₦airaland Forum

Chei. We don buy correct striker. See touch.

Amala INC.

Branzy:
No player has won possession in the midfield third more times than Jorginho (104) in Europe's top five leagues this season. #CFC [WhoScored]

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BlueAngel444:
yet fvcknard would be making stupid noises.

BlueAngel444:
It's hilarious. Statistics showed he's the player in Europe with the most forward passes completed, and the second most attempted. Statistics now show he's winning possession back more often than others. I believe statistics have also shown he's running a lot more than most players in the side. And yet he supposedly can't pass, defend, or run.
English pundits everyone.

Guys guys......This is wrong. You are not allowed to make sense when it comes to Jorginho.

Apparently, if you are not forming activity at electric pace like the Brazilian up front, then you cannot be contributing anything meaningful. Someone, last week tried to argue that a dude that runs average 12km a game is standing around and doing nothing.

Cognitive Dissonance.

iamJ:
emerson played well today, did more crosses than alonso usually does


i always admit when i'm wrong, he is better than alonso

Not been a fan of his but based on what he showed today, against a solid team, dude really stepped up. I now believe that he showed enough to play more than he has so far.

Kepaaaaaa

What a shame. We should not have allowed that goal.

Sarri turning Kante into a goal scorer.

airmark:
Nice one, you are learning how to turn amala fast.

Hehehe. Amala Inc.

RuuDie:
Chelsea gotta play to Giroud's ability to get anything out of this... and frankly, this involves giving the ball less to Hazard!

Hehehehe. Hazard says hi

Adiwana:
Bro,Stop trying to give excuses for the guy.Any decent CM can be play 200 passes and cover a lot of grounds.Doesn't take anything out of this world to complete 100 passes in a game especially if you play against teams that are afraid to press.Any team that implements the Regista role must utilise Wingers as the functional role of one is to pick out those Wingers who usually open up when he gets the ball by playing long diagonal passes to them. This is what Chelsea have in Hazard,Pedro and Willian.


Also know that Registas can be considered as "False DMS".So if hes been marked out by the opposition which is normal for any Regista,It's his job to adjust to the tempo and tactics of his opponets by adjusting his position on the pitch to create those required apace for himself.Scholes did this a lot.Any game Scholes was heavily marked,he created those extra spaces by being a deep lying midfielder in order to create freedom for himself.He didn't just stay in one place and wished that his opponets didn't mark him so he can play.So for Jorginho It's either he builds up play by dropping very deep by being the extra man in defense,in this case the player man marking him is either forced to follow him or drop back,which then gives him the freedom to fully express himself or a shield in person like Kante us provided to crowd out the midfield and disrupt the opponets plan

Vision and ability to position is a must have for a Regista which Jorginho heavily lacks.Even if he is giving that freedom as what was seen with Chelsea's earlier season games,he just transitions play from defense to attack nothing more.Hes the focal point of the whole team so it's only natural teams will want to take him out.But that is not an excuse as you cannot compare a Regista in Pirlo to this guy.Check out the difference between the two.And this is not because of any Sarri tactics as I have watched this guys numerous games for Italy and he simply is shiit.Sarri is very useless and will soon be sacked but this guy just can't carry the responsibility his role demands

Whatever you do, do not perpetuate falsehood to further a point. The stats are completely contrary to the points you have made.

You claim any decent CM can make 100 passes but he makes more passes than the best CMs in the league. How does he do it? Are they playing different teams who are not afraid to press? Is this a miracle or are all the CMs in the league that 5hit ?.... If we believe he is that rubbish. Are the numbers falsely added to his stats?

You claim instead of him standing in one place, he should be like Paul Scholes creating spaces for his team mates, yet he is averaging 12km a game and top 3 in the league with distance covered? Where is he getting this distance from if he is standing in one place? How do you think he averages that much distance? Because he is constantly opening up channels of passes for his team mates and never standing one place.



