whiles at the mean time you don’t even know that your pilot has vanished (Rapture) and you and probably the rest of the people on board will not even have seconds to even repent and accept Jesus or rededicate your lives to the Him.  Planes are going to be dropping from the sky all over the over the world causing great chaos all over. 

During the Rapture people are going to be vanishing in a twinkle of an eye all over the world.    It will be such a great time for the people Rapturing but a disastrous time for those who will be left behind.  Just imagine you are in a public transportation, in a train, a ship (cruise, etc.), boats etc. the operators from some of those transports might and will Rapture so who is going to be operating them when they operators vanish in a winkle of an eye because they are part of the Bride of Christ.  It might even take some minutes before anyone realizes they are gone and all of us know all it takes is a second for an accident to happen.  Sometimes they can be so deadly too. 

When I am driving my car I love seeing those stickers people have on their cars that says “If you are behind me when the Rapture happens know that this vehicle will not be operated.”  They are trying to tell you in case of the Rapture they will be Rapturing so their vehicle might hit your vehicle and you might die on the spot and etc.

These airlines better start recruiting Moslems and atheists! Personally, I will henceforth find out the pilot's religion before booking flights or taking public taking buses.

Joagbaje:
Trials are our opportunities to prove our love for God. It is a suffering of joy. not of sorrow.

What about "trials" experienced by non-Christians? I sincerely want to know what you think of those.

Joagbaje: Ac 5:41
And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.

Jas 1:2
¶ My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;

when persecutions rise up against a christian, its is a proof that you are making an impact. Persecution and attacks comes in different forms : verbally or physically.

Lu 6:26
Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! ,

A Christian may experience persecution because:
-  People don't like his religious activities and want to stop him
-  He broke the law like anyone, for example, he stole a goat
-  Wicked people who think evil all the time decide to fight him, either because of his ethnicity, family or something similar.

A human rights activist who is an Ogun devotee may suffer persecution because:
-  The dictator du jour don't don't like his peaceful protest activities and want to stop him
-  He broke the law like anyone, for example, he stole a goat
-  Wicked people who think evil all the time decide to fight him, either because of his ethnicity, family or something similar.

Given the above, how true is your submission above?

Joagbaje: It is christians that are not making any impact the devil leaves alone because hes got them already.

Are we to take it that those Christians who go through life, just like some non-Christians, with relative ease - started primary school at five or six, entered university at eighteen, graduated at 23, got a job with Mobil at 24, married at 28, got two kids, travels the world, like his food and generally enjoys life. No major health palavar, no family hassles, no robbery attack. Retires at 70 to a mansion in his country home. Lives happily for the remainder of his days - do so because the devil is happy with them for being on his side already?

[quote author=Mad_Max link=topic=436863.msg6530815#msg6530815 date=1281193141][color=#000099]Hmmm. Until your own thinking processes kicked in. Lucky you. That doesn't happen for everbody. A few don't think what they believe should make sense to their brain. They think whatever they believe should have 'mystery' and parts that can't be 'explained', or else it doesn't feel like religion. Ironically, all religions are man-made. There isn't a single one God invented. So you have the things men have made amd when you get to the parts that makes no sense, like three Gods in one in Christianity, you say it's a 'mystery'. Sometimes they make a break for freedom and all, but their own minds short-circuits the process because the indoctrination is too deep. They may try but conditioning merely returns them to their original religious positions. It's safer. They simply return to their irrational beliefs and rationalize later.[/quote]Beautifully summarised.

[quote author=m_nwankwo link=topic=436863.msg6545578#msg6545578 date=1281429081]Thus you do not love because you want to go to heaven or because you do not want to go to hell but you love because your spirit is a reflection of the love of God.[/quote]I can't thank you enough for this.

Image123:
^That's simple Bible for you, not comedy hour. You have the right to go to hell fire if you despise the narrow way.

Haba, Image! Take it easy on hellfire, naa!

[quote author=Okija_juju link=topic=494090.msg6545636#msg6545636 date=1281429641]That mean Kumuyi is allowed to marry any sister from Deeper life.

These churches are jokes.[/quote]What problem would you have with that?

nuclearboy: All "Deists" keep saying God can do anything but most are liars who mouth the words but do not believe what they say. Elementary thought brings one question to mind. Vescucci, does God have the right to decide (out of love and for your sake) to be a small beautiful bird whose chirps make you smile one day when you are feeling low? Or a tiny chipmunk who's gymnastics brightens your day? Or is He restricted to being a "terrible", "overbearing" God whose voice kills? Pray, who would be the party restricting Him? If the first 2 are possible, would it mean that any hunter that shoots and hits the bird/chipmunk has killed God? Would you then not realise that basically God is to be found in all of creation since we model His existence albeit in limited forms?

