₦airaland Forum

Euphoria, you really can't get by without insults, can you? I just hope you don't embarras too many people along the way.

yemstar:
Nferyn did anybody ever tell you that you are soo STUBORN geez!!!, anyway i think it will take more than my little sayings for me to hammer through to you.

People IRL usually tell me I'm not stubborn at all. Maybe it's the impersonal nature of online conversation. I do enjoy discussing with theists online as they always seem to leave rationality behind when discussing matters of their faith. It's interesting to see cognitive dissonance at work. The same rationality that is applied continuously on mundane day to day matters all of a sudden is no longer applicable.

yemstar:
For now am going to rest my case but maybe later we could continue this if you and i are still on nairaland.

I would like that. I would really appreciate some more detail on that converted atheist you were mentioning.

yemstar:
Stay blessed _{[/sub]i know thats going to irritate you [sub]} seriously though take care.

It's a positive note, so I'm not irritated

@ Eurphoria
Why do you go and read a thread like I Am An Atheist if you're bored with the same old tired topic? Aren't there any less boring threads you can indulge yourself in?
Typical behaviour, if one cannot win a discussion on arguments, one should start insulting, success guaranteed.

Eurphoria:
same old faces in same old topic, gosh, don't you have a life?

Well, some people like to discuss fashion, sex, relationships, etc. Do they have a life?

Eurphoria:
Nferyn geez arent you like married or something with family? don't you get tired of arguing same points over and over again? puleeeeeeeas _hiss its so boring now so sos os sos sos sos os soos booooooorrrirrrrrring, same topic same arguements geezzzzzzzzzzz

I actually kind of like it. It can serve as a sociological study (although I need to formalise my sampling methods ): why do theists always come with the same superficial answers that answer nothing at all. Currently reading Breaking the Spell, religion as a Natural Phenomenon by Daniel Dennett. Finally some credible hypotheses as to why people hold on to religion in spite of all the contrary evidence.

yemstar:

I am yet to meet the first person that grew up in a non-theistic environment and became a theist.

Well you haven't met any but i have met alot and i am telling you that they are out there.

Really? people that did not grow up in an environment where theistic beliefs (such as Christianity, Judaism, Isalm, etc) are the cultural norm? I am yet to meet the first person born into a household where no parent believes in a deity, where the child became theist. If you could give me contact data of that person, I would be very interested to her his/her story

yemstar:

Why do people always have to start talking about feeling incomplete, lost, inadequate, without purpose, etc in relation to belief. I don't believe in a deity and I feel none of these things. Maybe it's not what you're trying to say, but this gentle feeling of moral superiority I encounter in theists is rather irritating.

People don't always start with these i am giving you examples and your life to you at this point in time might feel adequate at least that is what you say.

Actually, nobody will feel fully adequate, even the most happy and fulfilled person will have moments of inadequacy. perfection isn't human.

yemstar:
But there are people out from these situations i mentioned into believing in God. I didn't say it is in all circumstances.

I guess they had some lingering belief in the possibility of the existence of God to start with and circumstances made that belief come out explicitely

yemstar:
I can see that you are looking for some arguement because i never mentioned anything about moral superiority neither did i imply such,

No I'm not. I'm a little touchy because of too many bad experiences, I guess. Anyway, sorry for saying that you might have implied such a thing.

yemstar:
there is much to be said about that satisfaction of having God in your life that doesn't make me morally superior to you or to anybody at all and christians in the house know this.

I don't understand what you're getting at

yemstar:
Acknowledge the Lord's presence if you could believe in all the hocus pocus of the world, and the scientist that come up with new theories everyday why do you have to doubt.

Sorry?

yemstar:
At least to me he is detectable in the fact that when i am ill i rarely go to the doctors he heals me, when i am upset or a lot of things are weighing me down he intervenes you can call it whatever you want but to me it is the presence of the Lord in my life.

Easily explainable as the power of suggestion (aka placebo effect) and the workings of human memory

yemstar:

Strengt in your faith is not what's required, but rather strength in the arguments and/or evidence for said God.

See now that is where you are wrong, strength in my faith is required because if i were stronger i will be able to give you more proof and satisfactory answers to your doubts. I am not going to spend time arguing or trying to give you evidence that there is a God i just have to tell you about him and his God works, something you don't have to see to believe in and i am working at it.

But that evidence would still need to be strong enough to convince a skeptic. The strength of faith is not what counts, but rather the strength of the evidence.

yemstar:
As your life has a purpose so does mine and mine is to learn as much more about the lord as possible and share of his wonderful goodness and mercies to as many unbelievers are out there, and it is up to you to open your mind and heart to him. Nobody can help you do that but you.