The fundamental difference between Pirlo and Jorginho is their mandate within the specified tactical system. Pirlo was mandated to find any player, so a long ball option was open to his role. Jorginho plays strictly to his mandate at Chelsea, short passes within the channels and he does so effectively. Because he is not doing it the way you are used to, does not mean he is doing nothing at all.

Why is David Luiz using the long balls and Jorginho isn't? Because each man is playing to their mandate within the tactical system. It's not because Jorginho sees a players and lacks the ability to make a long pass.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbyPhHKnebk

Seek the evidence if you don't have it.

If he is not using long balls, it is because his tactical mandate suggests that he doesn't. That's why I said blame Sarri or whatever you want. But pleaseeeee..... Jorginho passes. That's what he does. Stop claiming he cannot make long passes, doesn't have vision or doesn't find players in spaces. It is just not true.

airmark:
Some players no matter the pressure, they hardly lose possession, they don't need to look like Lukaku. Iniesta, Modric are my favourites in this aspect.

Busquets' weaknesses won't make him survive in epl, just as we are seeing in Jorginho's case, Busquets' lack of physicality in his game and tracking back like a pregnant woman, will be exposed every week. We are talking about a dm coming to play in epl, not playing for barca in laliga.

How can you say "no matter the pressure"? There is just no evidence on earth to back this up and you know it. What you are seeing is a manifestation of many opponent's perception of the futility of such of move.

The truth is Iniesta and Modric play for teams where targeting a player makes defending as a unit potentially dangerous, because there is always another player just as effective. Therefore the whole plan is non-starter. So because you hardly see this done, you assume Modric "no matter the pressure" will not be marked out of a game. No conclusion can be more wrong.

If you put Modric as regista in Sarri's system and then Kante and Barkley alongside him, he becomes infinitely easier to mark out. And this is exactly why it is easier to mark out Jorginho.

Conversely, if Jorginho played in the same role alongside Verrati and Modric in midfield, and Hazard, Salah and Aguero in attack, who becomes the target? Opposition teams will have to approach defending from a different angle, focus less on man-marking an individual and suddenly Jorginho becomes infinitely more effective.

Jorginho is not an average player by any stretch of the imagination. This dude averages 90 passes per game consistently when not man-marked. Easily the player with the most passes in the league (over 150 more than Laporte in second place) and he's not even in the top 40 for most minutes played. Which means his passes per minute is infinitely off the charts. You don't do that by being average. You don't do that by being lazy either. Jorginho covers an average 12km per 90mins, putting him easily in the top 3 for distance covered in the PL. More than Kante who is known to cover the world (correct as at the last time I followed the stats).


Chelsea's problems are not Jorginho's fault. It is not his fault either that he gets targeted easily. He gets easily targeted primarily because apart from Hazard, the whole Chelsea 11 are not dangerous with the ball. You can blame Sarri's system or blame something else, but less of this Jorginho thing abeg. It's not like he's Bakayoko who loses the ball before it reaches him.


This is why I don't get the overall premise of this argument.

airmark:
So you've agreed that teams haven't paid him attention, right? Why were you now arguing blindly? That's the reason why he should come to where they would pay him attention every week.

When we started this season, teams didn't pay Jorginho attention, now all guns are pointed to his head by opponents.

But this can be said for literally any footballer that is not Messi or Ronaldo. If any player is paid enough attention, in any league, their abilities to effect a game can well and truly be nullified.

What exactly is the point of these arguments?

nihilistjnr:
Jorginho as a person is not the focal point of Sarriball. The regista role is the focal point. Jorginho is just the guy tasked with executing the role.

It's an important distinction that's worth making.

if Jorginho got injured today, Sarri will most likely keep the same system and just play someone else in that role.

The reason we're all at Jorginho's neck is because we have now seen that he is not competent enough to execute that regista role in EPL, where every one and their mother will press him like a fan yogo satchet.

I think this is just splitting hairs really. Jorginho is the regista and hence the focal point. I fail to understand the distinction. If Jorginho gets injured, then Sarri is in trouble as no one can play the position as best as he can. Perhaps Kovacic can.

