They didn't lie. The number of views on the pastor chris thread is now 6262. They misunderstood the other stats (forum stats) but I have no problem with that!

Ohh i get it now. lol, at least they referred people to NL. That's most inportant!!

Seun:

It is just not fair on other companies that churches don't have to pay tax despite making so much profits. I support this.

I think companies owned by churches pay tax, it's just the church that doesn't. The companies also have to go thru the incorporation, or whatever, process.

mrmayor:

Donnie
I have no real problem with religious organizations spending their hard earned money as they please.

Hard Earned offerings, tithes and donations aren't hard earned at all. of course, some pastors work hard forcing or manipulating members to contribute, but whichever way church money isn't hard earned. It's money people give to God.

mrmayor:

Donnie
The queston still remains who owns Christ Embassy,business and other assets? Pastor Chris or Church members. If Pastor Chris dies who inherits the church and business?
I'm just curious,make u no vex

Probably his children, or any other person he wills them to. I believe Christ Embassy is a one-man church i.e. he is the sole founder.

I don't agree that church-owned airlines would be safer, rather, I believe that they may be riskier. My experience with church businesses - i attended a church-owned school - is that they often play down on quality of service and other important things because they believe customers/members would stick to them. People never want to criticize anything connected with God, so they just overlook their deficiencies.

raldsfield:

If the church has so much money, billions of =N= and don't know what to do with it, the can build hospitals like the white guys did when the came here many years ago and give free medical service, if this happens infact I will start paying my tithe. For now I will give it directly to those that God inspires me to help.

Very true. The whole essence of collecting money in church is to take care of full time workers and the needy. I believe that churches should by now have free schools and hospitals in the North and some of the remote southern villages. How else do they want to evangelize the North anyway? That would have much more effect than the very expensive crusades they hold all the time.

I was so put off by this abuse of church money that I almost stopped giving offerings some time ago. Right now, I pay tithes to the church, but when I start working and earning money I can't imagine that I would put my hard-earned money in the churches I see in Nigeria now. I'd rather use it to help orphans.

raldsfield:

The level of corruption and evil happening in Nigeria, simply tells you that the pastors are not doing a good job, the are not speaking up. They should leave business for businessmen and politics for politicans. Jesus, did not do any of those. People have lost the sense of value and the church will not help them find it.

The pastors are not just not speaking up, they're accepting stolen money and indirectly encouraging corruption. They've made money look like a sign of God's approval, so that any church that doesn't have much money seems to be doing things wrong.

I believe pastors should face the responsibility of shepherding God's flock and leave money matters to appointed officials. The problem we have in Pentecostal circles is anyone can claim God told him something and ppl accept it since they weren't there. This is even worse with pastors, since they actually are supposed to be representing God.

*yawns*

@GL,
when i say hard earned money,i mean its not easy making me part with 10% of my dosh,with all the prophetsing.speakin in tongues and with violent prayers,its definitely hard earned.Man must chop.

mrmayor,

sorry, i misunderstood u. i thought u meant the churches earn the money members donate.

All this fuss because Pastor Chris is venturing into business. If it were any other bloke, expectantly, there wouldnt be this much noise.

U just dont want the man to succeed sha, u people, u dont want him to plan for his future and his children abi. Is it Church money that his children and grandchildren will inherit.

You think church should be taxed, well go tell the man who repesents u in the HOUSE up there, if the govt passes it into law, as xtians we are law abiding, we'd pay.

Besides Chris has never been a pauper all his life, he comes from a rich family so all the noise about him milking people in the name of God is senseless talk. He is doing God's work and God is blessing him, shikena. U got a problem with that, go drown urself.

and its not like he's gon be there in some office runing one airline or overseeing and maintaining good hygiene in some restaurant, its just a matter of putting his money in an investment and watching it grow.

The God we serve taught us to work hard to feed our family and any one who does not do that is worse than an infidel(cant quote the scripture now).

many off u people just open ur open and drool blatant non-sense. Its because u can afford to, like they say its a free world aint it, but they just wouldnt free the guy. Whether if it was their father that God was useing and blessing, they would make noise. see their big head sef

GL thanks for your comments on tax, unlike quite a number of people have been posting in this thread churches do not pay tax on charitable concerns only, once the church goes into a commercial venture, it is obliged to pay tax on the profits of the income of that venture , it is irrelevant that the venture was entered into by an unincorporated arm of the church. If the church decides to go into business through an incorporated company owned by the church it will still be of the same effect it will probably make it even easier for the tax officials to trace.

So, before you take up a tax crusade against the churches or anybody else for that matter, endeavour to be sure of your facts. Churches are expected to pay tax on their commercial concerns whether they actually do is another matter and anybody refuting the fact that they do will need to provide sufficient proof.