I would like to learn more about highlighted, nuclearboy. Can you please expound on it a little?

Deep Sight:
Enigma - do you seriously assert to me that the Father as conveyed throughout the OT is not obviously, emphatically and undeniably sentient? ? ?

How does a non-sentient being talk, wage war, demand worship, feel jealousy, engage in debates. . .Are you serious on this point?

Nope

noetic16:
why are u angry? oight, I withdraw my statement . . . . cos like u rightly stated u presented no argument, just the relevant verses. perhaps I am guilty of accurately deciphering your arguments without u stating them.

Nah, I’m not angry. Just flabberwhelmed when I saw our post.

noetic16: and whats your take on melchisedec? who is He? and how do u relate His title as the King of peace to Jesus as the prince of peace?

I believe the writer(s) of the book of Genesis were talking about a man. A king who also doubled as a priest, one ordained for priesthood by God. Reading anything else into it is just pure speculation, in my opinion. When Paul said he had neither beginning nor end, he could not have been speaking literally about a man who was born by a man and woman like every other. It is a fact the names of Melchizedec’s father and mother, as well as children, are not mentioned in the Bible. Thus we know neither his ancestry nor posterity. His birth and death are also not recorded. That made the man, Melchizedec, King of Peace and Righteousness, the perfect specimen for Paul to use as a typification of Jesus, believed by Christians to be the greatest king and priest of all.

noetic16: erm. . .who is "we"? God consists of three persons and this is illustrated all through the scriptures.

It isn't illustrated all through the scriptures.

noetic16: Jesus also said that He and the father will dwell in whosoever believes/loves Him (John 14:23) does that make Jesus  a mere force? 

If u cannot make sense of my primordial response to you. . .then I cant help further. The point is that Christ also functions as a force when He chooses to, does that stop him from being a person?

I already acknowledged this. But you see, there is a difference in references to Jesus and the Holy Spirit. The Father and Jesus can dwell in your heart. But with the Holy Spirit, what do we see? It does not dwell in your heart. It fills your heart, or overshadows you. Thus, while the Son can dwell in your heart, he cannot fill you. Only the Holy Spirit fills people. You pray for the Holy Spirit and it is given to you. You don't pray for the son and he is given to you. When you pray to the Father he draws you to the son in his grace. Furthermore, the Holy Spirit can be distributed, the son can't. See? 

Enigma:
We may also ask: is "God" the Father a personal sentient being? If we can show that "God" the Father is either not personal or sentient, then not only the idea of the Trinity is dead then the "Father" too cannot be "God"; we might as well say with Nietszche that God is dead.

We are looking at things from biblical perspectives in this thread. We can show from the Bible that the Father is personal. But that won't be necessary, of course, since you probably know lots more about it than I do.

nuclearboy:
@DeepSight:

You NEVER were a Christian - what you were was a "joagbaje" or "church-goer" or "tradition-follower".

I am surprised noetic16 says my "argument" is "flawed" even though I have not made any argument at all. You asked for verses which "suggest" what is contained in Deep Sight's position in op, and I provided them. Instead of reading the verses for what they say you commence elaborate gymnastics, writing lines that neither seriously address the verses nor add up at all, even talking about Melschisedec! If you ask five Christians their opinion on who Melchisedec is you will get five opposing opinions. That is what you are using to back up your position on the Holy Spirit. Haba noetic16!

And the way you use the word "known" always leaves me overgasted. Noetic16's opinion on anything = "the known". His understanding of Melchisedec = the known "ontology" of melchisedec. Hiya!   "We" don't "know" that God consists of three persons!

What nuclearboy says about the Holy Spirit being capable of filling people while remaining a person is logical possible. But the Bible goes beyond that. We see the Holy Spirit being "received" into someone, "overshadowing" a woman, etc. Acts 10:38 hardly leaves room for doubt: anointing with Holy Spirit and power. Can the Father anoint someone with The Son and power? No, because the Son is a person. On the other hand, the verses personifying the Holy Spirit do not on their own prove anything since wisdom, sin, death and grace are personified in the Bible. And I have read Bible scholars who suggest that John's personification of the Holy Spirit was merely in conformity with grammatical rules.