However, if someone else does, that person assumes the focal point of Sarri's tactical set-up. I don't think it needs to be complicated.



Now as I said earlier, if you argue that Jorginho's position can use some improvement, I agree. But you cannot say he is useless. If he was, then he will not be targeted for man-marking by opposition teams. The fact that he is being targeted for man-marking by the opposition reaffirms the fact that he is important to the team, even if his overall output does not conform to our general appreciation of football.

Ibime:
Don't let Unlimited22 see this oh.

More wingers? Is Sarri the new Emenalo? Even the winger Bayern are pinning hopes on, he hasn't had chance to play.

We don't need more midfielders either unless one is wedded to the idea of Regista and is simultaneously admitting that Jorginho has failed.

Pre-Sarri, we would consider Kante, Kovacic and Ampadu decent depth for the DM positions, and Barkley and RLC for the AM positions.

I see nothing but diminishing returns in buying a substitute for Jorginho. How does that improve the 11 on the pitch?

In another system I agree. But I said that in the general understanding (and acceptance by now) that Sarri is the type of manager who will stick to his principles and very unlikely to change. It is impossible for him to make Kovavcic/Kante/Barkley work in his system. In terms of tactical positioning and general tactical awareness, they are fine but in terms of productivity, I think all three of them have like what.....5 goals between them all season? He is in trouble if he sticks with the current crop. That's why he talks of midfielders and wingers.

RLC is the one that I believe has the best chance of succeeding in his system. His tactical understanding of the system is okay but he brings creativity, strength, unpredictability and a goal threat.


Personally I think he can still achieve better results as I have looked at how he plays and I really believe he can still achieve the same method with a 3-5-2 or a 3-4-3.

nihilistjnr:
you've failed to prove your case though

You cannot argue that a player is a focal point of a tactical system, state that targeting that player weakens the overall stability and potency of the system, concede that opposition teams have tried this and have been successful at it, yet argue at the same that the focal point is useless. That's my point.


You could argue that the focal point could use an upgrade - which is true for every position - but not that it is useless.

Ibime:
Jorginho is the Killswitch for Sarri formation. If teams figure out they can neutralise him with diamond formation, then Sarri needs to tweak things.

Sacking Sarri is too hasty and premature but there are some streaks of stubbornness that everyone can see weak points every week, and Sarri will refuse to do anything about it. If playing with a Regista is a must for his system, is starting Alonso every week a must? Is playing without striker a must? These things are building up

This is our first loss which I watched live this season, I can imagine the same issues must have been grating on Chelsea fans who watched all of our losses this season.

Stubbornness no dey work for EPL oh. Coaches must adapt.

This is a truly balanced view of the situation. I think the most balanced I have seen.

There are no ifs actually; a regista is an absolute number one player for this system, as the regista dictates the smooth passage of play in between the lines - between the two midfielders in the midfield 3 and the over-lapping full backs. The idea is to create a triangle around play at every point on the pitch, from back to front, always! Jorginho makes this work.

But I also agree that if a regista is a must, other parts can be flexible. I for one believe that Sarri is wrong for consistently playing without a striker. I am yet to see a game where this has worked.

I am middle ground on Alonso, as I believe Alonso is a goal threat, infinitely more than Emerson. And Alonso's tactical awareness is top notch, even though he doesn't have the pace to burn. I have zero faith in Emerson - defensively and tactically.

Sarri is suffering from a few problems.

1. An inert midfield (creativity and goals wise) in Kante/Barkley and Kovacic.
2. A very unproductive attacking front line in Willian and partly, Pedro.
3. No striker.

The backline IMO is the very least of Sarri's problems.

I think Sarri will buy players (wingers and midfielders) eventually, and I think he can make the system work.

nihilistjnr:
Everybody knows Sarriball uses a regista as frame of reference.

The coaches have figured out that the guy playing the regista role is softer than stockfish that was soaked for 1 week.