This just goes to show the sad fact of the Nigerian mentality. Most times, people just go on condemning something without making sure of the facts. People if you are going to make a case for or against something, make sure your supporting argument is solid!

@killerweed,
no be by force now. its a free world. if you can't take the angle the discussion is taking, you stop posting.Just take a look at your post again and tell me what example you've shown to the " the church, pastors and Christian HATERS"

Again, this forum was started by Seun and he is running it the way he likes best and if you dont like it, the best you can do is to ignore the forum or start yours and invite us to become members.

A forum is such that pple are allowed to express their opinion for or against any topic and if you feel the views are one-sided, ther'es really nothing you can do about it because it remains the member's views. At best you can attack or conquer theirs with your own strong arguments. Seun is the forum moderator and also a member and has the right to air his own views too like any other member. We must not cajole or coarse someone to our own way of life. we must not all act or think alike and that is what makes us human beings- The ability to use our free will and make our individual decisions.

For the "believers" in pastors, we must learn to tolerate other ppl's views. forget all this "touch not mine annointed" stuff, it doesn't have any meaning to most people. Any charllatan can be annointed by whoever except God. We should not use the name of God to intimidate pple into submission and fear. In all my years of working and doing business, I have come across so many pastors who I have done business with and 96% of them are cheats, liars and no more than Devil incarnates. Some have even attempted to dupe me. Is it just about me? No. some of my friends have similar stories to tell. I am not just talking about all these "Batcher" pastors, I mean well established pastors that lead large congregations. But that does not make me against them after all my elder brother is one of them but I treat him strictly as a Brother and fellow human being and not as a Pastor and that same way I treat other pastors especially when it comes to business. We should take it easy the way we "worship" these pastors. Not all of them practice what they preach.

May God have MERCY on all of Us!

I think the holier-than-thou, Pastor-worshipping Christians are actually the ones HATING and throwing around curse words. You are believers indeed! By their fruits we shall know them. Hypocrites.

I don't think that pastor chris floats airline, Tv station & fast food outlet should be used to judge him. I don't admire pastor chris due to my personal reason, but if he floats all these as mentioned above, it will be good for our dear country. What is he deposit the so called 10% in a foreign account. What will we do? He has decided to use it to make life better for our people, then we start to complain.
If he floats an airliner, if i can afford it i board it, if not other airliners are there. Many television stations abound, most I watch pastor chris own. for your information I don't even watch his broadcast.
Do you know how many jobs that will be created, if it is true that he will float these firms. Let us look at what will be the gain if he utilizes the 10% rather that the collections of 10%.
After all if all other pastor utilize their own 10% to set up something like this, life will be a bit better for us.
Thank you

skidoc,thanks for helping send killerweed home,but what do you really think the solution is?

Be careful what you think people because it is bad thought that is affecting Africa till today!
The question you should ask is, if there is any money missing from the central bank or the national treasury that is traceable to pastor chris account. I have never met him but I am soo proud of his result in the past few year. I am part of big program planned in europe but the concept and the leadership demonstration of the pastor is something every african should be proud of.
I know very closely at least two tv station owners in europe, but, you can not compare it with what this guy runs from Africa.
He has worked on Himself, let's work on ourselfs. He is also working on people and it's showing and now he is affectng the society for good.
Is he the only pastor collecting 10%, how come he making positive impact with his. look at Benson Idahosa, the first christain University people talked about him but today record how many university are being our by private individuals and religious organisation.
You complain that the goverments are not doing anything, now leaders like Chris is doing things,yet, you are a critics. How else do you want African to come out of obscurity.
Think, think, think. There is probably something you can do with the little you are collecting too so that it will not count again you,
Most of what we abuse our pastors in africa for are what pastor's does with easy in the western world, wake up
This man has done everything he does excellently, let's give him a chance to do this, at least, I can fly his excellent airlines (if it will be excellent) to destinations in nigeria without be scared and at least eat his foods when I am in town without using flagil or agbo.
Go and look at Covenat University being ran by Oyedepo, people withdrawing their children from UK to attend the school somewhere in lagos.
Let great leader do it better than it's being done, then we all can follow them do great works to librate Africa.

People I'm wondering what happens to the profits from this business venture from Christ Embassy after tax,that assuming they would actually pay tax.How is the  dividends paid out to church members or to pastor Chris and family.

@Killerweed. who exactly owns these Made In Nigeria Churches?The profits from the 10% collections who owns them.

@ Judge not my Pastors gang,the question remains if you know that your tithe is being used for terrorism,human trafficking,drug smuggling would you still pay out your 10%.