Personally, I have zero expertise on the holy spirit. But I am fairly familiar with the Bible and I know its position weigh more in the direction of the Holy Spirit being God's active force than being a person. We also know  from the writings of Justin Martyr, Hyppolytus and the others that the early church believed  the Holy Spirit to be God's active force. The personal Holy Spirit became official and everyone switched over when the Trinity was invented at a council meeting.

There are verses which clearly describe the holy spirit as an inanimate something, a thing, a force. Trinitarians gloss over them. There are verses, too, which appear to ascribe personality to the Holy Spirit. Unitarian Christians, of course, have ways of explaining these away. And so the divide goes on . . . 

Like it says in Ps 115:8, it is those who make bad things that end up in those states.

I don’t really have a belief “system”. The D label seems close enough to approximate my position, hence I am not averse to using it. My position accords with my personal observation or experience. It also makes the most sense to me.

I had a Christian upbringing like most on this forum. But after sometime your own thinking processes kick in and you start asking questions. Once you ask that question, you find a gaping hole or two. And then you decide to reconsider everything. You go back to agnostic position and start from there. That was it.

There isn't "a holy book" for me. I read the sacred books, though. They are useful.

RWilliams:
MyJoe, my apologies, I should not have said what I did about your stance on some things being laughable, I guess whatever they are, history has shown that ones beliefs are something that can bring out the best and also the worst in any of us.

No hard feelings.

RWilliams: The following from your last post:
It appears you, sir, are incapable of comprehending why your church’s alliance with the UN generated so much furore, so I decided to lay it for you as I have above. You see, nobody cares who signs up with the UN. But the Watchtower? Declaring fast and drinking water in hiding is universally frowned upon. And rightly so. So what is laughable, sir, is seeing an adult endowed by God with the gift of reasoning swallowing weak lies and mumbo jumbo without asking questions.

Since you came back with a response I would have expected you to address the important issues I raised like your claim to being the one true religion in the entire world in the light of love, preaching and the other matters; your doctrines which change with phantasmagoric constancy; prophecy; the lie that Christendom’s waters are drying up; the non-disclosure of history; and the other sundry matters raised. After all, those issues bother on the “truth” which you are trying to spread here. But no, you had to dig up that hurriedly cobbled together paragraph that caused me considerable laughter when I first read it six years ago. Anyway, let’s address the “response”, a very weak attempt to explain away a horrendous mistake that cost your organisation hundreds of thousands in membership.[/i]I hope to respond to this in time, however I have a small business to run and a family to look after, so just do not have the time to make an in depth response,  I will ASAP.

Ok.

RWilliams: In brief, though, I have been a JW most of my life, but did spend a long time questioning and, yes, doubting not just their teachings but even the bible itself,

I am interested in this, please. If you are, I will like to discuss the Bible with you to find out what convinces you about it. We can do so in this thread or I can open another.

RWilliams: I believe we all have to do that at some stage of our life. I believe that any side of an argument can, even if wrong, can be well supported by someone well worded.

This is true, but facts, verifiable facts, have a distinct colour.

RWilliams: I feel the bible is deeper than any human will ever totally fathom,

Have you considered the possibility that it is in the mind. I mean, if you raise a kid on the Quran he would say exactly the same. Now, if you have read the Quran you will agree with me it doesn’t add up at all.

RWilliams: and it even alludes to the fact that we will never truly understand the workings of the creator.

Yes, nobody can fully understand the workings of the Creator. That is one of my main problems with organized religion. They know it all. And on what basis do they claim this knowledge? A book!

RWilliams: Jesus himself foretold that after he left this earth, the true teaching would not be held fast to. Jehovah’s witnesses I believe are doing their best by in depth analysis of the bible to align themselves with the way of life Jesus Christ purported.

I believe that the founder of your church was sincere. I also believe a good number of the men – not all! – who inherited his authority and came to be known as the Governing Body were/are also sincere. Misguided, yes, but sincere.

RWilliams: Any changes they make are because they come to a deeper understanding of something, and rather than dogmatically stick to their guns, they move forward.

I believe I have sufficiently addressed the huge problems I have with the changes in earlier posts. You see, Mr Williams, if you write down all the things I said in the past and begin to compare them, I will probably hide my face. (That is how it is with humans, because of our limited knowledge.) But, then, I don’t go around telling people I am the only channel uses to communicate with mankind at this time! I have never claimed to be the prophet God has raised to gently lead the world to him. You see why I hold the leadership of your church to a higher standard than myself?