I'm open to all explanations of reality that pass the test of scientific inquiry. If strong enough evidence of God's existence surfaces, I will believe. One falsifiable act that cannot possibly be ascribed to anything else but God's intervention will suffice.

Maybe the inquiring minds can have a look at this. Explains quite extensively why the flood account is physically impossible.

Bobbyaf,

In that case, I'm basically spiritual (most of the time), but without a belief in God. I just wonder what sets a spiritual person apart from a good, selfless person?

yemstar:
God does exist in our physical world you just have to be ready to accept that he does exist, people that never believed in God with the same reasons as Kag here change everyday. Like i said if i was a stronger christian i will expantiate more.

I am yet to meet the first person that grew up in a non-theistic environment and became a theist.

yemstar:
I don't know where to start, there are people out there that feel incomplete and inadequate everyday of their lives, and people who go through life with no pupose whatsoever.

Why do people always have to start talking about feeling incomplete, lost, inadequate, without purpose, etc in relation to belief. I don't believe in a deity and I feel none of these things. Maybe it's not what you're trying to say, but this gentle feeling of moral superiority I encounter in theists is rather irritating.

yemstar:
People like that have a reason to believe in God even though as you say it doesn't manifest itself in the physical world it is there lurking behind us everyday and waiting for us to reach out to him. He is there we just have to acknowledge him.

Acknowledge what exactly? An imaginary being? If it weren't imaginary it would be somehow detectable, wouldn't it?

yemstar:
If there are any stronger christians in the house abeg help me out i know i am not doing a very good job.

Strengt in your faith is not what's required, but rather strength in the arguments and/or evidence for said God.

yemstar:
So Kag where do you go from here, are you at least trying to find your faith or you've completly given up. I am not the strong christian i would like to be if not i could preach to you all day but when i get there i'll let u know.

But where i am now my belief is past physical i feel it within me and it makes me yearn for more, i hope pretty soon you will come to know the satisfaction of being in the arms of God. Because i know God doesn't let his children stray too far, but till then stay blessed.

yemstar,

This only makes sense if you already believe in something like God. If you don't believe in God to start with, it doesn't make sense at all. What reason can someone have to believe in something that doesn't manifest itself at all in this physical world?

Bobbyaf:
You never had an interest in spritual things before?

I wouldn't know. I have no idea what spiritual things are.

Bobbyaf:
Have you ever felt sympathetic towards someone who is suffering?

Obviously. Isn't that the essence of being human?

Bobbyaf:
Once you show concern for good principle then thats apart of being spiritual.

How so? I don't understand

Definitely not religious and I really wouldn't know what spiritual means. Haven't yet met a spirit and don't know how to recognise one.

[quote author=naija_diva link=topic=19394.msg546398#msg546398 date=1154715675]@KAG

do you believe in breath, air, oxygen, and i'm not talking about the wind that you feel. they're not tangible but we know that they exist.[/quote]All of these can easily be measured. We, as humans, may have limited senses, but that doesn't mean there aren't any indirect means of measurement.
Supernatural things on the other hand tend to escape measurement.

Seun:
Because it means they don't really believe in what has made them successful. And that's sad.

Oh, they can very well believe in what made them successful. I for one (not that I want to compare me with any of them) believe capitalism to be the most efficient way of creating economic growth and enabling innovation. The question is what the consequence of that success is. If the consequence is people dying of starvation because they are the losers of the capitalist game, then I would definitely go for less efficiency in favor of some more redistribution. Free markets can flourish in a mixed economic setup.
Another disadvantage of capitalism is that it - quite understandable - wants to move as much of the cost side of doing business to externalities as possible. Anything that does not have a direct market value is in essence worthless: clean air, open space, no noise pollution, people that mainly operate outside of the markets (a majority of the earth's population). When there is no strong democratic counter-weight to these markets, those externalities fall squarely on the heads of the powerless, you just need to think of what's happening in the Niger delta.

Seun:
Instead of being proud of their hard-won achievements, they act as if they've been a liability to the world. Whereas they are assets. In the process of capitalistic competition, they have delivered superior products to us.

I don't think that's how they think. There are definite advantages of a capitalist set-up, especially for these that know how to play the game. It's a sign of maturity when those same people acknowledge the negative consequences of the system that made them what they are.

Seun:
I'm a capitalist to the core. Successful businessmen with socialist ideas disgust me.

Why?

Finally got a decent phone again. Maybe somebody knows how to get the phonelink working from my palm Tungsten T3, so that I can Use my Palm to SMS. Would be greatly appreciated

Has anyone here considered what the real face and backing of Hezbollah are when, after these weeks of pounding them, they still manage to fire more than hunderd rockets a day. There are many regular armies (among them the lebanese army) that cannot muster that kind of firepower. Hezbollah is but a proxy for Iran that is abusing Lebanon for their ultimate aim of driving all the Jews into the sea.