₦airaland Forum

Muslims today generally insist that their Koran is precisely the wording of the original, and they therefore criticize the many "Versions" of the Christian Bible (even though all those Versions are actually translations of the exact same original Greek and Aramaic source Manuscripts). But such a claim is incorrect. There were at least 14 variant Arabic versions of the Koran in common use around 900 AD, and possibly several more. These arose due to the method of writing and copying that existed at that time. (Short) Vowels were not recorded, only the consonants. The short vowels could sometimes be represented by a comma-like or slanting-dash mark either above or below a letter. Also, differences between 'b' and 't' and 'th', which are identical except for dots (points) that distinguish them, were unclear because the dots were not recorded in the consonantal text of the time. Other letter/sound pairs also have exactly identical symbols. Therefore, a reader or a copyist could sometimes read different actual words from the same set of symbols. No question regarding the ORIGINAL wording was involved, but rather the many variations arose due to writing and copying the texts.

As a result, a number of codices developed:
Very Early:


Uthmanic
Ibn Mas'ud
Ubay ibn Ka'b
Abu Musa al-Ash'ari
Ali
Zayd ibn Thaabit
Abu Dardaa'
Later, the Koranic scholar Abu Bakr Ibn Mujahid (early 900s AD) fixed on one system of consonants and some control on application of vowels, which resulted in the general acceptance of seven basic systems.

The Seven Qiraa'aat (i.e, Readings):
The 'seven readings' were standardized in the second/eighth century. Abu Bakr Ibn Mujahid (d. 936 AD), a ninth-century Muslim scholar from Iraq, wrote a book entitled The Seven Readings, in which he selected seven of the prevailing modes of recitation as the best transmitted and most reliable. Others were subsequently disfavoured and even opposed, among them the readings of Ibn Mas'ud and Ubay ibn Ka'b. However, this is not to say that one must restrict oneself to one of these seven readings, or to all of them. Below are listed the local origin of the seven readings and the names of readers and some later transmitters (in arabic 'raawis') connected with them:
Readers


Naafi' of Medina (middle 700s AD)
Ibn Kathir of Mecca (early 700s AD)
Ibn 'Amir of Damascus (early 700s AD)
Abu 'Amr of Basra (middle 700s AD)
'Aasim of Kufa (early 700s AD)
Hamza of Kufa (middle 700s AD)
Al-Kisaa'i of Kufa (late 700s AD)
Each of these seven actually had two variants, due to different pathways (Transmitters):


Naafi' of Medina by Warsh or Qaaluun
Ibn Kathir of Mecca by al-Bazzi or Qunbul
Ibn 'Amir of Damascus by Hisham or Ibn Dhakwan
Abu 'Amr of Basra by al-Duri or al-Susi
'Aasim of Kufa by Hafs or Abu Bakr
Hamza of Kufa by Khalaf or Khallad
Al-Kisaa'i of Kufa by al-Duri or Abul Harith
Fourteen accepted readings in all. Some scholars recognize even more, such as:
Place / Reader
Madinah / Abu Ja'far (130/747)
Basra / Ya'qub (205/820)
Kufa / Khalaf (229/843)
Basra / Hassan al Basri (110/728)
Makkah / Ibn Muhaisin (123/740)
Basra / Yahya al-Yazidi (202/817)
Kufa / al-A'mash (148/765)

The selected 'Seven Readings' of Mujahid were:
Place / Reader / Transmitter :

1. Madinah / Naafi' (d. 169H/785AD) / Qaaluun or Warsh (d. 197H/812AD)
2. Makkah / Ibn Kathir (d. 119H/737AD)
3. Damascus / Ibn 'Amir (d. 118H/736AD)
4. Basra / Abu 'Amr (d. 154H/771AD) / Suusi or Duuri (d. 246H/860AD)
5. Kufa / 'Aasim (d. 128H/746AD) / Hafs (d. 180H/796AD)
6. Kufa / Hamza (d. 156H/773AD)
7. Kufa / Al-Kisaa'i (d. 189H/805AD) / Duuri (d. 246H/860AD)

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more than 4, nor you have your answer.

how many precisely?

were you not talking about arab/jewish wars?
were you not the one that mentioned you had a Jewish friend?
are you saying a blackman can never be allowed to convert to judaism?

Are you a moderate moslem too? I guess abuzola is of the jihad stuff?

Do their recite allahu-akbar or not alhaji, no Christian has killed reciting God's name.

Ahonohai just said his mind, leave all the complaints. What he said is even true, Nigeria declares both Christian and islamic holidays.

No one in their Right minds is going to bang on about any such ideas after reading this sura,

What supports the whole saga even there?

you mean the abrogated suras? the ones allah revealed after he changed his mind on his daughters?

Yeah. If they were, tell us their names. Only names are OK. I know everyone can make a little search.

are you denying? unless you want to tell us that islamic writers now depend on Christians to transmit their writings.

If your biography is been compiled, wont your marriage history count?

The esienwu was poisoned and mohammed didnt know it was poisoined. Jesus predicted his death.