Another problem is that the leadership of your church sees nothing wrong at all in changing doctrines on issues to do with life and death – like blood transfusion. Now, you can take blood parts. How many died from not taking them in the past? Today blood parts are “scripturally” okay. Tomorrow they are not. The day after, they are. The following day they are not. You call that deeper understanding, Mr. Williams? And all these changes are made at the time you tell us is crucial, being the last days.

I personally do not see how anyone can review WT changes without coming to the ineluctable conclusion that the Watchtower Society are just guessing things like everyone else. They have no spiritual insights at all. They claim to be spirit-guided but not inspired. Can you make any sense of that? No, really, can you?

RWilliams: Yes, sometimes they have got carried away, and read more into something than they should have, however, they are imperfect humans and we can all tend to do that. Even if it is god’s organisation on earth, it is still made up of imperfect humans, even the apostles jumped to wrong conclusions at times and they were handpicked by Jesus himself.

The above is true, but it doesn’t tell the whole story. The prophets, according to the Bible, heard from God correctly. Abraham, Moses, Ezekiel, Daniel, John and the others, did not change their words every other day. And I don’t expect you to agree here that your church leaders have not been entirely honest, a fact I have demonstrated. Now that’s a different matter from getting carried away.

RWilliams: I have looked deeply into the questionings behind 1914, 607, 1925, 1975 etc, and basically it comes down to individuals all too eager for something to happen,

This is true. (Between you and me, Franz should never have held any major post in that church, much less membership or the church’s ruling council and then the church’s presidency. He was much too influenced by Second Adventism [the originators of 1914] to think properly for one second of his adult life. Anyway, it was Russell himself [also a Second Adventist at heart] who started the date setting business. But I think your current leaders have learnt the lesson about trying to force the hand of God. They have since told us that “this generation” no longer refers to people born or who were alive at any certain time, but those who heard God’s message and refused to heed it. Meanwhile they quote those they have long dismissed as “Christendom’s scholars” while making these changes.)

RWilliams: (Mind you 1914 cannot be ignored as a turning point, and too much of a co-incidence that the first sign of his presence Jesus gave was beyond missing in that year).

There is a possibility, of course, that you know something I don’t here. Otherwise, 1914 can and should be ignored as a turning point. I  know that is hard to even contemplate when you have spent a very long time hearing 1914-this, 1914-that. But there is no biblical basis to believe 1914 was significant or that Jesus started ruling in heaven that year. None has been shown to me. There is none. When you were reading up on 1914, did you by any chance come across the fact that Jerusalem was destroyed by Babylon and the Davidic kingship ended in 587/586BC and not 607 as taught by the Watchtower? If no, go into a library and do some research, for once. If you are in London, the British Library at Euston Road would be an excellent place. But of course you can find materials anywhere once you know what you are looking for. I have a lot of data on this 1914 business I can email to you if you wish. Maybe when you are done with your research you and I can discuss why a leadership that wants us to rate it highly on sincerity knowingly continues to use the 607 date in its publications. And maybe on your own you will see clearly the reason: once 607BC is gone, 1914 crashes. Once that happens, no 1918 and 1919. Without 1918 and 1919, there is no authority for the Governing Body to wield, and hence, no Jehovah’s Witnesses!

RWilliams: But,  They are preaching the good news of god’s kingdom “ON EARTH AS IN HEAVEN” ,  no one can say that one of their relatives was killed in war by a Jehovah’s Witness, there is peace among all races amongst Jehovah’s Witnesses. All glory is given to god, you will never see an author on their literature, no one is getting rich from it, and no one is given expensive garb or fanciful titles. There is   no pompousness or ceremoniousness about their worship, go to a meeting, and you will find friendly people learning how god wants them to live. Go to a large assembly, there is not many places where you can see tens of thousands of  people and there is no need for security, no litter,  you can leave your camera on your seat for an hour and know it will still be there, you won’t hear anyone angry, or swearing, you will get a feeling of a peaceable people, doing their best to live by the standards set in the bible.

The above is largely true. But honest and peaceful people are not exclusive to the JW. And personal items do disappear occasionally from seats at Kingdom Halls and conventions. But no one can deny that in JW messages, there is a lot of emphasis on morality and peaceful neighbourliness, something many church leaders can’t bother to teach their flock these days. Still, I must tell you that a conversation with a typical Witness where I live may not reflect the image you are portraying. Hypocrisy is an going problem in society and religion and the JW is no exception. If I am going into a business with a Witness I would be just as careful as it was a Catholic or a Moslem or an atheist.