The lack of accountability is what set Africa back,maybe we should all pay our tax and not ask how its been spent and let God judge

Interesting thread,
I think the important questions are
1) are these proposed businesses personal or church based
2) in the event of losses or profits who bears the brunt or takes a cut
3) what is the source of revenue for these ventures

Until these questions are answered, commenting on the why, how, what or when is futile.

Over and Out

Let me state here that a full time Pastor is a Man that was called by God to Work for him for the rest of his life. He must have left every thing like Peter and follow the master "Jesus"
The work of the master is for everyone but but the Pastors that are full time pastors are to work for God and God only who will reward then. However, a Business Man in this contest is a man who is involved in "Economic Business"

Genial, you posted your reply from Europe and we are talking about what we are seeing and passing through in Nigeria. A country where good % of people are poor. May I say it categorically that people are dying of hunger in the streets where these churches are located (not Christ Embassy per say).

It's a practice of Christian bodies to help  oorganizationsthat are comming up. May I mention here Papa Idahosa as an Example.

Let PPentecostalmerchandising stop and Pastors and Xtians should begin to prepare for the comming of the Lord.

Genial, how many people do you think will make heaven in these churches where the truth is not being preached but what will suit the hearers?
May the Lord have mercy upon us

Ha ha ha ha!

see how comfused they all are.

Who does christ embassy belong to?

who gets the money? where does he get his money from?


ha ha ha ha and again, ha!

If it were one man's church, it wouldnt influence the world like it is doing today.

It is the church of Jesus Christ. Who else should be in control of the world's riches if not the church of Jesus Christ)?

A time will come and it isnt far away when nothing will happen in Nigeria unless the church allows it.

you guys havent seen anything yet!

you had better invest your life in what counts; giving meaning to the lives of others.

Ha ha ha ha (continues laughing)

Donnie,
yes yes yes,its the church of Jesus Christ that what every church claims,we as Nigerians love to live in denial!
Please answer my questions.
If Mr Oyekilome dies who inherits the business empire(sic)church?
How is the dividends from the business (sic again) church shared?
I don't suppose Mr Oyekilome can be fired from he business just like Mr Bill Gates can be fired by the Shareholders of Microsoft

Keep praying very soon the Western World would ask you for permission before they do anything

enjoy

1.Thought about responding to this or not,especially in the light of the earlier posts.
I think that to a very large extent there are people who simply antagonise the Christian faith because it gurantees a celebrity status on Nairaland.The admin' is a confessed atheist and it is very 'cool' to be anti Christian.

2.In respect to 1 above, there is no initiative that will be taken by the Christain faith that will not be subject to the kinds of predetermined scrutiny that is seen in some of the posts we have seen so far.Nothing will be said of the value being created or the many contributiuons that are made. I have also read how people criticized covenant university for providing education and collecting school fees.

Such people expect that the Christian faith and those who practice it should be at the back of everything;beggers and rejects of the society-not people taking any initiative to better their society.

Did they not know that some of the best institutions(including Harvard) in the world were founded by christians in the pursuit of knowledge and such institutions today are used to pursue thoughts and ideas opposite to that which their founders believed in?

why are we so concerned about the money of the church? The only people who should complain are those giving it and if they are not complaining, what is your business with how it is spent? If someone spends his money gulping a chemical that will delude him and eventually kill him, it is 'cool' and it is his right but the church must come to people like you and explain how it is spending her money. How warp can that logic be!

What bothers you about an institution to which you do not belong and how they spend the money that you do not give them?As I said earlier,dont you think that it is not your business?

For those of you who brag about staring your own church, why not just go right ahead and start it?Perhaps you can humour us with your exploits too and then spend all that 'famed money' you so know that those pastors have.

I will not get to a point where words will be excahnged in abuse to anyone but I will challenge all of you-especailly those anti faith celebrity on this forum- to be sober for a moment, which may be hard considering the euphoria of the moment- and think through your argument.It is none of your business!

Haba!

@gidig
Let me get this straight.A man wakes up one morning with a revelation from God.
Mr gidig starts his own church i.e gidig Nigeria ministries,collects 10% of all his customers earnings every month,uses the money to start his own airline,has his own university and charges the very same customers half a million naira for a session which by the way 97% of his congregation
can't afford.
You actually expect people to clap for you rather than ask WHAT THE FU-CK IS GOING ON

Please how much will it cost to start an airline business,

More to that I don't think it is a very lucrative business, Big airline business in Nigeria are going down, Please advise pastor before
he makes a purchase of a plane, It is high risk and we don't competent staff in the airline industry.

There are a lot of unemployed doctors, building a hospital, a vocational school, that can train people in
skills and a soft loan service to support the trained people could be a better Idea that could transform Nigeria, if that is the intention of starting the business.