Continue with your wild stories and the Jews dont care about your nigerian woman support. They are probably laughing at you about your black woman support which they have no need for! They consider you an inferior, anyway with still a new brain, unused! Thats their jokes among themselves about black people, worldwide.

As if arabs care about black peoples' support. They also consider blacks as inferior. Let person hear word abeg.

Ogbeni, stop this charade. Today, Darby Bible Company of America, the Publisher of NIV Bible is preparing to once more edit the Bible to make in your lifetime the Quranic verse that says that you have no Bible to stand on comes alive and be proven true, again!

Just like contemporaries of mohammed edited the koran and abrogated some verses like the satanic verses?what of the different versions of the koran? you can only play those mindgames on people who dont know about islam and muslims.

Who commanded fasting on you, except Jesus was copying as to make sure that Moses' Mt. Sinai tradion remains. The same tradition you cancelled out on your own. The same tradition you nnow say its been reduced to Love your God and neighbor!

Just as mohammed copied it from Jesus and reduced it to eating heavy breakfast and heavy late dinner?

I drank water this morning before dawn. Akara and Ogbi is even more expensive than water. And InshaAllah, I will break my fast at Sunset, a minute or two after. I do not eieve that it is the quality of food that will prevent the pang of Aawe to gbo e! I lifted for your benefit the reason for fasting, the most being commandmend from the Creator, you are giving me your "christian mumbo jumbo for spiritual uplifting fasting reason!"

Does that make you a better muslim than those that eats heavy early breakfast and heavy late dinner?

I know all muslims are afraid of spiritual discourse.

Why dont you take up my challenge and see say kaki no be fake leda, ogbeni? You cant do it, can you?

If I can fast without eating for a full day, what makes you think I will not be able to take a heavy early breakfast and a heavy late dinner?

Muhammad (AS) already led Isa bin Mariam and all the other prophets and Malaika Jibril (AS) in Salah Alal-Ibrahima in Ilya's Masjid Aqsa in Isra part of Isra wa Miraj Journey!

I believe mohammed wrote this nonsense when he was possessed by one of the demons that made him forget he was having sex with his wives while he was not.

sleek29:
its called re-branding

Hmmm, boko haram again?

Just dress neatly and responsibly with a tie, not neccesary suited up.

You are a funny fellow, the next minute you discredit al-Tabari and the next minute you quote him? funny dude.

to those who transmitted it to us and we have merely passed this on as it has been passed on to us.

who passed the satanic verses saga to them? was it not acquintances of mohammed?

No, its like the lady likes the Christian idea of tithes and want you people to copy it?

The Qur’an and Bukhari Hadiths


Bukhari died around 870 A.D. (even later than three of the four sources listed.) Bukhari vol.6:385 (p.363) says that when Mohammed spoke the Star Sura, pagans as well as Muslims bowed. Abu Dawud vol.1:1401 p.369 says the same. Pagans were not said to bow for any of Mohammed’s other recitations, why would they be so agreeable to this Sura, especially since Bukhari and Abu Dawud do NOT say those pagans ever became Muslims!


Also, Sura 22:52 says, "Never did We send An apostle or a prophet Before thee, but, when he Framed a desire, Satan Threw some (vanity) Into his desire: but God Will cancel anything (vain) That Satan throws in, And God will confirm (And establish) His Signs;…"


Sura 17:73-75 says, "And their purpose was To tempt thee away From that which We Had revealed unto thee, To substitute in Our name Something quite different: (In that case), behold! They would certainly have Made thee (their) friend! And had We not Given thee strength, Thou wouldst nearly Have inclined to them A little. In that case We should Have made thee taste Double portion (of punishment) In this life, and an equal portion In death: and moreover Thou wouldst have found None to help thee against Us!"


Tabari and Ibn Sa’d wrote that Sura 17:73-75 was revealed about the time of the Satanic verses. Muslims even have a special term for the whisperings of Satan, roughly pronounced "wiswas".

ok, mohammed plagiarised this verse too?

whether hadiths or history, were their not islamic writers?

Mohammed's Excuse for Saying the Satanic Verses
In the following verses Mohammed, in order to save his reputation as a prophet, explains that Allah allows Satan to tempt all prophets with demonic verses so as to test weak believers.

Never did We send a messenger or a prophet before thee, but, when he framed a desire, Satan threw some (vanity) into his desire: but Allah will cancel anything (vain) that Satan throws in, and Allah will confirm (and establish) His Signs: for Allah is full of Knowledge and Wisdom:

That He may make the suggestions thrown in by Satan, but a trial for those in whose hearts is a disease and who are hardened of heart: verily the wrong-doers are in a schism far (from the Truth):

Qur'an 22:52-53

According to Al-Tabari
Al-Tabari was an early and prolific Islamic Historian who also recorded the Satanic verses incident.
Ibn Humayd—Salamah--Muhammad b. Ishaq—Yazid b. Ziyad al-Madani—Muhammad b. Kali al-Qurazi: When the Messenger of God saw how his tribe turned their backs on him and was grieved to see them shunning the message he had brought to them from God, he longed in his soul that something would come to him from God which would reconcile him with his tribe. With his love for his tribe and his eagerness for their welfare it would have delighted him if some of the difficulties which they made for him could have been smoothed out, and he debated with himself and fervently desired such an outcome. Then God revealed:
By the Star when it sets, your comrade does not err, nor is

he deceived; nor does he speak out of (his own) desire , .
and when he came to the words:

Have you thought upon al-Lat and al-'Uzza and Manat, the third, the other?
Satan cast on his tongue, because of his inner debates and what he desired to bring to his people, the words:

These are the high-flying cranes; verily their intercession is accepted with approval.
When Quraysh heard this, they rejoiced and were happy and delighted at the way in which he spoke of their gods, and they lis?tened to him, while the Muslims, having complete trust in their Prophet in respect of the messages which he brought from God, did not suspect him of error, illusion, or mistake. When he came to the prostration, having completed the surah, he prostrated himself and the Muslims did likewise, following their Prophet, trusting in the message which he had brought and following his example. Al-Tabari VI:108

(sc. reconciliation) to his people, put upon his tongue ‎‎'these are the exalted Gharaniq whose intercession is approved.' When Quraysh heard that, ‎they were delighted and greatly pleased at the way in which he spoke of their gods and they ‎listened to him; while the believers were holding that what their prophet brought them from their ‎Lord was true, not suspecting a mistake or a vain desire or a slip, and when he reached the ‎prostration ‎3 and the end of the Sura in which he prostrated himself the Muslims prostrated ‎themselves when their prophet prostrated confirming what he brought and obeying his command, ‎and the polytheists of Quraysh and others who were in the mosque prostrated when they heard ‎the mention of their gods, so that everyone in the mosque believer and unbeliever prostrated, ‎except al-Walid b. al-Mughira who was an old man who could not do so, so he took a handful of ‎dirt from the valley and bent over it. Then the people dispersed and Quraysh went out, delighted ‎at what had been said about their gods, saying, 'Muhammad has spoken of our gods in splendid ‎fashion. He alleged in what he read that they are the exalted Gharaniq whose intercession is ‎approved.'‎

The news reached the prophet's companions who were in Abyssinia, it being reported that ‎Quraysh had accepted Islam, so some men started to return while others remained behind. Then ‎Gabriel came to the apostle and said, 'What have you done, Muhammad? You have read to these ‎people something I did not bring you from God and you have said what He did not say to you. ‎The apostle was bitterly grieved and was greatly in fear of God. So God sent down (a revelation), ‎for He was merciful to him, comforting him and making light of the affair and telling him that ‎every prophet and apostle before him desired as he desired and wanted what he wanted and Satan ‎interjected something into his desires as he had on his tongue. So God annulled what Satan had ‎suggested and God established His verses i.e. you are just like the prophets and apostles. Then ‎God sent down: 'We have not sent a prophet or apostle before you but when he longed Satan cast ‎suggestions into his longing. But God will annul what Satan has suggested. Then God will ‎establish his verses, God being knowing and wise.' ‎Thus God relieved his prophet's grief, and ‎made him feel safe from his fears and annulled what Satan had suggested in the words used ‎above about their gods by his revelation 'Are yours the males and His the females? That were ‎indeed an unfair division' (i.e. most unjust); 'they are nothing but names which your fathers gave ‎them as far as the words 'to whom he pleases and accepts',‎‎ i.e. how can the intercession of their ‎gods avail with Him?‎
Ishaq:166

According to Ibn Ishaq
From Ibn Ishaq's book "The Life of Muhammad". Ibn Ishaq is the earliest known Islamic Historian.

Now the apostle was anxious for the welfare of his people, wishing to attract them as ‎far as he could. It has been mentioned that he longed for a way to attract them, and the method he ‎adopted is what Ibn Hamid told me that Salama said M. b. Ishaq told him from Yazid b. Ziyad of ‎Medina from M. b. Ka'b al-Qurazi: When the apostle saw that his people turned their backs on ‎him and he was pained by their estrangement from what he brought them from God he longed ‎that there should come to him from God a message that would reconcile his people to him. ‎Because of his love for his people and his anxiety over them it would delight him if the obstacle ‎that made his task so difficult could be removed; so that he meditated on the project and longed ‎for it and it was dear to him. Then God sent down 'By the star when it sets your comrade errs not ‎and is not deceived, he speaks not from his own desire,' and when he reached His words 'Have ‎you thought of al-Lat and al-'Uzza and Manat the third, the other',‎ Satan, when he was ‎meditating upon it, and desiring to bring it.

Ishaq:165

[size=16pt]Sources of the Missionary argument[/size]

The missionaries have two major sources:

(1) Ibn Sa'd
(2) Ibn Jarir al-Tabari




It is worthy to note that the alleged story was transmitted from al-Waqidi ( Muhammad Ibn Umar ) to Ibn Sa'd who was a known fabricator of events

Why do you want to be repeatitive? go through the opening arguments and see, as you rightly acknowledged in your post quoted above . . . . . . duh . . . .

is it the E.D.(risk management) that grant loans at first bank? Your topic is misleading, it says sanusi grants loans as first bank M.D. while you go ahead to write that he granted loans as E.D.(risk management) . . . . . bunch of liars