Let me be clear about something. It is perfectly fine for someone to be religious. Religions have the potential to make someone a good person. I have been told, and have read of, former killers and drug addicts who changed their lives after joining a religion – Catholic, Pentecostal, JW, Islam, etc. But religions also create problems in people’s lives. Anglicans and Pentecostals are made to part with 10% of their money, which, unfortunately is mostly not appropriated according to the manner such moneys were appropriated in Bible times. Jehovah’s Witnesses are made to refuse blood transfusion even at the risk of dying. Members are turned into robots who read the Bible everyday but must funnel it through JW literature. Members will not do anything about evil in the world around them, but will just go about preaching and waiting patiently for God to come and sort out things. Even if Hitler is invading, just pick up your Bible and go knocking doors. Let’s not even talk about Islam.

Neither do I believe that being a Witness makes you incur the disfavour of God as long as you don’t allow the burdens it heaps on your shoulders (like every religion does) to stop you from having time to practice the basic love God enjoins upon all mankind: love your neighbour as yourself. If God is displeased with Witnesses for certain things, like throwing their lives away when a transfusion could have saved them, I think the leadership of the church will bear much of the responsibility. Of course, those who had the capacity to know but chose to follow blindly won’t go free.

So what am I saying? That being a JW is just like being in any other religion. Full stop. I am hoping that after reading me you will, at least, be sensible about things and start seeing other Christians and your fellow Christians, people like you searching for the truth and believing they have it, rather than as ignorant poor photocopies of Christianity as you currently see them. And that if you have any relatives who are former Witnesses you will stop seeing them as walking corpses awaiting slaughter at Armageddon as you currently see them. The Witnesses are not up there as the one true religion, the people for God’s name having his favour and a responsibility to make him known. When you die God will judge on how much love you showed to your neighbour, not whether you were a JW or a Catholic. All these religions were invented by men and ought not to be taken to too seriously.

RWilliams: I actually sense a change for the better in the JW religion over the last year or so, if you read the last few watchtowers, or the new book, “Come be my Follower” about how to imitate Jesus, even if you only read it objectively, you can’t help but get a feeling that it is being done for a good purpose, there is no malicious intent of brainwashing, deceit, hoodwinking, or any other underhanded motivation, and it really is just trying to help people to become better people by following Christs example.

I promise to get this book and read it as soon as I can make time for it.

RWilliams: You seem bent on dragging as much up as you can to discredit  JW’s, almost sourly for some reason, when really they are doing a lot of good in the world.

I have actually exercised a lot of restraint, Mr Williams. I have. I doubt a long time Witness like you know the feel of being at the other side of the table, being told that you are one of the world wallowing in darkness, having not found “the truth”. It’s the claims you make I am REACTING to. No, I am not dragging up as much as I can. [i]As much as I have will two books. I don’t know what as much as I can will amount to.

RWilliams: As for the UN, they did not “join the UN” as you put it, the DPI is just that, a useful department of Public Information, and if you check on the UN site, it even states that being a NGO affiliated with the DPI, does not tie you to the UN, other than to support and respect the principles of the Charter of the United Nations.

I agree they did not become a member of the UN sitting at the Security Council or the General Assembly. But are you aware, Mr Williams, that if you attend a church service, without “joining the church” you are likely to face disciplinary action? Anyway, let’s restate what the Witnesses did and then anyone can make what they like of it: They registered with the UN as an associated NGO. To be allowed to do that, you are required to show evidence that you support the UN Charter and have the capacity to promote awareness about UN activities with a large audience. Read the UN Charter? I leave it there.

RWilliams: Jesus said we should support and respect the authorities, unless it comes to “obeying gods rule rather than mans” When it comes to the third Reich, or Malawian party cards, they were working directly against god’s will,

I fail to see how carrying a party card without actually involving yourself in party activities would have been against God’s will, even the JW interpretation of God’s will, whereas involving yourself in a political movement’s activities by promoting awareness about it is okay.

RWilliams: and if those Christians were “Duped” at least they were “duped” into staying peaceful with each other and held there integrity for many til death, instead of joining in the massacres like the members of so many other lip-service pago-christain religions.

Don’t lump things together. Your brothers in Germany were the ones who refused to take part in Hitler’s satanic bloodshed. The ones in Malawi were merely asked to purchase party cards.