Someone mentioned if money in CBN is missing, don't even go there. If CBN is empty, we won't be told.

I used to have that don't-question-pastors attitude before. Now, I realize that we are to do so. We are not to insult, harm or slander them, but we are to scrutinize their actions, and of course their sermons. We take that "touch not my annointed" to another level. When God says we should "test the spirits", how else are we to go about it. We are to scrutinize our pastors' actions and see if they tally with the bible. Contrary to what many pastors would have us believe (many who don't say this directly imply it by their actions), the bible is our only standard. God cannot give new instructions to the pastor that aren't backed by the bible. All christians are as important to God, pastor or congregation member.

I'm not saying pastor Chris shouldn't have as many businesses as possible. However, God has given guidelines concerning how tithes and offerings should be spent. Most nigerian churches do not follow these guidelines. Members have a right to check if their pastor, and church, is following the bible. There's this misconception now though, that when u challenge anything a pastor does, u've sinned. That's what has enabled this non-compliance with biblical guidelines to persist.

Has anyone bothered to find out how they intend to raise money for the projectsIf they are indeed carrying it our)? That does not interests the people I addressede in my early post.The key thing is the tithe and oferings collected in churches.I do not attend Christ Embassy and I may not entirely agree with evrything they do there but I find it very intertesting than the people who have given themselves the right to be the judge do not even believe or actiuvely practise the concepts of Christianity.

Nothing else in the church inteests them except the money part and how it is being spent. They have an idea how the money should be spent.As I siad earlier,if it that easy to make the money and 'con' people into giving their money to you,why not just start your own church instead of the nine to five jobs you keep. you should manage to get thousands and thousands of gullible Nigerians (you think) to give their income to you!

since we on this, may I also add that what is being done is a conceopt that will come to stay. The church is not building that people gather in.It is people called out as example (light) in darkness. The original word used by Christ when he said I will build my church was not a religious group but the same word where 'senate' is suggested.They will give the mandate to life.

Since you want something to gripe about, RCCG has the majority stake in TITV.I think you miised that.start another thread on that please! And if you think it is stopping, you are wrong! It will continue and people within that group will come out and do exploits, such that it will offend your misconception of the church as poor religious people.

Joseph was a life saver and prime minister tpo Egypt;Daniel was also a prime minster.These are childern of God with clear minds and directyion.Christiainity is not acall to hide from the affiars of life-It is acll to show people how life should be lived.Why? the Goid we serve created life itself.

Will you like to know about the eternal life?

@gidig, donnie, Killerweed and Other "do not touch" my anointed guys. I want to ask u this.
Do u guys think that tax evasion, ripping off the poor and shaddy use of funds are nobody's business? The fact that so many of the so-called pastors are thieves is nobody's business and they are impoverishing their brainwashed followers and taking money from them to enrich themselves is irrelevant too? What is wrong with public auditing and accountability of church funds even though u r exploiting the churchgoers of 10% of their income.

If u really think they are nobodys business, what do you think about Homosexuals and what two consenting adults do in their room. Is it anybodys business? Should people be borthered by what Gays do with their lives?

Sage,
well said

Thanx

gidig,

i attend RCCG but I don't know much about TITV. I know that they spend money on some things I believe aren't proper, but when a pastor says "God says", everyone keeps quiet. All I'm saying is that that is a wrong doctrine; that we should accept everything a pastor says. We have equal rights as children of God as pastors - God has no grandchildren, we're all His children. The bible encourages us to test the spirit behind whatever our pastors do, this doesn't mean we're disrespecting them. There are a whole lot of issues I feel strongly about in the RCCG.


It's not like we're attacking Pastor Chris or any other pastor. The issue here isn't so much how or where he plans to raise the money to fund these businesses. The issue is what role did God plan for money to play in the church, and is money being used in that direction or not? Did God really plan for churches to own businesses, and for pastors to be in charge of (or oversee) money? Is church money being used right?


When we start respecting or fearing men (pastors) to the extent that we can go against the will of God, then we have a big problem. This is what we're up against here. We're saying Nigerian christians need to start taking care they don't do this.

GL,
We are all children of God,God has no grandchildren
I don laff tire very funny girl
thanx

Emmie 4j My name is kriss and i quite agree with you.I may not be a strong born again like you but i know that the bible says "torch not my anointed and do my prophets no harm".It 's not only by physically heating a prophet that you have caused harm. We shld please leave jugement for God.

And for all you analyst out there.If this claim about Pastor kriss is True and He advertises for Job opportunities tomorrow.You that will be bold enough not to apply should be the first to condem.

why are we all so naive