Instead of coming up with tactics to counter Sarri's tactics, it's easier to just remove the regista from the board.

If Sarri put someone else in that position, perhaps someone who an indomie playet like Jorginho, Teams would instead look for a tactical solution to the regista problem.

Hazard is 10 million times better than Jorginho, and nobody was man marking him. At one point, Maitland completely refused to even close him down.

Pedro is another one, He was completely unmarked all game. That's a tactical decision, because Pedro has the ability to evade the press, and can dabaru defensive positions. See below

Jorginho on the other hand can't run, can't dribble, and control ball. He was more obliging than an olosho with 5 star customer service, and so he got bullied all night.

I fully understand Sarri's system and Jorginho's importance in it. The point of my multiple questions to introduce the commencement of a resistance to your earlier statement (and one that has been perpetuated several times on this thread) that Jorginho is useless. My point was to establish that both those statements cannot true.

nihilistjnr:
Beating Chelsea is so simple. Tell the number 10 to mark Jorginho. Then pack the midfield with 3 other guys.

So why does this continue to happen (since Spurs' game) if Jorginho is actually useless? Why would any manager work one full week at a tactical plan that targets Jorginho if truly, he is useless?

Everyone freaking out as usual. Sack Sarri? Half a season in?
Nawa o!

Not good.

Greatihex:
i no get time to curse the man again. NA the board I dey blame for looking at all the coaches in the market and they deemed it fit to sign a man without even a spoon

Who would you have signed?

CHO coming on

FBSSSSS

See FBS

The productive Pedro is back

This is the third camera angle that Sarri found, which surprisingly, was not reviewed by the VAR board.

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/teams/tottenham-hotspur/11602382/was-kane-offside


Isn't the premise of VAR to review all camera views around the area of interest ?

BikeMan:
Players like Jorginho? You find passing around without scoring goals fun to watch? I would have loved it too if it were not sending us to another round of Thursday Night Football. Do you enjoy watching matches on Thursdays?

I see this a lot. This criticism of Jorginho. I was the first to criticize Jorginho on his recovery play. On his offensive play though, there's nothing you want more in a Sarri system, than a Jorginho-like player. That's what makes this system tick.

It doesn't matter that half the passes Jorginho makes goes sideways or backwards. He does so because he needs to keep the system running - the ability to build from back to forward - not particularly because he wants to. Could there be a better player in that role ? I don't know. Perhaps Nicolo Barella. But if you think any player in that position will not be making those sideways and backwards passes, then you are mistaken. That player is not playing the Sarri system.

Any player in that role who chooses the option of forward passes first is breaking the system. And that's why Fabregas does not play, despite being marginally quicker than Jorginho.

Holy Christ. Sarri just found a camera angle that shows that the VAR decision was wrong. How did the VAR review not have access to that camera angle? That's embarrassing.

BikeMan:
this football is awful to watch. since December how many times have we scored JUST 2 goals. Our points now and Conte's terrible season, please let's compare. Critically looking at it, Sarri is moving in a shitty opposite direction. I totally got uninterested watching them passing around and can't just find a goal against Southampton of all teams, even Assnal that lost scored twice. It would take a while before i gain interest again

You lost me when you said the football is awful to watch. I agree we need to score goals but awful to watch? I was one of the only few on here that stood by Conte. I am still a massive fan of Conte and his 3-4-3. However, based on what I have seen so far, I will take Sarri. Sarri's method are more future proof. It will take longer to reach its potential but it will be devastating to opponents, when he is able to place his own players in each position.

BikeMan:
I remember Don Conte wiping Spurs 4:2 at Wembley in the FA without even starting Hazard and Costa. Maybe backing him the transfer window would have been the right choice This Sarri is a no-no for me.

I think you are just being impatient. Sarri may be making choices that seem incompatible with the average man's appreciation for the game, overall, if you look critically at what he is building, he is moving in the right direction. He's been here for half a season. Let's be patient.

Sarri is not stupid. Perhaps Giroud is not as fit for a full game

Finally, FBS is off.