Besides, your reasoning here is faulty. God says “love your neighbour as yourself”. It is written in our hearts – no Bible required. Only a moral weakling needs to be duped into complying with this divine and natural injunction. Only a moral wimp needs to be promised heaven or a wonderful new earth to get him to do the right thing by humanity.

@Acidosis
I am neither Catholic, Muslim nor pagan. And you are reading too much into what I wrote - I only asked him to get PERSPECTIVES.

nellaluv:
Amazingly daft, 'cos you need clearance and authorization to enter another country's air space and land on their soil or else you're toast

That statement was made tongue in cheek, as it is hard to see how that curio can do Nigeria to US. A kid of six would have spotted that from the post, but not you. Your haste to slur people and the words you employ hardly say much about your breeding, Miss.

I see you are from Benin, where belief in this sort of thing is rife. I suggest you read The Crucible, a play by Arthur Miller. It might help you understand these things better. At least, it will give you a perspective.

Lol. And this one with his wife:
Me: You mean God will burn me in hellfire for eternity for a mere 70 or 80 years of sin?
Her: It is not your sins God will burn you for. It is your stubborn refusal to accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour after hearing the message. (She’s a first class honours science graduate and a company executive)

WOF = Word of Faith. I guess as a brand of Christianity it started life on the pages of some magazine published by Kenneth Hagin before taking on a life of its own. WOF Christians are quite easy to recognise with their “Speak it and claim it.” “I am not an ordinary man.” “I operate at a higher level.” "Nothing can stop you." “I am higher than angels.” “Christ has already gained you the victory. Everything in the world is yours. Just take it.” and similar feel-good nonsense. If you watch Nigerian television on Sundays, you already know its biggest proponents there.

[quote author=Mad_Max link=topic=436863.msg6510550#msg6510550 date=1280933404]The 'bible' and religious titles and religious rituals and doctrines weigh higher on some people's scales than God Himself, and the sum of all those things is actually their God. [/quote]You know, Paul states similar sentiments in Philippians 3:19.

beeman80:
Nigerians will certainly love this car with our 'rushing nature'. Laughs. Just hope dey dont fall on those of us that choose to remain on the ground.

I think Nigerians will love it for the possibilities. Think: No need to go queue at the American embassy. Just take off from your garage to the US! No border checks, no customs, No NCAA. When you get to the US you skip the airport and land in a primary school. Amazing! 

Thank, M_Nwankwo. I think that is fair.

noetic16:
I am not aware of any scripture that suggests the aforementioned? please explain . . ,

Acts 11:24 (New International Version)
24He was a good man, full of the Holy Spirit and faith, and a great number of people were brought to the Lord.

Acts 7:55-56 (New International Version)
55But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. 56"Look," he said, "I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God."

Acts 8:15 (New International Version)
15When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit,

Acts 9:17 (New International Version)
17Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here—has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit."

Jude 1:20 (New International Version)
20But you, dear friends, build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in the Holy Spirit.

Hebrews 6:4 (New International Version)
4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,

Acts 13:19 (New International Version)
19he overthrew seven nations in Canaan and gave their land to his people as their inheritance.

Matthew 3:11 (New International Version)
11"I baptize you with[a] water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

Luke 1:35 (New International Version)
35The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called[a] the Son of God.

Acts 10:38 (New International Version)
38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.

Want more? 

@Mad_Max
Great post.

I have a business associate-come-friend who is an extreme WOF Christian. Some of his beliefs about deploying God at will to win contracts or kill your enemies are some of the most obnoxious things I have ever heard.

Now, this man says he respects what he calls my "high principles" so it just depresses him I am "missing out on Christ and might end up in hellfire". Discussions always begin with him saying , "You really have to come to church this Sunday" and often ending, thirty minutes to two hours later, with me saying, "I pray contemporary Christianity discovers Christ someday. When it happens, I will congratulate you. I may even join you."

It sometimes leaves me with a mind conflict as to whether people are to blame for their indoctrination or not. Most people can't be bothered. You can hardly blame some people since they don't understand it all. For instance, my experience with some illiterate people is that they place a lot of faith on anything read from a book, particularly a sacred book. For some people I guess it doesn't really matter because they are such good and godly people in thoughts, words and deeds that whatever creed they subscribe to just can't be important. But often you see intelligent people and others with Ph.D. carrying indoctrination into adulthood and telling you you are damned if you don't share his beliefs.

M_Nwankwo said something very important: one needs a genuine heart which is open to receiving the truth. Problem is that too many people believe they have the truth already and so are not seeking anything, even if what they parrot around makes no sense at all.

[quote author=oyinda. link=topic=487972.msg6506457#msg6506457 date=1280875261]everybody living in the contemporary world knows that Africa has a history. Every continent has a history.[/quote]Wrong. Most people living in the contemporary world think African history began with the coming of the Europeans who "discovered" one place after another. People generally equate history with written history. I suggest you read Roland Oliver, Majory Perham, J.D. Fage and the other earlier "writers of African history." Their words: "Africa has no history, science or philosophy." Old material but still widely accepted, albeit not in the same words in this era of poli. Encyclopaedias written in the 19th century made similar claims. Many Africans themselves don't know their history.

oyinda: David Hume died in 1776 for christ sake. u make it seem as if he's a modern day philosopher.

How did I do this when I said his thesis provided basis for the slave trade? Is the slave trade an ongoing concert? And considering the horrors of the slave trade, colonialism and apartheid and the effects of these on our psyche, why do you think we would just chuck the writings of the likes Hume? Why do you think we should not seriously study history so as to better understand how we got here?

oyinda: to me, all these egyptology stuff is just very irrelevant. what are we trying to prove? lol

That Africans do have a history, one that even predates that of the Europeans. That Black Africans are not anthropologically an inferior race and is widely believed, even today. I don't know that the ancient Egyptians were black and am not one to accept something just because someone says it or I want it to be so, but if they were there is no reason the evidence should not be brought to light and documented. I intend to look at the evidence Diop and his disciples have. If you do and find something useful, I am sure you will stop agreeing with Aime Cesaire and his ilk the way you currently do. Nobody is saying that it will stop pollution and violence the Niger Delta, starvation in Niger, corruption in Kenya, or Mugabe from abusing power. But if our children are taught our history, it can serve as a tool to spur them to greater heights. That is why the British taught their children quaint songs like "Britannia rules the waves," which they still sing now Britannia no longer rules the waves. That is why they spend billions teaching their children self-esteem in America. I personally don't have any nostalgia or even love for empires. I come from one , but I won't touch a chieftaincy title with a mile long pole. But studying history, ma'am, and simply recognising them, as well as debunking the false history of Africa being taught at universities across the world is important.

oyinda: i'm glad u agree that Africans are at the bottom of the pile. and being associated with pyramids or married to Nefertiti is not the answers to our problems.

Africans are at the bottom of the pile - that is a self-evident fact and only someone who revels in self-delusion can attempt to deny it. As I have explained, knowing our history is not the answer to our problems. Diop, Armah and the others don't think so. That is not the point of the article in op. But it has its place. It is the answer to a problem.

sayso:
Revolvers have six rounds of bullets,but my concern here is why empty all when you could have finished him with 1/2 bullets at close range so as to defend yourself with the remaining bullets.My quest is that the General panicked firing at will not knowing what to do.Nigeria military General do not have combatant   experience.

^^^ I have to agree with you.

obailala:
From the line above, I think the General used the kidnappers gun to send him to hell. . .BTW, which kind of gun has six rounds?

Revolvers, like those you see cops carry in the US. There are 10-round revolvers, though.

^^^ How might your fright be tackled?

^^^
ehm. I think you are missing the whole point, ma'am. Subject matter is only important within a context. In this case, the claim that Africa has no history. Was David Hume and the other philosophers right to classify Africans as inferior human species, thus justifying the slave trade? That is the issue. It is not about wishing to be associated with pyramids or to marry Nefertiti. Today, Africans are at the bottom of the pile. The way forward lies in our hands, not that of Imhotep or Akhenaton.

makajibbz:
iz dat supposd 2b funny.

I did get some laugh out of it.

Yommy247:
@all. Thanks very much. With dis piece of advice from u all i tink i know which way to go and dat is DON'T DO IT

Are you real? Even a kid of six who decides to dip his hands into the pot of soup knows it is wrong. This is the best post in this thread so far, every word of it is good "advice" for you:

MRbrownJAY:
the question you asked is as stoopid as asking:
is thievery a good thing to go into?!

if you have a criminal state of mind then you will have no problem to get into this biz until they catch you!
instead of thinking of the quick reward, think very carefully of how it will feel to spend yrs in jail being someone's biatch!

hopefully you will make the right choices for your life. . . . . . . . . also, may i suggest that you look for better "friends".

Deep Sight:
2. THE POSITIVE SOMETHINGNESS (Male/ Light) AND THE NEGATIVE NOTHINGNESS (Feminine/ Darkness) ARE THE PRIMORDIAL INFLUENCES THAT DICTATE SEXUALITY AND AS SUCH THERE IS A NOTION OF SUCH INFLUENCES IN EVERY REALM OF EXISTENCE THOUGH EXPRESSED IN DIFFERING FORMS.

I think sexuality is material. If the influences you speak of exist, I doubt there would be cross-sexuality between dimensions. That is one of the reasons I don’t believe that Genesis story actually took place at a literal time (6000 years ago) and place (Middle-East).

nuclearboy:
@MyJoe:

Maybe the following will explain the believers' point of view

[1] Angels lived in Heaven
[2] They sinned and were cast out onto earth.
[3] They took on bodily forms
[4] The bodies they now "owned" allowed them to be able to lust after the women

Noetic simply says -> Spirit beings which is what they were IN heaven do not have such desires. It was only when they inhabited BODIES that such became an issue. Thus, a heaven in which there will exist only "spirit" beings is not a location for conjugal relations.

Consider that these "angels" are not stated to have deloped their lust (at least for women) in heaven but rather were on the earth and saw how tantalizing and bodacious beautiful the women were

Comprehende?

I guess that’s okay for a point of view. The verse doesn’t set things out in the order you do, but since they were “sons of God” the natural assumption would be that they were angels in heaven who saw beauty from their abode (heaven) and decided to put on material bodies. But as points of view go, I get yours here.

[quote author=Mad_Max link=topic=436863.msg6498388#msg6498388 date=1280776300]Lol. Really sorry. I just thought it too long and beyond the scope of the observation.[/quote]Certainly not too long. All the issues you touched on are profoundly relevant.

49cents:
I simply amazed by the posts of this thread, every poster has been very insightful, yet i feel quite sure that the end of this manner of thought is the disbelief stemming from confusion.

The poster "explained" how Catholics will see the Blessed Vigin Mary, including the others with their various religiuos orientations, this is plain presumptions which we believe because it makes the most sense to our quest to find a comfort zone of belief.

The spiritual, unlike the physical that can be mastered by scientific observation (even not thoroughly)  is impossible to safely comprehended, how on earth did we think we can reconcile everything in the finite mind we were given by the infinite God. This is the basic premise for any search for truth,

There are many things that are illogical eg the human nature a composite of the physical and immaterial soul, we accept not because we know how they are possible but it is an event before us, let us build our knowledge from the little facts around us before delving into things that we cant sincerely say we have seen all at once.

The objective of my enquiry as set out in OP was to try to find out whether in the light of diametrically opposed nature of the contents of revelations, they can be trusted to guide us; why apparently sincerely people see different things even though these revelations are all thought to be from God; and to ask spiritual people to explain why they have been confusing us. This is an important matter because I know people who became Christians after someone "died" and came back and told them of their tour of hellfire. There are people who are convinced of the rightness of Catholicism because Mary regularly reveals things to them. If you can read previous pages you will see that a lot of light has been thrown into this matter.

On the worthwhileness of seeking insights into infinite spiritual matters with our finite minds, I have nothing to add to what Mad_Max has written, even while agreeing with you that we cannot reconcile "everything". 

^^^ You are confusing me. My enquiry is based on the Genesis account where angels peeped from heaven at some girls taking their baths in a swimming pool and promptly went after them. That is the basis. It means spirit beings can be tempted by well-proportioned women to the point of doing something about it.

Davidylan: Preparing for his wedding in the USA.
JeSoul: Preparing for her wedding in the USA _{not that she is marrying Davido!}
Viaro: From the horse’s (nuclearboy) mouth, he has gone to another planet to bless them.
Mad_Max: Still very much around. Will post on any topic that tickles her.
Krayola: A bit complicated. He finished university, so his folks stopped giving him money as they used to. And he had to, well, start making his. As y’all know, making money is a full time job. I heard he is close to bringing down his first million.
Jagunlabi: Not sure. Probably died and dissolved to join the elements. Rumours of his reincarnation unsubstantiated.
M_Nwankwo: He is reading this. He is selective of topics, but he has certainly been posting less than he used to lately.
Noetic: Very very busy. That’s all you are allowed to know. We can't risk his anonymity!
Huxley: Around. Prefers running his own threads which he opens at the rate of 12 an hour.

[quote author=Mad_Max link=topic=436863.msg6445662#msg6445662 date=1280050430]remvd[/quote]Why naah? Such excellent treatises. A good thing I have them. 

Who's this Analissa? I'm liking her surely!